Well then all is cool and SWG will revive for sure !
Unles his Son 1st mmo was WoW and he thinks SWG isnt wowified enough
greetz
If you are interested in subscription or PCU numbers for MMORPG's, check out my site : http://mmodata.blogspot.be/ Favorite MMORPG's : DAoC pre ToA-NF, SWG Pre CU-NGE, EVE Online
11) LucasArts and SOE (i.e. management) are deeply committed to supporting our dev team. They would not comment on any other licensing, but George Lucas' son plays SWG and enjoys it a lot. Therefore George is interested in making sure the game suceeds (in theory)
Looks like I will be around for awhile then - oh it has its joys at time. Here is an interaction with a SOE Admin - Priceless.
Wow, someone employed by SOE isn't a complete ass (Bixiebopper)! That was very unexpected. Valara was more than a little pissy.
Yeah, I liked the part about the 213 empty seats and "Did Smedley forget to shower?" part, then Bixie saying it was pretty packed.
I found it interesting that Bixiebopper responded with good humor, while Valara jumped in with a pissy response. It is sad that a forum admin is much better a interacting with the public than the folks who are hired to do so.
Edit:
Actually, I take that all back. I didn't notice that Bixiebopper is actually Brenlo, so I'll have to assume he is on some sort of medication, since him not being a complete ass is very rare. Whatever he is on, he should use it much more often.
So you're saying the son of the founder of the of the IP is making business decisions that directly effect the finances of not only LA but SOE too? Hmmm...this may be true; it explains a lot.
He obviously wasn't playing before Nov 2005 because otherwise, when he saw the NGE, he'd have got his dad to force-choke Mr. Smedley in front of the entire Dev team until they got the idea of just how unpopular gthe new changes were.
Funny, in a way. So much time and trouble spent by SOE in making SWG 'simpler' and now it's one of the jokes of the MMO world. Meanwhile, Vanguard which has largely been left to die by SOE is actually gaining subs as its tiny little team add more and more lustre to a deep, rich and sophisticated game.
Plus it was confirmed today at SOE fan Fair by Blixtev that the Bioware/LEC/EA Kotor game will not be a MMO, what it will be is like what Diablo 2 is now (from an online point of view). You can do the content solo, or team up in groups to do the directed content. Consider that people at SOE are far more likely to know than say, you. Considering a lot of Bioware Austin IS ex-SOE.
This is interesting. Do you have any links or further detail?
Oh, and I do counsel you not to put any faith in what SOE developers and producers say about MMOs, especially those put out by competors. As we know from the non-implementation of Jedi at launch to the 'bait and switch' of the Mustaphar expansion, SOE's marketing and technical executives are chronic if clumsy liars. So, funnily enough, yes. 'you' are far more likely to know the truth about the Bioware game than any SOE personality does.
From the fan fair today, here is this: 11) LucasArts and SOE (i.e. management) are deeply committed to supporting our dev team. They would not comment on any other licensing, but George Lucas' son plays SWG and enjoys it a lot. Therefore George is interested in making sure the game suceeds (in theory)
Looks like I will be around for awhile then - oh it has its joys at time. Here is an interaction with a SOE Admin - Priceless.
Here is an expansion of the first post that goes into more detail from an attendee:
Both the associate producer and producer from the lucas arts team were at the galactic assembly, jneri and neif on the forums. The appropriately tough question was asked, namely, with all the mmo's out there and more importantly the upcoming title from bioware that everyone suspects is a kotor mmo, how committed is lucas arts to making this game suceed.
The half question asked with that hard one was does George Lucas himself ever log in.
Naturally, they would not comment on anything LA may be doing with Bioware. But they did say that their presence at the assembly is a testament to the desire that LA has for this game to suceed. SWG is not going away next year, period. They have even given more freedom to the design team, so we get things like Galactic Moon Festival, Hoth, etc etc.
Plus, the fact the GL's son plays means that there is top-level involvement in making sure this isn't a failure. Jake Neri gets emails from GL's son on a regular basis about the game. That tells me something. It reassures me, to some extent, that the resources (namely capital) that our great design team needs will not be diverted from swg to fuel any rumored kotor mmo.
