Trolling/Fanboism are symptoms of an

VultureSkull · November 2008

Addict.

There is no doubt that all computer games are addictive and mmorpgs take this addiction to new heights as they are actually engineered to be addictive, whether this is done consciously or not I don’t know but the end result is the same.

There are various aspects of MMOs that cater to our basic human instincts which lend themselves to creating this addictive environment to which we expose ourselves on a daily basis and as such it is no surprise that we turn in addicts, some harder than others as seen with people dying from playing to much, to guys losing their relationships etc.

Gathering.

Human beings love to gather and horde things; it is a basic human instinct. How many of us keep all sorts of junk at home, stuff we know we will never actual use, but cannot bring ourselves to throw away. In MMOs we are always gathering stuff, armour, weapons, resources for crafting, knickknacks of all sorts, our bags get full, bank space get full and we never ultimately have enough space.

We are forever gathering things in game, Quests allow you to gather things(rewards), killing mobs allow you gather things, killing players, raiding, etc.

So whether you realise it or not this satisfies some inner desire to have more and more and keep it all.

This is closely related to the human instinct to continually better ones self. In the real world this is sometimes hard to achieve as the competition and efforts involve can be quite hard. Whereas in game you usually start at level 1 and in a few minutes you gain a level and become level 2, actually doubling your previous self.

This new level gives new skills and attributes, allows you to wear better armour etc. You are then shown what you can have when you get to level 3 which immediately makes you want to strive to get there and so it continues for the next 60 or so levels. And then on to the next class, and then the next game.

Competition.

MMOs allow for gladiatorial type combat without consequence, pitting yourself against your fellow man in martial combat without risk of injury or loss of property can also be seen as a caveman instinct, apparently, this is more so in males than in females, something to do with man’s desire to conquer, there is some psychobabble that explains this as the brains mesocorticolimbic centre, the region typically associated with reward and addiction being stimulated and more so in men than in woman.

In game PvP caters to this competition and gamers take this aspect of MMOs extremely seriously, with entire games dedicated to it (GW). This has been taken further to incorporate faction versus faction or in some cases even a 3 way realm versus realm. This leads on to the next compulsive aspect of MMOs…

Tribal Warfare.

MMOs facilitate the gamer’s involvement in tribal warfare. Traditionally tribal warfare allowed for the display of courage masculinity and the emotion without great risk of death or serious injury. In an MMO there is of course no injury or death and so can be taken to extreme heights without consequence.

Football supporters exhibit all the symptoms of tribal warfare when chanting and supporting their teams at matches, and it is common to have fights between rival supporters which are organized by the mutually agreement. Although MMOs players do not go to such lengths the same feeling and emotions are arose when participating in Factional warfare in your favourite game.

Wealth, everybody likes money and although the coin obtained in an MMO has no real life value (Gold sellers may disagree here) in game it has. We are after all part of a society that has a market and a rudimentary demand and supply mechanism so the player can actually feel the power of their coin. Some actually play the auction house or the markets and amass great amounts of coin.

I am sure that there are other aspects of MMOs that further feed our addiction which I cannot think of just now.

However back to the topic of this post, I believe that the aggressive behavior of trolls and fansboys stems from this addiction.

Have you ever argued with an addict about his favourite drug, try telling them that it is crap or his drug is not the funky-est that yours is etc.

So when arguing and debating online about your favorite MMO, and you are sure that you yourself are not suffering the effects of an addict, then bear in mind that your are actually arguing with an addict and the realisation of this will better help you understand where the Troll/Fanboy is coming from.

Also bear this in mind when addressing game devs and producers on the forums, although I believe they must realise this already and take a lot of unnecessary crap from we the gamer when there is something wrong with our fix!

talismen351 · November 2008

So what about the troll/fanboy that has never actually played the game because it has not been released yet? I see more of that in a game not yet released than I do of actual games released.

VengeSunsoar · November 2008

Not to mention the fact that the APA has decided not to include internet or gaming addiction in the DSM yet due to a lack of evidence or that your human instincts are completely subjective that for everyone who is a pack-rat or likes competition there is someone who throws things away and likes cooperative experiences.

Possibly except in the elderly for pack-rat anyway as it is one method of trying to maintain control over themselves, theoretically anyway.

Venge Sunsoar

VultureSkull · November 2008

Originally posted by talismen351

So what about the troll/fanboy that has never actually played the game because it has not been released yet? I see more of that in a game not yet released than I do of actual games released.

