Howdy, Stranger!
It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!
Quick Links
I hate to get political but....
ixontes
Member UncommonPosts: 317
When did health insurance became an entitlement for US Citizens?
Comments
Never.
Unlike most countries, Americans participate in a for-profit health care system.
In fact, I think nearly 70 MILLION Americans (there are maybe 300 or so million Americans) have no health care coverage: break a leg? Trouble. Need medicine? Tough.
Edit: I am a capitalist. A free market capitalist. Health care worked when there was not a culture of greed and there were plenty of doctors. The AMA (American Medical Association) artifically limits the number of doctors in the U.S.A., which is why so many are imported from other countrys. What? American doctors are paid a premium because the DEMAND for doctors is huge but the SUPPLY (controlled by the AMA) is limited to increase doctors' salaries.
I tell people... go to med school. You are guaranteed a job - for life. High income, great hours, etc.
The idea of doctors working 24 hours day occurs briefly during residency.
During residency you have four cycles, and when you do surgery, you are working very hard.
When you do psychiatry, you hardly ever work, and it is balanced.
Health coverage should be a state issue not a federal issue...
Government does not provide health care in all but a few countries.
You can have multi-payer systems. Single payer systems. And totally socialized medicine.
The idea of "government health care" is a total, and complete, ruse. If the government can insure banks and creditors, they can insure people's health care.
It is an insurance issue, ultimately, and whether or not the for-profit system works. It does not. It is so obvious I do not need to go into it.
Health coverage should be a state issue not a federal issue...
I will say again, I do not have health care and I don't see it being the governments responsibility to help me in this catagory. This is NOT an entitlement. What if doctors and scientists found that living on the beach extended human life by 25 years? Should the government help me in getting a condo at Miami Beach?
It must be noted, year after year, the USA has the BIGGEST increases in health care coverage costs as well as the most amount of GDP spent to health care.
As early as 2016, one-fifth of the USA economy will be health care.
Every dollar spent will be for health care.
If you want to talk about sharks in your economic tank, look there.
By the way, you can do a hybrid system such as in Germany and France (who has the best heatlh care system, one of the most efficient, and one of the most cost-effective) in the world whereby you have a combination of national insurance and private insurance.
SO MANY POWERFUL INTERESTS MAKE MONEY ON PEOPLE'S HEALTH CARE. It is not going to change until half the population is priced-out of health coverage.
Also, what is wrong with making profit? A citizen/company/Corporation takes a chance with this capitalism. They role the dice wondering if their health care is better than John Doe's company, and if it isn't then they try to provide something better. With the government, they don't give a rat's A$$. If it is government controlled and you don't like it then F U!!! You know? It's not really rocket science.
You are trying to explain your thinking, but I still do not understand it.
I think you are saying, "if I get sick, regardless of the fact my parents do not have a job that does cover (insures) me or I do not have a job with health insurance, screw it. Do not care for me. Let me die, or let me somehow recover without medical treatment."
Well, I think that is stupid. But that is just me. I know there are people that agree with you, but I would be interesting, and I mean this, into understanding your thinking more.
The Government Never "Gives" And This is How Government Involvement Works
The government is not "giving" you something. The government is not a rich guy behind a desk that is elected or not and "gives" people things. The government involvement is to pool money to purchase insurance at lower rates. The lower rates allow the government to cover many, many more people. People still have to pay premiums, deductibles, and so forth. But for the serious, but rare, things they will get coverage. Moreover, the same is true for pharmaceuticals that prolong life, cure disease, ameliorate pain and suffering. Let me ask.
For example, medicine is much more expensive--citizens pay more for a pill-- in the USA than anywhere else in the world. Do you know why?
reform not coverage.
point goes to mccain.
-I will subtlety invade your psyche-
You are trying to explain your thinking, but I still do not understand it.
I think you are saying, "if I get sick, regardless of the fact my parents do not have a job that does covers (insures) me or I do not have a job with health insurance, screw it. Do not care for me. Let me die, or let me somehow recover without medical treatment."
