I really don't understand this logic. 3 Superhero games is nothing compared to the giant flood of Fantasy based MMOs out there. You know what? I'm sick of swinging a damned sword, killing orcs and fishing around for whatever the fantasy MMO calls gold pieces. Been there, done that. CoX was a very good game, but it's certainly not the be all end all superhero game many people make it out to be. It had a very, very nice character generator but the gameplay got monotonous very quickly. You can only see the inside of the same cave so many times, no matter what level you are.
Different MMOs approach their genre in different ways. CoX approached it closer to a traditional MMO. By all reports, Champions is approaching it more like Marvel Ultimate Alliance/X-Men Legends, ie an action game. DCU's looking like it might tow the line between the two. Different MMOs, potentially much different playstyles.
Besides, unlike CoX's one city you're constantly stuck in, DCU has the potential of the entire DCU to play in, not to mention untold years of continuity to draw on for content. I, for one, hope they eventually do something with some of the cooler settings such as Rann or Thanagarr, or at least have things more appropriate to individual people's origins. 'sides, only in DCU can I play a Green Lantern without having someone report my character for copyright infractions.
When a game is finished is highly debatable. An MMO is never truly finished and there will always be bugs and glitches. There has never been an MMO that was 100% completed at launch and there never will be. Ofcourse a game changes over time, this happens with every game. So far most changes SOE has made to their games (MxO, EQ2, Vanguard) have received positive reactions from their playerbase. It's only SWG that went completely wrong and apparantly SWG crybabies just can't get over it.
Sure no game is perfect and MMOs are never finished, but when a game needs massive revamps of every core system then it is a pretty sure bet the game was rushed out to market before it was close to being ready. The president of SOE even admitted they rushed the game out to compete with WoW. That is why the game engine suffers to this very day.
Also all of those revamps you see people as receiving positive reactions weren't so positive back in the day. I was a test realm player for EQ2 during the combat revamp and I can tell you most asuradly that people didn't receive that all to well and the overall revamp accomplished nothing. There is a reason the servers were merging not long after all these revamps to crafting, combat, quests, solo vs group, etc. Do you really think 24 classes could be rebalanced all the while changing the combat system, adding 10 new levels and releasing an expansion all at the same time? Vangaurd has also had its share of displeasure with the removal of many things which were key features of the original game. The game performs much better than it once did, but what else has really changed in the year SOE has owned the game? Who cares about MxO, SOE doesn't seem to.
Because it's not on the Forums list? Unless I've overlooked it, it's not under the currently released or under the In Development (where it should be) sections. Are the MMORPG forum mods saying it's not a MMORPG?
I agree, its puzzling
even Darkfall is on the "quick list" for games in development
Actually, I just found it on the "Select Forum" drop-box in the Dare to be Different: Choose a less active forum banner. Still don't know why it's not listed in the left side bar.
Oh well, at least I don't have to go hunting for it through the news forum anymore...
------------- The less you expect, the more you'll be surprised. Hopefully, pleasantly so.
I dont understand why some people think that 3 superhero mmos is too many
whats the limit for fantasy mmos ? 6? Scifi ? 4?
I dont know about you but I tire of any mmo after awhile - its nice to have options to play other games
Fantasy and SCI-FI can have lots of variation, in style, gameplay, settings and audiance.
The Super Hero, formula is always the same.
Get yourself a nice looking costume at character creation (which you ll never change for the entire life of your character), acquire superpowers (skills), beat the baddies, rinse and repeat.
The environment is usually a city and the audiance is the ultra casual.
I really don't see how anyone can make anything differenty than that.
I agree with you that we need choice and CoH was a welcome change from the usual MMO, but really I cannot see how those others games can offer anything more than CoH
CoH as I said was a really good game for its market and well made too, but let s face it, it wasn't exactly a blockbuster.
It looks like there isn't enough people around who wants toplay a Super Hero game, so I genuinely don't understand all the rush in producing 2 more of them.
The above post actually even omits a couple of other tabletop superhero RPGs. There's also Marvel's SAGA system game from the mid 90s and AEG/Pinnacle's Brave New World ( arguably the best unique setting for a superhero game ever ). Champions/HERO System alone have gone through multitudes of editions, with at least a few of them being quite different in some of their approaches.
The differences between some of these systems can be huge. Classic Marvel Universe, for example, allowed players to be pretty much unlimited in what they wanted to do, allowing their characters to reach Silver Surfer/Cosmic levels of power. Brave New World was decided much weaker, restraining players to what essentially is the B-list heroes. Mutants and Masterminds might actually trump Classic Marvel in pure power versatility and uniqueness.
Really, it's not much different than saying "How many fantasy RPGs can you possibly have?" Answer: hundreds. On the surface D&D, Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay, Rolemaster and 7th Sea are all fantasy RPGs. Ask any fan of them and they'll tell you that each has it's nuances that make them all drastically different just in system alone. Heck, even the various D&D settings can drastically chance the way the game is approached: check out Dark Sun, Ravenloft or Spelljammer for examples.
There's plenty of room for new games, though certain genres ( Fantasy! ) are going to have to be pretty damned unique to fit into the current marketplace. Sci-Fi, Superhero and even The Agency have pretty free reign, though.
I find it sad how everyone rates a game not based on the game but instead on who is publishing it...and all before they try the game. I don't agree with everything SOE has done but they are still my favorite MMO developers. And, this looks like it is going to be better than any other of their MMOs....It looks like it will be better than any of the Cryptic Studio games as well.
This game will be great I am sure.
And. er. Cough.
Right! Thankius (turn head, cough).
Your experience with SOE is what? Might I ask?
I am having a hard time pin-pointing a game SOE has done correctly since EQ...Please enlighten.
EQ: Made some change, some time, lost it's grip.
EQ2: Crap, that's where our EQ players went AND it was so bad at launch WoW kicked us.
