Problem isn't the balance. Its people who dont know how to pvp or pvp as a team. Ive taken more than my share of classes and done fine with all. Mage is far from easy as one may think but it certainly doesn't have the problems that you would say it has.
If one class has to use teamwork and other classes don't, that indicates imbalance right there.
Originally posted by fizzle322 I was specifically talking about Battlegrounds which is nothing more than 1v1 on a mass scale.
What? No... it's not. This is why I vowed never to PvP in WoW again. Everyone is a freaking PvP expert and yet somehow miss all the basic points.
A battleground is NOT the same as 1v1. You won't receive incoming heals in a 1v1. You can't lure your opponent into nearby AoEs in a 1v1. You can't lock your opponent down with CC and wait for help in a 1v1. You can do all these things in a battleground, and your opponent has an opportunity to do the same to you.
Now, I mostly agree with the rest of what you were trying to say, just this one statement was incredibly dumb. Even the smallest battlegrounds are as far from 1v1 as you will ever get.
Then make an arena team, Get a good partner, get better, and be the #1 team in your battlegroup. There are an ENDLESS number of these posts on the blizz forums. If pvp isnt balenced, dont do pvp. Paper is fine, Nerf rock. ~Scissors
Arena isn't balanced either (especially 2v2), and I'm talking from a standpoint of having a lock and rogue both on 2200+ teams. It's easy mode if you have the right classes and not a complete noob atm. It's very class and makeup dependent.
Class + Gear > Skill for the most part cept in mirrors.
As long as you have ppl like Tom Chilton working for Blizzard, PvP will NEVER be balanced. 4 classes totally dominate battlegrounds, and the rest are just free honor kills. You got invisible people walking around that can stun you for damn near the whole fight, so you can't even fight back, and if they start losing no problem they just vanish into thin air. Stunlock is not as easy as it seems. You got Warlocks running around doing dot dot dot fear dot dot dot fear dot dot dot fear. Fear is on dimishing returns and never works as intended. You cannot fear someone for eternity. Use your trinket. Basically they put insta-cast damage over time spells on you, and then fear you so you just run around and can't control your character. Their felpuppy pet can solo a mage by itself because it eats mana. No it can't it Devours Magic and detects Rogues. You got Warrior/Pally combos running around, Warrior swinging a big axe that does 3k damage a swing, Pally running behind healing him. If you attack the pally he bubbles T his is on a cooldown se it to your advantage himself and becomes invincible while the Warrior 3-shots you. Meanwhile Mages can only enter battlegrounds with 1 tree, frost, because it gives you ice barrier all mages get Ice Barrier and two ice blocks for when you meet Mr Rogue Mr Warlock Mr Warrior and Mr Hunter. Basic strategy Mage vs Warlock, just run away, you are a free kill, you won't even get a spell off before you get dotted up and feared. Yes, Warlocks beat Rogues. Warlocks loose to Rogues, Warriors and Hunters. Mages beat Melee. Mage version of crowd control? Sheep, WHICH HEALS YOUR OPPONENTS TO FULL. So if the warrior is wailing on you, and if you can cast sheep, you can breath easy for 6 seconds, while sheep heals him to full. Mage main nukes are 3 second cast fireball and 2.5 second cast frost bolt, but almost nobody uses them. You can't use 3 second cast spells in battlegrounds, because of spell pushback, if someone attacks you you start recasting from the beginning. You try to explain all this on the Blizzard forums you get the same answer from blue all the time. "We don't balance the game for 1v1" BG isn't 1v1, it's 10v10, 15v15, etc.. Which basically means "yeah we know the game isn't balanced." Bottom line if you love PvP or like to play Mage characters in games, then just find another game. Their lead game balance guy basically hates Mages. Basic logic dictates that if a character has the LOWEST armor and LOWEST health in the game, he should do the most damage right? Instead Blizzard has implemented a policy of "equalization." What that means is that hybrid classes, leather classes, mail classes, even plate classes, can ALL do as much if not more dps than a guy wearing a robe. Yes the plate wearing warrior with 12000 hp with the right spec can outdps a robe-wearing Mage with 7000 hp. You need better gear if you only have 7000 health But wait there's more. Basic logic dictates that if your main tool is stealth, then you can't also have the best damage in the game, because then why would anyone want to be visible and also do LESS damage? That just doesn't make sense. And yet, the class that walks around invisible is also the one with the highest dps in the game. You must mean mages as they are the only ones that go invisible Thats like cloakers in Planetside carrying Jackhammers while ppl in Rexo armor carry pistols. Thats like covert ops in Eve carrying a Doomsday Device while Battleships all have 2 small railguns. I have never seen such complete lack of balance in any game. And Blizz justifies it with 7 simple words : "We dont balance the game for 1v1" More like you don't balance the game at ALL.
