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Any good single player RPGS?

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  • SteelroseSteelrose Member UncommonPosts: 215
    Originally posted by cukimunga

    Originally posted by Steelrose




     
    This is definition of FPS: 
    Definition: A First Person Shooter (FPS) is a genre of video game in which the player sees the game from a first-person point of view (as if they were the game character), and which has a focus on shooting (or otherwise killing or disabling) enemies.
    Oblivion has a STRONG focus on killing, running, jumping etc... It's action based game. I repeat myself. Oblivion, KOTOR, Mass Effect are all FPS. It doesn't matter how much RP features it has, how many character development choices, how many quests whatever. The point is. The main gameplay in these games is consisted of combat. And the combat is swinging, aiming from the first person perspective.
    The choices about paladin and aligments that you mentioned is irrelevant. You can play these kinds of aligments in Far Cry as well. You may pretend your character can't swim or your character is afraid of hights and never look down from cliff, or that you character never shoot anyone from behind. These are the same alligment and characteristics as playing a paladin that never kills any human in Oblivion that you mentioned. BUT THAT DOESN'T MAKE FAR CRY RPG.

     

    I agree that all ME and Oblivion have 1st and 3rd person views and combat is in those views, but changing the combat from a traditional turned based RPG dosen't just make it a FPS alone.

    My definition of FPS:

    A game where you are in a First person view which has a focus on shooting, there is no character development or levels and  no base stats. 

     

    My definition of an RPG in a video game.

    Any kinda of game from any kind of view that does have: character development, and levels and base stats that can be progressed or skills that can be progressed.  They take their name from the settings and game mechanics which they inherit from early role-playing games. their choices shape the direction and outcome of the game, but is more linear compared to the freedom of tabletop RPG's.

    RPG as in tabletop:

    Is a game in which the participants assume the roles of fictional characters.Participants determine the actions of their characters based on their characterization, and the actions succeed or fail according to a formal or non-formal system of rules and guidelines.Within the rules, players have the freedom to improvise; their choices shape the direction and outcome of the game.

     

    Now there might be sub genres,  Like ME is a FPSRPG or a TPSRPG I can agree that Oblivion could be a FPSActionRPG or a TPSActionRPG.  But thy just are not plain old regular run of the mill FPS they are hybrids but the core of the game is still RPG. Atleast I see it that way and the majority of people do as well.

     

    Now about the Role playing the paladin part is where you just confused me.  I thought you said RPG is a way to play a character.  In the way you described I thought you were talking about what I was talking about.  And your right, in a way you could Role Play a character in any kind of game, but does it make it an RPG? NO its "the mechanics which they inherit from early role-playing games"  that makes them RPG's.



     

     

     



     

    No! It's not about mechanics. You can have extremly difficult character customization in FPS game with extreme difficult mechanics that would affect the damage that you deal for example, it's still FPS.

    It's about gameplay, about what you do when you play. If most of the gameplay is consisted of running around, shooting things / aiming with your cursor or attacking with your blade from First Person perspective, it's FPS. And you can't play Oblivion as a pure RPG. The main quest line requires LOTS of fightning that can't be avoided. And fight means FPS aiming.

    If Planescape Torment would be given 3d style and first person camera, it would not turn into FPS. Because 95% of the time in Planescape Torment you spend in dialogues. But in Oblivion, 95% of the time you spend running around or in combat, just like in Far Cry.

    For me Oblivion is 95% FPS 5% RPG, just like for instance Warcraft 3 was 95% RTS 5% RPG. Why noone actually mentions Warcraft 3 as possible RPG? It has the same complex mechanics, you collect items, there are quests, your hero levels up, gain new abilities and you even can choose these abilities. You know why? Because 95% of the gameplay is about managing your army. Its RTS. Just like Oblivion is FPS. I don't care how much they payed for the publicity so every major magazine calls it RPG, or how old are there actual so called self-titled reviewers. Oblivion is NOT RPG.

  • SteelroseSteelrose Member UncommonPosts: 215

    I hate FPS! I never played FPS and I never will. Why does all these so called RPG developers force me to aim with my cursor when I want to play a roleplaying game?? At least give me some new version of Wizardry  that had turn-based first person perspective combat. I stopped dreaming about another isometric RPG 3 years ago.

  • KrayzjoelKrayzjoel Member Posts: 906

    Fallout 3 and Fable 2

    Played : WOW, LOTRO, COH/COV, EQ2, SWG, and WAR.
    Playing EVE Online and AOC.
    Wtg for SW:TOR and WOD

  • SovrathSovrath Member LegendaryPosts: 30,802
    Originally posted by Steelrose


    I hate FPS! I never played FPS and I never will. Why does all these so called RPG developers force me to aim with my cursor when I want to play a roleplaying game?? At least give me some new version of Wizardry  that had turn-based first person perspective combat. I stopped dreaming about another isometric RPG 3 years ago.



     

    I don't see why that is a problem. So what  if you have to aim with a cursor?

    Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb." 

    Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w


    Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547

    Try the "Special Edition." 'Cause it's "Special." https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrimspecialedition/mods/64878/?tab=description

    Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo 
  • SteelroseSteelrose Member UncommonPosts: 215
    Originally posted by Sovrath

    Originally posted by Steelrose


    I hate FPS! I never played FPS and I never will. Why does all these so called RPG developers force me to aim with my cursor when I want to play a roleplaying game?? At least give me some new version of Wizardry  that had turn-based first person perspective combat. I stopped dreaming about another isometric RPG 3 years ago.



