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poor tiggs

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  • TzimiscechiTzimiscechi Member Posts: 230

     

    For personal reasons, I detest the woman.

     

  • ArcAngel3ArcAngel3 Member Posts: 2,931
    Originally posted by Obee


    An anti-NGE post by a player was falsely attributed to Tiggs.  Se never took a public stand for the players and didn't lose her job for doing so.  She helped cover up the NGE by lying to us just like the rest of the SOE folks who posted on the forums.  She pushed the NGE as a great improvement to the game after it was announced.
    We don't know why she lost her job, since no one involved has made that information public, but she didn't take a public stand for the players over the NGE.  That is a false legend based on a player's post.  She was in the trenched with the rest of the SOE/LEC folks who were telling us how much we really wanted the changes, and if we didn't then we should just shut up and go away.  She was in no way a martyr, she was just another shill.
     
     

    It's quite true that an anti-nge player post has been wrongly attributed to Tiggs.  I've read it, and it obviously wasn't authored by her.

     

    At the same time, I was on the forums when people were talking about her genuine last post.  It seems to me there were two posts.  The real article that no one got a copy of, and the player post that was wrongly attributed to her.  If you think there was only one post, that might be an error.

    I didn't read it myself, because like I say, my friends told me it only existed for a matter minutes, if that.  Any first hand witnesses of this would be very few indeed.  Because I never saw it myself, I'm open to the possiblity that my friends got it wrong, but I don't get that impression.

    I believe beyond any doubt that she was never in favour of the NGE screw job done to the players.  I also believe she excused herself from one of the B.S. dev chats prior to the NGE due to "illness".  That in itself got my attention.  If I was her, being at a dev chat  right before the NGE would have made me sick too :P

    Yeah I just reread the chats.  For the one where SOE and LEC promised to revamp the professions they then deleted in the NGE, she was absent due to illness.  Thunderheart filled in for her.  And yeah, I think SOE and LEC lied their asses off at that one--those that knew about the NGE that is, especially the two management reps.  At the next dev chat in Oct. 05, she makes all of 3 statements "no promises" and "thanks for coming" twice.  At the dev chat the day after the NGE went live, again Thunderheart is filling in for her as everyone pissed on us and told us it was raining.

    So, no in all honesty, she wasn't there with the rest of them lying to us about what was coming.  She was either absent, or said "no promises, thanks for coming."  In hindsight, this is probably the most honest reponse given at any of the pre-NGE dev chats.  Everyone else was busy marketting crap that was about to be removed from the game.

    True there are some blank points in my knowledge, but everything I do know suggests she followed her heart and got the boot for it.  At the same time, I'm not trying to make her more than human.  We all have our faults.  I have no doubt that she sometimes said things that pissed some people off in her role for SOE.  My sense based on what is publicly known though, is that when push came to shove, she did the right thing.  Like Raph Koster and the unknown dev that was transferred to another project because s/he didn't want to have anything to do with the NGE.  I appreciate people like that a lot--makes the world a better place.

  • FishermageFishermage Member Posts: 7,562


    Originally posted by JustBe
    Originally posted by Teala
    Originally posted by JustBe  
    Noone even liked Tiggs and everyone on the forums flamed her all the time back in the day for SWG. Suddenly she got fired or left and everyone loved her as a excuse to hate on SOE..........
    Reminds me of how noone played CH and yet once they got rid of it with the NGE because it was the most unplayed profession, all of a sudden everyone played CH and started flaming the forums about it.

     
    That is not true.   Tiggs was very well liked by the SWG community.    Why do you think she lost her job with SOE?  Because she couldn't take the BS SOE was dealing to the players.   She sided with us and was canned for it.    Glad to hear that she is still doing what she loves.  


     
    Noone knows why she lost her job because shes not allowed to talk about it, sure she can hint but the end of the day that's only one side of the story, so unless we hear from both of them for the esact reason we'll never know and what anyone else wants to think is just fanboi hearsay.

    Also you look back with Rose tinted glasses because Tiggs was insulted and flamed everyday and people hated her because she wasn't allowed to comment on things. Sure don't shoot the messanger and I understand she was under alot of pressure and shouldn't have been hated on but the fact is noone liked her until after she got fired.



    Actually a lot of folks liked her; Some people treated her like dirt but most understood that she was just another person with a pretty crappy job.

    Now, she was no hero in this, just another victim of SOE's bad management. I met her at SW Celebration 3 and she was very nice.

    I have nothing but sympathy for her; there's a couple of true "snakes in suits" over at SOE but she was never one of them.

  • War_DancerWar_Dancer Member Posts: 941
    Originally posted by Fishermage


     

    Originally posted by JustBe


    Originally posted by Teala


    Originally posted by JustBe
     
     

    Noone even liked Tiggs and everyone on the forums flamed her all the time back in the day for SWG. Suddenly she got fired or left and everyone loved her as a excuse to hate on SOE..........

    Reminds me of how noone played CH and yet once they got rid of it with the NGE because it was the most unplayed profession, all of a sudden everyone played CH and started flaming the forums about it.



     

     

    That is not true.   Tiggs was very well liked by the SWG community.    Why do you think she lost her job with SOE?  Because she couldn't take the BS SOE was dealing to the players.   She sided with us and was canned for it.    Glad to hear that she is still doing what she loves.  


     

     

    Noone knows why she lost her job because shes not allowed to talk about it, sure she can hint but the end of the day that's only one side of the story, so unless we hear from both of them for the esact reason we'll never know and what anyone else wants to think is just fanboi hearsay.

    Also you look back with Rose tinted glasses because Tiggs was insulted and flamed everyday and people hated her because she wasn't allowed to comment on things. Sure don't shoot the messanger and I understand she was under alot of pressure and shouldn't have been hated on but the fact is noone liked her until after she got fired.





    Actually a lot of folks liked her; Some people treated her like dirt but most understood that she was just another person with a pretty crappy job.

     

    Now, she was no hero in this, just another victim of SOE's bad management. I met her at SW Celebration 3 and she was very nice.

    I have nothing but sympathy for her; there's a couple of true "snakes in suits" over at SOE but she was never one of them.

    Tiggs had her good and bad sides. She was good at joking around with and bonding with the community, which considering the sad state of communications from nearly everyone else at SoE, was badly needed. She was awfull at handling crises though, would start getting very close to being insulting and patronising to players that were upset (the one day on test server before hitting live xp nerf being the one that sticks in my mind best). Always left me with the feeling that she was a bit of a control freak that would get upset that everything wasn't going smoothly and then take it out on the wrong people. Still at an MMO company where she's not the only one talking to the community and they have less crises, her strengths should shine and not her weaknesses.

  • ObeeObee Member Posts: 1,550
    Originally posted by ArcAngel3

    Originally posted by Obee


    An anti-NGE post by a player was falsely attributed to Tiggs.  Se never took a public stand for the players and didn't lose her job for doing so.  She helped cover up the NGE by lying to us just like the rest of the SOE folks who posted on the forums.  She pushed the NGE as a great improvement to the game after it was announced.
    We don't know why she lost her job, since no one involved has made that information public, but she didn't take a public stand for the players over the NGE.  That is a false legend based on a player's post.  She was in the trenched with the rest of the SOE/LEC folks who were telling us how much we really wanted the changes, and if we didn't then we should just shut up and go away.  She was in no way a martyr, she was just another shill.
     
     

    It's quite true that an anti-nge player post has been wrongly attributed to Tiggs.  I've read it, and it obviously wasn't authored by her.

     

    At the same time, I was on the forums when people were talking about her genuine last post.  It seems to me there were two posts.  The real article that no one got a copy of, and the player post that was wrongly attributed to her.  If you think there was only one post, that might be an error.

    I didn't read it myself, because like I say, my friends told me it only existed for a matter minutes, if that.  Any first hand witnesses of this would be very few indeed.  Because I never saw it myself, I'm open to the possiblity that my friends got it wrong, but I don't get that impression.

    I believe beyond any doubt that she was never in favour of the NGE screw job done to the players.  I also believe she excused herself from one of the B.S. dev chats prior to the NGE due to "illness".  That in itself got my attention.  If I was her, being at a dev chat  right before the NGE would have made me sick too :P

    Yeah I just reread the chats.  For the one where SOE and LEC promised to revamp the professions they then deleted in the NGE, she was absent due to illness.  Thunderheart filled in for her.  And yeah, I think SOE and LEC lied their asses off at that one--those that knew about the NGE that is, especially the two management reps.  At the next dev chat in Oct. 05, she makes all of 3 statements "no promises" and "thanks for coming" twice.  At the dev chat the day after the NGE went live, again Thunderheart is filling in for her as everyone pissed on us and told us it was raining.

