For those that have tried to compare SOE's loot card lottery system to product promotionals, I've copied the link to Tim Horton's well-known "roll up the rim to win" campaign. In SOE's game, you pay money for a chance to win loot cards that will enhance your SWG gameplay experience. In contrast to this, please note the conditions of an actual product promotional: http://www.rolluptherimtowin.com/en/prizes.php The first thing you'll notice is that the exact odds of winning each prize are provided. The second thing you'll notice if you click on the rules and redemption tab is that there is no purchase necessary to participate in the promotional. You can participate without giving Tim Horton's any money whatsoever. This is a product promotional. SOE's game of giving money to them online for the chance of winning a loot card that will enhance your gameplay is not at all similar in the way it is run. Failure to acknowledge this is very simply ignorance or a refusal to acknowledge reality. For those that claim product promotionals have different regulations in their country, it would be to your credit to acknowledge that in many North American jurisdictions, what SOE is doing is not a product promotional; it is quite simply an unregulated game of chance.
Note that a) There are no odds of winning each prize and b) you get a free card set to start with (just like the SWG TCG) but if you want more you must get new cards from other Weet-Bix packs, "6.Entry to this Promotion is via the website www.weet-bix.co.nz. Enter your unique codes from Stat Attack II collectable cards. Collectable cards can be found in specially marked Weet-Bix 1kg and 750g packs, and specially marked Weet-Bix Fruity and Weet-Bix Crunch packs, at participating stores. Follow the website prompts to play Stat Attack II."
All you've really proved is that NZ needs a major overhaul when it comes to gambling laws. Further, you are buying Cereal (an actual physical product and you are getting actual physical cards).
There is no point in any debate with you. You are the definition of the word "Fanboi" when it comes to SWG and despite the fact that every aspect of your defense has been completely eviscerated, you continue to try and advocate the illegal activities of SOE. The fact that this could potentially exploit children should be enough for you to see sense, but not at the expense of your mindless SOE fanboism apparently.
The good news is that I have received replies from two seperate lottery commissions who are not happy about this and and are investigating further. I dont want to give out specific details at this point but I will as I receive the results of their investigations.
Apparently enabling illegal, underage gambling doesnt sit well with the powers that be in the US and Canada.
S
Why does NZ need a major overhaul of our gambling laws? There is no public outcry over competitions such as the Weet-Bix example I provided and they're not seen as gambling. As for getting physical cards, those cards are simply vouchers you use to redeem your card on the website which you can use to play against others within the online card game.
It amuses me that you keep reverting to your "you're a fanboi" defense. Mostly because you were calling such arguments as weak a few days ago when you were being called that by others here and yet here you are, doing the exact same thing you were critiscing them for.
You're right in a way though, this is a pointless argument. It seems unlikely you're going to understand that these kind of promotions are quite normal, quite legal and quite accepted in other countries around the world. Don't bother trying to convince me that my country and others like it are "worse off" for it because it's just as unlikely that I'll take any notice of that too
The TCG is not a promotion. You just keep dancing around the obvious because you are incapable of seeing SOE/SWG in a bad light. Everyone knows that about you, here and on the official forums (where SOE are continuously deleting any thread that makes light of this in short order), why could that be I wonder?
Im glad you're amused, because I can assure you that the powers that be are not. Oh, and I could care less what you "take notice of". While I applaud you for helping new players (and returning players), I disregard about 80% of what you say as mindless "fanboism" (which it is).
I think its best if we leave it there as until I get clarification, there isn't much else to say.
"Gambling is legal under US federal law, but the states are free to regulate or prohibit it. If state-run lotteries are included, almost every state can be said to allow some form of gambling. However, casino-style gambling is much less widespread. Nevada is the only state where casino-style gambling is legal statewide, although the state and local governments both impose licensing and zoning restrictions. All other states that allow casino-style gambling restrict it to small geographic areas (e.g., Atlantic City, New Jersey or Tunica, Mississippi) or to Native Americanreservations (some of which are conveniently located in or near large cities). As sovereign nations, Native American tribes have used legal protection to open casinos, which has been a contentious political issue in California and other states. In some states, casinos are restricted to "riverboats", large multistory barges that more often than not are permanently moored in a body of water. One notable exception to US policy is in the area of online gambling. The Federal Wire Act of 1961 outlawed interstate wagering on sports but did not address other forms of gambling and has been the subject of court challenges. The Unlawful Internet Gambling Enforcement Act of 2006 (part of the SAFE Port Act) did not specifically prohibit online gambling; instead, it outlawed financial transactions involving online gambling service providers. Offshore gambling providers reacted by shutting down their services for US customers."
good luck on your crusade, you will have to prove kids are buying these cards (didn't know small children had jobs) and if its parents buying them the cards then its the parents responsibility and if adults are blowing their cash on this then its their own dumbass fault. Should the government protect allt he stupid people from themselves nah i don't think so. When these agencies talk to these companies high priced lawyers then they will pretty much just sweep it up under the rug and forget about it.
Its not a crusade, and if they tell me its legal, I won't pursue it (JFYI, that's not the feedback I am getting at the moment, especially not from the US/Canada).
Conversely, just because you have learned how to copy and paste, you'll forgive me if I don't take your word for anything.
Whats the difference between these cards and WoW, Star Trek, Magic the Gathering and all those cards games where you buy loads of packs hoping to get that rare one? Or is there something different with this SWG type?
I understand the 'gambling problem' but I also think that responsiblity for oneself is fading fast in this world. It's always someone else fault and that is creating a very cynical society.
Whats the difference between these cards and WoW, Star Trek, Magic the Gathering and all those cards games where you buy loads of packs hoping to get that rare one? Or is there something different with this SWG type?
I understand the 'gambling problem' but I also think that responsiblity for oneself is fading fast in this world. It's always someone else fault and that is creating a very cynical society.
The differences have been elaborated on several times within this thread.
"Gambling is legal under US federal law, but the states are free to regulate or prohibit it. If state-run lotteries are included, almost every state can be said to allow some form of gambling. However, casino-style gambling is much less widespread. Nevada is the only state where casino-style gambling is legal statewide, although the state and local governments both impose licensing and zoning restrictions. All other states that allow casino-style gambling restrict it to small geographic areas (e.g., Atlantic City, New Jersey or Tunica, Mississippi) or to Native Americanreservations (some of which are conveniently located in or near large cities). As sovereign nations, Native American tribes have used legal protection to open casinos, which has been a contentious political issue in California and other states. In some states, casinos are restricted to "riverboats", large multistory barges that more often than not are permanently moored in a body of water. One notable exception to US policy is in the area of online gambling. The Federal Wire Act of 1961 outlawed interstate wagering on sports but did not address other forms of gambling and has been the subject of court challenges. The Unlawful Internet Gambling Enforcement Act of 2006 (part of the SAFE Port Act) did not specifically prohibit online gambling; instead, it outlawed financial transactions involving online gambling service providers. Offshore gambling providers reacted by shutting down their services for US customers."
good luck on your crusade, you will have to prove kids are buying these cards (didn't know small children had jobs) and if its parents buying them the cards then its the parents responsibility and if adults are blowing their cash on this then its their own dumbass fault. Should the government protect allt he stupid people from themselves nah i don't think so. When these agencies talk to these companies high priced lawyers then they will pretty much just sweep it up under the rug and forget about it.
Its not a crusade, and if they tell me its legal, I won't pursue it (JFYI, that's not the feedback I am getting at the moment, especially not from the US/Canada).
Conversely, just because you have learned how to copy and paste, you'll forgive me if I don't take your word for anything.
S
Hell i'm interested to see what they tell you, it will effect alot of TCG's out there as for your feedback well i agree we should wait and see what they tell you because i'm sure you over exagerated things to them, so i'm glad they will call up these companies themselves.
"The great thing about human language is that it prevents us from sticking to the matter at hand." - Lewis Thomas
Whats the difference between these cards and WoW, Star Trek, Magic the Gathering and all those cards games where you buy loads of packs hoping to get that rare one? Or is there something different with this SWG type?
I understand the 'gambling problem' but I also think that responsiblity for oneself is fading fast in this world. It's always someone else fault and that is creating a very cynical society.
there is no difference they just desperatly want there to be some.
"The great thing about human language is that it prevents us from sticking to the matter at hand." - Lewis Thomas
"Gambling is legal under US federal law, but the states are free to regulate or prohibit it. If state-run lotteries are included, almost every state can be said to allow some form of gambling. However, casino-style gambling is much less widespread. Nevada is the only state where casino-style gambling is legal statewide, although the state and local governments both impose licensing and zoning restrictions. All other states that allow casino-style gambling restrict it to small geographic areas (e.g., Atlantic City, New Jersey or Tunica, Mississippi) or to Native Americanreservations (some of which are conveniently located in or near large cities). As sovereign nations, Native American tribes have used legal protection to open casinos, which has been a contentious political issue in California and other states. In some states, casinos are restricted to "riverboats", large multistory barges that more often than not are permanently moored in a body of water. One notable exception to US policy is in the area of online gambling. The Federal Wire Act of 1961 outlawed interstate wagering on sports but did not address other forms of gambling and has been the subject of court challenges. The Unlawful Internet Gambling Enforcement Act of 2006 (part of the SAFE Port Act) did not specifically prohibit online gambling; instead, it outlawed financial transactions involving online gambling service providers. Offshore gambling providers reacted by shutting down their services for US customers."
good luck on your crusade, you will have to prove kids are buying these cards (didn't know small children had jobs) and if its parents buying them the cards then its the parents responsibility and if adults are blowing their cash on this then its their own dumbass fault. Should the government protect allt he stupid people from themselves nah i don't think so. When these agencies talk to these companies high priced lawyers then they will pretty much just sweep it up under the rug and forget about it.
Its not a crusade, and if they tell me its legal, I won't pursue it (JFYI, that's not the feedback I am getting at the moment, especially not from the US/Canada).
Conversely, just because you have learned how to copy and paste, you'll forgive me if I don't take your word for anything.
S
Hell i'm interested to see what they tell you, it will effect alot of TCG's out there as for your feedback well i agree we should wait and see what they tell you because i'm sure you over exagerated things to them, so i'm glad they will call up these companies themselves.
Whats the difference between these cards and WoW, Star Trek, Magic the Gathering and all those cards games where you buy loads of packs hoping to get that rare one? Or is there something different with this SWG type?
I understand the 'gambling problem' but I also think that responsiblity for oneself is fading fast in this world. It's always someone else fault and that is creating a very cynical society.
there is no difference they just desperatly want there to be some.
