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Countdown to the 21st

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  • pdxgeekpdxgeek Member Posts: 585
    Originally posted by ronan32

    but soe is releasing the new hoth expansion for swg, so i doubt it means the end of  star wars galaxies.

    It's not an expansion. It's just another cookie-cutter instance like all the others.

    SWG will never see another expansion.

  • KazaraKazara Member UncommonPosts: 1,085
    Originally posted by ronan32

    Originally posted by admriker4


    October 21st is a day Im greatly looking forward too.
    And in case you missed it, Bioware, EA, and LucasArts are jointly making the announcement we've all been waiting for....what the heck theyve been developing since December 2005.
    http://www.joystiq.com/2008/10/07/lucasarts-bioware-unveiling-new-game-oct-21/
    Of course we already know its a Star Wars themed MMO based on EA leaking the news....
    http://www.massively.com/2008/07/17/kotor-mmo-confirmed-by-electronic-arts/
    And of course there were rumors, mostly from inside sources such as mine that already knew a star wars themed MMO was in the works. My dumpster diving proved definitely that something with a star wars theme was in the works despite all the denials.
    http://www.rlmmo.com/viewtopic.php?t=5582
    So what does this new Star Wars MMO mean for Galaxies ? My opinion, it means the end of the line for the trainwreck that was Star Wars Galaxies.
    Clearly the NGE was an experiment. SOE stated as such when it announced DC MMO which would have a similiar game style that the NGE has. Im betting the NGE was a way to work out the kinks and issues for the DC MMO. Galaxies was failing anyway (thanks to a CU that the players did NOT want), why not take a radical shot to get new players and if that doesnt work at least they have a means to work on things to implement in other MMO's.
    There is proof this experiment was the case...many of the swg developers have moved on to work on the DC mmo project. Their NGE experience will prove to be invaluable. Why wouldnt SOE roll back to classic servers ? Simple, they were getting to beta test new code for another MMO.
    Reflecting on the NGE, it was a brilliant financial move by Smedley. He in essence got thousands of players to pay to beta test a new game. Current subscribers are likely paying for development and testing of the DC MMO. And we know from the past that SOE has no issues violating the cardinal rule of MMO's by using subscription fees to develop new games (nge).
    Course this makes Smedley's apology for the nge just another lie. He didnt learn any lessons honestly. This is just business as usual for SOE.
    Bioware and LA were ready and waiting to see the results of the NGE. And it only took LA 3-4 weeks to decide that Galaxies was done. The NGE went live in Nov 2005, the hiring of developers for the new Austin studio (Bioware) started in December. LA had seen enough.
    Obviously the new Star Wars MMO was born from the failure of Galaxies. So is there any chance that LA will allow Galaxies to exist once the new MMO launches ? I think not.
    LA has shown its intentions from Dec 2005 on about SWG's fate. There would be only one good reason to keep a new star wars MMO secret and that would be to save any revenue still being made by Galaxies. Sure some players will remain in SWG till the bitter end but there are many more who cling to the life raft of classic servers or another revamp. Such an announcement would mean all hope would be lost. This isnt some new tactic by SOE either.
    Lets not forget how SOE repeatedly told players about a new force ranking system or the capitol ships coming. Behind the scenes SOE knew these would never materialise as the NGE was in the works. SOE had no moral or ethical issue with lying to keep thousands of players subscribing.
    I look forward to the 21st not only to see some screenshots (hopefully) of the new Star Wars MMO but also because I believe it spells the end for Galaxies. Star Wars Galaxies ultimately was the greatest MMO Ive ever played but its mere existence now hurts the industry. SOE violated the cardinal rule of MMO's by taking subscription money and using it to make an entirely new game. It should shut down.
    Do we have any proof besides speculation at this point for a shutdown ? I believe we do. SOE doesnt give stuff away, yet in 2009 they will allow free character transfers. What would motivate them to allow this ? And why 2009 ?
    Anyway Im counting down the days

    but soeis releasing the new hoth expansion for swg, so i doubt it means the end of  star wars galaxies.



     

    Hoth is NOT an expansion....it is just another group intensive heroic instance. The end of SWG was November 2005. If you mean the plug being pulled, then I will agree in the sense that SWG will indefinitely lumber along on Station Pass Life Support as it has been doing - with ever dwindling active player numbers. The dead servers tells you the reality of SWG's status.

    If Bioware's new Star Wars mmo actually proves to be good - then I do not see how SWG will even warrant being Station Pass filler. A handful of remaining fanbois will not prevent $OE from pulling the plug.

