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Shadow Warriors

Just curious how Shadow Warriors are finding the game so far, my main is a tank and I'm considering rolling a SW alt but I've come to notice that the ranged DPS classes are normally easy meat in RvR so far.  Do you feel weak in RvR? Can you PvE effectively? Any positive opinions appreciated!

Playing: Nothing
Retired: Runescape, DAoC, SWG, Planetside, Guild Wars, WoW, EVE, Battleground Europe, LOTRO, AoC, WAR.
Tried: Pretty much everything!

Comments

  • TsukieUTsukieU Member Posts: 559

    Shadow Warriors currently are the weakest career in the game.

    Mne eto nado kak zuby v zadnitse.

  • RadioMaryjaRadioMaryja Member UncommonPosts: 123

    thats my feeling aswell. dmg output is weak for a "ranged dps" as it is called. If you want ranged dps get yourself a caster

    image

  • checkthis500checkthis500 Member Posts: 1,236
    Originally posted by RadioMaryja


    thats my feeling aswell. dmg output is weak for a "ranged dps" as it is called. If you want ranged dps get yourself a caster

     

    IMO They make up for that by not being glass cannons. 

    Shadow Warriors and Squig Herders are more "support Ranged DPS."

    If you give them the survivability of a bright wizard or sorceress then they should do more damage.

    I've been severely crippled in RvR thanks to shadow warriors.  It seems like if you play one you have to be smart about your target selection.

    ---------------------------------------------
    I live to fight, and fight to live.

  • miconamicona Member UncommonPosts: 677
    Originally posted by checkthis500

    Originally posted by RadioMaryja


    thats my feeling aswell. dmg output is weak for a "ranged dps" as it is called. If you want ranged dps get yourself a caster

     

    IMO They make up for that by not being glass cannons. 

    Shadow Warriors and Squig Herders are more "support Ranged DPS."

    If you give them the survivability of a bright wizard or sorceress then they should do more damage.

    I've been severely crippled in RvR thanks to shadow warriors.  It seems like if you play one you have to be smart about your target selection.



     

    My friend plays destruction and to him SW are easy targets just like magus are if you play order i tried one myself and i fail to see why they even carry 1 sword the dmg is so weak and you have 0 survival hope versus any destruction melee classes just my thoughs , the real value imo of a SW is keep defence where they are very useful indeed .

  • markoraosmarkoraos Member Posts: 1,593
    Originally posted by checkthis500

    Originally posted by RadioMaryja


    thats my feeling aswell. dmg output is weak for a "ranged dps" as it is called. If you want ranged dps get yourself a caster

     

    IMO They make up for that by not being glass cannons. 

    Shadow Warriors and Squig Herders are more "support Ranged DPS."

    If you give them the survivability of a bright wizard or sorceress then they should do more damage.

    I've been severely crippled in RvR thanks to shadow warriors.  It seems like if you play one you have to be smart about your target selection.

     

    I agree with this. A friend of mine is playing a SW and she is more than useful in all encounters.

    A SW is a class that is quite weak 1v1 but it adds a great deal to group effectiveness and survivability. This is opposite to WPs and DK's which are fantastic solo 1v1 but do not contribute much to the group as a whole.

    I believe most people disappointed with SWs expected something like WoW hunter, which is the best solo class in that game while Shadow Warrior is almost completely the opposite.

    In short, if you plan playing RvR a lot in groups, especially permanent ones, then SW is a good choice. On the other hand if you want to do mostly solo questing and solo RvR then stay away from Shadow Warrior.

  • maskedweaselmaskedweasel Member EpicPosts: 11,891
    Originally posted by markoraos

    Originally posted by checkthis500

    Originally posted by RadioMaryja


    thats my feeling aswell. dmg output is weak for a "ranged dps" as it is called. If you want ranged dps get yourself a caster

     

    IMO They make up for that by not being glass cannons. 

    Shadow Warriors and Squig Herders are more "support Ranged DPS."

