To the OP and signus, No swg wasnt all that great to begin with, (imho it is better now than it was years ago ''ducks from shoes being thrown''). The thing about SWG was that it was back then ''new'', the only swg mmo around, and was one of the very few options for any sci-fi type mmo I went to swg when earth and beyond got shut down, every other thing in the old swg was bugged or broke, and just seemed impossible to fix, restructuring the game mechanics from the ground up is probably the only viable option soe/Lu had to try and fix it, it was like an old shoe for many of us it was broke and tattered, but we were so used to it being that way that it felt comfortable, (my guild went from hundreds at launch and dwindled to very few even before the cu) And when we got a new pair of shoes they were uncomfortable and gave us blisters due to the severity of it being different and we chose to walk barefoot instead of trying to break in the new shoes and establish a comfort level with them as we felt with our old worn comfy shoes.
Myself think, if the game was made like it is now, to start with, it woul have alot more players. Its the whole change that ruined it, even for me. i was used to 1 game, then CU came and changed everything, had to start over to learn it all, then NGE came, man i dont wanna start over again, and learn a new game for the 3rd time. Plus i dont like SOE didnt do a public vote on if it should be planted or not, they judt rushed it in.
They even stated taht CU was here to stay..... yea right....
that another reason why SWG dont have more players i think... u cant trust SOE anymore. to start with SOE was my fav devs.. not anymore
Towards the end of the Pre-CU, around Publish 13-14 ish it was actually running very well. It was in the state it needed to be to accept the CURB, which would have fixed the broken profession abilities and brought some rationality to buffs, armor, etc, but not changed the whole world like the CU.
Likewise, the CU was actually just starting to get good when they yanked it for the NGE, they were revamping professions that desperately needed it and making them better. They were actually adding stuff to the game that needed to be there (multipassenger vehicles), and the TOOW expansion in it's original state was hella good and VERY hard, actually requiring thought to get through.
Of course the NGE game won't ever get there because it can't. It's at it's heart a stripped down button mash that monkeys could play but probably wouldn't because it'd bore them to death.
For me, it was the greatest game ever, bugs and all. What the game offered and the potential it had far outweighed the problems. The player based economy , the complex crafting/resource system, and the unique professions (combatant and non-combatant) made the game an immersive world for many. If $OE had focused its resources and talent on game fixes and content instead of the next money grabbing expansion and unwanted, extreme revamps, the game would be doing far better than it is now or if it was released in the condition it currently is in as a WoW knock-off.
As I see it, SWG always had tremendous potential, if the developers would ever get their heads out of their asses and see it for themselves.
The problem is that they were awash in minutia nearly all the time. The damn thing was released about six months too early, and it never recovered from that single decision, which lead to the stupidity of the CU and the absolute idiocy of the NGE.
In beta I saw the potential. It excited me tremendously. The combat system was flawed, but it had tremendous potential subtlety and realism to it. The idea of the three pools was a great one. As a former soldier, I relished the potential of a combined arms approach to combat...one where your preparation for a battle was nearly as important as your execution of it. Where seeking a tactical advantage could pay off handsomely for those with the intelligence to make that tactical advantage theirs.
The economy...oh, the economy! The interdependence! The fact that carebear social professions had profound effects on combat, and that it might teach players about the interdependent nature of military organization and operations. The fact that your gear was made by other players, and logisitics was given the importance in the overall scheme of things that it deserves.
Frankly, I saw this as a great educational tool that would teach with very little effort.
The problem, or course, is that those in charge are all dark-side inclined; seeking the easy way instead of the way of patience. Let's just change the whole damn thing and hope for an entirely new audience that will be bigger than the one we have now!
Yeah, that worked really well, didn't it, sooper genious SOE asshats in suits?
CH, Jedi, Commando, Smuggler, BH, Scout, Doctor, Chef, BE...yeah, lots of SWG time invested.
I loved SWG, but in all honesty the game was not all that great. People are all over the crafting system, but the mass-majority of gamers, don't want to sit for hours on end crafting. Both PvP and PvE were half-assed. It had potential, but SoE never got anything to work. Battlegrounds on Radiant, where I played, never worked. Jedi ranking system never got put up. PvP was just randomly going from major city to major city looking for overts. PvE was killing Krayts, DW Bunker, and the Corvettes. Compared to Everquest at its time, it was good. But if Pre-CU SWG came out on today's market, it would go nowhere. With recent games, my own personal standards for MMO's has risen. SWG doesn't meet it.