You're just desperately intent on trolling this thread with your inconsequential, one line responses. The differences have been outlined numerous times. It's a shame you lack the ability to read and/or comprehend them.
"Gambling is legal under US federal law, but the states are free to regulate or prohibit it. If state-run lotteries are included, almost every state can be said to allow some form of gambling. However, casino-style gambling is much less widespread. Nevada is the only state where casino-style gambling is legal statewide, although the state and local governments both impose licensing and zoning restrictions. All other states that allow casino-style gambling restrict it to small geographic areas (e.g., Atlantic City, New Jersey or Tunica, Mississippi) or to Native Americanreservations (some of which are conveniently located in or near large cities). As sovereign nations, Native American tribes have used legal protection to open casinos, which has been a contentious political issue in California and other states. In some states, casinos are restricted to "riverboats", large multistory barges that more often than not are permanently moored in a body of water. One notable exception to US policy is in the area of online gambling. The Federal Wire Act of 1961 outlawed interstate wagering on sports but did not address other forms of gambling and has been the subject of court challenges. The Unlawful Internet Gambling Enforcement Act of 2006 (part of the SAFE Port Act) did not specifically prohibit online gambling; instead, it outlawed financial transactions involving online gambling service providers. Offshore gambling providers reacted by shutting down their services for US customers."
good luck on your crusade, you will have to prove kids are buying these cards (didn't know small children had jobs) and if its parents buying them the cards then its the parents responsibility and if adults are blowing their cash on this then its their own dumbass fault. Should the government protect allt he stupid people from themselves nah i don't think so. When these agencies talk to these companies high priced lawyers then they will pretty much just sweep it up under the rug and forget about it.
Its not a crusade, and if they tell me its legal, I won't pursue it (JFYI, that's not the feedback I am getting at the moment, especially not from the US/Canada).
Conversely, just because you have learned how to copy and paste, you'll forgive me if I don't take your word for anything.
S
Hell i'm interested to see what they tell you, it will effect alot of TCG's out there as for your feedback well i agree we should wait and see what they tell you because i'm sure you over exagerated things to them, so i'm glad they will call up these companies themselves.
You're a Psychic now?
Stop trolling.
S
nobody's trolling, your over exaggerating things on these forums, i'm pretty sure it carried over to your conversation to those agencies, and it is a crusade, good luck with that.
"The great thing about human language is that it prevents us from sticking to the matter at hand." - Lewis Thomas
"Gambling is legal under US federal law, but the states are free to regulate or prohibit it. If state-run lotteries are included, almost every state can be said to allow some form of gambling. However, casino-style gambling is much less widespread. Nevada is the only state where casino-style gambling is legal statewide, although the state and local governments both impose licensing and zoning restrictions. All other states that allow casino-style gambling restrict it to small geographic areas (e.g., Atlantic City, New Jersey or Tunica, Mississippi) or to Native Americanreservations (some of which are conveniently located in or near large cities). As sovereign nations, Native American tribes have used legal protection to open casinos, which has been a contentious political issue in California and other states. In some states, casinos are restricted to "riverboats", large multistory barges that more often than not are permanently moored in a body of water. One notable exception to US policy is in the area of online gambling. The Federal Wire Act of 1961 outlawed interstate wagering on sports but did not address other forms of gambling and has been the subject of court challenges. The Unlawful Internet Gambling Enforcement Act of 2006 (part of the SAFE Port Act) did not specifically prohibit online gambling; instead, it outlawed financial transactions involving online gambling service providers. Offshore gambling providers reacted by shutting down their services for US customers."
good luck on your crusade, you will have to prove kids are buying these cards (didn't know small children had jobs) and if its parents buying them the cards then its the parents responsibility and if adults are blowing their cash on this then its their own dumbass fault. Should the government protect allt he stupid people from themselves nah i don't think so. When these agencies talk to these companies high priced lawyers then they will pretty much just sweep it up under the rug and forget about it.
Its not a crusade, and if they tell me its legal, I won't pursue it (JFYI, that's not the feedback I am getting at the moment, especially not from the US/Canada).
Conversely, just because you have learned how to copy and paste, you'll forgive me if I don't take your word for anything.
S
Hell i'm interested to see what they tell you, it will effect alot of TCG's out there as for your feedback well i agree we should wait and see what they tell you because i'm sure you over exagerated things to them, so i'm glad they will call up these companies themselves.
You're a Psychic now?
Stop trolling.
S
nobody's trolling, your over exaggerating things on these forums, i'm pretty sure it carried over to your conversation to those agencies, and it is a crusade, good luck with that.
Whats the difference between these cards and WoW, Star Trek, Magic the Gathering and all those cards games where you buy loads of packs hoping to get that rare one? Or is there something different with this SWG type?
I understand the 'gambling problem' but I also think that responsiblity for oneself is fading fast in this world. It's always someone else fault and that is creating a very cynical society.
there is no difference they just desperatly want there to be some.
You're just desperately intent on trolling this thread with your inconsequential, one line responses. The differences have been outlined numerous times. It's a shame you lack the ability to read and/or comprehend them.
S
Wow, I asked one question.
I have read five pages of this forum thread, and all i have read is people arguing over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over again about whether this is gambling or not. You're not going to convince people on the internet if they disagree from the beginning. I have no desire to read more posts on that subject. You guys are in the US, a trial by case system, therefore what other people are doing and has a case like this happened before is the real issue, not whether is gambling or not, that is almost irrelevant.
"Gambling is legal under US federal law, but the states are free to regulate or prohibit it. If state-run lotteries are included, almost every state can be said to allow some form of gambling. However, casino-style gambling is much less widespread. Nevada is the only state where casino-style gambling is legal statewide, although the state and local governments both impose licensing and zoning restrictions. All other states that allow casino-style gambling restrict it to small geographic areas (e.g., Atlantic City, New Jersey or Tunica, Mississippi) or to Native Americanreservations (some of which are conveniently located in or near large cities). As sovereign nations, Native American tribes have used legal protection to open casinos, which has been a contentious political issue in California and other states. In some states, casinos are restricted to "riverboats", large multistory barges that more often than not are permanently moored in a body of water. One notable exception to US policy is in the area of online gambling. The Federal Wire Act of 1961 outlawed interstate wagering on sports but did not address other forms of gambling and has been the subject of court challenges. The Unlawful Internet Gambling Enforcement Act of 2006 (part of the SAFE Port Act) did not specifically prohibit online gambling; instead, it outlawed financial transactions involving online gambling service providers. Offshore gambling providers reacted by shutting down their services for US customers."
good luck on your crusade, you will have to prove kids are buying these cards (didn't know small children had jobs) and if its parents buying them the cards then its the parents responsibility and if adults are blowing their cash on this then its their own dumbass fault. Should the government protect allt he stupid people from themselves nah i don't think so. When these agencies talk to these companies high priced lawyers then they will pretty much just sweep it up under the rug and forget about it.
Its not a crusade, and if they tell me its legal, I won't pursue it (JFYI, that's not the feedback I am getting at the moment, especially not from the US/Canada).
Conversely, just because you have learned how to copy and paste, you'll forgive me if I don't take your word for anything.
S
Hell i'm interested to see what they tell you, it will effect alot of TCG's out there as for your feedback well i agree we should wait and see what they tell you because i'm sure you over exagerated things to them, so i'm glad they will call up these companies themselves.
You're a Psychic now?
Stop trolling.
S
nobody's trolling, your over exaggerating things on these forums, i'm pretty sure it carried over to your conversation to those agencies, and it is a crusade, good luck with that.
/ignore 4tw.
Bye.
haha my feelings are hurt oh noes'
anyways i found some interesting stuff
Is the Pokemon Trading Card Game a form of gambling?
In September 1999 a lawsuit was filed against Nintendo et. al. alleging that the Pokemon TCG "qualifies as a gambling enterprise because of three elements: kids must 'pay to play' by buying packets of Pokemon cards; they can 'win' rare prize cards, which are intrinsically more valuable than other Pokemon cards; and there is an element of chance because the higher value cards are inserted randomly into Pokemon packets." I am not a judge so I don't know where the law stands, but it sounds like the lawsuit was hatched by some people just trying to cash in on the whole Pokemon craze. Last I heard, this lawsuit was thrown out of court.
"The great thing about human language is that it prevents us from sticking to the matter at hand." - Lewis Thomas
Whats the difference between these cards and WoW, Star Trek, Magic the Gathering and all those cards games where you buy loads of packs hoping to get that rare one? Or is there something different with this SWG type?
I understand the 'gambling problem' but I also think that responsiblity for oneself is fading fast in this world. It's always someone else fault and that is creating a very cynical society.
there is no difference they just desperatly want there to be some.
You're just desperately intent on trolling this thread with your inconsequential, one line responses. The differences have been outlined numerous times. It's a shame you lack the ability to read and/or comprehend them.
S
Wow, I asked one question.
I have read five pages of this forum thread, and all i have read is people arguing over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over again about whether this is gambling or not. You're not going to convince people on the internet if they disagree from the beginning. I have no desire to read more posts on that subject. You guys are in the US, a trial by case system, therefore what other people are doing is the real issue, not whether is gambling or not, that is almost irrelevant.
He's on a crusade, acting like a madman not sure why either, seems he didn't get a card he wanted from the packs he probably bought.
He can't handle people not seeing things his way and would rather label them a troll and ignore them than actually think about what he is blabbering, fact is there is no difference and he can't show it, he just says read this and that and the fact is i read it all and there is no difference, maybe one day he will grow up and realise this.
"The great thing about human language is that it prevents us from sticking to the matter at hand." - Lewis Thomas
Everyone who thinks that the TCG is gambling might well we correct...or may not be correct.
At the end of the day, people that gamble are greedy individuals that, deserve everything that comes to them...be that a massive cash win, an exotic Holiday, a toaster...or even massive debt.
Its is nobody's fault but that of the person that is gambling.
YOU have a choice to gamble or not, no one forces you to.
P.s. that shit about companies taking advantage of people is just bollox, your a grown adult ffs, make a bloody decision based on your limits and stick to it.
Whats the difference between these cards and WoW, Star Trek, Magic the Gathering and all those cards games where you buy loads of packs hoping to get that rare one? Or is there something different with this SWG type?
I understand the 'gambling problem' but I also think that responsiblity for oneself is fading fast in this world. It's always someone else fault and that is creating a very cynical society.
The differences have been elaborated on several times within this thread.
