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New Player - Major Blance Problems will kill WAR
jonbosley
Member Posts: 2
Here is a copy of the email I have just sent to WAR.
I am a new player to Warhammer online and just want to share my first impressions with you. I have played MMO’s before having a level 60 Hunter in World of Warcraft. I have been a fan of Warhammer for many years so was looking forward to this game.
First of, I am not an expert and I have only very limit hours in Warhammer online. First, its very confusing when starting out, the manual is very, very limited in its content. I highly recommend an online pdf to help here. I bought the $9.99 Highelf guide to try and make some sense in want to do, Moral, Tactics – Tiers? I am not saying they are a bad idea but you need to explain them far better in the game manual.
There does not seem to be any major game bugs and it runs smooth, this is very good and you guys did a good job here but the real issue seems to be major problems in game balances. PVE is very, very easy. Having to almost tap a bad guy on the shoulder to get a reaction is silly, come on, give them a larger zone of control and make them attack.
PVP & RvR. I like PVP and know that this is the main push for the game. The combat works well but there seems to be huge character issues. I am playing with the latest patch with a High Elf Shadow Warrior. Here is the problem – Black Orc attacks on own, can’t see any healers near him- four of our guys attack in melee, I at distance, he quickly kills two of the attacking players – pushes the remaining to almost the start line before turning around (so as not to get attacked by NPC’s) kills another one of the attackers – two new good guys attack Orc, which now, after a while dies. That is nuts! He was level 10 most of us level 6 to 9. I would expect this from a level 15 to 20 tank taking on sub level 10’s.
I am going to abandon my Shadow Warrior as in PVP he is all but useless. Way to slow in moving, can’t keep distance between attackers (gets snared and caught way to easy). Does way to little damage. Most bow shots way to slow. The idea you paint for this build is a character that can move in and out of battle with easy – rubbish! He can’t even run backwards!
Let me give you an example from last night.
My Shadow Warrior Lv6 Dark elf tank Lv4.
I am in assault stance. Tank charges me I get a one shot off, and try backing up & move like a snail, melee, grim slash, I jump around and get a Brutal assault hit on him. I am now dead. He has next to zip damage on him. Why? Because he has amour and I have nothing that can get through. I know you do not want to here this but in Warcraft this is how the same battle would happen – Tank charges- I fire bow (my pet is dead for this example) I back up, moving fast and get many shots of . I back into a wall-oops and get caught, melee I get killed – Main difference is tank has a lot of damage on him and can be put to bed by another player with relative ease. That is an example of a balanced build.
You guys have put a lot of effort in the game but you must solve the balance issues.
I know you know that there are balance issues, hence the new patch but it’s not addressed them very well at all. I do not expect all classes to be even but the gap between some of them is vast. In leveling up terms I would put it close to 10 lvs. A level 10 Shadow Warrior might beat a Level 1-2 Black Orc.
Here is my recommendation for the Shadow warrior – Eagle eye, 2 second builds for a very limited dps shots (when armor is taken into account) is useless in pvp. Reduce time down and make it armored piercing.
Brutal assault – should be useable in front any time. Maybe armored piercing when used in back.
Speed buff – Skirmish stance move 20% faster.
All stances – able to run backwards is a must!!!
More armored piercing abilities to upset tanks. As it stands now enemy players all but ignore Shadow Warriors because of the small damage they inflict and take them down with just a few hits when there is no one left or lower levels target them for easy points in a kill.
My Shadow Warrior will likely hang up his bow and go back to shoe making.
I now see an unstoppable Black Orc heading his way!
Since writing this I googled WAR and found balancing was a major problem. Its a shame as this game will be killed in a year if they do not sort it out.
Comments
So you havent passed level 10 and you already have it all figured out? I dont see balancing as a major issue. Both SIDES ( not classes this isnt asingle player game) are pretty close in power.
WAR is not balanced for PvP and 1V1, it's based on RvR which involves teamwork.
Each class will have it's own strengths and weaknesses and will own or be owned by different classes.
It was never meant to be a straight PvP game. Play with your guild or a group... then each individual's strengths begin to show.
SW's in my guild are loving the patch so far.
_________________________________
JonMichael
Currently: AION, an MMO Beta under NDA
Played: WAR, LOTRO, Hellgate: London, CoX, GW, SotNW, DAOC, EQ2, SWG, WoW, AO, Horizons, Second Life, There, TSO
Beta'd: There, Second Life, EQ2, DAOC:LotM, LOTRO, Tabula Rasa, Gods and Heroes, Hellgate: London, Requiem:Bloodymare, AoC, WAR, DDO, Fallen Earth
Fans will tell you that balance is around group PvP, not 1v1 classes. This is true. But, as we all know, RvR consists of two groups fighting, of course, but within that a lot of small group or even 1v1 encounters are taking place. That's where the frsutration comes in. The classes are not designed to take each other on in a balanced way 1v1. It's an interesting design, but it leads to a lot of frustration in my view.