    So, no in all honesty, she wasn't there with the rest of them lying to us about what was coming.  She was either absent, or said "no promises, thanks for coming."  In hindsight, this is probably the most honest reponse given at any of the pre-NGE dev chats.  Everyone else was busy marketting crap that was about to be removed from the game.

    True there are some blank points in my knowledge, but everything I do know suggests she followed her heart and got the boot for it.  At the same time, I'm not trying to make her more than human.  We all have our faults.  I have no doubt that she sometimes said things that pissed some people off in her role for SOE.  My sense based on what is publicly known though, is that when push came to shove, she did the right thing.  Like Raph Koster and the unknown dev that was transferred to another project because s/he didn't want to have anything to do with the NGE.  I appreciate people like that a lot--makes the world a better place.

     

    She lied on the OBoard when asked about the Starter Kit listings on a few retail websites.  She claimed it was a false listing, when she knew quite well that it was real.  If she was against the NGE, you'd never have known from her posts on the OBoard between the time the NGE was announced and the point where she was fired.  She claimed the NGE was an improvement that we had asked, in several posts.  She never came across as being against the NGE until after she was fired.

    The two posts that were attributed to her was the one I previously mentioned as being a player's post, and she supposedly posted the design docs of the CURB.  There was never another post where she was negative about the NGE on the OBoard.  She did her job and pushed it as a good thing, until she was fired.  It was after she was fired where she kinda-sorta mentioned that the way the NGE was announced was a bad thing, on her blog, but that she couldn't actually say what she really thought about it due to the NDA.

    She never took a public stand against the NGE.  We don't know why she was fired, but it wasn't because she stood up for the players on the OBoard.  That is a fantasy based on a post being falsely attributed to her.

     

  • ArcAngel3ArcAngel3 Member Posts: 2,931
    Originally posted by Obee

    Originally posted by ArcAngel3

    Originally posted by Obee


    An anti-NGE post by a player was falsely attributed to Tiggs.  Se never took a public stand for the players and didn't lose her job for doing so.  She helped cover up the NGE by lying to us just like the rest of the SOE folks who posted on the forums.  She pushed the NGE as a great improvement to the game after it was announced.
    We don't know why she lost her job, since no one involved has made that information public, but she didn't take a public stand for the players over the NGE.  That is a false legend based on a player's post.  She was in the trenched with the rest of the SOE/LEC folks who were telling us how much we really wanted the changes, and if we didn't then we should just shut up and go away.  She was in no way a martyr, she was just another shill.
     
     

    It's quite true that an anti-nge player post has been wrongly attributed to Tiggs.  I've read it, and it obviously wasn't authored by her.

     

    At the same time, I was on the forums when people were talking about her genuine last post.  It seems to me there were two posts.  The real article that no one got a copy of, and the player post that was wrongly attributed to her.  If you think there was only one post, that might be an error.

    I didn't read it myself, because like I say, my friends told me it only existed for a matter minutes, if that.  Any first hand witnesses of this would be very few indeed.  Because I never saw it myself, I'm open to the possiblity that my friends got it wrong, but I don't get that impression.

    I believe beyond any doubt that she was never in favour of the NGE screw job done to the players.  I also believe she excused herself from one of the B.S. dev chats prior to the NGE due to "illness".  That in itself got my attention.  If I was her, being at a dev chat  right before the NGE would have made me sick too :P

    Yeah I just reread the chats.  For the one where SOE and LEC promised to revamp the professions they then deleted in the NGE, she was absent due to illness.  Thunderheart filled in for her.  And yeah, I think SOE and LEC lied their asses off at that one--those that knew about the NGE that is, especially the two management reps.  At the next dev chat in Oct. 05, she makes all of 3 statements "no promises" and "thanks for coming" twice.  At the dev chat the day after the NGE went live, again Thunderheart is filling in for her as everyone pissed on us and told us it was raining.

    So, no in all honesty, she wasn't there with the rest of them lying to us about what was coming.  She was either absent, or said "no promises, thanks for coming."  In hindsight, this is probably the most honest reponse given at any of the pre-NGE dev chats.  Everyone else was busy marketting crap that was about to be removed from the game.

    True there are some blank points in my knowledge, but everything I do know suggests she followed her heart and got the boot for it.  At the same time, I'm not trying to make her more than human.  We all have our faults.  I have no doubt that she sometimes said things that pissed some people off in her role for SOE.  My sense based on what is publicly known though, is that when push came to shove, she did the right thing.  Like Raph Koster and the unknown dev that was transferred to another project because s/he didn't want to have anything to do with the NGE.  I appreciate people like that a lot--makes the world a better place.

     

    She lied on the OBoard when asked about the Starter Kit listings on a few retail websites.  She claimed it was a false listing, when she knew quite well that it was real.  If she was against the NGE, you'd never have known from her posts on the OBoard between the time the NGE was announced and the point where she was fired.  She claimed the NGE was an improvement that we had asked, in several posts.  She never came across as being against the NGE until after she was fired.

    The two posts that were attributed to her was the one I previously mentioned as being a player's post, and she supposedly posted the design docs of the CURB.  There was never another post where she was negative about the NGE on the OBoard.  She did her job and pushed it as a good thing, until she was fired.  It was after she was fired where she kinda-sorta mentioned that the way the NGE was announced was a bad thing, on her blog, but that she couldn't actually say what she really thought about it due to the NDA.

    She never took a public stand against the NGE.  We don't know why she was fired, but it wasn't because she stood up for the players on the OBoard.  That is a fantasy based on a post being falsely attributed to her.

     

    I wish I'd seen the fabled "last post" with my own eyes, but I didn't, so I only have what friends told me at the time to go on.  I heard at the time that it was Tiggs expressing conerns about the NGE situation.  I also hear what you're saying now though.  The two things don't line up.  Which is more accurate?  I really have no idea.  One of life's unsolved mysteries for me :).

    Also, I do remember the discussion about the Starter Kit, and being told that it was an unfounded rumour when it first showed up online.  People later accused Tiggs of lying to cover up the NGE development.  However, it's also been said a number of times that early on, not everyone at SOE knew about the NGE.  The ToOW team for example seemed pretty clueless that a lot of their recent work was about to be trashed.  Certainly executives at SOE and LEC knew what was going on, they were the decision makers.  Personally, I think Tiggs told us what they told her at the time.  It's very possible that she was given false information, which she then passed on to the players.  I've seen that scenario before, unfortunately.

    What's really sad is when you have a company that will use someone with integrity to communicate something that management knows is untrue.  People in that situation end up feeling really used.  In the end it's a very isolating experience.  You have the management that used you on the one side, and the customers who feel misled by you on the other.   The situation only gets worse if you're canned, and then compelled to sign an NDA to get some kind of cash settlement to keep your bills paid while you find yourself suddenly unemployed.  The NDA prevents you from ever setting the record straight.  Obviously someone else has something to hide, and they'll put you in a situation where you can't make ends meet if you won't agree to keep their secrets.  It's pretty disgusting. 

    In my mind the best thing that could happen to a person like that would be for him or her to get a new job with people that have a conscience.  Of course it might be nice if say a criminal fraud investigation cracked open all the NDA's, but now I'm being idealistic -_^.

  • ObeeObee Member Posts: 1,550
    Originally posted by ArcAngel3

    Originally posted by Obee

    Originally posted by ArcAngel3

    Originally posted by Obee


    An anti-NGE post by a player was falsely attributed to Tiggs.  Se never took a public stand for the players and didn't lose her job for doing so.  She helped cover up the NGE by lying to us just like the rest of the SOE folks who posted on the forums.  She pushed the NGE as a great improvement to the game after it was announced.
    We don't know why she lost her job, since no one involved has made that information public, but she didn't take a public stand for the players over the NGE.  That is a false legend based on a player's post.  She was in the trenched with the rest of the SOE/LEC folks who were telling us how much we really wanted the changes, and if we didn't then we should just shut up and go away.  She was in no way a martyr, she was just another shill.
     
     

    It's quite true that an anti-nge player post has been wrongly attributed to Tiggs.  I've read it, and it obviously wasn't authored by her.

     

    At the same time, I was on the forums when people were talking about her genuine last post.  It seems to me there were two posts.  The real article that no one got a copy of, and the player post that was wrongly attributed to her.  If you think there was only one post, that might be an error.

    I didn't read it myself, because like I say, my friends told me it only existed for a matter minutes, if that.  Any first hand witnesses of this would be very few indeed.  Because I never saw it myself, I'm open to the possiblity that my friends got it wrong, but I don't get that impression.

