Problem with rvr in WAR is that the scenarios give out way too much experience. Either they need to drastically raise the xp in rvr(50% is not enough) or lower it in scenarios. Same with quest/public quest experience. That shit is way too low compared with scenarios. People will ALWAYS choose the road of least resistance. It's just buggers like me who go the odd way around, but we are in staggering minority. With that said, rvr in WoW is a bleeding joke. Why? The servers can't handle the stress most of the time, no global effect if you kill the city boss and so on. Just wait till everyone have gotten their mount then what WoW call rvr, will be a ghost town again. WoW is a pve game with a pvp afterthought, WAR the excact opposite. So again, this is a useless, ignorant troll thread. Go away, troll.
WotLK changed it already in it's pre launch patch.
Not a night goes by without a City raid or 4, 5 on SW on Al'Akir. And SW is but one of the many capitols to raid.
)
I think your missing the point, your promoting WoW in the WAR forum. You are giving advertising to a company that couldn't care less if you were dead or alive (So long as you pay their monthly fee).
MMO's will always be about the dungeons and loot to me, has been since ultima online. PVP in MMO's is in my opinion, for people who can't play a true pvp game, an FPS. i've said it before and i'll say it again, there will never be a good pvp MMO unless every class is the same, because as long as your items, your race, your class, and your level makes a difference, it will always be bullshit of who is what class and who is what level, and who has the most badass gear, skill will never be involved. you can't balance multiple classes evenly. it will never happen. there will be flavor of the month each neft bat comes out, the hoard of players will switch to the one class who has the i-win buttons.
so, i play fps games when i want to pvp and test my skill, i play mmo's to kill some frikken dragons.
PvE is for people who have no skill. Sorry scripts arnt a challenge. And im damn good in FPS, always top the charts. And PvP takes more brains than FPS, in FPS its all about the eye hand coordination and how quick u can react. They play two different ways.
your so modest omg , so you think your good so does alot of poeples btw people dont play pve because they think they have skill but mainly because it's fun and they like to achieve that kind of goal within a game , i recommend just a little respect for other people choice and what they like .
Problem with rvr in WAR is that the scenarios give out way too much experience. Either they need to drastically raise the xp in rvr(50% is not enough) or lower it in scenarios. Same with quest/public quest experience. That shit is way too low compared with scenarios. People will ALWAYS choose the road of least resistance. It's just buggers like me who go the odd way around, but we are in staggering minority. With that said, rvr in WoW is a bleeding joke. Why? The servers can't handle the stress most of the time, no global effect if you kill the city boss and so on. Just wait till everyone have gotten their mount then what WoW call rvr, will be a ghost town again. WoW is a pve game with a pvp afterthought, WAR the excact opposite. So again, this is a useless, ignorant troll thread. Go away, troll.
WotLK changed it already in it's pre launch patch.
Not a night goes by without a City raid or 4, 5 on SW on Al'Akir. And SW is but one of the many capitols to raid.
)
I think your missing the point, your promoting WoW in the WAR forum. You are giving advertising to a company that couldn't care less if you were dead or alive (So long as you pay their monthly fee).
I played WoW 1-70 twice, hated it, played end game, hated it, pvp'd, hated it. It was complete garbage, I only played it because of friends and family, who now have either quit or moved on to WAR.
It wasn't complex, it didn't make you think, its the Counterstrike of the MMO genre, but atleast counterstrike players need to be able to aim.
If god wanted us to aim in CS he wouldnt have made aim bots and AWPs.
MMO's will always be about the dungeons and loot to me, has been since ultima online. PVP in MMO's is in my opinion, for people who can't play a true pvp game, an FPS. i've said it before and i'll say it again, there will never be a good pvp MMO unless every class is the same, because as long as your items, your race, your class, and your level makes a difference, it will always be bullshit of who is what class and who is what level, and who has the most badass gear, skill will never be involved. you can't balance multiple classes evenly. it will never happen. there will be flavor of the month each neft bat comes out, the hoard of players will switch to the one class who has the i-win buttons.
so, i play fps games when i want to pvp and test my skill, i play mmo's to kill some frikken dragons.
PvE is for people who have no skill. Sorry scripts arnt a challenge. And im damn good in FPS, always top the charts. And PvP takes more brains than FPS, in FPS its all about the eye hand coordination and how quick u can react. They play two different ways.
I like pvp but its the path of least resistance. Pvp satisfies those moments when you don't want to think too hard. Theres a player....I'll use something on him hoping it will do alot of damage....oh it doesn't....I'll try this then....that didn't help much.....wait this will hurt him I know.....k, I'm almost dead now.....I'll keep hitting him anyway. No skill there. Sometimes you're LUCKY and kill your victim. Unless you're many levels above the player you're attacking thats how most pvp battles occur and if the player is many levels below you where is the challenge in that?
Skill might work if you knew all the attacks / spells your opponent has to use. Even if you did there are variables that can quickly turn the battle into your favor or your victims favor. As examples, the morale abilities in war, buffs and potions found in all mmorpgs.
Skill might also work if you were paired against a similar class (again you'll need to know everything your opponent could use against you) but how often do order and destruction pair up before a battle? I haven't seen that yet. Its all run around and hit anything that moves like, imo, every mmorpg pvp game.
The perceived idea of using skill in pvp comes from not knowing what the other player will do and the reaction you use to counter the player. Its luck of the draw....no real skill.
The problem with WOW and the killing of the city leaders is, it is not a siege (RVR). All you need to do is get 3 people in one of the vacant areas of the city and "port" your army in. This has been done so many times in the past from the basement of the cathedral and vacant areas of the dwarven district and other areas. Same with Ogrimmar. Virtually impossible to defend from.
Nice idea but lacks substance. Kind of cheap really.