S
Yes they have been pointed out, but the thread is getting long, so I don't mind a brief review:
In other card games, you are purchasing packs of cards that may have a rare card for the actual game you are playing. In the SOE TCG card game, people are purchasing card packs not to get cards for the actual card game. They are hoping to get a rare item for use in another entertainment service entirely. They are hoping to win something that will enhance their experience of another online game that they are already paying a subscription fee to enjoy. That's one main difference.
Another important difference, is that with most TCG's, the cards you buy, you actually own. The rare cards are for the TCG itself (point 1), and have a market value that you now have ownership of (point 2).
Hopefully these difference are clear; I think they're important.
Now, as for product promotionals in North America. The important differences are that in legal promotionals in North American, odds of winning must be provided, and a no purchase necessary clause must be included in the terms.
Hopefully these differences are also clear; I think they're important too.
I certainly don't claim to be an expert on product promotionals in New Zealand. I do know how they work here in Canada. I'm also aware that SOE and most of its customers for SWG are in North America. It stands to reason, therefore, that SOE should operate it's online card game in a manner that respects the relevant laws and practices in Canada and the United States. Apparently, they don't, and I think that's a problem.
By the way, no one wants to "spoil the fun" for anyone here. People just want others (friends in particular) to know what they're getting into when they take this online gamble. Gambling can hook people even when they know what they're getting into. They are more likely to be hooked, however, if they're drawn into a powerful, intermittent reinforcement strategy, that motivates spending, outside of their awareness.
I'm a psychology professor, and I'm actually lecturing today on intermittent reinforcement. Here's an excerpt from today's notes:
"What is partial (intermittent) reinforcement? The behaviour is sometimes reinforced, sometimes not. This pattern produces the greatest resistance to extinction. An example of this is the slot machine. You never know when you might get the reward so you keep trying, and trying, and trying."
This is the mechanism attached to the loot cards. You never know when you might get one, so you are motivated to engage in a desired behaviour more often. In this case, the desired behaviour is purchasing TCG card packs. Again, please recognize that people are not trying for rare cards that are actually a part of the TCG. Their spending is being reinforced (intentionally it would seem) by the intermittent reinforcement of loot cards that enhance their experience in SWG, an entertainment service that they are already subscribed too.
Also, the more the "loot" affects their SWG experience, the more likely they are to get hooked into gambling for loot cards. The stronger the buffs, the faster the vehicles, the more it becomes necessary to gamble in order to remain competitive in the online game. If your character is not competitive, your subscription fee is wasted, as is all of you ingame progress to date.
Also, as has been pointed out already, the "free" cards are not at all free. You receive a small number of cards as part of your subscription fee. To get the new buffs, faster vehicles etc., you may choose to pay your subscription fee and wait for the rare loot to drop. As others get the random drops, however, you are likely to fall behind. This is especially true if others gamble for the rare drops and win. The effect of the cards you get as part of your subscription fee is actually to motivate you to gamble to keep up with your friends. If a rival guild is all using loot cards buffs and driving podracers for example, how are you going to keep up with them? There's only one way, pay your money, spin the wheel, and hope you get lucky. The more powerful the buffs, the faster the vehicles, the more powerful the incentive to pay and spin.
If people think that SOE is unware of how their game differs from other TCGs and product promotionals, I think you're naive. I don't mean that critically; it's just an observation. There are a number of powerful spending motivators, including (but not limited to) a gambling mechanic that has one goal in mind: to get your money, and offer you very little (if anything) in return.
Whats the difference between these cards and WoW, Star Trek, Magic the Gathering and all those cards games where you buy loads of packs hoping to get that rare one? Or is there something different with this SWG type?
I understand the 'gambling problem' but I also think that responsiblity for oneself is fading fast in this world. It's always someone else fault and that is creating a very cynical society.
The differences have been elaborated on several times within this thread.
S
Yes they have been pointed out, but the thread is getting long, so I don't mind a brief review:
In other card games, you are purchasing packs of cards that may have a rare card for the actual game you are playing. In the SOE TCG card game, people are purchasing card packs not to get cards for the actual card game. They are hoping to get a rare item for use in another entertainment service entirely. They are hoping to win something that will enhance their experience of another online game that they are already paying a subscription fee to enjoy. That's one main difference.
Okay i'm kinda tired of people trying to make them seem different when they aren't, yes people are buying cards for rare items in the swg TCG and some of them may just play the card game, we don't know this. Lets use WoW now, people are buying the cards for loot items in the game, some play it most do not, all my friends that are playing buy the cards for loot items and don't play the game, it is the same. Other TCG's out there may not have a game to to take items too but they still have rare cards people fiend over and will spend all their life savings trying to get them cards, i know this, i've seen people do it and i told them to stop being stupid.
Another important difference, is that with most TCG's, the cards you buy, you actually own. The rare cards are for the TCG itself (point 1), and have a market value that you now have ownership of (point 2).
This isn't different than any other TCG out there, as i said i'm pretty sure i can run to my local walmart and buy some cards that i will physically own right now, as all the cards i own. only place i have seen cards that you buy that you don't have a physical item to own is the Magic the Gathering Online game.
Hopefully these difference are clear; I think they're important.
Now, as for product promotionals in North America. The important differences are that in legal promotionals in North American, odds of winning must be provided, and a no purchase necessary clause must be included in the terms.
Hopefully these differences are also clear; I think they're important too.
I certainly don't claim to be an expert on product promotionals in New Zealand. I do know how they work here in Canada. I'm also aware that SOE and most of its customers for SWG are in North America. It stands to reason, therefore, that SOE should operate it's online card game in a manner that respects the relevant laws and practices in Canada and the United States. Apparently, they don't, and I think that's a problem.
By the way, no one wants to "spoil the fun" for anyone here. People just want others (friends in particular) to know what they're getting into when they take this online gamble. Gambling can hook people even when they know what they're getting into. They are more likely to be hooked, however, if they're drawn into a powerful, intermittent reinforcement strategy, that motivates spending, outside of their awareness.
I'm a psychology professor, and I'm actually lecturing today on intermittent reinforcement. Here's an excerpt from today's notes:
"What is partial (intermittent) reinforcement? The behaviour is sometimes reinforced, sometimes not. This pattern produces the greatest resistance to extinction. An example of this is the slot machine. You never know when you might get the reward so you keep trying, and trying, and trying."
This is the mechanism attached to the loot cards. You never know when you might get one, so you are motivated to engage in a desired behaviour more often. In this case, the desired behaviour is purchasing TCG card packs. Again, please recognize that people are not trying for rare cards that are actually a part of the TCG. Their spending is being reinforced (intentionally it would seem) by the intermittent reinforcement of loot cards that enhance their experience in SWG, and entertainment service that they are already subscribed too. Also, the more the "loot" affects their SWG experience, the more likely they are to get hooked into gambling for loot cards. The stronger the buffs, the faster the vehicles, the more it becomes necessary to gamble in order to remain competitive in the online game. If your character is not competitive, your subscription fee is wasted, as is all of you ingame progress to date.
there is no difference, sorry no matter how much you want there to be one there isn't one. I'm sorry these people can't be responsible for what they do with their lives but should we regulate everything because some people can't be more responsible?
Is it gambling, i'll agree to it, lots of things are gambling, hell parents buying their kids pokemon cards and letting them play in tournaments is gambling, why hasn't anything been done about this? but hell its not like we don't have tons of regulations on things already, so why not add some more.
just so you know blizzard even allows players to sell their loot cards for gold from other players, i've seen them advertised in trade and so far its been all legit.
basically i get what you are saying but what you are saying goes towards all TCG's, hell the WoW packs even have points in them to buy game items off of upperdecks site, like tabards and other things.
Edit: i'll leave this debate were it is now, if people really want to see it as different i won't try and change thier mind, but i've been with tcg's forever and really its all the same, but i'm done with it, we'll just see what happens, can't wait to hear what they tell all of you who called officials to see what they think about it.
"The great thing about human language is that it prevents us from sticking to the matter at hand." - Lewis Thomas
Whats the difference between these cards and WoW, Star Trek, Magic the Gathering and all those cards games where you buy loads of packs hoping to get that rare one? Or is there something different with this SWG type?
I understand the 'gambling problem' but I also think that responsiblity for oneself is fading fast in this world. It's always someone else fault and that is creating a very cynical society.
The differences have been elaborated on several times within this thread.
S
Yes they have been pointed out, but the thread is getting long, so I don't mind a brief review:
In other card games, you are purchasing packs of cards that may have a rare card for the actual game you are playing. In the SOE TCG card game, people are purchasing card packs not to get cards for the actual card game. They are hoping to get a rare item for use in another entertainment service entirely. They are hoping to win something that will enhance their experience of another online game that they are already paying a subscription fee to enjoy. That's one main difference.
Okay i'm kinda tired of people trying to make them seem different when they aren't, yes people are buying cards for rare items in the swg TCG and some of them may just play the card game, we don't know this. Lets use WoW now, people are buying the cards for loot items in the game, some play it most do not, all my friends that are playing buy the cards for loot items and don't play the game, it is the same. Other TCG's out there may not have a game to to take items too but they still have rare cards people fiend over and will spend all their life savings trying to get them cards, i know this, i've seen people do it and i told them to stop being stupid.
Another important difference, is that with most TCG's, the cards you buy, you actually own. The rare cards are for the TCG itself (point 1), and have a market value that you now have ownership of (point 2).
This isn't different than any other TCG out there, as i said i'm pretty sure i can run to my local walmart and buy some cards that i will physically own right now, as all the cards i own. only place i have seen cards that you buy that you don't have a physical item to own is the Magic the Gathering Online game.
Hopefully these difference are clear; I think they're important.
Now, as for product promotionals in North America. The important differences are that in legal promotionals in North American, odds of winning must be provided, and a no purchase necessary clause must be included in the terms.
Hopefully these differences are also clear; I think they're important too.
I certainly don't claim to be an expert on product promotionals in New Zealand. I do know how they work here in Canada. I'm also aware that SOE and most of its customers for SWG are in North America. It stands to reason, therefore, that SOE should operate it's online card game in a manner that respects the relevant laws and practices in Canada and the United States. Apparently, they don't, and I think that's a problem.
By the way, no one wants to "spoil the fun" for anyone here. People just want others (friends in particular) to know what they're getting into when they take this online gamble. Gambling can hook people even when they know what they're getting into. They are more likely to be hooked, however, if they're drawn into a powerful, intermittent reinforcement strategy, that motivates spending, outside of their awareness.
I'm a psychology professor, and I'm actually lecturing today on intermittent reinforcement. Here's an excerpt from today's notes:
"What is partial (intermittent) reinforcement? The behaviour is sometimes reinforced, sometimes not. This pattern produces the greatest resistance to extinction. An example of this is the slot machine. You never know when you might get the reward so you keep trying, and trying, and trying."
