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OMFG ITZ NOT SWG2.0 WTFBBQ and the grafix??? meh
Tiller
Member LegendaryPosts: 11,163
.......2 years ago I would've said something like that, But then I tried the (unnamed project), and realized, without a community the game could not stand on its own, and other words pre-cu was only fun because the people around you made it fun whether directly or indirectly.
When I first tried SWG back in the day I had a blast, but after all the exploration was done, the profession I wanted ground out and I had the loot I wanted the only thing keeping me playing was the people I knew. There were few quests, no real story to follow no real reason to continue to play other than boring and pointless PvE , imbalanced PvP, crafting stuff new or few people would bother buying because you didn’t make the best stated items, and of course the Jedi grind. Granted the NGE is truly a piece of shit even though they have added a lot, but then again so was pre-cu with all it’s sandboxy openness. If pre-cu SWG had no point, NGE makes no sense with its point. It’s a mess, for real. We have Clone wars, we have ANH, ESB, RoTJ, Old republic, and some shit I swear they just stole from Ultima Online and Everquest. It's like they built the world first, then said uhhh, we have to come up with a story now? bah people will buy it cause its Star Wars. it doesn’t 't need a point.
No idea what the attachment I had to pre-cu was because to be honest if they brought it back now I still wouldn't bother staying because the friends I had left years ago; even as far back as 2004 around the beta of WoW, before JTL launched. The game was dying then and has continued to slowly die over its 5 year life span. Yes there were more people playing back then, but most have left, returned, then left again forever. Obviously something has always been wrong with SWG even though we had fun in it. I’m not saying it had no redeeming qualities about it, I’m just saying it’s wasn’t and isn’t all that. But then again most games on the market are lacking (something) What would that be? Fun maybe? Now I’m pretty much neutral and unfeeling about SWG, it could have been a great game, but it wasn’t and I don’t really care anymore.
With all that said, do you really want TOR to be SWG 2.0? I don’t! There are some features I think would work in any MMO that has been missing and I think (and hope) BioWare figured out what that element is. Lets be honest here, no one here knows what the final classes are gonna be, no one here knows how open ended the world will be (but based on a recent interview it seems likely) No one knows exactly how the PvP system will be structured, no one knows how the crafting system is structured, and no one knows how player housing will be handled. Have we seen any updates on space yet? Nope.
As for the art all I can say is almost every Beta Shot I’ve seen for any game has ended up being way different from the final product. WAR’s early shots differed from the final product, LOTRO has changed a lot since I beta tested it, WoW looked ten times worse in alpha then it does now. Some of the early tech demo shots of SWG were far beyond anything you even see in the game currently because they were static representation shots, not actual game play shots. I’m sure the final TOR will look nothing like it does even right this very moment.
below are some early SWG concept shots
Point is people who are complaining because it’s not SWG 2.0 should just sit tight. Change your expectations and look at this as a NEW game, but don’t lower your expectations on quality. This is a new game, not SWG 2.0 and to expect anything else isn’t really being fair to yourself or anyone else looking forward to trying it.
Wondering where all you old friends are from 3-4 years ago? Go take a look around the forums over there. A lot of the people I knew went to go play other MMOs after they left SWG and are now filtering thru the TOR forums.
All I’m saying is stop with the complaining. I’m a SWG refugee but there comes a time when you should really just get over it and move on. We all agree, the NGE is crap, SWG is crap, people who like it amuse us, but we once liked it as well and people laughed at us for it. Now is the chance for a company to redeem the Star Wars MMO legacy, try not to ruin it by all the whining to where old friends and potential new friends say “fuck that game”. LEC could’ve just said FU, no more SW MMO we have been screaming about for years now, but to some of us they listened, because we are getting a new SW MMO.
I’m not saying OMG this will be the best game eva, I’m just sayin just fucking shut up, sit back and wait before you complain about everything that as far we know doesn’t even exist yet. Unless you just like complaining and making yourself look anal, then by all means, have a ball. But you’re only doing yourself a disservice; will anything truly ever make you happy?
-Vanive
Comments
"All I’m saying is stop with the complaining. I’m a SWG refugee but there comes a time when you should really just get over it and move on. We all agree, the NGE is crap, SWG is crap, people who like it amuse us, but we once liked it as well and people laughed at us for it. Now is the chance for a company to redeem the Star Wars MMO legacy, try not to ruin it by all the whining to where old friends and potential new friends say “fuck that game”. LEC could’ve just said FU, no more SW MMO we have been screaming about for years now, but to some of us they listened, because we are getting a new SW MMO."