     

    image

  • TillerTiller Member EpicPosts: 8,308
    Originally posted by precuorbust

    Originally posted by isaiahhhhh


    Nope, reconstituted feces already has more subscribers than NGE has right now.
     
    -Isaiah

     

    I'd pay for a MMORPG bathroom simulator before the NGE.

    I wouldn't even play it if it were free.  I've basically ignored most of the "puhLEEZE" come back trials I've been offered.

     

    The toilet has already been placed in the center of the living room by Blixtev, I doubt he took it when he left.



  • the_lizardthe_lizard Member Posts: 120
    Originally posted by precuorbust

    Originally posted by isaiahhhhh


    Nope, reconstituted feces already has more subscribers than NGE has right now.
     
    -Isaiah

     

    I'd pay for a MMORPG bathroom simulator before the NGE.

    I wouldn't even play it if it were free.  I've basically ignored most of the "puhLEEZE" come back trials I've been offered.

     

     

    here

  • the_lizardthe_lizard Member Posts: 120

    Seriously, i'm no fan of SWG anymore but what gives the impression that the game will be shut down when the new one comes out? It's totally not lucas' style to do that, how many times has he re-released the same freaking box set. he will milk sony for all he can until it's not financially feasable for them, not LA. i'm not defending SWG and hope that it would be shut down but i don't see it happening.

  • musicmannmusicmann Member UncommonPosts: 1,095


    Originally posted by Gutboy

    Yes I am sure when they did the initial design for the game they were shooting for the 300,000 subs that was the high water mark of subs in SWG. I am sure they think that style of game is exactly what they want.


     
    <Mod edit> 300k subs back in 2003 when SWG was released was considered a huge success. It wasn't until WOW came along that any and all MMO's being released after that game is still to this day deemed a failure for pulling that low of numbers.

  • Dark_FailDark_Fail Member Posts: 27
    Originally posted by musicmann

    Originally posted by Gutboy


    Yes I am sure when they did the initial design for the game they were shooting for the 300,000 subs that was the high water mark of subs in SWG. I am sure they think that style of game is exactly what they want.



     

    Your an idiot. 300k subs back in 2003 when SWG was released was considered a huge success. It wasn't until WOW came along that any and all MMO's being released after that game is still to this day deemed a failure for pulling that low of numbers.



     

    The Success of WoW will never be matched with this Generation of MMORPGs. It is going take a huge jump in Tech. A jump that will make MMOs more realistic. I think it could take as much as 10 years before we will ever see another MMO with 10 million subs.

    1 million should be considered a success...anything more is just a Lotto win...a crap shoot with spectacular results. 10 mil is in no way the "Norm" and should be looked at as unrealistic. I would compare it to the "DARK KNIGHT" film. Yes it was a great movie, but what happened was something no one predicted. It's rare that a film does this well. The last film was "TITANIC" and that happened almost 10 years ago.

    WoW numbers are going to be just as Rare IMO

  • isaiahhhhhisaiahhhhh Member Posts: 24

    In my opinion WoW shouldn't be used as a measuring stick for other MMO's, if people like it and enough people play it to keep it alive (not alive like SWG, but alive and fairly active) then a gam should be considered a success.

    image

  • TarkaTarka Member Posts: 1,662
    Originally posted by isaiahhhhh


    In my opinion WoW shouldn't be used as a measuring stick for other MMO's, if people like it and enough people play it to keep it alive (not alive like SWG, but alive and fairly active) then a gam should be considered a success.



     Agreed.

    Success is simply measured against the goals that the development company set out to achieve.  Both in design and finance.

    Like you say, if an MMO's subs can successfully and constantly sustain the game.  Then financially it's considered a success.  And if a game receives timely and consistent development updates that are welcomed by the community, then the playerbase may consider it to be a success.

    The point is, each game has it's own measure of success or failure.  A game doesn't need to hit 1 million subs and keep there in order for it to be considered a success.  It just needs to achieve and perhaps surpass the goals that were set out when the game was conceived.  Just look at EVE for an example.  200,000 subs isn't a great lot when compared to WoW, but it's still considered to be a success by both the company and its playerbase.

  • precuorbustprecuorbust Member Posts: 120

    Considering that virtually every single MMO released since 2005 has tried to a greater or lesser degree clone WOW and none of them have sustained a subscriber base of more than 200-300K (most far less) shouldn't it now be pretty much a given that no one is going to release a "Wow killer" any time soon?