Well, I think that is stupid. But that is just me. I know there are people that agree with you, but I would be interesting, and I mean this, into understanding your thinking more.
The Government Never "Gives" And This is How Government Involvement Works
The government is not "giving" you something. The government is not a rich guy behind a desk that is elected or not and "gives" people things. The government involvement is to pool money to purchase insurance at lower rates. The lower rates allow the government to cover many, many more people. People still have to pay premiums, deductibles, and so forth. But for the serious, but rare, things they will get coverage. Moreover, the same is true for pharmaceuticals that prolong life, cure disease, ameliorate pain and suffering. Let me ask.
For example, medicine is much more in the USA than anywhere else in the world. Do you know why?
You are correct. The government wants (under Democrats) to tell businesses what they can or cannot offer. With that, if I were an owner or CEO of a business, I am going to start lowering wages or cutting work force. That's not going to help. And with that, the government is going to tell doctors who they can and cannot examine, giving future doctors a less incentive to become doctors. WAIT A MINUTE!!! You will tax the rich to fix all of this??? Hence, business owners? CEOs? and Doctors?
It's kind of like a "Sick Cycle Carousel" isn't it?
As for my parents paying for my health care? Sorry, being 37, I gotta look out for my own AND my 4 year old daughter who is QUITE taken care of.
For me I do not care if government supported healthcare did result in cheap healthcare for everybody, I still do not support it. It is the principle of the thing, I do not feel it is the government's duty to help provide health insurance, and to do so would be over stepping their bounds, I would rather die of a disease than except insurance paid for by the government's ill-gotten gains.
Don't you worry little buddy. You're dealing with a man of honor. However, honor requires a higher percentage of profit
(1) Who told you that Democrats want to tell businesses what they can and cannot offer?
(a) who said this; and
(b) where did you hear it?
If you are not insured, how is your daughter insured? If your wife, through her job, is insured, then it would cover you and then, if your wife elected, your daughter.
Is it the responsibility of companies to provide health insurance? Whose responsibility is it, ultimately, if not yours (you are not insured), your government to ensure everyone is insured (including the working-class poor with no benefits), or companies?
Right on the money!!!
For example, Would you rather have a doctor making $300,000 a year do surgery on you, or one making $39,000 a year??
To put it more in respective, is your service at Taco Bell as good as your service at Olive Garden?
(1) Who told you that Democrats want to tell businesses what they can and cannot offer?
(a) who said this; and
(b) where did you hear it?
If you are not insured, how is your daughter insured? If your wife, through her job, is insured, then it would cover you and then, if your wife elected, your daughter.
Again, I ask, when did insurance become an entitlement?
No my daughter is not insured. I pay for it from my pocket. And NO my (ex) wife does not have insurance.
Man, you are striking out like the 2008 Braves in this thread!!!
From MY perspective, you should NOT be a parent if you cannot provide your daughter with adequate insurance. Excuse me, but this why is why so many kids are suffering in our society.
You seem to support a family-support system --daugther relies on parents for insurance, who do not have insurance but do not want insurance-- but do not play by the unwritten rules.
People like you fascinate me because you support a system that kicks your ass. Heh. And you blame Democrats who want to help people like you. It fascinates me.
Edit: I still want an answer to my question ===> who told that Democrats want to tell businesses what to do, and where did you hear it?
What happens when it turns out your daughter has cancer, congestive heart failure, chronic bone disease, gets ina car wreck and is dependent on life support?
That's what I thought.
This is ignorant.
This makes me sick.
___________________
Sadly, I see storm clouds on the horizon. A faint stench of Vanguard is in the air.-Kien
http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2006/12/13/
It is not a company's responsibility to offer insurance. If I go for an interview and after all is done, the company says, we will offer you this job, it pays $75,000 a year but we don't have any benefits, and then I go to another interview, and the company offers me $75,000 a year with Health care costing $100 a month plus retirement. Who am I going to choose? And if this continues to happen, won't company A change their policy? It's capitalism and I know from a Liberal standpoint it makes you shiver, but it does work!
no taxing health care
point goes to obama
"If you want a picture of the future, imagine a robot foot stomping on a human face -- forever."
