I couldn't agree more. All I am saying is that they keep saying this is an MMO but it has no MMO elements. I posed the question to have this discussion be more interactive than to come right out and say, "This isn't an MMO." Discussion, that's what this forum is all about, no?
Anyways, I kept telling many of you that your answers don't answer the quesiton. Example: Me: Starcraft 2 is an MMORPG. You: How is it an MMORPG and not an RTS? Me: Because Blizzard wanted to make an MMO.
That doesn't really answer the question. I'm hoping to show some of you (who are somehow diehard fans of this game when it isn't even in alpha yet) that they are going down a road of making a single player game (which won't be cureable if they go too far into development). I eagerly look forward to this game, but I don't want to sit there a month in when we have all finished the story (and maybe multiple ones) and go, "Damn, what is there to do but quit for now " How many MMOs must come out that fail? Shouldn't we be giving them some positive feedback to let them know that they need to actually make an MMO? Or are too many of you just wanting this to be a single player game and don't really care whether or not this is actually an MMO (which is fine, but let's not use false terms)?
Maybe you could explain to me how SWTOR isn't an fps, or an rts?
The ONLY answer, because it's pretty much the ONLY info we have is that both LA and BioWare have themselves called it an MMO. BioWare spent fuck knows how much money setting up a new MMO studio, filled it with MMO developers to work on this game, if you still think that points at anything other than an MMO, quite frankly you need your head read.
Stop taking this so personally, lol. You probably really only like this game because of former associations (it's Star Wars and it's made by BioWare). Do you think that a requirement to have an MMO is to call it an "MMO" and to have a bunch of money?
Also, do you really think I'm suggesting that this is going to be an actual single player game sold as an MMO? It will obviously have servers and whatnot, but in theory it won't QUALIFY as an MMO because it will be lacking MMO content. Imagine if you logged into WoW but could only run around and that was it. No UI, no chat, no fighting, no menus...nothing but movement. Would that be an MMORPG?
You seem to think on an extremely literall level...
For someone who has been insulting and borderline trolling for this whole discussion you sure are quick to point out someone else taking it "too seriously". I seriously hope you get suspended for your repeated attempts at trolling, which was horribly done.
I really hope you grow up, the world doesn't revolve around you, no matter how much you want it to. Almost everyone is excited over it being an MMO, which is one of the best things that could of happend for the SW universe. If you can't handle that, then I suggest going back to your xbox live where you belong.
You see, this is the kind of stuff I was trying to dispell. I haven't trolled, I have been having a conversation about the fundamentals of MMOs, which I am a fan of. Obviously you don't like MMOs.
The world doesn't revolve around me, and I am sick of being disappointed (like everyone else) of all these new crappy MMOs that take the MMO out of MMORPG. Honestly, I have no idea why people like you are so excited about this game. You either really don't like MMOs and think this will be a good single player game or you are just assuming it will be good because it is Star Wars or is being made by BioWare.
I want a good Star Wars MMO, what is so hard to understand about that? You say I'm mad about it being a SW MMO, yet I'm one of the few who seem to want this to actually be an MMO and not just a single player game that will be finished in a month. I really hope you can understand my viewpoint, because if you truly want a good SW MMO also, then you would also be concerned that this game might not last longer than 2 months.
I haven't insulted anyone, you are just upset that I am being blasphemous against Star Wars and BioWare (which I'm really not).
______________________ Give a man some fun and you entertain him for a day. Teach a man to make fun and you entertain him for a lifetime.