This is the mechanism attached to the loot cards. You never know when you might get one, so you are motivated to engage in a desired behaviour more often. In this case, the desired behaviour is purchasing TCG card packs. Again, please recognize that people are not trying for rare cards that are actually a part of the TCG. Their spending is being reinforced (intentionally it would seem) by the intermittent reinforcement of loot cards that enhance their experience in SWG, and entertainment service that they are already subscribed too. Also, the more the "loot" affects their SWG experience, the more likely they are to get hooked into gambling for loot cards. The stronger the buffs, the faster the vehicles, the more it becomes necessary to gamble in order to remain competitive in the online game. If your character is not competitive, your subscription fee is wasted, as is all of you ingame progress to date.
there is no difference, sorry no matter how much you want there to be one there isn't one. I'm sorry these people can't be responsible for what they do with their lives but should we regulate everything because some people can't be more responsible?
Is it gambling, i'll agree to it, lots of things are gambling, hell parents buying their kids pokemon cards and letting them play in tournaments is gambling, why hasn't anything been done about this? but hell its not like we don't have tons of regulations on things already, so why not add some more.
just so you know blizzard even allows players to sell their loot cards for gold from other players, i've seen them advertised in trade and so far its been all legit.
basically i get what you are saying but what you are saying goes towards all TCG's, hell the WoW packs even have points in them to buy game items off of upperdecks site, like tabards and other things.
Edit: i'll leave this debate were it is now, if people really want to see it as different i won't try and change thier mind, but i've been with tcg's forever and really its all the same, but i'm done with it, we'll just see what happens, can't wait to hear what they tell all of you who called officials to see what they think about it.
Just so you know. I hear what you're saying. It sounds like there are now two kinds of TCGs. Some have you trying to get rare cards that are actually part of the card game itself. Others seem to imbed other rewards in them that people then gamble for.
I have no problem with the first category of TCGs at all, especially when you own the rare cards that you purchase, and they are a part of the actual game.
I'm suggesting that when you attach other rewards to card purchasing (outside the card game itself) you need to make sure this follows product promotional regulations, and does not become an unregulated game of chance.
Also, I had another thought on the cards you get as part of your subscription. The longer you go paying your sub, and getting cards that you think are junk, the more likely you are to start buying booster packs.
If I was going to try to hook people into compulsive spending habits outside of their awareness, this is how I would do it--it's textbook. I just wouldn't do it. I guess because I like people more than money (shrug). Also, I'm in a service industy. I teach. People know exactly what they're getting from me before they pay their fee (nothing wrong with making money via a reasonable fee for an honest service). There are no hidden agendas, and no hidden mechanisms designed to promote complusive spending. That's very intentional, as I'm the head of the department. I think service providers can be honest with you up front about services you pay for, or they can be dishonest and manipulative. SOE's approach to the loot cards resembles the latter philosophy from my perspective. I'm sure they're not alone in this approach, but that doesn't make it a welcome one from a customer's point of view.
Just because it's not advertised as gambling doesn't mean that it isn't. Advertised gambling is usually in hopes of winning money - and there enlies the difference. By buying these cards they don't want to win cash but prizes instead. Say I were to use a crane machine to try and win a stuffed animal - even though a 5 year old could play it, is it a gamble that you might not win? (Yes, some machines do let you play until you win, but not all.) The point is, the company is not to blame for this at all. They said "Hey, there's a chance you can get these special cards by buying our product - but no guarentee." That is the biggest warning of all is saying that these cards are rare and that you in general have to be lucky to win them.
For those that have tried to compare SOE's loot card lottery system to product promotionals, I've copied the link to Tim Horton's well-known "roll up the rim to win" campaign. In SOE's game, you pay money for a chance to win loot cards that will enhance your SWG gameplay experience. In contrast to this, please note the conditions of an actual product promotional: http://www.rolluptherimtowin.com/en/prizes.php The first thing you'll notice is that the exact odds of winning each prize are provided. The second thing you'll notice if you click on the rules and redemption tab is that there is no purchase necessary to participate in the promotional. You can participate without giving Tim Horton's any money whatsoever. This is a product promotional. SOE's game of giving money to them online for the chance of winning a loot card that will enhance your gameplay is not at all similar in the way it is run. Failure to acknowledge this is very simply ignorance or a refusal to acknowledge reality. For those that claim product promotionals have different regulations in their country, it would be to your credit to acknowledge that in many North American jurisdictions, what SOE is doing is not a product promotional; it is quite simply an unregulated game of chance.
Note that a) There are no odds of winning each prize and b) you get a free card set to start with (just like the SWG TCG) but if you want more you must get new cards from other Weet-Bix packs, "6.Entry to this Promotion is via the website www.weet-bix.co.nz. Enter your unique codes from Stat Attack II collectable cards. Collectable cards can be found in specially marked Weet-Bix 1kg and 750g packs, and specially marked Weet-Bix Fruity and Weet-Bix Crunch packs, at participating stores. Follow the website prompts to play Stat Attack II."
All you've really proved is that NZ needs a major overhaul when it comes to gambling laws. Further, you are buying Cereal (an actual physical product and you are getting actual physical cards).
There is no point in any debate with you. You are the definition of the word "Fanboi" when it comes to SWG and despite the fact that every aspect of your defense has been completely eviscerated, you continue to try and advocate the illegal activities of SOE. The fact that this could potentially exploit children should be enough for you to see sense, but not at the expense of your mindless SOE fanboism apparently.
The good news is that I have received replies from two seperate lottery commissions who are not happy about this and and are investigating further. I dont want to give out specific details at this point but I will as I receive the results of their investigations.
Apparently enabling illegal, underage gambling doesnt sit well with the powers that be in the US and Canada.
S
Why does NZ need a major overhaul of our gambling laws? There is no public outcry over competitions such as the Weet-Bix example I provided and they're not seen as gambling. As for getting physical cards, those cards are simply vouchers you use to redeem your card on the website which you can use to play against others within the online card game.
It amuses me that you keep reverting to your "you're a fanboi" defense. Mostly because you were calling such arguments as weak a few days ago when you were being called that by others here and yet here you are, doing the exact same thing you were critiscing them for.
You're right in a way though, this is a pointless argument. It seems unlikely you're going to understand that these kind of promotions are quite normal, quite legal and quite accepted in other countries around the world. Don't bother trying to convince me that my country and others like it are "worse off" for it because it's just as unlikely that I'll take any notice of that too
The TCG is not a promotion. You just keep dancing around the obvious because you are incapable of seeing SOE/SWG in a bad light. Everyone knows that about you, here and on the official forums (where SOE are continuously deleting any thread that makes light of this in short order), why could that be I wonder?
Im glad you're amused, because I can assure you that the powers that be are not. Oh, and I could care less what you "take notice of". While I applaud you for helping new players (and returning players), I disregard about 80% of what you say as mindless "fanboism" (which it is).
I think its best if we leave it there as until I get clarification, there isn't much else to say.
Regards,
S
And there you go, backing into your "you're a fanboi so there!" defensive corner
Just to clarify no, the TCG isn't a promotion but the loot cards are, however.
For those that have tried to compare SOE's loot card lottery system to product promotionals, I've copied the link to Tim Horton's well-known "roll up the rim to win" campaign. In SOE's game, you pay money for a chance to win loot cards that will enhance your SWG gameplay experience. In contrast to this, please note the conditions of an actual product promotional: http://www.rolluptherimtowin.com/en/prizes.php The first thing you'll notice is that the exact odds of winning each prize are provided. The second thing you'll notice if you click on the rules and redemption tab is that there is no purchase necessary to participate in the promotional. You can participate without giving Tim Horton's any money whatsoever. This is a product promotional. SOE's game of giving money to them online for the chance of winning a loot card that will enhance your gameplay is not at all similar in the way it is run. Failure to acknowledge this is very simply ignorance or a refusal to acknowledge reality. For those that claim product promotionals have different regulations in their country, it would be to your credit to acknowledge that in many North American jurisdictions, what SOE is doing is not a product promotional; it is quite simply an unregulated game of chance.
Note that a) There are no odds of winning each prize and b) you get a free card set to start with (just like the SWG TCG) but if you want more you must get new cards from other Weet-Bix packs, "6.Entry to this Promotion is via the website www.weet-bix.co.nz. Enter your unique codes from Stat Attack II collectable cards. Collectable cards can be found in specially marked Weet-Bix 1kg and 750g packs, and specially marked Weet-Bix Fruity and Weet-Bix Crunch packs, at participating stores. Follow the website prompts to play Stat Attack II."
All you've really proved is that NZ needs a major overhaul when it comes to gambling laws. Further, you are buying Cereal (an actual physical product and you are getting actual physical cards).
There is no point in any debate with you. You are the definition of the word "Fanboi" when it comes to SWG and despite the fact that every aspect of your defense has been completely eviscerated, you continue to try and advocate the illegal activities of SOE. The fact that this could potentially exploit children should be enough for you to see sense, but not at the expense of your mindless SOE fanboism apparently.
The good news is that I have received replies from two seperate lottery commissions who are not happy about this and and are investigating further. I dont want to give out specific details at this point but I will as I receive the results of their investigations.
Apparently enabling illegal, underage gambling doesnt sit well with the powers that be in the US and Canada.
S
Why does NZ need a major overhaul of our gambling laws? There is no public outcry over competitions such as the Weet-Bix example I provided and they're not seen as gambling. As for getting physical cards, those cards are simply vouchers you use to redeem your card on the website which you can use to play against others within the online card game.
It amuses me that you keep reverting to your "you're a fanboi" defense. Mostly because you were calling such arguments as weak a few days ago when you were being called that by others here and yet here you are, doing the exact same thing you were critiscing them for.
You're right in a way though, this is a pointless argument. It seems unlikely you're going to understand that these kind of promotions are quite normal, quite legal and quite accepted in other countries around the world. Don't bother trying to convince me that my country and others like it are "worse off" for it because it's just as unlikely that I'll take any notice of that too
The TCG is not a promotion. You just keep dancing around the obvious because you are incapable of seeing SOE/SWG in a bad light. Everyone knows that about you, here and on the official forums (where SOE are continuously deleting any thread that makes light of this in short order), why could that be I wonder?
Im glad you're amused, because I can assure you that the powers that be are not. Oh, and I could care less what you "take notice of". While I applaud you for helping new players (and returning players), I disregard about 80% of what you say as mindless "fanboism" (which it is).