A copy & paste of my initial reply of this thread. It still stands, flaws and all of Pre-CU SWG. You'll find alot of fans of Pre-CU/NGE SWG will readily acknowledge the faults the game had. The bugs were numerous, some professions were borked, the GCW was not enticing enough, etc. However, if you exclude the CU & NGE nonsense and kept the Pre-CU system, compare it to the MMO competition out there. 1) Very tight knit player community. Due to how the template / skillpoint system worked and having 1 character per acct on a server (except Jedi unlocks), everybody needed everyone. Combat players, Crafters, Entertainers... each needed the other at one point or another. Not to mention that grouping was so casually made, it was strange NOT to be in a group. Alot of MMOs these days are very solo-centric. Worse yet, groups last very shortly and disband after the accomplishment of a task. Usually not even saying "Bye!" to each other. 2) True player run economy. Everyone contributed to the game economy. The game was not loot-centric like so many MMORPGs these days. Alot of current MMORPGers cannot even fathom the fact that there were MMOs where items decayed and broke for good, and crafted equipment was readily affordable yet still good. Crafted equipment was essentially king. The demand was high yet the prices were competetive. Players were always searching for the best buy for their credits. 3) Skillpoint / Template System: IMO, one of the most crucial aspects of the Pre-CU/NGE system. THIS is what seperated SWG from alot of MMOs, and would have kept it unique in today's selection of MMOs. This was no lame, tired, overused Class + Level System with very little differentiation between players in each class. No, this sytem gave the player control as to what skills and how good the skills were with that character. It was up to the player to devise a "Template" by expending skillpoints for skillboxes as the toon accumulated XPs. There were players that followed "Flavor of the Month" (FOTM) templates, yet there were those that made very unique templates. It was all up to your own tastes and preferred playstyle. Not to mention the wide array of Professions to choose from. When this went away completely with the advent of the NGE, it was the single largest factor why I left SWG. In the current crop of MMOs, no other MMO (unless I'm missing 1) has this style of gameplay. 4) All gameplay aspects were viable for devoting alot of time into. Combat, Crafting, Entertainers, etc. A great example is the truly oustanding crafting system. It is a big game in itself to produce competetive products. There were also many players in the Pre-CU days that were completely devoted to crafting. They enjoyed the crafting and merchant experience SWG offered, and never really bothered to pick up a blaster for fighting. Lastly, there were many players completely devoted to the social aspect of Entertainers. Didn't care for crafting or combat, but they enjoyed the social game of it. EVERYONE went to a Cantina at one point or another to visit the Entertainers. ------------------- To me, alot of MMOs do a few of the above points well in their own ways, but not all the points. Pre-CU/NGE SWG offered all these aspects, alongside the game's obvious flaws. I've said this before in other threads: Where would SWG be if it kept the Pre-CU system, squashed the bugs, tweak the professions, and SOE continue producing expansion packs for it, especially since the 3 years after 2005? Where would the game be if it got the much needed polish it required? Show me another MMO that had (better yet, HAS) the depth of gameplay in other areas of the game other than combat, a true player run economy, outstanding freedom in character development / build, and a tight-knit player community that regularly worked, dealed, and grouped together. Even SWG itself can no longer do this these days.
5) both space and ground based gameplay. with entroduction of JtL SWG was finally complete as far as lore and promises go. no other MMO I know has both space and ground...
It had bugs and lag and everything else that could be a pain but because it limited people to one character, a true community formed where people needed other players and no elites formed where they had all of the top tier stuff. This was what made it special.
As for Jedi being a starting class. A jedi used to be what a Jedi should be, something that made everyone stop what they were doing and go look. Something rare.
If they rolled back the servers today I would re-activate my account tonight. No other game has come close to offering what SWG did.
I already posted my 'Yes' on this thread, but I just feel compelled to come back and say that I miss SWG-That-Was.
Due to various things in life, I was never able to really dedicate myself to the game. I played for a while, got pulled away, played some more, pulled away again, came back and had the CU hit me in the face. Left the game due to that... came back, once or twice more, I can't recall now, and then came back again for what felt like 'for good this time' only to have the NGE hit 2 months later.
I tried to stay around after that. I had to create a new character for the NGE, because I was not about to respec my beloved CH. But the loss of my CH and the horrible combat that I just couldn't deal with eventually drove the final nail in the coffin for me.
I still miss my CH so much, and I had also always wanted to play a trader in a game where it truly mattered, and wasn't just a 'side job' for my 'adventurer'.
SWG felt 'epic' to me, even if I was more 'Aunt Beru' than 'Princess Leia'. I was always happy with that. Nothing else has even come close to that epic feeling, though I continue to hope, though the hoping has become quite painful.
And I'm sad now, dangit. Must load up a game and find something to kill very messily while dreaming it's LucasArts/SOE.
When you bought SWG was it everything they said it was gonna be, was it everything you expected it to be? If you could go back in time, knowing what you know now, would you even buy the game? Seriously. I might, but then again I might not.
During the first month or so, SWG was exactly what I imagined the Star Wars universe to be like. I would form up hunting parties with my guild and head out to Dathmir to hunt rancors. The greatest time I had playing SWG was during the first 2 months when 20 players would head out (with entertainers in tow) and hunt rancors. The ranger camps added to the entire feel of Star Wars. Player cities were also amazing, with some cities so advanced that you never had to go to one of the game's capital cities ever. I loved the community found in a well run player city, with real city design and an entertainer afk in a cantina to help you forget your troubles... SWG was a great game for 2 months.
Then I was introduced to doctor buffs. This is IMO what destroyed this game for me. The game lost all it's SW feel once I could doctor buff up and go kill Nightsister Elders and Krayt Dragons solo. The Star Wars universe was not designed to enjoy anything solo. The first time I soloed a Krayt dragon was like the end for me. I decided to abandon the over-powered doctor buffs when doing missions, but something changed in me once I soloed the BIG target. I could never get that innocence back that I had before getting doctor buffs.
Don't get me wrong - doctor buffs were needed to even equip most armor back then and was absolutely essential for PVP, I just think certain resource stats needed to be capped. This applies to armor and weapons too... you always knew who made the best stuff and always shopped there.
I would re-purchase the game again if there was a carte blanche without doctor buffs. I can handle the entertainer buffs it was just the crazy over-powered doctor buffs that ruined it for me.
in short ..SWG PRE CU for me best MMO ever..tho i missed UO...