     

    I don't see why that is a problem. So what  if you have to aim with a cursor?



     

    Because, it means its FPS and I HATE FPS. Im not playing FPS because I have to aim with my cursor. It's stressful to aim, it's too much based on reflexes and my own dexterity and I don't want that. I like to play a slow preferably turn-based isometric game with a lot of time to think. And there's no RPG like that anymore. Everything that's getting released lately are FPS-style games so it pleases the majority of gamers (console-gamers), because that's what sells.

     

  • SovrathSovrath Member LegendaryPosts: 30,802
    Originally posted by Steelrose

    Originally posted by cukimunga

    Originally posted by Steelrose




     
    This is definition of FPS: 
    Definition: A First Person Shooter (FPS) is a genre of video game in which the player sees the game from a first-person point of view (as if they were the game character), and which has a focus on shooting (or otherwise killing or disabling) enemies.
    Oblivion has a STRONG focus on killing, running, jumping etc... It's action based game. I repeat myself. Oblivion, KOTOR, Mass Effect are all FPS. It doesn't matter how much RP features it has, how many character development choices, how many quests whatever. The point is. The main gameplay in these games is consisted of combat. And the combat is swinging, aiming from the first person perspective.
    The choices about paladin and aligments that you mentioned is irrelevant. You can play these kinds of aligments in Far Cry as well. You may pretend your character can't swim or your character is afraid of hights and never look down from cliff, or that you character never shoot anyone from behind. These are the same alligment and characteristics as playing a paladin that never kills any human in Oblivion that you mentioned. BUT THAT DOESN'T MAKE FAR CRY RPG.

     

    I agree that all ME and Oblivion have 1st and 3rd person views and combat is in those views, but changing the combat from a traditional turned based RPG dosen't just make it a FPS alone.

    My definition of FPS:

    A game where you are in a First person view which has a focus on shooting, there is no character development or levels and  no base stats. 

     

    My definition of an RPG in a video game.

    Any kinda of game from any kind of view that does have: character development, and levels and base stats that can be progressed or skills that can be progressed.  They take their name from the settings and game mechanics which they inherit from early role-playing games. their choices shape the direction and outcome of the game, but is more linear compared to the freedom of tabletop RPG's.

    RPG as in tabletop:

    Is a game in which the participants assume the roles of fictional characters.Participants determine the actions of their characters based on their characterization, and the actions succeed or fail according to a formal or non-formal system of rules and guidelines.Within the rules, players have the freedom to improvise; their choices shape the direction and outcome of the game.

     

    Now there might be sub genres,  Like ME is a FPSRPG or a TPSRPG I can agree that Oblivion could be a FPSActionRPG or a TPSActionRPG.  But thy just are not plain old regular run of the mill FPS they are hybrids but the core of the game is still RPG. Atleast I see it that way and the majority of people do as well.

     

    Now about the Role playing the paladin part is where you just confused me.  I thought you said RPG is a way to play a character.  In the way you described I thought you were talking about what I was talking about.  And your right, in a way you could Role Play a character in any kind of game, but does it make it an RPG? NO its "the mechanics which they inherit from early role-playing games"  that makes them RPG's.



     

     

     



     

    No! It's not about mechanics. You can have extremly difficult character customization in FPS game with extreme difficult mechanics that would affect the damage that you deal for example, it's still FPS.

    It's about gameplay, about what you do when you play. If most of the gameplay is consisted of running around, shooting things / aiming with your cursor or attacking with your blade from First Person perspective, it's FPS. And you can't play Oblivion as a pure RPG. The main quest line requires LOTS of fightning that can't be avoided. And fight means FPS aiming.

    If Planescape Torment would be given 3d style and first person camera, it would not turn into FPS. Because 95% of the time in Planescape Torment you spend in dialogues. But in Oblivion, 95% of the time you spend running around or in combat, just like in Far Cry.

    For me Oblivion is 95% FPS 5% RPG, just like for instance Warcraft 3 was 95% RTS 5% RPG. Why noone actually mentions Warcraft 3 as possible RPG? It has the same complex mechanics, you collect items, there are quests, your hero levels up, gain new abilities and you even can choose these abilities. You know why? Because 95% of the gameplay is about managing your army. Its RTS. Just like Oblivion is FPS. I don't care how much they payed for the publicity so every major magazine calls it RPG, or how old are there actual so called self-titled reviewers. Oblivion is NOT RPG.



     

    Well if that is the case then most games are no rpg's. So what you are asking is to play a game where you can be a grocer in a fantasy world?

    Look, these games stem from players wanting to be either a hero or some sort of side kick to a hero. Oblivioin is a rpg. It might require you to use a cursor to aim but so what? (as I said to the other gentleman).

    That's just a game mechanic. Are you asking for an "i win" button so that you don't put forth any effort?

    It seems to me that you are too caught up in game mechanics.

    I play Oblivion as an RPG. I add and discard things as I wish. So, invisibility in Oblivion seemed like a game breaker though it has its advantages. I then made a rule only to use it under certain circumstances. I then adopted a certain personality for the character and played that character appropriately.

    Now, I don't want to be a grocer in Oblvion so of course I went out there to smite evil (or good). I can agree with you in that the main quest does force you into a bit of a role, but you can easily role play this if you had the imagination to do so.

