Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!

What Do SWG Vets Think?

As someone who played SWG until the NGE, I'm deeply dissapointed, though not surprised by any means, by the direction Bioware seems to be taking this game. To me, it looks like a single player MMO with a few instances that will require grouping with other people. Thus I have to ask:

"Should we really consider this game an MMO?"

I'm pretty cynical anymore when it comes to MMOs, particularly since I seem to be one of the few people who can recognize the rehashing of the same concept with a different skin that has repeatedly dogged the MMO experience for me. So it looks to me like Bioware is just trying to cash in on the whole MMORPG market using their previous successes as a foundation. It's like someone suggested one day:

"Lets make our next KOTOR game an MMORPG so we have a continuous flow of cash"

When I look at SWTOR's website, I see no mention of guild content, PVP, player cities, or anything that should drive people to play an MMO. Why, after all, should someone pay a monthly fee to play what is basically a single player game? 

I must confess that I didn't like any of the KOTOR games because to me, the time spent on developing a character and taking them through the game world amounted to nothing because all the time you put into the character ultimately meant nothing. The advent of the MMO allows people to continuously develop their character, and lets be honest, show off our achievements. Most important is the comradery and competition between guilds. How many stories and experiences do we best recall from our MMOs that stem only from single player content? Probably not too many.

As an SWG vet, I'm not going to hold my breath on this one. I'm done with the cookie cutter hand holding that companies are using to attract their market. 

I don't want someone to tell me a story, I want to tell other people MY story.

«13

Comments

  • ganbeeganbee Member Posts: 233

    OP, good post!

  • lapommelapomme Member Posts: 270

    Bioware's awesome development and creative thinking died a long ass time ago.  If you know anything about Bioware, you could see this trash coming from a mile away.

     

    Good post OP.

  • WharmasterWharmaster Member Posts: 234

    Eh...we still know next to nothing about the actual game. A lot could change, as well.

    I'm cautiously optimistic.

    And if all else fails...there is still the EMU.

    I remember back in 1999, folks kept asking me if I was stockpiling food. I always answered, "No, I'm stockpiling ammo and making a list of people who are stockpiling food"

  • KorususKorusus Member UncommonPosts: 831
    Originally posted by Daedalus732


    As someone who played SWG until the NGE, I'm deeply dissapointed, though not surprised by any means, by the direction Bioware seems to be taking this game. To me, it looks like a single player MMO with a few instances that will require grouping with other people. Thus I have to ask:
    "Should we really consider this game an MMO?"
    I'm pretty cynical anymore when it comes to MMOs, particularly since I seem to be one of the few people who can recognize the rehashing of the same concept with a different skin that has repeatedly dogged the MMO experience for me. So it looks to me like Bioware is just trying to cash in on the whole MMORPG market using their previous successes as a foundation. It's like someone suggested one day:
    "Lets make our next KOTOR game an MMORPG so we have a continuous flow of cash"
    When I look at SWTOR's website, I see no mention of guild content, PVP, player cities, or anything that should drive people to play an MMO. Why, after all, should someone pay a monthly fee to play what is basically a single player game? 
    I must confess that I didn't like any of the KOTOR games because to me, the time spent on developing a character and taking them through the game world amounted to nothing because all the time you put into the character ultimately meant nothing. The advent of the MMO allows people to continuously develop their character, and lets be honest, show off our achievements. Most important is the comradery and competition between guilds. How many stories and experiences do we best recall from our MMOs that stem only from single player content? Probably not too many.
    As an SWG vet, I'm not going to hold my breath on this one. I'm done with the cookie cutter hand holding that companies are using to attract their market. 
    I don't want someone to tell me a story, I want to tell other people MY story.

    I highlighted the important part it'll make it easier.  If you didn't like Knights of the Old Republic (which was designed with the same philosophy as the rest of BioWare's single player RPGs) then this MMO is not meant for you.

     

     Don't worry, there's no need to be upset.  I'm sure one day a developer will come along and make a sandbox style game that's popular enough to be enjoyed (maybe Bethesda, they're good at sandbox games and they're designing an MMO even as we speak), but to expect that from BioWare is just nonsense.  Long before we knew this would be Star Wars we knew it wasn't going to be sandbox...why?  Because BioWare said so, that's why.