I think its best if we leave it there as until I get clarification, there isn't much else to say.
Regards,
S
And there you go, backing into your "you're a fanboi so there!" defensive corner
Just to clarify no, the TCG isn't a promotion but the loot cards are, however.
No Obraik, it's what I, and everyone else here like to call "The large corner of fact". Its a corner that doesnt seem to exist in NZ.
The day I see you being objective about SWG/SOE, I'll retract that statement. Until then, you remain, the ultimate, unobjective, biased SWG Fanboi.
Considering you are already paying to play the game you should automaticly have full access to the game and i mean all items being Armor/Weapons/Mounts that is what you are paying the monthly fee for. But SOE had to take it a step further and sell cards with what it seems like a .01% chance of getting a loot card and it is a virtual card and not a physical card. Now people are compareing WoW TCG with this one from SOE how the f**k are you going to do that seriously? The WoW trading card game you are getting a physical card which is yours forever now with the SOE card it is a virtual item meaning it can be taken away anytime. Tell me how that compares if you are talking about what items you get then again WoW cards are nothing that really alters your game play but SOE cards are altering the game because you are aiming for a chance to get an in-game item Armor/Weapon/Mount that is superior to the current item you may or may not have WoW will give away a card that is not really needed.
This is more of a MEGA SCAM then a Gamble. Now i think SOE will lose a lot of money because people see their true faces and what they are all about and that is scamming their trusted customers. After hearing about this whole thing i pretty much said i will never play another SOE game because whats not to say they wont pull this kind of crap again. This is the only reason i refuse to play another SOE game because i truely think they will pull this kind of thing again.
For those that have tried to compare SOE's loot card lottery system to product promotionals, I've copied the link to Tim Horton's well-known "roll up the rim to win" campaign. In SOE's game, you pay money for a chance to win loot cards that will enhance your SWG gameplay experience. In contrast to this, please note the conditions of an actual product promotional: http://www.rolluptherimtowin.com/en/prizes.php The first thing you'll notice is that the exact odds of winning each prize are provided. The second thing you'll notice if you click on the rules and redemption tab is that there is no purchase necessary to participate in the promotional. You can participate without giving Tim Horton's any money whatsoever. This is a product promotional. SOE's game of giving money to them online for the chance of winning a loot card that will enhance your gameplay is not at all similar in the way it is run. Failure to acknowledge this is very simply ignorance or a refusal to acknowledge reality. For those that claim product promotionals have different regulations in their country, it would be to your credit to acknowledge that in many North American jurisdictions, what SOE is doing is not a product promotional; it is quite simply an unregulated game of chance.
Note that a) There are no odds of winning each prize and b) you get a free card set to start with (just like the SWG TCG) but if you want more you must get new cards from other Weet-Bix packs, "6.Entry to this Promotion is via the website www.weet-bix.co.nz. Enter your unique codes from Stat Attack II collectable cards. Collectable cards can be found in specially marked Weet-Bix 1kg and 750g packs, and specially marked Weet-Bix Fruity and Weet-Bix Crunch packs, at participating stores. Follow the website prompts to play Stat Attack II."
All you've really proved is that NZ needs a major overhaul when it comes to gambling laws. Further, you are buying Cereal (an actual physical product and you are getting actual physical cards).
There is no point in any debate with you. You are the definition of the word "Fanboi" when it comes to SWG and despite the fact that every aspect of your defense has been completely eviscerated, you continue to try and advocate the illegal activities of SOE. The fact that this could potentially exploit children should be enough for you to see sense, but not at the expense of your mindless SOE fanboism apparently.
The good news is that I have received replies from two seperate lottery commissions who are not happy about this and and are investigating further. I dont want to give out specific details at this point but I will as I receive the results of their investigations.
Apparently enabling illegal, underage gambling doesnt sit well with the powers that be in the US and Canada.
S
Why does NZ need a major overhaul of our gambling laws? There is no public outcry over competitions such as the Weet-Bix example I provided and they're not seen as gambling. As for getting physical cards, those cards are simply vouchers you use to redeem your card on the website which you can use to play against others within the online card game.
It amuses me that you keep reverting to your "you're a fanboi" defense. Mostly because you were calling such arguments as weak a few days ago when you were being called that by others here and yet here you are, doing the exact same thing you were critiscing them for.
You're right in a way though, this is a pointless argument. It seems unlikely you're going to understand that these kind of promotions are quite normal, quite legal and quite accepted in other countries around the world. Don't bother trying to convince me that my country and others like it are "worse off" for it because it's just as unlikely that I'll take any notice of that too
The TCG is not a promotion. You just keep dancing around the obvious because you are incapable of seeing SOE/SWG in a bad light. Everyone knows that about you, here and on the official forums (where SOE are continuously deleting any thread that makes light of this in short order), why could that be I wonder?
Im glad you're amused, because I can assure you that the powers that be are not. Oh, and I could care less what you "take notice of". While I applaud you for helping new players (and returning players), I disregard about 80% of what you say as mindless "fanboism" (which it is).
I think its best if we leave it there as until I get clarification, there isn't much else to say.
Regards,
S
And there you go, backing into your "you're a fanboi so there!" defensive corner
Just to clarify no, the TCG isn't a promotion but the loot cards are, however.
No Obraik, it's what I, and everyone else here like to call "The large corner of fact". Its a corner that doesnt seem to exist in NZ.
The day I see you being objective about SWG/SOE, I'll retract that statement. Until then, you remain, the ultimate, unobjective, biased SWG Fanboi.
Enjoy.
S
Actually, no it's not "everyone else". There are others here that have been disagreeing with your opinion but, of course, you dismiss their opinions as well simply because it doesn't suit your agenda...
I guess the US and Canadian lottery commissions need to get on Topps and Fleers ass then. Oh..and Wizards of the Coast....All of these companies have been exploiting the "rare" card trap...both on children and adults for a long while now. You're never guaranteed a rookie or a hologram or foil or Blackspawn of the Moors when you buy a pack of their cards. It's usually the motivator for purchase though and if you get one .....you can charge a butt-load of cash for it. Is this gambling?
You're talking about a function of the card game that rewards you with other functions of the card game, as opposed to using a function of the card game to reward someone with something totally unrelated.
It's like going to a carnival and wanting to ride the carousel, but you have to win a ticket playing the milk bottles game first. It's obvious that it's just a scam. However, nobody is going to complain if they are giving away stuffed animals, because stuffed animals aren't required to enjoy the rest of the carnival.
People wanting to play SWG shouldn't be punished for not wanting to pay for the TCG. People who play the TCG anyways aren't going to care either way, since the rewards are just a bonus.
Actually...I remember other prizes being offered in various trading card packs...this was the 80's though so i'll be damned if i remember ...lol. Imo....the loot cards are just like the stuffed animals at the carnival. It may seem cool to have one...but I don't need it to enjoy the game. That's why I can't quite see the great uproar over an issue that basically involves an act of freewill.
Once these card games and loot cards get tied closer and closer to RMT model, the further towards black in the "gray area" of being in effect a private lottery and interstate online gambling it becomes.
You see, introduce RMT and suddenly there is a REAL CASH VALUE on in game assets.
They may even be over that line now in some states and localities. Even some of those giveways and contests where "no purchase is necessary" are illegal in some states (ie, the "void where prohibited" disclaimer in such promotions). This is why, for example, Europe has always been excluded from any SOE contest/prize giveaway. Turns out the card games themselves might be illegal there.
Comments
And here's a promotion for a recent Weet-Bix promotion here in NZ, http://www.weetbix.co.nz/Terms.aspx
Note that a) There are no odds of winning each prize and b) you get a free card set to start with (just like the SWG TCG) but if you want more you must get new cards from other Weet-Bix packs, "6.Entry to this Promotion is via the website www.weet-bix.co.nz. Enter your unique codes from Stat Attack II collectable cards. Collectable cards can be found in specially marked Weet-Bix 1kg and 750g packs, and specially marked Weet-Bix Fruity and Weet-Bix Crunch packs, at participating stores. Follow the website prompts to play Stat Attack II."
All you've really proved is that NZ needs a major overhaul when it comes to gambling laws. Further, you are buying Cereal (an actual physical product and you are getting actual physical cards).
There is no point in any debate with you. You are the definition of the word "Fanboi" when it comes to SWG and despite the fact that every aspect of your defense has been completely eviscerated, you continue to try and advocate the illegal activities of SOE. The fact that this could potentially exploit children should be enough for you to see sense, but not at the expense of your mindless SOE fanboism apparently.
The good news is that I have received replies from two seperate lottery commissions who are not happy about this and and are investigating further. I dont want to give out specific details at this point but I will as I receive the results of their investigations.
Apparently enabling illegal, underage gambling doesnt sit well with the powers that be in the US and Canada.
S
Why does NZ need a major overhaul of our gambling laws? There is no public outcry over competitions such as the Weet-Bix example I provided and they're not seen as gambling. As for getting physical cards, those cards are simply vouchers you use to redeem your card on the website which you can use to play against others within the online card game.
It amuses me that you keep reverting to your "you're a fanboi" defense. Mostly because you were calling such arguments as weak a few days ago when you were being called that by others here and yet here you are, doing the exact same thing you were critiscing them for.
You're right in a way though, this is a pointless argument. It seems unlikely you're going to understand that these kind of promotions are quite normal, quite legal and quite accepted in other countries around the world. Don't bother trying to convince me that my country and others like it are "worse off" for it because it's just as unlikely that I'll take any notice of that too
The TCG is not a promotion. You just keep dancing around the obvious because you are incapable of seeing SOE/SWG in a bad light. Everyone knows that about you, here and on the official forums (where SOE are continuously deleting any thread that makes light of this in short order), why could that be I wonder?
Im glad you're amused, because I can assure you that the powers that be are not. Oh, and I could care less what you "take notice of". While I applaud you for helping new players (and returning players), I disregard about 80% of what you say as mindless "fanboism" (which it is).
I think its best if we leave it there as until I get clarification, there isn't much else to say.
Regards,
S
Its not a crusade, and if they tell me its legal, I won't pursue it (JFYI, that's not the feedback I am getting at the moment, especially not from the US/Canada).
Conversely, just because you have learned how to copy and paste, you'll forgive me if I don't take your word for anything.
S
Am i missing something about these SWG cards?
Whats the difference between these cards and WoW, Star Trek, Magic the Gathering and all those cards games where you buy loads of packs hoping to get that rare one? Or is there something different with this SWG type?
I understand the 'gambling problem' but I also think that responsiblity for oneself is fading fast in this world. It's always someone else fault and that is creating a very cynical society.