    And they especially won't by cloning wow.  Everyone who wants to play a wow type MMO are going to play wow, period.

    I'm not saying that it's not possible to break through with a huge hit, but that something different from the "wow paradigm" is called for.  Perhaps something like Pre-CU.  Contrary to what is commonly assumed, Pre-CU was VERY casual gamer friendly.  You didn't even have to do combat to survive or compete.

    What was missing though was content.  And the bugs were glaring.  Today's NGE game however has little new content (sorry, foozle instances and scavenger hunts don't count for much) and it has possibly even MORE glaring bugs than pre CU.

     

  • TarkaTarka Member Posts: 1,662

    You don't have to divert completely from the EQ / WoW  formula for the next game to be considered a success.  Some have even tried.  And failed miserably.

    Just because Toyota use round wheels doesn't mean to say that Ford have to use square ones.  My point is that you don't have to re-invent the wheel, you can refine it.

    The world isn't crying for a completely different game that has NO comparison to WoW at all.  That's just a misconception created by anti-WoW campaigners. 

    What people look for is for a game to be polished, easy to get into, have plenty of content, and receive regular updates.  The background can change slightly to suit a different setting and scenario whilst keeping some of the "tried and tested" designs concepts in the game for it to be a success.

    You don't need to create a radical new style game for that.

    I agree about Pre-CU though.  Pre-CU's biggest issues where a lack of content and complete imbalance of certain class combos.

    By the way, you can bet your life that if ONE single aspect of the Bioware game has ANY resemblance to ANY thing in WoW AT ALL, then from that moment on it will be forever labelled as a "WoW clone".

  • musicmannmusicmann Member UncommonPosts: 1,095
    Originally posted by isaiahhhhh


    In my opinion WoW shouldn't be used as a measuring stick for other MMO's, if people like it and enough people play it to keep it alive (not alive like SWG, but alive and fairly active) then a gam should be considered a success.



     

    I think you are correct, but that's just not how things are seen thse days. look at almost every other thread on this site alone. For example, WAR players being very happy about the 750k subs the game has, and then the WOW fans or AOC fans or whatever other mmo fans come around and pushes xfire numbers or whatever to make them feel like that is just a miniscule number and all will be lost when the free month comes to an end.

    It's a vicious cycle, that never ends when comparing one mmo to another, especially if the other is WOW. In 2003 when SWG was released, if it would have had 750k subs in it's first month, would have been considered the pinnacle of mmorpg's at that time, not so much now though.

    The same will happen when this new SW mmo comes out. People will bash it, twist it and give all kinds of either positive or negative views on it. Even if it has the 750k to even a million subs in the first month, it still will be riduled by many in the eyes of how many subs WOW still has and still maintains to get, and i truly think that is a crying shame.

    The biggest problem is not the players using the 10 mill WOW subs as a measuring stck, it's the developers themselves. It's their twisted money hungry mindset that has led the mmo genre to the sad state it has become. 

    Their copycat attitude has led to the making of some of the most uninspiring and useless software on the market to date. Let's all hope and pray that Bioware/LA has approached this new mmo with hungry and inspired eyes and minds.

     

     

  • demented669demented669 Member Posts: 402

    oh boy can't wait to see a game full of jedi running around like a bunch of headless chickens... oh yeah see it in swg.. there is nothing to see here move on...move on...

  • DouhkDouhk Member Posts: 1,019
    Originally posted by isaiahhhhh


    Excuse my ignorance, but what is it that BioWare has done to earn such high praise, and also, what is this state of the art engine that i've read they are developing this new mysterious MMO on?
     
    -Isaiah



     

    I can honestly say that Bioware is probably one of the best video game developing companies out on the market. They've released hundreds of top-selling games and have nothing but praise from critics to show.

    The 21st is going to be a good day for me, it's the release of Fable 2 and the announcement of, hopefully, a KOTOR MMO. I'm quite excited.

    image If only SW:TOR could be this epic...

  • Dark_FailDark_Fail Member Posts: 27
    Originally posted by demented669


    oh boy can't wait to see a game full of jedi running around like a bunch of headless chickens... oh yeah see it in swg.. there is nothing to see here move on...move on...



     

    Well lets just see what is planned first...very few people know how this is gonna unfold, and none of them is telling.

  • SuvrocSuvroc Member Posts: 2,383

    Assuming for a moment that this is going to be a SW MMO, I'm really begging to get a good feeling about it. I have little doubt that it will be another level/loot based game but I think they're going to blindside us with something kind of innovative.