    For my evil characters it was simple. Though my character was evil, Mehrunes Dagon (sp?) was a threat to what my character wanted and it was important to side with whoever I needed to in order to bring him down.

    Is it total freedom where I can join Mehrunes Dagon? No, it's not. Quite frankly it would be better if you had that option. But that does not make it a "non rpg". It does make it an rpg where the choices are limited. But it still does not discount that you can roleplay a character in it.

    And in the end, no one is forcing you to play the main story anyway. My apartment mate never really got far in the story. He got as far as escorting Martin to Cloud Ruler Temple and that was it. He was finished with the main story and set about to do the quests in the game as well as explore.

    That's the beauty of it.

    I applaud them making the combat exciting where you can actually die if you aren't good enough.

    But what's that you say? in your game you are the best swordmaster and there should never be a chance that you die? No worries, put the game on easy and you can blaze through everything.

    I'm sorry but you come across as a bit of a bean counter. Someone who loves rules and really needs them to define things.

    Why can't a rpg utilize fps mechanics? Why can't a FPS incorporate rpg elements? Is it really that important to keep these things separate?

    Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb." 

    Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w


    Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547

    Try the "Special Edition." 'Cause it's "Special." https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrimspecialedition/mods/64878/?tab=description

    Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo 
  • SteelroseSteelrose Member UncommonPosts: 215

    Why are you talking about something completely different in all your 20 lines? Combat doesn't mean anything. Combat is in RTS, RPG, FPS, Turn-based whatever. It's about the style of playing. If there would be turn-based combat in Oblivion like it is in Wizardry series, then it would be definetly a great RPG. But with the FPS aiming combat its just FPS.

    About what skill are you talking about for christ's sake? I don't give a shit about some illusionary skill you're talking about. I want to have fun and not get stressed by my slow reflexes and bad aiming at the monsters.

    Did you play Wizardry 7 or 8? That's my favourite RPG series. The combat is not stressful, you have to THINK when you play and not just aim with your cursor. That's a skill in my vocabulary.

  • SovrathSovrath Member LegendaryPosts: 30,802
    Originally posted by Steelrose


    Why are you talking about something completely different in all your 20 lines? Combat doesn't mean anything. Combat is in RTS, RPG, FPS, Turn-based whatever. It's about the style of playing. If there would be turn-based combat in Oblivion like it is in Wizardry series, then it would be definetly a great RPG. But with the FPS aiming combat its just FPS.
    About what skill are you talking about for christ's sake? I don't give a shit about some illusionary skill you're talking about. I want to have fun and not get stressed by my slow reflexes and bad aiming at the monsters.
    Did you play Wizardry 7 or 8? That's my favourite RPG series. The combat is not stressful, you have to THINK when you play and not just aim with your cursor. That's a skill in my vocabulary.

    Ok so first you say combat doesn't matter then you say if it was turn based it would be good?

     

    But yes, it is about style of playing and as I said, you can adopt a persona or role in Oblviion. As far as "thinking" when you are playing, you discount that there is actual thought that goes on during combat in Oblviion. Heck, spell casting is like that. Have you ever had a battle which was predominantly spell casting? It's practically turn based.

    I don't know Wizardry 7 or 8 and will look into them. However, I maintain that because you can adopt a role and even choose how you play the game, that Oblivion is a role play game. And as I said, if you have slow reflexes, you can put the combat on easy and the problem is solved.

    Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb." 

    Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w


    Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547

    Try the "Special Edition." 'Cause it's "Special." https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrimspecialedition/mods/64878/?tab=description

    Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo 
  • pileopooppileopoop Member Posts: 91
    Originally posted by Steelrose


    Why are you talking about something completely different in all your 20 lines? Combat doesn't mean anything. Combat is in RTS, RPG, FPS, Turn-based whatever. It's about the style of playing. If there would be turn-based combat in Oblivion like it is in Wizardry series, then it would be definetly a great RPG. But with the FPS aiming combat its just FPS.
    About what skill are you talking about for christ's sake? I don't give a shit about some illusionary skill you're talking about. I want to have fun and not get stressed by my slow reflexes and bad aiming at the monsters.
    Did you play Wizardry 7 or 8? That's my favourite RPG series. The combat is not stressful, you have to THINK when you play and not just aim with your cursor. That's a skill in my vocabulary.

     

    You are very ignorant and no one on these forums agrees with you. Stop posting.

  • SteelroseSteelrose Member UncommonPosts: 215
    Originally posted by Sovrath

    Originally posted by Steelrose


    Why are you talking about something completely different in all your 20 lines? Combat doesn't mean anything. Combat is in RTS, RPG, FPS, Turn-based whatever. It's about the style of playing. If there would be turn-based combat in Oblivion like it is in Wizardry series, then it would be definetly a great RPG. But with the FPS aiming combat its just FPS.
    About what skill are you talking about for christ's sake? I don't give a shit about some illusionary skill you're talking about. I want to have fun and not get stressed by my slow reflexes and bad aiming at the monsters.
    Did you play Wizardry 7 or 8? That's my favourite RPG series. The combat is not stressful, you have to THINK when you play and not just aim with your cursor. That's a skill in my vocabulary.

    Ok so first you say combat doesn't matter then you say if it was turn based it would be good?

     

    But yes, it is about style of playing and as I said, you can adopt a persona or role in Oblviion. As far as "thinking" when you are playing, you discount that there is actual thought that goes on during combat in Oblviion. Heck, spell casting is like that. Have you ever had a battle which was predominantly spell casting? It's practically turn based.