My question makes sense. The reason I asked it is because hopefully some of you will begin to think about the issues this game has. Could any of you think of one reason why this game would be better as an MMO than a single player game? Your question makes no real sense because your point may be trying to discuss what IS a MMORPG (or what constitute one), but the question of WHY Bioware decided to make SW:TOR a MMORPG isn't a huge complex one if you think about it. Answers like "because they wanted to" really don't answer the question. Look, I loved Kotor 1 & 2 and many other BioWare games (NWN, ME, etc.). I also like Star Wars. This game will simply have a fantastic story. As an MMO lover though, I find it rather insulting for these companies to degrade the genre. What are they going to do next, start charging monthly subscriptions for all online games (oh wait, that's already happening). Has BioWare no shame or are they just being forced to pump up this cash cow with tons of steroids by the wonderful minds at LucasArts and EA? Answer like "because they want to" is the perfect answer (which for them it's the one they don't need to explain). MMORPG doesn't revolve around the idea of JUST pure freedom. Bioware is making one where your character's story matters (supposedly), so I wouldn't say they are degrading the genre until I see HOW their system works.
Seriously, the game might be fun, but what will you do when you finish the story? How is a 'story' in an MMO any good if it doesn't involve everyone, it allows everyone to be the same hero, and it has no effect on the playerbase as a whole? MMOs are made up of people, they provide the context. You should NOT be able to play an MMO if you are the only subscriber, right? They didn't say that your story won't involve everyone. They just say that the focus will be on your character as a class. We need to see how the system works before we can just categorize it as "just another X". Would none of you be upset if they charged a subscription fee for Fallout 3, Fable 2, The Witcher, or any other single player game (without actually doing anything besides charging you)?
You seem to want to argue on WHAT is a MMO instead of WHY Bioware is making this a MMO. Get your question straight first.
Some people just like playing a game with other people, trading, chatting, crafting stuff for others, making a name for themselves, running huge epic quests and sharing that experience with others. It's kinda like drinking; sometimes it's just more fun with friends.
I couldn't agree more. All I am saying is that they keep saying this is an MMO but it has no MMO elements. I posed the question to have this discussion be more interactive than to come right out and say, "This isn't an MMO." Discussion, that's what this forum is all about, no?
Anyways, I kept telling many of you that your answers don't answer the quesiton.
Example:
Me: Starcraft 2 is an MMORPG.
You: How is it an MMORPG and not an RTS?
Me: Because Blizzard wanted to make an MMO.
Pick a relevant example. StarCraft II was stated by the company AS RTS, hence we categorize it as such. If today, they made a SoS (System of StarCraft or whatnot), and say it's StarCraft to the next level, then you'll have a relevant example. And the answer WOULD answer the question of "Why".
That doesn't really answer the question. I'm hoping to show some of you (who are somehow diehard fans of this game when it isn't even in alpha yet) that they are going down a road of making a single player game (which won't be cureable if they go too far into development). I eagerly look forward to this game, but I don't want to sit there a month in when we have all finished the story (and maybe multiple ones) and go, "Damn, what is there to do but quit for now "
You don't seem to understand that you CAN have a complex story system in MMO that may take the idea of single-player style RPG and expand on it. From what we can gather at this time, we can't predict how the system will work. But to state that it's a single-player game just because you see "story-driven" in the description just make your argument a biased one.
There's more than one way to design a game, so sit back, and see the direct FIRST before coming out and categorize the game when you don't even have enough information to do so.
How many MMOs must come out that fail? Shouldn't we be giving them some positive feedback to let them know that they need to actually make an MMO? Or are too many of you just wanting this to be a single player game and don't really care whether or not this is actually an MMO (which is fine, but let's not use false terms)?
Again, your agrument is at what constitute as a MMO, so focus on that.
What I'm trying to get at is that this isn't really an MMO. It's a single player game that's made to make some more money that borders on the side of consumer manipulation. If you honestly thought I was really trying to ask that question, get off of your high and mighty horse. Notice how not one person named ONE single MMO element.
{ Mod Delete } { Mod Delete }
Hey, you are saying that this is a single player game that they are making an MMO to make more money with. My question is: How do you know this is a single player game? Must be psychic powers as the game hasn't even entered the alpha stage yet. Speculate all you want, but don't present it as fact, and certainly don't get your panties in a bunch when no one else seems to agree with you.