That is our system. But LAW, Sir, companies MUST insure their employees when certain requirements are met such as number of employees, hours worked, and so forth.
Sir, this worked well when people stayed in one job for life and were payed an annuity (known as a defined benefit plan). Aside: we, today, have defined contribution plans.
Essentially, it worked well when (1) doctors were numerous; (2) health care costs are market prices; (3) fraud was less prevalent; and (4) people never left their jobs.
Edit: I am actually going for a jog, but I am interested to see your response. I honestly do not say this to be insulting, but you seem to be a part of the working poor. Unfortunately, your resentment is misguided and you are misinformed regarding health care.
(1) Who told you that Democrats want to tell businesses what they can and cannot offer?
(a) who said this; and
(b) where did you hear it?
If you are not insured, how is your daughter insured? If your wife, through her job, is insured, then it would cover you and then, if your wife elected, your daughter.
Again, I ask, when did insurance become an entitlement?
No my daughter is not insured. I pay for it from my pocket. And NO my (ex) wife does not have insurance.
Man, you are striking out like the 2008 Braves in this thread!!!
you sound like someone who is trying to convince himself that he doesnt need health insurance for himself or his family.
all politics aside, thats a terrible mistake. if not corrected, you'll end up realizing too late. Im not sure what sort of assets you have, but kiss them all good-bye as you file bankruptcy.
but, who are you kidding? you're playing devils advocate and really dont even have a daughter. nobody is stupid enough to have a child uninsured and the brains to log on to the internet.
"If you want a picture of the future, imagine a robot foot stomping on a human face -- forever."
(1) Who told you that Democrats want to tell businesses what they can and cannot offer?
(a) who said this; and
(b) where did you hear it?
If you are not insured, how is your daughter insured? If your wife, through her job, is insured, then it would cover you and then, if your wife elected, your daughter.
Again, I ask, when did insurance become an entitlement?
No my daughter is not insured. I pay for it from my pocket. And NO my (ex) wife does not have insurance.
Man, you are striking out like the 2008 Braves in this thread!!!
you sound like someone who is trying to convince himself that he doesnt need health insurance for himself or his family.
all politics aside, thats a terrible mistake. if not corrected, you'll end up realizing too late. Im not sure what sort of assets you have, but kiss them all good-bye as you file bankruptcy.
but, who are you kidding? you're playing devils advocate and really dont even have a daughter. nobody is stupid enough to have a child uninsured and the brains to log on to the internet.
I don't understand where this Bankruptcy talk comes from. Anyone that claims bankruptcy over medical bills is a complete and utter moron. You can make 1 dollar per month payments for the rest of your life and there is nothing that a Medical company can do to you as long as you are paying something.
Currently playing:
LOTRO & WoW (not much WoW though because Mines of Moria rocks!!!!)
Looking Foward too:
Bioware games (Dragon Age & Star Wars The Old Republic)
(1) Who told you that Democrats want to tell businesses what they can and cannot offer?
(a) who said this; and
(b) where did you hear it?
If you are not insured, how is your daughter insured? If your wife, through her job, is insured, then it would cover you and then, if your wife elected, your daughter.
Again, I ask, when did insurance become an entitlement?
No my daughter is not insured. I pay for it from my pocket. And NO my (ex) wife does not have insurance.
Man, you are striking out like the 2008 Braves in this thread!!!
you sound like someone who is trying to convince himself that he doesnt need health insurance for himself or his family.
all politics aside, thats a terrible mistake. if not corrected, you'll end up realizing too late. Im not sure what sort of assets you have, but kiss them all good-bye as you file bankruptcy.
but, who are you kidding? you're playing devils advocate and really dont even have a daughter. nobody is stupid enough to have a child uninsured and the brains to log on to the internet.