I was specifically talking about Battlegrounds which is nothing more than 1v1 on a mass scale.
What? No... it's not. This is why I vowed never to PvP in WoW again. Everyone is a freaking PvP expert and yet somehow miss all the basic points.
A battleground is NOT the same as 1v1. You won't receive incoming heals in a 1v1. You can't lure your opponent into nearby AoEs in a 1v1. You can't lock your opponent down with CC and wait for help in a 1v1. You can do all these things in a battleground, and your opponent has an opportunity to do the same to you.
Now, I mostly agree with the rest of what you were trying to say, just this one statement was incredibly dumb. Even the smallest battlegrounds are as far from 1v1 as you will ever get.
This is mostly a class dependent viewpoint.
Mage tactics in battlegrounds is you have to try to sit at the edge of a battle and nuke, you have to try to use LOS and hide behind trees, etc.
So when a rogue comes over to say hi, there is nobody to help you, there are no heals, its just you and him 30 yards from everybody else.
Everybody specifically goes after Mages first, because they know you have 7k health and wearing cloth, in Eve terms its live flying a Scorpion, you are always the first to be called "Primary."
For all the problems in Eve at least it has excellent PvP balance.
If you die in Eve it was basically a mistake you made.
If you die in WoW the mistake was you chose the wrong class.
And quite frankly, he is right. You can NOT balance any MMO perfectly for 1 on 1 PvP. You will always have tiers. Some classes will always be netter and some will always be worse, that is inevitable. Fighting games don't have perfect balance and that whole genre was built off 1 on 1 fighting. Perfect balance would mean every one being the same class and the same spec and having the same gear. There, there is your perfect 1 on 1 balance.
The only way you would have any hope of balancing PvP is to remove stats from all gear, that way you'd be more equal and not have S4 v. Greens...
Trinket is 5 minute cooldown and theres nothing stopping him from fearing you twice.
A gnome mage in 70 pvp gear has ~ 7k health unbuffed.
A human mage in 70 pvp gear has ~ 7.5k health unbuffed.
Even if you dont get feared, a Warlock can outdps a Mage and has more hp, so even if you stand at 30 paces and cast with no fear and no cc, Mage still loses.
I like how everybody is trying to defend the imbalances they currently enjoy.
I don't know what Kalgan's personal psychosis is, but for whatever reason he has a hardon for making sure 4 classes dominate PvP and everybody else bends over.
Dont think just because Blizz is a huge company they cant be hurt.
Then make an arena team, Get a good partner, get better, and be the #1 team in your battlegroup. There are an ENDLESS number of these posts on the blizz forums. If pvp isnt balenced, dont do pvp. Paper is fine, Nerf rock. ~Scissors
Arena isn't balanced either (especially 2v2), and I'm talking from a standpoint of having a lock and rogue both on 2200+ teams. It's easy mode if you have the right classes and not a complete noob atm. It's very class and makeup dependent.
Class + Gear > Skill for the most part cept in mirrors.
But you see, this is the nature of the beast.
1v1 or even 2v2 "balance" is only obtainable unless you dumb things down, and then it becomes a matter of chance, not skill, who wins the contest.
The game would be pretty boring if that were the case. You'd have nonstop zerging, ala most FPS games.
Now, zerging can be fun. But even WoW's relatively simple combat system had depth to it that most players fail to see, or fail to find, because they're totally mesmerized by DPS in the most simple straightforward way.
Mages are SUPPOSED to be glass cannons. The price of having all that DPS is being as fragile as hell. It's the way they're designed. The entire idea is that you're supposed to go into PvP on a group basis with other players of different classes who play roles that you're not supposed to play.
