@ the OP Im sorry this game isn't what you thought. I know how that feels. But I mean come on. This was ment to be PVP. Scenarios are an easy way to PVP. So people do it. I understand where your coming form that PQ's are empty unless guilds do em. But oh well. Pugging sucks imo. Join a guild. That was the other focus WAR was making was guild relations. Not Pugging. Yes scenarios are always pug, but w/e. There just fillers.. I'm sorry the mentality of the player base is lvl quick. But in a PVP game, when the best way to lvl is pvp, let it be. You want more PVP or "balance". Your in the wrong game This game is ment for pvp WITH the option to pve if you would like. Just because the rewards are less does not make them less appealing. Its the fact that us pvpers can lvl while pvping. So we do it. Thats it, you don't like what I just said thats fine, but thats WAR in a nutshell. The base wants lvls not pve. So they PVP all day. Is there anything wrong with it? No, its just not your game then. Sorry.
ER..OP wasn't really complaining much about the PVE (one minor line in OP) but rather how scenarios are the real problem with the game. Looks like to me a lot of folks agree with him, except of course the people who enjoy grinding in the scenarios.
Looks like the solution is simple too, nerf the scenarios so that people return to the open world RVR.
Of course, then the population imbalance issue might become a severe issue. No easy answers I suppose.
THank u very much for the defence
OFF SUBJECT: and may i say i am more of a forum reader and i have seen u here for a very long time and whenever i see whatever it is u post in the thread im reading i read ur entire reply and take it seriously i just wanted to trough that out
If u have seen any more of my other posts you will get the message I am a huge war fanboi. I have ce and both osg and atlas i dont feel like writing a review because most of u dont care Ask any questions if u want. I will try to give a balanced answer. Basically Scenarios ruined this game. Basically bg from lvl 1 - 40 then bg till renown rank 80 then kill enemy boss pve = a strait line from chap 1 to 22 no joke People who care and/or thinking of buying or just people who are letdown pls post
I keep saying that this game is not going really far, yet fanboys insist this is an awesome game, yet this is one of the few games where I see ex-fanboys posting their disappointed by the game after just few weeks.
Guys the issue here is simple, this game hasn't got enough PvE and the PvP/RvR although well done and quite fun it hasn't got any meaning.
In short the problem with this game is longevity.
Almost everyone sooner or later will get bored of it.
I don't say this to put down WAR fanboys, if you enjoy it I am happy for you, I am not that kind of person, but I like to give my feedback based on my experience in MMORPGs, and I know how it will end up.
WAR is very limited as MMORPG, and I have to say unfortunately, because I was looking forward for it as well.
As the OP stated, I believe that the huge mistake being made here are the Scenarios.
You cannot have basically BG in a PvP/RvR centric game..........doesn't make sense at all.
BG, or Scenarios in this case, are implemented when a game don't have a good PvP system for the game world, like WOW.
But WAR has been built around PvP and RvR, so it doesn't need the BGs.
Mythic focused too much on the scenarios, with the result that the world PvP isn't interesting enough and the world itself feels souless.
In short it doesn't feel like a true MMORPG, because what you will end up doing is scenarios.
So as it is, this game will not keep players interested for long, some people keep being in denial, but I would like to talk to them in about 2 months time if they still feel so strong about this game.
I bet they will be playing another game.........
U put my feelings in complete sentences and correct grammer and everything
thank u
Im sry i dont try harder with my words but i dont care as long as readers can understand me
Lot of people forgot that Mythic panic nerfed the quest XP at the end of beta and turned PVE in a horrible grind.
Renown gear has been rendered useless, also at the end of beta.
Then look at the huge amount of XP and Renown you get from doing scenarios.
Every time I login, the game world is dead and you only see hordes of people hanging around in warcamps waiting for their next scenario to pop up. The rest of the people are already in scenarios.
So yes. Scenarios will be the downfall of this game if Mythic isn't going to do something about it real fast.
@ the OP Im sorry this game isn't what you thought. I know how that feels. But I mean come on. This was ment to be PVP. Scenarios are an easy way to PVP. So people do it. I understand where your coming form that PQ's are empty unless guilds do em. But oh well. Pugging sucks imo. Join a guild. That was the other focus WAR was making was guild relations. Not Pugging. Yes scenarios are always pug, but w/e. There just fillers.. I'm sorry the mentality of the player base is lvl quick. But in a PVP game, when the best way to lvl is pvp, let it be. You want more PVP or "balance". Your in the wrong game This game is ment for pvp WITH the option to pve if you would like. Just because the rewards are less does not make them less appealing. Its the fact that us pvpers can lvl while pvping. So we do it. Thats it, you don't like what I just said thats fine, but thats WAR in a nutshell. The base wants lvls not pve. So they PVP all day. Is there anything wrong with it? No, its just not your game then. Sorry.
WHERE IN IZENGARD DID I SAY I WANTED U TO APOLOGIZE. honestly
dont explain to me crap i allready know like im a child or new to the the genre
u wasted ur time posting that im sry to u sir
So you know its the player base killing the game so you blame the game for you not liking it?
That is pure bs man, just because people CHOOSE not to do the pve, the PQ's the keep stuff, does not mean this game is a fail. The player base would be the cause of this.
Don't blame scenario's, focus on the player base for your insults. This game is ment for pvp. They made it so the best way to lvl is PVP. US pvpers love this game. So leave. Someone said tons are leaving. Big woop. Tons of players didn't sign up right away cause they wait a few months for glitches and bugs to be fixed. Your seat on those servers will be taken.
I am feeling your expectations are what killed this game for you. You obviously have no idea what mmo's consist of anymore. ITS A GRIND. The End
BG, or Scenarios in this case, are implemented when a game don't have a good PvP system for the game world, like WOW.