And as mentioned earlier, these tactics in the past would crash the servers, and that is why Blizz went to the instanced BG's and put a penalty on world PVP. So it will be interesting to see if this remains in the game.
for one there isnt alot of max lvl ppl yet... and wow has been out for 5 or 6 years so there are tons of higher lvl ppl to do the raids war has just started wow didnt have anything close to wars rvr when it first released
how big is wintergrasp pvp zone in wow? is it as big as a zone say, marshes of madness in war? if it is then i think blizzard has the better game. they just need another pvp zone or two. i never understood why people say theres no open pvp in wow. i instigated many fights beginning in some outlying countryside and ending up at a capitol city gate. its a fun game. some guy above said how he played wow 1-70 twice and raided and hated it lol, whyd you play so long? anyway blizz can look at all the games and say we will do this better then throw a billion dollars at it.
Frankly I would like to see the scenarios play out more like the battlegrounds from DAoC. They offered more substance, opposed to the flash in the pan RvR action scenarios give right now. The way scenarios are structured rewards the solo AoE spammer. When I jump on my BW, I will typically be taking the top XP prize by pumping out DoTs and AE, regardless if my side wins.
The way the Battlegrounds were played pratically forced group play to take the respective keep. The reason why battlegrounds, and in war the rvr lakes seemed like a great idea is that people were funneled into the locations for some good fights.
Scenarios as they stand right now give the largest XP/hour than any other form of the game. This really doesn't make much sense, considering the main aspect of the game are the keep & city sieges. They need to bring the scenarios in line with Public Quests. Either by extending the points needed to win, or lowering the win bonus. I'm not opposed to the XP per say, but the huge disparity in what scenarios offer compared to elsewhere is a problem.
I think that you can get a good keep/castle fight when you play primetime, but other than that you really would have to server bounce to find continuous action. I know they gave the lake RvR a 50% bonus, and it's great when you can get some zerg vs zerg action. Though the saving grace is really the same, during primetime you can grab some great large scale fights. Something that can't really be said for WoW. There really wasn't a period where you could find reliable world PvP. Besides sweeping through STV until people started logging into their mains. Although I wouldn't consider that exactly the same.
how big is wintergrasp pvp zone in wow? is it as big as a zone say, marshes of madness in war? if it is then i think blizzard has the better game. they just need another pvp zone or two. i never understood why people say theres no open pvp in wow. i instigated many fights beginning in some outlying countryside and ending up at a capitol city gate. its a fun game. some guy above said how he played wow 1-70 twice and raided and hated it lol, whyd you play so long? anyway blizz can look at all the games and say we will do this better then throw a billion dollars at it.
because there isnt, everything in wow is item reward driven, something that means: the sec they done and got the reward, they are done..
There is simply nothing worth fighting for in wow, not even halaa whas worth fighting for, because it whas just about gear and absolutly nothing else.. and the rest of objectives did only give a pve buff, something that is absolutly un-intresting for a pvper.
and every time i tried to raid capital citys.. with a multi raid, eather 1 of 2 things happand..
1. People left the sec they died.
2. The wow server crashed..
so live with it, wow is a pve game, it can be as pvp wannabe as it will, but it can never live up to it.
how big is wintergrasp pvp zone in wow? is it as big as a zone say, marshes of madness in war? if it is then i think blizzard has the better game. they just need another pvp zone or two. i never understood why people say theres no open pvp in wow. i instigated many fights beginning in some outlying countryside and ending up at a capitol city gate. its a fun game. some guy above said how he played wow 1-70 twice and raided and hated it lol, whyd you play so long? anyway blizz can look at all the games and say we will do this better then throw a billion dollars at it.
because there isnt, everything in wow is item reward driven, something that means: the sec they done and got the reward, they are done..
There is simply nothing worth fighting for in wow, not even halaa whas worth fighting for, because it whas just about gear and absolutly nothing else.. and the rest of objectives did only give a pve buff, something that is absolutly un-intresting for a pvper.
and every time i tried to raid capital citys.. with a multi raid, eather 1 of 2 things happand..
1. People left the sec they died.
2. The wow server crashed..
so live with it, wow is a pve game, it can be as pvp wannabe as it will, but it can never live up to it.
The irony in this is that Warhammer 'assumed' players would care more about their realm then they care about themselves. This simply was a huge mistake. When capital cities in War are being seiged, the 'defenders' are queueing for scenarios because they will get more personal exp and renown. While your 'theory' of warhammer sounds great, players are just proving it wrong.
Blizzard at least understands players.. they know they have to have personal progression as part of the reward or players will not participate. Warhammer has not learned that lesson, and is still assuming players will give up better personal rewards (scenarios) in order to RvR.
" the second they are done and have the reward they leave"... yeah, and that is why Blizzard adds more rewards every 6 months. Blizzard learned their lessons.. as you mention Hajaa never got rewards added after the first set. Lake Wintergrasp is a huge zone and Blizzard is going to keep adding more and more rewards as time goes on.
You can poke lots of sticks at WOW, and they have made plenty of mistakes.. but there isn't a single thing in Warhammer right now that is done as well as WOW. A lot of the 'theory' of it seems better, but the players are speaking with their wallets and leaving.
how big is wintergrasp pvp zone in wow? is it as big as a zone say, marshes of madness in war? if it is then i think blizzard has the better game. they just need another pvp zone or two. i never understood why people say theres no open pvp in wow. i instigated many fights beginning in some outlying countryside and ending up at a capitol city gate. its a fun game. some guy above said how he played wow 1-70 twice and raided and hated it lol, whyd you play so long? anyway blizz can look at all the games and say we will do this better then throw a billion dollars at it.
because there isnt, everything in wow is item reward driven, something that means: the sec they done and got the reward, they are done..
There is simply nothing worth fighting for in wow, not even halaa whas worth fighting for, because it whas just about gear and absolutly nothing else.. and the rest of objectives did only give a pve buff, something that is absolutly un-intresting for a pvper.
and every time i tried to raid capital citys.. with a multi raid, eather 1 of 2 things happand..
1. People left the sec they died.
2. The wow server crashed..
so live with it, wow is a pve game, it can be as pvp wannabe as it will, but it can never live up to it.