    I believe beyond any doubt that she was never in favour of the NGE screw job done to the players.  I also believe she excused herself from one of the B.S. dev chats prior to the NGE due to "illness".  That in itself got my attention.  If I was her, being at a dev chat  right before the NGE would have made me sick too :P

    Yeah I just reread the chats.  For the one where SOE and LEC promised to revamp the professions they then deleted in the NGE, she was absent due to illness.  Thunderheart filled in for her.  And yeah, I think SOE and LEC lied their asses off at that one--those that knew about the NGE that is, especially the two management reps.  At the next dev chat in Oct. 05, she makes all of 3 statements "no promises" and "thanks for coming" twice.  At the dev chat the day after the NGE went live, again Thunderheart is filling in for her as everyone pissed on us and told us it was raining.

    So, no in all honesty, she wasn't there with the rest of them lying to us about what was coming.  She was either absent, or said "no promises, thanks for coming."  In hindsight, this is probably the most honest reponse given at any of the pre-NGE dev chats.  Everyone else was busy marketting crap that was about to be removed from the game.

    True there are some blank points in my knowledge, but everything I do know suggests she followed her heart and got the boot for it.  At the same time, I'm not trying to make her more than human.  We all have our faults.  I have no doubt that she sometimes said things that pissed some people off in her role for SOE.  My sense based on what is publicly known though, is that when push came to shove, she did the right thing.  Like Raph Koster and the unknown dev that was transferred to another project because s/he didn't want to have anything to do with the NGE.  I appreciate people like that a lot--makes the world a better place.

     

    She lied on the OBoard when asked about the Starter Kit listings on a few retail websites.  She claimed it was a false listing, when she knew quite well that it was real.  If she was against the NGE, you'd never have known from her posts on the OBoard between the time the NGE was announced and the point where she was fired.  She claimed the NGE was an improvement that we had asked, in several posts.  She never came across as being against the NGE until after she was fired.

    The two posts that were attributed to her was the one I previously mentioned as being a player's post, and she supposedly posted the design docs of the CURB.  There was never another post where she was negative about the NGE on the OBoard.  She did her job and pushed it as a good thing, until she was fired.  It was after she was fired where she kinda-sorta mentioned that the way the NGE was announced was a bad thing, on her blog, but that she couldn't actually say what she really thought about it due to the NDA.

    She never took a public stand against the NGE.  We don't know why she was fired, but it wasn't because she stood up for the players on the OBoard.  That is a fantasy based on a post being falsely attributed to her.

     

    I wish I'd seen the fabled "last post" with my own eyes, but I didn't, so I only have what friends told me at the time to go on.  I heard at the time that it was Tiggs expressing conerns about the NGE situation.  I also hear what you're saying now though.  The two things don't line up.  Which is more accurate?  I really have no idea.  One of life's unsolved mysteries for me :).

    Also, I do remember the discussion about the Starter Kit, and being told that it was an unfounded rumour when it first showed up online.  People later accused Tiggs of lying to cover up the NGE development.  However, it's also been said a number of times that early on, not everyone at SOE knew about the NGE.  The ToOW team for example seemed pretty clueless that a lot of their recent work was about to be trashed.  Certainly executives at SOE and LEC knew what was going on, they were the decision makers.  Personally, I think Tiggs told us what they told her at the time.  It's very possible that she was given false information, which she then passed on to the players.  I've seen that scenario before, unfortunately.

    What's really sad is when you have a company that will use someone with integrity to communicate something that management knows is untrue.  People in that situation end up feeling really used.  In the end it's a very isolating experience.  You have the management that used you on the one side, and the customers who feel misled by you on the other.   The situation only gets worse if you're canned, and then compelled to sign an NDA to get some kind of cash settlement to keep your bills paid while you find yourself suddenly unemployed.  The NDA prevents you from ever setting the record straight.  Obviously someone else has something to hide, and they'll put you in a situation where you can't make ends meet if you won't agree to keep their secrets.  It's pretty disgusting. 

    In my mind the best thing that could happen to a person like that would be for him or her to get a new job with people that have a conscience.  Of course it might be nice if say a criminal fraud investigation cracked open all the NDA's, but now I'm being idealistic -_^.

     

    I'd say your friends told you about the post that has been misattributed to Tiggs.  She never made a post that expressed any doubt or negativity towards the NGE on the OBoards.  Considering she worked out of the same office where the NGE was being built, I highly doubt she was unaware of what was going on.  She would have to be incredibly dense or willfully blind to not have seen some of the things her co-workers were working on.

    She lied to us, plain and simple.  It was her job.  Even if she had doubts about the NGE, or was kept in the dark, she was sure willing to claim it was a wonderful change that would make the game better.  She made several posts after the NGE was announced, and before she was fired from her job, that claimed the NGE was wonderful and everything us players had ever wanted the game to be.

    I read here posts after the NGE was announced.  She defended the NGE as a game fixing change.  She wasn't in the dark after the announcement.  She defended the NGE changes.  Even if you're correct that she was an unwilling dupe about the Starter Kit, and that she was against the NGE, she still defended it and posted on the Official Forums that it was something that made the game better.  Either way, she wasn't someone who had integrity.  She either knew about the changes and lied, or she claimed to believe something she didn't really believe in an attempt to convince us that the NGE was a good thing.

    She was a shill.

     

  • ArcAngel3ArcAngel3 Member Posts: 2,931
    Originally posted by Obee

    Originally posted by ArcAngel3

    Originally posted by Obee

    Originally posted by ArcAngel3

    Originally posted by Obee


    An anti-NGE post by a player was falsely attributed to Tiggs.  Se never took a public stand for the players and didn't lose her job for doing so.  She helped cover up the NGE by lying to us just like the rest of the SOE folks who posted on the forums.  She pushed the NGE as a great improvement to the game after it was announced.
    We don't know why she lost her job, since no one involved has made that information public, but she didn't take a public stand for the players over the NGE.  That is a false legend based on a player's post.  She was in the trenched with the rest of the SOE/LEC folks who were telling us how much we really wanted the changes, and if we didn't then we should just shut up and go away.  She was in no way a martyr, she was just another shill.
     
     

    It's quite true that an anti-nge player post has been wrongly attributed to Tiggs.  I've read it, and it obviously wasn't authored by her.

     

    At the same time, I was on the forums when people were talking about her genuine last post.  It seems to me there were two posts.  The real article that no one got a copy of, and the player post that was wrongly attributed to her.  If you think there was only one post, that might be an error.

    I didn't read it myself, because like I say, my friends told me it only existed for a matter minutes, if that.  Any first hand witnesses of this would be very few indeed.  Because I never saw it myself, I'm open to the possiblity that my friends got it wrong, but I don't get that impression.

    I believe beyond any doubt that she was never in favour of the NGE screw job done to the players.  I also believe she excused herself from one of the B.S. dev chats prior to the NGE due to "illness".  That in itself got my attention.  If I was her, being at a dev chat  right before the NGE would have made me sick too :P

    Yeah I just reread the chats.  For the one where SOE and LEC promised to revamp the professions they then deleted in the NGE, she was absent due to illness.  Thunderheart filled in for her.  And yeah, I think SOE and LEC lied their asses off at that one--those that knew about the NGE that is, especially the two management reps.  At the next dev chat in Oct. 05, she makes all of 3 statements "no promises" and "thanks for coming" twice.  At the dev chat the day after the NGE went live, again Thunderheart is filling in for her as everyone pissed on us and told us it was raining.

    So, no in all honesty, she wasn't there with the rest of them lying to us about what was coming.  She was either absent, or said "no promises, thanks for coming."  In hindsight, this is probably the most honest reponse given at any of the pre-NGE dev chats.  Everyone else was busy marketting crap that was about to be removed from the game.

    True there are some blank points in my knowledge, but everything I do know suggests she followed her heart and got the boot for it.  At the same time, I'm not trying to make her more than human.  We all have our faults.  I have no doubt that she sometimes said things that pissed some people off in her role for SOE.  My sense based on what is publicly known though, is that when push came to shove, she did the right thing.  Like Raph Koster and the unknown dev that was transferred to another project because s/he didn't want to have anything to do with the NGE.  I appreciate people like that a lot--makes the world a better place.

     

    She lied on the OBoard when asked about the Starter Kit listings on a few retail websites.  She claimed it was a false listing, when she knew quite well that it was real.  If she was against the NGE, you'd never have known from her posts on the OBoard between the time the NGE was announced and the point where she was fired.  She claimed the NGE was an improvement that we had asked, in several posts.  She never came across as being against the NGE until after she was fired.

    The two posts that were attributed to her was the one I previously mentioned as being a player's post, and she supposedly posted the design docs of the CURB.  There was never another post where she was negative about the NGE on the OBoard.  She did her job and pushed it as a good thing, until she was fired.  It was after she was fired where she kinda-sorta mentioned that the way the NGE was announced was a bad thing, on her blog, but that she couldn't actually say what she really thought about it due to the NDA.