But WAR has been built around PvP and RvR, so it doesn't need the BGs.
Mythic focused too much on the scenarios, with the result that the world PvP isn't interesting enough and the world itself feels souless.
In short it doesn't feel like a true MMORPG, because what you will end up doing is scenarios.
So as it is, this game will not keep players interested for long, some people keep being in denial, but I would like to talk to them in about 2 months time if they still feel so strong about this game.
I bet they will be playing another game.........
I absolutely disagree. BG/Scenarios aren't about a lack of a good system, they are about allowing a PvP experience in a controlled and balanced environment. It also allows a person to quickly (normally) jump into a competitive environment without spending the time to find companions to do world PvP with.
I don't particularly care about the population imbalance right now. Not because it isn't an issue -- it is -- but because Mythic is slowly making changes to help balance things. This issue will be worked out, whether through people making choices based on incentives, or through server merges.
I do agree that there need to be more objectives, more reasons to go out there an do world RvR. Taking the objectives does award a nice amount of EXP/Renown, but people discount them as just part of the keep-taking process in many cases. There should be quests (with nice rewards) for taking the objectives; the benefits they grant (healing/def boons) should also be applied to all players of the controlling realm without having to talk to the NPCs in the respective camp. The idea is to make controlling/obtaining these objectives far more attractive.
Look, the game is still being balanced, and that doesn't just mean class balance. In beta taking an objective was worth several times (hundreds more in T1) the amount it now is, but it was definitely too much. We have to keep giving feedback to Mythic (use the in-game tool, not forums!!!!!!!!) to let them know our feelings of what needs to be worked on.
If u have seen any more of my other posts you will get the message I am a huge war fanboi. I have ce and both osg and atlas i dont feel like writing a review because most of u dont care Ask any questions if u want. I will try to give a balanced answer. Basically Scenarios ruined this game. Basically bg from lvl 1 - 40 then bg till renown rank 80 then kill enemy boss pve = a strait line from chap 1 to 22 no joke People who care and/or thinking of buying or just people who are letdown pls post
Okay here is my question.
Do you write like you have a IQ of 81 because you are a special needs kid or do you think it looks cool?
People hang around in war camps, because that is where they get the repeatable scenario quests and kill X enemy quests that really boost Scenario experience [I personally do quests in the world since I hate standing around]. The first thing that should happen is those are removed or maybe the quest givers are moved out into the world PvP areas, like inside keeps/towers. At least that would give people a reason to travel there.
Scenarions/battlegrounds provide a far greater chance of balanced and fun PvP than just about any game does with non-instanced world PvP. Join a scenario and you are ensured team numbers will be balanced, objectives will be roughly equal in challange, etc etc. World PvP is a total craps shoot. You might not see anyone for hours, you might find an enemy force 10x your number that just steamrolls you or maybe you find that perfect fight that is a different kind of fun than scenarios.
Lets be honest about this. Which choice do you think the average player is going to choose to spend their time in game? Several consecutive hours of balanced fun in scenarios or take the chance spending hours that might just end up with nothing but frustration/boredom for the chance at a decent fight?
Originally posted by Talin Originally posted by ste2000 BG, or Scenarios in this case, are implemented when a game don't have a good PvP system for the game world, like WOW. But WAR has been built around PvP and RvR, so it doesn't need the BGs. Mythic focused too much on the scenarios, with the result that the world PvP isn't interesting enough and the world itself feels souless. In short it doesn't feel like a true MMORPG, because what you will end up doing is scenarios.So as it is, this game will not keep players interested for long, some people keep being in denial, but I would like to talk to them in about 2 months time if they still feel so strong about this game. I bet they will be playing another game.........
I absolutely disagree. BG/Scenarios aren't about a lack of a good system, they are about allowing a PvP experience in a controlled and balanced environment.
And this is THE problem in WAR: By removing/downgrading the scenarios/BGs in WAR the population imbalance will hit hard. But if they do not, then the world feels empty and PQs are unplayable.
BG, or Scenarios in this case, are implemented when a game don't have a good PvP system for the game world, like WOW.
But WAR has been built around PvP and RvR, so it doesn't need the BGs.
Mythic focused too much on the scenarios, with the result that the world PvP isn't interesting enough and the world itself feels souless.
In short it doesn't feel like a true MMORPG, because what you will end up doing is scenarios. So as it is, this game will not keep players interested for long, some people keep being in denial, but I would like to talk to them in about 2 months time if they still feel so strong about this game.
I bet they will be playing another game.........
I absolutely disagree. BG/Scenarios aren't about a lack of a good system, they are about allowing a PvP experience in a controlled and balanced environment.
And this is THE problem in WAR:
By removing/downgrading the scenarios/BGs in WAR the population imbalance will hit hard.
But if they do not, then the world feels empty and PQs are unplayable.
Nerf scenario exp and do the unimaginable. . .MERGE SERVERS!
It's a Jeep thing. . . _______ |___| \_______/ = |||||| = |X| \*........*/ |X| |X|_________|X| You wouldn't understand
People hang around in war camps, because that is where they get the repeatable scenario quests and kill X enemy quests that really boost Scenario experience [I personally do quests in the world since I hate standing around]. The first thing that should happen is those are removed or maybe the quest givers are moved out into the world PvP areas, like inside keeps/towers. At least that would give people a reason to travel there.
Scenarions/battlegrounds provide a far greater chance of balanced and fun PvP than just about any game does with non-instanced world PvP. Join a scenario and you are ensured team numbers will be balanced, objectives will be roughly equal in challange, etc etc. World PvP is a total craps shoot. You might not see anyone for hours, you might find an enemy force 10x your number that just steamrolls you or maybe you find that perfect fight that is a different kind of fun than scenarios.