The differences have been elaborated on several times within this thread.
S
Its not a crusade, and if they tell me its legal, I won't pursue it (JFYI, that's not the feedback I am getting at the moment, especially not from the US/Canada).
Conversely, just because you have learned how to copy and paste, you'll forgive me if I don't take your word for anything.
S
Hell i'm interested to see what they tell you, it will effect alot of TCG's out there
as for your feedback well i agree we should wait and see what they tell you because i'm sure you over exagerated things to them, so i'm glad they will call up these companies themselves.
"The great thing about human language is that it prevents us from sticking to the matter at hand."
- Lewis Thomas
there is no difference they just desperatly want there to be some.
"The great thing about human language is that it prevents us from sticking to the matter at hand."
- Lewis Thomas
Its not a crusade, and if they tell me its legal, I won't pursue it (JFYI, that's not the feedback I am getting at the moment, especially not from the US/Canada).
Conversely, just because you have learned how to copy and paste, you'll forgive me if I don't take your word for anything.
S
Hell i'm interested to see what they tell you, it will effect alot of TCG's out there
as for your feedback well i agree we should wait and see what they tell you because i'm sure you over exagerated things to them, so i'm glad they will call up these companies themselves.
You're a Psychic now?
Stop trolling.
S
there is no difference they just desperatly want there to be some.
You're just desperately intent on trolling this thread with your inconsequential, one line responses. The differences have been outlined numerous times. It's a shame you lack the ability to read and/or comprehend them.
S
Its not a crusade, and if they tell me its legal, I won't pursue it (JFYI, that's not the feedback I am getting at the moment, especially not from the US/Canada).
Conversely, just because you have learned how to copy and paste, you'll forgive me if I don't take your word for anything.
S
Hell i'm interested to see what they tell you, it will effect alot of TCG's out there
as for your feedback well i agree we should wait and see what they tell you because i'm sure you over exagerated things to them, so i'm glad they will call up these companies themselves.
You're a Psychic now?
Stop trolling.
S
nobody's trolling, your over exaggerating things on these forums, i'm pretty sure it carried over to your conversation to those agencies, and it is a crusade, good luck with that.
"The great thing about human language is that it prevents us from sticking to the matter at hand."
- Lewis Thomas
Its not a crusade, and if they tell me its legal, I won't pursue it (JFYI, that's not the feedback I am getting at the moment, especially not from the US/Canada).
Conversely, just because you have learned how to copy and paste, you'll forgive me if I don't take your word for anything.
S
Hell i'm interested to see what they tell you, it will effect alot of TCG's out there
as for your feedback well i agree we should wait and see what they tell you because i'm sure you over exagerated things to them, so i'm glad they will call up these companies themselves.
You're a Psychic now?
Stop trolling.
S
nobody's trolling, your over exaggerating things on these forums, i'm pretty sure it carried over to your conversation to those agencies, and it is a crusade, good luck with that.
/ignore 4tw.
Bye.
there is no difference they just desperatly want there to be some.
You're just desperately intent on trolling this thread with your inconsequential, one line responses. The differences have been outlined numerous times. It's a shame you lack the ability to read and/or comprehend them.
S
Wow, I asked one question.
I have read five pages of this forum thread, and all i have read is people arguing over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over again about whether this is gambling or not. You're not going to convince people on the internet if they disagree from the beginning. I have no desire to read more posts on that subject. You guys are in the US, a trial by case system, therefore what other people are doing and has a case like this happened before is the real issue, not whether is gambling or not, that is almost irrelevant.
Its not a crusade, and if they tell me its legal, I won't pursue it (JFYI, that's not the feedback I am getting at the moment, especially not from the US/Canada).
Conversely, just because you have learned how to copy and paste, you'll forgive me if I don't take your word for anything.
S
Hell i'm interested to see what they tell you, it will effect alot of TCG's out there
as for your feedback well i agree we should wait and see what they tell you because i'm sure you over exagerated things to them, so i'm glad they will call up these companies themselves.
You're a Psychic now?
Stop trolling.
S
nobody's trolling, your over exaggerating things on these forums, i'm pretty sure it carried over to your conversation to those agencies, and it is a crusade, good luck with that.
/ignore 4tw.
Bye.
haha my feelings are hurt oh noes'
anyways i found some interesting stuff
Is the Pokemon Trading Card Game a form of gambling?
In September 1999 a lawsuit was filed against Nintendo et. al. alleging that the Pokemon TCG "qualifies as a gambling enterprise because of three elements: kids must 'pay to play' by buying packets of Pokemon cards; they can 'win' rare prize cards, which are intrinsically more valuable than other Pokemon cards; and there is an element of chance because the higher value cards are inserted randomly into Pokemon packets." I am not a judge so I don't know where the law stands, but it sounds like the lawsuit was hatched by some people just trying to cash in on the whole Pokemon craze. Last I heard, this lawsuit was thrown out of court.
"The great thing about human language is that it prevents us from sticking to the matter at hand."
- Lewis Thomas
there is no difference they just desperatly want there to be some.
You're just desperately intent on trolling this thread with your inconsequential, one line responses. The differences have been outlined numerous times. It's a shame you lack the ability to read and/or comprehend them.
S
Wow, I asked one question.
I have read five pages of this forum thread, and all i have read is people arguing over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over again about whether this is gambling or not. You're not going to convince people on the internet if they disagree from the beginning. I have no desire to read more posts on that subject. You guys are in the US, a trial by case system, therefore what other people are doing is the real issue, not whether is gambling or not, that is almost irrelevant.
He's on a crusade, acting like a madman not sure why either, seems he didn't get a card he wanted from the packs he probably bought.
He can't handle people not seeing things his way and would rather label them a troll and ignore them than actually think about what he is blabbering, fact is there is no difference and he can't show it, he just says read this and that and the fact is i read it all and there is no difference, maybe one day he will grow up and realise this.
"The great thing about human language is that it prevents us from sticking to the matter at hand."
- Lewis Thomas
This thread is so full dumb it is unreal.
Everyone who thinks that the TCG is gambling might well we correct...or may not be correct.
At the end of the day, people that gamble are greedy individuals that, deserve everything that comes to them...be that a massive cash win, an exotic Holiday, a toaster...or even massive debt.
Its is nobody's fault but that of the person that is gambling.
YOU have a choice to gamble or not, no one forces you to.
P.s. that shit about companies taking advantage of people is just bollox, your a grown adult ffs, make a bloody decision based on your limits and stick to it.
The differences have been elaborated on several times within this thread.
S
Yes they have been pointed out, but the thread is getting long, so I don't mind a brief review:
In other card games, you are purchasing packs of cards that may have a rare card for the actual game you are playing. In the SOE TCG card game, people are purchasing card packs not to get cards for the actual card game. They are hoping to get a rare item for use in another entertainment service entirely. They are hoping to win something that will enhance their experience of another online game that they are already paying a subscription fee to enjoy. That's one main difference.
Another important difference, is that with most TCG's, the cards you buy, you actually own. The rare cards are for the TCG itself (point 1), and have a market value that you now have ownership of (point 2).
Hopefully these difference are clear; I think they're important.
Now, as for product promotionals in North America. The important differences are that in legal promotionals in North American, odds of winning must be provided, and a no purchase necessary clause must be included in the terms.
Hopefully these differences are also clear; I think they're important too.
I certainly don't claim to be an expert on product promotionals in New Zealand. I do know how they work here in Canada. I'm also aware that SOE and most of its customers for SWG are in North America. It stands to reason, therefore, that SOE should operate it's online card game in a manner that respects the relevant laws and practices in Canada and the United States. Apparently, they don't, and I think that's a problem.
By the way, no one wants to "spoil the fun" for anyone here. People just want others (friends in particular) to know what they're getting into when they take this online gamble. Gambling can hook people even when they know what they're getting into. They are more likely to be hooked, however, if they're drawn into a powerful, intermittent reinforcement strategy, that motivates spending, outside of their awareness.
I'm a psychology professor, and I'm actually lecturing today on intermittent reinforcement. Here's an excerpt from today's notes:
"What is partial (intermittent) reinforcement? The behaviour is sometimes reinforced, sometimes not. This pattern produces the greatest resistance to extinction. An example of this is the slot machine. You never know when you might get the reward so you keep trying, and trying, and trying."
This is the mechanism attached to the loot cards. You never know when you might get one, so you are motivated to engage in a desired behaviour more often. In this case, the desired behaviour is purchasing TCG card packs. Again, please recognize that people are not trying for rare cards that are actually a part of the TCG. Their spending is being reinforced (intentionally it would seem) by the intermittent reinforcement of loot cards that enhance their experience in SWG, an entertainment service that they are already subscribed too.
Also, the more the "loot" affects their SWG experience, the more likely they are to get hooked into gambling for loot cards. The stronger the buffs, the faster the vehicles, the more it becomes necessary to gamble in order to remain competitive in the online game. If your character is not competitive, your subscription fee is wasted, as is all of you ingame progress to date.
Also, as has been pointed out already, the "free" cards are not at all free. You receive a small number of cards as part of your subscription fee. To get the new buffs, faster vehicles etc., you may choose to pay your subscription fee and wait for the rare loot to drop. As others get the random drops, however, you are likely to fall behind. This is especially true if others gamble for the rare drops and win. The effect of the cards you get as part of your subscription fee is actually to motivate you to gamble to keep up with your friends. If a rival guild is all using loot cards buffs and driving podracers for example, how are you going to keep up with them? There's only one way, pay your money, spin the wheel, and hope you get lucky. The more powerful the buffs, the faster the vehicles, the more powerful the incentive to pay and spin.
If people think that SOE is unware of how their game differs from other TCGs and product promotionals, I think you're naive. I don't mean that critically; it's just an observation. There are a number of powerful spending motivators, including (but not limited to) a gambling mechanic that has one goal in mind: to get your money, and offer you very little (if anything) in return.
The differences have been elaborated on several times within this thread.
S
Yes they have been pointed out, but the thread is getting long, so I don't mind a brief review:
In other card games, you are purchasing packs of cards that may have a rare card for the actual game you are playing. In the SOE TCG card game, people are purchasing card packs not to get cards for the actual card game. They are hoping to get a rare item for use in another entertainment service entirely. They are hoping to win something that will enhance their experience of another online game that they are already paying a subscription fee to enjoy. That's one main difference.