    She never took a public stand against the NGE.  We don't know why she was fired, but it wasn't because she stood up for the players on the OBoard.  That is a fantasy based on a post being falsely attributed to her.

     

    I wish I'd seen the fabled "last post" with my own eyes, but I didn't, so I only have what friends told me at the time to go on.  I heard at the time that it was Tiggs expressing conerns about the NGE situation.  I also hear what you're saying now though.  The two things don't line up.  Which is more accurate?  I really have no idea.  One of life's unsolved mysteries for me :).

    Also, I do remember the discussion about the Starter Kit, and being told that it was an unfounded rumour when it first showed up online.  People later accused Tiggs of lying to cover up the NGE development.  However, it's also been said a number of times that early on, not everyone at SOE knew about the NGE.  The ToOW team for example seemed pretty clueless that a lot of their recent work was about to be trashed.  Certainly executives at SOE and LEC knew what was going on, they were the decision makers.  Personally, I think Tiggs told us what they told her at the time.  It's very possible that she was given false information, which she then passed on to the players.  I've seen that scenario before, unfortunately.

    What's really sad is when you have a company that will use someone with integrity to communicate something that management knows is untrue.  People in that situation end up feeling really used.  In the end it's a very isolating experience.  You have the management that used you on the one side, and the customers who feel misled by you on the other.   The situation only gets worse if you're canned, and then compelled to sign an NDA to get some kind of cash settlement to keep your bills paid while you find yourself suddenly unemployed.  The NDA prevents you from ever setting the record straight.  Obviously someone else has something to hide, and they'll put you in a situation where you can't make ends meet if you won't agree to keep their secrets.  It's pretty disgusting. 

    In my mind the best thing that could happen to a person like that would be for him or her to get a new job with people that have a conscience.  Of course it might be nice if say a criminal fraud investigation cracked open all the NDA's, but now I'm being idealistic -_^.

     

    I'd say your friends told you about the post that has been misattributed to Tiggs.  She never made a post that expressed any doubt or negativity towards the NGE on the OBoards.  Considering she worked out of the same office where the NGE was being built, I highly doubt she was unaware of what was going on.  She would have to be incredibly dense or willfully blind to not have seen some of the things her co-workers were working on.

    She lied to us, plain and simple.  It was her job.  Even if she had doubts about the NGE, or was kept in the dark, she was sure willing to claim it was a wonderful change that would make the game better.  She made several posts after the NGE was announced, and before she was fired from her job, that claimed the NGE was wonderful and everything us players had ever wanted the game to be.

    I read here posts after the NGE was announced.  She defended the NGE as a game fixing change.  She wasn't in the dark after the announcement.  She defended the NGE changes.  Even if you're correct that she was an unwilling dupe about the Starter Kit, and that she was against the NGE, she still defended it and posted on the Official Forums that it was something that made the game better.  Either way, she wasn't someone who had integrity.  She either knew about the changes and lied, or she claimed to believe something she didn't really believe in an attempt to convince us that the NGE was a good thing.

    She was a shill.

     

    O.k. here are some of the last puzzle pieces re. "the disappearance of Tiggs."  She started a thread just after the NGE announcement, before it's implementation.  Here are the questions she asked about the NGE while it was very briefly on test:

     

    • "What were your feelings regarding NGE when it was first announced?
    • What were your feelings when you immeadiately entered the game?
    • What were your feelings after you played for a hour?
    • What class did you choose to play?
    • What do you like the most about NGE?
    • What do you dislike about NGE?" (Tiggs, Nov 6/05)

    Here are some of the answers she got:

    • "What were your feelings regarding NGE when it was first announced?

    I felt dread and anger.  (I would not have bought ToOW If I had known this was happening. I would have waited.)

    • What were your feelings when you immeadiately entered the game?

    Dread, and anger still.

    • What were your feelings after you played for a hour?

    I felt like it was time to say goodbye to SW:G for good.  I felt like if I had wanted to buy a console game, I would have.  I felt like if I had wanted the game to be revamped yet again, instead of fixing it, I would not have played SW:G to begin with.  I feel a tad Jealous when I look at other game's patch notes, and then see SW:G's.

    What class did you choose to play?

    Jedi, Though I used a pistol while doing most of the quests.

    • What do you like the most about NGE?

    Ok I know this is where I get called a Troll because I liked nothing about NGE, but I am being 100% honest.  I really liked none of the changes that the NGE has made.  I'm still shocked and amazed that we cannot get fixes to stuff instead of changing fundamental game mechanics so drastically every time it doesn't seem to be going well for SW:G.

    • What do you dislike about NGE?

    The NGE Makes me feel Confined.  It's like pre-nge is Corellia, with wide open spaces, and plenty of room to do whatever I want, and the NGE feels like Kashyyyk,  It feels forced, infexible, simplified, confining, and boring.  I dislike the NGE because everything that was worth sticking around for (despite the bugs, the lag, the lack of fixes, the lack of free content, the lack of extra character slots......) was removed.  You took away the uniqueness that professions offered, that profession dabbling offered.  You took away the visibility system, you took away my choices. 

    You took away my choices.  Do you understand?  The NGE is saying to me. "It's too hard for us (developers) to fix the game, so what we'll do is make it easy for us to fix by taking away all individuality so that it's simple to fix."

     

    In the past 2 or 3 months that this has been worked on, you could have chosen to fix a whole lot of things and even add in a lot of content that would have improved the game immensely. 

    Thanks folks!

    Thank you.  I appreciate you giving me the chance to express my feelings and thoughts here.  Although it is not enough to make me resubscribe.  I'm not sure anything at this point is enough to make me resubscribe.  The game is 2 years old and has lost out on a lot of chances to turn itself around, I think it's just too late for SW:G now to ever regain the popularity it had at launch."  (Grunzer, Nov. 6/05)

     




     

     

     


    CANCELLED

     

    ??????????? ?? ????????? ?????? ??? Sony



    and then there's this one:

    "Opening a can of worms are you? LOl. Ok. It's your funeral." (FATE11357, Nov. 6/05)

    Shortly thereafter, no more Tiggs.  What's been alleged is that she responded to some of these comments with too much empathy, and that was the end of her.  Tbh, it really fits for me.

    Personally, I don't think a shill would ask the questions she asked.  They're not one sided.  She wanted postive and negative feedback equally.  Shills don't do that.  Also, I do think it opened up a can of worms, and I do think it was her funeral--in terms of her job with SOE.  And, once again, I applaud her for drawing out honest feedback from the playing community about what was about to be done to them.  Note, she solicited all of this before the NGE went live.  Probably SOE and LEC's last chance to turn back from self-destruction.  They didn't listen, we got the NGE, and Tiggs got tossed.

  • ObeeObee Member Posts: 1,550
    Originally posted by ArcAngel3

    Originally posted by Obee

    Originally posted by ArcAngel3

    Originally posted by Obee

    Originally posted by ArcAngel3

    Originally posted by Obee


    An anti-NGE post by a player was falsely attributed to Tiggs.  Se never took a public stand for the players and didn't lose her job for doing so.  She helped cover up the NGE by lying to us just like the rest of the SOE folks who posted on the forums.  She pushed the NGE as a great improvement to the game after it was announced.
    We don't know why she lost her job, since no one involved has made that information public, but she didn't take a public stand for the players over the NGE.  That is a false legend based on a player's post.  She was in the trenched with the rest of the SOE/LEC folks who were telling us how much we really wanted the changes, and if we didn't then we should just shut up and go away.  She was in no way a martyr, she was just another shill.
     
     

    It's quite true that an anti-nge player post has been wrongly attributed to Tiggs.  I've read it, and it obviously wasn't authored by her.

     

    At the same time, I was on the forums when people were talking about her genuine last post.  It seems to me there were two posts.  The real article that no one got a copy of, and the player post that was wrongly attributed to her.  If you think there was only one post, that might be an error.

    I didn't read it myself, because like I say, my friends told me it only existed for a matter minutes, if that.  Any first hand witnesses of this would be very few indeed.  Because I never saw it myself, I'm open to the possiblity that my friends got it wrong, but I don't get that impression.

    I believe beyond any doubt that she was never in favour of the NGE screw job done to the players.  I also believe she excused herself from one of the B.S. dev chats prior to the NGE due to "illness".  That in itself got my attention.  If I was her, being at a dev chat  right before the NGE would have made me sick too :P

    Yeah I just reread the chats.  For the one where SOE and LEC promised to revamp the professions they then deleted in the NGE, she was absent due to illness.  Thunderheart filled in for her.  And yeah, I think SOE and LEC lied their asses off at that one--those that knew about the NGE that is, especially the two management reps.  At the next dev chat in Oct. 05, she makes all of 3 statements "no promises" and "thanks for coming" twice.  At the dev chat the day after the NGE went live, again Thunderheart is filling in for her as everyone pissed on us and told us it was raining.

