I swear it was said somewhere that they were only getting a slight boost to look a little more heroic and nothing more. And that's what I see here. Were you guys expecting totally different models? I'm seeing quite a lot of overreacting here.
So, the definition of heroic is not more expressive, just bigger arms?
No one is overreacting, the art style of these characters is bad, we were expecting a more expressive version of the lifeless Vanguard characters, not the same characters with bigger biceps...months and months for this?
I m a former Vanguard player, I enjoied the game, but I always had the impression Vanguard would never expand and grow, just get some fixes, and I was right.
Why pay every moth for a game that will never expand? They cant even improve what need to be improved.
Just compare Vanguard charactes with any other MMO, compare these characters with all Vanguard´s monters and creatures, character models were bad and still bad.
No, and I'm not saying they couldn't have done better...because they obviously could have, but it's not that bad. I wish they'd make the animalistic races more...animalistic. But I still don't think it's that bad. Maybe it's because i just don't have a problem with the way the character models currently are, i think they're just fine and pretty nice looking as is, and isn't a game-breaking disaster. And i think the Dark Elves actually do look a bit more expressive than the current ones.
And I dont know about EQ2's models...my iksar always had this chest piece glitch where his chest would show through while moving...it was there at launch and was still there at the beginning of this year...which, EQ2's engine is just painful anyways.
...aren't they also bringing back the customization options?
I'm confused ...the models don't meet everyones expectations.Soooo....do you play a game based on what your character looks like ?
Vanguard is a good game, but still, you're missing the update. When people heard about the character model revamp (which were, and still, are ugly) they expected a "ressurection" of Vanguard. They were beginning to think that SOE cared enough to put time into Vanguard and make it a success.
This update was a dream crusher (for myself and probably others). It is just clear that SOE doesn't care anymore. If these character models were good looking, it would show to me (and others) that SOE is willing to put more time and money into the future of Vangaurd.
Apparently they won't. Until SOE proves otherwise, they will not be seeing my $15.
__________________________________________________ In memory of Laura "Taera" Genender. Passed away on Aug/13/08 - Rest In Peace; you will not be forgotten
No, and I'm not saying they couldn't have done better...because they obviously could have, but it's not that bad. I wish they'd make the animalistic races more...animalistic. But I still don't think it's that bad. Maybe it's because i just don't have a problem with the way the character models currently are, i think they're just fine and pretty nice looking as is, and isn't a game-breaking disaster. And i think the Dark Elves actually do look a bit more expressive than the current ones.
You're looking at the graphics, I am looking past that. I am looking at the future of Vanguard while in SOE's hands, and it doesn't lok good. With this update, it just seems more clear that SOE will not give Vanguard the attention it rightfully deserves. Vanguard has so much potential, but SOE just won't give it the attention it deserves, and this update just proves my point.
__________________________________________________ In memory of Laura "Taera" Genender. Passed away on Aug/13/08 - Rest In Peace; you will not be forgotten
well, maybe this update is not just bringing a whole set of diferent models, but some models improvement and character detail improvement, i mean, the way characters walk and run just seems so fake, so doll like, i hope to see some diference there and besides some minor graphical update i wanna see much better and realistic movement and jumping and animations, etc
GU6 is bringing a lot more than just these models...animations is not one of them though. To see the full details on it, you can check out the fan faire post "http://mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/194983"
I'm confused ...the models don't meet everyones expectations.Soooo....do you play a game based on what your character looks like ?
Vanguard is a good game, but still, you're missing the update. When people heard about the character model revamp (which were, and still, are ugly) they expected a "ressurection" of Vanguard. They were beginning to think that SOE cared enough to put time into Vanguard and make it a success.
This update was a dream crusher (for myself and probably others). It is just clear that SOE doesn't care anymore. If these character models were good looking, it would show to me (and others) that SOE is willing to put more time and money into the future of Vangaurd.