    Although I never played any of the KotOR games I thought I read somewhere that your character's appearence changed as you went further into the dark side. I have a feeling this is something that BW will do in their MMO too. I think they'll also incorporate a padawan system in some way as well.

    I think this is going to be a very intriguing game and I will be certainly paying close attention to the announcement on Tuesday.

  • MackerniMackerni Member Posts: 230

     Don't count your chickens before they hatch.

    Also, I'm a little more excited for Blizzard's "next-gen" MMO; let's hope they aren't just talking about graphics.

  • admriker4admriker4 Member Posts: 1,070

    If any MMO has a chance to be a WoW killer it would be this one.

    • They have the 3 biggest names in the industry backing this, Electronic Arts, Bioware, and LucasArts. I dont think these heavy hitters are gonna be satisfied with a LOTR type of player base (200ish thousand)

     

    • They have spent more than twice as much money as Blizz did on initial development, 75 million dollars (blizz spent about 30...course inflation should be considered so in today's figures thats about 40ish million)

     

     

    • They have some of the best and brightest people working on the game, Vogel and many others with massive amounts of talent and experience. These guys resumes go back to the very beginning of the entire genre. They practically invented MMO's with the advent of Ultima.
  • admriker4admriker4 Member Posts: 1,070
    Originally posted by the_lizard


    Seriously, i'm no fan of SWG anymore but what gives the impression that the game will be shut down when the new one comes out? It's totally not lucas' style to do that, how many times has he re-released the same freaking box set. he will milk sony for all he can until it's not financially feasable for them, not LA. i'm not defending SWG and hope that it would be shut down but i don't see it happening.



     

    just a guess mostly but the fact that this new Star Wars MMO has been kept  a secret is a pretty big clue. Honestly there is zero reason to keep this game a secret unless it would be to protect and milk a few million dollars more from SWG.

    If LA/SOE planned on keeping SWG running you could assume an announcement something along the lines of "yes a new KOTOR mmo is in the works but dont fret SWG fans, we have plans for an expansion, more content, etc for years to come."

    Now if thats not the plan and LA did announce a new Star Wars MMO, the first question out of someone's mouth would be "hey what about SWG ?" They dont want to state SWG is finished when they can milk more money from a desperate player base over there.

    Hype and word of mouth speculation is a very powerful tool these days. There really is no reason to keep quiet on such a major 75 million dollar project unless that project could hurt another money maker.

    I'll give you an example....

    Everquest 2 was announced and the first thing SOE stated was content and expansions would continue for Everquest 1. Now if SOE had planned to shut down Everquest 1 around the time that 2 came out, you can bet your life that SOE wouldnt have said a thing about Everquest 2. It would have remained a rumor until beta testing began.

    More circumstancial proof....

    free server transfers.....

    wait why am I re-explaining this...good grief maybe actually read my original post.

  • DouhkDouhk Member Posts: 1,019
    Originally posted by admriker4

    Originally posted by the_lizard


    Seriously, i'm no fan of SWG anymore but what gives the impression that the game will be shut down when the new one comes out? It's totally not lucas' style to do that, how many times has he re-released the same freaking box set. he will milk sony for all he can until it's not financially feasable for them, not LA. i'm not defending SWG and hope that it would be shut down but i don't see it happening.



     

    just a guess mostly but the fact that this new Star Wars MMO has been kept  a secret is a pretty big clue. Honestly there is zero reason to keep this game a secret unless it would be to protect and milk a few million dollars more from SWG.

    If LA/SOE planned on keeping SWG running you could assume an announcement something along the lines of "yes a new KOTOR mmo is in the works but dont fret SWG fans, we have plans for an expansion, more content, etc for years to come."

    Now if thats not the plan and LA did announce a new Star Wars MMO, the first question out of someone's mouth would be "hey what about SWG ?" They dont want to state SWG is finished when they can milk more money from a desperate player base over there.

    Hype and word of mouth speculation is a very powerful tool these days. There really is no reason to keep quiet on such a major 75 million dollar project unless that project could hurt another money maker.

    I'll give you an example....

    Everquest 2 was announced and the first thing SOE stated was content and expansions would continue for Everquest 1. Now if SOE had planned to shut down Everquest 1 around the time that 2 came out, you can bet your life that SOE wouldnt have said a thing about Everquest 2. It would have remained a rumor until beta testing began.