And what is it you are fighting for in War? A Keep that keeps getting reset?
The guy above was talking of WotLK with the new achievement system and the NEW very concentrated zone of world PvP. Special designed for those wanting more than the 5 BG's and 6 arena's.
People fight to better their gear, why do you fight in War? For RvR? and the fatherland? I think 95% are only interested in getting to 40/80 and ... gear.
BTW: PvP is far smoother and more responsive in Wow. So the only thing Blizz needs to do is motivate players in giving new achievements and rewards and they just did that and we already see the results these last 4 days..
Defended SW these last 4 days more than in the 6 months past, and WotLK isn't even out yet.
because there isnt, everything in wow is item reward driven, something that means: the sec they done and got the reward, they are done..
The irony in this is that Warhammer 'assumed' players would care more about their realm then they care about themselves. This simply was a huge mistake.
Blizzard at least understands players.. they know they have to have personal progression as part of the reward or players will not participate.
"everything in wow is item reward driven"- and that is why wow has such huge success. life is also reward driven. lets be honest, very few play warcraft with the purpose of killing ragnaros,or gorefiend or whatever. or to rid the land of the bad, hell,. "i'm the bad, and you'll understand that when i pwn you with my epic gear........rest is just landscape... screw them "- not saying i think this, rather just what is in the subconsient of players.
lets be honest, how many wow players would have grinded to rank 14 for the pvp or title if it wasnt the rewards... I know one.. me that grinded it for the title since already had better gear.... when it comes to the populus, if you dont have the carrot, the horse will not walk,
Azrile rises some good points. hell i like war a lot, but if any one tells me "hey they are raiding your capital city", my answer will be "good for them". NOw if by raiding my capital they actually were able to steal the gold i have on the bank, to burn my house and destroy whatever was inside, permanently or for considerable time cripple my character in some way. then i would care.
Sadly WAr is not shadowbane, where a scenario like that was game over, or for example a dynaverse Starfleet game. in those kind of games , everyone would stop and go massive defense, because a defeat of that kind= you are really screwed.
how big is wintergrasp pvp zone in wow? is it as big as a zone say, marshes of madness in war? if it is then i think blizzard has the better game. they just need another pvp zone or two. i never understood why people say theres no open pvp in wow. i instigated many fights beginning in some outlying countryside and ending up at a capitol city gate. its a fun game. some guy above said how he played wow 1-70 twice and raided and hated it lol, whyd you play so long? anyway blizz can look at all the games and say we will do this better then throw a billion dollars at it.
because there isnt, everything in wow is item reward driven, something that means: the sec they done and got the reward, they are done..
There is simply nothing worth fighting for in wow, not even halaa whas worth fighting for, because it whas just about gear and absolutly nothing else.. and the rest of objectives did only give a pve buff, something that is absolutly un-intresting for a pvper.
and every time i tried to raid capital citys.. with a multi raid, eather 1 of 2 things happand..
1. People left the sec they died.
2. The wow server crashed..
so live with it, wow is a pve game, it can be as pvp wannabe as it will, but it can never live up to it.
The irony in this is that Warhammer 'assumed' players would care more about their realm then they care about themselves. This simply was a huge mistake. When capital cities in War are being seiged, the 'defenders' are queueing for scenarios because they will get more personal exp and renown. While your 'theory' of warhammer sounds great, players are just proving it wrong.
Blizzard at least understands players.. they know they have to have personal progression as part of the reward or players will not participate. Warhammer has not learned that lesson, and is still assuming players will give up better personal rewards (scenarios) in order to RvR.
" the second they are done and have the reward they leave"... yeah, and that is why Blizzard adds more rewards every 6 months. Blizzard learned their lessons.. as you mention Hajaa never got rewards added after the first set. Lake Wintergrasp is a huge zone and Blizzard is going to keep adding more and more rewards as time goes on.
You can poke lots of sticks at WOW, and they have made plenty of mistakes.. but there isn't a single thing in Warhammer right now that is done as well as WOW. A lot of the 'theory' of it seems better, but the players are speaking with their wallets and leaving.
The irony is how wrong you can be and how you underestimate the human spirit.
Overpopulated destruction attacked our fortress today on an underpopulated server in the wee hours of the morning for our server time. They were hungry for blood as they felt victory looming due to their overwhelming numbers. Taking the fortress would open up our high ranked city Aldorf to attack and they would be able to sack our city and tear down our hard work to level our living city.
The few Order rallied together from everywhere as tells were sent down the alliance chain and through messaging all the high level online and we formed a warband to combat this onslaught
People dropped whatever they were doing be it leveling, scenarios, exploring or crafting (at that time I was farming at PQ with 3 buddies all level 36) and flocked to defend the fortress. Within 15 minutes we had a small force that continued to build and some brought hot oil and defensive equipment to ward off the attackers. Many were felled as the swarms of destruction started cutting off the routes of our reinforcments from the warcamp to the fortress.
They relentless pounded on the gates with the huge rams and weapons and their massive force was not deterred by the hot oil, arrows and fire we rained oh them. They were like a sea of ants, swarming below the massive walls of the fortress. Siege weapons blazed from both sides as hellfire canons rained death on us.
They finally broke though the outer fortress gates and we ran to defend the inner fortress.
Once again they tenaciously pounded on the doors, and after a long fight, they broke through. We rallied to the fortress lord and discussed over vent about the best strategy to stop them. We finally arrived at using AOE reigned down from the top with our tanks using collision detection to block the stairwell and stem the tides of destruction. Our positioning was immaculate as our tanks formed a wall of steel which would stop the tsunami which we were about to experience.
As they swarmed in our healers were hard pressed to keep people alive as our front line was battered and AOE was thrown around by casters as tanks tried to hold the line. I could almost smell the fire and brimstone as the archers, sorcerers, bright wizards, magi and engineers fought to better the other army. Bright wizards rained fire endlessly from our side as sorcerers opened up pits of darkness opened up to engulf. Engineeers built up turrets with a machinegun 'ratatatata' going while magi summoned all conceivable forms of pets.
