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China says no to "Team Darfur" member
Kurush
Member Posts: 1,303
Yep. American athlete. He was a former gold medalist, so he was no smallfry. Team Darfur is basically a coalition of athletes protesting and trying to raise awareness about China's support of the Sudanese regime. Guess what the good old PRC did? They just called him up and told him his visa was canceled. He asked for a reason. Literally, this was the response.
There is no reason. We don't have to give a reason because we can cancel visas at any time.
Righto. The games have not even started, and not only are they beating the shit out foreign journalists, but they're telling athletes who have a political voice to fuck off. These games are really shaping up to embody the Olympic spirit of appeasing brutal nations to make some idiotic committee feel like they're forwarding world peace. Sometimes I feel like the ideals behind the Olympics are as much of a farce as those of the UNHRC or any other high-minded body which favors appeasement over confrontation.
I'm not asking the IOC to go to war with China or do something drastic. I'd just like to hear a formal protest. I'd like to hear them say something. I'd like them to point out that, yeah, China is doing some bad stuff in regards to the Olympics. We'll just see how far it goes before they open their mouth.
Link below with story. I heard about this elsewhere and haven't read this article in particular, so I'm not sure if it has all the details.
www.usatoday.com/sports/olympics/beijing/2008-08-06-cheek-visa-revoked_N.htm
Just google team darfur visa if you want more info.
Comments
Your preaching to the choir, any Athelete from a western country who opposes China's Human rights abuses, should just say no and not go. If they do go they should keep there mouths shut about human rights abuses from here on out. They have given up the right to be taken seriously if they compete.
Great post Kurush
On a lighter note...
Four American track cyclists who arrived at Beijing airport wearing respiratory face masks have apologized to the Organizing Committee for any embarrassment the action may have caused.They were a little bit overly cautious when they went through the airport. Those athletes regret that action and have written an apology to BOCOG on their own behalf," said Scherr. "They now realize and understand how their actions were perceived by the host nation."
Images of the American athletes arriving Tuesday night with black masks covering their mouths and noses were prominent on the Internet Wednesday. Their arrival came hours after Arne Ljungqvist, chairman of the International Olympic Committee medical commission, said the improved air quality would not pose a major risk for athletes or visitors.
The four athletes — Mike Friedman, Sarah Hammer, Bobby Lea and Jennie Reed — issued the apology after speaking with USOC Chief of Sport Performance Steve Roush.
"You never want to go to somebody else's place and cause any embarrassment and in this case, I think we did a little bit," USOC
http://blogs.wsj.com/chinajournal/2008/08/06/athletes-apologize-for-masks/?mod=homeblogmod_chinajournal
What a joke first they wear black masks then apologize for it "Oh Noes we have offeneded someone we is sorry" We love your toxic air Beijing please don't beat us....
It will be interesting to say the least as to how the games progress.
Flame away... i am made of stone...
Yeah, I guess you're right. To be honest, I don't think the athletes should protest at all. There's too much on the line for them. The number of Olympiads whose career peak is longer than a few years is extremely small. Once you miss your window, you may never achieve your goals. People need to remember that, first and foremost, most of the people at the Olympics are kids trying to achieve their dreams, not adults trying to fight a political war.
But that doesn't make this right. China just pulling the dude's visa because he calls them out?
Anyhow, the IOC is just the latest walking contradiction, when it comes to international bodies that are supposed to have high ideals but are paralyzed by political reality. It's a paradox.
No international group can achieve anything if it simply excludes the "bad" players, since that will only further their "rogue" nature.
If they adopt a stance which is seen to be consistently against a nation, that nation will simply withdraw from the proceedings.
If they say nothing, they will never affect change.
That's the trap that groups like the UNHRC fall into. They have to strike an extremely delicate balance, or it all falls apart. The IOC is stuck in the same mud. They just want the games to run smoothly, and they're willing to sacrifice anything for that. I guess I can't blame them too much. Their deal is sports, not politics. I just feel like they should at least say something. A meaningless protest beats a blind eye.
if your going to protest, be prepaired for the conciquences.
The dont open your mouth and then expect everyone to drop their plans, and all their diplomacy and support you.
after 6 or so years, I had to change it a little...