CH, Jedi, Commando, Smuggler, BH, Scout, Doctor, Chef, BE...yeah, lots of SWG time invested.
Then make an arena team, Get a good partner, get better, and be the #1 team in your battlegroup. There are an ENDLESS number of these posts on the blizz forums. If pvp isnt balenced, dont do pvp. Paper is fine, Nerf rock. ~Scissors
Arena isn't balanced either (especially 2v2), and I'm talking from a standpoint of having a lock and rogue both on 2200+ teams. It's easy mode if you have the right classes and not a complete noob atm. It's very class and makeup dependent.
Class + Gear > Skill for the most part cept in mirrors.
But you see, this is the nature of the beast.
1v1 or even 2v2 "balance" is only obtainable unless you dumb things down, and then it becomes a matter of chance, not skill, who wins the contest.
The game would be pretty boring if that were the case. You'd have nonstop zerging, ala most FPS games.
Now, zerging can be fun. But even WoW's relatively simple combat system had depth to it that most players fail to see, or fail to find, because they're totally mesmerized by DPS in the most simple straightforward way.
Mages are SUPPOSED to be glass cannons. The price of having all that DPS is being as fragile as hell. It's the way they're designed. The entire idea is that you're supposed to go into PvP on a group basis with other players of different classes who play roles that you're not supposed to play.
My lock and rogue hasn't lost to a mage 1v1 in duel since TBC. Arenawise 2v2 we beat them 90% of the time with mage on other team. But then my pard is a drood OPed teams ftw.
Trinket is 5 minute cooldown and theres nothing stopping him from fearing you twice.
A gnome mage in 70 pvp gear has ~ 7k health unbuffed.
A human mage in 70 pvp gear has ~ 7.5k health unbuffed.
Even if you dont get feared, a Warlock can outdps a Mage and has more hp, so even if you stand at 30 paces and cast with no fear and no cc, Mage still loses.
I like how everybody is trying to defend the imbalances they currently enjoy.
I don't know what Kalgan's personal psychosis is, but for whatever reason he has a hardon for making sure 4 classes dominate PvP and everybody else bends over.
Dont think just because Blizz is a huge company they cant be hurt.
They can be hurt just like Walmart can be hurt.
By the way Age of Conan sucks.
What I find really funny about this thread is the OP is complaining about mages being too weak.... and after 3 years of playing and having a lvl 60+ of every class, I chose a mage as my pvp character. The only class I have trouble with are enhancement shaman.. and thankfully, everyone thinks they are weak so i don't see them very often.
And just 'wow' if you think BGs are just glorified 1v1 fights. Especially in AV.. if you aren't using Blizzard at choke points you aren't very useful to your team. If you aren't using AE while defending galv, you aen't useful to your team. In WSG.. mages make the best defenders. I get all the way up on the top roof, when an enemy goes for the flag, I get two FBs off on him, then jump down and nova him. It's very hard for even druids to get out of the flag room if you do that.
Originally Mage tactics in battlegrounds is you have to try to sit at the edge of a battle and nuke, you have to try to use LOS and hide behind trees, etc. So when a rogue comes over to say hi, there is nobody to help you, there are no heals, its just you and him 30 yards from everybody else. Everybody specifically goes after Mages first, because they know you have 7k health and wearing cloth, in Eve terms its live flying a Scorpion, you are always the first to be called "Primary." For all the problems in Eve at least it has excellent PvP balance. If you die in Eve it was basically a mistake you made. If you die in WoW the mistake was you chose the wrong class.
Sorry, if you gear yourself as a glass cannon, you don't get to cry when you get 3 shotted. Few classes can control a BG battle like a mage can. If you want to go toe-to-toe and cast spells at people you rolled the wrong class. Do you seriously expect players to sit there while you cast from melee range? Also, if you can't avoid a single rogue that breaks away from the pack and comes after you - well, you need to play something else - a mage isn't for you. Of all my toons, the mage is my favorite to PvP with.
BTW: If you really think you're gettting targeted first in BG's, try rolling a priest or warlock - there's no comparison.
As long as you have ppl like Tom Chilton working for Blizzard, PvP will NEVER be balanced.