    I don't know Wizardry 7 or 8 and will look into them. However, I maintain that because you can adopt a role and even choose how you play the game, that Oblivion is a role play game. And as I said, if you have slow reflexes, you can put the combat on easy and the problem is solved.



     

    You are trying to give me a lecture of what is RPG and you don't know Wizardry series? 

    Spellcasting turned? What are you talking about. It's like a regular FPS where both shooters have a gun with just one bullet and have to reload after every shot. You still need to aim with your cursor if you cast a spell just like you do when you shoot in first person shooters.

    You can't play any way you want in Oblivion! You can't avoid the FPS combat whether it is ranged shooting, melee fighting or spellcasting. You can avoid roleplaying aspects (customization is minimal and basically automated, dialogues can be clicked over ...). Therefore the main feature of the game is FPS-que combat which is unavoidable and that makes the gameplay most of the time.

    To the poster above me: I don't mind fightning the herd that was fooled by reviewers.

  • SteelroseSteelrose Member UncommonPosts: 215

    Wizardry was the first game ever made that used WSAD key movement. It had 8 series and it's the most fame RPG's of all time. Play it someday, and maybe you find out a difference between RPG and FPS.

  • cukimungacukimunga Member UncommonPosts: 2,258
    Originally posted by Steelrose

    Originally posted by cukimunga

    Originally posted by Steelrose




     
    This is definition of FPS: 
    Definition: A First Person Shooter (FPS) is a genre of video game in which the player sees the game from a first-person point of view (as if they were the game character), and which has a focus on shooting (or otherwise killing or disabling) enemies.
    Oblivion has a STRONG focus on killing, running, jumping etc... It's action based game. I repeat myself. Oblivion, KOTOR, Mass Effect are all FPS. It doesn't matter how much RP features it has, how many character development choices, how many quests whatever. The point is. The main gameplay in these games is consisted of combat. And the combat is swinging, aiming from the first person perspective.
    The choices about paladin and aligments that you mentioned is irrelevant. You can play these kinds of aligments in Far Cry as well. You may pretend your character can't swim or your character is afraid of hights and never look down from cliff, or that you character never shoot anyone from behind. These are the same alligment and characteristics as playing a paladin that never kills any human in Oblivion that you mentioned. BUT THAT DOESN'T MAKE FAR CRY RPG.

     

    I agree that all ME and Oblivion have 1st and 3rd person views and combat is in those views, but changing the combat from a traditional turned based RPG dosen't just make it a FPS alone.

    My definition of FPS:

    A game where you are in a First person view which has a focus on shooting, there is no character development or levels and  no base stats. 

     

    My definition of an RPG in a video game.

    Any kinda of game from any kind of view that does have: character development, and levels and base stats that can be progressed or skills that can be progressed.  They take their name from the settings and game mechanics which they inherit from early role-playing games. their choices shape the direction and outcome of the game, but is more linear compared to the freedom of tabletop RPG's.

    RPG as in tabletop:

    Is a game in which the participants assume the roles of fictional characters.Participants determine the actions of their characters based on their characterization, and the actions succeed or fail according to a formal or non-formal system of rules and guidelines.Within the rules, players have the freedom to improvise; their choices shape the direction and outcome of the game.

     

    Now there might be sub genres,  Like ME is a FPSRPG or a TPSRPG I can agree that Oblivion could be a FPSActionRPG or a TPSActionRPG.  But thy just are not plain old regular run of the mill FPS they are hybrids but the core of the game is still RPG. Atleast I see it that way and the majority of people do as well.

     

    Now about the Role playing the paladin part is where you just confused me.  I thought you said RPG is a way to play a character.  In the way you described I thought you were talking about what I was talking about.  And your right, in a way you could Role Play a character in any kind of game, but does it make it an RPG? NO its "the mechanics which they inherit from early role-playing games"  that makes them RPG's.



     

     

     



     

    No! It's not about mechanics. You can have extremly difficult character customization in FPS game with extreme difficult mechanics that would affect the damage that you deal for example, it's still FPS.

    It's about gameplay, about what you do when you play. If most of the gameplay is consisted of running around, shooting things / aiming with your cursor or attacking with your blade from First Person perspective, it's FPS. And you can't play Oblivion as a pure RPG. The main quest line requires LOTS of fightning that can't be avoided. And fight means FPS aiming.

    If Planescape Torment would be given 3d style and first person camera, it would not turn into FPS. Because 95% of the time in Planescape Torment you spend in dialogues. But in Oblivion, 95% of the time you spend running around or in combat, just like in Far Cry.

    For me Oblivion is 95% FPS 5% RPG, just like for instance Warcraft 3 was 95% RTS 5% RPG. Why noone actually mentions Warcraft 3 as possible RPG? It has the same complex mechanics, you collect items, there are quests, your hero levels up, gain new abilities and you even can choose these abilities. You know why? Because 95% of the gameplay is about managing your army. Its RTS. Just like Oblivion is FPS. I don't care how much they payed for the publicity so every major magazine calls it RPG, or how old are there actual so called self-titled reviewers. Oblivion is NOT RPG.

     

    So what I read from that RPG = being in dialog?  

     

    I give up on debating  what an RPG is, you just stick to what your idea of what one is and I'll stick to mine.