Yeah, I guess you're right. To be honest, I don't think the athletes should protest at all. There's too much on the line for them. The number of Olympiads whose career peak is longer than a few years is extremely small. Once you miss your window, you may never achieve your goals. People need to remember that, first and foremost, most of the people at the Olympics are kids trying to achieve their dreams, not adults trying to fight a political war.
But that doesn't make this right. China just pulling the dude's visa because he calls them out?
Anyhow, the IOC is just the latest walking contradiction, when it comes to international bodies that are supposed to have high ideals but are paralyzed by political reality. It's a paradox.
No international group can achieve anything if it simply excludes the "bad" players, since that will only further their "rogue" nature.
If they adopt a stance which is seen to be consistently against a nation, that nation will simply withdraw from the proceedings.
If they say nothing, they will never affect change.
That's the trap that groups like the UNHRC fall into. They have to strike an extremely delicate balance, or it all falls apart. The IOC is stuck in the same mud. They just want the games to run smoothly, and they're willing to sacrifice anything for that. I guess I can't blame them too much. Their deal is sports, not politics. I just feel like they should at least say something. A meaningless protest beats a blind eye.
Some things are more important that a piece of shiny metal.
And what did everyone expect from the commies? China waited 'til there was no time left to find another venue for the games, and then showed their true colors.
Again, there is no 2008 Olympics. There is just a Chinese mock-up.
Go China.
Visiting a foreign country is a privilage. If you don't know how to behave abroad, stay home.
These people are an embarrasment to their country.
You don't see Chinese people at the Superbowl protesting about Iraq, Taiwan or Guantanamo Bay.
QFT
As mutch as I would like to see China a free Country and people. Going to their country and Bitching Has gata stop.. This is A Reason the rest of the world hates us.
If ye love wealth greater than liberty, the tranquility of servitude; greater than the animating contest for freedom, go home from us in peace. We seek not your counsel, nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you; May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that ye were our countrymen.
Samuel Adams
QFT
As mutch as I would like to see China a free Country and people. Going to their country and Bitching Has gata stop.. This is A Reason the rest of the world hates us.
God, such fucking obsequious grovelers toward a corrupt government. You know, I've been to a lot of countries. Some of them I've lived in for years. I know you should show some respect in other countries.
This isn't about respect. This isn't about going to China and bitching. It's about using the spotlight when you have it to try to prevent bad shit. That's what these athletes tried to do. You probably think that it's pointless. Guess what, though? It's a small world, and even the stuff that happens in remote African nations can eventually come home to us. Nobody said shit when Mussolini overran Ethiopia, either. Well, that was the acknowledgment that the free world didn't care about the sovereignty of nations because they thought the problems would never come home to them. As I recall, Austria, Czechoslovakia, and Poland followed, and we all know what happened from there.
But yeah, maybe we should send a sign that we actually _like_ China supporting mass genocide for the sake of oil. That couldn't possibly come back to bite us in the ass, once China becomes a military superpower, which they will be in the next fifty years.
Also, do you think America's Olympiads don't support Team Darfur? Guess what? It'll be another Team Darfur member carrying the torch for America.
Anyway, history has a place for people like you who think we should keep our mouths shut no matter what because it's not our business. You can take your seats next to the architects of Munich.
WTF?
How about you sort out your own backyard before criticising the actions of others.
People out there are working hard to get something together. The nation of Cina has gone to great lengths to host a successful Olympic games and to you, it's just a big excuse to stick your finger up at them.
It's extremely embarassing to be associated with people such as yourself.
When you come from a nation that is doing as much for Africa as China is, when you come from a nation that isn't involved in it's own oil massacres and sovreignty abuses, then you might be a position to judge.
When it comes to bad shit, you take the good with the bad. No one is perfect. No person and no society. Not any of us.
It is pretty poor to abjectly focus on the bad things only, particularly when the good so obviously far outweighs it.
It's not about Darfur. It's about racism.
These attacks on China are just racial intolerance. You want someone to feel superior of and China is your target.
What do you care about Darfur?
Niothing. You do nothing to help. You don't send guns to the faction you support. You don't send money. You aren't there now protecting and helping them.
I come from a nation that did do something about Poland. I come from a nation, that did do something about the Holocaust.
People here not only fought in their defense at the cost of millions of our own lives, we all took them into our homes.