I don't know, he seems to be doing a pretty good job if you ask me. I don't think Blizzard is too upset with having 10 million plus subscribers, being ranked #1 MMO by the likes of Gamerankings.com and having held the #1 spot for players on Xfire for 1059 days and counting. Perhaps things are bit better than you believe and you're over reacting just a bit?
Success doesn't mean the PvP is balanced.
Which is more important? Success or the OP's belief that the PvP is balanced? The fact is that millions of people participate in the so-called unbalanced PvP every month. I don't think Tom Chilton gives a rat's behind if the OP thinks it's balanced or not. I don't either.
As long as you have ppl like Tom Chilton working for Blizzard, PvP will NEVER be balanced.
I don't know, he seems to be doing a pretty good job if you ask me. I don't think Blizzard is too upset with having 10 million plus subscribers, being ranked #1 MMO by the likes of Gamerankings.com and having held the #1 spot for players on Xfire for 1059 days and counting. Perhaps things are bit better than you believe and you're over reacting just a bit?
How does that have anything to do with PvP? How do you know that half of those people playing are only playing because their friends are, and their friends are playing because of PvE? See, there's so many factors, but I highly doubt that anything you just said proves WoW has "balanced" PvP.
It has to do with the job that Tom Chilton is doing which is exceptional. I know this because the Battlegrounds are full everytime I play. I know this because the PvP forums are filled with posts everyday about how unbalanced it is. If it were as unbalanced as they say it is, they would have quit playing a long time ago, but they continue to play. I don't have to prove that WoW is balanced. I don't have to prove that Tom Chilton is doing a good job. The fact that millions upon millions of people subscribe to the game and participate in the PvP every month is evidence enough that the PvP is fine the way it is despite what you or the OP think and that Tom Chilton is doing a great job.
If you haven't realized by now that 1v1 in WoW is at the absolute bottom of Blizzards to do list then where you have you been these last 3 and a half years?
This game is the new wave of babysitter for children. They want to make it the flashiest cartooniest grindfest there ever was a korean f2p game that you got charged for. WoW developers just don't care about balancing classes as they have set their eyes on group long ago once they realized they were failures at balancing 1v1.
You ppl who call me a "duelist" are tools. I was specifically talking about Battlegrounds which is nothing more than 1v1 on a mass scale. Yeah you have 40 people fighting each other, but once you pick out a target or someone picks YOU out, it BECOMES a 1 on 1. You must be an alliance player... Only alliance have this mentality. I don't know how you play AV on your server but where I'm from the 40 split, 30 usually head to O and 10 stay back for D and we never split up and run off solo. When we fight we fight as a team. I don't think I have ever had to 1 v 1 someone in AV in 3 years. Reason for this is because I'm not a hero, I play for the team, I run with the team, I kill as a team for the team. When I take aim at a player and he becomes my target he is also the target of the 15 or so guys and gals standing next to me. It is how we are effective killers. 15 people attacking someone, he/she dies much faster than 15 people attacking 15 different targets. PvP Is balanced fine. As a mage your suppose to be physically weaker. I also don't know who told you rogues hit harder than a mage but they are full of shit. They might can attack FASTER than a mage but never harder. The only class in wow that can even stand next to you in damage is a warlock, that is because a mage and a warlock are opposite sides of the same coin. Though a warlock tends to come out on top most of the time. If you don't know this about mages then you are doing it wrong. Stop playing mage and try something else. If your going to stick with it, learn to play it. I will give you some mage tips for pvp. #1. Screw Fire - enough said, Go for survival and go deep ice with some arcane for mana management. #2. Screw Polymorph - Polymorph is used by suckers, your a mage you don't need crowd control, you have hunter traps, warlock fears, paladin justice, and the such for that. Your CC comes in the form of frost nova. Nova those bitches in place, 1 quick blink away and a few frost bolts later and your fine. Mages are ment to destroy shit not turn it into a sheep. Polymorph should only be used as a escape move to run away, or in a larger scale fight to hold the strongest at bay long enough to be ganged up on. #3. Move Around. Mages are excellent at bursting all over the map. You can't hold a mage where he doesn't want to be. Blink breaks CC for you. (it can also get you into trouble though. see warriors charge). If you go deep Ice you have 3 frost novas at your command. Initial, cold snap recharge and your elementals nova spell. That is plenty of freezing to manipulate the area around you allowing you to pick and choose your targets. #4. Stay Random. Do random shit, arcane explode in the middle of running for no reason at all. You have a reason for it, but the enemy doesn't know that, they just think your insane. This keeps rogues at bay from you. 1 random arcane explosion when they are to close = death for rogue. They are a lot less likely to try to sneak up on a mage who does random off the wall shit like blinking all over the map, AEing at random. It gives you the appearance of a rogue hunter. They think if your actively trying to seek them out like that, your obviously very good at killing rogues. Trust me it will work in your favor. #5. Mages are still good. Listen dude mages are just as good as any other class if placed in the hands of someone who can play the class, knows it's strengths and weaknesses and exploits them very well. I say you just forget about balance and play the game. I will leave you with this. WoW just like in Real Life has this one rule. "No matter how bad ass you think you are.... There is ALWAYS someone out there more bad ass than you." "You win some, you lose some, but you live to fight another day."