Lets be honest about this. Which choice do you think the average player is going to choose to spend their time in game? Several consecutive hours of balanced fun in scenarios or take the chance spending hours that might just end up with nothing but frustration/boredom for the chance at a decent fight?
Very good post. I really like your idea about having scenario and PVP/RVR questgivers only in keeps or in "safe" RVR locations. Life for instance an NPC controlled area that other players can take but NPCs will take it back after a certain amount of time. This way the quests are still accessible to singles instead of always needing a group to retrieve the quests.
That coupled with an automatic travel option for sieges would increase world PVP 10 fold I think.
I don't like the scenario system. I love the World RvR but it is too sparse. I am dissapointed in the way this is playing out also.
I know some may think of me as a WAR fanboy, but I am basically a fanboy of every game at launch as I get what fun I can out of it and try to defend it from blatant trolls. I am not biased towards any one game besides FFXI, and I will support every game as it launches and hope for the best.
I agree with the OP though. My only hope is that at rank 40 people focus more on city sieging and world RvR and don't try to grind to 80 renown. I refuse to play scenarios more than what I already have and it was the same in WoW. After about 10 bg's I am done for weeks. Playing right now outside of scenarios sucks because there is not enough action on any of my 3 servers and I am getting bored of questing. PQ's are mostly dead.
I can still find fun in WAR, but it is becoming a lot less frequent and I am dissapointed by it. If I wanted to grind BG's or Scenarios I would have played WoW for longer than a month. I wish they would have or do put more emphasis on World RvR/PvP and if they do I will keep playing. For now I think i'm going to put it on the shelf right beside AoC and WoW and say once again, 'I will come back if they take the game in a direction that suits my playstyle.'
Don't get me wrong WAR is a great game, but it just isn't for me at the moment. I will also add that the amount of Scenarios and the fun that they provide is much more than BG's in WoW, but I can still only do each one so many times.
... and if end game turns out to be mostly world RvR I will try to get a char to tier 4 and will play for a while, but as of right now I will just wait and see.
If u have seen any more of my other posts you will get the message I am a huge war fanboi. I have ce and both osg and atlas i dont feel like writing a review because most of u dont care Ask any questions if u want. I will try to give a balanced answer. Basically Scenarios ruined this game. Basically bg from lvl 1 - 40 then bg till renown rank 80 then kill enemy boss pve = a strait line from chap 1 to 22 no joke People who care and/or thinking of buying or just people who are letdown pls post
I don't necessarily agree 100% that scenarios are killing the game at this point. What I think you will see happen that will kill the game is going to be the Pre-made vs. PuG in the end game scenarios that are going to wreck the game for alot of people. This isn't Mythic's fault but I remember the frustration of alot of my friends getting rolled in other MMO's vs. Premade groups. Now, having said that what I think is going to kill this game is the piss poor communication systems in the game. I shall elaborate:
1. No official game website. I know this isn't a big deal for some but I use the official site of other games as a way of getting my guild's name out there so people have a chance to join. With using multiple fan websites instead of a main website it becomes harder to get that information out there. It's not impossible but it is more work. The game director just stated that WAR is about guilds, groups, and community. Well if that is the case then add something to the main WAR page for guild recruitment. They did this with DAoC and I think it's a bad system. It makes harder the ability for the community to communicate which is never a good thing.
2. Poor chat system. I have to say that I have enjoyed not seeing stupid arguments in global chat like you do in other games. However, I really think they need to add some new function to the chat system to allow for guild recruitment spam so at least people know where to go for guild information. I do not spam the area chats with guild information because it is annoying as hell. One way they could help with this is adding something to the social tab for registered guilds to put up recruitment information so people can look at what guilds are open to new members. This would work like the system in Eve where you can put your guild recruitment information in the different space stations. Makes that whole process very nice.
It does seem like the higher I level the less and less people RvR. I love keep sieges and the RvR "lakes" but it seems like the only way to get renown is to repeatedly do scenarios. When I was in OB RvR was huge and scenarios would pop up almost immediately after signing up in queue. Now I average 20-30 min waits for scenario queues and rarely anybody RvRs anymore. This is my experience on the two servers I'm on.
Yep.. there are only 2 things hurting Warhammer right now 1. Scenarios are a much better thing to do to 'advance' your character, which leaves minimal people willing to run across a zone to do RvR. It's much 'better' to just pve until a scenario procs. 2. Server population imbalances further restrict RvR. On many, if not most servers, the factions are imbalanced which means that if you do run across the zone to get into the RvR area, you are more than likely to steamroll, or get steamrolled. They need to nerf the rewards from scenarios and merge servers to where most of the servers are high/high. The emphasis of this game was based around large group RvR. There just is not enough replayability in scenarios and pve to make the game fun. To the other poster who asked what is different between this and other games.. I'll compare it to WOW. In WOW, the endgame is built around pve progression mostly. You do 5 mans, then you do heroics, then you do 10 mans, you do daily quests and you gain faction reputations. There is a very long and balanced endgame progression (pve side). The thing is.. Warhammer wasn't designed to offer that type of endgame progression (pve), instead it was supposed to offer the big RvR progression. But that is simply not happening since people are grinding away in scenarios and doing PVE. There is no real 'endgame' progression for what players are spending the majority of their time doing (pve and scenarios). It's kinda like when you buy a big toy for your kid. You spend hours building this great big toy, only to find out your kid spent more time playing with the box it came in.