So please, don't preach to China about Darfur, adopt a refugee. Take some of them into your own house and feed them. It's tiring to listen to you all preaching but doing nothing.
All you really care about is bigging yourself up about how morally superior you are. You abuse the Chinese to make yourself feel better.
Quite frankly if protesting in China is the best help you have to offer the people of Darfur, let alone just insulting their nation on the internet, you aren't any friend to them at all.
It's not about the people of Darfur at all, it's about racist Americans being rude to people to make themselves feel superior.
Freedom of Speech and the global media.
In the U.S. freedom of speech is held as a high ideal and basic human right. In my country, and in China, we do not feel the same way. We feel that people with no understanding shouldn't be heard, and that people being vocally counterproductive should be shut up.
So while in America it is a matter of morallity that people with no particular experience or understanding of the problems of Darfur should all be given a voice; and that any issue should be able to be voiced as loudly and globally as possible, the rest of the world does not.
So when you are in America and you want to make a big showcase of the problems in Darfur, please do. But when you come to here or to China, just shut up. We already know about Darfur, and you aren't exactly our best source of information about it. Why would you think we want to hear your opinion at all?
If you are unable to respect the cultures of others, please do not visit them, otherwise we may be forced to imprison you.
right.... kinda like how they supply Africa with arms so the small tribes in afriica can continue their civil wars they've been fighting for years ...... God bless china and their heavy hearts .... lol ....
@OP: i dont agree with china's ruling, and i dont think america would do the same. If you have something to say .... say it. I think the recent years have shown that america tolerates bad mouthing, considering how many people have said bad things about bush and etc.
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I say good on China, it's their country and they can do whatever the fuck they want. If a bunch of loud-mouth assholes can't respect the nation they are visiting they can get out.
I'm fed up with all these people suddenly jumping on the bs morality bandwagon, like they ever gave a crap before, but now that China is in the spotlight they see their perfect opportunity to prove to the world how evil China is and basically act like twats.
I personally am looking forward to seeing a good show and some sport. I agree with what Baff said, you may not agree with certain countries policies but when you're there you damn well respect their culture. 4 Americans walking off the plane with respirators, one word came to my mind: typical, but hey at least they aplogised.
O_o o_O
Does that mean you're actually doing something...? Or do you just let your country do it? Oh and at the end of the post you make it like you're the greatest freaking expert around... are you? This is not a bash post I'm just simply questioning what you have written.
Good for China. Wish we did the same in America, we would cut the population of idiots in half. Just send them home and a fuck you.
Who cares? China doesn't. And if team Darfur really cares about Darfur they can go live in Darfur and represent Darfur in the olympics. There bad shit going on in the world i know. And the UN and US want to act like they can change the world. Throw money at it and it will fix the problem. Go take over the land that will fix the problem. Theres wars everywhere, on the streets, in the ghettos of every country and poverty is where its located. Take care of your home front then think about the world. We need help here in america Team Darfur Help US there are less fortunate people here to ya know. Angelina Jolie Theres ORPHANS here too ya know.
Ah typical, a bash America comment. So what, those athletes arent allowed to wear respirators to in order to protect themselves from the sh**** air in China or else its "typical"? They shouldn't wear masks because it makes a statement against China? Boo hoo, if the Chinese get pissy because these athletes are trying to protect themselves from coating their lungs with gasified crap, then screw China.
"Damn well respect their culture"...of....crappy air quality? Whats more typical than "Americans wearing respirators" is foreigners throwing in comments bashing anything American; I met my co-workers Aussie girlfriend, and she was a bi**c, typical.
Yeah, but honestly you really don't go to another Country, no matter how messed up it is and just start drama about them. That's a big no no. Just lucky to have the visa canceled. You can be looked at in shame too. You are there to play and to unite at that speical event. It's not ment for drama or throwing in politial views and if they know why the Olympics exist, then they wouldn't open their mouths. Wait till after the games and then u can go on a podium or something instead of doing it there.