We finally pushed them back with the help of massive AOE and fantastic healing and chased them up the hills as their reinforcements trickled in and died.
As the last attacker fell, a warband member shouted "For Order!"
Order had won the day and reaped the rewards of saving out city from direct assault.
Thanks to the members of Order on my server who answered the call from all reaches of the continent to arrive and defend the fortress. I'm sure some people won't understand the concept but for others, valiantly defending the fortress is enormous fun and gave a huge sense of accomplishment. I look forward to the next assault as the keep warfare and skirmishes continue throughout the day. At least for now, our city is safe.
The irony is how wrong you can be and how you underestimate the human spirit.
Don't know about him. I certainly don't. I'm in politics, in a way a career politician. I have thrown carrots to people all the time when I need their votes, and with a big enough carrot they forget everything wrong or unethical we- politicians have done for 3.5 years and ask for more.
And the funny thing is "we" known exactly what we need to do to solve permanently many problems. in fact even yesterday we were talking "off record" with some guys from the other political "colours" about what to do so the economical crisis wouldnt hit us hard. We all agree on what needs to be done in general. yet We just dont do it because if we did, we would probably end up with a bullet in our head or running from angry mobs with torches. Instead we throw some carrots and band aids and we get votes.
Don't know about him. I certainly don't. I'm in politics, in a way a career politician. I have thrown carrots to people all the time when I need their votes, and with a big enough carrot they forget everything wrong or unethical we- politicians have done for 3.5 years and ask for more. And the funny thing is "we" known exactly what we need to do to solve permanently many problems. in fact even yesterday we were talking "off record" with some guys from the other political "colours" about what to do so the economical crisis wouldnt hit us hard. We all agree on what needs to be done in general. yet We just dont do it because if we did, we would probably end up with a bullet in our head or running from angry mobs with torches. Instead we throw some carrots and band aids and we get votes. thats the human spirit. Looking at your typing ability, I pity the people within your district. I also am sad for the fact that if you are a politician, you're so corrupt. Get some morals, and actually do what is right for the country because the general populace sure can't.
Switching out of motivation-mode...I don't quite understand the type of politician who would come to an MMORPG forum, just to comment on a game. I call shenanigans!
On the subject at hand, from what I've read from the previous posters, excluding the dick above me; WAR sounds like a meaningless attempt at PvP. I've played WoW, it wasn't something I'd call fun. Comparing the two though, WAR's attempting to dumb down a mature idea, making it suitable for a childish consumer who subscribes to games like WoW. It's an attempt to mainstream an awesome idea, fighting for the common good. Personally, from what I've read, WAR needs to take more risks, else they'll lose the small market they've stolen from WoW; likely their game as well.
In all honesty, screw both of the games; neither includes fun, for the sake of fun.
------------------------------- It's honestly like everyone logs onto WoW, and games like WoW, just to masturbate. Everyone plays by themselves, and when they don't, they get what they want and get off. ------------------------------- Originally posted by atziluth... Ah yes when the unreasonable are faced with reason they must resort to personal attacks...When you are ready to move up from the kids table you can talk with the grown ups.
The irony is how wrong you can be and how you underestimate the human spirit.
Don't know about him. I certainly don't. I'm in politics, in a way a career politician. I have thrown carrots to people all the time when I need their votes, and with a big enough carrot they forget everything wrong or unethical we- politicians have done for 3.5 years and ask for more.
And the funny thing is "we" known exactly what we need to do to solve permanently many problems. in fact even yesterday we were talking "off record" with some guys from the other political "colours" about what to do so the economical crisis wouldnt hit us hard. We all agree on what needs to be done in general. yet We just dont do it because if we did, we would probably end up with a bullet in our head or running from angry mobs with torches. Instead we throw some carrots and band aids and we get votes.
thats the human spirit.
You claim that if you give someone a big enough 'carrot' they will forget everything wrong and unethical. Well that's erroneous in many situations. If you ask someone to kill an innocent person in cold blood or sacrifice another's life for all the payment in the world, some will not do it.
I study in a hospital. I see the human spirit at work daily. Whether it be a doctor trying valiantly to save a life or a nurse caring unendingly for a dying patient. They stay overtime, giving their all to look after patients and make them as comfortable as possible, even using their off days sometimes to come look in on them or cheer them up. I see relatives tirelessly waiting with sick patients 24/7, comforting them in whatever way possible and praying for them.
Now that's the human spirit.
Perhaps you are just looking for it in the wrong place.
Your instances paint perfect pictures of where the human spirit is lacking.
how is there rvr in WoW? ...its Mythics gig having rvr....WoW has battlegrounds.
As for player vs. player, me being a 2 year WoW vet, and now my family playing Warhammer, pvp in WoW is really meaningless untill you hit level cap, unless you have a twink...which is still really pointless.
RvR (pvp) is meaninfull in Warhammer beacuase you can simply level in regular levels and in the rennown (honor to WoW) system without ever killing a dumb computer scripted mob.
not british,or english. In fact english is not my first , second or third language, If I had to rank my linguistic skills it would be , french, german and english in a distant third.
as for why a politician ends up here, well, it is rather simple. I am 34 years. Started playing computer games with a spectrum, and actually like them. I guess I could take some brides and get 2 or 3 apartments and be with some nice looking, hot escort girl, like many of my coworkers. But I am not.
In relation to my comments about human spirit, they are the way I see it. To a point don't know why is it a surprise. Even when I was a simple history student, had this really bad impression of politicians. When , by chance or fortune or bad luck, I become one, my impression did not change, only got worse. Yet, I did understand something that had truely escaped me: the average citizen is selfish, uninterested, concerned with little things, particularly his wallet, and most of the times, by his own decision, blind.
