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Basuru: CCP vs Players of EVE Post Game Report
Basuru
Member Posts: 5
Batter Up
I’m sure that if you play EVE, or even if you know someone that does, you’ll probably also know that over the five-or-so years of running EVE Online, CCP have made a few decisions that have really riled its player base. It isn’t just the decisions that generated such negativity, but rather the way they were handled by the company that drove people to cancel subscriptions and find salvation elsewhere.
Strike One
The first of these situations was caused by the infamous ‘T20’ incident, during which a member of CCP staff abused his position of power to benefit his own corporation, something that sounds like a banning offence to most players. The company saw this in a different light; instead banning the player who reported the incident and allowing T20 to remain in the EVE-verse. An interesting view of ‘fairness’, that one.
Speaking of ‘fairness’, we skip forward to October 2008, a month I’m sure that CCP will remember for a while to come.
Strike Two
Next up is the ‘nano-nerf’, which was essentially the dampening of speed enhancing modules due to their ‘miss-use’ on larger ships. The forums flew in action with generally very strong arguments on both sides of the fence, but the greatest voice belonged to those against the nerf. Given the nature of EVE’s skill progression, many players spent weeks and months acquiring the skills they needed for their ideal setups, and to have the effectiveness of something you’ve spent time and money achieving greatly reduced is a good way to alienate paying customers.
Strike Three
If one fallout was not good enough, CCP decided to rather underhandedly ‘deal with the issue of ghost-training’. ‘Ghost Training’ is the name that CCP bestowed upon the ability to begin training a skill before a subscription runs out, and that skill would continue training even when the account was no longer active. A company that has been maintaining and updating a game and its corresponding website for 5 years is not really allowed to lie about a game feature being a bug, especially when the only benefit of fixing this ‘bug’ would be to the company’s wallet. Unfortunately for CCP many of the players who inhabit New Eden were born with brains and were quick to rip through the weak excuse given by the company (apparently it affected game balance…) and provided many examples of unbalanced game mechanics regarding unsubscribed accounts that remain unchanged. CCP outdid themselves, locking the first forum thread on this topic, presumably due to the sheer bombardment of anger resonating from the posts within. They were also quick to edit the official player guide when it was pointed out that their ‘bug’ was masquerading as a sanctioned feature of the game.
You’re Out
Many alt accounts were terminated on hearing the news, and many more due to the dishonesty employed by the company to dupe players into believing this change was for their own good. Surely if anyone amongst the ranks of the company were actually reading these posts, they could have done better than to release two weedy attempts at damage control, which resulted in further anger and yet more players leaving for other, less tainted lands such as Middle-Earth or Azeroth. Jumpgate Evolution has also received publicity within the forums of EVE Online, which must add sting to blow that CCP bought upon itself.
I’m Out
EVE no longer has a feature present in many other MMOs; the incentive to return. Most other games of the genre sport some form of bonus to returning players, the most common being boosted experience. I recently logged into Lord of the Rings Online, and the friendly blue bar at the bottom of the screen let me know that I had been missed. The only thing returning EVE players will have is another series of nerfs, higher price GTCs and the ability to walk around stations, which I somehow doubt will single-handedly make up for the impressive string of buffoonery performed by the truly unique people running CCP’s PR department.
Basuru
The Basuru Guru
Comments
I agree and really , eve has made little improve ment on many of their core activities such as missioning, mining, and productions (which as got the most). Why not give players something new to do.
"Society in every state is a blessing, but government even in its best state is but a necessary evil; in its worst state an intolerable one ..." - Thomas Paine
can't...resist..
Can i have your stuff, if there's any left?
I've already been beaten to it, but I feel I must still make the request:
Can I have your stuff?
WOULD YOU LIKE SOME CHEESE WITH THAT
funny post, even funnier responses, i love the fanboiz.
He must be the dev that got fired over T20, sounds like he knows what they are doing over there.
Yeah, if the above 2 people dont get your stuff, may I have it??
good post.
Posting in a Hybrid Nano whineGhost thread!!!
Another great example of Moore's Law. Give people access to that much space (developers and users alike) and they'll find uses for it that you can never imagine. "640K ought to be enough for anybody" - Bill Gates 1981
HYPERION: I would like to point out that although I have included a little whining about T20/Nano/Ghost, my main issue is with CCP’s allergy to getting things right.