In my opinion, this is the most important part of your post.
As a launch day person of SWG that continues to play today those screenshots you have are exactly what the game looks like, there was almost no difference between the concept art and what was put into the game.
Agree or not that is my opinion.
The buildings in the current game look a lot better, the avatar faces are not as detailed as in that screenshot, Jawas look nothing like that shot up close and the sand on Tattooine looks nothing like those static 3D mock ups. Those pictures are not actually from SWG as it exsists currently, just digital mock ups, but hey you are free to think what you want.
This is actually what people ended up seeing
www.subnova.com/library/view/images/endor9.jpg
I'm less worried about them making SWG2, than I am about them making WoW2.
See, SWG never had the brain-dead mass-market appeal they are going for here. So SWG2 obviously is out.
BUT...will the game have enough sandbox elements to avoid becoming just another WoW clone??? THAT is the real question at this point.
I remember back in 1999, folks kept asking me if I was stockpiling food. I always answered, "No, I'm stockpiling ammo and making a list of people who are stockpiling food"
The reason that escapes the OP for why he loved pre-cu SWG was the community that was built due to the sandbox nature of the game, bolstered by rich non-combat and social systems. The non-combat systems and classes were every bit as rich as the combat systems. I have no problem remembering what it was about SWG that I loved. It was the people, the community, which was enabled by the game's ability to let them truly forge their own path in the game.
By comparison to today's (few) polished MMO's, the game itself was completely incoherent and broken. We all knew that. There were few quests, many of which were bugged, and the whole game was mostly grind. What kept people playing for *years* was the community. I had more fun having random player driven adventures in SWG than I have on any scripted or non-scripted quest in modern games.
Let me list a few things I did in SWG that I can't really do in any other game. I am an outdoorsman in real life, so when I realized the flexibility of SWG would let me mimic this in the game, I was all over it. It didnt even really seemed like role playing to me, because it was just natural. The game had a tendancy to put players in character in their heads, so the rest would come out naturally.
1) I created a toon who's job was owning/running "Back country" stores that sold stuff to people who were out in the middle of no where, hunting or questing. My shops were themed and decorated to give one the feel of walking into a mountain store where things like camping/hunting gear were sold (camps, food, pet food, fishing bait, meds, etc). Since I could place my shops pretty much anywhere I wanted in the game world, I would find quiet place out in the wilderness (yes SWG had wilderness) where I knew people liked to grind certain mobs. I would make my vendor NPC look like he was dressed for a fishing trip, and when he talked to you, he was in-character. People *loved* my stores, and even though I didnt' make a ton of money off of them, the atmosphere I brought to to the game, and the friendships I made through selling and buying things from other crafters to sell in my shop were amazing.
2) To go along with my back country shop owner, I wanted to create a hunting toon that could supply hides and other things I needed for the shops. I rolled a Master Ranger / Master Rifleman. I would get on the SWG forums and post advertisements as a Ranger for Hire. Through the skills and flexibility of the game, I was able to create a toon that was something similar to a survivalist. People would hire me to lead expeditions to find Krayt Dragons, or some other mobs they knew where hard to find. Other crafters would hire me to do contract hunting for rare materials they needed to make great gear. I built a lot of relationships with other players, and had too many fun adventures to count.
Sometimes I would just be sitting out in the middle of nowhere at my campfire / tent and some other players would stumble upon me. I would offer them to join me for some food and chat, and sometimes they would go on their way, or ask me to join them on an adventure. No matter what happened, the fact that you could stumble upon a player in the middle of nowhere (SWG is HUGE), and have an interaction such as this was incredible.
3) My large house was a "Hunting Lodge" open to the public. People may not know this if they didnt' play the game, but nearly *everything* you could have in your inventory in SWG had a real 3D model, and could be dropped in your homes or shops. SWG had a clunky but flexible system to allow you to arrange, oveylap and place these items pretty much any way you wanted in your home. The results of this are player-created themed creations such as Cantinas, lodges, temples , general stores, gun stores, restaurants, hotels, hospitals and even just elaborate, awe-inspiring homes. Your imagination was your main limit here.
Going along with my outdoorsmen theme, I created a Hunting lodge and made my sign outside so people would know to come in and take a look at it. I spent many, many of hours over months to get this place set up the way I wanted it, and the result was awesome. I would get random messages from people in the game who saw my sign and stepped in to see that I had created. They would compliment me and tell me how awesome it was. Some people used it as a lodge and came back frequently.