Okay i'm kinda tired of people trying to make them seem different when they aren't, yes people are buying cards for rare items in the swg TCG and some of them may just play the card game, we don't know this. Lets use WoW now, people are buying the cards for loot items in the game, some play it most do not, all my friends that are playing buy the cards for loot items and don't play the game, it is the same. Other TCG's out there may not have a game to to take items too but they still have rare cards people fiend over and will spend all their life savings trying to get them cards, i know this, i've seen people do it and i told them to stop being stupid.
Another important difference, is that with most TCG's, the cards you buy, you actually own. The rare cards are for the TCG itself (point 1), and have a market value that you now have ownership of (point 2).
This isn't different than any other TCG out there, as i said i'm pretty sure i can run to my local walmart and buy some cards that i will physically own right now, as all the cards i own. only place i have seen cards that you buy that you don't have a physical item to own is the Magic the Gathering Online game.
Hopefully these difference are clear; I think they're important.
Now, as for product promotionals in North America. The important differences are that in legal promotionals in North American, odds of winning must be provided, and a no purchase necessary clause must be included in the terms.
Hopefully these differences are also clear; I think they're important too.
I certainly don't claim to be an expert on product promotionals in New Zealand. I do know how they work here in Canada. I'm also aware that SOE and most of its customers for SWG are in North America. It stands to reason, therefore, that SOE should operate it's online card game in a manner that respects the relevant laws and practices in Canada and the United States. Apparently, they don't, and I think that's a problem.
By the way, no one wants to "spoil the fun" for anyone here. People just want others (friends in particular) to know what they're getting into when they take this online gamble. Gambling can hook people even when they know what they're getting into. They are more likely to be hooked, however, if they're drawn into a powerful, intermittent reinforcement strategy, that motivates spending, outside of their awareness.
I'm a psychology professor, and I'm actually lecturing today on intermittent reinforcement. Here's an excerpt from today's notes:
"What is partial (intermittent) reinforcement? The behaviour is sometimes reinforced, sometimes not. This pattern produces the greatest resistance to extinction. An example of this is the slot machine. You never know when you might get the reward so you keep trying, and trying, and trying."
This is the mechanism attached to the loot cards. You never know when you might get one, so you are motivated to engage in a desired behaviour more often. In this case, the desired behaviour is purchasing TCG card packs. Again, please recognize that people are not trying for rare cards that are actually a part of the TCG. Their spending is being reinforced (intentionally it would seem) by the intermittent reinforcement of loot cards that enhance their experience in SWG, and entertainment service that they are already subscribed too. Also, the more the "loot" affects their SWG experience, the more likely they are to get hooked into gambling for loot cards. The stronger the buffs, the faster the vehicles, the more it becomes necessary to gamble in order to remain competitive in the online game. If your character is not competitive, your subscription fee is wasted, as is all of you ingame progress to date.
there is no difference, sorry no matter how much you want there to be one there isn't one. I'm sorry these people can't be responsible for what they do with their lives but should we regulate everything because some people can't be more responsible?
Is it gambling, i'll agree to it, lots of things are gambling, hell parents buying their kids pokemon cards and letting them play in tournaments is gambling, why hasn't anything been done about this? but hell its not like we don't have tons of regulations on things already, so why not add some more.
just so you know blizzard even allows players to sell their loot cards for gold from other players, i've seen them advertised in trade and so far its been all legit.
basically i get what you are saying but what you are saying goes towards all TCG's, hell the WoW packs even have points in them to buy game items off of upperdecks site, like tabards and other things.
Edit: i'll leave this debate were it is now, if people really want to see it as different i won't try and change thier mind, but i've been with tcg's forever and really its all the same, but i'm done with it, we'll just see what happens, can't wait to hear what they tell all of you who called officials to see what they think about it.
"The great thing about human language is that it prevents us from sticking to the matter at hand."
- Lewis Thomas
The differences have been elaborated on several times within this thread.
S
Yes they have been pointed out, but the thread is getting long, so I don't mind a brief review:
In other card games, you are purchasing packs of cards that may have a rare card for the actual game you are playing. In the SOE TCG card game, people are purchasing card packs not to get cards for the actual card game. They are hoping to get a rare item for use in another entertainment service entirely. They are hoping to win something that will enhance their experience of another online game that they are already paying a subscription fee to enjoy. That's one main difference.
Okay i'm kinda tired of people trying to make them seem different when they aren't, yes people are buying cards for rare items in the swg TCG and some of them may just play the card game, we don't know this. Lets use WoW now, people are buying the cards for loot items in the game, some play it most do not, all my friends that are playing buy the cards for loot items and don't play the game, it is the same. Other TCG's out there may not have a game to to take items too but they still have rare cards people fiend over and will spend all their life savings trying to get them cards, i know this, i've seen people do it and i told them to stop being stupid.
Another important difference, is that with most TCG's, the cards you buy, you actually own. The rare cards are for the TCG itself (point 1), and have a market value that you now have ownership of (point 2).
This isn't different than any other TCG out there, as i said i'm pretty sure i can run to my local walmart and buy some cards that i will physically own right now, as all the cards i own. only place i have seen cards that you buy that you don't have a physical item to own is the Magic the Gathering Online game.
Hopefully these difference are clear; I think they're important.
Now, as for product promotionals in North America. The important differences are that in legal promotionals in North American, odds of winning must be provided, and a no purchase necessary clause must be included in the terms.
Hopefully these differences are also clear; I think they're important too.
I certainly don't claim to be an expert on product promotionals in New Zealand. I do know how they work here in Canada. I'm also aware that SOE and most of its customers for SWG are in North America. It stands to reason, therefore, that SOE should operate it's online card game in a manner that respects the relevant laws and practices in Canada and the United States. Apparently, they don't, and I think that's a problem.
By the way, no one wants to "spoil the fun" for anyone here. People just want others (friends in particular) to know what they're getting into when they take this online gamble. Gambling can hook people even when they know what they're getting into. They are more likely to be hooked, however, if they're drawn into a powerful, intermittent reinforcement strategy, that motivates spending, outside of their awareness.
I'm a psychology professor, and I'm actually lecturing today on intermittent reinforcement. Here's an excerpt from today's notes:
"What is partial (intermittent) reinforcement? The behaviour is sometimes reinforced, sometimes not. This pattern produces the greatest resistance to extinction. An example of this is the slot machine. You never know when you might get the reward so you keep trying, and trying, and trying."
This is the mechanism attached to the loot cards. You never know when you might get one, so you are motivated to engage in a desired behaviour more often. In this case, the desired behaviour is purchasing TCG card packs. Again, please recognize that people are not trying for rare cards that are actually a part of the TCG. Their spending is being reinforced (intentionally it would seem) by the intermittent reinforcement of loot cards that enhance their experience in SWG, and entertainment service that they are already subscribed too. Also, the more the "loot" affects their SWG experience, the more likely they are to get hooked into gambling for loot cards. The stronger the buffs, the faster the vehicles, the more it becomes necessary to gamble in order to remain competitive in the online game. If your character is not competitive, your subscription fee is wasted, as is all of you ingame progress to date.
there is no difference, sorry no matter how much you want there to be one there isn't one. I'm sorry these people can't be responsible for what they do with their lives but should we regulate everything because some people can't be more responsible?
Is it gambling, i'll agree to it, lots of things are gambling, hell parents buying their kids pokemon cards and letting them play in tournaments is gambling, why hasn't anything been done about this? but hell its not like we don't have tons of regulations on things already, so why not add some more.
just so you know blizzard even allows players to sell their loot cards for gold from other players, i've seen them advertised in trade and so far its been all legit.
basically i get what you are saying but what you are saying goes towards all TCG's, hell the WoW packs even have points in them to buy game items off of upperdecks site, like tabards and other things.
Edit: i'll leave this debate were it is now, if people really want to see it as different i won't try and change thier mind, but i've been with tcg's forever and really its all the same, but i'm done with it, we'll just see what happens, can't wait to hear what they tell all of you who called officials to see what they think about it.
Just so you know. I hear what you're saying. It sounds like there are now two kinds of TCGs. Some have you trying to get rare cards that are actually part of the card game itself. Others seem to imbed other rewards in them that people then gamble for.
I have no problem with the first category of TCGs at all, especially when you own the rare cards that you purchase, and they are a part of the actual game.
I'm suggesting that when you attach other rewards to card purchasing (outside the card game itself) you need to make sure this follows product promotional regulations, and does not become an unregulated game of chance.
Also, I had another thought on the cards you get as part of your subscription. The longer you go paying your sub, and getting cards that you think are junk, the more likely you are to start buying booster packs.
If I was going to try to hook people into compulsive spending habits outside of their awareness, this is how I would do it--it's textbook. I just wouldn't do it. I guess because I like people more than money (shrug). Also, I'm in a service industy. I teach. People know exactly what they're getting from me before they pay their fee (nothing wrong with making money via a reasonable fee for an honest service). There are no hidden agendas, and no hidden mechanisms designed to promote complusive spending. That's very intentional, as I'm the head of the department. I think service providers can be honest with you up front about services you pay for, or they can be dishonest and manipulative. SOE's approach to the loot cards resembles the latter philosophy from my perspective. I'm sure they're not alone in this approach, but that doesn't make it a welcome one from a customer's point of view.
Just because it's not advertised as gambling doesn't mean that it isn't. Advertised gambling is usually in hopes of winning money - and there enlies the difference. By buying these cards they don't want to win cash but prizes instead. Say I were to use a crane machine to try and win a stuffed animal - even though a 5 year old could play it, is it a gamble that you might not win? (Yes, some machines do let you play until you win, but not all.) The point is, the company is not to blame for this at all. They said "Hey, there's a chance you can get these special cards by buying our product - but no guarentee." That is the biggest warning of all is saying that these cards are rare and that you in general have to be lucky to win them.
And here's a promotion for a recent Weet-Bix promotion here in NZ, http://www.weetbix.co.nz/Terms.aspx
Note that a) There are no odds of winning each prize and b) you get a free card set to start with (just like the SWG TCG) but if you want more you must get new cards from other Weet-Bix packs, "6.Entry to this Promotion is via the website www.weet-bix.co.nz. Enter your unique codes from Stat Attack II collectable cards. Collectable cards can be found in specially marked Weet-Bix 1kg and 750g packs, and specially marked Weet-Bix Fruity and Weet-Bix Crunch packs, at participating stores. Follow the website prompts to play Stat Attack II."
All you've really proved is that NZ needs a major overhaul when it comes to gambling laws. Further, you are buying Cereal (an actual physical product and you are getting actual physical cards).