Apparently they won't. Until SOE proves otherwise, they will not be seeing my $15.
Okay I hear you ...to me the toons aren't a big factor in the game but you say it represents a lack of commitment from the Devs to Vanguard
Well this update is going to fix over a 1000 bugs ..so maybe thats what they hoping will be a more important selling point ..also the new Isle of Dawn for beginners and a trial period
I can understand people are disappointed ...a pity it reflects badly on the general state of the game
GU6 is bringing a lot more than just these models...animations is not one of them though. To see the full details on it, you can check out the fan faire post "http://mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/194983"
Seems like they have a fairly dedicated team.
Quoting from the link you have posted:
<-- Quote
(I am attending SoE Fan Faire, and was at both Vanguard panels yesterday.)
First off, there weren't a lot of people present. Certainly not compared to EQ or EQ2's crowds!
SoE is not giving them much of a budget for promoting the game, however. Once the trial island is released, they're going to be relying on player-based viral marketing to get the word out and get new players interested.
Nor should we expect new animations due to the fact that the team doesn't have an animator at this time. So the jump animation still sucks. (ME: that's the most important in an mmorpg : the gameplay -> fun combat with fast and good animations. After more than 1 year they still do nothing for the most important part that can make this game fun to play. AMAZING).
One (????) person is devoted to both Crafting and Diplomacy. ...He has a lot of stuff that he wants to do with both, including getting more content into the game. It just takes time.
There are no plans for expansions. The world structure doesn't really support having content that is locked away unless you buy the expansion. (ME: ??!!??? Sigil & Co had been saying for 1 year that they had an expansion ready for 6 months after launch... ??!??)
Unfortunately, SoE is also a business and will naturally put money where the players are. That means that Vanguard is going to remain the bastard stepchild for as long as the game has low subscriber numbers. It's a Catch-22. They need money to woo in new subscribers, but they can't get a budget for it without enough subs! That means that it ultimately comes down to us, the players to get the word out.
---> /quote
Well, what I see is a dying game. Too bad, it had soo much potential.
The 'newer' looking models look even more plastic-like than the older ones that got retouched. Overall it's a pretty big disappointment. They all look either crappy or the same as before.
New models were all about better appearance and heroic expressivity.(devs said that)
Performance thing? Everyone can run Vanguard today...
Spoiled by AOC? You just need to compare these models with Warhammer, Aion, Lineage 2, Everquest 2, The Agency, COH , Guild Wars and AOC to realise they are lifeless and totally non heroic.
Well, they probably didnt say anything about the female armor because it looks very bad, they just cutted the arms and belly, no art at all.
No Eugam, sorry, but you are wrong... New models were all about better appearance and heroic expressivity.(devs said that) Performance thing? Everyone can run Vanguard today... Spoiled by AOC? You just need to compare these models with Warhammer, Aion, Lineage 2, Everquest 2, The Agency, COH , Guild Wars and AOC to realise they are lifeless and totally non heroic. Well, they probably didnt say anything about the female armor because it looks very bad, they just cutted the arms and belly, no art at all.
No actually I think youre wrong. I just tried for 15 minutes to find some dev quote on the VG forum and I found nothing. As I hate the search there and my internet is totally slow today (someone killed the oversea cable?) Im giving up. Only thing I found so far is this:
There are 3 separate areas that have been confirmed to be "in the works", but they've also been confirmed to NOT be the same project. All of them are supposedly close to release (close being within the next 3-5 months) and may or may not be rolled out together.
The first one is the new Isle of Dawn, which is a newbie starter island, which will allow new players to have a more interactive and exciting experience the first time they load up the game. Other than the name I don't know much about it such as how many levels it will involve, where we will be sent to after we're finished with it or even if they're going to revamp the current starter zones since they'll be obsolete if everyone gets from 1-10 on the newbie island. Either way, there is a lot of movement on it, and should be released soon-ish.