    So, no in all honesty, she wasn't there with the rest of them lying to us about what was coming.  She was either absent, or said "no promises, thanks for coming."  In hindsight, this is probably the most honest reponse given at any of the pre-NGE dev chats.  Everyone else was busy marketting crap that was about to be removed from the game.

    True there are some blank points in my knowledge, but everything I do know suggests she followed her heart and got the boot for it.  At the same time, I'm not trying to make her more than human.  We all have our faults.  I have no doubt that she sometimes said things that pissed some people off in her role for SOE.  My sense based on what is publicly known though, is that when push came to shove, she did the right thing.  Like Raph Koster and the unknown dev that was transferred to another project because s/he didn't want to have anything to do with the NGE.  I appreciate people like that a lot--makes the world a better place.

     

    She lied on the OBoard when asked about the Starter Kit listings on a few retail websites.  She claimed it was a false listing, when she knew quite well that it was real.  If she was against the NGE, you'd never have known from her posts on the OBoard between the time the NGE was announced and the point where she was fired.  She claimed the NGE was an improvement that we had asked, in several posts.  She never came across as being against the NGE until after she was fired.

    The two posts that were attributed to her was the one I previously mentioned as being a player's post, and she supposedly posted the design docs of the CURB.  There was never another post where she was negative about the NGE on the OBoard.  She did her job and pushed it as a good thing, until she was fired.  It was after she was fired where she kinda-sorta mentioned that the way the NGE was announced was a bad thing, on her blog, but that she couldn't actually say what she really thought about it due to the NDA.

    She never took a public stand against the NGE.  We don't know why she was fired, but it wasn't because she stood up for the players on the OBoard.  That is a fantasy based on a post being falsely attributed to her.

     

    I wish I'd seen the fabled "last post" with my own eyes, but I didn't, so I only have what friends told me at the time to go on.  I heard at the time that it was Tiggs expressing conerns about the NGE situation.  I also hear what you're saying now though.  The two things don't line up.  Which is more accurate?  I really have no idea.  One of life's unsolved mysteries for me :).

    Also, I do remember the discussion about the Starter Kit, and being told that it was an unfounded rumour when it first showed up online.  People later accused Tiggs of lying to cover up the NGE development.  However, it's also been said a number of times that early on, not everyone at SOE knew about the NGE.  The ToOW team for example seemed pretty clueless that a lot of their recent work was about to be trashed.  Certainly executives at SOE and LEC knew what was going on, they were the decision makers.  Personally, I think Tiggs told us what they told her at the time.  It's very possible that she was given false information, which she then passed on to the players.  I've seen that scenario before, unfortunately.

    What's really sad is when you have a company that will use someone with integrity to communicate something that management knows is untrue.  People in that situation end up feeling really used.  In the end it's a very isolating experience.  You have the management that used you on the one side, and the customers who feel misled by you on the other.   The situation only gets worse if you're canned, and then compelled to sign an NDA to get some kind of cash settlement to keep your bills paid while you find yourself suddenly unemployed.  The NDA prevents you from ever setting the record straight.  Obviously someone else has something to hide, and they'll put you in a situation where you can't make ends meet if you won't agree to keep their secrets.  It's pretty disgusting. 

    In my mind the best thing that could happen to a person like that would be for him or her to get a new job with people that have a conscience.  Of course it might be nice if say a criminal fraud investigation cracked open all the NDA's, but now I'm being idealistic -_^.

     

    I'd say your friends told you about the post that has been misattributed to Tiggs.  She never made a post that expressed any doubt or negativity towards the NGE on the OBoards.  Considering she worked out of the same office where the NGE was being built, I highly doubt she was unaware of what was going on.  She would have to be incredibly dense or willfully blind to not have seen some of the things her co-workers were working on.

    She lied to us, plain and simple.  It was her job.  Even if she had doubts about the NGE, or was kept in the dark, she was sure willing to claim it was a wonderful change that would make the game better.  She made several posts after the NGE was announced, and before she was fired from her job, that claimed the NGE was wonderful and everything us players had ever wanted the game to be.

    I read here posts after the NGE was announced.  She defended the NGE as a game fixing change.  She wasn't in the dark after the announcement.  She defended the NGE changes.  Even if you're correct that she was an unwilling dupe about the Starter Kit, and that she was against the NGE, she still defended it and posted on the Official Forums that it was something that made the game better.  Either way, she wasn't someone who had integrity.  She either knew about the changes and lied, or she claimed to believe something she didn't really believe in an attempt to convince us that the NGE was a good thing.

    She was a shill.

     

    O.k. here are some of the last puzzle pieces re. "the disappearance of Tiggs."  She started a thread just after the NGE announcement, before it's implementation.  Here are the questions she asked about the NGE while it was very briefly on test:

     

    • "What were your feelings regarding NGE when it was first announced?
    • What were your feelings when you immeadiately entered the game?
    • What were your feelings after you played for a hour?
    • What class did you choose to play?
    • What do you like the most about NGE?
    • What do you dislike about NGE?" (Tiggs, Nov 6/05)

    Here are some of the answers she got:

    • "What were your feelings regarding NGE when it was first announced?

    I felt dread and anger.  (I would not have bought ToOW If I had known this was happening. I would have waited.)

    • What were your feelings when you immeadiately entered the game?

    Dread, and anger still.

    • What were your feelings after you played for a hour?

    I felt like it was time to say goodbye to SW:G for good.  I felt like if I had wanted to buy a console game, I would have.  I felt like if I had wanted the game to be revamped yet again, instead of fixing it, I would not have played SW:G to begin with.  I feel a tad Jealous when I look at other game's patch notes, and then see SW:G's.

    What class did you choose to play?

    Jedi, Though I used a pistol while doing most of the quests.

    • What do you like the most about NGE?

    Ok I know this is where I get called a Troll because I liked nothing about NGE, but I am being 100% honest.  I really liked none of the changes that the NGE has made.  I'm still shocked and amazed that we cannot get fixes to stuff instead of changing fundamental game mechanics so drastically every time it doesn't seem to be going well for SW:G.

    • What do you dislike about NGE?

    The NGE Makes me feel Confined.  It's like pre-nge is Corellia, with wide open spaces, and plenty of room to do whatever I want, and the NGE feels like Kashyyyk,  It feels forced, infexible, simplified, confining, and boring.  I dislike the NGE because everything that was worth sticking around for (despite the bugs, the lag, the lack of fixes, the lack of free content, the lack of extra character slots......) was removed.  You took away the uniqueness that professions offered, that profession dabbling offered.  You took away the visibility system, you took away my choices. 

    You took away my choices.  Do you understand?  The NGE is saying to me. "It's too hard for us (developers) to fix the game, so what we'll do is make it easy for us to fix by taking away all individuality so that it's simple to fix."

     

    In the past 2 or 3 months that this has been worked on, you could have chosen to fix a whole lot of things and even add in a lot of content that would have improved the game immensely. 

    Thanks folks!

    Thank you.  I appreciate you giving me the chance to express my feelings and thoughts here.  Although it is not enough to make me resubscribe.  I'm not sure anything at this point is enough to make me resubscribe.  The game is 2 years old and has lost out on a lot of chances to turn itself around, I think it's just too late for SW:G now to ever regain the popularity it had at launch."  (Grunzer, Nov. 6/05)

     




     

     

     


    CANCELLED

     

    ??????????? ?? ????????? ?????? ??? Sony



    and then there's this one:

    "Opening a can of worms are you? LOl. Ok. It's your funeral." (FATE11357, Nov. 6/05)

    Shortly thereafter, no more Tiggs.  What's been alleged is that she responded to some of these comments with too much empathy, and that was the end of her.  Tbh, it really fits for me.

    Personally, I don't think a shill would ask the questions she asked.  They're not one sided.  She wanted postive and negative feedback equally.  Shills don't do that.  Also, I do think it opened up a can of worms, and I do think it was her funeral--in terms of her job with SOE.  And, once again, I applaud her for drawing out honest feedback from the playing community about what was about to be done to them.  Note, she solicited all of this before the NGE went live.  Probably SOE and LEC's last chance to turn back from self-destruction.  They didn't listen, we got the NGE, and Tiggs got tossed.

     

    She was just asking for feedback about the NGE.  The responses she got has nothing to do with how she felt.  She actively defended the NGE as a good thing up until she was fired.  She was a shill.  She may very well have been against the NGE, but she was defending it on the OBoards up until she was fired.