Scenario grind to rank 40 then scenario grind to rr 80 then raid enemy city OVER AND OVER AND OVER its the only way to get the best gear in the game
I know what your saying but one thing i will point out that i have also said, RR80 gear is not better then PVE gear. The legendary RR 75 set is worse then lvl 25 greens.. sure it has some set bonuses but the stats themselves is terrible.. If you don't believe me go check the far south in IC you will see that the RR75 Legendary chest piece has stats like +10str +5init +8 wounds +9willpower.
so maybe they will change it later or maybe they won't, but as it stands now your best gear comes from killing the city king and pve.
If u have seen any more of my other posts you will get the message I am a huge war fanboi. I have ce and both osg and atlas i dont feel like writing a review because most of u dont care Ask any questions if u want. I will try to give a balanced answer. Basically Scenarios ruined this game. Basically bg from lvl 1 - 40 then bg till renown rank 80 then kill enemy boss pve = a strait line from chap 1 to 22 no joke People who care and/or thinking of buying or just people who are letdown pls post
I am sorry you got dissapointed by this game. It happens with many things in life. Games arent different.
I do have fun with WAR but I totally understand some people wont.
Much luck in any other game and I hpe you to have much fun!!! (After all, we play games for the fun).
Anyway, I do have a question for you: which is your rank 40 toon? I see your marauder is just 30 but you seem to know all tier 4... so... which is your 40?
Ive been following this very issue for a few days on several sites. I must say that yes on my server at least in T1-T3 its the same, everyone in scenarios.
Simple solution:
Make scenarios Renown only
Make PQs Exp/inf as they are and bump xp a bit
Make open RVR the only way to combo get renown and exp. here is the deal, if you have a constant battle for a keep, trust me, I get tons of renown out of defending a keep and attacking a keep. XP in scenarios is cutting into this because I get 1k xp per minute on a scenario according to the end stats of each scenario. not as much if i am on losing side. but the numbers are there. Look at tier 2, no one runs phoenix gate because it takes too long to finish and the xp isnt as much as mourkain temple, which by the way the longest fight in there the last 3 days I have played lasted just over 8 minutes. add to that the queue time is less then 2 minutes to get back in. its crazy.
Playing: Not much actively. Games played: to many to list, been playing MMO's since 2001 --------------------------
hmm, my view of the game is really different from a lot of you guys. IMO, scenarios are the best parts of the game. I agree they take lots of players out of the rvr area, but they are also the best way to lvl. Since I am order, I am outnumbered everywhere I go, and since I play on a open server, they are all 10 lvl higher then me. Scenarios are even matches and this is where the fun is at.
I agree there's too much emphasis on Scenarios right now. I love the game, but open world RvR needs some more loving to make people flock to it. Fortunately Mythic is working on it - I just hope they'll do something about it soon. While Scenarios are fun, they aren't open world RvR.
Hmm all this discussion about RvR scenarios being the downfall of warhammer...
Its odd that one of the most fun aspects, one that is enjoyed by most of the current players will be its downfall.
Its also kind of funny, based on the fact that you really dont NEED to RvR scenario "grind" You could always open field RvR grind, PQ grind or PVE grind.
See most games give you one option...PVE grind, PVP usualy comes after your done with the grindfest. Its nice that there is ONE modern game out there with some options as to how ill level up my character...isnt it?
Or perhaps a lot of people would rather go back to their one option game?
Options are scary....
Anyway whos to say that after a few months, the scenario craze will dwindle (no doubt many people will see this as the end of the game for them, unable to move on to other aspects of the game) and hopefully, after everyone scenario grinds to endgame, can start to enjoy all the other options in game, most likely with another character.
My prediction, is that after the wow crowds moves on, after those of us who are sticking with war all hit endgame, your going to see a much needed balancing of in game participation in all the things that currently are being ignored by the scanario grinders.
My opinion is, who cares, scenarios are still fun, most people really like them, its why MOST people choose to participate in them 90% of their game time.
So...meh...seems like a irrational and snap judgement made by a teen and his ever changing emotional "needs". Everythings great one second, everything sucks the next second...rinse and repeat.
As has been said in the latest interview with Jeff Hickman. The best RvR gear drops come from players in Open world RvR and BO sergeants and Keep Lords.
People that do scenarios all day are gimping themselves for any kind of open world RvR.
The fact is, if all you care about are your rank and renown rank, then you're not playing the game to have fun, you're playing it to get to max everything as fast as possible.
I've done maybe 10 scenarios on my way to just rank 15, and I'm having a lot of fun with the game.
It's sad that people no longer play games for fun, they play them to race to max level.
You're not going to get the best gear from scenarios. Once you hit max level you're not going to be any "better." You're not going to get more money from doing it.
I just don't see why all people do is scenarios. You're missing out on armor sets, you're missing out on community, and you're basically missing out on the game you pay to play.
The scenarios are there for people that don't have much time and want quick action. Not to play through to end-game.
My vote is for a renown/xp debuff the more you do scenarios.
--------------------------------------------- I live to fight, and fight to live.
As has been said in the latest interview with Jeff Hickman. The best RvR gear drops come from players in Open world RvR and BO sergeants and Keep Lords. People that do scenarios all day are gimping themselves for any kind of open world RvR. The fact is, if all you care about are your rank and renown rank, then you're not playing the game to have fun, you're playing it to get to max everything as fast as possible. I've done maybe 10 scenarios on my way to just rank 15, and I'm having a lot of fun with the game. It's sad that people no longer play games for fun, they play them to race to max level. You're not going to get the best gear from scenarios. Once you hit max level you're not going to be any "better." You're not going to get more money from doing it. I just don't see why all people do is scenarios. You're missing out on armor sets, you're missing out on community, and you're basically missing out on the game you pay to play. The scenarios are there for people that don't have much time and want quick action. Not to play through to end-game. My vote is for a renown/xp debuff the more you do scenarios.