Second is the Character Model Revamp. Way back in the beta I guess there were a ton of character appearance options that were removed from the game shortly before launch, leaving a very lackluster character creation screen. SoE has confirmed they are updating it and that work is "coming along nicely" but to my knowledge nobody has seen any of the new models nor have we heard any rumors of a tentative release date.
Last is the next Game Update Patch...GU6. I don't believe any specifics have been given out on what it will contain, but my assumption is that it will contain the Combat fix. My understanding is that the Combat "fix" is just that, a fix to correct a multiplier bug that's been in-game since release. It won't be anywhere near as drastic as the SWG CU, but I'm sure there are a lot of people that will feel that they were nerfed. You can read the official explanation of it on the general forums, but here's a link to the post: http://forums.station.sony.com/vg/p..._id=31466 The only tentative timeline we've been given is "way before Christmas" so I believe most people are expecting to see GU6 hit the game somewhere in the September time-frame, but that's all speculation.
So those are the 3 major areas that are being worked on right now...and from what I've been able to find trying to research them that's about the most information anyone outside of SOE has on their particular details. We could see one or all of them in-game within the next few weeks, but then again we may not see any of them until closer to 2009, only time (or Silius) will have the answer.
So would be nice if you provide a link with a dev quote of heroic appearance. Else stfu.
About "everyone can run VG today" here, www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/195679 tell the same to this guy. Page a bit around and you find more than enough posts with similar topics. The AoC requirements are over the top just like the VG ones last year were. One of the reasons why WoW sells so much is that everyone can run it.
About lifeless and non-heroic. Honestly the moment someone says something about "heroic appearance" its a 90% hit that this guy is an AoC player. Funcom advertisment did a really good job...The female char customization in AoC was IMHO pretty bad. You had one good looking cimmerian model and a stygian one. All the other female ones creeped me out. The male ones on the other hand were beautiful. In the end you either like artdesign of a game or you dont like it. I personally prefer asia style and I will check out Aion. You mentioned some games, but you didnt mentioned Perfect World. Thats the game I know with the best charcustomization. See for yourself, international version started yesterday, its worth a download. Its a 4 year old game btw.
They are definitely an improvement, but not as much as some had hoped. It's much easier to notice the difference by logging into Test and seeing it directly.
So would be nice if you provide a link with a dev quote of heroic appearance. Else stfu. <snip>
From the test server release notes:
Character Model Revamp
Player character models in Vanguard have undergone a bit of a revamp. Not only have they been optimized for better performance but they have been given a new, updated look. The revamped models are now capable of looking much more heroic and contain a lot more personality. Worry not though, for those players who don’t necessarily want the heroic look, no customization options have gone away. In fact, we are reintroducing lots of facial customization as well.
So would be nice if you provide a link with a dev quote of heroic appearance. Else stfu. <snip>
From the test server release notes:
Character Model Revamp
Player character models in Vanguard have undergone a bit of a revamp. Not only have they been optimized for better performance but they have been given a new, updated look. The revamped models are now capable of looking much more heroic and contain a lot more personality. Worry not though, for those players who don’t necessarily want the heroic look, no customization options have gone away. In fact, we are reintroducing lots of facial customization as well.
The models are more heroic and have less polys. The female models are more sexy as well. So we got a change that looks better and improves performance when a large number of players are onscreen. So while we can argue about what is heroic or if enough was done etc... What we won't argue about is whether players how have better customization, better character proportions, and better performance. So players do have another significant improvement with this upgrade.
Now if you can look at a screen shot and go uck that looks aweful then so beit you are entitled to your opinion. Keep in mind however that you now have more control over the appears then you did in gu5 and you are just looking at one persons representation of what they want their character to look like.
Comments
So, the definition of heroic is not more expressive, just bigger arms?
No one is overreacting, the art style of these characters is bad, we were expecting a more expressive version of the lifeless Vanguard characters, not the same characters with bigger biceps...months and months for this?