  • AntariousAntarious Member UncommonPosts: 2,827

    Well I'm going to skip the debate...

    Personally I'm playing Fallout 3.. glad I bought it and having fun.

    I even bought the collectors edition and don't regret it.

    /shrug

     

  • SteelroseSteelrose Member UncommonPosts: 215
    Originally posted by cukimunga

    Originally posted by Steelrose

    Originally posted by cukimunga

    Originally posted by Steelrose




     
    This is definition of FPS: 
    Definition: A First Person Shooter (FPS) is a genre of video game in which the player sees the game from a first-person point of view (as if they were the game character), and which has a focus on shooting (or otherwise killing or disabling) enemies.
    Oblivion has a STRONG focus on killing, running, jumping etc... It's action based game. I repeat myself. Oblivion, KOTOR, Mass Effect are all FPS. It doesn't matter how much RP features it has, how many character development choices, how many quests whatever. The point is. The main gameplay in these games is consisted of combat. And the combat is swinging, aiming from the first person perspective.
    The choices about paladin and aligments that you mentioned is irrelevant. You can play these kinds of aligments in Far Cry as well. You may pretend your character can't swim or your character is afraid of hights and never look down from cliff, or that you character never shoot anyone from behind. These are the same alligment and characteristics as playing a paladin that never kills any human in Oblivion that you mentioned. BUT THAT DOESN'T MAKE FAR CRY RPG.

     

    I agree that all ME and Oblivion have 1st and 3rd person views and combat is in those views, but changing the combat from a traditional turned based RPG dosen't just make it a FPS alone.

    My definition of FPS:

    A game where you are in a First person view which has a focus on shooting, there is no character development or levels and  no base stats. 

     

    My definition of an RPG in a video game.

    Any kinda of game from any kind of view that does have: character development, and levels and base stats that can be progressed or skills that can be progressed.  They take their name from the settings and game mechanics which they inherit from early role-playing games. their choices shape the direction and outcome of the game, but is more linear compared to the freedom of tabletop RPG's.

    RPG as in tabletop:

    Is a game in which the participants assume the roles of fictional characters.Participants determine the actions of their characters based on their characterization, and the actions succeed or fail according to a formal or non-formal system of rules and guidelines.Within the rules, players have the freedom to improvise; their choices shape the direction and outcome of the game.

     

    Now there might be sub genres,  Like ME is a FPSRPG or a TPSRPG I can agree that Oblivion could be a FPSActionRPG or a TPSActionRPG.  But thy just are not plain old regular run of the mill FPS they are hybrids but the core of the game is still RPG. Atleast I see it that way and the majority of people do as well.

     

    Now about the Role playing the paladin part is where you just confused me.  I thought you said RPG is a way to play a character.  In the way you described I thought you were talking about what I was talking about.  And your right, in a way you could Role Play a character in any kind of game, but does it make it an RPG? NO its "the mechanics which they inherit from early role-playing games"  that makes them RPG's.



     

     

     



     

    No! It's not about mechanics. You can have extremly difficult character customization in FPS game with extreme difficult mechanics that would affect the damage that you deal for example, it's still FPS.

    It's about gameplay, about what you do when you play. If most of the gameplay is consisted of running around, shooting things / aiming with your cursor or attacking with your blade from First Person perspective, it's FPS. And you can't play Oblivion as a pure RPG. The main quest line requires LOTS of fightning that can't be avoided. And fight means FPS aiming.

    If Planescape Torment would be given 3d style and first person camera, it would not turn into FPS. Because 95% of the time in Planescape Torment you spend in dialogues. But in Oblivion, 95% of the time you spend running around or in combat, just like in Far Cry.

    For me Oblivion is 95% FPS 5% RPG, just like for instance Warcraft 3 was 95% RTS 5% RPG. Why noone actually mentions Warcraft 3 as possible RPG? It has the same complex mechanics, you collect items, there are quests, your hero levels up, gain new abilities and you even can choose these abilities. You know why? Because 95% of the gameplay is about managing your army. Its RTS. Just like Oblivion is FPS. I don't care how much they payed for the publicity so every major magazine calls it RPG, or how old are there actual so called self-titled reviewers. Oblivion is NOT RPG.

     

    So what I read from that RPG = being in dialog?  

     

    I give up on debating  what an RPG is, you just stick to what your idea of what one is and I'll stick to mine.



     

    It is the gamestyle. Indeed, Oblivion would be a tremendous RPG with turn-based combat and without level scaling and with an actual character customization. But the way it is now, it's a bit more complex FPS.

    There is no exact definition for RPG but there is exact definition for FPS. Any game with first person perspective and with live-action aiming with your cursor is FPS. Oblivion is FPS. Most of its content IS FPS therefore it is FPS. What's so hard to understand?

    I repeat my example of a regular 30 minute gameplay in Oblivion: 5 minutes running around in town getting rumours and quests. 10 minute running towards a site (using a compass) and fightning monsters on the road. And then 15 minutes fightning quest mobs on site (usually multilayered dungeon)

    There is constant on-going action in Oblivion from first person perspective that requires you to aim with your cursor -> THEREFORE ITS FPS. First person shooter involves shooting or otherwise killing enemies in first person perspective. What information in this definition is hard to understand?

  • SteelroseSteelrose Member UncommonPosts: 215

    Do you know why Tabula Rasa was presented as MMOFPS all the time? Because the original combat system was aiming. It still had thousands of quests, customization, itemization etc. But the combat made it MMOFPS. They later changed the combat into auto-aim and started to call it a mix of mmofps and mmorpg.