-----------------------------------
I want to say something again that I touched on above. I am not really a roll player. I don't have anything against roll playing, but it has never been my thing. SWG's sandbox game play just made it easy and natural to step into the shoes of your toon. I wouldn't call what I was doing roll playing in the traditional sense, but I definitely was in-character most of the time.
I know I did a horrible job above of explaining what I did in SWG. I only scratched the surface of the true experience. The main point I want you to take away from the above was that combat was only a potion of what I did in the game. It was essential to me because I love killing stuff too, but it was only part of my whole experience. There were days I would just hunt and quest, and there were days I would craft, or gather resources, or just interact with other players. What mmo today offers a rich experience outside of combat and questing?
My 'outdoorsmen' experience was mine. You can talk to countless other people who made their own path through the Star Wars universe that was completely different, and equally as deep. We weren't stuck playing one of a handful of done-to-death arch classes like we are today.
A sure sign that you are in an old, dying paradigm/mindset, is when you are scared of new ideas and new technology. Don't feel bad. The world is moving on without you, and you are welcome to yell "Get Off My Lawn!" all you want while it happens. You cannot, however, stop an idea whose time has come.
I have to seriously agree with you. The last thing I want to play is World of WacraftHammer in a Star Wars Universe. This is my fear for this game.
I'm not entirely concerned that TOR will not be SWG 2.0 i am concerned they will doubly trash the starwars franchise with another mmo that sucks, i am kinda of convinced a sw mmo can only work in the was swg worked, What the guy said about having fun in the community was true, everything was broker and noone really cared because what you could do and how expansive everything you could do was to awesome all they needed was to spend time fixing stuff and then expanding and the game would be wow right now. I can't wait for earthrise or darkfall
I think right now this is everyone's worry about the game. But, we'll know for sure what to expect within a couple of months.
A good writeup tillamook
and I agree with everything, the new star wars game should be as far away from being like SWG as possible. If it did hold any features or resemble SWG in any way it would be cursed with the history that went along with SWG/SOE.
The crafting system in SWG (pre-NGE) is widely regarded as the best ever in the genre.
The Housing flexibilty in SWG (pre-NGE) with regard to how you could display items in your house was one of the best offered to date.
I don't think wanting those two features to make their way into TOR or any new MMO is asking for that MMO to be SWG 2.0. If anything taking those two systems and further refining them would be akin to one of the processes that Blizzard did in taking existing systems from games and polishing them up with WoW. I can see where some people may think using those two systems (or a new iteration of) may be "asking for SWG 2.0" because it can be argued those two systems were the major aspects of SWG along with space when JTL came around.
Everyone is entitled to there opinion and mine is that it is completely idiotic to not want a crafting and housing system with as much depth as those two had in addition to all the other features. It's just another option that will draw more people to the game and an addictive option that will keep people playing for months at a time. Recent releases have proven that quests and PvP alone aren't enough to keep people very long. Strong social building tools are needed as well.
"Many nights, my friend... Many nights I've put a blade to your throat while you were sleeping. Glad I never killed you, Steve. You're alright..."
Chavez y Chavez
Why putting (pre-NGE) after those features? Except for decay, crafting has stayed the same or expanded. Current Munitions is better then ever. Giving you way more weapon choice then before.
Decorating has more movement options now and has also expanded. It has a lot more freedom now. You can even put items upside down against the ceiling if you want.
Stop being so ignorant about the current state of the game please. Get your facts straight.
Current SWG is totally different from when NGE was released. And to bad for you frustrated preNGE vets, it will be more sandbox then SWTOR will ever be.
And this is not coming from a NGE noob, but from a gamer. Stop sticking your head into the sand and open your eyes ffs (this goes for all those vets that cant let go).
Why putting (pre-NGE) after those features? Except for decay, crafting has stayed the same or expanded. Current Munitions is better then ever. Giving you way more weapon choice then before.
Decorating has more movement options now and has also expanded. It has a lot more freedom now. You can even put items upside down against the ceiling if you want.
Stop being so ignorant about the current state of the game please. Get your facts straight.
Current SWG is totally different from when NGE was released. And to bad for you frustrated preNGE vets, it will be more sandbox then SWTOR will ever be.
And this is not coming from a NGE noob, but from a gamer. Stop sticking your head into the sand and open your eyes ffs (this goes for all those vets that cant let go).
I put NGE in front because I damn well pleased to. Prior to NGE the crafting system was in fact a deal more expansive than it is now. Crafting was not bastardized down to 4 areas. A player could specialize in a usefull manner.
The only ignorance I see here is yours. You have no idea what I have or have not played and at what times yet you come in running off at the mouth. And if you read any frustration in what I posted previously you are indeed as ignorant as you come off.