-----MY-TERMS-OF-USE-------------------------------------------------- $OE - eternal enemy of online gaming -We finally WON !!!! 2011 $OE accepted that they have been fired 2005 by the playerbase and closed down ridiculous NGE !!
"There was suppression of speech and all kinds of things between disturbing and fascistic." Raph Koster (parted $OE)
SWG was the greatest chat room created to-date. As a game, it was one of the more horribly implemented piles of garbiage I've had the pleasure of uninstalling.
Had the game not been 'taken' I doubt few would bother discussing it today.
Ico Oh, cruel fate, to be thusly boned. Ask not for whom the bone bones. It bones for thee.
SWG was the greatest chat room created to-date. As a game, it was one of the more horribly implemented piles of garbiage I've had the pleasure of uninstalling. Had the game not been 'taken' I doubt few would bother discussing it today.
What? You had problems with players talking and interacting with each other in the old SWG more than almost all current MMOs today? In a day and age of MMOs where people barely form up for groups? And if they do, greetings are the extent of communication. When the short-term task is done, the group disintegrates with barely even a goodbye from any members? MMOs where players don't really need each other for anything? Might as well be single-player console RPGs.
The game had massive problems in the Pre-CU/NGE days. Not even the most hardcore fan of that era cannot deny that. But the game gave far more possiblities and avenues of gameplay to go down than most MMOs these days.
"I have only two out of my company and 20 out of some other company. We need support, but it is almost suicide to try to get it here as we are swept by machine gun fire and a constant barrage is on us. I have no one on my left and only a few on my right. I will hold." (First Lieutenant Clifton B. Cates, US Marine Corps, Soissons, 19 July 1918)
SWG was the greatest chat room created to-date. As a game, it was one of the more horribly implemented piles of garbage I've had the pleasure of uninstalling. Had the game not been 'taken' I doubt few would bother discussing it today.
What? You had problems with players talking and interacting with each other in the old SWG more than almost all current MMOs today? In a day and age of MMOs where people barely form up for groups? And if they do, greetings are the extent of communication. When the short-term task is done, the group disintegrates with barely even a goodbye from any members? MMOs where players don't really need each other for anything? Might as well be single-player console RPGs.
The game had massive problems in the Pre-CU/NGE days. Not even the most hardcore fan of that era cannot deny that. But the game gave far more possibilities and avenues of gameplay to go down than most MMOs these days.
...Very well put.
I love SWG pre-NGE, and the reason was pretty simple, I'm a sci-fi geek and i found a home...finally...and i was around people who were just like me and life was grand...finding a party? never a problem, but it was also people having fun...not a group of people in a desperate rush to get to point 'x' to slay enemy 'y' for a 15% chance to get 'z' drop and disband as soon as they got it.
Then it all changed and it never recovered, i left when i realized that out of the 30+ people we had in our guild only 7 of us were left and as far as i know so did the other 6.
Was SWG this "ZOMG amazing!" game? not exactly....it had more than it's fair share of problems, but they were easy to overlook when we were having fun.
I admit, every once in awhile i look at SWG pre-NGE with rose-colored glasses on.
SWG was the greatest chat room created to-date. As a game, it was one of the more horribly implemented piles of garbiage I've had the pleasure of uninstalling. Had the game not been 'taken' I doubt few would bother discussing it today.
What? You had problems with players talking and interacting with each other in the old SWG more than almost all current MMOs today? In a day and age of MMOs where people barely form up for groups? And if they do, greetings are the extent of communication. When the short-term task is done, the group disintegrates with barely even a goodbye from any members? MMOs where players don't really need each other for anything? Might as well be single-player console RPGs.
The game had massive problems in the Pre-CU/NGE days. Not even the most hardcore fan of that era cannot deny that. But the game gave far more possiblities and avenues of gameplay to go down than most MMOs these days.
I think you misunderstood my post. SWG was great for interacting with players, but most of it was done in chat. Cantinas, for example, were a great place to simply hang-out.
As for grouping though ... hardly. Other than the occasional guild hunt or event, most of the players were doing things solo. Between armor, templates, and generally borked mechanics I had no reason to group with anyone to do most anything. For example, I had no issue solo'ing Krayts and I was a one man mass extinction event on Dathomir.
Sure SWG had lots to do, but either those things were broken or too simple to bother with on a recurring basis.
Ico Oh, cruel fate, to be thusly boned. Ask not for whom the bone bones. It bones for thee.
I had no reason to group with anyone to do most anything. For example, I had no issue solo'ing Krayts and I was a one man mass extinction event on Dathomir.
But you did have a choice to do those things without buffs which would have made it a much tougher game. You're blaming the mechanics of the game when in fact it was the buffs you used that made combat boring for you.
SWG was the greatest chat room created to-date. As a game, it was one of the more horribly implemented piles of garbiage I've had the pleasure of uninstalling. Had the game not been 'taken' I doubt few would bother discussing it today.
What? You had problems with players talking and interacting with each other in the old SWG more than almost all current MMOs today? In a day and age of MMOs where people barely form up for groups? And if they do, greetings are the extent of communication. When the short-term task is done, the group disintegrates with barely even a goodbye from any members? MMOs where players don't really need each other for anything? Might as well be single-player console RPGs.