MxO: Opps. hasn't changed, still sucks.
Vanguard: It sucked when we (cough) bought it.
Planet Side: Hold on, this didn't suck! Our lowest sub'd original game.
DC Online/007xOnline? Who cares? They haven't done anything but milk and screw customers since EQ. Trust them to make a decent game? Who knows. If it remains good over 365 days, I'll be shocked.
I suggest you get some quality detection because you seem to lack it. Everquest 1 is still a good game and so is Everquest 2. EQ2 and its expansions have all been received very well.
EQ2 was the direct competition to World of Warcraft, not Aion, not Age of Conan, not Lord of the rings Online. Everquest 2 was in developed and released as the only title that could have rivaled Blizzard. Right, they failed miserably, because while WoW was fighting login numbers, EQ2 had major systematic problems that made the game unplayable. EQ1 was a success, while it had no competiton in North America, and it was revolutionary, to the point of, RIGHT SOE decided at several points that their vision of the game was more important that that of the player, right. Glad they only did this to EQ.
I haven't played MXO at release, but I have played it after SOE took over and I had a good time. I don't know the current state of Vanguard from what I have heard the changes SOE has made to Vanguard have been for the better.
The you should know that SOE did nothing for MxO other than keeping it running for the 20-50k subscribers who gave a damn to watch it progress. Like Tabula Rasa, this game is pretty, and I mean DAMNED pretty, but it offers nothing to anyone. There is no reason to group (other than to PvP), there is no reason to progress, and after a few weeks, you realize, there is no reason to play. The sad thing about MxO, other than SOE buying it, only to let it rot, is that the only major thing SOE did to this game was a combat revamp. Personally, I didn't see that one coming (cough). They couldn't even make SW viable, well, minus their excuses.
Who cares about DC Universe/ The Agency? For one, I do. At least they're doing something new and different from the mmo pack.
New? City of Heroes has been done. It was new once, has a nice community, and they make great contests! I fail to see how a game based on Marvel or DC lore (Cali's Gov as goal) is going to make the next great "MMO". I also fail to see how a game based on being a SPY (individual) is going to make the next great "MMO. "
This hype is bullshit. Their ideas are singular, and not multiplayer. They want a game where you do your own thing, while voice chatting with your real life mates! Oh, right. I meant to play a game where I can meet people, damn....
You all can say this and that. But the truth is, this game will still have its own community (big or small). I for one will buy this game and play it, im to big of a fan not to buy and try this game out. So keep on keeping on with your excuses for the game, if it sucks, it sucks. If you don't think it will do well, don't buy it, my god, its not like someone is forcing you..............
I find it sad how everyone rates a game not based on the game but instead on who is publishing it...and all before they try the game. I don't agree with everything SOE has done but they are still my favorite MMO developers. And, this looks like it is going to be better than any other of their MMOs....It looks like it will be better than any of the Cryptic Studio games as well.
This game will be great I am sure.
And. er. Cough.
Right! Thankius (turn head, cough).
Your experience with SOE is what? Might I ask?
I am having a hard time pin-pointing a game SOE has done correctly since EQ...Please enlighten.
EQ: Made some change, some time, lost it's grip.
EQ2: Crap, that's where our EQ players went AND it was so bad at launch WoW kicked us.
MxO: Opps. hasn't changed, still sucks.
Vanguard: It sucked when we (cough) bought it.
Planet Side: Hold on, this didn't suck! Our lowest sub'd original game.
DC Online/007xOnline? Who cares? They haven't done anything but milk and screw customers since EQ. Trust them to make a decent game? Who knows. If it remains good over 365 days, I'll be shocked.
I suggest you get some quality detection because you seem to lack it. Everquest 1 is still a good game and so is Everquest 2. EQ2 and its expansions have all been received very well.
EQ2 was the direct competition to World of Warcraft, not Aion, not Age of Conan, not Lord of the rings Online. Everquest 2 was in developed and released as the only title that could have rivaled Blizzard. Right, they failed miserably, because while WoW was fighting login numbers, EQ2 had major systematic problems that made the game unplayable. EQ1 was a success, while it had no competiton in North America, and it was revolutionary, to the point of, RIGHTUm SOE decided at several points that their vision of the game was more important that that of the player, right. Glad they only did this to EQ.
Everquest 2 has never stood a chance against World of Warcraft, No MMORPG has. The fanbase is simply to large. Not even the Lineage series could do anything against WoW's numbers. Everquest 1 had plenty of competition, it had to compete with Ultima Online in an age where the MMO genre was very small, and at EQ's peak time it had to compete with a great number of games such as UO,AC, DAOC and FFXI.
I haven't played MXO at release, but I have played it after SOE took over and I had a good time. I don't know the current state of Vanguard from what I have heard the changes SOE has made to Vanguard have been for the better.
The you should know that SOE did nothing for MxO other than keeping it running for the 20-50k subscribers who gave a damn to watch it progress. Like Tabula Rasa, this game is pretty, and I mean DAMNED pretty, but it offers nothing to anyone. There is no reason to group (other than to PvP), there is no reason to progress, and after a few weeks, you realize, there is no reason to play. The sad thing about MxO, other than SOE buying it, only to let it rot, is that the only major thing SOE did to this game was a combat revamp. Personally, I didn't see that one coming (cough). They couldn't even make SW viable, well, minus their excuses.
There is no reason to play ANY mmo besides upgrading your character, its like that in any mmorpg.
Who cares about DC Universe/ The Agency? For one, I do. At least they're doing something new and different from the mmo pack.
New? City of Heroes has been done. It was new once, has a nice community, and they make great contests! I fail to see how a game based on Marvel or DC lore (Cali's Gov as goal) is going to make the next great "MMO". I also fail to see how a game based on being a SPY (individual) is going to make the next great "MMO. "
This hype is bullshit. Their ideas are singular, and not multiplayer. They want a game where you do your own thing, while voice chatting with your real life mates! Oh, right. I meant to play a game where I can meet people, damn....