I understand you are fustrated any maybe you even regret writing this rant, now that you've taken a breather. However, I will still take the time to address this issue. First off, I am a Mage, so hopefully I have more credibility in your eyes. Secondly, I've played over a dozen MMORPGs, with my first MMO and longest time played in a game being DAoC, which is a PvP centric game. So hopefully that adds a little more credibility to my post too.
Blizzards balancing tactic, group balancing, is not new. DAoC balances PvP for groups, as does EvE, as does just about any serious PvP game. This is because PvP is meant to be a group activity. Hell, this is even evident in WoW, as the majority of PvP happens in BG's or the Arena. BG's especially are all about group cooperation to accomplish a goal. You used a Warrior/Paladin duo example, but you failed to include a Mage/insert class duo comparison.
My point in that Mages are great classes, even in PvP, you just need to realize what their strength is and compensate with other classes in your team for your weaknesses. Your lessons learned in PvE on how to survive and who to bring with you for more survivability shouldn't go out the window when you enter a PvP area.
MMORPG's w/ Max level characters: DAoC, SWG, & WoW
Currently Playing: WAR Preferred Playstyle: Roleplay/adventurous, in a sandbox game.
The devs from Blizzard have already said that PvP is balanced around 5v5.
Now if you go to the arena rankings and look at the 2000+ rated 5man teams, you will see that the class makeup of teams is very very diverse. Restro Druids and Arms warriors are slightlly overrepresented, but everyone else is in a big pile with only a few %s seperating them. If the best teams are chosing different classes for their team, then that tells me that Blizzard has succeeded. Also if you look at the expansion.. the two classes that are slightly overrepresented are getting slight pvp nerfs. Restro druids are going to lose Feral charge (got moved to a 21 feral talent rather than 11), and the new Arms talents aren't so great for pvp.
This is just another thread by a bad player who's mage got Ambushed by a rogue and he wasn't smart enough to get away.
Of course they don't balance WoW for 1v1, it's utterly ridiculous to think that they would. It's for this reason that there is no 1v1 arena, only 2v2, 3v3, and 5v5. It's why PvE dungeon instances are group / raid only. It's not a singleplayer game.
Whatever class is played, someone, somewhere will think it's overpowered. There's not a single class that escapes the "OP" accusation.
That my friends is the greatest sign that WoW is balanced as well as one could hope for in a game with so much diversity among classes and the talent trees.
As for rogues and stunlock? Please... learn to play, seriously. You really don't know how to play.
Still waiting for your Holy Grail MMORPG? Interesting...
Comments
If one class has to use teamwork and other classes don't, that indicates imbalance right there.
What? No... it's not. This is why I vowed never to PvP in WoW again. Everyone is a freaking PvP expert and yet somehow miss all the basic points.
A battleground is NOT the same as 1v1. You won't receive incoming heals in a 1v1. You can't lure your opponent into nearby AoEs in a 1v1. You can't lock your opponent down with CC and wait for help in a 1v1. You can do all these things in a battleground, and your opponent has an opportunity to do the same to you.
