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Entropia from a players POV
JohnCapital
Member Posts: 15
**Warning: Long ass post**
Hi everyone. My name is John Capital and I'm a Calypsian in the Entropia Universe. Some friends of mine pointed me to this site, noting the number of "this game sucks" comments. So I thought I'd tell you my personal experience in Entropia after over 2 years of playing.
First about myself IRL. I'm a late 30+ male who has never played WoW, SL, EVE or anything else. Why? Well, quite frankly, I may be a kid at heart, but these online games struck me as just plain silly. (More about this later.)
However 2+ years ago, I heard about folks actually making money in these online games. Being the nerd I was, (and looking for supplemental income 
) I decided to check things out. I researched a few games based on online reviews & info and the one seemed the most money oriented (and possibly fun) was Entropia. So, I downloaded the game, created my avatar and away I went....
...into nothing like I expected. 
WTF was this? Where's the game info? How do I move? What do I do? Help me! 
Only thing is, I heard horror stories of folks getting swindled for $1,000s in this universe, so I refused any help and talked to no one. So without a guide, without an instruction manual, without a clue, and nothing to my name (since I refused to deposit) I s-l-o-w-l-y learned my way around.
I can totally understand folks who come into this universe, learn how to sweat, buy their first gun and quickly find out how fast it's gone. I completely understand why folks get frustrated and leave, thinking this place sucks. I get it. I was there.
But the aspect of exploration and learning new things captured my attention. I had to force myself to brute force through the initial learning period. I was so dumb on this game it was 3 months before I learned the concept of 1st person view. I played the entire game in 3rd person view, because I didn't know any better. (Don't even ask me how I navigated and moved around. It's embarrassing. 
) However, I learned how to sweat, I got a gun and ammo, and went on TP runs and explored the areas. I got very upset when I first read the "your gun is almost broken. Please repair it." message. I didn't even know about "item decay" until then.
So stupid and ultra-N00b as I was, I still learned how to survive in this universe.
Now a quick message about the whole "sweating" thing. The game itself is free. There's no monthly fees. You can quit playing for months and not worry about a thing. Entropia gets its money from "deposits", or folks using their credit card to "buy peds" (peds are the Entropia Dollar) You spend those peds on equipment (guns, mining gear, crafting supplies, whatever) and you use those items to play. The items decay. If you make more loot then the decay, you played for free. If your decay costs more than your loot, you are paying to play. Simple.
But how can MindArk (Entropia's creator and manager of this universe) convince folks to pay for a game? Simple. Offer a "free to try" version.
Except the "free to try" version and the "pay to play" version are the exact same game. In fact they are vitally connected. (My thanks to sweaters who keep my teleporter chip fueled for me.) You can play for free, or you can deposit. If you deposit, you can do $10 or $100,000, the choice is completely yours.
I understood that Sweating was the "try it free" part of the game. I got that from the beginning. I like that they offer that move. I wasn't forced to pay anything before deciding whether I was a permanent resident or not.
2 months after playing for free, I made my first $10 deposit.
Oh the freedom! 
You have no idea how wonderful 100 peds is when you have been scraping by 5 peds at a time. So I was able to do more. Learn more. Have more, dare I say? fun!
But I knew I didn't want to spend too much on just a game. So I set a limit. a max amount I would deposit per month. This was my "entertainment fund." My goal was to make that deposit last as long as possible, and maybe try to make a profit.
So here I am just over 2 years later. How did I do?
Some times, I've played months for free. Other times, I invested a lil bit to buy some equipment I wanted. On average, I've deposited $50/month. Over 28 months, that's $1,400 I've spent on 2+ years of fun and games.
Did I make a million dollars? Nope. Did I profit? Nope. My overall loot is pretty typical, meaning not great.
"Dude! You lost money on that game? You suck!" Maybe this could be the response I get from some of you. However...
If I were to cash out right now, I would get back ~$1,200.
That's right folks. Although I've spent $50/month. At the end, I'll have lost only $200. For 2 over years of fun and friendships, that's a price I'm certainly willing to pay. Now I'm not sure if this type of situation is possible in WoW, SL or anywhere else. Frankly, I have no desire to find out. I'm sorry guys. Entropia is my home and I have no desire to jump from universe to universe. For those that do, I respect you and hope you have tons of fun. I simply choose a different path.
My wife plays now too. She just started after watching over my shoulder for too too long. She loves it there.