  • ArcAngel3ArcAngel3 Member Posts: 2,931
    Originally posted by Obee

    Originally posted by ArcAngel3

    Originally posted by Obee

    Originally posted by ArcAngel3

    Originally posted by Obee

    Originally posted by ArcAngel3

    Originally posted by Obee


    An anti-NGE post by a player was falsely attributed to Tiggs.  Se never took a public stand for the players and didn't lose her job for doing so.  She helped cover up the NGE by lying to us just like the rest of the SOE folks who posted on the forums.  She pushed the NGE as a great improvement to the game after it was announced.
    We don't know why she lost her job, since no one involved has made that information public, but she didn't take a public stand for the players over the NGE.  That is a false legend based on a player's post.  She was in the trenched with the rest of the SOE/LEC folks who were telling us how much we really wanted the changes, and if we didn't then we should just shut up and go away.  She was in no way a martyr, she was just another shill.
     
     

    It's quite true that an anti-nge player post has been wrongly attributed to Tiggs.  I've read it, and it obviously wasn't authored by her.

     

    At the same time, I was on the forums when people were talking about her genuine last post.  It seems to me there were two posts.  The real article that no one got a copy of, and the player post that was wrongly attributed to her.  If you think there was only one post, that might be an error.

    I didn't read it myself, because like I say, my friends told me it only existed for a matter minutes, if that.  Any first hand witnesses of this would be very few indeed.  Because I never saw it myself, I'm open to the possiblity that my friends got it wrong, but I don't get that impression.

    I believe beyond any doubt that she was never in favour of the NGE screw job done to the players.  I also believe she excused herself from one of the B.S. dev chats prior to the NGE due to "illness".  That in itself got my attention.  If I was her, being at a dev chat  right before the NGE would have made me sick too :P

    Yeah I just reread the chats.  For the one where SOE and LEC promised to revamp the professions they then deleted in the NGE, she was absent due to illness.  Thunderheart filled in for her.  And yeah, I think SOE and LEC lied their asses off at that one--those that knew about the NGE that is, especially the two management reps.  At the next dev chat in Oct. 05, she makes all of 3 statements "no promises" and "thanks for coming" twice.  At the dev chat the day after the NGE went live, again Thunderheart is filling in for her as everyone pissed on us and told us it was raining.

    So, no in all honesty, she wasn't there with the rest of them lying to us about what was coming.  She was either absent, or said "no promises, thanks for coming."  In hindsight, this is probably the most honest reponse given at any of the pre-NGE dev chats.  Everyone else was busy marketting crap that was about to be removed from the game.

    True there are some blank points in my knowledge, but everything I do know suggests she followed her heart and got the boot for it.  At the same time, I'm not trying to make her more than human.  We all have our faults.  I have no doubt that she sometimes said things that pissed some people off in her role for SOE.  My sense based on what is publicly known though, is that when push came to shove, she did the right thing.  Like Raph Koster and the unknown dev that was transferred to another project because s/he didn't want to have anything to do with the NGE.  I appreciate people like that a lot--makes the world a better place.

     

    She lied on the OBoard when asked about the Starter Kit listings on a few retail websites.  She claimed it was a false listing, when she knew quite well that it was real.  If she was against the NGE, you'd never have known from her posts on the OBoard between the time the NGE was announced and the point where she was fired.  She claimed the NGE was an improvement that we had asked, in several posts.  She never came across as being against the NGE until after she was fired.

    The two posts that were attributed to her was the one I previously mentioned as being a player's post, and she supposedly posted the design docs of the CURB.  There was never another post where she was negative about the NGE on the OBoard.  She did her job and pushed it as a good thing, until she was fired.  It was after she was fired where she kinda-sorta mentioned that the way the NGE was announced was a bad thing, on her blog, but that she couldn't actually say what she really thought about it due to the NDA.

    She never took a public stand against the NGE.  We don't know why she was fired, but it wasn't because she stood up for the players on the OBoard.  That is a fantasy based on a post being falsely attributed to her.

     

    I wish I'd seen the fabled "last post" with my own eyes, but I didn't, so I only have what friends told me at the time to go on.  I heard at the time that it was Tiggs expressing conerns about the NGE situation.  I also hear what you're saying now though.  The two things don't line up.  Which is more accurate?  I really have no idea.  One of life's unsolved mysteries for me :).

    Also, I do remember the discussion about the Starter Kit, and being told that it was an unfounded rumour when it first showed up online.  People later accused Tiggs of lying to cover up the NGE development.  However, it's also been said a number of times that early on, not everyone at SOE knew about the NGE.  The ToOW team for example seemed pretty clueless that a lot of their recent work was about to be trashed.  Certainly executives at SOE and LEC knew what was going on, they were the decision makers.  Personally, I think Tiggs told us what they told her at the time.  It's very possible that she was given false information, which she then passed on to the players.  I've seen that scenario before, unfortunately.

    What's really sad is when you have a company that will use someone with integrity to communicate something that management knows is untrue.  People in that situation end up feeling really used.  In the end it's a very isolating experience.  You have the management that used you on the one side, and the customers who feel misled by you on the other.   The situation only gets worse if you're canned, and then compelled to sign an NDA to get some kind of cash settlement to keep your bills paid while you find yourself suddenly unemployed.  The NDA prevents you from ever setting the record straight.  Obviously someone else has something to hide, and they'll put you in a situation where you can't make ends meet if you won't agree to keep their secrets.  It's pretty disgusting. 

    In my mind the best thing that could happen to a person like that would be for him or her to get a new job with people that have a conscience.  Of course it might be nice if say a criminal fraud investigation cracked open all the NDA's, but now I'm being idealistic -_^.

     

    I'd say your friends told you about the post that has been misattributed to Tiggs.  She never made a post that expressed any doubt or negativity towards the NGE on the OBoards.  Considering she worked out of the same office where the NGE was being built, I highly doubt she was unaware of what was going on.  She would have to be incredibly dense or willfully blind to not have seen some of the things her co-workers were working on.

    She lied to us, plain and simple.  It was her job.  Even if she had doubts about the NGE, or was kept in the dark, she was sure willing to claim it was a wonderful change that would make the game better.  She made several posts after the NGE was announced, and before she was fired from her job, that claimed the NGE was wonderful and everything us players had ever wanted the game to be.

    I read here posts after the NGE was announced.  She defended the NGE as a game fixing change.  She wasn't in the dark after the announcement.  She defended the NGE changes.  Even if you're correct that she was an unwilling dupe about the Starter Kit, and that she was against the NGE, she still defended it and posted on the Official Forums that it was something that made the game better.  Either way, she wasn't someone who had integrity.  She either knew about the changes and lied, or she claimed to believe something she didn't really believe in an attempt to convince us that the NGE was a good thing.

    She was a shill.

     

    O.k. here are some of the last puzzle pieces re. "the disappearance of Tiggs."  She started a thread just after the NGE announcement, before it's implementation.  Here are the questions she asked about the NGE while it was very briefly on test:

     

    • "What were your feelings regarding NGE when it was first announced?
    • What were your feelings when you immeadiately entered the game?
    • What were your feelings after you played for a hour?
    • What class did you choose to play?
    • What do you like the most about NGE?
    • What do you dislike about NGE?" (Tiggs, Nov 6/05)

    Here are some of the answers she got:

    • "What were your feelings regarding NGE when it was first announced?

    I felt dread and anger.  (I would not have bought ToOW If I had known this was happening. I would have waited.)

    • What were your feelings when you immeadiately entered the game?

    Dread, and anger still.

    • What were your feelings after you played for a hour?

    I felt like it was time to say goodbye to SW:G for good.  I felt like if I had wanted to buy a console game, I would have.  I felt like if I had wanted the game to be revamped yet again, instead of fixing it, I would not have played SW:G to begin with.  I feel a tad Jealous when I look at other game's patch notes, and then see SW:G's.

    What class did you choose to play?

    Jedi, Though I used a pistol while doing most of the quests.

    • What do you like the most about NGE?

    Ok I know this is where I get called a Troll because I liked nothing about NGE, but I am being 100% honest.  I really liked none of the changes that the NGE has made.  I'm still shocked and amazed that we cannot get fixes to stuff instead of changing fundamental game mechanics so drastically every time it doesn't seem to be going well for SW:G.

    • What do you dislike about NGE?

    The NGE Makes me feel Confined.  It's like pre-nge is Corellia, with wide open spaces, and plenty of room to do whatever I want, and the NGE feels like Kashyyyk,  It feels forced, infexible, simplified, confining, and boring.  I dislike the NGE because everything that was worth sticking around for (despite the bugs, the lag, the lack of fixes, the lack of free content, the lack of extra character slots......) was removed.  You took away the uniqueness that professions offered, that profession dabbling offered.  You took away the visibility system, you took away my choices. 