Overtime
It seems that the company has forgotten that it needs to please the playerbase, as EVE is a luxury that people do not need to spend their hard earned money on, particularly during the economic crisis everyone is wailing about. I was pointing out CCP has not really done much for players since they made the game in the first place. Fair enough; the game has received patches with some new content and such, but for the most part calling these ‘expansions’ is a little bit tongue in cheek to say the least. Players are still running the same 15/20 identical missions where they have to blow up yet another escaped spy with plans for brain-melting soft drink in their cargo hold.
Besides, the idiocy to genius ratio is greatly lacking in the latter. Why? In one month CCP has successfully angered players on two separate occasions, and made them feel unheeded and taken for granted. Amongst the storm of nerfing/lying/money grabbing/making things worse by treating an already alienated customerbase like idiots/lying some more, the best CCP can do as a peace offering is say – “Yeah, walking around in stations will happen at some point one day maybe, and we’re also releasing an expansion at Christmas that something with ‘Quantum’ in the name.”
As for ‘can I have your stuff’ comments, well you’re all a bit late; a friend in RL was subject to a similar rant to the above and claimed dominion over my affects in EVE. Anyways, I’m sure if I gave you my stuff it’ll ‘upset the balance of the game’ by being ‘unfair to new players’ as well as the whole item trading/giving money function being ‘an unintended bug’ that is only in the player guide due ‘to outsourcing… repeatedly’.
The Basuru Guru
ok I'll bite
With the exception of creating an open-ended hardcore PVP game in persistent universe-You mean.
Truthfully, almost all of CCP's decisions (several of which I have not been fond of) can be traced to two things, protecting the hardcore PVP integrity of the game and eliminating lag. The only thing they have really failed at, is finding away to effectively reduce lag on a single server game. Although, it should be noted that they have made progress.
It should also be noted that if you want to quest your way to PVE bliss, there are plenty of games that will allow you to do so and have a really great time.
I agree with the points especially about the point EVE lacks incentives to entice returning players.
However, I'm uncertain if it's a legit reason to leave for good. If you leave, leave because the game is dull or you hate timed based training like everyone else
Right now I'm taking a break to play console/PC titles however I might maintain a sub. I dunno yet though. There's nothing else out there MMO wise for me really
Perhaps I should’ve have written “since CCP developed an allergy to getting things right”, perhaps that would have conveyed my meaning more clearly. My issue is not with the game. Either what way; EVE is a good game by many standards. The company, the customer service, the price and the attitude towards paying players are all bad by many standards.
The PVE quip made me chuckle in my middle-class waders. You’ve a few assumptions about me, which are irrelevant to the argument, but none-the-less; I am aware that EVE is a multi-faceted game, but the argument of ‘if you like PVE, find something else’ is a little odd. It wouldn’t take much time to come up with some new missions for those that do PVE, how hard is it to type variations of ‘Jump 2 gates away, warp, shoot, come back’? It would be far more constructive than wasting time and losing customers over some ridiculous changes and lies.
As for incentives to return, again that is an open case. I like to feel like there should be something there to entice me to spend more money on something again, boosted experience is one way, ‘Ghost Training’ was another. Now EVE has lost ‘Ghost Training’, and it has long since lost flexible subscription times, things that most MMOs take for granted. It seems that CCP expects people to pay for a sub-par service, where they can change their mind about anything and everything, and that no-one will move on.
The Basuru Guru
A fair point, I have to agree.
Still, you say EVE is a good game by many standards. Isn't producing a good game CCP most important responsibility? Isn't ever thing else just window dressing?
As for PVE it's lame and I wish it wasn't. If CCP were to truly invest in PVE, wouldn't they do so at the risk of undercutting the thing that has brought them to where they are? I don't think this is an easy question to answer and I can't fault CCP for the path they have chosen.
If it were up to me, I would love to go back to pre-revelations but that isn't going to happen. So for me that means two things, Reduce lag and let PVE wither on the vine. IMHO
Still, I have to agree CCP does seem a little dysfunctional from time to time.
The whole Nano whine can be translated to the following; "waaah, they're removing my overpowered FOTY toys which I trained for real hard since I want easy mode. For long I laughed at anyone who didn't use nanos because it made me feel better and more uberderderder, now I'll have to find another way to boost my ego".
The whole ghost training whine can be translated to: "waaaah, now that they actually want me to pay for ingame progress I swear I'm gonna cancel my 17 accounts, and so will my 87 friends!!!!. Also I'm trying my very best to somehow justify ghost training wether or not I have to bend space, time and logic for it!!!!".