    If you give them the survivability of a bright wizard or sorceress then they should do more damage.

    I've been severely crippled in RvR thanks to shadow warriors.  It seems like if you play one you have to be smart about your target selection.

     

    I agree with this. A friend of mine is playing a SW and she is more than useful in all encounters.

    A SW is a class that is quite weak 1v1 but it adds a great deal to group effectiveness and survivability. This is opposite to WPs and DK's which are fantastic solo 1v1 but do not contribute much to the group as a whole.

    I believe most people disappointed with SWs expected something like WoW hunter, which is the best solo class in that game while Shadow Warrior is almost completely the opposite.

    In short, if you plan playing RvR a lot in groups, especially permanent ones, then SW is a good choice. On the other hand if you want to do mostly solo questing and solo RvR then stay away from Shadow Warrior.



     

    As a WP I take offense to that remark.  There are many times I've outhealed an AM and outdamaged WLs, I feel WPs can and should give much more support to a group.



  • Paragus1Paragus1 Member UncommonPosts: 1,741

    They are the weakest class in the game hands down.

    In PvE it is rough because every mob will get into melee range after about 2 range shots.  We were the same class of armor the casters wear!  The caster is capable of doing doing twice the damage.  If anyone gets in melee range in PvP your finished.   Our root has a range that is so small that it will seldom save you, if it even sticks.  It is almost impossible to kill any other class in the game 1 on 1 in PvP.   Our biggest advantage of range is easily nullified.  The theory of your target being softened up enough to melee in a myth.  Do not roll this class unless you are ready for hard mode.

  • FrewegoohFrewegooh Member UncommonPosts: 41

    Well my opinion on SW is pretty good. Its a very strategic type career. You can't really go in expecting to hit like 1-2 buttons and do well. You actually have to think about whats the best way to handle each situations. I will admit we are pretty weak 1v1, and i do hate Witch Elves. They are pretty much the only career i have a big problem with. I have read a bunch of forums on this career, and most people say we are broken and need to be fixed, but i think the problem isn't the career but the people playing the career. In BQ's, Scenarios, and RvR i'm usually in the top 5 dps. You have to remember though, your not only there for the dps. You have some "moves" which help out your entire group, or whoever is around you. In the end this IS a very versatile career. The biggest thing i love about this career is the fact you can kite around almost any one. The only thing i see needing to be fixed is the AoE snare. It just doesn't seem to be working right for me. Sometimes it wont snare people, even if they are right on me. Also, its pretty annoying that our snare really isnt that great to begin with. We snare, they snare, they catch up.... So I got a little carried away in this post. I say just play the career at least until level 21+ and see if you enjoy. Everyone is going to have a different opinion on everything. So hope you enjoy it and become a fellow Shadow Warrior.

     

    EDIT: PvE isn't that bad. Just learn to actually switch stances. If you do that you'll have no problem killing mobs. I think one problem alot of people have with PvE is that they stay in one stance the entire time. You just can't do that and actually kill things. When they get close just switch to the stance with more Defense and you'll kill it. Dont try to beat something to death with a sword with the armor of a casting class. Just doesn't work well.

  • airheadairhead Member UncommonPosts: 718

    Almost 20 so far... pretty fun class... some comments:

    - get skirmisher mastery tactic Split Arrows... then shoot into groups and you will be in the top 5 in dps everytime. Big dps boost there. (4 or 5 opponents grouped tightly together, you can do 800+ damage on an instant cast shot, with no reset timer, and can even shoot it while running).

    - in pve, you MUST stance-dance (imo). It's a pain, and I wish Mythic would FIX it so that if you are in stance A and hit stance A button, you STAY in stance A and do not go into 'no stance'.... why would a SW ever be in no stance? Anyway, avoid that and it's pretty easy to pve solo (scout, slow, switch to assault, wack, done).