There is no point in any debate with you. You are the definition of the word "Fanboi" when it comes to SWG and despite the fact that every aspect of your defense has been completely eviscerated, you continue to try and advocate the illegal activities of SOE. The fact that this could potentially exploit children should be enough for you to see sense, but not at the expense of your mindless SOE fanboism apparently.
The good news is that I have received replies from two seperate lottery commissions who are not happy about this and and are investigating further. I dont want to give out specific details at this point but I will as I receive the results of their investigations.
Apparently enabling illegal, underage gambling doesnt sit well with the powers that be in the US and Canada.
S
Why does NZ need a major overhaul of our gambling laws? There is no public outcry over competitions such as the Weet-Bix example I provided and they're not seen as gambling. As for getting physical cards, those cards are simply vouchers you use to redeem your card on the website which you can use to play against others within the online card game.
It amuses me that you keep reverting to your "you're a fanboi" defense. Mostly because you were calling such arguments as weak a few days ago when you were being called that by others here and yet here you are, doing the exact same thing you were critiscing them for.
You're right in a way though, this is a pointless argument. It seems unlikely you're going to understand that these kind of promotions are quite normal, quite legal and quite accepted in other countries around the world. Don't bother trying to convince me that my country and others like it are "worse off" for it because it's just as unlikely that I'll take any notice of that too
The TCG is not a promotion. You just keep dancing around the obvious because you are incapable of seeing SOE/SWG in a bad light. Everyone knows that about you, here and on the official forums (where SOE are continuously deleting any thread that makes light of this in short order), why could that be I wonder?
Im glad you're amused, because I can assure you that the powers that be are not. Oh, and I could care less what you "take notice of". While I applaud you for helping new players (and returning players), I disregard about 80% of what you say as mindless "fanboism" (which it is).
I think its best if we leave it there as until I get clarification, there isn't much else to say.
Regards,
S
And there you go, backing into your "you're a fanboi so there!" defensive corner
Just to clarify no, the TCG isn't a promotion but the loot cards are, however.
And here's a promotion for a recent Weet-Bix promotion here in NZ, http://www.weetbix.co.nz/Terms.aspx
Note that a) There are no odds of winning each prize and b) you get a free card set to start with (just like the SWG TCG) but if you want more you must get new cards from other Weet-Bix packs, "6.Entry to this Promotion is via the website www.weet-bix.co.nz. Enter your unique codes from Stat Attack II collectable cards. Collectable cards can be found in specially marked Weet-Bix 1kg and 750g packs, and specially marked Weet-Bix Fruity and Weet-Bix Crunch packs, at participating stores. Follow the website prompts to play Stat Attack II."
All you've really proved is that NZ needs a major overhaul when it comes to gambling laws. Further, you are buying Cereal (an actual physical product and you are getting actual physical cards).
There is no point in any debate with you. You are the definition of the word "Fanboi" when it comes to SWG and despite the fact that every aspect of your defense has been completely eviscerated, you continue to try and advocate the illegal activities of SOE. The fact that this could potentially exploit children should be enough for you to see sense, but not at the expense of your mindless SOE fanboism apparently.
The good news is that I have received replies from two seperate lottery commissions who are not happy about this and and are investigating further. I dont want to give out specific details at this point but I will as I receive the results of their investigations.
Apparently enabling illegal, underage gambling doesnt sit well with the powers that be in the US and Canada.
S
Why does NZ need a major overhaul of our gambling laws? There is no public outcry over competitions such as the Weet-Bix example I provided and they're not seen as gambling. As for getting physical cards, those cards are simply vouchers you use to redeem your card on the website which you can use to play against others within the online card game.
It amuses me that you keep reverting to your "you're a fanboi" defense. Mostly because you were calling such arguments as weak a few days ago when you were being called that by others here and yet here you are, doing the exact same thing you were critiscing them for.
You're right in a way though, this is a pointless argument. It seems unlikely you're going to understand that these kind of promotions are quite normal, quite legal and quite accepted in other countries around the world. Don't bother trying to convince me that my country and others like it are "worse off" for it because it's just as unlikely that I'll take any notice of that too
The TCG is not a promotion. You just keep dancing around the obvious because you are incapable of seeing SOE/SWG in a bad light. Everyone knows that about you, here and on the official forums (where SOE are continuously deleting any thread that makes light of this in short order), why could that be I wonder?
Im glad you're amused, because I can assure you that the powers that be are not. Oh, and I could care less what you "take notice of". While I applaud you for helping new players (and returning players), I disregard about 80% of what you say as mindless "fanboism" (which it is).
I think its best if we leave it there as until I get clarification, there isn't much else to say.
Regards,
S
And there you go, backing into your "you're a fanboi so there!" defensive corner
Just to clarify no, the TCG isn't a promotion but the loot cards are, however.
No Obraik, it's what I, and everyone else here like to call "The large corner of fact". Its a corner that doesnt seem to exist in NZ.
The day I see you being objective about SWG/SOE, I'll retract that statement. Until then, you remain, the ultimate, unobjective, biased SWG Fanboi.
Enjoy.
S
Considering you are already paying to play the game you should automaticly have full access to the game and i mean all items being Armor/Weapons/Mounts that is what you are paying the monthly fee for. But SOE had to take it a step further and sell cards with what it seems like a .01% chance of getting a loot card and it is a virtual card and not a physical card. Now people are compareing WoW TCG with this one from SOE how the f**k are you going to do that seriously? The WoW trading card game you are getting a physical card which is yours forever now with the SOE card it is a virtual item meaning it can be taken away anytime. Tell me how that compares if you are talking about what items you get then again WoW cards are nothing that really alters your game play but SOE cards are altering the game because you are aiming for a chance to get an in-game item Armor/Weapon/Mount that is superior to the current item you may or may not have WoW will give away a card that is not really needed.
This is more of a MEGA SCAM then a Gamble. Now i think SOE will lose a lot of money because people see their true faces and what they are all about and that is scamming their trusted customers. After hearing about this whole thing i pretty much said i will never play another SOE game because whats not to say they wont pull this kind of crap again. This is the only reason i refuse to play another SOE game because i truely think they will pull this kind of thing again.
And here's a promotion for a recent Weet-Bix promotion here in NZ, http://www.weetbix.co.nz/Terms.aspx
Note that a) There are no odds of winning each prize and b) you get a free card set to start with (just like the SWG TCG) but if you want more you must get new cards from other Weet-Bix packs, "6.Entry to this Promotion is via the website www.weet-bix.co.nz. Enter your unique codes from Stat Attack II collectable cards. Collectable cards can be found in specially marked Weet-Bix 1kg and 750g packs, and specially marked Weet-Bix Fruity and Weet-Bix Crunch packs, at participating stores. Follow the website prompts to play Stat Attack II."
All you've really proved is that NZ needs a major overhaul when it comes to gambling laws. Further, you are buying Cereal (an actual physical product and you are getting actual physical cards).
There is no point in any debate with you. You are the definition of the word "Fanboi" when it comes to SWG and despite the fact that every aspect of your defense has been completely eviscerated, you continue to try and advocate the illegal activities of SOE. The fact that this could potentially exploit children should be enough for you to see sense, but not at the expense of your mindless SOE fanboism apparently.
The good news is that I have received replies from two seperate lottery commissions who are not happy about this and and are investigating further. I dont want to give out specific details at this point but I will as I receive the results of their investigations.
Apparently enabling illegal, underage gambling doesnt sit well with the powers that be in the US and Canada.
S
Why does NZ need a major overhaul of our gambling laws? There is no public outcry over competitions such as the Weet-Bix example I provided and they're not seen as gambling. As for getting physical cards, those cards are simply vouchers you use to redeem your card on the website which you can use to play against others within the online card game.
It amuses me that you keep reverting to your "you're a fanboi" defense. Mostly because you were calling such arguments as weak a few days ago when you were being called that by others here and yet here you are, doing the exact same thing you were critiscing them for.
You're right in a way though, this is a pointless argument. It seems unlikely you're going to understand that these kind of promotions are quite normal, quite legal and quite accepted in other countries around the world. Don't bother trying to convince me that my country and others like it are "worse off" for it because it's just as unlikely that I'll take any notice of that too
The TCG is not a promotion. You just keep dancing around the obvious because you are incapable of seeing SOE/SWG in a bad light. Everyone knows that about you, here and on the official forums (where SOE are continuously deleting any thread that makes light of this in short order), why could that be I wonder?
Im glad you're amused, because I can assure you that the powers that be are not. Oh, and I could care less what you "take notice of". While I applaud you for helping new players (and returning players), I disregard about 80% of what you say as mindless "fanboism" (which it is).
I think its best if we leave it there as until I get clarification, there isn't much else to say.
Regards,
S
And there you go, backing into your "you're a fanboi so there!" defensive corner
Just to clarify no, the TCG isn't a promotion but the loot cards are, however.
No Obraik, it's what I, and everyone else here like to call "The large corner of fact". Its a corner that doesnt seem to exist in NZ.
The day I see you being objective about SWG/SOE, I'll retract that statement. Until then, you remain, the ultimate, unobjective, biased SWG Fanboi.
Enjoy.
S
Actually, no it's not "everyone else". There are others here that have been disagreeing with your opinion but, of course, you dismiss their opinions as well simply because it doesn't suit your agenda...
You're talking about a function of the card game that rewards you with other functions of the card game, as opposed to using a function of the card game to reward someone with something totally unrelated.
It's like going to a carnival and wanting to ride the carousel, but you have to win a ticket playing the milk bottles game first. It's obvious that it's just a scam. However, nobody is going to complain if they are giving away stuffed animals, because stuffed animals aren't required to enjoy the rest of the carnival.
People wanting to play SWG shouldn't be punished for not wanting to pay for the TCG. People who play the TCG anyways aren't going to care either way, since the rewards are just a bonus.
Actually...I remember other prizes being offered in various trading card packs...this was the 80's though so i'll be damned if i remember ...lol. Imo....the loot cards are just like the stuffed animals at the carnival. It may seem cool to have one...but I don't need it to enjoy the game. That's why I can't quite see the great uproar over an issue that basically involves an act of freewill.
Once these card games and loot cards get tied closer and closer to RMT model, the further towards black in the "gray area" of being in effect a private lottery and interstate online gambling it becomes.
You see, introduce RMT and suddenly there is a REAL CASH VALUE on in game assets.
They may even be over that line now in some states and localities. Even some of those giveways and contests where "no purchase is necessary" are illegal in some states (ie, the "void where prohibited" disclaimer in such promotions). This is why, for example, Europe has always been excluded from any SOE contest/prize giveaway. Turns out the card games themselves might be illegal there.
Willy Wonka is an enabling bastard.