    More circumstancial proof....

    free server transfers.....

    wait why am I re-explaining this...good grief maybe actually read my original post.



     

    hehe

    I agree with this statement and logic very much. Keeping things a secret does a great amount of things nowadays. Say you have a string in a box, and have carried it around with you for 10 years. You've never opened it and the only person who knows what is inside is you. People are going to be curious to see what is inside that box, even if in the back of their minds they know what it probably is. In the boxes case, a small object. In LA's case, A KOTOR:O.

    I'm not sure if it is for the sole purpose of milking it's SWGs customers, though. Considering at this point I doubt they have even 10k subscribers, something like the knowledge of a new MMO isn't going to do much no matter how soon you announce it; that playerbase is dedicated. Chances are those 10k players will still be playing if it isn't cut by the time this new MMO is out, but it most likely will be.

    image If only SW:TOR could be this epic...

  • KinstarKinstar Member Posts: 1

    Hey guys, I’m hoping it’s a Star Wars mmo as well, so I started to look in on it, mainly at the press coverages over the few months, and I came across on Bioware’s site and found the press announcement were they told us they were making a mystery mmo and where they entered a partnership with Lucas Arts, and the dates made me a bit puzzled. The date they announced the mystery mmo was on March 13, 2006 and the Bioware and Lucas Arts partnership on October 30, 2007. That’s over a year apart, so am I seeing things or is there some kind of explanation for the dates. I’m not trying to flame, I have my fingers crossed for a kotor mmo, but if anyone could help and clear this up, I would be happier.

    Here’s the sites to the two announcements.

     

    www.bioware.com/bioware_info/press_releases/2006_03_15_Austin/

    www.lucasartsbioware.com/

  • FikusOfAhaziFikusOfAhazi Member Posts: 1,835
    Originally posted by Kinstar


    Hey guys, I’m hoping it’s a Star Wars mmo as well, so I started to look in on it, mainly at the press coverages over the few months, and I came across on Bioware’s site and found the press announcement were they told us they were making a mystery mmo and where they entered a partnership with Lucas Arts, and the dates made me a bit puzzled. The date they announced the mystery mmo was on March 13, 2006 and the Bioware and Lucas Arts partnership on October 30, 2007. That’s over a year apart, so am I seeing things or is there some kind of explanation for the dates. I’m not trying to flame, I have my fingers crossed for a kotor mmo, but if anyone could help and clear this up, I would be happier.
    Here’s the sites to the two announcements.

     
    www.bioware.com/bioware_info/press_releases/2006_03_15_Austin/
    www.lucasartsbioware.com/



     

    They only announced their partnership because they got caught due to having to register websites and such. Otherwise I don't think they would have said anything. of coarse they probably knew they would get caught. Thats the story I'm sticking with anyway..I'm sure there is a more professional explanation though.

    See you in the dream..
    The Fires from heaven, now as cold as ice. A rapid ascension tolls a heavy price.

  • ArcAngel3ArcAngel3 Member Posts: 2,931

    I'm just happy to see Admriker get so excited about this lol.  Does my heart good to see others enjoy themselves.

    I've enjoyed your posts for the last couple years Admr..  You opened my eyes to a lot of things in the MMO industy.  It's been very enlightening.

    You also seem to get some good information about behind the scenes development news.  If you aren't one now, you could have a great career as an investigative journalist :).

  • stinneystinney Member Posts: 35
    Originally posted by ronan32


    but soe is releasing the new hoth expansion for swg, so i doubt it means the end of  star wars galaxies.



     

    LAst ditch attempt to try to claw back some subscribers.

     

    How long has the playerbase asked for Hoth?

    SOE are desperately trying to do damage control. The probably relaese hoth so they dont lose any more subscribers.

     

  • stinneystinney Member Posts: 35
    Originally posted by Dark_Fail

    Originally posted by demented669


    oh boy can't wait to see a game full of jedi running around like a bunch of headless chickens... oh yeah see it in swg.. there is nothing to see here move on...move on...



     

    Well lets just see what is planned first...very few people know how this is gonna unfold, and none of them is telling.



     

    With LA at the controls and the last few LA driven game changes and movie releases, do you honestly think it wont have billions of Jedi all over the place?

    Jedi is the main attraction of star wars.

    I hate WOW with a passion. I think its one of the most dull and boring games i've ever played.

    However, I cannot deny its success, so I expect this new SW MMO to be a Jedi infested WOW clone.

    I'm not getting my hopes up.

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