    You took away my choices.  Do you understand?  The NGE is saying to me. "It's too hard for us (developers) to fix the game, so what we'll do is make it easy for us to fix by taking away all individuality so that it's simple to fix."

     

    In the past 2 or 3 months that this has been worked on, you could have chosen to fix a whole lot of things and even add in a lot of content that would have improved the game immensely. 

    Thanks folks!

    Thank you.  I appreciate you giving me the chance to express my feelings and thoughts here.  Although it is not enough to make me resubscribe.  I'm not sure anything at this point is enough to make me resubscribe.  The game is 2 years old and has lost out on a lot of chances to turn itself around, I think it's just too late for SW:G now to ever regain the popularity it had at launch."  (Grunzer, Nov. 6/05)

     




     

     

     


    CANCELLED

     

    ??????????? ?? ????????? ?????? ??? Sony



    and then there's this one:

    "Opening a can of worms are you? LOl. Ok. It's your funeral." (FATE11357, Nov. 6/05)

    Shortly thereafter, no more Tiggs.  What's been alleged is that she responded to some of these comments with too much empathy, and that was the end of her.  Tbh, it really fits for me.

    Personally, I don't think a shill would ask the questions she asked.  They're not one sided.  She wanted postive and negative feedback equally.  Shills don't do that.  Also, I do think it opened up a can of worms, and I do think it was her funeral--in terms of her job with SOE.  And, once again, I applaud her for drawing out honest feedback from the playing community about what was about to be done to them.  Note, she solicited all of this before the NGE went live.  Probably SOE and LEC's last chance to turn back from self-destruction.  They didn't listen, we got the NGE, and Tiggs got tossed.

     

    She was just asking for feedback about the NGE.  The responses she got has nothing to do with how she felt.  She actively defended the NGE as a good thing up until she was fired.  She was a shill.  She may very well have been against the NGE, but she was defending it on the OBoards up until she was fired.



     

    She was asking for feedback that her bosses didn't seem to want.  Very risky, and the comment by Fate highlights that.  Also, what I was told on the forums back in O5 was that she DID post in response to this feedback, and that her post was sympathetic.  This would have been the fabled last post.  What I heard was "wow did you see that post by Tiggs about the NGE on test, she was agreeing with the players that it's a bad deal.  The mods deleted it within seconds."  That's what I heard at the time, and it fits what I've copied here.

    You can believe that the post never existed of course, and I respect a lot of what you have to say, but I believe that it did exist, albeit very briefly.  I'm honestly not sure why you're so adamant that it never existed though.

    I also still think it was very risky to ask people for feedback that SOE and LEC didn't want to have.  Remember, they intentionally excluded players from their focus groups.  They didn't want our input.  Tiggs asked for it anyways.  It was the right thing to do, and it seems she paid for it.

    Did the post never really exist or was it deleted within seconds?  Well, there's really no conclusive evidence either way anymore--except people claim they saw it, for a few seconds, before it went poof, and Tiggs got canned.

    Is Tiggs a shill?  Well I know your opinion, and you know mine.  I can agree to disagree with you on this one :)  I think people can make up their own minds.  I hope I've presented information so that people can make an informed decision though, if this interests them. 

  • talanisentalanisen Member Posts: 46

    I can't believe that people are still buying her excuse about the reason for her termination being covered by her NDA. This just isn't the sort of thing that any NDA actually covers, ever. The reality is that she's using this as an excuse to not reveal why she was fired.

    I would be incredibly surprised if the reason for her termination had *anything* to do with anything she posted.

     

  • StraddenStradden Managing EditorMember CommonPosts: 6,696
    Originally posted by talanisen


    I can't believe that people are still buying her excuse about the reason for her termination being covered by her NDA. This just isn't the sort of thing that any NDA actually covers, ever. The reality is that she's using this as an excuse to not reveal why she was fired.
    I would be incredibly surprised if the reason for her termination had *anything* to do with anything she posted.
     

     

    Uh... I've had jobs for which I am still under NDA and I know a number of people in the games industry who have been laid off and can't talk about the reason for the termination due to NDA. I don't know the specifics of what you guys are talking about (I've only read your post) but it is possible.

     

    Cheers,
    Jon Wood
    Managing Editor
    MMORPG.com

  • ArcAngel3ArcAngel3 Member Posts: 2,931
    Originally posted by Stradden

    Originally posted by talanisen


    I can't believe that people are still buying her excuse about the reason for her termination being covered by her NDA. This just isn't the sort of thing that any NDA actually covers, ever. The reality is that she's using this as an excuse to not reveal why she was fired.
    I would be incredibly surprised if the reason for her termination had *anything* to do with anything she posted.
     

     

    Uh... I've had jobs for which I am still under NDA and I know a number of people in the games industry who have been laid off and can't talk about the reason for the termination due to NDA. I don't know the specifics of what you guys are talking about (I've only read your post) but it is possible.

     



     

    Indeed, the circumstances surronding a dismissal are commonly the very thing that NDA's are designed to conceal. 

    Take this real life case example, minus any identifying information.  A guy loses his management position due to a hostile business takeover.  He thinks he's got grounds for an unlawful dismissal case.  The new owner's legal representation says, "o.k. now, you can sue us, and we'll make your life a living hell for as long as we possibly can, or you can take a year's salary, wave your right to legal action, and sign this NDA."  Your choice.  This is an all too common scenario.  Most people take the year's salary and sign the NDA.

  • BodeusBodeus Member Posts: 516

    I thought Tiggs was at DDO? or am I thinking of another swg exmod.. bah who can keep up these days..

  • TillerTiller Member EpicPosts: 8,572
    Originally posted by Obee


    An anti-NGE post by a player was falsely attributed to Tiggs.  Se never took a public stand for the players and didn't lose her job for doing so.  She helped cover up the NGE by lying to us just like the rest of the SOE folks who posted on the forums.  She pushed the NGE as a great improvement to the game after it was announced.
    We don't know why she lost her job, since no one involved has made that information public, but she didn't take a public stand for the players over the NGE.  That is a false legend based on a player's post.  She was in the trenched with the rest of the SOE/LEC folks who were telling us how much we really wanted the changes, and if we didn't then we should just shut up and go away.  She was in no way a martyr, she was just another shill.
     
     

     

    someone on the forums posted after it happened that she had to many sick days. /shrug

    then there is this www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/137478

    no one really knows



    SWG Bloodfin vet
    Elder Jedi/Elder Bounty Hunter
  • ObeeObee Member Posts: 1,550
    Originally posted by tillamook

    Originally posted by Obee


    An anti-NGE post by a player was falsely attributed to Tiggs.  Se never took a public stand for the players and didn't lose her job for doing so.  She helped cover up the NGE by lying to us just like the rest of the SOE folks who posted on the forums.  She pushed the NGE as a great improvement to the game after it was announced.
    We don't know why she lost her job, since no one involved has made that information public, but she didn't take a public stand for the players over the NGE.  That is a false legend based on a player's post.  She was in the trenched with the rest of the SOE/LEC folks who were telling us how much we really wanted the changes, and if we didn't then we should just shut up and go away.  She was in no way a martyr, she was just another shill.
     
     

     

    someone on the forums posted after it happened that she had to many sick days. /shrug

    then there is this www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/137478

    no one really knows



     

    The guy who wrote the post that has been misattributed to Tiggs posted in that thread to explain that he wrote the post and not Tiggs.

    www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/post/1495462#1495462

    The only posts she made before being fired were ones that claimed the NGE was a necessary change that was good for the game.  She empathized a bit with everyone who was upset, but she never game any indication that she was personally against the charges.  She wasn't fired for publicly standing with the players against the NGE, she shilled it like the rest of the SOE/LEC employees who posted on the OBoard at the time.

     

  • ArcAngel3ArcAngel3 Member Posts: 2,931
    Originally posted by Obee

    Originally posted by tillamook

    Originally posted by Obee


    An anti-NGE post by a player was falsely attributed to Tiggs.  Se never took a public stand for the players and didn't lose her job for doing so.  She helped cover up the NGE by lying to us just like the rest of the SOE folks who posted on the forums.  She pushed the NGE as a great improvement to the game after it was announced.
    We don't know why she lost her job, since no one involved has made that information public, but she didn't take a public stand for the players over the NGE.  That is a false legend based on a player's post.  She was in the trenched with the rest of the SOE/LEC folks who were telling us how much we really wanted the changes, and if we didn't then we should just shut up and go away.  She was in no way a martyr, she was just another shill.
     