Given my choice of work, I actually like a place like this, a forum. It is rather interesting to see a large number of people, that, well many at least, want the same thing, in this case for a certain game to grow, but most of the times can't get to any kind of consensus and , in the end, just stick to whatever premisses they started with, not caring about even the guy next door.
let me give me some example:
a)"scenarios are ripping this game apart", "they should take out scenarios and make this pure RvR". In many aspects it is a legit position. Or it is not? what about the ones that don't have that much time and are dependent of the fact scenarios are there? Can be the father of three, that gets home after 10 hours working, kisses his kids, has dinner with the family, helps the wife washing the dishes, and finally in that little half an hour he has to play, queues for some scenario to make some random xp amount. this "dad" likes the game as much as any other player, but simply has some life that does not allow him to be available to "open RvR", since, what many disconsider, any decent RvR takes time.
At least in the scenario he can see the start, middle and end of the battle. In open RvR he will probably rarely see the start or end. But guess what "I" want open RVR, "I" think scenarios are killing it, because they are a threat to what "i" want, instead of trying some consensus solution that allows me to get more or less what I want and at same time what the guy next door needs, "I" preffer the disruptble solution that assures me , on the spot, what "I" want.
so, what kind of human spirit are we talking about? the one capable of the most unselfish action, like putting his life at risk to save a child in some building in flames, or the one that closes the eye to a mother slapping his child in a public restaurant because the kid did not want to eat the soup?
I actually believe in humans. In the great things they can excel . In the small ones, humans are twisted.
Blizzard is a sad panda because their 30% PvP customers (70% PvE) have already switched to WAR for the real RvR and they can only keep a few raiders who wants to kill each other once in a while.
----------------------------- Osbourne Cox: You are the guy from the gym.
Ted Treffon: I don't represent Hardbodies.
Osbourne Cox: I know very well what you represent. You represent the idiocy of today.
Ted Treffon: No, I don't represent that either.
Osbourne Cox: You are part of a league of morons. Oh, yes. You see you're one of the morons I've been fighting my whole life. But guess what. Today, I win.
This is sadly ironic and should be evidence to Mythic that RvR rewards will drive RvR! Blizz recently released Patch 3.02 and in said patch there is an achievements tab (their version of the ToK). If you kill the leaders of the major cities you get a special bear mount. There have been constant raids all weekend on all of the major cities... all for a stupid mount! There is more RvR right now in WoW than in WAR! It makes me sad, because as many have written, this game was marketed ias an RvR game. How is it that this lame PvE (wanna be PvP) game I played for the last 2.5 years can pull this off, but the RvR game we all waited for cannot? Hmm Mr. Jacobs??? Hmm???
If u read the new WOTLK notes they basically in one way or another state that everything in War that people left for, there putting in WoW, PvP loot drops, PvP XP, more mass RvR, so um ya, after 2 months of War, i don't see what all the hype was about, though i suppose at least this got the crap we wanted into WoW, so um kudos.
Comments
WotLK changed it already in it's pre launch patch.
Not a night goes by without a City raid or 4, 5 on SW on Al'Akir. And SW is but one of the many capitols to raid.
I think your missing the point, your promoting WoW in the WAR forum. You are giving advertising to a company that couldn't care less if you were dead or alive (So long as you pay their monthly fee).
PvE is for people who have no skill. Sorry scripts arnt a challenge. And im damn good in FPS, always top the charts. And PvP takes more brains than FPS, in FPS its all about the eye hand coordination and how quick u can react. They play two different ways.
your so modest omg , so you think your good so does alot of poeples btw people dont play pve because they think they have skill but mainly because it's fun and they like to achieve that kind of goal within a game , i recommend just a little respect for other people choice and what they like .
Nay ill pass.
WotLK changed it already in it's pre launch patch.
Not a night goes by without a City raid or 4, 5 on SW on Al'Akir. And SW is but one of the many capitols to raid.
I think your missing the point, your promoting WoW in the WAR forum. You are giving advertising to a company that couldn't care less if you were dead or alive (So long as you pay their monthly fee).
I played WoW 1-70 twice, hated it, played end game, hated it, pvp'd, hated it. It was complete garbage, I only played it because of friends and family, who now have either quit or moved on to WAR.
It wasn't complex, it didn't make you think, its the Counterstrike of the MMO genre, but atleast counterstrike players need to be able to aim.
If god wanted us to aim in CS he wouldnt have made aim bots and AWPs.
PvE is for people who have no skill. Sorry scripts arnt a challenge. And im damn good in FPS, always top the charts. And PvP takes more brains than FPS, in FPS its all about the eye hand coordination and how quick u can react. They play two different ways.
I like pvp but its the path of least resistance. Pvp satisfies those moments when you don't want to think too hard. Theres a player....I'll use something on him hoping it will do alot of damage....oh it doesn't....I'll try this then....that didn't help much.....wait this will hurt him I know.....k, I'm almost dead now.....I'll keep hitting him anyway. No skill there. Sometimes you're LUCKY and kill your victim. Unless you're many levels above the player you're attacking thats how most pvp battles occur and if the player is many levels below you where is the challenge in that?
Skill might work if you knew all the attacks / spells your opponent has to use. Even if you did there are variables that can quickly turn the battle into your favor or your victims favor. As examples, the morale abilities in war, buffs and potions found in all mmorpgs.
Skill might also work if you were paired against a similar class (again you'll need to know everything your opponent could use against you) but how often do order and destruction pair up before a battle? I haven't seen that yet. Its all run around and hit anything that moves like, imo, every mmorpg pvp game.
The perceived idea of using skill in pvp comes from not knowing what the other player will do and the reaction you use to counter the player. Its luck of the draw....no real skill.
The problem with WOW and the killing of the city leaders is, it is not a siege (RVR). All you need to do is get 3 people in one of the vacant areas of the city and "port" your army in. This has been done so many times in the past from the basement of the cathedral and vacant areas of the dwarven district and other areas. Same with Ogrimmar. Virtually impossible to defend from.