The game had massive problems in the Pre-CU/NGE days. Not even the most hardcore fan of that era cannot deny that. But the game gave far more possiblities and avenues of gameplay to go down than most MMOs these days.
I think you misunderstood my post. SWG was great for interacting with players, but most of it was done in chat. Cantinas, for example, were a great place to simply hang-out.
As for grouping though ... hardly. Other than the occasional guild hunt or event, most of the players were doing things solo. Between armor, templates, and generally borked mechanics I had no reason to group with anyone to do most anything. For example, I had no issue solo'ing Krayts and I was a one man mass extinction event on Dathomir.
Sure SWG had lots to do, but either those things were broken or too simple to bother with on a recurring basis.
I always had reasons to group and socialize. My old guild had a city and defending our base(s) and attacking enemy bases offered great organized fun. The alliances that were formed...the covert operations that were carefully planned to take down the enemy - great times that helped foster the superb community SWG once had. Nothing was quite as exciting than getting an emergency call to duty when it was least expected! SWG would have had a lot more content (even content for those who needed more handholding and direction) and fixes if $OE directed resources to the core game instead of developing the 'next' expansion and the unwanted, disastrous revamps. It saddens me to think how well SWG would be doing if the game was actually managed in a competent manner.
I had no reason to group with anyone to do most anything. For example, I had no issue solo'ing Krayts and I was a one man mass extinction event on Dathomir.
But you did have a choice to do those things without buffs which would have made it a much tougher game. You're blaming the mechanics of the game when in fact it was the buffs you used that made combat boring for you.
This is true.. I agree totally with that point.
When the game was still fairly new and you were playing on a server that hadn't spawn certain resources .. and stuff was fairly low quality.
Wearing armor would kill you fighting much of anything difficult.. between the HAM costs etc There were no buffs at that point or they were so poor quality that it didn't matter. I never saw anyone soloing Krayts at that time. In fact I remember certain missions "groups" wouldn't even pull because they would be wiped. You could solo those missions.. I know because I did.. but at that point Krayts.. um no.
After you had "good" resources....Buffs.. good quality weapons/armor... then of course you had people that forget they also had that multi sliced weapon etc or won't admit it and defense stacking.
Somehow its a mystery certain people were bored with combat?
Two parts of that were the developers fault.
1) They should have had a hard cap on defenses... any other MMO I've played has had these.
2) It appeared the never had much testing with things using "quality" resources.
Beyond that the amount of exploitation on the player end didn't help much either.
Obviously there were other things that needed to be fixed but... that's true of any game. It also comes down to that any individual here isn't required or expected to like every MMO out there.
I loved SWG.. others hated it. I think WAR is a steaming pile.. some people love it. This doesn't mean anyone is right or wrong.. its personal perspective. Which is why the question the OP asks cannot really be answered beyond a personal level.
When it hit 350,000 subs only one other "north american" based MMO had ever hit that. There were asian based games that had far more. So it was once a success... once upon a time.. Then WoW launched and it was a "failure".. once again perspective is everything.
I had no reason to group with anyone to do most anything. For example, I had no issue solo'ing Krayts and I was a one man mass extinction event on Dathomir.
But you did have a choice to do those things without buffs which would have made it a much tougher game. You're blaming the mechanics of the game when in fact it was the buffs you used that made combat boring for you.
Why wouldn't I blame the mechanics of the game? That's what SOE offered and refused to change.
Sure I could've chosen to fight Krayts as a pistoleer in bone armor, but why? Combat wasn't challenging, it was either a matter of time (ie. template build) or over powered gear/buffs.
It was mostly the same with PvP.
I'm sorry, but the onus is on the designer to create a challenging game, not the player.
Ico Oh, cruel fate, to be thusly boned. Ask not for whom the bone bones. It bones for thee.
Originally posted by Kazara I always had reasons to group and socialize. My old guild had a city and defending our base(s) and attacking enemy bases offered great organized fun. The alliances that were formed...the covert operations that were carefully planned to take down the enemy - great times that helped foster the superb community SWG once had. Nothing was quite as exciting than getting an emergency call to duty when it was least expected! SWG would have had a lot more content (even content for those who needed more handholding and direction) and fixes if $OE directed resources to the core game instead of developing the 'next' expansion and the unwanted, disastrous revamps. It saddens me to think how well SWG would be doing if the game was actually managed in a competent manner.
As an above poster stated, when SWG was fairly new there were numerous reasons to group; and, you've mentioned a few specifically here Kazara. Despite the scene looking like an Pokemon episode, I greatly enjoyed defending Moenia. Also, a lot guilds would host social events (plays and such), which made for a great community.
I think once people caught onto buffs, armor, templates, etc., the game changed. I'm not sure if it was just the newness wearing-off, but at least for me SWG became less and less fun after a few months. I kept thinking SOE would 'fix' things, and echoed the common sentiment 'yeah, the game sucks, but SWG has a lot of potential'. I lost much of that faith during the JTL beta.
Base defense/attacking was fun. Again though, the mechanics made any fun really frustrating. Whether it was a few McMs tossing mind poison or Jedi, the effort involved was rarely worth the time. The problems got to such an extent on Kettemoor that a number of guilds held events which specically prohibitted certain professions (McM, Jedi) and gear.
I agree with you 'potential' Kazara. SWG certainly had it; too bad SOE nor LA seemed to really care.
Ico Oh, cruel fate, to be thusly boned. Ask not for whom the bone bones. It bones for thee.