So there you are. Entropia's hard to start. It's a harsh universe. There's tons of cash there but everyone's working hard trying to make sure you don't get the lion's share of it. You'll likely not make a profit in Entropia, but like I said, what other game offers you a substantial rebate in the end when you decide to leave? 
(Again, not playing other games, I'm not sure if this is typical or not. If it is, great.)
Don't look at Entropia as a place to get rich. (I don't think the other games have cries of "I lost money" do they?) If you do get rich here, great and gratz. However most of us are simply happy deciding exactly how much we want to pay for our entertainment.
Good luck and Happy hoffing to you.
Happy hoffing
Comments
I'll second most of these points, also as a EU player..
It's a tough game to get started and the advertising for EU is misleading in that it talks about making money... There is only few players that invested in Land or rare items that will have made money from this game but overall, it's just like any other MMORPG where you pay to play... so nothing wrong with that. The Bonus is that you can cash out at any point in time if you sell your skills and possessions. Which other game offers that?
You have to be realistic about the game, the company that runs it needs to make money, so expect to pay to play... but the choice is yours, you can play for 10 $ per month or 1000 if you wish... how you rinse your money is up to you...
The challenge is to play according to your style, eco or not, find your way of having fun... knowing it's real cash you are talking about..
Shurely EU is not a game for people who can not afford to spend money playing, it's not a substitute for other MMORPGs, cos it's supposedly free.. .it's not... on the contrary, I would say it's a game with a premium... in average you will probably spend much more on it per month than on other MMORPGs but you can sell what you gain at any point in time... and I would assume in most cases, that ultimately "would" give you a very nice return that could even mean profit for some...
EU is my game... there is nothing like it out there atm...
These are 2 good posts to read, you both have the right attitude toward EU and the ability to realize that it is not a get rich quick game. But a fun and challenging environment, My wife and I both play EU and enjoy it a lot. There are always things to learn about EU and with time and patience you will find yourself enjoying it more and more. Good luck to all EU players.
EU in game name - Dash Night Shade - Soc - High Counsel - (Founder & Leader)
The way I see it from playing the game is its like a lottery. From what I've observed it doesn't matter how much you deposit anyone in the game has a chance to be a high roller. Some people don't like me saying that because to them the more money you deposit the more globals and high slots you should be entitled to hit but I haven't seen that happen in the past 2 years I played. Just because you deposit thousands of dollars a month doesn't mean you are guaranteed big returns.
Someone with lvl 2 rifle has just as good chance to hit a big slot as someone with lvl 40 rifle. This keeps a balance for heavy depositors and non/low depositors. I've seen people get pissed when a player that is newer than them gets a rare loot or hits a big HOF. Its all about balance.
Don't be terrorized! You're more likely to die of a car accident, drowning, fire, or murder! More people die every year from prescription drugs than terrorism LOL!
Not completely like a lottery since a participant doesn't *have* to pay in in order to get a chance (albeit mathematically quite small, I suspect) chance at scoring some seriously good loot.
Think of as a MMORPG with optional payments and the occasional really bitchin' door prize.
AG
Alpha AG Geek
Founder- Manticore Society
Regarding the OP's post (not about to quote it in it's entirety, but he basically said if he "cashed out" now he'd have spent about 200 dollars).
Most MMO's cost 15 bucks a month, so "losing" $200 in 2 years is actually cheaper than most P2P MMO's ($15 X 24 months = $360). EU is certainly higher quality than most F2P games, and with the expected graphics upgrade it should be just amazing for any MMO.
I also agree with pretty much all the OP said, it is a game with a harsh learning curve, a somewhat difficult UI if you have played other MMO's, and certainly not a good choice if you can't control your spending.
However, if you're a sci-fi fan and want to explore a new world, hunt some strange critters, and help build a world, EU is a great place. I can only think of 3 other ground based sci-fi MMO's (nothing against EVE, I just like being a person, not a ship myself), and those 3 are all deeply flawed in some way : Star Wars Galaxies, buggy, shot itself in the foot reinventing itself too many times, Anarchy online, good game, but the graphics are way too outdated and Tabla Rasa, which is shutting down.
MrChompy, thanks for that mini-review with comparisons to similar games and thumbnail economic profile!
I also enjoy exploring the brave new world, seeking out new life, and explodifying the crap out of it.