Does that mean i plan on giving them complete leeway? of course not. They need to be accountable for the promises they've made and the statements they've made. I know this community does a good job of reminding the devs of their shortcomings. What I do not see is enough people realizing exactly how much they have done. Remember folks, the prior dev team LAUGHED at us during the april 2006 summits when we suggested vehicle combat. Now, thanks to BM and heroics, we now have the tech to be able to do this.
I don't mean to be rude but are you getting paid for this? I mean, the 'our great design team' comment simply could not be made with a straight-face by even the loyalist fanboi. You must be one of those clumsy non-English speaking viral marketeers we hear that SOE is employing, no?
From the fan fair today, here is this: 11) LucasArts and SOE (i.e. management) are deeply committed to supporting our dev team. They would not comment on any other licensing, but George Lucas' son plays SWG and enjoys it a lot. Therefore George is interested in making sure the game suceeds (in theory)
Originally posted by Gutboy From the fan fair today, here is this: 11) LucasArts and SOE (i.e. management) are deeply committed to supporting our dev team. They would not comment on any other licensing, but George Lucas' son plays SWG and enjoys it a lot. Therefore George is interested in making sure the game suceeds (in theory)
So the whole reason it's still around is because of Lucas' son? I wasn't aware he had a son (with either Griffon or Hobson).
EDIT: Seems he has a son (Jett Lucas), so we should expect Lucas to fund the game and the loses its causes SOE to run the game, for a 15 year old boy?
11) LucasArts and SOE (i.e. management) are deeply committed to supporting our dev team. They would not comment on any other licensing, but George Lucas' son plays SWG and enjoys it a lot. Therefore George is interested in making sure the game suceeds (in theory)
So the whole reason it's still around is because of Lucas' son? I wasn't aware he had a son (with either Griffon or Hobson).
EDIT: Seems he has a son (Jett Lucas), so we should expect Lucas to fund the game and the loses its causes SOE to run the game, for a 15 year old boy?
Jett Lucas was in Episodes II and III, actually. He's the young Jedi with the librarian who tells Obi-Wan that Kamino doesn't exist in AOTC, and he's the padawan that gets offed by clone troopers in front of Jimmy Smits in ROTS.
So I started to walk into the water. I won't lie to you boys...I was terrified. But I pressed on, and as I made my way past the breakers, a strange calm came over me. I don't know if it was divine intervention or the kinship of all living things, but I tell you, Jerry, at that moment ... I was a marine biologist.
Come on now everyone, you guys need to cut Gutboy a break here. People from SOE that are desperate to keep their jobs said so at a rabid carebear fanboy meet - how could you let the possibility that it wasn't true even cross your minds??? After all it's not like SOE has a long and storied track record of consistently saying things (wether it be at a fanboy convention or just in general announcements) that weren't even remotely close to being true. I mean you guys act like SOE tried to commit fraud on their customers in the recent past or something. How you all could *POSSIBLY* think they were lying is just beyond me.....
From the fan fair today, here is this: 11) LucasArts and SOE (i.e. management) are deeply committed to supporting our dev team. They would not comment on any other licensing, but George Lucas' son plays SWG and enjoys it a lot. Therefore George is interested in making sure the game suceeds (in theory)
Well that explains why SWG was and continues to get dumb down!
Wouldnt SOE employees get in trouble from LA for leaking unannounced info? Just asking..I have no idea how that stuff works.
LucasArts were part of the panels, they would have been there when Blixtev said that.
Oh i didnt know it was said so everyone could hear..thought it was something "off the record". Why arent any of the gaming media running with it then?
I have no idea when it was said, I wasn't there. If it was said at the panel, then LA would have known it was said and would have had the chance to correct/interject it
Wouldnt SOE employees get in trouble from LA for leaking unannounced info? Just asking..I have no idea how that stuff works.
LucasArts were part of the panels, they would have been there when Blixtev said that.
Oh i didnt know it was said so everyone could hear..thought it was something "off the record". Why arent any of the gaming media running with it then?
I have no idea when it was said, I wasn't there. If it was said at the panel, then LA would have known it was said and would have had the chance to correct/interject it
Hmm ..maybe someone should post on the Bioware boards that a dude at SOE is spilling info on one of their games. Could be fun.
See you in the dream.. The Fires from heaven, now as cold as ice. A rapid ascension tolls a heavy price.
