I'm an old EQ1 player (since the classic days when Rubicite Armor dropped in Cazic Thule) and it was my first online RPG type game.
I think all of us who have fond memories of the game are also skewed by the fact that the game was most likely our first MMORPG. Because of its design(whether it be wisdom or technical limitation) the game took a lot of player knowledge, cohesion, and trust in the group members to get much of anything done. It was definetely NOT solo built (wisdom or flaw?) and depending on the class you've chosen, this will affect you starting at around level 10.
Anyway, I loved the game. It was very immersive and the teamwork built strong bonds between players. Because in that game, a PUG was a nightmare to behold. One false move could be devestating. Preparation was key.I think a lot of the immersion had to do with the fact that you literally ran everywhere you went, and in a "first person" perspective. Very rarely did I zoom my camera away from my character and that was only to take a screen shot. Most game these days are designed so that you see your character running around, but I think that takes away from the immersion. There is something to be said about sitting there and suddenly getting attacked from behind and having to actually spin around to see it.
I dont think there will ever be a game that lives up to the memory of EQ1 simply because nostalgia adds value to a game. And after 6 years of playing it there are a lot of memories tied in and its undeniable that the game had a significant impact on my gamer life(and some RL as well). CoH/CoV did grab a good amount of attention from me because the originality of the game design brought back a lot of the "brand new" feelings I had with EQ1. Being able to fly, run a super speed, completely customize a character costume, use super powers, fight a group of mobs solo, it just really made you feel a totally new experiance. The game was easy and repetitive, and the leveling scale and powers above level 30 sucked but it was still good.
I think what we are ALL looking for is something that feels new that works outside the normal thought. EVE looked good to me too but I'm not all into the PVP deal. I played a lot of WOW due to abotu 15 RL friends and family all playing together. But I'd never say it was/is an awesome game.
Of all the games I played, LOTRO and Final Fanstay 11 have the closest feel to EQ that I've known, but even those didn't feel new. And I didn't like the artwork for armor in LOTRO at all. I'd avoid DDO completely. I hated it and yes I used to play pen and paper D&D so I had a good understanding of how it worked.
I'm looking at WAR right now due some friends wanting to try it but I'm not expecting a whole lot honestly. EQ standards will never be met, just like no cartoon will ever compare to Thundercats and Robotech.
The only thing EQ1 "invented" was raiding and technically the playerbase invented that and the developers just actually implemented it for real after aarge amounts of players continuously zerged supposedly unkillable bosses.
I disagree, there is a difference between a MUD and a mmo, and Everquest, as well as UO had to make their fair share of innovations being both pioneering mmos. Diku Mud incidentally was what it credits by the way.
I am actually trying out lotro right now and im having a blast, the world feels massive, alot of mystery to it which I enjoy. The story is great and it does feel like a mix of wow and eq in one game. But it feels so differant then other mmorpgs ive played it is a breath of fresh air, I actually enjoy the looks of the armor alot better then eq2 if you ask me, now you can customize the looks with dyes and other things at higher levels im sure it looks alot better.
Anyways this may just be my replacement, sure its quest based but in a very fun way and you are even rewarded for grinding if you want to do it.
The only thing EQ1 "invented" was raiding and technically the playerbase invented that and the developers just actually implemented it for real after aarge amounts of players continuously zerged supposedly unkillable bosses.
I disagree, there is a difference between a MUD and a mmo, and Everquest, as well as UO had to make their fair share of innovations being both pioneering mmos. Diku Mud incidentally was what it credits by the way.
DIKU MUD was a codebase not a particular MUD. The MUD EQ is based on was a DIKU mud though. Further proving its inferiority, LP MUD for life! joking
The only real difference between a MUD and an MMORPG like EQ is the 3D parts. Some parts of the gameplay, mainly range and display, had to be added in. Other than that not that much. The spells, skills, resource management all that was basically the same.
Almost everything in EQ1 can be seen in a MUD like RetroMUD. I use that MUD because its a mature forced grouping MUD with a party system and aggro management stuff and crafting professions and well everything that was in EQ1 or UO for that matter. I think that MUD had player housing. I know of a few others that did either way.
It is true that an MMORPG that actually used its z-axis and things like collision to its full potential might become quite different from a MUD. But EQ1 did not and does not do this. The only real difference between a server for EQ versus a MUD server is dynamic ranging and some things like hiding behind a rock or whatever. Mostly movement issues.
Its really not that hard to trace it back. All the slash commands come from the MUD codebase stuff. Heck in WoW if they didn't restrict it you could write LUA code to play the entire game for you almost. All that stuff is straight out of MUD stuff.