I m a former Vanguard player, I enjoied the game, but I always had the impression Vanguard would never expand and grow, just get some fixes, and I was right.
Why pay every moth for a game that will never expand? They cant even improve what need to be improved.
Just compare Vanguard charactes with any other MMO, compare these characters with all Vanguard´s monters and creatures, character models were bad and still bad.
...
No, and I'm not saying they couldn't have done better...because they obviously could have, but it's not that bad. I wish they'd make the animalistic races more...animalistic. But I still don't think it's that bad. Maybe it's because i just don't have a problem with the way the character models currently are, i think they're just fine and pretty nice looking as is, and isn't a game-breaking disaster. And i think the Dark Elves actually do look a bit more expressive than the current ones.
And I dont know about EQ2's models...my iksar always had this chest piece glitch where his chest would show through while moving...it was there at launch and was still there at the beginning of this year...which, EQ2's engine is just painful anyways.
...aren't they also bringing back the customization options?
Vanguard is a good game, but still, you're missing the update. When people heard about the character model revamp (which were, and still, are ugly) they expected a "ressurection" of Vanguard. They were beginning to think that SOE cared enough to put time into Vanguard and make it a success.
This update was a dream crusher (for myself and probably others). It is just clear that SOE doesn't care anymore. If these character models were good looking, it would show to me (and others) that SOE is willing to put more time and money into the future of Vangaurd.
Apparently they won't. Until SOE proves otherwise, they will not be seeing my $15.
__________________________________________________
In memory of Laura "Taera" Genender. Passed away on Aug/13/08 - Rest In Peace; you will not be forgotten
You're looking at the graphics, I am looking past that. I am looking at the future of Vanguard while in SOE's hands, and it doesn't lok good. With this update, it just seems more clear that SOE will not give Vanguard the attention it rightfully deserves. Vanguard has so much potential, but SOE just won't give it the attention it deserves, and this update just proves my point.
__________________________________________________
In memory of Laura "Taera" Genender. Passed away on Aug/13/08 - Rest In Peace; you will not be forgotten
This kinds reminds me of the Strongbad e-mail where he creates the S is for Sux dragon.
"Then you add some legs. Throw on a couple of arms. Then you . . . whoa. I think I need to start over."
well, maybe this update is not just bringing a whole set of diferent models, but some models improvement and character detail improvement, i mean, the way characters walk and run just seems so fake, so doll like, i hope to see some diference there and besides some minor graphical update i wanna see much better and realistic movement and jumping and animations, etc
GU6 is bringing a lot more than just these models...animations is not one of them though. To see the full details on it, you can check out the fan faire post "http://mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/194983"
Seems like they have a fairly dedicated team.
Yes they are. I thougth that was the biggest thing.
I'm so broke. I can't even pay attention.
"You have the right not to be killed"
Vanguard is a good game, but still, you're missing the update. When people heard about the character model revamp (which were, and still, are ugly) they expected a "ressurection" of Vanguard. They were beginning to think that SOE cared enough to put time into Vanguard and make it a success.
This update was a dream crusher (for myself and probably others). It is just clear that SOE doesn't care anymore. If these character models were good looking, it would show to me (and others) that SOE is willing to put more time and money into the future of Vangaurd.
Apparently they won't. Until SOE proves otherwise, they will not be seeing my $15.
Okay I hear you ...to me the toons aren't a big factor in the game but you say it represents a lack of commitment from the Devs to Vanguard
Well this update is going to fix over a 1000 bugs ..so maybe thats what they hoping will be a more important selling point ..also the new Isle of Dawn for beginners and a trial period
I can understand people are disappointed ...a pity it reflects badly on the general state of the game
"after the time of dice came the day of mice "
Quoting from the link you have posted:
<-- Quote
(I am attending SoE Fan Faire, and was at both Vanguard panels yesterday.)
First off, there weren't a lot of people present. Certainly not compared to EQ or EQ2's crowds!