From the fan fair today, here is this: 11) LucasArts and SOE (i.e. management) are deeply committed to supporting our dev team. They would not comment on any other licensing, but George Lucas' son plays SWG and enjoys it a lot. Therefore George is interested in making sure the game suceeds (in theory)
Do I want SWG to go away? No, that would be an oversimplification of my point of view. Do I want it to work well? For the sake of my friends that play, yes. I'd also like the marketting to consistently reflect the current state of the game, and the future plans SOE and LEC have for it. I'd also still like those who got burned by misleading advertising (re. profession revamps and ToOW features) to be fully compensated--all sub time paid beyond Nov. 15/05 refunded, not because the game was changed, but as an apology for misleading marketting.
These have always been my goals. I hope young Lucas enjoys himself, that he doesn't encounter a lot of frustration, and that he doesn't work on things only to have them broken or removed at some point with little or no warning.
I'd like SWG to be a good experience for people still willing to do business with SOE. For those of us that aren't, it would be nice to have another StarWars MMO available.
Having said all of that, if SOE continues to release buggy updates, if they don't fix the things they've said they would, if they continue to say one thing to their customers and then do the opposite, then I'd sooner see someone else running SWG if it is to remain.
From the fan fair today, here is this: 11) LucasArts and SOE (i.e. management) are deeply committed to supporting our dev team. They would not comment on any other licensing, but George Lucas' son plays SWG and enjoys it a lot. Therefore George is interested in making sure the game suceeds (in theory)
Do I want SWG to go away? No, that would be an oversimplification of my point of view. Do I want it to work well? For the sake of my friends that play, yes. I'd also like the marketting to consistently reflect the current state of the game, and the future plans SOE and LEC have for it. I'd also still like those who got burned by misleading advertising (re. profession revamps and ToOW features) to be fully compensated--all sub time paid beyond Nov. 15/05 refunded, not because the game was changed, but as an apology for misleading marketting.
These have always been my goals. I hope young Lucas enjoys himself, that he doesn't encounter a lot of frustration, and that he doesn't work on things only to have them broken or removed at some point with little or no warning.
I'd like SWG to be a good experience for people still willing to do business with SOE. For those of us that aren't, it would be nice to have another StarWars MMO available.
Having said all of that, if SOE continues to release buggy updates, if they don't fix the things they've said they would, if they continue to say one thing to their customers and then do the opposite, then I'd sooner see someone else running SWG if it is to remain.
Excellant post.
SOE and LA seems to shoot themselves in the foot every time. From outright lies to all the many CHANGES and different games that SWG has been.
I seriously doubt blixtev would have made a comment on biowares new MMO. This theroy was posted about many times on the SWG boards and seems to be the responce of choice by people defending SWG against a new Star Wars MMO. Blixtev is supposedly "in the business" and should know what a "NDA" is about.
But, on the other hand, nothing would surprise me about blix anylonger. The guy just seems to have business suicidal tendancies.
Well, there are venereal diseases that keep on lingering around, so why not SWG?
"I have only two out of my company and 20 out of some other company. We need support, but it is almost suicide to try to get it here as we are swept by machine gun fire and a constant barrage is on us. I have no one on my left and only a few on my right. I will hold." (First Lieutenant Clifton B. Cates, US Marine Corps, Soissons, 19 July 1918)
From the fan fair today, here is this: 11) LucasArts and SOE (i.e. management) are deeply committed to supporting our dev team. They would not comment on any other licensing, but George Lucas' son plays SWG and enjoys it a lot. Therefore George is interested in making sure the game suceeds (in theory)
LOL! Keep thousands of potential players away to satisfy GL's son and few other teenage jedi wanabe's.
Again I was just struck by the title of this thread. Why?
It seems to suggest that all veteran players are bent on having SWG close down. That is simply a very untrue overgeneralization. It paints veteran players as somehow the enemy of current players who want to just enjoy their game. It's divisive, and this game certainly doesn't need anything more to divide its playerbase.
Let me be clear that many, probably most, veteran players do not want to see current players lose their game. This is certainly the case with many vets whose posts I read here, and it's also true of my former SWG guildmates that keep in touch via our own forum. That's one reason I continue to be surprised at the animosity and spin-doctoring I see on these boards at times, by the way. In our guild forum, current and former players talk about SWG, WoW, CoH and other events all the time without trying to misrepresent each other, misrepresent any game, or vent hostility on one another. It just isn't necessary, or helpful in my view.