     

    ----------
    Life sucks, buy a helmet.

  • LocklainLocklain Member Posts: 2,154

    The "rehashing of ideas" that you speak of is what the majority if MMO gamers want.  The vocal minority are those that frequent game forums that we hear complain about MMO aspects of today.  Even less of that minority actually know what they want anyway and only echo what others are saying.

    Gone are the days of working for what you get, now all you need is a credit card and some time.

    It's a Jeep thing. . .
    _______
    |___image|
    \_______/
    = image||||||image =
    |X| \*........*/ |X|
    |X|_________|X|
    You wouldn't understand
  • Daedalus732Daedalus732 Member Posts: 589
    Originally posted by Korusus


    I highlighted the important part it'll make it easier.  If you didn't like Knights of the Old Republic (which was designed with the same philosophy as the rest of BioWare's single player RPGs) then this MMO is not meant for you.

     

    I didn't enjoy those games because to me, putting hundreds of hours into a single player RPG is meaningless. For me, an MMO is about other people. Whether that's working in a group towards a common goal or PVP, or city building, or whatever.

  • JT1228JT1228 Member Posts: 23

    I for one love KotoR and so far I'm not happy with the direction this game is going, I know its still early, but atm it looks like WoW with lightsabers. I wont be holding my breath, but I was really hoping for something better.

  • ganbeeganbee Member Posts: 233

    e

  • Daedalus732Daedalus732 Member Posts: 589
    Originally posted by Locklain


    The "rehashing of ideas" that you speak of is what the majority if MMO gamers want.  The vocal minority are those that frequent game forums that we hear complain about MMO aspects of today.  Even less of that minority actually know what they want anyway and only echo what others are saying.
    Gone are the days of working for what you get, now all you need is a credit card and some time.

     

    That's unfortunately really true.

    I'm probably one of the few people out there then that has very specific ideas for a game. Unfortunately I'm in no position to make it.

  • solarinesolarine Member Posts: 1,203
    Originally posted by Daedalus732



    I must confess that I didn't like any of the KOTOR games because to me, the time spent on developing a character and taking them through the game world amounted to nothing because all the time you put into the character ultimately meant nothing.


     

    So... when you get to the end of a good book, you feel the time you put in to get there ultimately meant nothing?

    Also, about telling your stories... People don't seem to recognize it, but creating stories is a craft and it takes talent as well. In my experience, when let loose on the world without some good professional storyline to ground them, a huge part of the playerbase tend to just be plain boring and about as predictable as your ordinary mob.

    No, if I'm paying for any sort of narrative experience, I expect good stories. I don't care what sort of freedom I may or may not have otherwise.

    Again, to me, a Dostoevksy novel beats a random blank page any day.

  • Daedalus732Daedalus732 Member Posts: 589
    Originally posted by ganbee


    Warhammer people,
    This not a blast, stop posting and play your awsome game! Funny,  That game is for ignorant people who pay 15$ a month.  Savage online will save you loads of cash! You need too spend more time on your game instead of posting! Afterall you are paying for it!

     

    When I get home and have some time, I will in fact be playing Warhammer, which is a game I am currently enjoying. More so because I have a nice guild with close friends. 

    The whole "play your game and stop posting" crap is a pretty sad attempt at a reply. I'm at work on the internet. No games for me here.

  • KorususKorusus Member UncommonPosts: 831
    Originally posted by JT1228


    I for one love KotoR and so far I'm not happy with the direction this game is going, I know its still early, but atm it looks like WoW with lightsabers. I wont be holding my breath, but I was really hoping for something better.

    Like what exactly?  What could BioWare do differently that would make it not "WoW with lightsabers" as you call it and still be true to their design philosophy that they've adhered to since the days of Baldur's Gate and not simply be SWG2?

    ----------
    Life sucks, buy a helmet.

  • LocklainLocklain Member Posts: 2,154
    Originally posted by ganbee


    Warhammer people,
    This not a blast, stop posting and play your awsome game! Funny,  That game is for ignorant people who pay 15$ a month.  Savage online will save you loads of cash! You need too spend more time on your game instead of posting! Afterall you are paying for it!