The promise of a new drug is more than a addict can take and makes him go into a rabid crazy state, flaming all and sundry

popinjay · November 2008

Have you ever argued with an addict about his favourite drug, try telling them that it is crap or his drug is not the funky-est that yours is etc.

Can't say that I have. I don't think I know any drug addicts lol. I am sure I've have met some but I don't think we had some arguments about their favorite drug, and I'm sure they would'nt be defending a drug, just their right to use it as personal choice. I usually stay away from those sort of folks cause usually, the cops aren't too far behind them.

I think troll/fanboism is just a combination of two things that humans have:

1. Curiosity. We love to see the crash. Don't believe it? Drive down any road and see an accident or where something has happened. Very few people will keep on driving by without even taking a PEEK (go ahead, say you did.) and sometimes they cause another crash or event just due to the rubbernecking going on. It's this way with games people pop in to see what's going on and how bad the crash was and who got hurt. If we hear some fool is gonna try and jump over this/that, swim this/that fight this/that, well, we are all ears to see it. We take sides and we bet. That's all. Which leads to:

2. Winners. People want to be on the side of a winner. The "I told you so" factor is too great an inducement. The fact that you pin your hopes and dreams on this game, and I bet against it is a battle all in itself. The more you defend what I think is worthless, the more I attack it. It's a form of PvP all in itself without the bugs and server population problems. Plenty of people to play and gawk/spectate. Down the line when your game fails, well, "I told you so and I'm smarter than you". When my game succeeds against all odds and captures a world market, well, "You sure don't know what you are talking about huh? It's the WORLD thats blind, not you". This goes on forever because of curiosity and the need to be right.

I don't know much about drugs, but I think it has way less to do with any drugs than human nature.

spades07 · November 2008

I'm not an addict I can quit anytime I want.

Zayne3145 · November 2008

The existance of Trolls is purely to counterbalance Fanboys who would otherwise run rampant.

I can't imagine people would go out and bash a game because they didn't like the gameplay/graphics etc. if there was no-one around that cared.

IdesofMarch · November 2008

Originally posted by popinjay

Have you ever argued with an addict about his favourite drug, try telling them that it is crap or his drug is not the funky-est that yours is etc.

Can't say that I have. I don't think I know any drug addicts lol. I am sure I've have met some but I don't think we had some arguments about their favorite drug, and I'm sure they would'nt be defending a drug, just their right to use it as personal choice. I usually stay away from those sort of folks cause usually, the cops aren't too far behind them.

I think troll/fanboism is just a combination of two things that humans have:

1. Curiosity. We love to see the crash. Don't believe it? Drive down any road and see an accident or where something has happened. Very few people will keep on driving by without even taking a PEEK (go ahead, say you did.) and sometimes they cause another crash or event just due to the rubbernecking going on. It's this way with games people pop in to see what's going on and how bad the crash was and who got hurt. If we hear some fool is gonna try and jump over this/that, swim this/that fight this/that, well, we are all ears to see it. We take sides and we bet. That's all. Which leads to:

2. Winners. People want to be on the side of a winner. The "I told you so" factor is too great an inducement. The fact that you pin your hopes and dreams on this game, and I bet against it is a battle all in itself. The more you defend what I think is worthless, the more I attack it. It's a form of PvP all in itself without the bugs and server population problems. Plenty of people to play and gawk/spectate. Down the line when your game fails, well, "I told you so and I'm smarter than you". When my game succeeds against all odds and captures a world market, well, "You sure don't know what you are talking about huh? It's the WORLD thats blind, not you". This goes on forever because of curiosity and the need to be right.

I don't know much about drugs, but I think it has way less to do with any drugs than human nature.

I agree with the above. It's personalities and human/social nature.

And to add on top of that, in the world of the internet where we can all sit anonymously behind a username and avatar, there's not much holding us back from saying exactly what's on our minds or taking an argumentative approach to a conversation with another faceless name. The number of outspoken people online is astronomical. You take it out in the real world, however, and that number is greatly diminished.

Anonymousness is empowering. If it wasn't, we wouldn't be discussing this topic.