Devils advocate? Yes. But no daughter? Wrong. My daughter is insured with my exwife. I am currently an unemployed Computer Tech. I am just trying to get the point of people thinking they are entitled to insurance. Insurance companies want profit too, and taxing them more is not going to help matters. Just like taxing oil company profits is only going to make gas prices go up. I was listening to NPR a couple of weeks ago (you know National Public Radio, the only radio for Democrat agenda????) and they were talking about Japan's failed "universal" health care plan and how doctors only make like $40K to $50K a year. Okay, it scares the hell out of me to think that a doctor making $40K a year is about to do surgery on me. Doesn't it you????
I would love someone who thinks our current system in the US works to help me with my own little puzzle.
(frankly, I could use any serious and constructive advice regarding the matter, from anyone who has it)
Age 29, Non Smoker, Self Employed Business Owner - with health insurance I pay dearly for every month.
So far so good, sort of.
Backround: One vertebrae (L4/L5 I can never remember which is on top) lets the one above it slip a little. Not a lot, just enough to push the disc out into the Sciatic nerve and mess me up good from time to time. When I went off my mother's (govt. employee) Blue Cross/Blue Shield when I was I think 21, I had a record of some treatments for this now 'pre-existing condition'. Bottom line - no insurance company would touch me with out a ten-foot 'rider'. Basically, it's a waiver that I have to sign to get insurance that says they have no responsibility to cover anything that THEY determine is related to my 'pre-existing condition' . For almost nine years now I have had to forego most treatment (every penny out of pocket) for what in nearly any other civilized country could be treated -- and without profit getting in the way.
Problem: My insurance company (and any other I have ever spoken to, over a dozen) won't pay a dime towards the one issue I semi-regularly need treatment for. No insurance company in a for-profit market is going to take on the 'profit-loss risk' that my 'pre-existing condition' poses. How do I get care for my back when I cannot afford to pay out of pocket for any regular therapy or any imaging that I might need and no insurance company will do it?
I would argue that having no major control over my vertebrae should not be an obstacle to good care.
Or should I perhaps not receive any care because one of my vertebrae is imperfect?
Any thoughts?
(1) Who told you that Democrats want to tell businesses what they can and cannot offer?
(a) who said this; and
(b) where did you hear it?
If you are not insured, how is your daughter insured? If your wife, through her job, is insured, then it would cover you and then, if your wife elected, your daughter.
Again, I ask, when did insurance become an entitlement?
No my daughter is not insured. I pay for it from my pocket. And NO my (ex) wife does not have insurance.
Man, you are striking out like the 2008 Braves in this thread!!!
you sound like someone who is trying to convince himself that he doesnt need health insurance for himself or his family.
all politics aside, thats a terrible mistake. if not corrected, you'll end up realizing too late. Im not sure what sort of assets you have, but kiss them all good-bye as you file bankruptcy.
but, who are you kidding? you're playing devils advocate and really dont even have a daughter. nobody is stupid enough to have a child uninsured and the brains to log on to the internet.
Devils advocate? Yes. But no daughter? Wrong. My daughter is insured with my exwife. I am currently an unemployed Computer Tech. I am just trying to get the point of people thinking they are entitled to insurance. Insurance companies want profit too, and taxing them more is not going to help matters. Just like taxing oil company profits is only going to make gas prices go up. I was listening to NPR a couple of weeks ago (you know National Public Radio, the only radio for Democrat agenda????) and they were talking about Japan's failed "universal" health care plan and how doctors only make like $40K to $50K a year. Okay, it scares the hell out of me to think that a doctor making $40K a year is about to do surgery on me. Doesn't it you????
you said your wife had no insurance and I quoted you on that. I guess ive just been baited.
"If you want a picture of the future, imagine a robot foot stomping on a human face -- forever."