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You come from a nation that did something about poland so do I? Neville Chamberlain the Prime minister of England from 1937 to 1940 gave Hitler half of Checkoslovakia when hitler threatened to take it. The result of that was hitler taking the other half and eventually taking Poland. The fact of the matter is, you do come from a nation who helped Poland when they needed help, You come from a nation who helped France when they needed help, your nation helped evacuate as many french and english military forces from france as they could in the battle of dunkirk, many of the boats used were civilian craft with civilian crews which is something extraordinary to say the least. You also come from a nation who lost 380 thousand soldiers and 67 some thousand civilians in the war. Well I come from a nation who lost 416 some thousand men and women fighting the same enemy you were fighting. And i dont appreciate your implying America did not help the world during the war. Americans fought and died in great numbers next to soldiers and civilians from dozens of nations around the world. Next time please choose not to trivialize such a great sacrafice.
So Americans wearing breathing masks to keep from breathing Chinas shit air is bad?
Then start throwing out the Chinese fucking people, also.
All these people are obviously making fun of their country, and should be dealt with, correct?
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/07/19/AR2007071902294_pf.html
NASHVILLE, July 19 -- President Bush said Thursday that he had considered unilaterally sending U.S. troops to Darfur to stop the mass slaughter in that Sudanese region but decided against it in favor of a multinational response that he conceded has been "slow" and "tedious."
Bush did not explain why he rejected U.S. military action and pointed instead to economic sanctions that he has imposed against Sudanese leaders and companies, saying he is "trying to be consequential." Aides said they believe it was the first time the president had so explicitly disclosed that he contemplated U.S. military action in the region.
"I made the decision not to send U.S. troops unilaterally into Darfur," Bush said, responding to an audience question after a speech here. "The threshold question was, 'If there is a problem, why don't you just go take care of it?' And I made the decision, in consultation with allies as well as consultation with members of Congress and activists, that . . . it just wasn't the right decision."
The president acknowledged frustration with the U.N. effort to press the Sudanese to halt what the United States has called genocide. "This is a slow, tedious process to hold a regime accountable," Bush said. "We're trying to say that, you know, 'Change, or there's consequences.' " He added that he was encouraged by the latest report from U.N. Secretary General Ban Ki Moon about progress toward bolstering an African Union force of 7,000 soldiers with three times that many international peacekeepers.
Critics have long accused Bush of not doing enough to halt the violence in Darfur, where as many as 450,000 people have died from disease and violence and 2.5 million have been displaced since 2003 at the hands of Arab militias backed by the Sudanese government of President Omar Hassan al-Bashir. But many inside and outside the government believe that a U.S. military intervention would have provoked a furor in the Muslim world and that American troops could not by themselves establish control.
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The world doesn't favor Military intervention to end the Dafur genocide. At least Bush considered it, but without International support it is moot.
The US military could end this in short order, get back to us when you want it to end.
First the world cries about it then they don't want to take action. Hypocricy at its finest.
except that it happens here all the time and nobody really gives a shit.
This goes way beyond China simply enforcing their laws...If you can't see that, then you really need to wake up and stop trying to be just oh so progressive.
Your argument is like a two legged dog with an eating disorder...weak and unbalanced.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/07/19/AR2007071902294_pf.html
NASHVILLE, July 19 -- President Bush said Thursday that he had considered unilaterally sending U.S. troops to Darfur to stop the mass slaughter in that Sudanese region but decided against it in favor of a multinational response that he conceded has been "slow" and "tedious."
Bush did not explain why he rejected U.S. military action and pointed instead to economic sanctions that he has imposed against Sudanese leaders and companies, saying he is "trying to be consequential." Aides said they believe it was the first time the president had so explicitly disclosed that he contemplated U.S. military action in the region.
"I made the decision not to send U.S. troops unilaterally into Darfur," Bush said, responding to an audience question after a speech here. "The threshold question was, 'If there is a problem, why don't you just go take care of it?' And I made the decision, in consultation with allies as well as consultation with members of Congress and activists, that . . . it just wasn't the right decision."
The president acknowledged frustration with the U.N. effort to press the Sudanese to halt what the United States has called genocide. "This is a slow, tedious process to hold a regime accountable," Bush said. "We're trying to say that, you know, 'Change, or there's consequences.' " He added that he was encouraged by the latest report from U.N. Secretary General Ban Ki Moon about progress toward bolstering an African Union force of 7,000 soldiers with three times that many international peacekeepers.