  • SovrathSovrath Member LegendaryPosts: 30,802
    Originally posted by Steelrose

    Originally posted by Sovrath

    Originally posted by Steelrose


    Why are you talking about something completely different in all your 20 lines? Combat doesn't mean anything. Combat is in RTS, RPG, FPS, Turn-based whatever. It's about the style of playing. If there would be turn-based combat in Oblivion like it is in Wizardry series, then it would be definetly a great RPG. But with the FPS aiming combat its just FPS.
    About what skill are you talking about for christ's sake? I don't give a shit about some illusionary skill you're talking about. I want to have fun and not get stressed by my slow reflexes and bad aiming at the monsters.
    Did you play Wizardry 7 or 8? That's my favourite RPG series. The combat is not stressful, you have to THINK when you play and not just aim with your cursor. That's a skill in my vocabulary.

    Ok so first you say combat doesn't matter then you say if it was turn based it would be good?

     

    But yes, it is about style of playing and as I said, you can adopt a persona or role in Oblviion. As far as "thinking" when you are playing, you discount that there is actual thought that goes on during combat in Oblviion. Heck, spell casting is like that. Have you ever had a battle which was predominantly spell casting? It's practically turn based.

    I don't know Wizardry 7 or 8 and will look into them. However, I maintain that because you can adopt a role and even choose how you play the game, that Oblivion is a role play game. And as I said, if you have slow reflexes, you can put the combat on easy and the problem is solved.



     

    You are trying to give me a lecture of what is RPG and you don't know Wizardry series? 

    Spellcasting turned? What are you talking about.

     I knew this would confuse you, and I suppose it was a bit of a stretch but this is the example.  If you are in the process of fighting and you want to bring up a particular spell that is not immediately available on your hot bar you can bring up the menu and select one from a list. This stops the action completely and allows you to plan depending upon your particular situation. It is not a turn "per se" but it does allow for planning and changing tactics. Something you had complained about as you are inferring that one can't think during fighting. Truth be told, on my way home and before I voted *plug... plug...*) I thougth about how wrong you are. In an fps, you do think. It does require physical reflex, true, but it is not easy and does require quick thinking. But in no way does that affect whether or not you play a role in oblivion.

    It's like a regular FPS where both shooters have a gun with just one bullet and have to reload after every shot. You still need to aim with your cursor if you cast a spell just like you do when you shoot in first person shooters.

    You can't play any way you want in Oblivion! You can't avoid the FPS combat whether it is ranged shooting, melee fighting or spellcasting. You can avoid roleplaying aspects (customization is minimal and basically automated, dialogues can be clicked over ...). Therefore the main feature of the game is FPS-que combat which is unavoidable and that makes the gameplay most of the time.

    But the thing is you can avoid the combat. You can run, you can sneak, you can use invisability, etc. Now, there might be quests where you have to kill someone so I suppose there would be some combat there.

    I am currently playing through the game again and I am aware that there are killing quests. But that does not determine whether or not it's a rpg. An rpg allows you to fill a role and then you determine your reaction to encounters based on that role. You can do this in Oblviion. However, there are times when you will have to kill. So are you saying that in a rpg there is never any killing of any sort? Because quite frankly I don't know of

    To the poster above me: I don't mind fightning the herd that was fooled by reviewers.



     

    No I don't know the Wizardry series but if you are trying to define a genre based upon a series where the last game was made 7 or so years ago then you clearly don't accpet the fact that things evolve.

    I can't say if the wizardry series is a great rpg or not. I can only go on what i have experience from games that are considered rpg's. however, due to limitations, video games can't adopt as free of a story as, say, a D&D rpg. so is Baldur's Gate not a role play game? I seem to recall that you can't avoid killing there. Same with Neverwinter Nights. And now that I've done some research apparently there is killing in Wizardry 8 and according to one site, there is a quest where you can't get into the rest of a house without killing someone. So it seems that it's not completely free of killing.

    Here is the wikipedia definition:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Role-playing_game

    I think it's apt.  You assume a role. It does say that video games have co-opted the rpg moniker and if one were to argue over the freedome of tabletop or video game then of course one would have to say tabletop has more freedom.

    but it still doesn't preclude you from playing a role.

    So if I wanted to I could get through a good part of oblvion without killing as long as I used such things as invisibility, stealthy, running away of course.

    Now i don't believe you can change the outcome of the story but that is a flaw in the game design in my opinion.

    All I know is that I have played evil sorcerors and good paladins in oblvion. I have obliterated cities and saved guards. This is dependant on the role I play in the world. There are parts of oblvion which I have never experienced because of the choices I've made.

    In the main quest I have chosen to save the son of a count and chosen to let him die. Not huge consequences either way but I had the choice.

    I have the choice to join the dark brotherhood or not. I have the choice to repent my sins from being a murderer or not.

    The largest flaw in oblivioin is that you can't join the evil side or that there aren't consequencees for one quest line where you are asked to kill a variety of people but choose not to.

    so yes, granted, these are flaws and in some ways large flaws. but it still doesn't discount my ability to play a role in the game.

     

    Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb." 

    Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w


    Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547

    Try the "Special Edition." 'Cause it's "Special." https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrimspecialedition/mods/64878/?tab=description

    Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo 
  • checkthis500checkthis500 Member Posts: 1,236
    Originally posted by hater88


    tired of the online thing, gonna take a break, any suggestions?!