Frankly most of the stuff people on here claim as innovative features that are not related to 3D stuff have been done in tons of different and in some case pretty good ways in MUDs. Sieges and RvR existed in Gemstone I believe. Not real up on my Gemstone though. The real innovation would come in the 3D placement of a siege engine.
And besides like I said Meridian 59 was the pioneer not EQ1. It is fine to like EQ1, but give credit where credit is due. It may be the case that EQ1 solved and number ofproblems independently, but they were not the big daddy innovators people like to claim. They were among the first that is true.
EQ deserve credit for being originally a fairly popular MUD and one of the only ones to transition into 3D . Semi 3D really, there are very few MMOs that use the z-axis to it full potential, not just EQ. They do this on purpose be the z-axis causes them a lot of headaches. Mainly because they are making graphical MUDs much like EQ1 did and they simply don't know what to do with the z-axis.
In some ways EQ1 deserves more credit for its "honesty" It is a graphical MUD. The 2nd generation never even bothered to innovate and made a real 3D game (other than Neocron, Eve, and DDO). EQ1 was the next step you can't really blame it for only having a prefunctory use of the z-axis. But all these games out right now.
I mean 8-10 years and no one except Neocron has birds that actually fly? And Neocron is 6 years old !
Heck even my old MUD actually had flying mechanics where if I was flying I could go up and birds might fly up to get away from me and i would chase them. But everything in WoW just hovers, you would think their wings would get tired.
EQ1 was a trailbalzer, but it was not an innovator. Nor should it have been. Brad McQuaid would have been stupid to take that big of step.
Sadly very few have taken any other real steps. And two of the ones that did try to make real 3D rpgs are struggling (DDO and Neocron), of course both those games are pretty wonky in many ways so I don't blame anyone for that.
These games that claim to be 2nd gen are not. Eve, DDO, Neocron, City of Heroes. That is the 2nd gen. They are the only one that really use the z-axis. The other games WoW, LOTRO, EQ2 etc. Those are just graphical MUDs they just refined or permutated things EQ1 had.
And everything other than range that EQ1 had, has been permutated in tons of ways in MUDs. The only real difference is that they were not done so in a highly professional manner like blizzard did.
In a game like EQ1 or WoW I target something and start a spell and the spell hit and does something. In a MUD exactly the same thing happens. The only difference is the range check
In DDO I swing my weapon if it jumps out of the way I miss. There is nothing analogous in a MUD. In DDO I target something with a ray spell like Scorching ray. It shoots a ray, if its moving that ray may miss. That cannot be captured in a MUD. Not really.
Everything in EQ combat is captured by MUD mechanics except range. Casting times, targets, aggro, assist. All of it was in MUDs. And nothing in EQ combat requires anything graphical or 3D or 2D except range. MUDs were and are real-time already so all that is the same. Just look at a combat log and look at MUD it becomes quite apparent.
I have tried so many out there the only one that brings me back is coh but the missions are just to repetitve to last, so my question is what do you guys think I should try between ryzom, lotro, requirum, ao, and eve online?
Im truly at a loss here I know I like freedom but I also want alot of options not just grinding options ugh no thank you! If it helps the games I could not stand are wow and korean grinders way to linear experience for mmorpg I want to actually feel like im a part of the world while I escape from the stresses of life.
If this helps this is my basic list of what im looking for. Creativty Freedom Story driven only by choice of course Custimizable abilitys/skills and hopefully some roleplay skills An awesome community Group encouraged Must be challenging and i dont mean only leveling, traveling, and almost everything you do no hold your hand easy mode crap eq 1 players know what im talking about. Thats about it, if any eq vets have advice im listening thanks for reading my post.
Why not go back to EverQuest then?
Afterall I think theres no better option for you right now.
I have tried a few muds but I disagree with you and even if it is like a mud who cares! Seriously why are you even comparing the two everquest and mud are completely differant regardless, im pretty sure most of those muds didnt have the content eq1 did nor the lore for that matter.
I loved the game but if you didnt thats fine but no need to keep saying how you think muds are the same thing, and no need to trash the developer honestly. Besides muds copied from pen and paper rpgs in the first place they all get there ideas off each other so even if you where right its pointless because everything is a clone in its own way so stop trying to prove something you cannot.
I have tried so many out there the only one that brings me back is coh but the missions are just to repetitve to last, so my question is what do you guys think I should try between ryzom, lotro, requirum, ao, and eve online?
Im truly at a loss here I know I like freedom but I also want alot of options not just grinding options ugh no thank you! If it helps the games I could not stand are wow and korean grinders way to linear experience for mmorpg I want to actually feel like im a part of the world while I escape from the stresses of life.