Nice idea but lacks substance. Kind of cheap really.
And as mentioned earlier, these tactics in the past would crash the servers, and that is why Blizz went to the instanced BG's and put a penalty on world PVP. So it will be interesting to see if this remains in the game.
WoW players will soon migrate back once the new expansion is released.
The Old Timers Guild
Laid back, not so serious, no drama.
All about the fun!
www.oldtimersguild.com
An opinion should be the result of thought, not a substitute for it. - Jef Mallett
for one there isnt alot of max lvl ppl yet... and wow has been out for 5 or 6 years so there are tons of higher lvl ppl to do the raids war has just started wow didnt have anything close to wars rvr when it first released
how big is wintergrasp pvp zone in wow? is it as big as a zone say, marshes of madness in war? if it is then i think blizzard has the better game. they just need another pvp zone or two. i never understood why people say theres no open pvp in wow. i instigated many fights beginning in some outlying countryside and ending up at a capitol city gate. its a fun game. some guy above said how he played wow 1-70 twice and raided and hated it lol, whyd you play so long? anyway blizz can look at all the games and say we will do this better then throw a billion dollars at it.
Frankly I would like to see the scenarios play out more like the battlegrounds from DAoC. They offered more substance, opposed to the flash in the pan RvR action scenarios give right now. The way scenarios are structured rewards the solo AoE spammer. When I jump on my BW, I will typically be taking the top XP prize by pumping out DoTs and AE, regardless if my side wins.
The way the Battlegrounds were played pratically forced group play to take the respective keep. The reason why battlegrounds, and in war the rvr lakes seemed like a great idea is that people were funneled into the locations for some good fights.
Scenarios as they stand right now give the largest XP/hour than any other form of the game. This really doesn't make much sense, considering the main aspect of the game are the keep & city sieges. They need to bring the scenarios in line with Public Quests. Either by extending the points needed to win, or lowering the win bonus. I'm not opposed to the XP per say, but the huge disparity in what scenarios offer compared to elsewhere is a problem.
I think that you can get a good keep/castle fight when you play primetime, but other than that you really would have to server bounce to find continuous action. I know they gave the lake RvR a 50% bonus, and it's great when you can get some zerg vs zerg action. Though the saving grace is really the same, during primetime you can grab some great large scale fights. Something that can't really be said for WoW. There really wasn't a period where you could find reliable world PvP. Besides sweeping through STV until people started logging into their mains. Although I wouldn't consider that exactly the same.
because there isnt, everything in wow is item reward driven, something that means: the sec they done and got the reward, they are done..
There is simply nothing worth fighting for in wow, not even halaa whas worth fighting for, because it whas just about gear and absolutly nothing else.. and the rest of objectives did only give a pve buff, something that is absolutly un-intresting for a pvper.
and every time i tried to raid capital citys.. with a multi raid, eather 1 of 2 things happand..
1. People left the sec they died.
2. The wow server crashed..
so live with it, wow is a pve game, it can be as pvp wannabe as it will, but it can never live up to it.
Want to play: Lego Universe
because there isnt, everything in wow is item reward driven, something that means: the sec they done and got the reward, they are done..
There is simply nothing worth fighting for in wow, not even halaa whas worth fighting for, because it whas just about gear and absolutly nothing else.. and the rest of objectives did only give a pve buff, something that is absolutly un-intresting for a pvper.
and every time i tried to raid capital citys.. with a multi raid, eather 1 of 2 things happand..
1. People left the sec they died.
2. The wow server crashed..
so live with it, wow is a pve game, it can be as pvp wannabe as it will, but it can never live up to it.
The irony in this is that Warhammer 'assumed' players would care more about their realm then they care about themselves. This simply was a huge mistake. When capital cities in War are being seiged, the 'defenders' are queueing for scenarios because they will get more personal exp and renown. While your 'theory' of warhammer sounds great, players are just proving it wrong.
Blizzard at least understands players.. they know they have to have personal progression as part of the reward or players will not participate. Warhammer has not learned that lesson, and is still assuming players will give up better personal rewards (scenarios) in order to RvR.
" the second they are done and have the reward they leave"... yeah, and that is why Blizzard adds more rewards every 6 months. Blizzard learned their lessons.. as you mention Hajaa never got rewards added after the first set. Lake Wintergrasp is a huge zone and Blizzard is going to keep adding more and more rewards as time goes on.
You can poke lots of sticks at WOW, and they have made plenty of mistakes.. but there isn't a single thing in Warhammer right now that is done as well as WOW. A lot of the 'theory' of it seems better, but the players are speaking with their wallets and leaving.
because there isnt, everything in wow is item reward driven, something that means: the sec they done and got the reward, they are done..
There is simply nothing worth fighting for in wow, not even halaa whas worth fighting for, because it whas just about gear and absolutly nothing else.. and the rest of objectives did only give a pve buff, something that is absolutly un-intresting for a pvper.
and every time i tried to raid capital citys.. with a multi raid, eather 1 of 2 things happand..
1. People left the sec they died.
2. The wow server crashed..
so live with it, wow is a pve game, it can be as pvp wannabe as it will, but it can never live up to it.
And what is it you are fighting for in War? A Keep that keeps getting reset?
The guy above was talking of WotLK with the new achievement system and the NEW very concentrated zone of world PvP. Special designed for those wanting more than the 5 BG's and 6 arena's.
People fight to better their gear, why do you fight in War? For RvR? and the fatherland? I think 95% are only interested in getting to 40/80 and ... gear.
BTW: PvP is far smoother and more responsive in Wow. So the only thing Blizz needs to do is motivate players in giving new achievements and rewards and they just did that and we already see the results these last 4 days..
Defended SW these last 4 days more than in the 6 months past, and WotLK isn't even out yet.
The irony in this is that Warhammer 'assumed' players would care more about their realm then they care about themselves. This simply was a huge mistake.
Blizzard at least understands players.. they know they have to have personal progression as part of the reward or players will not participate.