I had no reason to group with anyone to do most anything. For example, I had no issue solo'ing Krayts and I was a one man mass extinction event on Dathomir.
But you did have a choice to do those things without buffs which would have made it a much tougher game. You're blaming the mechanics of the game when in fact it was the buffs you used that made combat boring for you.
Why wouldn't I blame the mechanics of the game? That's what SOE offered and refused to change.
Sure I could've chosen to fight Krayts as a pistoleer in bone armor, but why? Combat wasn't challenging, it was either a matter of time (ie. template build) or over powered gear/buffs.
It was mostly the same with PvP.
I'm sorry, but the onus is on the designer to create a challenging game, not the player.
You're right of course in that SoE sould have made changes to ensure that when you were buffed you couldn't be a one-man wrecking crew in PvE. However you did have the option of not buffing up and experiencing combat how it was actually meant to be.
That option was up to you, nobody forced you to buff.
And BTW you couldn't use "overpowered" weapons and high resist armor when un-buffed due to encumbrance, therefore combat was that much more difficult and exciting.
In the spring of 2004, I opened my second account for SWG and created a new toon on Ahazi, to be one of the guild's steady MD/MCMs for support, specifically buffing, healing, and rezzing support.
I started grinding my new toon, a MonCal, up. My existing toon was still a MD and buffed him up as he started on his journey. I had him outfitted in padded armor, and he went out and started taking on critters on Naboo.
And ploughed right through them. Creatures that conned red to him were no challenge at all. He slaughtered narglatches, and fambaa, and plains stalkers, and just about whatever else in the way of creature opposition Naboo could offer.
But take away the buffs, and take away that padded armor, and the guy was dead meat.
It's true that buffs made a huge difference in PvE combat, but as Suvroc indicated, you could always make the content more challenging by not buffing up. The flow of combat was much different. With full doc buffs and composite, ubese, or padded, my CH didn't need meatshields at all against mid level combat. With his trusty GSP fighting at his side, Dath content was not an issue, either. Buffed TKMs could go through enraged rancors with all the ease that they'd go through durni.
My CH with some Commando and some BH had to use his creatures wisely if he was not buffed, because he could be killed. But with buffs? There was nothing on the five starter worlds, aside from Krayts and Peko Peko Albs, that he could not effectively solo.
CH, Jedi, Commando, Smuggler, BH, Scout, Doctor, Chef, BE...yeah, lots of SWG time invested.
Comments
To the OP and signus, No swg wasnt all that great to begin with, (imho it is better now than it was years ago ''ducks from shoes being thrown''). The thing about SWG was that it was back then ''new'', the only swg mmo around, and was one of the very few options for any sci-fi type mmo I went to swg when earth and beyond got shut down, every other thing in the old swg was bugged or broke, and just seemed impossible to fix, restructuring the game mechanics from the ground up is probably the only viable option soe/Lu had to try and fix it, it was like an old shoe for many of us it was broke and tattered, but we were so used to it being that way that it felt comfortable, (my guild went from hundreds at launch and dwindled to very few even before the cu) And when we got a new pair of shoes they were uncomfortable and gave us blisters due to the severity of it being different and we chose to walk barefoot instead of trying to break in the new shoes and establish a comfort level with them as we felt with our old worn comfy shoes.
playing eq2 and two worlds
Myself think, if the game was made like it is now, to start with, it woul have alot more players. Its the whole change that ruined it, even for me. i was used to 1 game, then CU came and changed everything, had to start over to learn it all, then NGE came, man i dont wanna start over again, and learn a new game for the 3rd time. Plus i dont like SOE didnt do a public vote on if it should be planted or not, they judt rushed it in.
They even stated taht CU was here to stay..... yea right....
that another reason why SWG dont have more players i think... u cant trust SOE anymore. to start with SOE was my fav devs.. not anymore
Towards the end of the Pre-CU, around Publish 13-14 ish it was actually running very well. It was in the state it needed to be to accept the CURB, which would have fixed the broken profession abilities and brought some rationality to buffs, armor, etc, but not changed the whole world like the CU.
Likewise, the CU was actually just starting to get good when they yanked it for the NGE, they were revamping professions that desperately needed it and making them better. They were actually adding stuff to the game that needed to be there (multipassenger vehicles), and the TOOW expansion in it's original state was hella good and VERY hard, actually requiring thought to get through.
Of course the NGE game won't ever get there because it can't. It's at it's heart a stripped down button mash that monkeys could play but probably wouldn't because it'd bore them to death.
For me, it was the greatest game ever, bugs and all. What the game offered and the potential it had far outweighed the problems. The player based economy , the complex crafting/resource system, and the unique professions (combatant and non-combatant) made the game an immersive world for many. If $OE had focused its resources and talent on game fixes and content instead of the next money grabbing expansion and unwanted, extreme revamps, the game would be doing far better than it is now or if it was released in the condition it currently is in as a WoW knock-off.
As I see it, SWG always had tremendous potential, if the developers would ever get their heads out of their asses and see it for themselves.
The problem is that they were awash in minutia nearly all the time. The damn thing was released about six months too early, and it never recovered from that single decision, which lead to the stupidity of the CU and the absolute idiocy of the NGE.
In beta I saw the potential. It excited me tremendously. The combat system was flawed, but it had tremendous potential subtlety and realism to it. The idea of the three pools was a great one. As a former soldier, I relished the potential of a combined arms approach to combat...one where your preparation for a battle was nearly as important as your execution of it. Where seeking a tactical advantage could pay off handsomely for those with the intelligence to make that tactical advantage theirs.