I don't think that this will "kill" WAR. WAR will have a good number of subs because it doesn't have a whole lot of competition in terms of PvP-oriented MMOs. But it does limit the appeal to many players. People like to feel effective in their class in general, not merely effective in one particular role -- and WAR's balancing is around roles, definitely.
Dude you should research in the forums more before you send in something like that. Frist off you need to play out of T1 before making any class judgement as all classes get buffs at differnet levels. Balance has been relative to the people who play as the game is a rock, papers, scissors ( Tank will almost always sqwish you) SW were under powered but just got a major set of buffs to damage for range. As they have always stated the game is RvR / PvP so PvE will always be light and they are trying to push ORvR more. Finally the fact that you mentioned WOW in your first sentence you are more then likely going to get deleted from the inbox.
You are not even level 10. If you look at the Hunter in WoW below level 10 you would come to the same conclusion. Actually the Hunter really sucks until 20 but that is besides the point.
Please level to at least 15-20 get your mastery points and abilities and then decide if the class you are playing sucks or not.
Don't get frustrated man,
I know it is really easy to do in Warhammer coming from doing PvP in games such as WOW,GW,DAoC and EQ2 (I know I was frustrated as hell with my Squig Herder and the Black Guard's dynamic) but be aware, SW and SH actually shines when there are keep battles and sieges as without a ranged dps class the tanks of your team is pretty much screwed.
Try doing what I do when chaos is abrupts and people are fighting pick and choose targets that are occupied (healers and casters first) as shooting tanks should be the last thing on the list and dot them up, dps them out as soon as possible (especially BW). Just try and play as the name speaks (shadowy) caused if you get noticed in a open field versus any tank class your pretty much dead if your not higher level than he or she is.
On a note I played a SH,CHosen,SM and SW up to 22 before the elder servers were put up with given templates and I can tell you now, your strenght against tanks come in the form of debuffing armor and such not spike dps. They will ignore you until they see constant debuffs lingering on them from you (lowered block chance, armor debuff, snares etc).
My WH at r30 can kill a black orc 1v1. I can kill almost anything 1v1 and I've seen other classes do it as well.
You need to learn how to play (and how to compose a letter). I imagine you've taken this attitude with you in other games and/or facits of your life. Do you quit on everything after a small encounter with difficulty?
Im sorry, but i have to agree with the others. You cant base your opinions off of a handful of experiences in t1.
If you wanted to do the same, take our 3 man that we built for t1... Shadowwarrior, Archmage and Brightwizard... we were kite/extending and killing 2fg+ in the t1 ORvR... without the shadowwarrior, this would have been impossible (AE root/snare shots).
You will find that ANY t1 tank can dish out dmg and take alot of hits , and the blackorc has a proc that will heal himself (technically wounds increase, but essentially it is a heal).
As to running backwards, YOU CAN STRAFE AND STILL SHOOT AT TARGETS BEHIND YOU! I am assuming you just havent figured this out yet (still t1), but there is no excuse for you getting caught by a melee class.
You know after reading this post i feel bad for mythic. There are HORDES of these types of players that come, play til maybe lvl 30 tops, then write this kind of feedback, whine on the boards, etc etc without ever really knowing what they are takling about.
Mythic you have my pity...
Lewk- Healer of Legacy Gareth
McDee- Spiritmaster of Maelstrom Percival
Murgu- Skald of Mordred
I honestly think you shouldn't comment on the class balance till you reached tier 4. I remember that I almost didn't heal with my Zealot until level 20. After that my healse became increasingly better and in tier 4 I can serve a group as a full blown healer. The game change a lot with the tiers. Tier 4 is a completely different game from T1. So blah..for stupid comments like this...
hmm.... Of course the OP should go further before drawing opinions about the gameplay. But the fact is, MOST people are going to be just like the OP when just starting a new game. Somebody posts a de facto experience, and everyone comes back with their de jure wisdom... which in the end, does not increase sales.
Mythic would be wise to do whatever they could to make T1 pvp battles interesting to all. (most people will try out a new restaurant; but if it doesn't come thru on that first meal... they don't go back)
For those with constructive replies, thank you, for those with the silly ameba level replies, go boil your heads.
I think a lot of people are misunderstanding me, I am not damming WAR in fact I praise them in getting this huge MMO out in just 2 years. I am just pointing out some problems: 1. The manual is poor 2. The in balances.
Mythic are aware of the balance problems and are trying to patch them, which is good, they still have a lot of work to do. As for quitting the game, where did I say that?
Running backwards is not a massive programming task nor to much to ask, strafing is strafing and does not work in a narrow tunnel (yes, believe it or not, I do know about strafing & I can read and push keyboard buttons just like you!).