SOE is a wreck.
wow, 1 whole mmorpg? lets scrap the entire project because one single mmo has already done it. So far very little is known about DC Universe and The Agency, its way to early to already cast judgement, First of all the fact that you consider these games singular already pretty much proves you just let your hatred for SOE decide what you think of the game. The Agency and DC Universe have shown us two gameplay videos (well actually they have shown more, but its just the same part they shown multiple times now) and both of these sections involved grouping. All they have really shown so far is combat, in which both titles prove to be innovative.
Some people actually like the concept of a super hero mmo based on DC or playing as a spy (If you think spies work by themself, you need to do a bit more research btw). You don't like it? Fine, nobody is forcing you to come to this section to discuss it. I can guarentee you that nobody who is looking forward to these games is waiting to hear you rant, so I suggest you run off to the section of whatever mmo you're looking forward to.
Edit: Oh nevermind about the last part, I just went over your posthistory and it turns out you have yet to make a single post that does not have a negative attitude.
I suggest you get some quality detection because you seem to lack it. Everquest 1 is still a good game and so is Everquest 2. EQ2 and its expansions have all been received very well. EQ2 was the direct competition to World of Warcraft, not Aion, not Age of Conan, not Lord of the rings Online. Everquest 2 was in developed and released as the only title that could have rivaled Blizzard. Right, they failed miserably, because while WoW was fighting login numbers, EQ2 had major systematic problems that made the game unplayable. EQ1 was a success, while it had no competiton in North America, and it was revolutionary, to the point of, RIGHTUm SOE decided at several points that their vision of the game was more important that that of the player, right. Glad they only did this to EQ. Everquest 2 has never stood a chance against World of Warcraft, No MMORPG has. The fanbase is simply to large. Not even the Lineage series could do anything against WoW's numbers. Everquest 1 had plenty of competition, it had to compete with Ultima Online in an age where the MMO genre was very small, and at EQ's peak time it had to compete with a great number of games such as UO,AC, DAOC and FFXI. To say that Everquest never stood a chance against World of Warcraft is simply not true. Both of these titles got a load of side by side press, including here on MMORPG. As far as Ultima Online goes, it was a great game, perhaps still is, the eye candy of EQ was a bit more appealing. The other games you mentioned had some steam, but EQ was pretty much the establishment at the time. Plus the 'massive' online gaming population was much smaller than it is today. I haven't played MXO at release, but I have played it after SOE took over and I had a good time. I don't know the current state of Vanguard from what I have heard the changes SOE has made to Vanguard have been for the better. The you should know that SOE did nothing for MxO other than keeping it running for the 20-50k subscribers who gave a damn to watch it progress. Like Tabula Rasa, this game is pretty, and I mean DAMNED pretty, but it offers nothing to anyone. There is no reason to group (other than to PvP), there is no reason to progress, and after a few weeks, you realize, there is no reason to play. The sad thing about MxO, other than SOE buying it, only to let it rot, is that the only major thing SOE did to this game was a combat revamp. Personally, I didn't see that one coming (cough). They couldn't even make SW viable, well, minus their excuses. There is no reason to play ANY mmo besides upgrading your character, its like that in any mmorpg. Sure, upgrading your character is one aspect, but if that is all there is to do, then the game is a failure. If that is the only thing you want to do, then I suggest you go to a F2P MMO. Even WoW has a nice number of things to do that aren't all about epics. Who cares about DC Universe/ The Agency? For one, I do. At least they're doing something new and different from the mmo pack.
New? City of Heroes has been done. It was new once, has a nice community, and they make great contests! I fail to see how a game based on Marvel or DC lore (Cali's Gov as goal) is going to make the next great "MMO". I also fail to see how a game based on being a SPY (individual) is going to make the next great "MMO. "
This hype is bullshit. Their ideas are singular, and not multiplayer. They want a game where you do your own thing, while voice chatting with your real life mates! Oh, right. I meant to play a game where I can meet people, damn....
SOE is a wreck.
wow, 1 whole mmorpg? lets scrap the entire project because one single mmo has already done it. So far very little is known about DC Universe and The Agency, its way to early to already cast judgement, First of all the fact that you consider these games singular already pretty much proves you just let your hatred for SOE decide what you think of the game. The Agency and DC Universe have shown us two gameplay videos (well actually they have shown more, but its just the same part they shown multiple times now) and both of these sections involved grouping. All they have really shown so far is combat, in which both titles prove to be innovative.
You said new. And I saw the combat videos, I don't know how you define "innovative" but I didn't see it there.
Some people actually like the concept of a super hero mmo based on DC or playing as a spy (If you think spies work by themself, you need to do a bit more research btw). You don't like it? Fine, nobody is forcing you to come to this section to discuss it. I can guarentee you that nobody who is looking forward to these games is waiting to hear you rant, so I suggest you run off to the section of whatever mmo you're looking forward to.
Edit: Oh nevermind about the last part, I just went over your posthistory and it turns out you have yet to make a single post that does not have a negative attitude.
You want to know what I am happy about? Ryzom making a comeback (I am all smiles about that one). Bioware developing the next Star Wars MMO, and perhaps WAR being a playable game. My last MMO was Tabula Rasa (ended last week). I make no bones about not being an SOE fan. That is why I created this thread. It was the first thread on this site about this game. For one thing, if I generate discussion about the game, and you make good points against mine, I *fail* to see how that is bad for your game. So, you can't "guarentee" anything, but I can. If you are going to blindly fan something, expect these kinds of conversations.
Am I the only one that's totally turned off by the action? I like the look. I like Jim Lee's vision. I LOVE the IP, but the choppy looking game play reminds me of some bad stop motion picture.