Now, I mostly agree with the rest of what you were trying to say, just this one statement was incredibly dumb. Even the smallest battlegrounds are as far from 1v1 as you will ever get.
Arena isn't balanced either (especially 2v2), and I'm talking from a standpoint of having a lock and rogue both on 2200+ teams. It's easy mode if you have the right classes and not a complete noob atm. It's very class and makeup dependent.
Class + Gear > Skill for the most part cept in mirrors.
You should go play AoC, you'd be happier there...
What? No... it's not. This is why I vowed never to PvP in WoW again. Everyone is a freaking PvP expert and yet somehow miss all the basic points.
A battleground is NOT the same as 1v1. You won't receive incoming heals in a 1v1. You can't lure your opponent into nearby AoEs in a 1v1. You can't lock your opponent down with CC and wait for help in a 1v1. You can do all these things in a battleground, and your opponent has an opportunity to do the same to you.
Now, I mostly agree with the rest of what you were trying to say, just this one statement was incredibly dumb. Even the smallest battlegrounds are as far from 1v1 as you will ever get.
This is mostly a class dependent viewpoint.
Mage tactics in battlegrounds is you have to try to sit at the edge of a battle and nuke, you have to try to use LOS and hide behind trees, etc.
So when a rogue comes over to say hi, there is nobody to help you, there are no heals, its just you and him 30 yards from everybody else.
Everybody specifically goes after Mages first, because they know you have 7k health and wearing cloth, in Eve terms its live flying a Scorpion, you are always the first to be called "Primary."
For all the problems in Eve at least it has excellent PvP balance.
If you die in Eve it was basically a mistake you made.
If you die in WoW the mistake was you chose the wrong class.
The only way you would have any hope of balancing PvP is to remove stats from all gear, that way you'd be more equal and not have S4 v. Greens...
yea dude we were playing in arena against a 3v3 team of all mages and they were virtually unbeatable, i dunno what this person is complaining about
No, stop trying to spread misinformatrion.
Ice Barrier is a 31 point Ice talent.
Trinket is 5 minute cooldown and theres nothing stopping him from fearing you twice.
A gnome mage in 70 pvp gear has ~ 7k health unbuffed.
A human mage in 70 pvp gear has ~ 7.5k health unbuffed.
Even if you dont get feared, a Warlock can outdps a Mage and has more hp, so even if you stand at 30 paces and cast with no fear and no cc, Mage still loses.
I like how everybody is trying to defend the imbalances they currently enjoy.
I don't know what Kalgan's personal psychosis is, but for whatever reason he has a hardon for making sure 4 classes dominate PvP and everybody else bends over.
Dont think just because Blizz is a huge company they cant be hurt.
They can be hurt just like Walmart can be hurt.
By the way Age of Conan sucks.
Balancing doesnt have to be that drastic.
Its simple things.
Ppl have made 30 page threads on the Mage boards but nobody from blue reads them.
Ppl have made all kinds of very reasonable suggestions.
In the past year there have been exactly TWO blue posts in the Mage forum.
Our forum is like the ghetto, where you dial 911 and the devs dont show up.
Arena isn't balanced either (especially 2v2), and I'm talking from a standpoint of having a lock and rogue both on 2200+ teams. It's easy mode if you have the right classes and not a complete noob atm. It's very class and makeup dependent.
Class + Gear > Skill for the most part cept in mirrors.
But you see, this is the nature of the beast.
1v1 or even 2v2 "balance" is only obtainable unless you dumb things down, and then it becomes a matter of chance, not skill, who wins the contest.
The game would be pretty boring if that were the case. You'd have nonstop zerging, ala most FPS games.
Now, zerging can be fun. But even WoW's relatively simple combat system had depth to it that most players fail to see, or fail to find, because they're totally mesmerized by DPS in the most simple straightforward way.
Mages are SUPPOSED to be glass cannons. The price of having all that DPS is being as fragile as hell. It's the way they're designed. The entire idea is that you're supposed to go into PvP on a group basis with other players of different classes who play roles that you're not supposed to play.
CH, Jedi, Commando, Smuggler, BH, Scout, Doctor, Chef, BE...yeah, lots of SWG time invested.