I only do scenario and I don't feel gimped at all.. I do that because I am casual and if I take my time I will be lvl 40 next year.. i don't want that.
As has been said in the latest interview with Jeff Hickman. The best RvR gear drops come from players in Open world RvR and BO sergeants and Keep Lords. People that do scenarios all day are gimping themselves for any kind of open world RvR. The fact is, if all you care about are your rank and renown rank, then you're not playing the game to have fun, you're playing it to get to max everything as fast as possible. I've done maybe 10 scenarios on my way to just rank 15, and I'm having a lot of fun with the game. It's sad that people no longer play games for fun, they play them to race to max level. You're not going to get the best gear from scenarios. Once you hit max level you're not going to be any "better." You're not going to get more money from doing it. I just don't see why all people do is scenarios. You're missing out on armor sets, you're missing out on community, and you're basically missing out on the game you pay to play. The scenarios are there for people that don't have much time and want quick action. Not to play through to end-game. My vote is for a renown/xp debuff the more you do scenarios.
Eventually people will figure out the best strategy for leveling will be to balance what you do. You wont be gimped if you like doing one aspect more than the others, but you will make things harder for yourself by choosing only one leveling path, such as only scenario's.
The game is way more fun if you balance your time online between pve/pq's/scenarios/open feild rvr.
I think some people are stuck in grind mode, and applying that to scenarios. Its fun, dont get me wrong, its just nice to break up the grind by doing something else for a while.
Im sure in the future they will impliment more or diffrent benefits for doing non-scenario activites like they stated.
War fanboi eh? Let's get something straight first. Being a fanboi or fanboy isn't a bad thing. So it's good to see you state it as a good thing, shows you do like the game, or did. But what I really wanted to point out is this little statement here. Fanboy or not, you clearly didn't do to much reading.
"Basically bg from lvl 1 - 40 then bg till renown rank 80 then kill enemy boss"
First it's called scenarios. Secondly doing scenarios from 1-40 is a feat in itself. After 40 you will come to find out that doing keep seiges will give more RR xp than scenarios. The fact is not enough people are 40 to even get to this point. So doing scenarios from 40-80 would seriously be gimping yourself and your time. Third, you cannot just go kill the king. There are alot more factors to this then just, "Hey i am level 40, RR80, king time!". You need to claim all keep sieges and unlock the zones. Then you have to raid the city and fight your way to the king. Not only can you do that at endgame, but you also have DarkFalls type dungeons located in your city. I'm almost shocked as to the reviews coming out lately. 3/4ths of them seem to have only played pre 20. This game is not a PvE game. This game is not WoW. This game does not end at level 20. And scenarios will be an after-thought when more people hit 40 on your server.
Yeah it kinda sucks people aare always playing scenarios. I would of loved to see scenarios be what the keep siges pre level 40 are. But it really doesn't bother me that much. They are fun, addicting and very casual. But let's not start putting it into peoples heads that all you need is level 40 and RR 80 to kill a king. It's alot more than that. And on a side note, people really should be open world pvping. It's already been stated that keep lords drop some of the best gear. And you also get benefits to your realm such as increased Renown and more cash for items sold to vendors and etc.
Yep.. there are only 2 things hurting Warhammer right now 1. Scenarios are a much better thing to do to 'advance' your character, which leaves minimal people willing to run across a zone to do RvR. It's much 'better' to just pve until a scenario procs. 2. Server population imbalances further restrict RvR. On many, if not most servers, the factions are imbalanced which means that if you do run across the zone to get into the RvR area, you are more than likely to steamroll, or get steamrolled. They need to nerf the rewards from scenarios and merge servers to where most of the servers are high/high. The emphasis of this game was based around large group RvR. There just is not enough replayability in scenarios and pve to make the game fun. To the other poster who asked what is different between this and other games.. I'll compare it to WOW. In WOW, the endgame is built around pve progression mostly. You do 5 mans, then you do heroics, then you do 10 mans, you do daily quests and you gain faction reputations. There is a very long and balanced endgame progression (pve side). The thing is.. Warhammer wasn't designed to offer that type of endgame progression (pve), instead it was supposed to offer the big RvR progression. But that is simply not happening since people are grinding away in scenarios and doing PVE. There is no real 'endgame' progression for what players are spending the majority of their time doing (pve and scenarios). It's kinda like when you buy a big toy for your kid. You spend hours building this great big toy, only to find out your kid spent more time playing with the box it came in.
Scenario grind to rank 40 then scenario grind to rr 80 then raid enemy city OVER AND OVER AND OVER its the only way to get the best gear in the game
I know what your saying but one thing i will point out that i have also said, RR80 gear is not better then PVE gear. The legendary RR 75 set is worse then lvl 25 greens.. sure it has some set bonuses but the stats themselves is terrible.. If you don't believe me go check the far south in IC you will see that the RR75 Legendary chest piece has stats like +10str +5init +8 wounds +9willpower.
so maybe they will change it later or maybe they won't, but as it stands now your best gear comes from killing the city king and pve.
Your spoiled by numeric stats. You also never seen a purple talisman with +20 to a stat that has no time limit. The high lvl RVR sets, with talismans, and the set bonuses, are insane overall.
Comments
ER..OP wasn't really complaining much about the PVE (one minor line in OP) but rather how scenarios are the real problem with the game. Looks like to me a lot of folks agree with him, except of course the people who enjoy grinding in the scenarios.
Looks like the solution is simple too, nerf the scenarios so that people return to the open world RVR.
Of course, then the population imbalance issue might become a severe issue. No easy answers I suppose.