No where is it mandated that I have to give any credit to post NGE features so don't come whining to me because I don't give your version of the game kudos. I like/prefer how it was prior to the NGE. Deal with it.
"Many nights, my friend... Many nights I've put a blade to your throat while you were sleeping. Glad I never killed you, Steve. You're alright..."
Chavez y Chavez
Get real, SWG pre cu isn't the best sandbox game. I thought it was a good game but far from best. UO and AC and even EQ both hit the floor with SWG pre cu in my opinion.
SANDBOX FORMULA=NOT FLAWED
Sandbox formula DOES NOT MEAN it doesn't need content. Anyone who thinks that, should be advised to play a simulator like Second life. In mmo-land , the best mmo would be a sandbox and a game in one. The world is sandbox , the freedom with content like player made economy, crafting, pvp and even pve but still a mix with linear content like questing, story line etc. etc. You can still create your own stories but you also have predesigned content. You just can pick what you would like to do aka the sandbox experience , except not the flawed one like SWG !
SWG pre cu was far from GOOD. However it wasn't bad, i liked it , however, maybe 1 year more for example and you had a fantastic game. The problem was the bugs, the missing content, the unfinished content etc.
It was flawed because it missed so much content. Still, it wasn't a failure. It was SOE fault for ruining the game, there fault that it was so buggy and unfinished. All we did was accepting it because it was still fun. Now imagine a sandbox mmo with a game inside. The fact is you cannot have only a sandbox mmo, if you build one , you need content ,if you don't, it will flop. Even sandbox mmo's need content , they aren't second life and are still games, they just give you freedom with what to do.
Sandbox formula needs this:
Freedom
content ( examples : pvp ala sieges , fotresses, recourses to capture, player made economy, crafting and pve. That's already enough to make a polished sandbox mmo which would likely NOT fail if designed properly and would already be better then SWG pre cu. As long as it has content and is at least decent polished. You just need a basic, like pvp, economy, pve and crafting . VOila , your set.
For the tutorials, you can have quests but you can also have a story line ala the pve part.
If SWG pre cu was missing content, doesn't mean sandbox formula = flawed. If people think like that, then clearly, they should think better! EQ had sandbox elements, AC had sandbox elements, UO was sandbox, EVE is sandbox. Did these fail? NO!
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the old days, the days of gold.
representer of euhporium, shade/amity , high member of the council.
played
UO,M59,EVE,L2,AC,GW,WOW,LOTRO,SWG pre cu/nge,COH/COV, VG,TR,L1, POTBS,Neocron 1 and 2, DAOC pre TOA and age of conan
playing: EVE ONLINE
Waiting for Earthrise, FE, bioware mmo, guild wars 2, DFO , mortal online , the chronicles of spellborn
Good post. Having the best parts of SWG is not asking too much. The professions pre-cu, housing (with a lot limit/fix to lot trading), player cities, crafting/resources are what some of us liked about the game.
People who are complaining because it’s not SWG 2.0, should be glad that this will not be another failure, like SWG.
people who actualy thought this game was going to be like swg where failures from the start
I like the crafting from SWG, that much I can agree on without further elaboration. I doubt crafting will be as deep in TOR to be honest, which is a shame, but not game-breaking for me (never was much of a crafter).
As to housing....I -DO- like housing and I would like to see it in TOR. However I would not care if it was "instanced". The player-cities and the house-building in SWG was, in my eyes, actually a little...mhh, unpractical in the end. If you put houses everywhere on the planet, it just clutters up the maps eventually. While I like the basic idea of free city/house-building, I can see how it may be a problem.
I wouldn't mind having a sort of "zoned" housing, meaning that the place to build your houses and buildings would be a seperate zone, thus creating less stress on the other servers. I'm also happy with the idea of having your ship be your home, as long as the game gives you -loads- of customization options and the possibility of other players visiting you.
I have no idea what BioWare is planning for housing, but I do think they will be implementing one version of the above.
Which Final Fantasy Character Are You?
Final Fantasy 7
I like the crafting from SWG, that much I can agree on without further elaboration. I doubt crafting will be as deep in TOR to be honest, which is a shame, but not game-breaking for me (never was much of a crafter).
As to housing....I -DO- like housing and I would like to see it in TOR. However I would not care if it was "instanced". The player-cities and the house-building in SWG was, in my eyes, actually a little...mhh, unpractical in the end. If you put houses everywhere on the planet, it just clutters up the maps eventually. While I like the basic idea of free city/house-building, I can see how it may be a problem.