So what do most veteran players seem to want?
Well, many I interact with would really love to see important bugs fixed, especially those that SOE said they would fix, but haven't. Who wouldn't want that??
Many also want to see SOE respect ingame progress. They're tired of seeing their ingame accomplishments go by the wayside with new publishes, and they're tired of relearning the game. Who wouldn't want their progress to be respected??
Many also want to see SOE follow through on promises to address the low population servers. Who wouldn't want to see that??
Some would like classic servers because they really enjoyed the original format of the game. It might also feel that they were being given back something that was taken from them. I don't have a desire for this currently, but I recongize that others still do. Again, this seems quite resonable to me, and doesn't take anything away from current players at all.
For myself, I'd also still like to see some subscription refunds for those that were specifically misled by pre-NGE dev chats in Sept. and Oct. 05 that failed to mention anything about the NGE. Instead they promised things to specific professions (squad leader, ranger and creature handler) that either never materialized or only lasted for 12 days, specifically because of the NGE. This is simply a stand against false advertising. Is anyone in favour of false advertising??
So, the OP doesn't need to apologize to "vets" for the continuation of SWG. If apologies need to be made, and if fences need mending, this is not the best approach in my mind. The points listed above might suggest a more fruitful way forward.
I'm sure this game will never go away, this is my opinion. Is because more and more this game becomes a sandbox and heads towards casual players. There's only about a 11.3% chance that this game will become F2P also. So even in 2yrs this game will be here. They may have to do some major changes to catch up with advancing the engine, graphics etc. But I'm sure it will probably never die...I never read a post on this thread so if it is basically the same thing the OP said, my bad.
Comments
Oooh so his son is playing ...
Well then all is cool and SWG will revive for sure !
Unles his Son 1st mmo was WoW and he thinks SWG isnt wowified enough
greetz
If you are interested in subscription or PCU numbers for MMORPG's, check out my site :
http://mmodata.blogspot.be/
Favorite MMORPG's : DAoC pre ToA-NF, SWG Pre CU-NGE, EVE Online
Looks like I will be around for awhile then - oh it has its joys at time. Here is an interaction with a SOE Admin - Priceless.
forums.station.sony.com/station/posts/list.m
Love that Jestor , SOE does!
Wow, someone employed by SOE isn't a complete ass (Bixiebopper)! That was very unexpected. Valara was more than a little pissy.
Yeah, I liked the part about the 213 empty seats and "Did Smedley forget to shower?" part, then Bixie saying it was pretty packed.
I found it interesting that Bixiebopper responded with good humor, while Valara jumped in with a pissy response. It is sad that a forum admin is much better a interacting with the public than the folks who are hired to do so.
Edit:
Actually, I take that all back. I didn't notice that Bixiebopper is actually Brenlo, so I'll have to assume he is on some sort of medication, since him not being a complete ass is very rare. Whatever he is on, he should use it much more often.
He obviously wasn't playing before Nov 2005 because otherwise, when he saw the NGE, he'd have got his dad to force-choke Mr. Smedley in front of the entire Dev team until they got the idea of just how unpopular gthe new changes were.
Funny, in a way. So much time and trouble spent by SOE in making SWG 'simpler' and now it's one of the jokes of the MMO world. Meanwhile, Vanguard which has largely been left to die by SOE is actually gaining subs as its tiny little team add more and more lustre to a deep, rich and sophisticated game.
This is interesting. Do you have any links or further detail?
Oh, and I do counsel you not to put any faith in what SOE developers and producers say about MMOs, especially those put out by competors. As we know from the non-implementation of Jedi at launch to the 'bait and switch' of the Mustaphar expansion, SOE's marketing and technical executives are chronic if clumsy liars. So, funnily enough, yes. 'you' are far more likely to know the truth about the Bioware game than any SOE personality does.
Looks like I will be around for awhile then - oh it has its joys at time. Here is an interaction with a SOE Admin - Priceless.
forums.station.sony.com/station/posts/list.m
Love that Jestor , SOE does!
He he! More priceless jestor moments!
I don't mean to be rude but are you getting paid for this? I mean, the 'our great design team' comment simply could not be made with a straight-face by even the loyalist fanboi. You must be one of those clumsy non-English speaking viral marketeers we hear that SOE is employing, no?
http://www.gamasutra.com/view/feature/2469/postcard_how_to_manage_a_.php
I'm sorry I have to ask this...Gutboy, are you George Lucas junior ?
so when is that ranger revamp coming?