If this helps this is my basic list of what im looking for. Creativty Freedom Story driven only by choice of course Custimizable abilitys/skills and hopefully some roleplay skills An awesome community Group encouraged Must be challenging and i dont mean only leveling, traveling, and almost everything you do no hold your hand easy mode crap eq 1 players know what im talking about. Thats about it, if any eq vets have advice im listening thanks for reading my post.
Why not go back to EverQuest then?
Afterall I think theres no better option for you right now.
Well for starters todays EQ bears no resemblence to the game most of us played. With all the dumbing down and other things SOE has done to the game over the years it is closer to a WOW clone than anything we played. True it has the best raiding, but that is about it.
Secondly its an SOE game many of us won't touch an SOE game with a ten foot pole these days.
You can definitely see all the aspects of a mud in Everquest- especially as it's quite keen on the textual descriptions, and all the mechanics are replicated quite possibly. But, all I am saying is there must have been 'challenges' adopting the Mud to a mmorpg, as well as certain changes. I am curious though what a Diku Mud is like.
I guess thats just not the setting im looking for, sorry could not get into that game. It had all the right features for me but the world I did not like much.
Comments
I'm an old EQ1 player (since the classic days when Rubicite Armor dropped in Cazic Thule) and it was my first online RPG type game.
I think all of us who have fond memories of the game are also skewed by the fact that the game was most likely our first MMORPG. Because of its design(whether it be wisdom or technical limitation) the game took a lot of player knowledge, cohesion, and trust in the group members to get much of anything done. It was definetely NOT solo built (wisdom or flaw?) and depending on the class you've chosen, this will affect you starting at around level 10.
Anyway, I loved the game. It was very immersive and the teamwork built strong bonds between players. Because in that game, a PUG was a nightmare to behold. One false move could be devestating. Preparation was key. I think a lot of the immersion had to do with the fact that you literally ran everywhere you went, and in a "first person" perspective. Very rarely did I zoom my camera away from my character and that was only to take a screen shot. Most game these days are designed so that you see your character running around, but I think that takes away from the immersion. There is something to be said about sitting there and suddenly getting attacked from behind and having to actually spin around to see it.
I dont think there will ever be a game that lives up to the memory of EQ1 simply because nostalgia adds value to a game. And after 6 years of playing it there are a lot of memories tied in and its undeniable that the game had a significant impact on my gamer life(and some RL as well). CoH/CoV did grab a good amount of attention from me because the originality of the game design brought back a lot of the "brand new" feelings I had with EQ1. Being able to fly, run a super speed, completely customize a character costume, use super powers, fight a group of mobs solo, it just really made you feel a totally new experiance. The game was easy and repetitive, and the leveling scale and powers above level 30 sucked but it was still good.
I think what we are ALL looking for is something that feels new that works outside the normal thought. EVE looked good to me too but I'm not all into the PVP deal. I played a lot of WOW due to abotu 15 RL friends and family all playing together. But I'd never say it was/is an awesome game.
Of all the games I played, LOTRO and Final Fanstay 11 have the closest feel to EQ that I've known, but even those didn't feel new. And I didn't like the artwork for armor in LOTRO at all. I'd avoid DDO completely. I hated it and yes I used to play pen and paper D&D so I had a good understanding of how it worked.
I'm looking at WAR right now due some friends wanting to try it but I'm not expecting a whole lot honestly. EQ standards will never be met, just like no cartoon will ever compare to Thundercats and Robotech.
I am actually trying out lotro right now and im having a blast, the world feels massive, alot of mystery to it which I enjoy. The story is great and it does feel like a mix of wow and eq in one game. But it feels so differant then other mmorpgs ive played it is a breath of fresh air, I actually enjoy the looks of the armor alot better then eq2 if you ask me, now you can customize the looks with dyes and other things at higher levels im sure it looks alot better.
Anyways this may just be my replacement, sure its quest based but in a very fun way and you are even rewarded for grinding if you want to do it.
DIKU MUD was a codebase not a particular MUD. The MUD EQ is based on was a DIKU mud though. Further proving its inferiority, LP MUD for life! joking
The only real difference between a MUD and an MMORPG like EQ is the 3D parts. Some parts of the gameplay, mainly range and display, had to be added in. Other than that not that much. The spells, skills, resource management all that was basically the same.
Almost everything in EQ1 can be seen in a MUD like RetroMUD. I use that MUD because its a mature forced grouping MUD with a party system and aggro management stuff and crafting professions and well everything that was in EQ1 or UO for that matter. I think that MUD had player housing. I know of a few others that did either way.