I wouldn't mind having a sort of "zoned" housing, meaning that the place to build your houses and buildings would be a seperate zone, thus creating less stress on the other servers. I'm also happy with the idea of having your ship be your home, as long as the game gives you -loads- of customization options and the possibility of other players visiting you.
I have no idea what BioWare is planning for housing, but I do think they will be implementing one version of the above.
I agree that the housing was somewhat overcrowded towards the end of SWG, but I highly disagree with instanced housing. This imo completely destroys the concept of a living breathing world and kills the feeling of having your own land to control and defend.
The housing in SWG could have EASILY had it's problems fixed with a little thought from SOE. If they would have slightly restricted where cities could be built a little better, and if their house packup feature was in at the beginning, and they had houses auto packup if the account of the owner had been innactive for 3 or more months, the congestion and overcrowded feel of the cities would have been gone.
Frankly the only things I really want in TOR from SWG were the crafting, the housing, and the skill based profession system. Those were the features that made SWG better than any other MMO past or present.
Tried: LotR, CoH, AoC, WAR, Jumpgate Classic
Played: SWG, Guild Wars, WoW
Playing: Eve Online, Counter-strike
Loved: Star Wars Galaxies
Waiting for: Earthrise, Guild Wars 2, anything sandbox.
He wasn't addressing the lag. He plainly writes what he was talking about in the sentences following where he said they could have been fixed. And he's right in respect to those aspects. He states that they could have:
1) Restrict where cities were built. Have pre-designated areas where players could build their houses.
2) Incorporate the house pack-up feature from the start. This would make the housing system better, from the start.
3) Auto- house pack-up for houses on accounts that are inactive for more than 3 months (or 6, either or). This would allow for people who actually kept playing to have usable space in game and allow for those who take a break to come back with all their things neatly packaged up. They would just have to hunt for a new spot to put the house down.
All that aside when I tried the NGE a month or two ago with all the free time I had accumulated since November 2005, entering houses on Bria it never took more than 5-10 seconds for extremely packed houses to load all their objects for me. In my opinion that is less of an issue than the 3 points listed above.
As for fixing the lag issue, bigger better faster computers happen fairly often. So does better database software. They could upgrade their hardware and software and that would help with lag. They aren't going to now obviously because they don't have enough players to warrant it economically. Point is it can be done if you plan for it in advance and prepare for it. I don't think they ever had any idea housing and decorating as we saw in SWG would catach on, which doesn't surprise me because just about every developer underestimates that facet of MMO gameplay, which obviously is very popular.
"Many nights, my friend... Many nights I've put a blade to your throat while you were sleeping. Glad I never killed you, Steve. You're alright..."
Chavez y Chavez
I like the crafting from SWG, that much I can agree on without further elaboration. I doubt crafting will be as deep in TOR to be honest, which is a shame, but not game-breaking for me (never was much of a crafter).
As to housing....I -DO- like housing and I would like to see it in TOR. However I would not care if it was "instanced". The player-cities and the house-building in SWG was, in my eyes, actually a little...mhh, unpractical in the end. If you put houses everywhere on the planet, it just clutters up the maps eventually. While I like the basic idea of free city/house-building, I can see how it may be a problem.
I wouldn't mind having a sort of "zoned" housing, meaning that the place to build your houses and buildings would be a seperate zone, thus creating less stress on the other servers. I'm also happy with the idea of having your ship be your home, as long as the game gives you -loads- of customization options and the possibility of other players visiting you.
I have no idea what BioWare is planning for housing, but I do think they will be implementing one version of the above.
I agree that the housing was somewhat overcrowded towards the end of SWG, but I highly disagree with instanced housing. This imo completely destroys the concept of a living breathing world and kills the feeling of having your own land to control and defend.
The housing in SWG could have EASILY had it's problems fixed with a little thought from SOE. If they would have slightly restricted where cities could be built a little better, and if their house packup feature was in at the beginning, and they had houses auto packup if the account of the owner had been innactive for 3 or more months, the congestion and overcrowded feel of the cities would have been gone.
Frankly the only things I really want in TOR from SWG were the crafting, the housing, and the skill based profession system. Those were the features that made SWG better than any other MMO past or present.
OK, instanced housing is a no-no for you, understandable in a way and I respect that. What about zoned housing however?
Imagine going to a Lift in Coruscant. The lift offers you the option to go to Residency Level 1-6, where each level is one "zone" of apartments/houses. That would seriously lessen stressload on the servers I should think. Same basic concept could be applied to any other environment.
Just a thought here, but would that still kill the game for you?
Which Final Fantasy Character Are You?
Final Fantasy 7