Honestly, they have been clamoring on about a wonderful single-player story. What more proof do you need? Should I suddenly expect the game to be completely different than what they said it was going to be?
Correction:
They've been focus on selling the CHARACTER CLASS STORY system, not single-player story.
The ONLY mention of actual MMO content is the discussion on end game, which is frankly delusional. WoW made this work because WoW is more like Diablo 2 than an MMO. All games that have come out so far that have used ideas from WoW haven't seen big success.
This is opinion (why WoW is a success), and can be argue till WoW disappear from the MMO scene, but that's something you are not really focus on are you?
Am I wrong to want a real Star Wars MMO to succeed? I think this makes me more on your side than you know..
Why do you people even come to forums if you don't want to discuss things? Would it be better if we all just continually posted our admiration? On the contrary, I say.
Anyways, the starcraft example was relevant. This genre is the only genre that is having these big issues, that is why I can't give a real example from another genre. If this game has story and focuses on a MASSIVE amount of PLAYERS and what they can do TOGETHER, it'll certainly be the first story-driven MMO and will probably be good (given BioWare's track record).
If however, they are simply taking WoW but throwing in the games Kotor 3, 4, 5, 6, ..., then there is no actual MMO element to the game. I don't understand why people seem to think that an awesome story that you will play BY YOURSELF (and everyone from your class will do the same thing...but not with you) is a good idea for an MMO.
Well, whatever. It is clear to me now that no one actually really cares enough about this game to have a discussion on it. One month after we all finish it, I'll be very disappointed with the rest of you that we will have to wait x amount of months for the game to continue (patch or expansion).
______________________ Give a man some fun and you entertain him for a day. Teach a man to make fun and you entertain him for a lifetime.
Why do you people even come to forums if you don't want to discuss things? Would it be better if we all just continually posted our admiration? On the contrary, I say.
You say you want a discussion, but the focus of your questions have NOTHING to do with your opening post. What is there to discuss? If you want to discuss what constitute as MMO... Sure, I'll bite, but to keep going back to the questions of "Why Bioware is doing such and such..." isn't really relevant in any of your points. You can use it as example, but not purely focus on it.
Anyways, the starcraft example was relevant. This genre is the only genre that is having these big issues, that is why I can't give a real example from another genre. If this game has story and focuses on a MASSIVE amount of PLAYERS and what they can do TOGETHER, it'll certainly be the first story-driven MMO and will probably be good (given BioWare's track record). Not relevant in term of different situation (that is, did you read how I use a non-exist StarCraft game to show relevance here?) If the situation is as I stated, then it's relevant in the sense of the direction of the studios. Again, they didn't not say that this will be a single-player game, but that there will be an emphasis on your character class story. That doesn't mean anything at this time, and we have no information to go on except speculations (which may very well turn out to be false speculations).
If however, they are simply taking WoW but throwing in the games Kotor 3, 4, 5, 6, ..., then there is no actual MMO element to the game. I don't understand why people seem to think that an awesome story that you will play BY YOURSELF (and everyone from your class will do the same thing...but not with you) is a good idea for an MMO. Where did they say that they are taking WoW and throwing in the SW:TOR? The only quote I find is that they are going after WoW in terms of subs and sales. WoW has its MMO elements (however small it is), but that doesn't mean it's not an MMO. They focus on personal story because that was part of what's lacking in MMO. WoW has none (and most of their quests sucked and is meanless). Most of other MMO I play didn't have any personal stories. Of course we can argue about whether personal stories should be created by developers or players, but that's a different topics. Again, even though they are using a class system (which I hate and detest for many reasons), I still think there is a chance their class story will be complex enough that it creates different direction for one class, and when you multiply that by how many classes they may have, the result will be interesting. However, we have NO MORE information as this moment to judge the system, so maybe your speculation is right, maybe my speculation is right, but we have no way of knowing. So to argue on this is moot. Well, whatever. It is clear to me now that no one actually really cares enough about this game to have a discussion on it. One month after we all finish it, I'll be very disappointed with the rest of you that we will have to wait x amount of months for the game to continue (patch or expansion). Again, people are willing to discuss when there is a clear topic and more information, but if all you're trying to do is to draw people into endless debate of what is and what isn't, and how the choice of the developers are not answering the "WHY" questions, then what's there to discuss?