     

    what others have said.  Fallout 3 or Mass Effect if you haven't played that yet.

    And if you like shooters with rpg elements i.e. upgrading weapons, health, etc. I would say Dead Space is amazing too.

    ---------------------------------------------
    I live to fight, and fight to live.

  • cukimungacukimunga Member UncommonPosts: 2,258
    Originally posted by Steelrose

    Originally posted by cukimunga

    Originally posted by Steelrose

    Originally posted by cukimunga

    Originally posted by Steelrose




     
    This is definition of FPS: 
    Definition: A First Person Shooter (FPS) is a genre of video game in which the player sees the game from a first-person point of view (as if they were the game character), and which has a focus on shooting (or otherwise killing or disabling) enemies.
    Oblivion has a STRONG focus on killing, running, jumping etc... It's action based game. I repeat myself. Oblivion, KOTOR, Mass Effect are all FPS. It doesn't matter how much RP features it has, how many character development choices, how many quests whatever. The point is. The main gameplay in these games is consisted of combat. And the combat is swinging, aiming from the first person perspective.
    The choices about paladin and aligments that you mentioned is irrelevant. You can play these kinds of aligments in Far Cry as well. You may pretend your character can't swim or your character is afraid of hights and never look down from cliff, or that you character never shoot anyone from behind. These are the same alligment and characteristics as playing a paladin that never kills any human in Oblivion that you mentioned. BUT THAT DOESN'T MAKE FAR CRY RPG.

     

    I agree that all ME and Oblivion have 1st and 3rd person views and combat is in those views, but changing the combat from a traditional turned based RPG dosen't just make it a FPS alone.

    My definition of FPS:

    A game where you are in a First person view which has a focus on shooting, there is no character development or levels and  no base stats. 

     

    My definition of an RPG in a video game.

    Any kinda of game from any kind of view that does have: character development, and levels and base stats that can be progressed or skills that can be progressed.  They take their name from the settings and game mechanics which they inherit from early role-playing games. their choices shape the direction and outcome of the game, but is more linear compared to the freedom of tabletop RPG's.

    RPG as in tabletop:

    Is a game in which the participants assume the roles of fictional characters.Participants determine the actions of their characters based on their characterization, and the actions succeed or fail according to a formal or non-formal system of rules and guidelines.Within the rules, players have the freedom to improvise; their choices shape the direction and outcome of the game.

     

    Now there might be sub genres,  Like ME is a FPSRPG or a TPSRPG I can agree that Oblivion could be a FPSActionRPG or a TPSActionRPG.  But thy just are not plain old regular run of the mill FPS they are hybrids but the core of the game is still RPG. Atleast I see it that way and the majority of people do as well.

     

    Now about the Role playing the paladin part is where you just confused me.  I thought you said RPG is a way to play a character.  In the way you described I thought you were talking about what I was talking about.  And your right, in a way you could Role Play a character in any kind of game, but does it make it an RPG? NO its "the mechanics which they inherit from early role-playing games"  that makes them RPG's.



     

     

     



     

    No! It's not about mechanics. You can have extremly difficult character customization in FPS game with extreme difficult mechanics that would affect the damage that you deal for example, it's still FPS.

    It's about gameplay, about what you do when you play. If most of the gameplay is consisted of running around, shooting things / aiming with your cursor or attacking with your blade from First Person perspective, it's FPS. And you can't play Oblivion as a pure RPG. The main quest line requires LOTS of fightning that can't be avoided. And fight means FPS aiming.

    If Planescape Torment would be given 3d style and first person camera, it would not turn into FPS. Because 95% of the time in Planescape Torment you spend in dialogues. But in Oblivion, 95% of the time you spend running around or in combat, just like in Far Cry.

    For me Oblivion is 95% FPS 5% RPG, just like for instance Warcraft 3 was 95% RTS 5% RPG. Why noone actually mentions Warcraft 3 as possible RPG? It has the same complex mechanics, you collect items, there are quests, your hero levels up, gain new abilities and you even can choose these abilities. You know why? Because 95% of the gameplay is about managing your army. Its RTS. Just like Oblivion is FPS. I don't care how much they payed for the publicity so every major magazine calls it RPG, or how old are there actual so called self-titled reviewers. Oblivion is NOT RPG.

     

    So what I read from that RPG = being in dialog?  

     

    I give up on debating  what an RPG is, you just stick to what your idea of what one is and I'll stick to mine.



     

    It is the gamestyle. Indeed, Oblivion would be a tremendous RPG with turn-based combat and without level scaling and with an actual character customization. But the way it is now, it's a bit more complex FPS.

    There is no exact definition for RPG but there is exact definition for FPS. Any game with first person perspective and with live-action aiming with your cursor is FPS. Oblivion is FPS. Most of its content IS FPS therefore it is FPS. What's so hard to understand?

    I repeat my example of a regular 30 minute gameplay in Oblivion: 5 minutes running around in town getting rumours and quests. 10 minute running towards a site (using a compass) and fightning monsters on the road. And then 15 minutes fightning quest mobs on site (usually multilayered dungeon)

    There is constant on-going action in Oblivion from first person perspective that requires you to aim with your cursor -> THEREFORE ITS FPS. First person shooter involves shooting or otherwise killing enemies in first person perspective. What information in this definition is hard to understand?