The big problem with nano-nerf isn't so much the fact that the devs are stopping ludicrious speeds. It's the fact that the entire balance of the game will be upset. You're frnakly foolish not to listen to the veterans that have been extensively testing these changes on SiSi
Assault frigs will still blow
Stealth bombers will still be unpopular for use
Amarr will still be favored
Gallente will be even worst off.
Training for HACs isn't a small investment for most players either. We're talking Cruiser V, Hull Upgrades V, Assault skills (Elec V, mech V), Weapon Upgrades V, Spaceship V, etc.
If you trained for this and now your ship becomes nothing more then an overpriced cruiser you would be pissed too. I fortunately didnt train for it (although I could be within an ishtar within a month) but I'm not dumb enought to mock those that are getting this nerf.
Anyway, fanbois will be fanbois and always pucker up to anything the devs do and earn themselves a spot on my ignore list
Your stuff, may I have it ?
Anyway,true players will adapt to changes,if you have being playing for a long time you should be accustomed to constant nerfs to FTOM and should have trained for something else aswell.
I dont know what's funnier ,random people who have not played EVE ever/have played for 1 hour comming here and complaining about fanboys and just randomly trolling or the OP who feels compeled to write a wall of text.
So, in 6 years they did 3 things wrong? Wow, go home man. They nerfed a skill, removed an exploit (GT), and a GM did something stupid once?
If this is bad to you, I'd like to see you to deal with real companies. Actually, most MMOs have done things far worse (NGE anyone?)
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they shot themselves totally.
talk about a company killing its own game.
???
How is nerfing something kill the game? Every MMO makes nerfs. And what MMO allows character progression while you arn't even a subscriber?
You guys need to stop the QQ, it's not backed up by anything.
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The concept of nerfing in general is not the issue, but rather that CCP nerfed an entire section of the game, ruining it for many players and rendering a few ship classes nigh on useless. Besides this isn’t WOW, or LOTRO; a person can’t just swap a few skills to and from their active slots, in EVE as you know it takes time and money. I fully agree with PatchDay, the time required to train justifies the efficiency of the craft, as it is indeed no small investment from the player.
In response to qazyman; I agree that making a good game is part of their responsibility, but as they are a subscription service; everything else I have mentioned is relevant. I disagree with your point about improving PVE being difficult, as all I asked for was a little more variety, not better loot or anything of that nature. If EVE functioned in the same way as Guild Wars, i.e. Purchase of the game is required, but no further costs, I’d be inclined to agree with you. But as it stands CCP are not delivering satisfactory service.
Sorellian, it appears you have missed the point of my post. In short; CCP are not pleasing the playerbase. You yourself have noted that people are not happy with this, leading me to wonder why you are defending the decisions made by the company by proving that customers are unhappy…
demolishIX, I’m a little bemused by your reply… It doesn’t seem to achieve anything in this discussion. Feel free to write something with substance, the more the merrier. Also, I’d like to note you were never forced to confront said ‘wall of text’, if it was not to your taste.
“So, in 6 years they did 3 things wrong? Wow, go home man. They nerfed a skill, removed an exploit (GT), and a GM did something stupid once?
If this is bad to you, I'd like to see you to deal with real companies. Actually, most MMOs have done things far worse (NGE anyone?)”
That is a little annoying. Congratulations on your ability to count, I can confirm that I have used three examples. If only there was an option to present you with a little gold star for stating the obvious. If you glance at the forums, I am sure that you will see other examples of lesser importance that have not been dealt with in a professional manner. CCP’s customer service alone is something that I have heard negative points about almost every time I log into the forums.
As it happen those three events are, from my knowledge, the three biggest mishaps in CCPs career, each one resulting in anger, frustration and mistrust from many players. If you want to keep paying a company that lies and does not heed its own customers, feel free. I just think that this is a competitive niche market, and CCP need to up their game to be worthy of rising monthly fees.
The Basuru Guru
On PVE
I'm not saying It would be difficult, I'm saying it would be a bad decision. There are many games out there that fill that role extremely well. It's not reasonable to think EVE could make the transition and compete against those games. They probably wouldn't fair any better with some form of hybrid. I think they have taken the best course for them and where they came from. However, this does mean taking the heat from an "industry" that sees games through a "WOW" covered lens.
On Nerf's......Don't get me started, though in a way it does go back to staying true to your roots. Every nerf I can think of has been designed to do one of two things. Reduce lag or tweak PVP.
Still, I will agree that pleasing the player base is not a top concern of CCP and maybe thats a bad thing, but I do think they are focused on putting out the best game they think they are capable of and I see the logic in that.