Why are they making this an MMO instead of a single player game (kotor 3)?
I'm curious to see what you all think the BioWare answer to this would be. I'm not trying to praise or denounce this game; I'm just asking a simple question that I'd like to see this particular community's outlook on.
They've stated that making it an MMORPG means they have more variety, this isn't KotOR 3, it's KotOR 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, etc due to the number of possibilities.. Free content updates, expansions whatever.. it means they can also get more money by using the subs in an MMORPG which as everyone knows is the main goal of companies..
Comments
Maybe you could explain to me how SWTOR isn't an fps, or an rts?
The ONLY answer, because it's pretty much the ONLY info we have is that both LA and BioWare have themselves called it an MMO. BioWare spent fuck knows how much money setting up a new MMO studio, filled it with MMO developers to work on this game, if you still think that points at anything other than an MMO, quite frankly you need your head read.
Stop taking this so personally, lol. You probably really only like this game because of former associations (it's Star Wars and it's made by BioWare). Do you think that a requirement to have an MMO is to call it an "MMO" and to have a bunch of money?
Also, do you really think I'm suggesting that this is going to be an actual single player game sold as an MMO? It will obviously have servers and whatnot, but in theory it won't QUALIFY as an MMO because it will be lacking MMO content. Imagine if you logged into WoW but could only run around and that was it. No UI, no chat, no fighting, no menus...nothing but movement. Would that be an MMORPG?
You seem to think on an extremely literall level...
For someone who has been insulting and borderline trolling for this whole discussion you sure are quick to point out someone else taking it "too seriously". I seriously hope you get suspended for your repeated attempts at trolling, which was horribly done.
I really hope you grow up, the world doesn't revolve around you, no matter how much you want it to. Almost everyone is excited over it being an MMO, which is one of the best things that could of happend for the SW universe. If you can't handle that, then I suggest going back to your xbox live where you belong.
You see, this is the kind of stuff I was trying to dispell. I haven't trolled, I have been having a conversation about the fundamentals of MMOs, which I am a fan of. Obviously you don't like MMOs.
The world doesn't revolve around me, and I am sick of being disappointed (like everyone else) of all these new crappy MMOs that take the MMO out of MMORPG. Honestly, I have no idea why people like you are so excited about this game. You either really don't like MMOs and think this will be a good single player game or you are just assuming it will be good because it is Star Wars or is being made by BioWare.
I want a good Star Wars MMO, what is so hard to understand about that? You say I'm mad about it being a SW MMO, yet I'm one of the few who seem to want this to actually be an MMO and not just a single player game that will be finished in a month. I really hope you can understand my viewpoint, because if you truly want a good SW MMO also, then you would also be concerned that this game might not last longer than 2 months.
I haven't insulted anyone, you are just upset that I am being blasphemous against Star Wars and BioWare (which I'm really not).
______________________
Give a man some fun and you entertain him for a day. Teach a man to make fun and you entertain him for a lifetime.
You seem to want to argue on WHAT is a MMO instead of WHY Bioware is making this a MMO. Get your question straight first.
Current MMO: FFXIV:ARR
Past MMO: Way too many (P2P and F2P)
The game will be what it will be, and it can't be everything to everyone. If you don't like it, then don't play it.
I couldn't agree more. All I am saying is that they keep saying this is an MMO but it has no MMO elements. I posed the question to have this discussion be more interactive than to come right out and say, "This isn't an MMO." Discussion, that's what this forum is all about, no?
Anyways, I kept telling many of you that your answers don't answer the quesiton.
Example:
Me: Starcraft 2 is an MMORPG.
You: How is it an MMORPG and not an RTS?