As an old player of the paper and dice Traveller game, I do miss the spacecraft action to some extent, but you can't beat personal interaction as a player/avatar. In the old Activision Battlezone game, we'd often take breaks from combat, jump out of out tanks and chat for a bit. In those primitive days of online MMOG, the only way to handshake was a jump... and we were thankful! LOL
Cheers!
Alpha AG Geek
Founder- Manticore Society
You can have good times and you can have bad... Its addictive, which can be both a good and bad thing =/
Sick of playing Entropia Universe? Want to quit, but don't want your hard earned money to vanish? Give your items to ME :-)
Nytewolf, that's true. As with any game, there is good and bad.
I suppose the biggest pitfall of anty RCE game would be that people that lack the discipline to stick to a budget may not be well served to play them.
That being said, there is a lot of adventure out there for both those that play for free and those that deposit. Those adventures will be different for each, but both will find challenge, friends, and a pretty big environment to explore.
Alpha AG Geek
Founder- Manticore Society
I see the 15/month thing all the time. 15/month in about 99% other mmorpgs will get you farther than 15/month in Entropia Universe. Other games give you full access to all content offered out of the box with a basic subscription. Entropia depends on how much you manage your money and deposit. Most other mmorpgs are time sinks and Entropia is more of a money sink. You can do more with your time depending on how much you are willing to deposit at that time.
Don't be terrorized! You're more likely to die of a car accident, drowning, fire, or murder! More people die every year from prescription drugs than terrorism LOL!
Quite true. 15 bucks in other games is pretty much a unidirectional transfer. One other difference worth pointing out is that in the event a player decides to go elsewhere, it is possible to liquidate assets such as skills and items and convert them back into RL cash via in-game systems. There is a minimum amount that MindArk will process, and there are some fees involved in withdrawing funds at this time. It'll be interesting to see how this process evolves since the Swedish Government has issued a banking license to MindArk.
Before someone else chimes in flinging dung yet again, I'll state that the average player probably won't reap huge amounts of money by playing the game and making an in-game profit, or by liquidating their in-game assets upon quitting. No suprise there, EU is an entertainment venue, and there are no free money machines... In RL or on Planet Calypso.
Alpha AG Geek
Founder- Manticore Society
Quite true. 15 bucks in other games is pretty much a unidirectional transfer. One other difference worth pointing out is that in the event a player decides to go elsewhere, it is possible to liquidate assets such as skills and items and convert them back into RL cash via in-game systems. There is a minimum amount that MindArk will process, and there are some fees involved in withdrawing funds at this time. It'll be interesting to see how this process evolves since the Swedish Government has issued a banking license to MindArk.
Before someone else chimes in flinging dung yet again, I'll state that the average player probably won't reap huge amounts of money by playing the game and making an in-game profit, or by liquidating their in-game assets upon quitting. No suprise there, EU is an entertainment venue, and there are no free money machines... In RL or on Planet Calypso.
I agree, outside the high roller/depositors I wish MindArk would help the casual players at least break even. I'd rather have equal loot to what I am spending so I can at least gain skills. I'd rather have that than getting globals all the time.
Don't be terrorized! You're more likely to die of a car accident, drowning, fire, or murder! More people die every year from prescription drugs than terrorism LOL!
I think that's a difficult balance, increase average loot and people say there are not enough globals, increase the amount of globals and other people say focus should be on average loot instead. It goes for pretty much every aspect of EU i think and because of the RCE emotions can run high.
If you could choose from two extremes, which would you choose: Less loot than now but higher skill gains or better loot than now but with lower skill gains?
I think that's a difficult balance, increase average loot and people say there are not enough globals, increase the amount of globals and other people say focus should be on average loot instead. It goes for pretty much every aspect of EU i think and because of the RCE emotions can run high.
If you could choose from two extremes, which would you choose: Less loot than now but higher skill gains or better loot than now but with lower skill gains?
I'd go with better loot than now but with lower skill gains. At least you could support your character through the slower gains.
Don't be terrorized! You're more likely to die of a car accident, drowning, fire, or murder! More people die every year from prescription drugs than terrorism LOL!
I think that's a difficult balance, increase average loot and people say there are not enough globals, increase the amount of globals and other people say focus should be on average loot instead. It goes for pretty much every aspect of EU i think and because of the RCE emotions can run high.
If you could choose from two extremes, which would you choose: Less loot than now but higher skill gains or better loot than now but with lower skill gains?