Antarious · November 2008

Originally posted by IdesofMarch

I agree with the above. It's personalities and human/social nature.
And to add on top of that, in the world of the internet where we can all sit anonymously behind a username and avatar, there's not much holding us back from saying exactly what's on our minds or taking an argumentative approach to a conversation with another faceless name. The number of outspoken people online is astronomical. You take it out in the real world, however, and that number is greatly diminished.
Anonymousness is empowering. If it wasn't, we wouldn't be discussing this topic.

I think its more the second part...

I dunno but what gets me one way or the other is people basicly want game A to succeed and game B to fail. With the cost of making MMO's for every game "B" that you have... you end up with less product in production... less innovation etc

A person who loves to game would want there to be tons of excellent games to choose from.

The Fanboi/Troll syndrome actually destroy the gaming industry. Well the mentality of it is a self destructive one. It would be one thing to discuss or argue / debate how a game could have been better. What goes on daily is people flat out wanting the "other" game(s) to fail.. and if that keeps happening we'll soon have no MMO's to be fans/trolls of..

altairzq · November 2008

You mean like drug addicts fight about which drug is the best in forums lol

SupderD · November 2008

Originally posted by VultureSkull

Addict.
There is no doubt that all computer games are addictive and mmorpgs take this addiction to new heights as they are actually engineered to be addictive, whether this is done consciously or not I don’t know but the end result is the same.
There are various aspects of MMOs that cater to our basic human instincts which lend themselves to creating this addictive environment to which we expose ourselves on a daily basis and as such it is no surprise that we turn in addicts, some harder than others as seen with people dying from playing to much, to guys losing their relationships etc.
Gathering.
Human beings love to gather and horde things; it is a basic human instinct. How many of us keep all sorts of junk at home, stuff we know we will never actual use, but cannot bring ourselves to throw away. In MMOs we are always gathering stuff, armour, weapons, resources for crafting, knickknacks of all sorts, our bags get full, bank space get full and we never ultimately have enough space.
We are forever gathering things in game, Quests allow you to gather things(rewards), killing mobs allow you gather things, killing players, raiding, etc.
So whether you realise it or not this satisfies some inner desire to have more and more and keep it all.
This is closely related to the human instinct to continually better ones self. In the real world this is sometimes hard to achieve as the competition and efforts involve can be quite hard. Whereas in game you usually start at level 1 and in a few minutes you gain a level and become level 2, actually doubling your previous self.
This new level gives new skills and attributes, allows you to wear better armour etc. You are then shown what you can have when you get to level 3 which immediately makes you want to strive to get there and so it continues for the next 60 or so levels. And then on to the next class, and then the next game.

Competition.
MMOs allow for gladiatorial type combat without consequence, pitting yourself against your fellow man in martial combat without risk of injury or loss of property can also be seen as a caveman instinct, apparently, this is more so in males than in females, something to do with man’s desire to conquer, there is some psychobabble that explains this as the brains mesocorticolimbic centre, the region typically associated with reward and addiction being stimulated and more so in men than in woman.

In game PvP caters to this competition and gamers take this aspect of MMOs extremely seriously, with entire games dedicated to it (GW). This has been taken further to incorporate faction versus faction or in some cases even a 3 way realm versus realm. This leads on to the next compulsive aspect of MMOs…
Tribal Warfare.
MMOs facilitate the gamer’s involvement in tribal warfare. Traditionally tribal warfare allowed for the display of courage masculinity and the emotion without great risk of death or serious injury. In an MMO there is of course no injury or death and so can be taken to extreme heights without consequence.

Football supporters exhibit all the symptoms of tribal warfare when chanting and supporting their teams at matches, and it is common to have fights between rival supporters which are organized by the mutually agreement. Although MMOs players do not go to such lengths the same feeling and emotions are arose when participating in Factional warfare in your favourite game.
Wealth, everybody likes money and although the coin obtained in an MMO has no real life value (Gold sellers may disagree here) in game it has. We are after all part of a society that has a market and a rudimentary demand and supply mechanism so the player can actually feel the power of their coin. Some actually play the auction house or the markets and amass great amounts of coin.
I am sure that there are other aspects of MMOs that further feed our addiction which I cannot think of just now.
However back to the topic of this post, I believe that the aggressive behavior of trolls and fansboys stems from this addiction.
Have you ever argued with an addict about his favourite drug, try telling them that it is crap or his drug is not the funky-est that yours is etc.

So when arguing and debating online about your favorite MMO, and you are sure that you yourself are not suffering the effects of an addict, then bear in mind that your are actually arguing with an addict and the realisation of this will better help you understand where the Troll/Fanboy is coming from.