    - protect your fellow squishies, debuff opposing tanks. I think that's the primary role. Slow those witch elves as they run to the back to fight your BWs and healers, take em down, or knock them into the lava. Or some tank with some healing backup... use argueably the most powerful moral-1 skill in the game, and knock them over a ledge or into some lava (eng get it too... and maybe BWs ?)

    But all in all, dps is not like BWs... and BWs have a lot of utility as well.... SWs need a buff in either dps or utility imo. I would prefer a utility buff, since I want to play a BW as well and it be fun and different. I hope they do not make the classes the same, because that would be boring.

  • Cotillion99Cotillion99 Member UncommonPosts: 251

    From the point of view of a Marauder:  Any ranged dps i catch up to is going to die quickly, but I don't notice those pesky little arrows near as much as i notice big orange fireballs.  I often forget about them as being someone i should be focusing on.

    image

  • Daffid011Daffid011 Member UncommonPosts: 7,945

    Honestly I don't think many people know how to take advantage of the shadow warriors strengths and just cater to most of its weaknesses.  Keep in mind I am only in my teens and much of what I am experiencing goes somewhat against what higher level players are saying, but I have been a serious force to reckon with is scenarios.  I'm not talking about just plinking arrows into people form far away, but saving casters, killing enemies and just raining terror on the other team. 

     

    Our range damage is good, but the beauty of the class is the melee damage.  Sit back with the casters and pepper targets with them.  Don't be afraid to put on skirmish stance for extra crit and get close to the melee fight if you want.  Eventually some marauder or witch elf will make the mistake of coming to get the bright wizards or the healers.  Switch to assault stance and put down some serious hurting.  Position is everything.  Moving around your target to get positional attacks, hoping just outside of melee range to reapply the ranged instant cast dot and running back into melee is an absolute must.   No need to root your enemy, just short strafing motions.  Also staying in motion really helps.  Not bunny hoping, but circling around your enemy to keep positional attacks viable when they are off cooldown. 

    Another thing I found effective is to find a healer[anyone really] just off to the side and put a few shots into them.  Then charge them and engage in melee.   It is surprisingly effective.  Also you can look for your witch hunters moving around and assist them.  Soften up their target and change in to melee.  You get all the attention and they just destroy the enemy.

     

    I have killed every class one on one and have also had my but handed to me likewise.  The end result is you can put up a good fight against any single class if played well enough.  I'm not talking about kiting enemies either, just straight up combat. 

    If all you want to do is sit back and fling arrows for massive damage, then yes this class is pretty lackluster and may not be something you will enjoy.  Our ranged damage isn't as good as a brightwizard and melee damage isn't as good as the witch classes, but you also don't have to run when a melee fighter charges you.  Just switch stances and go to town on them and you stand a decent chance of survial/winning. 

    So far I have enjoyed the class very much.  There have been a few frustrations, but overall it has been pretty good.

     

    [edit: one thing I forgot to mention is I do not feel very strong in PvE encounters doing quests/leveling.  My ironbreaker/warrior priest could wade through rows and rows of enemies with little fear.  Not so much with the shadow warrior, though much better damage.]

  • afoaaafoaa Member UncommonPosts: 578

    The SW dont really begin to shine until the later levels. Not before lvl 25 are you even useful but then suddenly your effective damage begin to rise and rise.

    From lvl 25+ you begin to get good area attacks, attacks that ignore armor, disarms, debuffs and other goodies that not only make you are lot more dangerous but also give you abilities that is a benefit to your group.

    Before that the SW is a bit of a joke, only light in the darkness is that the SH and Magus is even worse at that time.

    "You are the hero our legends have foretold will save our tribe, therefore please go kill 10 pigs."

  • Random_mageRandom_mage Member UncommonPosts: 1,093
    Originally posted by TsukieU


    Shadow Warriors currently are the weakest career in the game.



     

    Actually SH is.. We do less ranged damage, we have 2 melee skills.  Are pets aren't that great... And the pet counts for 25% of the damage.