I'd go with better loot than now but with lower skill gains. At least you could support your character through the slower gains.
Unfourtantly it would seem if most people broke even, then there would be no money coming in. Personally, I would love to see more average loot and less Globals, HoF, ATH, whatever. With that being said, I never deposited in all the time I played, which must have been between 6months and a year back in late 2006-graphics update. A few months ago I logged in and gave all my stuff to a soc mate I was close too, which was about 300 peds worth. I enjoyed my time for a while but that update killed it for me in more than one way. I logged in earlier this morning and that same friend gave me some stuff to get back started and I probably will since I can't find an MMO to keep me interested and I can at least play this for free, which is more of a pride/sense of accomplishment issue then anything else.
--------
"Chemistry: 'We do stuff in lab that would be a felony in your garage.'"
The most awesomest after school special T-shirt:
Front: UNO Chemistry Club
Back: /\OH --> Bad Decisions
Welcome back mrcalhou
Maybe you could share some tips from your point of view on how you managed to be successful without depositing?
I think that's a difficult balance, increase average loot and people say there are not enough globals, increase the amount of globals and other people say focus should be on average loot instead. It goes for pretty much every aspect of EU i think and because of the RCE emotions can run high.
If you could choose from two extremes, which would you choose: Less loot than now but higher skill gains or better loot than now but with lower skill gains?
I'd go with better loot than now but with lower skill gains. At least you could support your character through the slower gains.
Unfourtantly it would seem if most people broke even, then there would be no money coming in. Personally, I would love to see more average loot and less Globals, HoF, ATH, whatever. With that being said, I never deposited in all the time I played, which must have been between 6months and a year back in late 2006-graphics update. A few months ago I logged in and gave all my stuff to a soc mate I was close too, which was about 300 peds worth. I enjoyed my time for a while but that update killed it for me in more than one way. I logged in earlier this morning and that same friend gave me some stuff to get back started and I probably will since I can't find an MMO to keep me interested and I can at least play this for free, which is more of a pride/sense of accomplishment issue then anything else.
I agree. I think MindARk will continue to add and update mainly cosmetic stuff like new worlds and graphics while leaving the core functionality of the game untouched. I've noticed more and more people in the sweating areas so it seems people are becoming more patient, possibly from being "awakened" from making a few deposits and gained nothing much not even to buy ammo and repair. This "game" is definitely a mystery as in trying to figure out game mechanix and economics. From playing and observing over the past few years I've noticed the high rollers are either really really lucky or have some kind of inside knowledge as to how thing really work. I'll probably be labeled a conspiracy theorist but I think there is an extremely advanced underground network of information in the game and only a few who have showed their dedication through very tight social networking and extravagant deposits have been granted access to this information or they have made some kind of agreement with MindARk to help boast deposits and new account creations.
Don't be terrorized! You're more likely to die of a car accident, drowning, fire, or murder! More people die every year from prescription drugs than terrorism LOL!
As for me, I'm taking yet another break from the game, I can only take it in small doses, as I really can't afford to do anything right now owing to the economic situation and other things.
For the time being I'm playing World of Warcraft, hehe.
Sick of playing Entropia Universe? Want to quit, but don't want your hard earned money to vanish? Give your items to ME :-)
It was easy. I quit working at Home Depot due to a bad back and had nothing better to do. I thought I'd be able to earn some extra cash if I tried hard enough and was smart. I was wrong. What REALLY kept me for the time I was able to hold on was being in a soc and having people to talk to. Everyone once in a while they would take me on a hunt, and even though I couldn't contribute much, they gave me some stuff to help me keep going.
--------
"Chemistry: 'We do stuff in lab that would be a felony in your garage.'"
The most awesomest after school special T-shirt:
Front: UNO Chemistry Club
Back: /\OH --> Bad Decisions
*Hands Briansho his tin foil conspiracy theory hat*
Seriously though, As far as i know Ma/FPC have ignored any and all questions regarding game mechanics from day 1, which is probably a good thing too with a RCE. Despite that if you look at entropedia today there's a world of information on which skills effect what, professions, items, skill bonuses, loot tables etc. There are 1001 loot/economy theories circling around, It wouldn't surprise me at all if there's is this tight social underground network that figured out what to do at the right time, and is that such a bad thing? It doesn't automatically imply they get their information from MA by depositing extravagantly or through some kind of agreement.