THank u very much for the defence
OFF SUBJECT: and may i say i am more of a forum reader and i have seen u here for a very long time and whenever i see whatever it is u post in the thread im reading i read ur entire reply and take it seriously i just wanted to trough that out
I keep saying that this game is not going really far, yet fanboys insist this is an awesome game, yet this is one of the few games where I see ex-fanboys posting their disappointed by the game after just few weeks.
Guys the issue here is simple, this game hasn't got enough PvE and the PvP/RvR although well done and quite fun it hasn't got any meaning.
In short the problem with this game is longevity.
Almost everyone sooner or later will get bored of it.
I don't say this to put down WAR fanboys, if you enjoy it I am happy for you, I am not that kind of person, but I like to give my feedback based on my experience in MMORPGs, and I know how it will end up.
WAR is very limited as MMORPG, and I have to say unfortunately, because I was looking forward for it as well.
As the OP stated, I believe that the huge mistake being made here are the Scenarios.
You cannot have basically BG in a PvP/RvR centric game..........doesn't make sense at all.
BG, or Scenarios in this case, are implemented when a game don't have a good PvP system for the game world, like WOW.
But WAR has been built around PvP and RvR, so it doesn't need the BGs.
Mythic focused too much on the scenarios, with the result that the world PvP isn't interesting enough and the world itself feels souless.
In short it doesn't feel like a true MMORPG, because what you will end up doing is scenarios.
So as it is, this game will not keep players interested for long, some people keep being in denial, but I would like to talk to them in about 2 months time if they still feel so strong about this game.
I bet they will be playing another game.........
U put my feelings in complete sentences and correct grammer and everything
thank u
Im sry i dont try harder with my words but i dont care as long as readers can understand me
i agree on all points sir
Huge letdown. I was a naive WAR fanboy only 2 weeks ago. Once you hit 22, the game reveals itself as an ugly demon. I hate this game quite frankly.
Sadly the OP is right!
Lot of people forgot that Mythic panic nerfed the quest XP at the end of beta and turned PVE in a horrible grind.
Renown gear has been rendered useless, also at the end of beta.
Then look at the huge amount of XP and Renown you get from doing scenarios.
Every time I login, the game world is dead and you only see hordes of people hanging around in warcamps waiting for their next scenario to pop up. The rest of the people are already in scenarios.
So yes. Scenarios will be the downfall of this game if Mythic isn't going to do something about it real fast.
Cheers
WHERE IN IZENGARD DID I SAY I WANTED U TO APOLOGIZE. honestly
dont explain to me crap i allready know like im a child or new to the the genre
u wasted ur time posting that im sry to u sir
So you know its the player base killing the game so you blame the game for you not liking it?
That is pure bs man, just because people CHOOSE not to do the pve, the PQ's the keep stuff, does not mean this game is a fail. The player base would be the cause of this.
Don't blame scenario's, focus on the player base for your insults. This game is ment for pvp. They made it so the best way to lvl is PVP. US pvpers love this game. So leave. Someone said tons are leaving. Big woop. Tons of players didn't sign up right away cause they wait a few months for glitches and bugs to be fixed. Your seat on those servers will be taken.
I am feeling your expectations are what killed this game for you. You obviously have no idea what mmo's consist of anymore. ITS A GRIND. The End
Enjoy : )
I absolutely disagree. BG/Scenarios aren't about a lack of a good system, they are about allowing a PvP experience in a controlled and balanced environment. It also allows a person to quickly (normally) jump into a competitive environment without spending the time to find companions to do world PvP with.
I don't particularly care about the population imbalance right now. Not because it isn't an issue -- it is -- but because Mythic is slowly making changes to help balance things. This issue will be worked out, whether through people making choices based on incentives, or through server merges.
I do agree that there need to be more objectives, more reasons to go out there an do world RvR. Taking the objectives does award a nice amount of EXP/Renown, but people discount them as just part of the keep-taking process in many cases. There should be quests (with nice rewards) for taking the objectives; the benefits they grant (healing/def boons) should also be applied to all players of the controlling realm without having to talk to the NPCs in the respective camp. The idea is to make controlling/obtaining these objectives far more attractive.
Look, the game is still being balanced, and that doesn't just mean class balance. In beta taking an objective was worth several times (hundreds more in T1) the amount it now is, but it was definitely too much. We have to keep giving feedback to Mythic (use the in-game tool, not forums!!!!!!!!) to let them know our feelings of what needs to be worked on.
Okay here is my question.
Do you write like you have a IQ of 81 because you are a special needs kid or do you think it looks cool?
People hang around in war camps, because that is where they get the repeatable scenario quests and kill X enemy quests that really boost Scenario experience [I personally do quests in the world since I hate standing around]. The first thing that should happen is those are removed or maybe the quest givers are moved out into the world PvP areas, like inside keeps/towers. At least that would give people a reason to travel there.
Scenarions/battlegrounds provide a far greater chance of balanced and fun PvP than just about any game does with non-instanced world PvP. Join a scenario and you are ensured team numbers will be balanced, objectives will be roughly equal in challange, etc etc. World PvP is a total craps shoot. You might not see anyone for hours, you might find an enemy force 10x your number that just steamrolls you or maybe you find that perfect fight that is a different kind of fun than scenarios.
Lets be honest about this. Which choice do you think the average player is going to choose to spend their time in game? Several consecutive hours of balanced fun in scenarios or take the chance spending hours that might just end up with nothing but frustration/boredom for the chance at a decent fight?
I absolutely disagree. BG/Scenarios aren't about a lack of a good system, they are about allowing a PvP experience in a controlled and balanced environment.
And this is THE problem in WAR:
By removing/downgrading the scenarios/BGs in WAR the population imbalance will hit hard.
But if they do not, then the world feels empty and PQs are unplayable.
I absolutely disagree. BG/Scenarios aren't about a lack of a good system, they are about allowing a PvP experience in a controlled and balanced environment.