     

     

    someone on the forums posted after it happened that she had to many sick days. /shrug

    then there is this www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/137478

    no one really knows



     

    The guy who wrote the post that has been misattributed to Tiggs posted in that thread to explain that he wrote the post and not Tiggs.

    www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/post/1495462#1495462

    The only posts she made before being fired were ones that claimed the NGE was a necessary change that was good for the game.  She empathized a bit with everyone who was upset, but she never game any indication that she was personally against the charges.  She wasn't fired for publicly standing with the players against the NGE, she shilled it like the rest of the SOE/LEC employees who posted on the OBoard at the time.

     



     

    Yup that's the "misattributed post" alright.  Tbh, I never thought Tiggs was the author.  It's clearly written from the perspective of a player, not an SOE rep.  It doesn't sound like Tiggs, it's full of unTiggslike grammar/spelling issues, and it never had her trademark signature.

    I also agree with you Obee that she tried to do damage control regarding the NGE, and I didn't really dig that.  I think she wanted to find a way to make the best of a bad thing.  I tried to do that for a while myself, but just lost the stomach for it.  As all of the ramifications of the NGE became apparent, I just couldn't find a way to be supportive.  There was just too much wrong with it and the way it was delivered. 

    Regarding Tiggs, the "shill" term just doesn't fit for me.  I've read enough shill posts re. SWG to last a life-time.  Tiggs' comments were different to me, in that they invited constructive criticism, and encouraged players to share their feelings about the changes.  Tbh, her last thread (or nearly last), gave the veteran players a voice on the official forums.  The only thing that seems unverifiable is whether or not she added a comment to that thread that got her in hot water.  She was probably not the employee of the month just for inviting players to share their criticisms and feelings.   If you remember that SOE's sole hope for NGE success was marketting spin, I think that highlights why her thread may have been controversial.

    When I hear the word "shill", I think of posts that say vets are whiners, that the NGE is an improvement, that the losses were insignificant, that the feedback is overwhelmingly positive etc. etc.  I never got that from Tiggs.  I think she tried to find a balance between doing her job and making the best of a bad thing on one hand, and giving players a chance to be heard regarding their valid concerns on the other.  I also think that given the situation this balance was perhaps impossible to achieve.

  • ObeeObee Member Posts: 1,550

    Yeah, shill is probably the wrong term, since it mainly refers to people who aren't publicly employed by the company they shill for.  As for her soliciting feedback, the Smed was doing the same thing (as did the other SOE folks after the Smed made them post), but you'll note that no changes came about due to the feedback, since the NGE was intended to replace us, not make us like the game more.  She still made an attempt to tell us that the NGE was a good change and made the game better.  It wasn't until after she was fired that she gave any indication that she thought the NGE was a bad thing.

     

     

  • ArcAngel3ArcAngel3 Member Posts: 2,931
    Originally posted by Obee


    Yeah, shill is probably the wrong term, since it mainly refers to people who aren't publicly employed by the company they shill for.  As for her soliciting feedback, the Smed was doing the same thing (as did the other SOE folks after the Smed made them post), but you'll note that no changes came about due to the feedback, since the NGE was intended to replace us, not make us like the game more.  She still made an attempt to tell us that the NGE was a good change and made the game better.  It wasn't until after she was fired that she gave any indication that she thought the NGE was a bad thing.
     
     



     

    I hear you, I didn't like any postive spin regarding the NGE, no matter who it came from.  I think Freeman summed up the marketting approach best when he said SOE and LEC were pissing on us and telling us it was raining.  

    Also, I think it really says a lot regarding the management still directing SWG.  Despite all of the feedback highlighting all of the bugs, losses, ethical issues etc., Smed went ahead and did it anyway hoping to steal some of Blizzard's market-share pie.   Of all the reasons that I don't play SWG or any other SOE games for that matter, this has to be number one.  I'm not willing to do business with a company under this kind of leadership.  I now expect poor service and unethical treatment, so I take my business elsewhere.

  • JestorRodoJestorRodo Member UncommonPosts: 2,642

      Tiggs was a positive Influence in  a very negative situation and that situation was not conducive to professorial growth. After my earlier post on this thread - Tiggs emailed me over on MySpace and confirmed that is is not only busy with contract work with Turbine but is also working with NAMCO BANDAI and very busy with her own company.

     

      Tiggs may have had a bump in the road with SOE but she is doing more and better then when she was employed with them IMHO. 

     

    Unaware of the Jestor?
    http://about.me/JestorRodo/

    Friends enjoy his classic Vblog - https://www.facebook.com/GoodOldReliableNathan

  • ArcheusCrossArcheusCross Member Posts: 793
    Originally posted by JustBe


     
    Noone even liked Tiggs and everyone on the forums flamed her all the time back in the day for SWG. Suddenly she got fired or left and everyone loved her as a excuse to hate on SOE..........
    Reminds me of how noone played CH and yet once they got rid of it with the NGE because it was the most unplayed profession, all of a sudden everyone played CH and started flaming the forums about it.

     

    Your new to SWG arent you? Hmm...

    "Do not fret! Your captain is about to enter Valhalla!" - General Beatrix of Alexandria

    "The acquisition of knowledge is of use to the intellect, for nothing can be loved or hated without first being known." - Leo da Vinci

  • ArcheusCrossArcheusCross Member Posts: 793
    Originally posted by Teala

    Originally posted by JustBe


     
    Noone even liked Tiggs and everyone on the forums flamed her all the time back in the day for SWG. Suddenly she got fired or left and everyone loved her as a excuse to hate on SOE..........
    Reminds me of how noone played CH and yet once they got rid of it with the NGE because it was the most unplayed profession, all of a sudden everyone played CH and started flaming the forums about it.



     

    That is not true.   Tiggs was very well liked by the SWG community.    Why do you think she lost her job with SOE?  Because she couldn't take the BS SOE was dealing to the players.   She sided with us and was canned for it.    Glad to hear that she is still doing what she loves.  

     

    Exactly. Tiggs has my respect for a very long time for simply losing her job for standing up for what she believed in. Any time someone from a gaming company does something like that for us, i'll buy and try out any game they are involved with in the future. Period.

    "Do not fret! Your captain is about to enter Valhalla!" - General Beatrix of Alexandria

    "The acquisition of knowledge is of use to the intellect, for nothing can be loved or hated without first being known." - Leo da Vinci

  • kobie173kobie173 Member UncommonPosts: 2,075
    Originally posted by ArcheusCross

    Originally posted by Teala

    Originally posted by JustBe


     
    Noone even liked Tiggs and everyone on the forums flamed her all the time back in the day for SWG. Suddenly she got fired or left and everyone loved her as a excuse to hate on SOE..........
    Reminds me of how noone played CH and yet once they got rid of it with the NGE because it was the most unplayed profession, all of a sudden everyone played CH and started flaming the forums about it.



     

    That is not true.   Tiggs was very well liked by the SWG community.    Why do you think she lost her job with SOE?  Because she couldn't take the BS SOE was dealing to the players.   She sided with us and was canned for it.    Glad to hear that she is still doing what she loves.  

     

    Exactly. Tiggs has my respect for a very long time for simply losing her job for standing up for what she believed in. Any time a dev does something like that for us, i'll buy and try out any game they are involved with. Period.



     

    Tiggs wasn't a dev.

    So I started to walk into the water. I won't lie to you boys...I was terrified. But I pressed on, and as I made my way past the breakers, a strange calm came over me. I don't know if it was divine intervention or the kinship of all living things, but I tell you, Jerry, at that moment ... I was a marine biologist.

  • ArcAngel3ArcAngel3 Member Posts: 2,931
    Originally posted by JestorRodo


      Tiggs was a positive Influence in  a very negative situation and that situation was not conducive to professorial growth. After my earlier post on this thread - Tiggs emailed me over on MySpace and confirmed that is is not only busy with contract work with Turbine but is also work with Capcom and very busy with her own company.

     
      Tiggs may have had a bump in the road with SOE but she is doing more and better then when she was employed with them IMHO. 
     



     

    I'm glad to hear she's got work with Turbine and Capcom.  SOE's loss is their gain I guess -_^.  I think it's also very cool how she's trying to provide encouragement to those in the armed forces.  Just shows how we can all use our talents to make the world a little brighter.  God Bless you Tiggs :)

  • stinneystinney Member Posts: 35
    Originally posted by JustBe


     
    Noone even liked Tiggs and everyone on the forums flamed her all the time back in the day for SWG. Suddenly she got fired or left and everyone loved her as a excuse to hate on SOE..........
    Reminds me of how noone played CH and yet once they got rid of it with the NGE because it was the most unplayed profession, all of a sudden everyone played CH and started flaming the forums about it.



     

    I think there are an aweful lot of CH out there that would disagree with you.

     

    Maybe if SOE had spent some money on developing the CH profession instead of wasting all their time on the NGE, there would be more people inclined to pick the proff up.

     

     

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