If it gets closer to release and has a more fluid look, I'd be interested, but as of now the "tick-tick-tick-tick" action looks like an older MMO.
ah much as i m glad to see a new superhero mmo on the market i cant understand why the powers that be at dc comics would want soe( the company that failed to come up with much more of a success with no less a franchise than star wars )to develop such a game .
i cant see it being much good . still we ve champions online to look forward to as well that sounds like it has a lot more potential .
It looks like the answer to the original question is: if we try to discuss the game, we will only bicker.
For my part, I thought the best thing CoH had going for it was that it was an original product. I have an aversion to games with a license from some other, larger entity. (EDIT: There is not a force on this Earth powerful enough to make me play Lord of the Rings Online; and I knew SWG wasn't for me the moment I saw Han Solo. I just want to start fresh with something new.)
As a Marvel fan through-and-through (well, halfway through), the idea of being in a universe where the chat window is filled with people debating whether this version of Superman is Pre-Crisis, Post-Crisis, Pre-or-Post-Final Crisis, makes me feel dizzy before even logging on. I don't have anything against the DC mythology, I just have a kind of outsider's skepticism of it. Sigh.
Even Champions Online makes me feel strangely weary/bored -- and I played Champions when I was a teenager. Still, if the game has a good launch, and people seem to be enjoying it, I'll give it a try. I prefer people in spandex flying through the clouds to orcs with broadswords, and as such I am an under-serviced market.
I suggest you get some quality detection because you seem to lack it. Everquest 1 is still a good game and so is Everquest 2. EQ2 and its expansions have all been received very well. EQ2 was the direct competition to World of Warcraft, not Aion, not Age of Conan, not Lord of the rings Online. Everquest 2 was in developed and released as the only title that could have rivaled Blizzard. Right, they failed miserably, because while WoW was fighting login numbers, EQ2 had major systematic problems that made the game unplayable. EQ1 was a success, while it had no competiton in North America, and it was revolutionary, to the point of, RIGHTUm SOE decided at several points that their vision of the game was more important that that of the player, right. Glad they only did this to EQ. Everquest 2 has never stood a chance against World of Warcraft, No MMORPG has. The fanbase is simply to large. Not even the Lineage series could do anything against WoW's numbers. Everquest 1 had plenty of competition, it had to compete with Ultima Online in an age where the MMO genre was very small, and at EQ's peak time it had to compete with a great number of games such as UO,AC, DAOC and FFXI. To say that Everquest never stood a chance against World of Warcraft is simply not true. Both of these titles got a load of side by side press, including here on MMORPG. As far as Ultima Online goes, it was a great game, perhaps still is, the eye candy of EQ was a bit more appealing. The other games you mentioned had some steam, but EQ was pretty much the establishment at the time. Plus the 'massive' online gaming population was much smaller than it is today. If Everquest 2 ever stood a chance then we wouldn't see such a large gap. No game has come anywhere near WoW's numbers, Everquest and SOE do not have the same recognition as Blizzard and Warcraft had when those were released. I haven't played MXO at release, but I have played it after SOE took over and I had a good time. I don't know the current state of Vanguard from what I have heard the changes SOE has made to Vanguard have been for the better. The you should know that SOE did nothing for MxO other than keeping it running for the 20-50k subscribers who gave a damn to watch it progress. Like Tabula Rasa, this game is pretty, and I mean DAMNED pretty, but it offers nothing to anyone. There is no reason to group (other than to PvP), there is no reason to progress, and after a few weeks, you realize, there is no reason to play. The sad thing about MxO, other than SOE buying it, only to let it rot, is that the only major thing SOE did to this game was a combat revamp. Personally, I didn't see that one coming (cough). They couldn't even make SW viable, well, minus their excuses. There is no reason to play ANY mmo besides upgrading your character, its like that in any mmorpg. Sure, upgrading your character is one aspect, but if that is all there is to do, then the game is a failure. If that is the only thing you want to do, then I suggest you go to a F2P MMO. Even WoW has a nice number of things to do that aren't all about epics.
False, EVERYTHING you do in World of Warcraft is related to improving your character, and its like this in any mmorpg because that is the whole driving force behind mmorpgs. Who cares about DC Universe/ The Agency? For one, I do. At least they're doing something new and different from the mmo pack.
New? City of Heroes has been done. It was new once, has a nice community, and they make great contests! I fail to see how a game based on Marvel or DC lore (Cali's Gov as goal) is going to make the next great "MMO". I also fail to see how a game based on being a SPY (individual) is going to make the next great "MMO. "
This hype is bullshit. Their ideas are singular, and not multiplayer. They want a game where you do your own thing, while voice chatting with your real life mates! Oh, right. I meant to play a game where I can meet people, damn....
SOE is a wreck.
wow, 1 whole mmorpg? lets scrap the entire project because one single mmo has already done it. So far very little is known about DC Universe and The Agency, its way to early to already cast judgement, First of all the fact that you consider these games singular already pretty much proves you just let your hatred for SOE decide what you think of the game. The Agency and DC Universe have shown us two gameplay videos (well actually they have shown more, but its just the same part they shown multiple times now) and both of these sections involved grouping. All they have really shown so far is combat, in which both titles prove to be innovative.
You said new. And I saw the combat videos, I don't know how you define "innovative" but I didn't see it there.
Just because one single mmorpg has done it doesn't mean its not new anymore. So far the combat is much more action packed than other mmorpg's, and there is a lot of interaction with physics. You can freeze an enemy and throw it around, you can pick up things like cars and throw them into enemies. Thats never been done in an mmo before.
Some people actually like the concept of a super hero mmo based on DC or playing as a spy (If you think spies work by themself, you need to do a bit more research btw). You don't like it? Fine, nobody is forcing you to come to this section to discuss it. I can guarentee you that nobody who is looking forward to these games is waiting to hear you rant, so I suggest you run off to the section of whatever mmo you're looking forward to.