Me: Because Blizzard wanted to make an MMO.
Pick a relevant example. StarCraft II was stated by the company AS RTS, hence we categorize it as such. If today, they made a SoS (System of StarCraft or whatnot), and say it's StarCraft to the next level, then you'll have a relevant example. And the answer WOULD answer the question of "Why".
That doesn't really answer the question. I'm hoping to show some of you (who are somehow diehard fans of this game when it isn't even in alpha yet) that they are going down a road of making a single player game (which won't be cureable if they go too far into development). I eagerly look forward to this game, but I don't want to sit there a month in when we have all finished the story (and maybe multiple ones) and go, "Damn, what is there to do but quit for now
"
You don't seem to understand that you CAN have a complex story system in MMO that may take the idea of single-player style RPG and expand on it. From what we can gather at this time, we can't predict how the system will work. But to state that it's a single-player game just because you see "story-driven" in the description just make your argument a biased one.
There's more than one way to design a game, so sit back, and see the direct FIRST before coming out and categorize the game when you don't even have enough information to do so.
How many MMOs must come out that fail? Shouldn't we be giving them some positive feedback to let them know that they need to actually make an MMO? Or are too many of you just wanting this to be a single player game and don't really care whether or not this is actually an MMO (which is fine, but let's not use false terms)?
Again, your agrument is at what constitute as a MMO, so focus on that.
Current MMO: FFXIV:ARR
Past MMO: Way too many (P2P and F2P)
{ Mod Delete }
Hey, you are saying that this is a single player game that they are making an MMO to make more money with. My question is: How do you know this is a single player game? Must be psychic powers as the game hasn't even entered the alpha stage yet. Speculate all you want, but don't present it as fact, and certainly don't get your panties in a bunch when no one else seems to agree with you.
Honestly, they have been clamoring on about a wonderful single-player story. What more proof do you need? Should I suddenly expect the game to be completely different than what they said it was going to be?
Correction:
They've been focus on selling the CHARACTER CLASS STORY system, not single-player story.
The ONLY mention of actual MMO content is the discussion on end game, which is frankly delusional. WoW made this work because WoW is more like Diablo 2 than an MMO. All games that have come out so far that have used ideas from WoW haven't seen big success.
This is opinion (why WoW is a success), and can be argue till WoW disappear from the MMO scene, but that's something you are not really focus on are you?
Am I wrong to want a real Star Wars MMO to succeed? I think this makes me more on your side than you know..
Current MMO: FFXIV:ARR
Past MMO: Way too many (P2P and F2P)
Why do you people even come to forums if you don't want to discuss things? Would it be better if we all just continually posted our admiration? On the contrary, I say.
Anyways, the starcraft example was relevant. This genre is the only genre that is having these big issues, that is why I can't give a real example from another genre. If this game has story and focuses on a MASSIVE amount of PLAYERS and what they can do TOGETHER, it'll certainly be the first story-driven MMO and will probably be good (given BioWare's track record).
If however, they are simply taking WoW but throwing in the games Kotor 3, 4, 5, 6, ..., then there is no actual MMO element to the game. I don't understand why people seem to think that an awesome story that you will play BY YOURSELF (and everyone from your class will do the same thing...but not with you) is a good idea for an MMO.
Well, whatever. It is clear to me now that no one actually really cares enough about this game to have a discussion on it. One month after we all finish it, I'll be very disappointed with the rest of you that we will have to wait x amount of months for the game to continue (patch or expansion).
______________________
Give a man some fun and you entertain him for a day. Teach a man to make fun and you entertain him for a lifetime.
Current MMO: FFXIV:ARR
Past MMO: Way too many (P2P and F2P)
They've stated that making it an MMORPG means they have more variety, this isn't KotOR 3, it's KotOR 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, etc due to the number of possibilities.. Free content updates, expansions whatever.. it means they can also get more money by using the subs in an MMORPG which as everyone knows is the main goal of companies..