EDIT: Seems he has a son (Jett Lucas), so we should expect Lucas to fund the game and the loses its causes SOE to run the game, for a 15 year old boy?
EDIT: Seems he has a son (Jett Lucas), so we should expect Lucas to fund the game and the loses its causes SOE to run the game, for a 15 year old boy?
Jett Lucas was in Episodes II and III, actually. He's the young Jedi with the librarian who tells Obi-Wan that Kamino doesn't exist in AOTC, and he's the padawan that gets offed by clone troopers in front of Jimmy Smits in ROTS.
So I started to walk into the water. I won't lie to you boys...I was terrified. But I pressed on, and as I made my way past the breakers, a strange calm came over me. I don't know if it was divine intervention or the kinship of all living things, but I tell you, Jerry, at that moment ... I was a marine biologist.
Come on now everyone, you guys need to cut Gutboy a break here. People from SOE that are desperate to keep their jobs said so at a rabid carebear fanboy meet - how could you let the possibility that it wasn't true even cross your minds??? After all it's not like SOE has a long and storied track record of consistently saying things (wether it be at a fanboy convention or just in general announcements) that weren't even remotely close to being true. I mean you guys act like SOE tried to commit fraud on their customers in the recent past or something. How you all could *POSSIBLY* think they were lying is just beyond me.....
If you notice I start my comments like this:
Originally posted by Gutboy
I have copied part of a post from someone who was actually in attendance at Fan Fair. The words are his not mine.
Here is an expansion of the first post that goes into more detail from an attendee:
Wouldnt SOE employees get in trouble from LA for leaking unannounced info? Just asking..I have no idea how that stuff works.
See you in the dream..
The Fires from heaven, now as cold as ice. A rapid ascension tolls a heavy price.
Yes, they would. NDAs are typically very broad, so that they cover any inside trade secrets (which any information about BioWare's MMO would be).
LucasArts were part of the panels, they would have been there when Blixtev said that.
Well that explains why SWG was and continues to get dumb down!
LucasArts were part of the panels, they would have been there when Blixtev said that.
Oh i didnt know it was said so everyone could hear..thought it was something "off the record". Why arent any of the gaming media running with it then?
See you in the dream..
The Fires from heaven, now as cold as ice. A rapid ascension tolls a heavy price.
LucasArts were part of the panels, they would have been there when Blixtev said that.
Oh i didnt know it was said so everyone could hear..thought it was something "off the record". Why arent any of the gaming media running with it then?
I have no idea when it was said, I wasn't there. If it was said at the panel, then LA would have known it was said and would have had the chance to correct/interject it
LucasArts were part of the panels, they would have been there when Blixtev said that.
Oh i didnt know it was said so everyone could hear..thought it was something "off the record". Why arent any of the gaming media running with it then?
I have no idea when it was said, I wasn't there. If it was said at the panel, then LA would have known it was said and would have had the chance to correct/interject it
Hmm ..maybe someone should post on the Bioware boards that a dude at SOE is spilling info on one of their games. Could be fun.
See you in the dream..
The Fires from heaven, now as cold as ice. A rapid ascension tolls a heavy price.
Do I want SWG to go away? No, that would be an oversimplification of my point of view. Do I want it to work well? For the sake of my friends that play, yes. I'd also like the marketting to consistently reflect the current state of the game, and the future plans SOE and LEC have for it. I'd also still like those who got burned by misleading advertising (re. profession revamps and ToOW features) to be fully compensated--all sub time paid beyond Nov. 15/05 refunded, not because the game was changed, but as an apology for misleading marketting.
These have always been my goals. I hope young Lucas enjoys himself, that he doesn't encounter a lot of frustration, and that he doesn't work on things only to have them broken or removed at some point with little or no warning.
I'd like SWG to be a good experience for people still willing to do business with SOE. For those of us that aren't, it would be nice to have another StarWars MMO available.
Having said all of that, if SOE continues to release buggy updates, if they don't fix the things they've said they would, if they continue to say one thing to their customers and then do the opposite, then I'd sooner see someone else running SWG if it is to remain.