Once a denizen of Ahazi
Arena isn't balanced either (especially 2v2), and I'm talking from a standpoint of having a lock and rogue both on 2200+ teams. It's easy mode if you have the right classes and not a complete noob atm. It's very class and makeup dependent.
Class + Gear > Skill for the most part cept in mirrors.
But you see, this is the nature of the beast.
1v1 or even 2v2 "balance" is only obtainable unless you dumb things down, and then it becomes a matter of chance, not skill, who wins the contest.
The game would be pretty boring if that were the case. You'd have nonstop zerging, ala most FPS games.
Now, zerging can be fun. But even WoW's relatively simple combat system had depth to it that most players fail to see, or fail to find, because they're totally mesmerized by DPS in the most simple straightforward way.
Mages are SUPPOSED to be glass cannons. The price of having all that DPS is being as fragile as hell. It's the way they're designed. The entire idea is that you're supposed to go into PvP on a group basis with other players of different classes who play roles that you're not supposed to play.
My lock and rogue hasn't lost to a mage 1v1 in duel since TBC. Arenawise 2v2 we beat them 90% of the time with mage on other team. But then my pard is a drood
OPed teams ftw.
Anyone that thinks a basically PVE game is going to be "balanced" (whatever that means) for PvP is in the wrong game.
No, stop trying to spread misinformatrion.
Ice Barrier is a 31 point Ice talent.
Trinket is 5 minute cooldown and theres nothing stopping him from fearing you twice.
A gnome mage in 70 pvp gear has ~ 7k health unbuffed.
A human mage in 70 pvp gear has ~ 7.5k health unbuffed.
Even if you dont get feared, a Warlock can outdps a Mage and has more hp, so even if you stand at 30 paces and cast with no fear and no cc, Mage still loses.
I like how everybody is trying to defend the imbalances they currently enjoy.
I don't know what Kalgan's personal psychosis is, but for whatever reason he has a hardon for making sure 4 classes dominate PvP and everybody else bends over.
Dont think just because Blizz is a huge company they cant be hurt.
They can be hurt just like Walmart can be hurt.
By the way Age of Conan sucks.
What I find really funny about this thread is the OP is complaining about mages being too weak.... and after 3 years of playing and having a lvl 60+ of every class, I chose a mage as my pvp character. The only class I have trouble with are enhancement shaman.. and thankfully, everyone thinks they are weak so i don't see them very often.
And just 'wow' if you think BGs are just glorified 1v1 fights. Especially in AV.. if you aren't using Blizzard at choke points you aren't very useful to your team. If you aren't using AE while defending galv, you aen't useful to your team. In WSG.. mages make the best defenders. I get all the way up on the top roof, when an enemy goes for the flag, I get two FBs off on him, then jump down and nova him. It's very hard for even druids to get out of the flag room if you do that.
Sorry, if you gear yourself as a glass cannon, you don't get to cry when you get 3 shotted. Few classes can control a BG battle like a mage can. If you want to go toe-to-toe and cast spells at people you rolled the wrong class. Do you seriously expect players to sit there while you cast from melee range? Also, if you can't avoid a single rogue that breaks away from the pack and comes after you - well, you need to play something else - a mage isn't for you. Of all my toons, the mage is my favorite to PvP with.
BTW: If you really think you're gettting targeted first in BG's, try rolling a priest or warlock - there's no comparison.
PvP should NEVER be balanced.
Seriously.
Only way to accomplish that is to create gray messes of all the classes.
I don't know, he seems to be doing a pretty good job if you ask me. I don't think Blizzard is too upset with having 10 million plus subscribers, being ranked #1 MMO by the likes of Gamerankings.com and having held the #1 spot for players on Xfire for 1059 days and counting. Perhaps things are bit better than you believe and you're over reacting just a bit?
Success doesn't mean the PvP is balanced.
Which is more important? Success or the OP's belief that the PvP is balanced? The fact is that millions of people participate in the so-called unbalanced PvP every month. I don't think Tom Chilton gives a rat's behind if the OP thinks it's balanced or not. I don't either.
I don't know, he seems to be doing a pretty good job if you ask me. I don't think Blizzard is too upset with having 10 million plus subscribers, being ranked #1 MMO by the likes of Gamerankings.com and having held the #1 spot for players on Xfire for 1059 days and counting. Perhaps things are bit better than you believe and you're over reacting just a bit?