    Person that thinks they know everything,

    someof us have job!  No play game at job!  Haha lawlerz!; Go playz Savage Online!  Sounds grood you shuld spend mor time pwning faze in it!

    Moral of the story here, its my money I will do with it whatever I please.

    It's a Jeep thing. . .
    _______
    |___image|
    \_______/
    = image||||||image =
    |X| \*........*/ |X|
    |X|_________|X|
    You wouldn't understand
  • ganbeeganbee Member Posts: 233

    I did Edit my post/thread

    Locklain,  Good luck on that game! I will see you six month's, and will be talking about Darkfall and how much it suck's. There be no replies cause as a gamer we tend to play; not post!

  • ThunderousThunderous Member Posts: 1,152

    I love Bioware games.  From KotOR to Mass Effect, I've enjoyed every one of their games I have played.  I don't see why this one has to be any different.

    I'll get my sandbox from Darkfall and Fallen Earth, I'll get my Star Wars kicks from TOR. 

    I trust Bioware to make a FUN game.  Ultimately, FUN is the goal. 

    Tecmo Bowl.

  • JT1228JT1228 Member Posts: 23
    Originally posted by Korusus

    Originally posted by JT1228


    I for one love KotoR and so far I'm not happy with the direction this game is going, I know its still early, but atm it looks like WoW with lightsabers. I wont be holding my breath, but I was really hoping for something better.

    Like what exactly?  What could BioWare do differently that would make it not "WoW with lightsabers" as you call it and still be true to their design philosophy that they've adhered to since the days of Baldur's Gate and not simply be SWG2?

     

    Easy, make it open ended. You start with a base of skills and the rest is up to you. I'm so sick and tired of MMO's forcing you to play a certain way, why is it so hard to make an mmo without the mass amounts of quest's? Guess 5 years of EvE and 2 years of pre-NGE SWG has me set in my ways.

    All i'm saying, I pay to play your game, let me play it my way.

     

  • KorususKorusus Member UncommonPosts: 831
    Originally posted by Thunderous


    I love Bioware games.  From KotOR to Mass Effect, I've enjoyed every one of their games I have played.  I don't see why this one has to be any different.
    I'll get my sandbox from Darkfall and Fallen Earth, I'll get my Star Wars kicks from TOR. 
    I trust Bioware to make a FUN game.  Ultimately, FUN is the goal. 

     

    Truer words have never been spoken. 

    Unfortunately we MMO fans are a cynical and downtrodden lot that rarely sees something not worth complaining about.  It's just in this case the complaints are not only premature but ridiculous.  To expect BioWare to do anything other than...literally what BioWare does is in short RIDICULOUS. 

    ----------
    Life sucks, buy a helmet.

  • BlodplsBlodpls Member Posts: 1,454

    Lol, I can see whats going to happen here. 

    There will be a protracted row between fans and naysayers for a couple of years whilst excitment builds up and then when it releases within a month everyone will be saying "gah this is boring and the subs are dropping like stone, damn you EA, you fooled us again!!!"  

    History has a habit of repeating itself.  

  • DarkHolocronDarkHolocron Member Posts: 15

    I personally am VERY happy with what im reading about TOR so far. Yes... there is alot more info to come but I really trust BioWare.

  • KorususKorusus Member UncommonPosts: 831
    Originally posted by JT1228

    Originally posted by Korusus

    Originally posted by JT1228


    I for one love KotoR and so far I'm not happy with the direction this game is going, I know its still early, but atm it looks like WoW with lightsabers. I wont be holding my breath, but I was really hoping for something better.

    Like what exactly?  What could BioWare do differently that would make it not "WoW with lightsabers" as you call it and still be true to their design philosophy that they've adhered to since the days of Baldur's Gate and not simply be SWG2?

     

    Easy, make it open ended. You start with a base of skills and the rest is up to you. I'm so sick and tired of MMO's forcing you to play a certain way, why is it so hard to make an mmo without the mass amounts of quest's? Guess 5 years of EvE and 2 years of pre-NGE SWG has me set in my ways.