Edit: Oh nevermind about the last part, I just went over your posthistory and it turns out you have yet to make a single post that does not have a negative attitude.
You want to know what I am happy about? Ryzom making a comeback (I am all smiles about that one). Bioware developing the next Star Wars MMO, and perhaps WAR being a playable game. My last MMO was Tabula Rasa (ended last week). I make no bones about not being an SOE fan. That is why I created this thread. It was the first thread on this site about this game. For one thing, if I generate discussion about the game, and you make good points against mine, I *fail* to see how that is bad for your game. So, you can't "guarentee" anything, but I can. If you are going to blindly fan something, expect these kinds of conversations.
Actually i can guarantee you that no fan of any game is waiting for other people to bash into a game. with all due respect, I have been here a LITTLE bit longer than you have. I never really understood why people feel a need to come into sections about games you're not looking forward to only to bash on it.
If Everquest 2 ever stood a chance then we wouldn't see such a large gap. No game has come anywhere near WoW's numbers, Everquest and SOE do not have the same recognition as Blizzard and Warcraft had when those were released.
Everquest 2 never stood a chance for the simple reason the game sucked. When both games launched each title had pretty good sales. WoW sold more, but EQ2 could barely retain half of the subscribers the first year. I recall the game had around 350k subs early on. Within a year the game was merging servers, doing complete design overhauls of the entire class, quest, craft, solo/group and other systems in the game. The game was simply a mess and continues to fumble along some design path with no solid direction.
If WoW sucked as bad its first year and EQ2 was awesome I bet you EQ2 would have more players.
If Everquest 2 ever stood a chance then we wouldn't see such a large gap. No game has come anywhere near WoW's numbers, Everquest and SOE do not have the same recognition as Blizzard and Warcraft had when those were released.
Everquest 2 never stood a chance for the simple reason the game sucked. When both games launched each title had pretty good sales. WoW sold more, but EQ2 could barely retain half of the subscribers the first year. I recall the game had around 350k subs early on. Within a year the game was merging servers, doing complete design overhauls of the entire class, quest, craft, solo/group and other systems in the game. The game was simply a mess and continues to fumble along some design path with no solid direction.
If WoW sucked as bad its first year and EQ2 was awesome I bet you EQ2 would have more players.
Everquest 2 received an 84% on average, bad games dont get scores like that. Don''t talk about subscribtion numbers if you don't have any source to back it up. If any game was up to it, then honnestly we would have seen a rival by now. I think it's quite funny that you expect a franchise which had barely 500k subscribers at its peak to match an online behemoth such as WoW.
Simply put op as much as I've watched SOE jerk folks around they need to show me a whole lot more for me to care about anyhthing they do, I for one love games set in IP I'm familiar with which seems to be a dwindling desire for folks in mmos but soe has a pretty poor track record by what they release and even more importantly what they do post release the only company i know of thats worse is funcom so as they are concerned I have to see a lot more from them to invest any energies into what they do.
but yeah, to call this game Fantastic is like calling Twilight the Godfather of vampire movies....
Comments
I really don't understand this logic. 3 Superhero games is nothing compared to the giant flood of Fantasy based MMOs out there. You know what? I'm sick of swinging a damned sword, killing orcs and fishing around for whatever the fantasy MMO calls gold pieces. Been there, done that. CoX was a very good game, but it's certainly not the be all end all superhero game many people make it out to be. It had a very, very nice character generator but the gameplay got monotonous very quickly. You can only see the inside of the same cave so many times, no matter what level you are.
Different MMOs approach their genre in different ways. CoX approached it closer to a traditional MMO. By all reports, Champions is approaching it more like Marvel Ultimate Alliance/X-Men Legends, ie an action game. DCU's looking like it might tow the line between the two. Different MMOs, potentially much different playstyles.
Besides, unlike CoX's one city you're constantly stuck in, DCU has the potential of the entire DCU to play in, not to mention untold years of continuity to draw on for content. I, for one, hope they eventually do something with some of the cooler settings such as Rann or Thanagarr, or at least have things more appropriate to individual people's origins. 'sides, only in DCU can I play a Green Lantern without having someone report my character for copyright infractions.
Sure no game is perfect and MMOs are never finished, but when a game needs massive revamps of every core system then it is a pretty sure bet the game was rushed out to market before it was close to being ready. The president of SOE even admitted they rushed the game out to compete with WoW. That is why the game engine suffers to this very day.
Also all of those revamps you see people as receiving positive reactions weren't so positive back in the day. I was a test realm player for EQ2 during the combat revamp and I can tell you most asuradly that people didn't receive that all to well and the overall revamp accomplished nothing. There is a reason the servers were merging not long after all these revamps to crafting, combat, quests, solo vs group, etc. Do you really think 24 classes could be rebalanced all the while changing the combat system, adding 10 new levels and releasing an expansion all at the same time? Vangaurd has also had its share of displeasure with the removal of many things which were key features of the original game. The game performs much better than it once did, but what else has really changed in the year SOE has owned the game? Who cares about MxO, SOE doesn't seem to.
I agree, its puzzling
even Darkfall is on the "quick list" for games in development
Actually, I just found it on the "Select Forum" drop-box in the Dare to be Different: Choose a less active forum banner. Still don't know why it's not listed in the left side bar.
Oh well, at least I don't have to go hunting for it through the news forum anymore...
-------------
The less you expect, the more you'll be surprised. Hopefully, pleasantly so.
Fantasy and SCI-FI can have lots of variation, in style, gameplay, settings and audiance.
The Super Hero, formula is always the same.
Get yourself a nice looking costume at character creation (which you ll never change for the entire life of your character), acquire superpowers (skills), beat the baddies, rinse and repeat.
The environment is usually a city and the audiance is the ultra casual.
I really don't see how anyone can make anything differenty than that.