And this is THE problem in WAR:
By removing/downgrading the scenarios/BGs in WAR the population imbalance will hit hard.
But if they do not, then the world feels empty and PQs are unplayable.
Nerf scenario exp and do the unimaginable. . .MERGE SERVERS!
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You wouldn't understand
Very good post. I really like your idea about having scenario and PVP/RVR questgivers only in keeps or in "safe" RVR locations. Life for instance an NPC controlled area that other players can take but NPCs will take it back after a certain amount of time. This way the quests are still accessible to singles instead of always needing a group to retrieve the quests.
That coupled with an automatic travel option for sieges would increase world PVP 10 fold I think.
I don't like the scenario system. I love the World RvR but it is too sparse. I am dissapointed in the way this is playing out also.
I know some may think of me as a WAR fanboy, but I am basically a fanboy of every game at launch as I get what fun I can out of it and try to defend it from blatant trolls. I am not biased towards any one game besides FFXI, and I will support every game as it launches and hope for the best.
I agree with the OP though. My only hope is that at rank 40 people focus more on city sieging and world RvR and don't try to grind to 80 renown. I refuse to play scenarios more than what I already have and it was the same in WoW. After about 10 bg's I am done for weeks. Playing right now outside of scenarios sucks because there is not enough action on any of my 3 servers and I am getting bored of questing. PQ's are mostly dead.
I can still find fun in WAR, but it is becoming a lot less frequent and I am dissapointed by it. If I wanted to grind BG's or Scenarios I would have played WoW for longer than a month. I wish they would have or do put more emphasis on World RvR/PvP and if they do I will keep playing. For now I think i'm going to put it on the shelf right beside AoC and WoW and say once again, 'I will come back if they take the game in a direction that suits my playstyle.'
Don't get me wrong WAR is a great game, but it just isn't for me at the moment. I will also add that the amount of Scenarios and the fun that they provide is much more than BG's in WoW, but I can still only do each one so many times.
... and if end game turns out to be mostly world RvR I will try to get a char to tier 4 and will play for a while, but as of right now I will just wait and see.
I don't necessarily agree 100% that scenarios are killing the game at this point. What I think you will see happen that will kill the game is going to be the Pre-made vs. PuG in the end game scenarios that are going to wreck the game for alot of people. This isn't Mythic's fault but I remember the frustration of alot of my friends getting rolled in other MMO's vs. Premade groups. Now, having said that what I think is going to kill this game is the piss poor communication systems in the game. I shall elaborate:
1. No official game website. I know this isn't a big deal for some but I use the official site of other games as a way of getting my guild's name out there so people have a chance to join. With using multiple fan websites instead of a main website it becomes harder to get that information out there. It's not impossible but it is more work. The game director just stated that WAR is about guilds, groups, and community. Well if that is the case then add something to the main WAR page for guild recruitment. They did this with DAoC and I think it's a bad system. It makes harder the ability for the community to communicate which is never a good thing.
2. Poor chat system. I have to say that I have enjoyed not seeing stupid arguments in global chat like you do in other games. However, I really think they need to add some new function to the chat system to allow for guild recruitment spam so at least people know where to go for guild information. I do not spam the area chats with guild information because it is annoying as hell. One way they could help with this is adding something to the social tab for registered guilds to put up recruitment information so people can look at what guilds are open to new members. This would work like the system in Eve where you can put your guild recruitment information in the different space stations. Makes that whole process very nice.
It does seem like the higher I level the less and less people RvR. I love keep sieges and the RvR "lakes" but it seems like the only way to get renown is to repeatedly do scenarios. When I was in OB RvR was huge and scenarios would pop up almost immediately after signing up in queue. Now I average 20-30 min waits for scenario queues and rarely anybody RvRs anymore. This is my experience on the two servers I'm on.
Scenario grind to rank 40 then scenario grind to rr 80 then raid enemy city OVER AND OVER AND OVER its the only way to get the best gear in the game
I know what your saying but one thing i will point out that i have also said, RR80 gear is not better then PVE gear. The legendary RR 75 set is worse then lvl 25 greens.. sure it has some set bonuses but the stats themselves is terrible.. If you don't believe me go check the far south in IC you will see that the RR75 Legendary chest piece has stats like +10str +5init +8 wounds +9willpower.
so maybe they will change it later or maybe they won't, but as it stands now your best gear comes from killing the city king and pve.
I am sorry you got dissapointed by this game. It happens with many things in life. Games arent different.
I do have fun with WAR but I totally understand some people wont.
Much luck in any other game and I hpe you to have much fun!!! (After all, we play games for the fun).
Anyway, I do have a question for you: which is your rank 40 toon? I see your marauder is just 30 but you seem to know all tier 4... so... which is your 40?
Ive been following this very issue for a few days on several sites. I must say that yes on my server at least in T1-T3 its the same, everyone in scenarios.
Simple solution:
Make scenarios Renown only
Make PQs Exp/inf as they are and bump xp a bit
Make open RVR the only way to combo get renown and exp. here is the deal, if you have a constant battle for a keep, trust me, I get tons of renown out of defending a keep and attacking a keep. XP in scenarios is cutting into this because I get 1k xp per minute on a scenario according to the end stats of each scenario. not as much if i am on losing side. but the numbers are there. Look at tier 2, no one runs phoenix gate because it takes too long to finish and the xp isnt as much as mourkain temple, which by the way the longest fight in there the last 3 days I have played lasted just over 8 minutes. add to that the queue time is less then 2 minutes to get back in. its crazy.
Playing: Not much actively.