    All i'm saying, I pay to play your game, let me play it my way.

     

    Not easy.  You broke the "true to their design philosophy" part.  Why would you expect an open-ended world from a developer that doesn't do open-ended worlds?  You don't go to Blizzard expecting them to design EvE do you?  Why would you go to BioWare expecting them to design EvE either (a game I find incredibly boring and shallow, but that's neither here nor there)?

    ----------
    Life sucks, buy a helmet.

  • RayalistRayalist Member Posts: 211
    Originally posted by Blodpls


    Lol, I can see whats going to happen here. 
    There will be a protracted row between fans and naysayers for a couple of years whilst excitment builds up and then when it releases within a month everyone will be saying "gah this is boring and the subs are dropping like stone, damn you EA, you fooled us again!!!"  
    History has a habit of repeating itself.  

     

    Yeah, but you'd think people would learn when it happens pretty much every month in the MMO industry. That's what amazes me.

  • JT1228JT1228 Member Posts: 23
    Originally posted by Korusus

    Originally posted by JT1228

    Originally posted by Korusus

    Originally posted by JT1228


    I for one love KotoR and so far I'm not happy with the direction this game is going, I know its still early, but atm it looks like WoW with lightsabers. I wont be holding my breath, but I was really hoping for something better.

    Like what exactly?  What could BioWare do differently that would make it not "WoW with lightsabers" as you call it and still be true to their design philosophy that they've adhered to since the days of Baldur's Gate and not simply be SWG2?

     

    Easy, make it open ended. You start with a base of skills and the rest is up to you. I'm so sick and tired of MMO's forcing you to play a certain way, why is it so hard to make an mmo without the mass amounts of quest's? Guess 5 years of EvE and 2 years of pre-NGE SWG has me set in my ways.

    All i'm saying, I pay to play your game, let me play it my way.

     

    Not easy.  You broke the "true to their design philosophy" part.  Why would you expect an open-ended world from a developer that doesn't do open-ended worlds?  You don't go to Blizzard expecting them to design EvE do you?  Why would you go to BioWare expecting them to design EvE either (a game I find incredibly boring and shallow, but that's neither here nor there)?

    Ok I never said I wanted another EvE game, so please dont put words in my mouth, I said I wanted an OPEN WORLD. I guess my way of thinking is, we already have one SW MMO that doesnt let you play your own way, why do we need 2? i guess I wont be happy unless they make it an open world, so I'll just wait and see.

  • WRyanWRyan Member Posts: 266
    Originally posted by Daedalus732


    As someone who played SWG until the NGE, I'm deeply dissapointed, though not surprised by any means, by the direction Bioware seems to be taking this game. To me, it looks like a single player MMO with a few instances that will require grouping with other people. Thus I have to ask:
    "Should we really consider this game an MMO?"
    I'm pretty cynical anymore when it comes to MMOs, particularly since I seem to be one of the few people who can recognize the rehashing of the same concept with a different skin that has repeatedly dogged the MMO experience for me. So it looks to me like Bioware is just trying to cash in on the whole MMORPG market using their previous successes as a foundation. It's like someone suggested one day:
    "Lets make our next KOTOR game an MMORPG so we have a continuous flow of cash"
    When I look at SWTOR's website, I see no mention of guild content, PVP, player cities, or anything that should drive people to play an MMO. Why, after all, should someone pay a monthly fee to play what is basically a single player game? 
    I must confess that I didn't like any of the KOTOR games because to me, the time spent on developing a character and taking them through the game world amounted to nothing because all the time you put into the character ultimately meant nothing. The advent of the MMO allows people to continuously develop their character, and lets be honest, show off our achievements. Most important is the comradery and competition between guilds. How many stories and experiences do we best recall from our MMOs that stem only from single player content? Probably not too many.
    As an SWG vet, I'm not going to hold my breath on this one. I'm done with the cookie cutter hand holding that companies are using to attract their market. 
    I don't want someone to tell me a story, I want to tell other people MY story.



     

    No offense, because you are entitled to your opinion on the matter... but it seems to me that you're being a little too biased on this game.