I agree with you that we need choice and CoH was a welcome change from the usual MMO, but really I cannot see how those others games can offer anything more than CoH
CoH as I said was a really good game for its market and well made too, but let s face it, it wasn't exactly a blockbuster.
It looks like there isn't enough people around who wants toplay a Super Hero game, so I genuinely don't understand all the rush in producing 2 more of them.
while I agree that superhero games are a niche
even for pen&paper RPGs
there are a half dozen DIFFERENT superhero game systems
Hero system (aka Champions)
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Champions_(role-playing_game)
DC Heroes by Mayfair games (out of print)
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DC_Heroes
DC Universe by Westend Games (out of print)
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DC_Universe_Roleplaying_Game
Marvel Universe
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marvel_Universe_Roleplaying_Game
GURPS Supers
www.sjgames.com/gurps/books/supers/
Heroes Unlimited
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heroes_Unlimited
SuperWorld by Chaosium (out of print)
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superworld
Villians and Vigalantes (out of print)
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Villains_and_Vigilantes
Mutants and Masterminds (popular for D20 system)
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mutants_and_Masterminds
it really doesnt matter what the medium is,
theres always room for doing things differently
added links in case anyone wants more info
EQ2 fan sites
The above post actually even omits a couple of other tabletop superhero RPGs. There's also Marvel's SAGA system game from the mid 90s and AEG/Pinnacle's Brave New World ( arguably the best unique setting for a superhero game ever ). Champions/HERO System alone have gone through multitudes of editions, with at least a few of them being quite different in some of their approaches.
The differences between some of these systems can be huge. Classic Marvel Universe, for example, allowed players to be pretty much unlimited in what they wanted to do, allowing their characters to reach Silver Surfer/Cosmic levels of power. Brave New World was decided much weaker, restraining players to what essentially is the B-list heroes. Mutants and Masterminds might actually trump Classic Marvel in pure power versatility and uniqueness.
Really, it's not much different than saying "How many fantasy RPGs can you possibly have?" Answer: hundreds. On the surface D&D, Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay, Rolemaster and 7th Sea are all fantasy RPGs. Ask any fan of them and they'll tell you that each has it's nuances that make them all drastically different just in system alone. Heck, even the various D&D settings can drastically chance the way the game is approached: check out Dark Sun, Ravenloft or Spelljammer for examples.
There's plenty of room for new games, though certain genres ( Fantasy! ) are going to have to be pretty damned unique to fit into the current marketplace. Sci-Fi, Superhero and even The Agency have pretty free reign, though.
And. er. Cough.
Right! Thankius (turn head, cough).
Your experience with SOE is what? Might I ask?
I am having a hard time pin-pointing a game SOE has done correctly since EQ...Please enlighten.
EQ: Made some change, some time, lost it's grip.
EQ2: Crap, that's where our EQ players went AND it was so bad at launch WoW kicked us.
MxO: Opps. hasn't changed, still sucks.
Vanguard: It sucked when we (cough) bought it.
Planet Side: Hold on, this didn't suck! Our lowest sub'd original game.
DC Online/007xOnline? Who cares? They haven't done anything but milk and screw customers since EQ. Trust them to make a decent game? Who knows. If it remains good over 365 days, I'll be shocked.
I suggest you get some quality detection because you seem to lack it. Everquest 1 is still a good game and so is Everquest 2. EQ2 and its expansions have all been received very well.
EQ2 was the direct competition to World of Warcraft, not Aion, not Age of Conan, not Lord of the rings Online. Everquest 2 was in developed and released as the only title that could have rivaled Blizzard. Right, they failed miserably, because while WoW was fighting login numbers, EQ2 had major systematic problems that made the game unplayable. EQ1 was a success, while it had no competiton in North America, and it was revolutionary, to the point of, RIGHT SOE decided at several points that their vision of the game was more important that that of the player, right. Glad they only did this to EQ.
I haven't played MXO at release, but I have played it after SOE took over and I had a good time. I don't know the current state of Vanguard from what I have heard the changes SOE has made to Vanguard have been for the better.
The you should know that SOE did nothing for MxO other than keeping it running for the 20-50k subscribers who gave a damn to watch it progress. Like Tabula Rasa, this game is pretty, and I mean DAMNED pretty, but it offers nothing to anyone. There is no reason to group (other than to PvP), there is no reason to progress, and after a few weeks, you realize, there is no reason to play. The sad thing about MxO, other than SOE buying it, only to let it rot, is that the only major thing SOE did to this game was a combat revamp. Personally, I didn't see that one coming (cough). They couldn't even make SW viable, well, minus their excuses.
Who cares about DC Universe/ The Agency? For one, I do. At least they're doing something new and different from the mmo pack.
New? City of Heroes has been done. It was new once, has a nice community, and they make great contests! I fail to see how a game based on Marvel or DC lore (Cali's Gov as goal) is going to make the next great "MMO". I also fail to see how a game based on being a SPY (individual) is going to make the next great "MMO. "
This hype is bullshit. Their ideas are singular, and not multiplayer. They want a game where you do your own thing, while voice chatting with your real life mates! Oh, right. I meant to play a game where I can meet people, damn....
SOE is a wreck.
You all can say this and that. But the truth is, this game will still have its own community (big or small). I for one will buy this game and play it, im to big of a fan not to buy and try this game out. So keep on keeping on with your excuses for the game, if it sucks, it sucks. If you don't think it will do well, don't buy it, my god, its not like someone is forcing you..............
And. er. Cough.
Right! Thankius (turn head, cough).
Your experience with SOE is what? Might I ask?
I am having a hard time pin-pointing a game SOE has done correctly since EQ...Please enlighten.
EQ: Made some change, some time, lost it's grip.
EQ2: Crap, that's where our EQ players went AND it was so bad at launch WoW kicked us.
MxO: Opps. hasn't changed, still sucks.