Critics have long accused Bush of not doing enough to halt the violence in Darfur, where as many as 450,000 people have died from disease and violence and 2.5 million have been displaced since 2003 at the hands of Arab militias backed by the Sudanese government of President Omar Hassan al-Bashir. But many inside and outside the government believe that a U.S. military intervention would have provoked a furor in the Muslim world and that American troops could not by themselves establish control.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The world doesn't favor Military intervention to end the Dafur genocide. At least Bush considered it, but without International support it is moot.
The US military could end this in short order, get back to us when you want it to end.
First the world cries about it then they don't want to take action. Hypocricy at its finest.
AHMAGAWD WE NEEDS MOR DIMPLOIMASY CUZ GUNS R B4D AND DIMPLMIONSY OBVIUSSLY WORKS AMIRITE?
Your argument is like a two legged dog with an eating disorder...weak and unbalanced.
Does that mean you're actually doing something...? Or do you just let your country do it? Oh and at the end of the post you make it like you're the greatest freaking expert around... are you? This is not a bash post I'm just simply questioning what you have written.
Personally I have done nothing about Darfur, nor am I intrested in doing so.
I have no experience of the problems there whatsoever. I should imagine my my own expertise is not very far removed from that of an olympic runner.
I do on the otherhand have personal experience of travelling to other countries and abiding by their laws and respecting their beliefs (even when they are contrary to my own).
except that it happens here all the time and nobody really gives a shit.
This goes way beyond China simply enforcing their laws...If you can't see that, then you really need to wake up and stop trying to be just oh so progressive.
Yes, it goes go way beyond the Chinese enforcing their laws.
Way beyond. It is symptomatic of arrogance on a national scale.
Institutionalised rudeness.
You, en masse, believe you know better how to deal with the worlds problems. Not only do you feel you know better than everyone else, you feel they are in some way evil or monsterous for not living up to your expectations of them.
You don't believe this because of any position of great insight or personal knowledge. Only intrinisic self belief. Arrrogance.
Now, I feel like that too. Everybody does.
But that's no excuse for bad manners.
Where you live your opinion may hold some weight. Your ideas may merit notice, discussion or action.
Abroad, they do not.
If you wish to highlight the plight of Darfur, good for you. Do so at home.
except that it happens here all the time and nobody really gives a shit.
This goes way beyond China simply enforcing their laws...If you can't see that, then you really need to wake up and stop trying to be just oh so progressive.
Yes, it goes go way beyond the Chinese enforcing their laws.
Way beyond. It is symptomatic of arrogance on a national scale.
Institutionalised rudeness.
You, en masse, believe you know better how to deal with the worlds problems. Not only do you feel you know better than everyone else, you feel they are in some way evil or monsterous for not living up to your expectations of them.
You don't believe this because of any position of great insight or personal knowledge. Only intrinisic self belief. Arrrogance.
Now, I feel like that too. Everybody does.
But that's no excuse for bad manners.
Where you live your opinion may hold some weight. Your ideas may merit notice, discussion or action.
Abroad, they do not.
If you wish to highlight the plight of Darfur, good for you. Do so at home.
You, en masse, ask the US to deal with your problems, request aid, and then bitch and moan that we didn't do it exactly as you wanted, or that we stayed around too long.
Once again, beggars can't be choosers...and as far as where my opinions or those of my fellow Americans do or do not hold weight...maybe it's a result of the weight that foreign opinion holds in the United States...we're so caught up with worrying about people like you think of us that we just figure that maybe you guys will return the courtesy...of course, you never do.
Your argument is like a two legged dog with an eating disorder...weak and unbalanced.
What are these problems everyone is asking you to solve?
The Chinese aren't asking you to help solve their problems. They are asking you to stop antagonising them.
For the record people like mine have shown up to help with your problems repeatedly. 8,000 of my people are currently deployed in Afghanistan for exactly that purpose. You didn't ask us, we volunteered. Something your people have never yet done for mine.
Boo hoo. Poor little America. How hard done by you all are.
I personally think the Olympics are gay...
China will never be a revered and great super power until they publicly admit and reconcile the near 80 million citizens deaths during Mao's 5 year plan, which brought on the largest famine ever. There was never a darker place in the world than China at this time. Its almost like every last citizen has locked this skeleton away in a closet, and denial reigns supreme. Quite sad really.