"everything in wow is item reward driven"- and that is why wow has such huge success. life is also reward driven. lets be honest, very few play warcraft with the purpose of killing ragnaros,or gorefiend or whatever. or to rid the land of the bad, hell,. "i'm the bad, and you'll understand that when i pwn you with my epic gear........rest is just landscape... screw them "- not saying i think this, rather just what is in the subconsient of players.
lets be honest, how many wow players would have grinded to rank 14 for the pvp or title if it wasnt the rewards... I know one.. me that grinded it for the title since already had better gear.... when it comes to the populus, if you dont have the carrot, the horse will not walk,
Azrile rises some good points. hell i like war a lot, but if any one tells me "hey they are raiding your capital city", my answer will be "good for them". NOw if by raiding my capital they actually were able to steal the gold i have on the bank, to burn my house and destroy whatever was inside, permanently or for considerable time cripple my character in some way. then i would care.
Sadly WAr is not shadowbane, where a scenario like that was game over, or for example a dynaverse Starfleet game. in those kind of games , everyone would stop and go massive defense, because a defeat of that kind= you are really screwed.
because there isnt, everything in wow is item reward driven, something that means: the sec they done and got the reward, they are done..
There is simply nothing worth fighting for in wow, not even halaa whas worth fighting for, because it whas just about gear and absolutly nothing else.. and the rest of objectives did only give a pve buff, something that is absolutly un-intresting for a pvper.
and every time i tried to raid capital citys.. with a multi raid, eather 1 of 2 things happand..
1. People left the sec they died.
2. The wow server crashed..
so live with it, wow is a pve game, it can be as pvp wannabe as it will, but it can never live up to it.
The irony in this is that Warhammer 'assumed' players would care more about their realm then they care about themselves. This simply was a huge mistake. When capital cities in War are being seiged, the 'defenders' are queueing for scenarios because they will get more personal exp and renown. While your 'theory' of warhammer sounds great, players are just proving it wrong.
Blizzard at least understands players.. they know they have to have personal progression as part of the reward or players will not participate. Warhammer has not learned that lesson, and is still assuming players will give up better personal rewards (scenarios) in order to RvR.
" the second they are done and have the reward they leave"... yeah, and that is why Blizzard adds more rewards every 6 months. Blizzard learned their lessons.. as you mention Hajaa never got rewards added after the first set. Lake Wintergrasp is a huge zone and Blizzard is going to keep adding more and more rewards as time goes on.
You can poke lots of sticks at WOW, and they have made plenty of mistakes.. but there isn't a single thing in Warhammer right now that is done as well as WOW. A lot of the 'theory' of it seems better, but the players are speaking with their wallets and leaving.
The irony is how wrong you can be and how you underestimate the human spirit.
Overpopulated destruction attacked our fortress today on an underpopulated server in the wee hours of the morning for our server time. They were hungry for blood as they felt victory looming due to their overwhelming numbers. Taking the fortress would open up our high ranked city Aldorf to attack and they would be able to sack our city and tear down our hard work to level our living city.
The few Order rallied together from everywhere as tells were sent down the alliance chain and through messaging all the high level online and we formed a warband to combat this onslaught
People dropped whatever they were doing be it leveling, scenarios, exploring or crafting (at that time I was farming at PQ with 3 buddies all level 36) and flocked to defend the fortress. Within 15 minutes we had a small force that continued to build and some brought hot oil and defensive equipment to ward off the attackers. Many were felled as the swarms of destruction started cutting off the routes of our reinforcments from the warcamp to the fortress.
They relentless pounded on the gates with the huge rams and weapons and their massive force was not deterred by the hot oil, arrows and fire we rained oh them. They were like a sea of ants, swarming below the massive walls of the fortress. Siege weapons blazed from both sides as hellfire canons rained death on us.
They finally broke though the outer fortress gates and we ran to defend the inner fortress.
Once again they tenaciously pounded on the doors, and after a long fight, they broke through. We rallied to the fortress lord and discussed over vent about the best strategy to stop them. We finally arrived at using AOE reigned down from the top with our tanks using collision detection to block the stairwell and stem the tides of destruction. Our positioning was immaculate as our tanks formed a wall of steel which would stop the tsunami which we were about to experience.
As they swarmed in our healers were hard pressed to keep people alive as our front line was battered and AOE was thrown around by casters as tanks tried to hold the line. I could almost smell the fire and brimstone as the archers, sorcerers, bright wizards, magi and engineers fought to better the other army. Bright wizards rained fire endlessly from our side as sorcerers opened up pits of darkness opened up to engulf. Engineeers built up turrets with a machinegun 'ratatatata' going while magi summoned all conceivable forms of pets.
We finally pushed them back with the help of massive AOE and fantastic healing and chased them up the hills as their reinforcements trickled in and died.
As the last attacker fell, a warband member shouted "For Order!"
Order had won the day and reaped the rewards of saving out city from direct assault.
Thanks to the members of Order on my server who answered the call from all reaches of the continent to arrive and defend the fortress. I'm sure some people won't understand the concept but for others, valiantly defending the fortress is enormous fun and gave a huge sense of accomplishment. I look forward to the next assault as the keep warfare and skirmishes continue throughout the day. At least for now, our city is safe.
Hope the helped.
Cheers.
Don't know about him. I certainly don't. I'm in politics, in a way a career politician. I have thrown carrots to people all the time when I need their votes, and with a big enough carrot they forget everything wrong or unethical we- politicians have done for 3.5 years and ask for more.
And the funny thing is "we" known exactly what we need to do to solve permanently many problems. in fact even yesterday we were talking "off record" with some guys from the other political "colours" about what to do so the economical crisis wouldnt hit us hard. We all agree on what needs to be done in general. yet We just dont do it because if we did, we would probably end up with a bullet in our head or running from angry mobs with torches. Instead we throw some carrots and band aids and we get votes.
thats the human spirit.