Vanguard: It sucked when we (cough) bought it.
Planet Side: Hold on, this didn't suck! Our lowest sub'd original game.
DC Online/007xOnline? Who cares? They haven't done anything but milk and screw customers since EQ. Trust them to make a decent game? Who knows. If it remains good over 365 days, I'll be shocked.
I suggest you get some quality detection because you seem to lack it. Everquest 1 is still a good game and so is Everquest 2. EQ2 and its expansions have all been received very well.
EQ2 was the direct competition to World of Warcraft, not Aion, not Age of Conan, not Lord of the rings Online. Everquest 2 was in developed and released as the only title that could have rivaled Blizzard. Right, they failed miserably, because while WoW was fighting login numbers, EQ2 had major systematic problems that made the game unplayable. EQ1 was a success, while it had no competiton in North America, and it was revolutionary, to the point of, RIGHTUm SOE decided at several points that their vision of the game was more important that that of the player, right. Glad they only did this to EQ.
Everquest 2 has never stood a chance against World of Warcraft, No MMORPG has. The fanbase is simply to large. Not even the Lineage series could do anything against WoW's numbers. Everquest 1 had plenty of competition, it had to compete with Ultima Online in an age where the MMO genre was very small, and at EQ's peak time it had to compete with a great number of games such as UO,AC, DAOC and FFXI.
I haven't played MXO at release, but I have played it after SOE took over and I had a good time. I don't know the current state of Vanguard from what I have heard the changes SOE has made to Vanguard have been for the better.
The you should know that SOE did nothing for MxO other than keeping it running for the 20-50k subscribers who gave a damn to watch it progress. Like Tabula Rasa, this game is pretty, and I mean DAMNED pretty, but it offers nothing to anyone. There is no reason to group (other than to PvP), there is no reason to progress, and after a few weeks, you realize, there is no reason to play. The sad thing about MxO, other than SOE buying it, only to let it rot, is that the only major thing SOE did to this game was a combat revamp. Personally, I didn't see that one coming (cough). They couldn't even make SW viable, well, minus their excuses.
There is no reason to play ANY mmo besides upgrading your character, its like that in any mmorpg.
Who cares about DC Universe/ The Agency? For one, I do. At least they're doing something new and different from the mmo pack.
New? City of Heroes has been done. It was new once, has a nice community, and they make great contests! I fail to see how a game based on Marvel or DC lore (Cali's Gov as goal) is going to make the next great "MMO". I also fail to see how a game based on being a SPY (individual) is going to make the next great "MMO. "
This hype is bullshit. Their ideas are singular, and not multiplayer. They want a game where you do your own thing, while voice chatting with your real life mates! Oh, right. I meant to play a game where I can meet people, damn....
SOE is a wreck.
wow, 1 whole mmorpg? lets scrap the entire project because one single mmo has already done it. So far very little is known about DC Universe and The Agency, its way to early to already cast judgement, First of all the fact that you consider these games singular already pretty much proves you just let your hatred for SOE decide what you think of the game. The Agency and DC Universe have shown us two gameplay videos (well actually they have shown more, but its just the same part they shown multiple times now) and both of these sections involved grouping. All they have really shown so far is combat, in which both titles prove to be innovative.
Some people actually like the concept of a super hero mmo based on DC or playing as a spy (If you think spies work by themself, you need to do a bit more research btw). You don't like it? Fine, nobody is forcing you to come to this section to discuss it. I can guarentee you that nobody who is looking forward to these games is waiting to hear you rant, so I suggest you run off to the section of whatever mmo you're looking forward to.
Edit: Oh nevermind about the last part, I just went over your posthistory and it turns out you have yet to make a single post that does not have a negative attitude.
New? City of Heroes has been done. It was new once, has a nice community, and they make great contests! I fail to see how a game based on Marvel or DC lore (Cali's Gov as goal) is going to make the next great "MMO". I also fail to see how a game based on being a SPY (individual) is going to make the next great "MMO. "
This hype is bullshit. Their ideas are singular, and not multiplayer. They want a game where you do your own thing, while voice chatting with your real life mates! Oh, right. I meant to play a game where I can meet people, damn....
SOE is a wreck.
wow, 1 whole mmorpg? lets scrap the entire project because one single mmo has already done it. So far very little is known about DC Universe and The Agency, its way to early to already cast judgement, First of all the fact that you consider these games singular already pretty much proves you just let your hatred for SOE decide what you think of the game. The Agency and DC Universe have shown us two gameplay videos (well actually they have shown more, but its just the same part they shown multiple times now) and both of these sections involved grouping. All they have really shown so far is combat, in which both titles prove to be innovative.
You said new. And I saw the combat videos, I don't know how you define "innovative" but I didn't see it there.
Some people actually like the concept of a super hero mmo based on DC or playing as a spy (If you think spies work by themself, you need to do a bit more research btw). You don't like it? Fine, nobody is forcing you to come to this section to discuss it. I can guarentee you that nobody who is looking forward to these games is waiting to hear you rant, so I suggest you run off to the section of whatever mmo you're looking forward to.
Edit: Oh nevermind about the last part, I just went over your posthistory and it turns out you have yet to make a single post that does not have a negative attitude.
You want to know what I am happy about? Ryzom making a comeback (I am all smiles about that one). Bioware developing the next Star Wars MMO, and perhaps WAR being a playable game. My last MMO was Tabula Rasa (ended last week). I make no bones about not being an SOE fan. That is why I created this thread. It was the first thread on this site about this game. For one thing, if I generate discussion about the game, and you make good points against mine, I *fail* to see how that is bad for your game. So, you can't "guarentee" anything, but I can. If you are going to blindly fan something, expect these kinds of conversations.
Am I the only one that's totally turned off by the action? I like the look. I like Jim Lee's vision. I LOVE the IP, but the choppy looking game play reminds me of some bad stop motion picture.