Do I want SWG to go away? No, that would be an oversimplification of my point of view. Do I want it to work well? For the sake of my friends that play, yes. I'd also like the marketting to consistently reflect the current state of the game, and the future plans SOE and LEC have for it. I'd also still like those who got burned by misleading advertising (re. profession revamps and ToOW features) to be fully compensated--all sub time paid beyond Nov. 15/05 refunded, not because the game was changed, but as an apology for misleading marketting.
These have always been my goals. I hope young Lucas enjoys himself, that he doesn't encounter a lot of frustration, and that he doesn't work on things only to have them broken or removed at some point with little or no warning.
I'd like SWG to be a good experience for people still willing to do business with SOE. For those of us that aren't, it would be nice to have another StarWars MMO available.
Having said all of that, if SOE continues to release buggy updates, if they don't fix the things they've said they would, if they continue to say one thing to their customers and then do the opposite, then I'd sooner see someone else running SWG if it is to remain.
Excellant post.
SOE and LA seems to shoot themselves in the foot every time. From outright lies to all the many CHANGES and different games that SWG has been.
I seriously doubt blixtev would have made a comment on biowares new MMO. This theroy was posted about many times on the SWG boards and seems to be the responce of choice by people defending SWG against a new Star Wars MMO. Blixtev is supposedly "in the business" and should know what a "NDA" is about.
But, on the other hand, nothing would surprise me about blix anylonger. The guy just seems to have business suicidal tendancies.
Well, there are venereal diseases that keep on lingering around, so why not SWG?
"I have only two out of my company and 20 out of some other company. We need support, but it is almost suicide to try to get it here as we are swept by machine gun fire and a constant barrage is on us. I have no one on my left and only a few on my right. I will hold." (First Lieutenant Clifton B. Cates, US Marine Corps, Soissons, 19 July 1918)
LOL! Keep thousands of potential players away to satisfy GL's son and few other teenage jedi wanabe's.
Sounds like SOE/LA alright.
Penny wise but millions stupid.
Again I was just struck by the title of this thread. Why?
It seems to suggest that all veteran players are bent on having SWG close down. That is simply a very untrue overgeneralization. It paints veteran players as somehow the enemy of current players who want to just enjoy their game. It's divisive, and this game certainly doesn't need anything more to divide its playerbase.
Let me be clear that many, probably most, veteran players do not want to see current players lose their game. This is certainly the case with many vets whose posts I read here, and it's also true of my former SWG guildmates that keep in touch via our own forum. That's one reason I continue to be surprised at the animosity and spin-doctoring I see on these boards at times, by the way. In our guild forum, current and former players talk about SWG, WoW, CoH and other events all the time without trying to misrepresent each other, misrepresent any game, or vent hostility on one another. It just isn't necessary, or helpful in my view.
So what do most veteran players seem to want?
Well, many I interact with would really love to see important bugs fixed, especially those that SOE said they would fix, but haven't. Who wouldn't want that??
Many also want to see SOE respect ingame progress. They're tired of seeing their ingame accomplishments go by the wayside with new publishes, and they're tired of relearning the game. Who wouldn't want their progress to be respected??
Many also want to see SOE follow through on promises to address the low population servers. Who wouldn't want to see that??
Some would like classic servers because they really enjoyed the original format of the game. It might also feel that they were being given back something that was taken from them. I don't have a desire for this currently, but I recongize that others still do. Again, this seems quite resonable to me, and doesn't take anything away from current players at all.
For myself, I'd also still like to see some subscription refunds for those that were specifically misled by pre-NGE dev chats in Sept. and Oct. 05 that failed to mention anything about the NGE. Instead they promised things to specific professions (squad leader, ranger and creature handler) that either never materialized or only lasted for 12 days, specifically because of the NGE. This is simply a stand against false advertising. Is anyone in favour of false advertising??
So, the OP doesn't need to apologize to "vets" for the continuation of SWG. If apologies need to be made, and if fences need mending, this is not the best approach in my mind. The points listed above might suggest a more fruitful way forward.
I'm sure this game will never go away, this is my opinion. Is because more and more this game becomes a sandbox and heads towards casual players. There's only about a 11.3% chance that this game will become F2P also. So even in 2yrs this game will be here. They may have to do some major changes to catch up with advancing the engine, graphics etc. But I'm sure it will probably never die...I never read a post on this thread so if it is basically the same thing the OP said, my bad.