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  • markoraosmarkoraos Member Posts: 1,593
    Originally posted by maskedweasel

    Originally posted by markoraos

    Originally posted by checkthis500

    Originally posted by RadioMaryja


    thats my feeling aswell. dmg output is weak for a "ranged dps" as it is called. If you want ranged dps get yourself a caster

     

    IMO They make up for that by not being glass cannons. 

    Shadow Warriors and Squig Herders are more "support Ranged DPS."

    If you give them the survivability of a bright wizard or sorceress then they should do more damage.

    I've been severely crippled in RvR thanks to shadow warriors.  It seems like if you play one you have to be smart about your target selection.

     

    I agree with this. A friend of mine is playing a SW and she is more than useful in all encounters.

    A SW is a class that is quite weak 1v1 but it adds a great deal to group effectiveness and survivability. This is opposite to WPs and DK's which are fantastic solo 1v1 but do not contribute much to the group as a whole.

    I believe most people disappointed with SWs expected something like WoW hunter, which is the best solo class in that game while Shadow Warrior is almost completely the opposite.

    In short, if you plan playing RvR a lot in groups, especially permanent ones, then SW is a good choice. On the other hand if you want to do mostly solo questing and solo RvR then stay away from Shadow Warrior.



     

    As a WP I take offense to that remark.  There are many times I've outhealed an AM and outdamaged WLs, I feel WPs can and should give much more support to a group.

     

    Oh, I agree here. My apologies. I have a WP alt at 14 and he is a joy to play and very useful..

    However, WP doesn't really add anything new or special to group repertoire - nothing to the level of engineer's mass CC or SW's acid arrow or the knocback morale thing. I'm not saying that a WP is "easy mode" (god forbid - melee dps and healing effectively at the same time does require some serious skill) or does not contribute - but it is more on the level of quantity (heals, dps) rather than variety.

    Those utility classes aren't really powerful on their own but they do add a lot to group's versatility in meeting different situations.

  • EvolvedMonkyEvolvedMonky Member Posts: 549

    SW like SH are a support DPS. Which most players cant grasp the concept.   They dont fold like BW so there more annoying.

    And thats what those two classes do. Hit n run, hit n run. And squigs are the best pets in game. Lions are only good with there masters but squigs can take a beating plus they have a few tricks later on.

    image
  • BladinBladin Member UncommonPosts: 1,089
    Originally posted by EvolvedMonky


    SW like SH are a support DPS. Which most players cant grasp the concept.   They dont fold like BW so there more annoying.
    And thats what those two classes do. Hit n run, hit n run. And squigs are the best pets in game. Lions are only good with there masters but squigs can take a beating plus they have a few tricks later on.

     

    Do i have to dig out the comparison chart again?

    SW do not get any big utility/support that are totally above what a bw offers to a group.  A BW can do a lot more damage as well. They also have a channeled snare, a healing reduction on target, and a stun, all in their movement tree(they can dot and move and have more utility and dmg then a SW trying to kite)

    image

  • UrrellesUrrelles Member Posts: 574

    The problem is that most online gamers, especially in MMO games these days, only see 3 class types.

    Tanks, Healer, DPS.  If your not popping a heal or absorbing mass damage, then you should be able to top the damage charts.  That is not the cas ein this game.  A Shadow Warrior, Squig HErder, Engineer, and Magus are utility classes whose focus is on debuffing and protecting other classes through CC abilities.  These classes are also AE debuff and dpsers whos job is to slowly drain groups of enemies HP to panic healers and assist in kills.

     

    The down side to these classes is that Bright Wizards and Mages have a few snare abilities as well that work much more effectively than the Shadow Warriors snares, which makes the Shadow Warrior seem weak and useless. 

    Why is the high damage area effect wizard given better snares than the utility support Shadow Warrior?  Eithe way the SW, SH, Engine, and Magus all have way more debuffs at their disposal.