Since writing my letter, I did change to a Black Orc and I am glad I did. The attention to detail in the Orc realm is huge. The PVE works better, thankfully the finger prints of Games Workshop is all over the place here, with Orc’s bathing in mud goblins cowering, great one-liners, its like a different game.
I stand by my original letter, the balances need to be fixed, I do not care if you are level 2000+, most people will try this for 1 month max and not get much beyond lv10, if they like it they will stay, if not they will move on and never come back. Mythic & EA are not idiots, they want feed back so they can improve things for people starting the game. Comments about not giving them feed back until you are lv20-30+ are ill found at best.
Do you believe a publisher or writer would what to know why you stopped reading their book at chapter one because it was so bad, or do you believe they would say, I am not listening to you because you did not read the whole book first?
My last words on this subject, I want WAR to work, I want new players to stay & I want Mythic to fix the balances so that they will stay. I hope even the ameba can understand that. I have the gift of freedom that I do not need to research forums to write a letter to a company that I bought a product from.
Wow, that story with the Black Orc seems very, very familiar. You aren't on Karak-Norn EU, are you? I've been the orc in that situation a couple of times recently.
The current class mix in T1 (mostly tanks with a few healers and mdps) is heaven for a Black Orc. The opposing tanks can't take him out quickly due to his self-heal, and the mdps don't have their armour-break attacks yet, so aren't that threatening either. As long as the (shield-using) BO makes sure to go for the ranged guys first (Bright Wiz in particular) and keep his shield facing most of his attackers, he has the run of the field. It isn't normal though, just the perfect environment for the class. Given a normal class mix that guy isn't so strong (though tanks are quite good in T1).
And if people were dropping to him that fast it's likely one of the destro ranged was assist training off of him. I know people like to do that with my BO at the moment.
In short, give it a chance. The current mess in T1 is not the way the rest of the game shapes up (or even how T1 normally is). Though the melee-heavy nature makes the battles feel much more exciting than the mexican standoffs from pre-patch. Hopefully it'll settle to a happy medium.
Wow, this is bad.
First let me address the balance issue for you. If you look at any mmo, ANY, balance is always an issue. So please don't complain about it here.
Second, the BO is a good class, OP maybe, but when compared to squishy order, but good players,not really. Before making this assumption try actually playing the game out. Granted first experience is always a must be good situation, but players hopefully are smart ennough to not jump to such a conclusion. If they are not smart enough, then I hope they quit cause to me that is one less ignorant player
I hope you never actually sent this letter, that woud be very sad
P.S SM, with a 2 hander....well my SM with 2 hander has a good time with these BO's. Thats just my experience though.
Enjoy : )
I understand your concerns, but you are just "t1 " a beginner. In this tier most of the players never focus on items but level . Gear is not very important in WAR but this doesnt mean you can fight naked and level 1 gray = naked, against level 6 uncommon. There are balance issues in WAR but thats not a big problem, nearly all mmos have those issues . Most encouraging thing in WAR is they re balancing classes in every patch, Mythic is working hard. But remember every class has its' antidote you may never kill some classes 1vs 1 .
Obviously, if the game doesn't hook you at T1, then you are never going to bother to get to T4. So the arguement that characters are better balanced at higher levels doesn't hold too well. I have enjoyed pwned witch hunters with my Shamam on T1 and T2 and suddenly they're handing my bum in a bag in T3; so I can understand flustration when there is a big difference in performance over ranks. Having said that, there was a rank 8 Shadow warrior seriously kicking butt in T1 scenariors yesterday (I suspect that having gear is a major factor at low level, as most are running around half naked, and that's not just the witch elves).
Obviously it takes time to smooth these things out a bit, on the whole I have found the game to be remarkably balanced; but although I didn't play a shadow warrior that much, it did seem to be a more challenging class. I agree that skirmisher class should be able to run about a bit faster (or at least have speed buffs), and don't flame me to tell me they have them, I admit that I haven't play that class much
I agree that the manual is pants, I bought the Prima guide which helps, but that's a bit flawed in its design too. As you say, a more advanced manual in PDF form is not going to cost much and could be updated as things change.
Some PvE is good, some is repetitive, again I suspect that as the game evolves, PvE content will improve; although they are undoubtable going to concentrait on oRvR for awhile as that is the games main selling feature (and its been overshadowed by better Scenarios).
The OP seems very perceptive to me, as the SW sucks in T1 - he also sucks in T2,3 and 4.
I know this because I have one. He couldn't beat any class in a 1on1, except himself...maybe.
In a group environment he can do a job, but sometimes people want to hunt and find solo battles. If this is what you want to do, don't roll a SW. Roll a WE - they can take on whole groups solo..
all i see is someone that is a crybaby ....its not killing the game for me i actually think it has made this game alot better....the guy that started this thread can go back to his preK MMORPG that is world of warcraft ...cause WOW is for nooblets who cant handle a real mans pvp game
why must you QQ so much ...