How does that have anything to do with PvP? How do you know that half of those people playing are only playing because their friends are, and their friends are playing because of PvE? See, there's so many factors, but I highly doubt that anything you just said proves WoW has "balanced" PvP.
It has to do with the job that Tom Chilton is doing which is exceptional. I know this because the Battlegrounds are full everytime I play. I know this because the PvP forums are filled with posts everyday about how unbalanced it is. If it were as unbalanced as they say it is, they would have quit playing a long time ago, but they continue to play. I don't have to prove that WoW is balanced. I don't have to prove that Tom Chilton is doing a good job. The fact that millions upon millions of people subscribe to the game and participate in the PvP every month is evidence enough that the PvP is fine the way it is despite what you or the OP think and that Tom Chilton is doing a great job.
If you haven't realized by now that 1v1 in WoW is at the absolute bottom of Blizzards to do list then where you have you been these last 3 and a half years?
This game is the new wave of babysitter for children. They want to make it the flashiest cartooniest grindfest there ever was a korean f2p game that you got charged for. WoW developers just don't care about balancing classes as they have set their eyes on group long ago once they realized they were failures at balancing 1v1.
Get over it and quit like millions of others.
Fizzle,
I understand you are fustrated any maybe you even regret writing this rant, now that you've taken a breather. However, I will still take the time to address this issue. First off, I am a Mage, so hopefully I have more credibility in your eyes. Secondly, I've played over a dozen MMORPGs, with my first MMO and longest time played in a game being DAoC, which is a PvP centric game. So hopefully that adds a little more credibility to my post too.
Blizzards balancing tactic, group balancing, is not new. DAoC balances PvP for groups, as does EvE, as does just about any serious PvP game. This is because PvP is meant to be a group activity. Hell, this is even evident in WoW, as the majority of PvP happens in BG's or the Arena. BG's especially are all about group cooperation to accomplish a goal. You used a Warrior/Paladin duo example, but you failed to include a Mage/insert class duo comparison.
My point in that Mages are great classes, even in PvP, you just need to realize what their strength is and compensate with other classes in your team for your weaknesses. Your lessons learned in PvE on how to survive and who to bring with you for more survivability shouldn't go out the window when you enter a PvP area.
MMORPG's w/ Max level characters: DAoC, SWG, & WoW
Currently Playing: WAR
Preferred Playstyle: Roleplay/adventurous, in a sandbox game.
I have never encountered a MMORPG up to this point that is balanced 1 vs 1 in PVP.
Unlike the common perception that is perpetuated from time to time PVPing requires teamwork as well and does not belong solely to the realm of PVErs.
The devs from Blizzard have already said that PvP is balanced around 5v5.
Now if you go to the arena rankings and look at the 2000+ rated 5man teams, you will see that the class makeup of teams is very very diverse. Restro Druids and Arms warriors are slightlly overrepresented, but everyone else is in a big pile with only a few %s seperating them. If the best teams are chosing different classes for their team, then that tells me that Blizzard has succeeded. Also if you look at the expansion.. the two classes that are slightly overrepresented are getting slight pvp nerfs. Restro druids are going to lose Feral charge (got moved to a 21 feral talent rather than 11), and the new Arms talents aren't so great for pvp.
This is just another thread by a bad player who's mage got Ambushed by a rogue and he wasn't smart enough to get away.
This.
Of course they don't balance WoW for 1v1, it's utterly ridiculous to think that they would. It's for this reason that there is no 1v1 arena, only 2v2, 3v3, and 5v5. It's why PvE dungeon instances are group / raid only. It's not a singleplayer game.
Whatever class is played, someone, somewhere will think it's overpowered. There's not a single class that escapes the "OP" accusation.
That my friends is the greatest sign that WoW is balanced as well as one could hope for in a game with so much diversity among classes and the talent trees.
As for rogues and stunlock? Please... learn to play, seriously. You really don't know how to play.
Still waiting for your Holy Grail MMORPG? Interesting...
My favorite quote from all time from the WOW forumes. It was a mage complaining about a rogue
" He ambushed me, and I was dead before I could get off a single frostbolt".