    It's true, they spoke nothing about the game except the thing that no other MMO has - story... more specific personal character story development.  This single thing alone is truely revolutionary.  The mere fact that they are even attempting this is quite honestly, unbelievable.  No other MMO on the market, past or present, has even attempted this on such a personal level.

    Most MMO's have some sort of overarching story that motivates and facilitates the need for some sort of conflict between factioned players.  And that's pretty much where it stopped in all MMO's.  Everyone did the same quests, with the same outcome for every quest.  Some quests were factionally alligned, thereby excluding players of other factions from participating.  The bulk of the quests never have anything to do with any other part of the game.

    If you can't appreciate a complete 180 in quest design alone, then I'm sorry to say, that maybe you aren't ready for a new MMO at all.  Quests, no matter what the game offers otherwise, is the content of the game.  It's what you build your character from.  I would think everyone would be happy about this.  It's a no brainer.

    As for PvP type things... They didn't speak hardly any about it, but they did acknowledge it's importance.  You have two factions - the Sith Empire and the Galactic Republic.  They're in a Cold War.  They basically spelled it out in a way that would suggest that this is fundamentally what you need for awesome PvP between two factions.  What this means to me is, that there is no huge major battle, but more like smaller skirmishes that are kept secret or private.  I don't know about you guys, but that has GvsG PvP written all over it.

    I don't think this will be another Guildwars.  It would be easy to suggest that... but I have a feeling that Bioware, Lucasarts, and EA coming together to make anything but a truely next-gen MMO attempt on all levels, is a little absurd and quite ignorant to fathom.  I don't think it will offer every feature SWG offered, but I think that a lot of the stuff SWG featured didn't work in the first place, and will probably be replaced with other things.

    I'm not blinded by fanboism on this either.  I am just optimistic about things so far, until they start talking more about it in detail.  We still have a long ways to go before it's going to be even Beta ready.  My money is on a May 2011 release.

  • TookyGTookyG Warhammer Online CorrespondentMember UncommonPosts: 1,115

    As a day 1 SWG vet I think that SWTOR:

    • When compared to SWG-NGE can only be better by light years.
    • Isn't associated with SOE

    That's 80% of what I need to know.

    Until you cancel your subscription, you are only helping to continue the cycle of mediocrity.

  • bstrippbstripp Member Posts: 241

    Wow.

    It's pretty amazing to read both expectations and comparisons from people in this board.  Sure, I can understand being mad about your game changing.  Anytime that happens it stinks.  

    However, to expect or even think that a company like Bioware, known for telling great stories, is going to recreate an already failed sandbox game is pretty ludicrous.  Bioware makes great SP games, they are known for cutscene driven stories with decent writing and usually a pretty cinematic experience.  While anything is possible, to expect a company to jump out of it's expertise is really pretty silly. 

    Saying that it's a WoW clone is also pretty uninformed.  If you've played any of their titles, please point out any one of them that was a gear based grind fest.  That's not what they do.  The game will be a cinematic based game and I would be willing to bet that levels and gear play substantially lesser roles.  Think about Mass Effect, Jade Empire, or any of their titles.  Sure you had progression, but it was story based progression as much as character based progression.  Frankly, if you are going to lump this in with WoW, you might as well label pre-CU/NGE SWG as a WoW clone as well.

    For better or worse it is unlikely anyone is going to make pre CU/NGE SWG again.  It failed the first time around for varrious reasons; the developers, Sony, customers demands to be Jedi, customers leaving for more polished titles, etc.  Why would anyone want to put it back on the market again?  They were shedding subs when they made changes to address all these issues in the first place, going back to that state is not going to happen.  Now they likely bothched their changes, which made them lose more people, but the changes happened beacuse they were losing subs in the first place.

    What you have to hope for, is that someone will want to make another Sandbox title for you.  It'll likely happen at some point, but this is not that point, nor should it be.  Frankly I'll be interested to see how their version of the MMO goes down.  If they can manage to make an MMO with the SP experience they deliver in their other titles, they'll have created something very unique in the industry.  As to whether people will want it, that's another story.

Sign In or Register to comment.