It is true that an MMORPG that actually used its z-axis and things like collision to its full potential might become quite different from a MUD. But EQ1 did not and does not do this. The only real difference between a server for EQ versus a MUD server is dynamic ranging and some things like hiding behind a rock or whatever. Mostly movement issues.
Its really not that hard to trace it back. All the slash commands come from the MUD codebase stuff. Heck in WoW if they didn't restrict it you could write LUA code to play the entire game for you almost. All that stuff is straight out of MUD stuff.
Frankly most of the stuff people on here claim as innovative features that are not related to 3D stuff have been done in tons of different and in some case pretty good ways in MUDs. Sieges and RvR existed in Gemstone I believe. Not real up on my Gemstone though. The real innovation would come in the 3D placement of a siege engine.
And besides like I said Meridian 59 was the pioneer not EQ1. It is fine to like EQ1, but give credit where credit is due. It may be the case that EQ1 solved and number ofproblems independently, but they were not the big daddy innovators people like to claim. They were among the first that is true.
EQ deserve credit for being originally a fairly popular MUD and one of the only ones to transition into 3D . Semi 3D really, there are very few MMOs that use the z-axis to it full potential, not just EQ. They do this on purpose be the z-axis causes them a lot of headaches. Mainly because they are making graphical MUDs much like EQ1 did and they simply don't know what to do with the z-axis.
In some ways EQ1 deserves more credit for its "honesty" It is a graphical MUD. The 2nd generation never even bothered to innovate and made a real 3D game (other than Neocron, Eve, and DDO). EQ1 was the next step you can't really blame it for only having a prefunctory use of the z-axis. But all these games out right now.
I mean 8-10 years and no one except Neocron has birds that actually fly? And Neocron is 6 years old !
Heck even my old MUD actually had flying mechanics where if I was flying I could go up and birds might fly up to get away from me and i would chase them. But everything in WoW just hovers, you would think their wings would get tired.
EQ1 was a trailbalzer, but it was not an innovator. Nor should it have been. Brad McQuaid would have been stupid to take that big of step.
Sadly very few have taken any other real steps. And two of the ones that did try to make real 3D rpgs are struggling (DDO and Neocron), of course both those games are pretty wonky in many ways so I don't blame anyone for that.
These games that claim to be 2nd gen are not. Eve, DDO, Neocron, City of Heroes. That is the 2nd gen. They are the only one that really use the z-axis. The other games WoW, LOTRO, EQ2 etc. Those are just graphical MUDs they just refined or permutated things EQ1 had.
And everything other than range that EQ1 had, has been permutated in tons of ways in MUDs. The only real difference is that they were not done so in a highly professional manner like blizzard did.
In a game like EQ1 or WoW I target something and start a spell and the spell hit and does something. In a MUD exactly the same thing happens. The only difference is the range check
In DDO I swing my weapon if it jumps out of the way I miss. There is nothing analogous in a MUD. In DDO I target something with a ray spell like Scorching ray. It shoots a ray, if its moving that ray may miss. That cannot be captured in a MUD. Not really.
Everything in EQ combat is captured by MUD mechanics except range. Casting times, targets, aggro, assist. All of it was in MUDs. And nothing in EQ combat requires anything graphical or 3D or 2D except range. MUDs were and are real-time already so all that is the same. Just look at a combat log and look at MUD it becomes quite apparent.
Why not go back to EverQuest then?
Afterall I think theres no better option for you right now.
I have tried a few muds but I disagree with you and even if it is like a mud who cares! Seriously why are you even comparing the two everquest and mud are completely differant regardless, im pretty sure most of those muds didnt have the content eq1 did nor the lore for that matter.
I loved the game but if you didnt thats fine but no need to keep saying how you think muds are the same thing, and no need to trash the developer honestly. Besides muds copied from pen and paper rpgs in the first place they all get there ideas off each other so even if you where right its pointless because everything is a clone in its own way so stop trying to prove something you cannot.
Why not go back to EverQuest then?
Afterall I think theres no better option for you right now.
Well for starters todays EQ bears no resemblence to the game most of us played. With all the dumbing down and other things SOE has done to the game over the years it is closer to a WOW clone than anything we played. True it has the best raiding, but that is about it.
Secondly its an SOE game many of us won't touch an SOE game with a ten foot pole these days.
to the op: just as another poster said, saga of ryzom is what u are looking for.
You can definitely see all the aspects of a mud in Everquest- especially as it's quite keen on the textual descriptions, and all the mechanics are replicated quite possibly. But, all I am saying is there must have been 'challenges' adopting the Mud to a mmorpg, as well as certain changes. I am curious though what a Diku Mud is like.
I guess thats just not the setting im looking for, sorry could not get into that game. It had all the right features for me but the world I did not like much.