Also bear this in mind when addressing game devs and producers on the forums, although I believe they must realise this already and take a lot of unnecessary crap from we the gamer when there is something wrong with our fix!

Hmm..

wonder why no one is going to tell you that you are wrong..

Well.. I guess I will. None of your assumptions are based on fact or evidence. Here.. I'll help.

Fact: Gathering in a group to get food or safety works. FACT in MMORPGs there is NO reason for FOOD or SAFETY.

Fact: Men complete to breed and keep the species alive. Men Fight over food.. and ultimately to keep their bloodline active. FACT .. who ever breeds in MMORPG's.. need to get a hooker or something.. Also account for crafters..

Right.. you can't.

Tribal Warfare? LOL.. Yeah.. because we have PRIDE and can BRAG about our exploits? How does this SAVE the family and continue the bloodline?

Humans are basic. It all boils down to --- Keep the species alive. MMORPG's.. aren't that.. they are an outlet or a form of entertainment. Your parralles are lacking and your grouping is horrid.

dikky · November 2008

i troll all the time and i haven't played an mmorpg since the NGE in swg, so about 3 years now?

Kyleran · November 2008

Originally posted by teiohFromSWG

i troll all the time and i haven't played an mmorpg since the NGE in swg, so about 3 years now?

You're addicted to trolling?

I think its more basic. Ever ask yourself why people are rabid fans of professional sports teams, to the point that they'll fight or even kill each other over which one is better?

That makes no sense to me either, yet it happens all the time for no rational reason. So why should people be rabid fans of MMO games? Same thing IMO.

VultureSkull · November 2008

Originally posted by SupderD

Hmm..
wonder why no one is going to tell you that you are wrong..
Maybe because i am not
Well.. I guess I will. None of your assumptions are based on fact or evidence. Here.. I'll help.
Fact: Gathering in a group to get food or safety works. FACT in MMORPGs there is NO reason for FOOD or SAFETY. Of course there is no reason for Food or safety, whoever said there was,
what i said was "So whether you realise it or not this satisfies some inner desire to have more and more and keep it all."
Not that you do this casue you want to feel safe and need food ROFL!
I cant be bother to go through the rest of you naive post, work the rest out by yourself.Fact: Men complete to breed and keep the species alive. Men Fight over food.. and ultimately to keep their bloodline active. FACT .. who ever breeds in MMORPG's.. need to get a hooker or something.. Also account for crafters..

Right.. you can't.
Tribal Warfare? LOL.. Yeah.. because we have PRIDE and can BRAG about our exploits? How does this SAVE the family and continue the bloodline?

Humans are basic. It all boils down to --- Keep the species alive. MMORPG's.. aren't that.. they are an outlet or a form of entertainment. Your parralles are lacking and your grouping is horrid.

See my comments in RED

I think you missed the ball totally lol.

You should read my OP again, slowly and not take things so literally.

I am talking about INSTINCT, which means that because our fore-fathers gathered food, our genes are programmed to find this kind of thing pleasurable, and hence when we do so in the game we enjoy it.

Google, the word INSTINCT as i dont think you know what this means, off the top of my head, do you know why when a dog wants to lie down he goes around and around in circle before actually lying down?

It is Instinct that has been programmed into it over many many years, as dogs need to make space in the grass for a place to lie down before doing so.(there are a few other reasons attributed to this behaviour)

But they still do it when they want to lie down in a modern day house on the carptet with no grass within a 100 meters, there ends my lesson for today.

Apply the same concept to the rest of my post and you will begin to understand what I am saying.

VultureSkull · November 2008

Originally posted by popinjay

Have you ever argued with an addict about his favourite drug, try telling them that it is crap or his drug is not the funky-est that yours is etc.

Can't say that I have. Neither have I I don't think I know any drug addicts lol Neither do I. But I also know things that i have not expereinced directly, for example i know that it is cold out in space although i have never been out there!! I am sure I've have met some but I don't think we had some arguments about their favorite drug, and I'm sure they would'nt be defending a drug, just their right to use it as personal choice. I usually stay away from those sort of folks cause usually, the cops aren't too far behind them. Meh you have very little imagination, can you not imagine waht it would be like?