If it gets closer to release and has a more fluid look, I'd be interested, but as of now the "tick-tick-tick-tick" action looks like an older MMO.
ah much as i m glad to see a new superhero mmo on the market i cant understand why the powers that be at dc comics would want soe( the company that failed to come up with much more of a success with no less a franchise than star wars )to develop such a game .
i cant see it being much good . still we ve champions online to look forward to as well that sounds like it has a lot more potential .
It looks like the answer to the original question is: if we try to discuss the game, we will only bicker.
For my part, I thought the best thing CoH had going for it was that it was an original product. I have an aversion to games with a license from some other, larger entity. (EDIT: There is not a force on this Earth powerful enough to make me play Lord of the Rings Online; and I knew SWG wasn't for me the moment I saw Han Solo. I just want to start fresh with something new.)
As a Marvel fan through-and-through (well, halfway through), the idea of being in a universe where the chat window is filled with people debating whether this version of Superman is Pre-Crisis, Post-Crisis, Pre-or-Post-Final Crisis, makes me feel dizzy before even logging on. I don't have anything against the DC mythology, I just have a kind of outsider's skepticism of it. Sigh.
Even Champions Online makes me feel strangely weary/bored -- and I played Champions when I was a teenager. Still, if the game has a good launch, and people seem to be enjoying it, I'll give it a try. I prefer people in spandex flying through the clouds to orcs with broadswords, and as such I am an under-serviced market.
New? City of Heroes has been done. It was new once, has a nice community, and they make great contests! I fail to see how a game based on Marvel or DC lore (Cali's Gov as goal) is going to make the next great "MMO". I also fail to see how a game based on being a SPY (individual) is going to make the next great "MMO. "
This hype is bullshit. Their ideas are singular, and not multiplayer. They want a game where you do your own thing, while voice chatting with your real life mates! Oh, right. I meant to play a game where I can meet people, damn....
SOE is a wreck.
wow, 1 whole mmorpg? lets scrap the entire project because one single mmo has already done it. So far very little is known about DC Universe and The Agency, its way to early to already cast judgement, First of all the fact that you consider these games singular already pretty much proves you just let your hatred for SOE decide what you think of the game. The Agency and DC Universe have shown us two gameplay videos (well actually they have shown more, but its just the same part they shown multiple times now) and both of these sections involved grouping. All they have really shown so far is combat, in which both titles prove to be innovative.
You said new. And I saw the combat videos, I don't know how you define "innovative" but I didn't see it there.
Just because one single mmorpg has done it doesn't mean its not new anymore. So far the combat is much more action packed than other mmorpg's, and there is a lot of interaction with physics. You can freeze an enemy and throw it around, you can pick up things like cars and throw them into enemies. Thats never been done in an mmo before.
Some people actually like the concept of a super hero mmo based on DC or playing as a spy (If you think spies work by themself, you need to do a bit more research btw). You don't like it? Fine, nobody is forcing you to come to this section to discuss it. I can guarentee you that nobody who is looking forward to these games is waiting to hear you rant, so I suggest you run off to the section of whatever mmo you're looking forward to.
Edit: Oh nevermind about the last part, I just went over your posthistory and it turns out you have yet to make a single post that does not have a negative attitude.
You want to know what I am happy about? Ryzom making a comeback (I am all smiles about that one). Bioware developing the next Star Wars MMO, and perhaps WAR being a playable game. My last MMO was Tabula Rasa (ended last week). I make no bones about not being an SOE fan. That is why I created this thread. It was the first thread on this site about this game. For one thing, if I generate discussion about the game, and you make good points against mine, I *fail* to see how that is bad for your game. So, you can't "guarentee" anything, but I can. If you are going to blindly fan something, expect these kinds of conversations.
Actually i can guarantee you that no fan of any game is waiting for other people to bash into a game. with all due respect, I have been here a LITTLE bit longer than you have. I never really understood why people feel a need to come into sections about games you're not looking forward to only to bash on it.
Everquest 2 never stood a chance for the simple reason the game sucked. When both games launched each title had pretty good sales. WoW sold more, but EQ2 could barely retain half of the subscribers the first year. I recall the game had around 350k subs early on. Within a year the game was merging servers, doing complete design overhauls of the entire class, quest, craft, solo/group and other systems in the game. The game was simply a mess and continues to fumble along some design path with no solid direction.
If WoW sucked as bad its first year and EQ2 was awesome I bet you EQ2 would have more players.
Everquest 2 never stood a chance for the simple reason the game sucked. When both games launched each title had pretty good sales. WoW sold more, but EQ2 could barely retain half of the subscribers the first year. I recall the game had around 350k subs early on. Within a year the game was merging servers, doing complete design overhauls of the entire class, quest, craft, solo/group and other systems in the game. The game was simply a mess and continues to fumble along some design path with no solid direction.
If WoW sucked as bad its first year and EQ2 was awesome I bet you EQ2 would have more players.
Everquest 2 received an 84% on average, bad games dont get scores like that. Don''t talk about subscribtion numbers if you don't have any source to back it up. If any game was up to it, then honnestly we would have seen a rival by now. I think it's quite funny that you expect a franchise which had barely 500k subscribers at its peak to match an online behemoth such as WoW.
Simply put op as much as I've watched SOE jerk folks around they need to show me a whole lot more for me to care about anyhthing they do, I for one love games set in IP I'm familiar with which seems to be a dwindling desire for folks in mmos but soe has a pretty poor track record by what they release and even more importantly what they do post release the only company i know of thats worse is funcom so as they are concerned I have to see a lot more from them to invest any energies into what they do.
but yeah, to call this game Fantastic is like calling Twilight the Godfather of vampire movies....
Hey could you tell me where i can go to download the game?
darwin
Uhhhh... because this all seems very gay to me and me thinks some people will follow after anything. This crap was for our grandparents guys. Move on.