The economy...oh, the economy! The interdependence! The fact that carebear social professions had profound effects on combat, and that it might teach players about the interdependent nature of military organization and operations. The fact that your gear was made by other players, and logisitics was given the importance in the overall scheme of things that it deserves.
Frankly, I saw this as a great educational tool that would teach with very little effort.
The problem, or course, is that those in charge are all dark-side inclined; seeking the easy way instead of the way of patience. Let's just change the whole damn thing and hope for an entirely new audience that will be bigger than the one we have now!
Yeah, that worked really well, didn't it, sooper genious SOE asshats in suits?
CH, Jedi, Commando, Smuggler, BH, Scout, Doctor, Chef, BE...yeah, lots of SWG time invested.
Once a denizen of Ahazi
I loved SWG, but in all honesty the game was not all that great. People are all over the crafting system, but the mass-majority of gamers, don't want to sit for hours on end crafting. Both PvP and PvE were half-assed. It had potential, but SoE never got anything to work. Battlegrounds on Radiant, where I played, never worked. Jedi ranking system never got put up. PvP was just randomly going from major city to major city looking for overts. PvE was killing Krayts, DW Bunker, and the Corvettes. Compared to Everquest at its time, it was good. But if Pre-CU SWG came out on today's market, it would go nowhere. With recent games, my own personal standards for MMO's has risen. SWG doesn't meet it.
5) both space and ground based gameplay. with entroduction of JtL SWG was finally complete as far as lore and promises go. no other MMO I know has both space and ground...
Yep... With JTL SWG was poised to finally reach it's potential.
Instead in the next year they took out all the potential.
that's because in that year w0w was released and they scrapped CURB and gave us CU instead followed by NGE that same year.....
Was SWG really that great of a game? Ever?
Yes.
It had bugs and lag and everything else that could be a pain but because it limited people to one character, a true community formed where people needed other players and no elites formed where they had all of the top tier stuff. This was what made it special.
As for Jedi being a starting class. A jedi used to be what a Jedi should be, something that made everyone stop what they were doing and go look. Something rare.
If they rolled back the servers today I would re-activate my account tonight. No other game has come close to offering what SWG did.
I already posted my 'Yes' on this thread, but I just feel compelled to come back and say that I miss SWG-That-Was.
Due to various things in life, I was never able to really dedicate myself to the game. I played for a while, got pulled away, played some more, pulled away again, came back and had the CU hit me in the face. Left the game due to that... came back, once or twice more, I can't recall now, and then came back again for what felt like 'for good this time' only to have the NGE hit 2 months later.
I tried to stay around after that. I had to create a new character for the NGE, because I was not about to respec my beloved CH. But the loss of my CH and the horrible combat that I just couldn't deal with eventually drove the final nail in the coffin for me.
I still miss my CH so much, and I had also always wanted to play a trader in a game where it truly mattered, and wasn't just a 'side job' for my 'adventurer'.
SWG felt 'epic' to me, even if I was more 'Aunt Beru' than 'Princess Leia'. I was always happy with that. Nothing else has even come close to that epic feeling, though I continue to hope, though the hoping has become quite painful.
And I'm sad now, dangit. Must load up a game and find something to kill very messily while dreaming it's LucasArts/SOE.
During the first month or so, SWG was exactly what I imagined the Star Wars universe to be like. I would form up hunting parties with my guild and head out to Dathmir to hunt rancors. The greatest time I had playing SWG was during the first 2 months when 20 players would head out (with entertainers in tow) and hunt rancors. The ranger camps added to the entire feel of Star Wars. Player cities were also amazing, with some cities so advanced that you never had to go to one of the game's capital cities ever. I loved the community found in a well run player city, with real city design and an entertainer afk in a cantina to help you forget your troubles... SWG was a great game for 2 months.
Then I was introduced to doctor buffs. This is IMO what destroyed this game for me. The game lost all it's SW feel once I could doctor buff up and go kill Nightsister Elders and Krayt Dragons solo. The Star Wars universe was not designed to enjoy anything solo. The first time I soloed a Krayt dragon was like the end for me. I decided to abandon the over-powered doctor buffs when doing missions, but something changed in me once I soloed the BIG target. I could never get that innocence back that I had before getting doctor buffs.
Don't get me wrong - doctor buffs were needed to even equip most armor back then and was absolutely essential for PVP, I just think certain resource stats needed to be capped. This applies to armor and weapons too... you always knew who made the best stuff and always shopped there.
I would re-purchase the game again if there was a carte blanche without doctor buffs. I can handle the entertainer buffs it was just the crazy over-powered doctor buffs that ruined it for me.
[url=http://www.flickr.com/photos/28371832@N02/2648951313/[/url]
in short ..SWG PRE CU for me best MMO ever..tho i missed UO...
-----MY-TERMS-OF-USE--------------------------------------------------
$OE - eternal enemy of online gaming
-We finally WON !!!! 2011 $OE accepted that they have been fired 2005 by the playerbase and closed down ridiculous NGE !!
"There was suppression of speech and all kinds of things between disturbing and fascistic." Raph Koster (parted $OE)
SWG was the greatest chat room created to-date. As a game, it was one of the more horribly implemented piles of garbiage I've had the pleasure of uninstalling.