I think troll/fanboism is just a combination of two things that humans have:

1. Curiosity. We love to see the crash. Don't believe it? Drive down any road and see an accident or where something has happened. Very few people will keep on driving by without even taking a PEEK (go ahead, say you did.) and sometimes they cause another crash or event just due to the rubbernecking going on. It's this way with games people pop in to see what's going on and how bad the crash was and who got hurt. If we hear some fool is gonna try and jump over this/that, swim this/that fight this/that, well, we are all ears to see it. We take sides and we bet. That's all. Which leads to: Curiosity, eh? A troll will come to a forum just to see a game crash? I dont think so, I have never been to say the ArchLord forums just to see if the game will crash or not, or maybe because i am not a troll.

What about the AOC trolls the game crashed already and they were still trolling it!

From the point of view of a neutral, a troll has extreme ideas about how bad a game is, in my post i am talking about why this extreme-ness exists.

2. Winners. People want to be on the side of a winner. The "I told you so" factor is too great an inducement. The fact that you pin your hopes and dreams on this game, and I bet against it is a battle all in itself. The more you defend what I think is worthless, the more I attack it. It's a form of PvP all in itself without the bugs and server population problems. Plenty of people to play and gawk/spectate. Down the line when your game fails, well, "I told you so and I'm smarter than you". When my game succeeds against all odds and captures a world market, well, "You sure don't know what you are talking about huh? It's the WORLD thats blind, not you". This goes on forever because of curiosity and the need to be right.

WoW is a winner, how many trolls troll that game?

I don't know much about drugs, but I think it has way less to do with any drugs than human nature. Again you missed the ball, i am not talking about drugs, i am talking about addiction, FYI you can be addicted to many thing beside drugs, food, porn, crime gambling etc.

See my comments in Red

Again my advice to you is to re-read my OP slowly, who said it has anything to do with drugs?

I am talking about Human nature and our basic natural instincts.

Gyrus · November 2008

Originally posted by talismen351

So what about the troll/fanboy that has never actually played the game because it has not been released yet? I see more of that in a game not yet released than I do of actual games released.

This.

VultureSkull, the definitions you appear to be using for fanboi & troll are completely different to conventional usage.

You describe an addicted game player or addicted gamer in your post and the reason for this game driven behaviour.

These people are addicted in the same way an addicted gambler is addicted.

The terms 'fanboi' (please note the spelling) and 'troll' refer to forum poster behaviour.

As the quoted poster says - you can find these posters on game forums for games that have not even been released yet.

And a fanboi is not equivalent to an addict... it is more akin to a religious zealot.

As for what motivates these people?

I have a number of theories including;

-the need to belong to a group and gain acceptance.

-the need for recognition.

-a need to be considered 'a part' or 'an important part' of something greater than they themselves could ever hope to achieve

== and that last point is critical - as many people who are fanbois lack critical thinking skills (evidenced by their posts) which means that they could never in fact be successful game designers in their own right.

-a need to feel their input is important and actually makes a difference.

These people are characterized by their fanatical following of a game or developer to the point where they will ignore even established and proven facts.

But the fanboi group also includes a more sinister group - these people are often leaders within the fanboi group. These people are in fact able to use critical thought processes BUT they have an alterior motive which leads them to the fanboi group which they manipulate to their own ends.

The goal of these people is to direct Developers to change or alter game design to a style which suits the needs and desires of their group. They do this by directing 'popular opinion' (of fanbois) and are active in developer forums in the development / beta phase.

They have by far their greatest success with weak willed or indecisive developers.

And finally, sadly, genuine 'fans' of a game will often be lumped in with the fanbois. Oddly, genuine fans of the game are also often considered trolls. This is because they actually enjoy the game and wish to see it improved.

Trolls on the other hand are more problematic to define - largely because 99% of 'trolls' are called that by fanbois.

However, in the eyes of a zealot, anyone who does not conform is a heathen?

Some trolls are the counter to fanbois and exist for that very purpose.

There are some genuine trolls who for some reason exist to attempt to undermine a game or developer. In some cases these people may be attempting to address a perceived 'past wrong' and share the psychology of 'spurned lovers'.

But for the most part a 'troll' is a fanboi label for anyone who disagrees with them.

Hows that?

iZakaroN · November 2008

Originally posted by spades07

I'm not an addict I can quit anytime I want.

Me too, just not want

VultureSkull · November 2008

Originally posted by Gyrus

Originally posted by talismen351

So what about the troll/fanboy that has never actually played the game because it has not been released yet? I see more of that in a game not yet released than I do of actual games released.