  • MizabMizab Member Posts: 149
    Originally posted by Bladin

    Originally posted by EvolvedMonky


    SW like SH are a support DPS. Which most players cant grasp the concept.   They dont fold like BW so there more annoying.
    And thats what those two classes do. Hit n run, hit n run. And squigs are the best pets in game. Lions are only good with there masters but squigs can take a beating plus they have a few tricks later on.

     

    Do i have to dig out the comparison chart again?

    SW do not get any big utility/support that are totally above what a bw offers to a group.  A BW can do a lot more damage as well. They also have a channeled snare, a healing reduction on target, and a stun, all in their movement tree(they can dot and move and have more utility and dmg then a SW trying to kite)



     

    Good luck every trying to explain that to BW they just can't understand it all they do is cry we are squishy so we deserve our dps but won't see even when facts we are pretty much as squishy .

  • BladinBladin Member UncommonPosts: 1,089
    Originally posted by Urrelles


    The problem is that most online gamers, especially in MMO games these days, only see 3 class types.
    Tanks, Healer, DPS.  If your not popping a heal or absorbing mass damage, then you should be able to top the damage charts.  That is not the cas ein this game.  A Shadow Warrior, Squig HErder, Engineer, and Magus are utility classes whose focus is on debuffing and protecting other classes through CC abilities.  These classes are also AE debuff and dpsers whos job is to slowly drain groups of enemies HP to panic healers and assist in kills.
     
    The down side to these classes is that Bright Wizards and Mages have a few snare abilities as well that work much more effectively than the Shadow Warriors snares, which makes the Shadow Warrior seem weak and useless. 
    Why is the high damage area effect wizard given better snares than the utility support Shadow Warrior?  Eithe way the SW, SH, Engine, and Magus all have way more debuffs at their disposal.

    THE SW actually doesnt have that much more

    from a earlier post of mine

    snare

    SW

    http://www.wardb.com/spell.aspx?id=9087

    BW

    http://www.wardb.com/spell.aspx?id=8185

    group buffs

    SW

    http://www.wardb.com/spell.aspx?id=9148

    BW

    http://www.wardb.com/spell.aspx?id=8164

    http://www.wardb.com/spell.aspx?id=8161

    Heal debuff

    SW

    http://www.wardb.com/spell.aspx?id=9109

    BW

    http://www.wardb.com/spell.aspx?id=8184

    Anti DPS attacks

    SW

    http://www.wardb.com/spell.aspx?id=9098 -disarm

    http://www.wardb.com/spell.aspx?id=9095 -silence

    http://www.wardb.com/spell.aspx?id=9099 -interrupt

    http://www.wardb.com/spell.aspx?id=9104 -armor and block redux

    http://www.wardb.com/spell.aspx?id=9096 -initiative

    BW

    http://www.wardb.com/spell.aspx?id=8173 -action point reduction

    http://www.wardb.com/spell.aspx?id=8176 +cooldown

    http://www.wardb.com/spell.aspx?id=8174 -aoe silence

    http://www.wardb.com/spell.aspx?id=8186 -stun

    http://www.wardb.com/spell.aspx?id=8165 -corporeal res

     

    while they are a equal number it's arguable which is better, i'd say a BW is far better if you were to negate the 2 "bad ones" AP/init

    Self effects

    SW(ignoring stances)

    http://www.wardb.com/spell.aspx?id=9081 -20% dmg boost

    http://www.wardb.com/spell.aspx?id=9097 +50% crit and 2 sec more build up(lol terrible...)

    BW

    http://www.wardb.com/spell.aspx?id=8175 -self damage and +AP(very nice ability)

    http://www.wardb.com/spell.aspx?id=8167 -ailment, hex, curse removal on a 10 sec cd.

    http://www.wardb.com/spell.aspx?id=8172 -armor boost and casting protection

     

    This is ignoring morale abilities to just do base class utilities.

    Add on the BW's OVERWHELMINGLY higher dps, can you honestly see anything here that would justify your lower dps?

     

    image

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