    Ok I lied im not done.

    "There is no exact definition for RPG but there is exact definition for FPS. Any game with first person perspective and with live-action aiming with your cursor is FPS. Oblivion is FPS. Most of its content IS FPS therefore it is FPS. What's so hard to understand?"

    Well since there is no exact definition for RPG, then I say Oblivion is a RPG with FPS combat.  I think you just can't except these games as RPG because you don't like real time combat.  Things change, look how Rock music has evolved over the years it has different influences and has sub genre's but its still rock at its core.  RPG's are the same  I don't see how you can call Oblivion just a FPS it has so much more depth than a shooter.

     

     

    "First person shooter involves shooting or otherwise killing enemies in first person perspective. What information in this definition is hard to understand?"

     

    Well what you said right there would make Wizardry  a FPS since you are killing people in first person view. Same with Kings Field or any other RPG that is in first person view, even if it is turned base.

     

    Ok now im done ive had enough debates today with this stupid crap and other politcal crap.

     

    Im off to play FFXI

     

     

    Have a nice day, or whatever time it is where your at.

  • UmbralUmbral Member Posts: 1,051

     

    Disciples III

     

    Disciples is a famous RPG/Strategy serie, the upcoming Disciples III looks very promising.

    www.youtube.com/watch

    www.youtube.com/watch

    www.disciples3.ru/main_eng.htm

  • SovrathSovrath Member LegendaryPosts: 30,802
    Originally posted by Umbral


     
    Disciples III
     
    Disciples is a famous RPG/Strategy serie, the upcoming Disciples III looks very promising.
    www.youtube.com/watch
    www.youtube.com/watch
    www.disciples3.ru/main_eng.htm




     

    wow.. that' looks good. thanks.

    Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb." 

    Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w


    Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547

    Try the "Special Edition." 'Cause it's "Special." https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrimspecialedition/mods/64878/?tab=description

    Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo 
  • UmbralUmbral Member Posts: 1,051

    Indeed, the game looks very impressive.

  • miagisanmiagisan Member Posts: 5,156

    oblivion or fallout 3

    image

  • AmazingAveryAmazingAvery Age of Conan AdvocateMember UncommonPosts: 7,188
    Originally posted by Umbral


     
    Disciples III
     
    Disciples is a famous RPG/Strategy serie, the upcoming Disciples III looks very promising.
    www.youtube.com/watch
    www.youtube.com/watch
    www.disciples3.ru/main_eng.htm
     
     



     

    looks real similar to Kings Bounty : the legend, except with better graphics - also made in Russia. Looks good :)



  • UmbralUmbral Member Posts: 1,051

    Yes Avery, the Disciples serie is very similar to King´s Bounty: The Legend, but a bit more darker.

    www.disciples2.com/D2/elves/

    ...

  • SteelroseSteelrose Member UncommonPosts: 215
    Originally posted by cukimunga

    Originally posted by Steelrose




     
    It is the gamestyle. Indeed, Oblivion would be a tremendous RPG with turn-based combat and without level scaling and with an actual character customization. But the way it is now, it's a bit more complex FPS.
    There is no exact definition for RPG but there is exact definition for FPS. Any game with first person perspective and with live-action aiming with your cursor is FPS. Oblivion is FPS. Most of its content IS FPS therefore it is FPS. What's so hard to understand?
    I repeat my example of a regular 30 minute gameplay in Oblivion: 5 minutes running around in town getting rumours and quests. 10 minute running towards a site (using a compass) and fightning monsters on the road. And then 15 minutes fightning quest mobs on site (usually multilayered dungeon)
    There is constant on-going action in Oblivion from first person perspective that requires you to aim with your cursor -> THEREFORE ITS FPS. First person shooter involves shooting or otherwise killing enemies in first person perspective. What information in this definition is hard to understand?

    Ok I lied im not done.

    "There is no exact definition for RPG but there is exact definition for FPS. Any game with first person perspective and with live-action aiming with your cursor is FPS. Oblivion is FPS. Most of its content IS FPS therefore it is FPS. What's so hard to understand?"

    Well since there is no exact definition for RPG, then I say Oblivion is a RPG with FPS combat.  I think you just can't except these games as RPG because you don't like real time combat.  Things change, look how Rock music has evolved over the years it has different influences and has sub genre's but its still rock at its core.  RPG's are the same  I don't see how you can call Oblivion just a FPS it has so much more depth than a shooter.

     

     

    "First person shooter involves shooting or otherwise killing enemies in first person perspective. What information in this definition is hard to understand?"

     

    Well what you said right there would make Wizardry  a FPS since you are killing people in first person view. Same with Kings Field or any other RPG that is in first person view, even if it is turned base.

     

    Ok now im done ive had enough debates today with this stupid crap and other politcal crap.

     

    Im off to play FFXI

     

     

    Have a nice day, or whatever time it is where your at.



     

    This is not true, Wizardry 1-8 has turn-based combat. There is no aiming with cursor which defines FPS genre. It's not a question of how much combat it has, it's a question of whether you're forced to aim with cursor in real time action and in first person perspective or not.

    I love RPG I play RPG for a very long time. I dislike FPS and never played FPS. I can't play new so called RPG's, because they all feel like FPS for me. The gameplay is FPS. Oblivion might be very complex for FPS, but it's main feature is still FPS. Last good real RPG I remember was Temple of Elemental Evil by Troika and Wizardry 8.

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