Had the game not been 'taken' I doubt few would bother discussing it today.
Ico
Oh, cruel fate, to be thusly boned. Ask not for whom the bone bones. It bones for thee.
You are right.
We would all be playing it.
What? You had problems with players talking and interacting with each other in the old SWG more than almost all current MMOs today? In a day and age of MMOs where people barely form up for groups? And if they do, greetings are the extent of communication. When the short-term task is done, the group disintegrates with barely even a goodbye from any members? MMOs where players don't really need each other for anything? Might as well be single-player console RPGs.
The game had massive problems in the Pre-CU/NGE days. Not even the most hardcore fan of that era cannot deny that. But the game gave far more possiblities and avenues of gameplay to go down than most MMOs these days.
"I have only two out of my company and 20 out of some other company. We need support, but it is almost suicide to try to get it here as we are swept by machine gun fire and a constant barrage is on us. I have no one on my left and only a few on my right. I will hold." (First Lieutenant Clifton B. Cates, US Marine Corps, Soissons, 19 July 1918)
What? You had problems with players talking and interacting with each other in the old SWG more than almost all current MMOs today? In a day and age of MMOs where people barely form up for groups? And if they do, greetings are the extent of communication. When the short-term task is done, the group disintegrates with barely even a goodbye from any members? MMOs where players don't really need each other for anything? Might as well be single-player console RPGs.
The game had massive problems in the Pre-CU/NGE days. Not even the most hardcore fan of that era cannot deny that. But the game gave far more possibilities and avenues of gameplay to go down than most MMOs these days.
I love SWG pre-NGE, and the reason was pretty simple, I'm a sci-fi geek and i found a home...finally...and i was around people who were just like me and life was grand...finding a party? never a problem, but it was also people having fun...not a group of people in a desperate rush to get to point 'x' to slay enemy 'y' for a 15% chance to get 'z' drop and disband as soon as they got it.
Then it all changed and it never recovered, i left when i realized that out of the 30+ people we had in our guild only 7 of us were left and as far as i know so did the other 6.
Was SWG this "ZOMG amazing!" game? not exactly....it had more than it's fair share of problems, but they were easy to overlook when we were having fun.
I admit, every once in awhile i look at SWG pre-NGE with rose-colored glasses on.
What? You had problems with players talking and interacting with each other in the old SWG more than almost all current MMOs today? In a day and age of MMOs where people barely form up for groups? And if they do, greetings are the extent of communication. When the short-term task is done, the group disintegrates with barely even a goodbye from any members? MMOs where players don't really need each other for anything? Might as well be single-player console RPGs.
The game had massive problems in the Pre-CU/NGE days. Not even the most hardcore fan of that era cannot deny that. But the game gave far more possiblities and avenues of gameplay to go down than most MMOs these days.
I think you misunderstood my post. SWG was great for interacting with players, but most of it was done in chat. Cantinas, for example, were a great place to simply hang-out.
As for grouping though ... hardly. Other than the occasional guild hunt or event, most of the players were doing things solo. Between armor, templates, and generally borked mechanics I had no reason to group with anyone to do most anything. For example, I had no issue solo'ing Krayts and I was a one man mass extinction event on Dathomir.
Sure SWG had lots to do, but either those things were broken or too simple to bother with on a recurring basis.
Ico
Oh, cruel fate, to be thusly boned. Ask not for whom the bone bones. It bones for thee.
But you did have a choice to do those things without buffs which would have made it a much tougher game. You're blaming the mechanics of the game when in fact it was the buffs you used that made combat boring for you.
What? You had problems with players talking and interacting with each other in the old SWG more than almost all current MMOs today? In a day and age of MMOs where people barely form up for groups? And if they do, greetings are the extent of communication. When the short-term task is done, the group disintegrates with barely even a goodbye from any members? MMOs where players don't really need each other for anything? Might as well be single-player console RPGs.
The game had massive problems in the Pre-CU/NGE days. Not even the most hardcore fan of that era cannot deny that. But the game gave far more possiblities and avenues of gameplay to go down than most MMOs these days.
I think you misunderstood my post. SWG was great for interacting with players, but most of it was done in chat. Cantinas, for example, were a great place to simply hang-out.
As for grouping though ... hardly. Other than the occasional guild hunt or event, most of the players were doing things solo. Between armor, templates, and generally borked mechanics I had no reason to group with anyone to do most anything. For example, I had no issue solo'ing Krayts and I was a one man mass extinction event on Dathomir.
Sure SWG had lots to do, but either those things were broken or too simple to bother with on a recurring basis.
I always had reasons to group and socialize. My old guild had a city and defending our base(s) and attacking enemy bases offered great organized fun. The alliances that were formed...the covert operations that were carefully planned to take down the enemy - great times that helped foster the superb community SWG once had. Nothing was quite as exciting than getting an emergency call to duty when it was least expected! SWG would have had a lot more content (even content for those who needed more handholding and direction) and fixes if $OE directed resources to the core game instead of developing the 'next' expansion and the unwanted, disastrous revamps. It saddens me to think how well SWG would be doing if the game was actually managed in a competent manner.
But you did have a choice to do those things without buffs which would have made it a much tougher game. You're blaming the mechanics of the game when in fact it was the buffs you used that made combat boring for you.
This is true.. I agree totally with that point.
When the game was still fairly new and you were playing on a server that hadn't spawn certain resources .. and stuff was fairly low quality.