Games played: to many to list, been playing MMO's since 2001
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hmm, my view of the game is really different from a lot of you guys. IMO, scenarios are the best parts of the game. I agree they take lots of players out of the rvr area, but they are also the best way to lvl. Since I am order, I am outnumbered everywhere I go, and since I play on a open server, they are all 10 lvl higher then me. Scenarios are even matches and this is where the fun is at.
I agree there's too much emphasis on Scenarios right now. I love the game, but open world RvR needs some more loving to make people flock to it. Fortunately Mythic is working on it - I just hope they'll do something about it soon. While Scenarios are fun, they aren't open world RvR.
Hmm all this discussion about RvR scenarios being the downfall of warhammer...
Its odd that one of the most fun aspects, one that is enjoyed by most of the current players will be its downfall.
Its also kind of funny, based on the fact that you really dont NEED to RvR scenario "grind" You could always open field RvR grind, PQ grind or PVE grind.
See most games give you one option...PVE grind, PVP usualy comes after your done with the grindfest. Its nice that there is ONE modern game out there with some options as to how ill level up my character...isnt it?
Or perhaps a lot of people would rather go back to their one option game?
Options are scary....
Anyway whos to say that after a few months, the scenario craze will dwindle (no doubt many people will see this as the end of the game for them, unable to move on to other aspects of the game) and hopefully, after everyone scenario grinds to endgame, can start to enjoy all the other options in game, most likely with another character.
My prediction, is that after the wow crowds moves on, after those of us who are sticking with war all hit endgame, your going to see a much needed balancing of in game participation in all the things that currently are being ignored by the scanario grinders.
My opinion is, who cares, scenarios are still fun, most people really like them, its why MOST people choose to participate in them 90% of their game time.
So...meh...seems like a irrational and snap judgement made by a teen and his ever changing emotional "needs". Everythings great one second, everything sucks the next second...rinse and repeat.
As has been said in the latest interview with Jeff Hickman. The best RvR gear drops come from players in Open world RvR and BO sergeants and Keep Lords.
People that do scenarios all day are gimping themselves for any kind of open world RvR.
The fact is, if all you care about are your rank and renown rank, then you're not playing the game to have fun, you're playing it to get to max everything as fast as possible.
I've done maybe 10 scenarios on my way to just rank 15, and I'm having a lot of fun with the game.
It's sad that people no longer play games for fun, they play them to race to max level.
You're not going to get the best gear from scenarios. Once you hit max level you're not going to be any "better." You're not going to get more money from doing it.
I just don't see why all people do is scenarios. You're missing out on armor sets, you're missing out on community, and you're basically missing out on the game you pay to play.
The scenarios are there for people that don't have much time and want quick action. Not to play through to end-game.
My vote is for a renown/xp debuff the more you do scenarios.
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I live to fight, and fight to live.
I only do scenario and I don't feel gimped at all.. I do that because I am casual and if I take my time I will be lvl 40 next year.. i don't want that.
Eventually people will figure out the best strategy for leveling will be to balance what you do. You wont be gimped if you like doing one aspect more than the others, but you will make things harder for yourself by choosing only one leveling path, such as only scenario's.
The game is way more fun if you balance your time online between pve/pq's/scenarios/open feild rvr.
I think some people are stuck in grind mode, and applying that to scenarios. Its fun, dont get me wrong, its just nice to break up the grind by doing something else for a while.
Im sure in the future they will impliment more or diffrent benefits for doing non-scenario activites like they stated.
War fanboi eh? Let's get something straight first. Being a fanboi or fanboy isn't a bad thing. So it's good to see you state it as a good thing, shows you do like the game, or did. But what I really wanted to point out is this little statement here. Fanboy or not, you clearly didn't do to much reading.
"Basically bg from lvl 1 - 40 then bg till renown rank 80 then kill enemy boss"
First it's called scenarios. Secondly doing scenarios from 1-40 is a feat in itself. After 40 you will come to find out that doing keep seiges will give more RR xp than scenarios. The fact is not enough people are 40 to even get to this point. So doing scenarios from 40-80 would seriously be gimping yourself and your time. Third, you cannot just go kill the king. There are alot more factors to this then just, "Hey i am level 40, RR80, king time!". You need to claim all keep sieges and unlock the zones. Then you have to raid the city and fight your way to the king. Not only can you do that at endgame, but you also have DarkFalls type dungeons located in your city. I'm almost shocked as to the reviews coming out lately. 3/4ths of them seem to have only played pre 20. This game is not a PvE game. This game is not WoW. This game does not end at level 20. And scenarios will be an after-thought when more people hit 40 on your server.
Yeah it kinda sucks people aare always playing scenarios. I would of loved to see scenarios be what the keep siges pre level 40 are. But it really doesn't bother me that much. They are fun, addicting and very casual. But let's not start putting it into peoples heads that all you need is level 40 and RR 80 to kill a king. It's alot more than that. And on a side note, people really should be open world pvping. It's already been stated that keep lords drop some of the best gear. And you also get benefits to your realm such as increased Renown and more cash for items sold to vendors and etc.
Scenario grind to rank 40 then scenario grind to rr 80 then raid enemy city OVER AND OVER AND OVER its the only way to get the best gear in the game
I know what your saying but one thing i will point out that i have also said, RR80 gear is not better then PVE gear. The legendary RR 75 set is worse then lvl 25 greens.. sure it has some set bonuses but the stats themselves is terrible.. If you don't believe me go check the far south in IC you will see that the RR75 Legendary chest piece has stats like +10str +5init +8 wounds +9willpower.
so maybe they will change it later or maybe they won't, but as it stands now your best gear comes from killing the city king and pve.
Your spoiled by numeric stats. You also never seen a purple talisman with +20 to a stat that has no time limit. The high lvl RVR sets, with talismans, and the set bonuses, are insane overall.