SoE is not giving them much of a budget for promoting the game, however. Once the trial island is released, they're going to be relying on player-based viral marketing to get the word out and get new players interested.
Nor should we expect new animations due to the fact that the team doesn't have an animator at this time. So the jump animation still sucks. (ME: that's the most important in an mmorpg : the gameplay -> fun combat with fast and good animations. After more than 1 year they still do nothing for the most important part that can make this game fun to play. AMAZING).
One (????) person is devoted to both Crafting and Diplomacy. ...He has a lot of stuff that he wants to do with both, including getting more content into the game. It just takes time.
There are no plans for expansions. The world structure doesn't really support having content that is locked away unless you buy the expansion. (ME: ??!!??? Sigil & Co had been saying for 1 year that they had an expansion ready for 6 months after launch... ??!??)
Unfortunately, SoE is also a business and will naturally put money where the players are. That means that Vanguard is going to remain the bastard stepchild for as long as the game has low subscriber numbers. It's a Catch-22. They need money to woo in new subscribers, but they can't get a budget for it without enough subs! That means that it ultimately comes down to us, the players to get the word out.
---> /quote
Well, what I see is a dying game. Too bad, it had soo much potential.
The 'newer' looking models look even more plastic-like than the older ones that got retouched. Overall it's a pretty big disappointment. They all look either crappy or the same as before.
Ugh I was hoping for the kind of complete overhaul that SOGA models brought to EQ2. This is just what CoH lets you do with sliders.
Another missed opportunity. Too bad.
That sucks. I was hoping for something better. Maybe it'll improve performance, but they still look awful.
The funny thing is that most say "they look same or worse". Well, if they look the same and performance is better than its a good update.
Sounds like hype struck some people and they are now back with both feet at the floor.
what did you guys expect?
completely new char models for all of them.
the models look really good.
they have a sleeker updated oblivion esque feel to them which is great.
the models have a much better look and seem more alive.
Err... looks the same than before. I dont like it that they have so broad shoulders all of them.
LOL, where do all those posters suddenly come from ? Spoiled by AoC ? (which is very understandable)
The model revamp was never anything else then a performance thing. I like it and the game is heading into the right direction.
Oh.. tentonhammer didnt mention the new female armors
No Eugam, sorry, but you are wrong...
New models were all about better appearance and heroic expressivity.(devs said that)
Performance thing? Everyone can run Vanguard today...
Spoiled by AOC? You just need to compare these models with Warhammer, Aion, Lineage 2, Everquest 2, The Agency, COH , Guild Wars and AOC to realise they are lifeless and totally non heroic.
Well, they probably didnt say anything about the female armor because it looks very bad, they just cutted the arms and belly, no art at all.
Do you still belive Vanguard will have a future?
...
Well, finally you can make a good looking female woodelf!
Many sliders and options are back.
When I first saw that link I was disappointed but than I logged into beta to see for myself, and there is huge improvement!
You can tweek and play around until your character looks pretty decent and A LOT better than before.
So I am happy.
img47.imageshack.us/img47/7249/woodelfjl1.jpg
i miss the original EQ models, female dwarfs most of all theres nothing better than short woman with a beard
i was hoping that they would bring back the massive eyebrows on the gnomes
No actually I think youre wrong. I just tried for 15 minutes to find some dev quote on the VG forum and I found nothing. As I hate the search there and my internet is totally slow today (someone killed the oversea cable?) Im giving up. Only thing I found so far is this:
There are 3 separate areas that have been confirmed to be "in the works", but they've also been confirmed to NOT be the same project. All of them are supposedly close to release (close being within the next 3-5 months) and may or may not be rolled out together.
The first one is the new Isle of Dawn, which is a newbie starter island, which will allow new players to have a more interactive and exciting experience the first time they load up the game. Other than the name I don't know much about it such as how many levels it will involve, where we will be sent to after we're finished with it or even if they're going to revamp the current starter zones since they'll be obsolete if everyone gets from 1-10 on the newbie island. Either way, there is a lot of movement on it, and should be released soon-ish.