Wearing armor would kill you fighting much of anything difficult.. between the HAM costs etc There were no buffs at that point or they were so poor quality that it didn't matter. I never saw anyone soloing Krayts at that time. In fact I remember certain missions "groups" wouldn't even pull because they would be wiped. You could solo those missions.. I know because I did.. but at that point Krayts.. um no.
After you had "good" resources....Buffs.. good quality weapons/armor... then of course you had people that forget they also had that multi sliced weapon etc or won't admit it and defense stacking.
Somehow its a mystery certain people were bored with combat?
Two parts of that were the developers fault.
1) They should have had a hard cap on defenses... any other MMO I've played has had these.
2) It appeared the never had much testing with things using "quality" resources.
Beyond that the amount of exploitation on the player end didn't help much either.
Obviously there were other things that needed to be fixed but... that's true of any game. It also comes down to that any individual here isn't required or expected to like every MMO out there.
I loved SWG.. others hated it. I think WAR is a steaming pile.. some people love it. This doesn't mean anyone is right or wrong.. its personal perspective. Which is why the question the OP asks cannot really be answered beyond a personal level.
When it hit 350,000 subs only one other "north american" based MMO had ever hit that. There were asian based games that had far more. So it was once a success... once upon a time.. Then WoW launched and it was a "failure".. once again perspective is everything.
But you did have a choice to do those things without buffs which would have made it a much tougher game. You're blaming the mechanics of the game when in fact it was the buffs you used that made combat boring for you.
Why wouldn't I blame the mechanics of the game? That's what SOE offered and refused to change.
Sure I could've chosen to fight Krayts as a pistoleer in bone armor, but why? Combat wasn't challenging, it was either a matter of time (ie. template build) or over powered gear/buffs.
It was mostly the same with PvP.
I'm sorry, but the onus is on the designer to create a challenging game, not the player.
Ico
Oh, cruel fate, to be thusly boned. Ask not for whom the bone bones. It bones for thee.
As an above poster stated, when SWG was fairly new there were numerous reasons to group; and, you've mentioned a few specifically here Kazara. Despite the scene looking like an Pokemon episode, I greatly enjoyed defending Moenia. Also, a lot guilds would host social events (plays and such), which made for a great community.
I think once people caught onto buffs, armor, templates, etc., the game changed. I'm not sure if it was just the newness wearing-off, but at least for me SWG became less and less fun after a few months. I kept thinking SOE would 'fix' things, and echoed the common sentiment 'yeah, the game sucks, but SWG has a lot of potential'. I lost much of that faith during the JTL beta.
Base defense/attacking was fun. Again though, the mechanics made any fun really frustrating. Whether it was a few McMs tossing mind poison or Jedi, the effort involved was rarely worth the time. The problems got to such an extent on Kettemoor that a number of guilds held events which specically prohibitted certain professions (McM, Jedi) and gear.
I agree with you 'potential' Kazara. SWG certainly had it; too bad SOE nor LA seemed to really care.
Ico
Oh, cruel fate, to be thusly boned. Ask not for whom the bone bones. It bones for thee.
But you did have a choice to do those things without buffs which would have made it a much tougher game. You're blaming the mechanics of the game when in fact it was the buffs you used that made combat boring for you.
Why wouldn't I blame the mechanics of the game? That's what SOE offered and refused to change.
Sure I could've chosen to fight Krayts as a pistoleer in bone armor, but why? Combat wasn't challenging, it was either a matter of time (ie. template build) or over powered gear/buffs.
It was mostly the same with PvP.
I'm sorry, but the onus is on the designer to create a challenging game, not the player.
You're right of course in that SoE sould have made changes to ensure that when you were buffed you couldn't be a one-man wrecking crew in PvE. However you did have the option of not buffing up and experiencing combat how it was actually meant to be.
That option was up to you, nobody forced you to buff.
And BTW you couldn't use "overpowered" weapons and high resist armor when un-buffed due to encumbrance, therefore combat was that much more difficult and exciting.
In the spring of 2004, I opened my second account for SWG and created a new toon on Ahazi, to be one of the guild's steady MD/MCMs for support, specifically buffing, healing, and rezzing support.
I started grinding my new toon, a MonCal, up. My existing toon was still a MD and buffed him up as he started on his journey. I had him outfitted in padded armor, and he went out and started taking on critters on Naboo.
And ploughed right through them. Creatures that conned red to him were no challenge at all. He slaughtered narglatches, and fambaa, and plains stalkers, and just about whatever else in the way of creature opposition Naboo could offer.
But take away the buffs, and take away that padded armor, and the guy was dead meat.
It's true that buffs made a huge difference in PvE combat, but as Suvroc indicated, you could always make the content more challenging by not buffing up. The flow of combat was much different. With full doc buffs and composite, ubese, or padded, my CH didn't need meatshields at all against mid level combat. With his trusty GSP fighting at his side, Dath content was not an issue, either. Buffed TKMs could go through enraged rancors with all the ease that they'd go through durni.
My CH with some Commando and some BH had to use his creatures wisely if he was not buffed, because he could be killed. But with buffs? There was nothing on the five starter worlds, aside from Krayts and Peko Peko Albs, that he could not effectively solo.
CH, Jedi, Commando, Smuggler, BH, Scout, Doctor, Chef, BE...yeah, lots of SWG time invested.
Once a denizen of Ahazi