Switching out of motivation-mode...I don't quite understand the type of politician who would come to an MMORPG forum, just to comment on a game. I call shenanigans!
On the subject at hand, from what I've read from the previous posters, excluding the dick above me; WAR sounds like a meaningless attempt at PvP. I've played WoW, it wasn't something I'd call fun. Comparing the two though, WAR's attempting to dumb down a mature idea, making it suitable for a childish consumer who subscribes to games like WoW. It's an attempt to mainstream an awesome idea, fighting for the common good. Personally, from what I've read, WAR needs to take more risks, else they'll lose the small market they've stolen from WoW; likely their game as well.
In all honesty, screw both of the games; neither includes fun, for the sake of fun.
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It's honestly like everyone logs onto WoW, and games like WoW, just to masturbate. Everyone plays by themselves, and when they don't, they get what they want and get off.
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Originally posted by atziluth...
Ah yes when the unreasonable are faced with reason they must resort to personal attacks...When you are ready to move up from the kids table you can talk with the grown ups.
Don't know about him. I certainly don't. I'm in politics, in a way a career politician. I have thrown carrots to people all the time when I need their votes, and with a big enough carrot they forget everything wrong or unethical we- politicians have done for 3.5 years and ask for more.
And the funny thing is "we" known exactly what we need to do to solve permanently many problems. in fact even yesterday we were talking "off record" with some guys from the other political "colours" about what to do so the economical crisis wouldnt hit us hard. We all agree on what needs to be done in general. yet We just dont do it because if we did, we would probably end up with a bullet in our head or running from angry mobs with torches. Instead we throw some carrots and band aids and we get votes.
thats the human spirit.
You claim that if you give someone a big enough 'carrot' they will forget everything wrong and unethical. Well that's erroneous in many situations. If you ask someone to kill an innocent person in cold blood or sacrifice another's life for all the payment in the world, some will not do it.
I study in a hospital. I see the human spirit at work daily. Whether it be a doctor trying valiantly to save a life or a nurse caring unendingly for a dying patient. They stay overtime, giving their all to look after patients and make them as comfortable as possible, even using their off days sometimes to come look in on them or cheer them up. I see relatives tirelessly waiting with sick patients 24/7, comforting them in whatever way possible and praying for them.
Now that's the human spirit.
Perhaps you are just looking for it in the wrong place.
Your instances paint perfect pictures of where the human spirit is lacking.
how is there rvr in WoW? ...its Mythics gig having rvr....WoW has battlegrounds.
As for player vs. player, me being a 2 year WoW vet, and now my family playing Warhammer, pvp in WoW is really meaningless untill you hit level cap, unless you have a twink...which is still really pointless.
RvR (pvp) is meaninfull in Warhammer beacuase you can simply level in regular levels and in the rennown (honor to WoW) system without ever killing a dumb computer scripted mob.
to answer point by point:
not british,or english. In fact english is not my first , second or third language, If I had to rank my linguistic skills it would be , french, german and english in a distant third.
as for why a politician ends up here, well, it is rather simple. I am 34 years. Started playing computer games with a spectrum, and actually like them. I guess I could take some brides and get 2 or 3 apartments and be with some nice looking, hot escort girl, like many of my coworkers. But I am not.
In relation to my comments about human spirit, they are the way I see it. To a point don't know why is it a surprise. Even when I was a simple history student, had this really bad impression of politicians. When , by chance or fortune or bad luck, I become one, my impression did not change, only got worse. Yet, I did understand something that had truely escaped me: the average citizen is selfish, uninterested, concerned with little things, particularly his wallet, and most of the times, by his own decision, blind.
Given my choice of work, I actually like a place like this, a forum. It is rather interesting to see a large number of people, that, well many at least, want the same thing, in this case for a certain game to grow, but most of the times can't get to any kind of consensus and , in the end, just stick to whatever premisses they started with, not caring about even the guy next door.
let me give me some example:
a)"scenarios are ripping this game apart", "they should take out scenarios and make this pure RvR". In many aspects it is a legit position. Or it is not? what about the ones that don't have that much time and are dependent of the fact scenarios are there? Can be the father of three, that gets home after 10 hours working, kisses his kids, has dinner with the family, helps the wife washing the dishes, and finally in that little half an hour he has to play, queues for some scenario to make some random xp amount. this "dad" likes the game as much as any other player, but simply has some life that does not allow him to be available to "open RvR", since, what many disconsider, any decent RvR takes time.
At least in the scenario he can see the start, middle and end of the battle. In open RvR he will probably rarely see the start or end. But guess what "I" want open RVR, "I" think scenarios are killing it, because they are a threat to what "i" want, instead of trying some consensus solution that allows me to get more or less what I want and at same time what the guy next door needs, "I" preffer the disruptble solution that assures me , on the spot, what "I" want.
so, what kind of human spirit are we talking about? the one capable of the most unselfish action, like putting his life at risk to save a child in some building in flames, or the one that closes the eye to a mother slapping his child in a public restaurant because the kid did not want to eat the soup?
I actually believe in humans. In the great things they can excel . In the small ones, humans are twisted.
LOL @ WoW RvR.
Blizzard is a sad panda because their 30% PvP customers (70% PvE) have already switched to WAR for the real RvR and they can only keep a few raiders who wants to kill each other once in a while.
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Osbourne Cox: You are the guy from the gym.
Ted Treffon: I don't represent Hardbodies.
Osbourne Cox: I know very well what you represent. You represent the idiocy of today.
Ted Treffon: No, I don't represent that either.
Osbourne Cox: You are part of a league of morons. Oh, yes. You see you're one of the morons I've been fighting my whole life. But guess what. Today, I win.
If u read the new WOTLK notes they basically in one way or another state that everything in War that people left for, there putting in WoW, PvP loot drops, PvP XP, more mass RvR, so um ya, after 2 months of War, i don't see what all the hype was about, though i suppose at least this got the crap we wanted into WoW, so um kudos.