Second is the Character Model Revamp. Way back in the beta I guess there were a ton of character appearance options that were removed from the game shortly before launch, leaving a very lackluster character creation screen. SoE has confirmed they are updating it and that work is "coming along nicely" but to my knowledge nobody has seen any of the new models nor have we heard any rumors of a tentative release date.
Last is the next Game Update Patch...GU6. I don't believe any specifics have been given out on what it will contain, but my assumption is that it will contain the Combat fix. My understanding is that the Combat "fix" is just that, a fix to correct a multiplier bug that's been in-game since release. It won't be anywhere near as drastic as the SWG CU, but I'm sure there are a lot of people that will feel that they were nerfed. You can read the official explanation of it on the general forums, but here's a link to the post: http://forums.station.sony.com/vg/p..._id=31466 The only tentative timeline we've been given is "way before Christmas" so I believe most people are expecting to see GU6 hit the game somewhere in the September time-frame, but that's all speculation.
So those are the 3 major areas that are being worked on right now...and from what I've been able to find trying to research them that's about the most information anyone outside of SOE has on their particular details. We could see one or all of them in-game within the next few weeks, but then again we may not see any of them until closer to 2009, only time (or Silius) will have the answer.
So would be nice if you provide a link with a dev quote of heroic appearance. Else stfu.
About "everyone can run VG today" here, www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/195679 tell the same to this guy. Page a bit around and you find more than enough posts with similar topics. The AoC requirements are over the top just like the VG ones last year were. One of the reasons why WoW sells so much is that everyone can run it.
About lifeless and non-heroic. Honestly the moment someone says something about "heroic appearance" its a 90% hit that this guy is an AoC player. Funcom advertisment did a really good job...The female char customization in AoC was IMHO pretty bad. You had one good looking cimmerian model and a stygian one. All the other female ones creeped me out. The male ones on the other hand were beautiful. In the end you either like artdesign of a game or you dont like it. I personally prefer asia style and I will check out Aion. You mentioned some games, but you didnt mentioned Perfect World. Thats the game I know with the best charcustomization. See for yourself, international version started yesterday, its worth a download. Its a 4 year old game btw.
Do you still belive Vanguard will have a future?
Coming from an AoC player...
They are definitely an improvement, but not as much as some had hoped. It's much easier to notice the difference by logging into Test and seeing it directly.
From the test server release notes:
Character Model Revamp
Player character models in Vanguard have undergone a bit of a revamp. Not only have they been optimized for better performance but they have been given a new, updated look. The revamped models are now capable of looking much more heroic and contain a lot more personality. Worry not though, for those players who don’t necessarily want the heroic look, no customization options have gone away. In fact, we are reintroducing lots of facial customization as well.
Life of an MMORPG "addict"
For 7 years, proving that if you quote "fuck" you won't get banned.
From the test server release notes:
Character Model Revamp
Player character models in Vanguard have undergone a bit of a revamp. Not only have they been optimized for better performance but they have been given a new, updated look. The revamped models are now capable of looking much more heroic and contain a lot more personality. Worry not though, for those players who don’t necessarily want the heroic look, no customization options have gone away. In fact, we are reintroducing lots of facial customization as well.
The models are more heroic and have less polys. The female models are more sexy as well. So we got a change that looks better and improves performance when a large number of players are onscreen. So while we can argue about what is heroic or if enough was done etc... What we won't argue about is whether players how have better customization, better character proportions, and better performance. So players do have another significant improvement with this upgrade.
Now if you can look at a screen shot and go uck that looks aweful then so beit you are entitled to your opinion. Keep in mind however that you now have more control over the appears then you did in gu5 and you are just looking at one persons representation of what they want their character to look like.
---
Ethion