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Are the current economic problems REALLY Bush's fault?

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  • frodusfrodus Member Posts: 2,396
    Originally posted by bluberryhaze

    Originally posted by lomiller


     
    If Reagan “won” the cold war why did Gorbachev get the Nobel peace prize instead? I realize you were not even born back then but if you had been you would realize that end of the cold war came because Gorbachev decided to ignore Reagan’s militarism and act unilaterally. You would also realize the cold war wasn’t actually a war and it had been going on in every presidency on that graph. (What is it with Republicans, everything is a “war”. I think that could be why they handle real wars so badly, they don’t really understand what they are.) 
     
     
    BTW, the cato institute is another right wing propaganda organization designed to convince people to turn over their money and liberty to big biasness. You may want to take anything they say with a  grain of salt, they do not have your best interest at heart. 



     

    you leftist enjoy rewriting history.

    the cold war was 'fought' between the US and USSR.

    who won the cold war? are you saying russia won?



     

    Agreed...

    Trade in material assumptions for spiritual facts and make permanent progress.

  • Cabe2323Cabe2323 Member Posts: 2,939
    Originally posted by lomiller


     
    If Reagan “won” the cold war why did Gorbachev get the Nobel peace prize instead? I realize you were not even born back then but if you had been you would realize that end of the cold war came because Gorbachev decided to ignore Reagan’s militarism and act unilaterally. You would also realize the cold war wasn’t actually a war and it had been going on in every presidency on that graph. (What is it with Republicans, everything is a “war”. I think that could be why they handle real wars so badly, they don’t really understand what they are.) 
     
     
    BTW, the cato institute is another right wing propaganda organization designed to convince people to turn over their money and liberty to big biasness. You may want to take anything they say with a  grain of salt, they do not have your best interest at heart. 

     

    I will forgive your obvious ignorance of American History since you are Canadian. 

     

    First off Republicans are the party against War.  They were Elected to end wars.  Only recently have "Neocons" gone completely against the historical precendence of the Republican Party.

    Democrats are the WAR Party:

    First Barbary War

    Second Barbary War

    War of 1812

    Mexican American War

    Intervention in the Russian Civil War

    WW1

    WW2

    Korea

    Vietnam

    Somalia

    Kosovo

    Technically the Bush family is the only aspect of the Republican Party that historically has gone to War.   With Bush Jr being the predominate one and also being a major NeoCon. 

     

    You do realize that the vast majority of "Big Business" is liberal right?  The vast majority of CEOs are liberals. 

    Once again Republicans are the Party of Small Government, non-interventionism, low taxes for all, etc.  Lately "NeoCons" have adopted a lot of historically Democrat/Liberal Ideas. 

    If you think that Reagan had nothing to do with the end of the Cold War or the end of Communism in Russian then you are simply ignorant.  Reagan convinced the Saudies to up gas production.  This made it impossible for Russia to earn enough money to keep their vast Military Structure working which in turn made it impossible for Russian Communism to dominate.  It is no Accident that Gorbachev was elected

    here is an excerpt about him:

    In 1985, Gorbachev announced that the Soviet economy was stalled and that reorganization was needed. Initially, his reforms were called uskoreniye (acceleration) but later the terms glasnost (liberalisation, opening up) and perestroika (restructuring) became much more popular.

     

    What caused the Soviet economy to stall? 

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  • VemoiVemoi Member Posts: 1,546

    Other great peace prize winners..there are probably more good ones.

    Terrorist Yasser Arafat...I guess in this case it is awarded before any peace actually exist.

    Jimmy Carter...hey, he is a good guy on the left who deserves it. What did he get it for again? Anybody know without looking? 

    Al Gore...for making a movie raising global warming hysteria to a new level. Somehow it is related to peace.

    IAEA...another one prematurly awarded.

    Gorbachev got waxed and won a consolation prize.

    Using peace prize winner for an argument doesn't hold much sway. They are just another politcal group with an agenda.

  • lomillerlomiller Member Posts: 1,810
    Originally posted by bluberryhaze

     
    you leftist enjoy rewriting history.
    the cold war was 'fought' between the US and USSR.
    who won the cold war? are you saying russia won?

     

     

    When did the US troops march surround the red army and capture Moscow, I must have missed that.  Oh, I see, you are saying they did and it’s all just a giant conspiracy to hide it and revises history.

     BTW I’m a moderate right of center who doesn’t care for extremists of any flavor, and doesn’t like propaganda BS from right or left,  The problem is the US right has it’s head so far up the ass of their corporate overloads they can’t see they have been made into

  • VemoiVemoi Member Posts: 1,546
    Originally posted by lomiller

    Originally posted by Cabe2323



     
    You do realize that the vast majority of "Big Business" is liberal right? 


    Are you insane? 



     

    What is so insane about that? Business wants to throw off as much cost onto the government as possible. Healthcare would be a big savings for them.

    http://www.opensecrets.org/orgs/list.php?type=L

  • Cabe2323Cabe2323 Member Posts: 2,939
    Originally posted by lomiller

    Originally posted by Cabe2323



     
    You do realize that the vast majority of "Big Business" is liberal right? 


    Are you insane? 

     

    Jeff Bezos , 44

    amazon.com founder

    NEWSMEAT Power Rank: 321

    Election Picks: 5 wins, 2 losses

    $2,000    Republican
    $11,200    Democrat
    $40,000    special interest
    total:  $53,200    

    CEO of Amazon and top performing CEO of Forbes 2008 list

    Ellison, Larry

    Walnut Creek , CA 94596

    Oracle/Chairman
    CROWLEY, JOSEPH (D)

    House (NY 07)

    CROWLEY FOR CONGRESS
    $2,300

    primary
    02/10/08

    ELLISON, LARRY

    REDWOOD SHORES, CA 94065

    ORACLE CORPORATION


    ORACLE USA INC. POLITICAL ACTION COMMITTEE (ORACLE PAC)
    $5,000

    primary
    02/12/98

    ELLISON, LARRY

    REDWOOD SHORES, CA 94065

    ORACLE CORP


    ORACLE USA INC. POLITICAL ACTION COMMITTEE (ORACLE PAC)
    $5,000

    primary
    10/25/96

    Larry Ellison CEO of Oracle and Highest Paid CEO on the Forbes list

    POSES, FREDERICK M

    NEW YORK, NY 10128

    AMERICAN STANDARD
    SCHUMER, CHARLES E (D)

    Senate - NY

    FRIENDS OF SCHUMER
    $1,000

    primary
    04/22/03

    Frederick Poses 2nd highest paid CEO on Forbes list.

    MCCLENDON, AUBREY K. MR.

    OKLAHOMA CITY , OK 73154

    CHESAPEAKE ENERGY CORPORATION/C.E.O
    MCCAIN, JOHN S. (R)

    President

    JOHN MCCAIN 2008 INC.
    $2,300

    primary
    04/03/08

    McClendon, Aubrey K

    Oklahoma City , OK 73154
    OBAMA, BARACK (D)

    President

    OBAMA FOR AMERICA
    $2,300

    primary
    02/21/08

     

    Aubrey McClendon CEO of Chesapeake Energy 3rd highest paid CEO.

     

    Here are the top contributions to federal campaigns since 1978 by Billionaires:

    newsmeat.com/billionaire_political_donations/index.php

     

    It is pretty much evenly split. 

    If you look at Executives it is pretty split as well.

    newsmeat.com/ceo_political_donations/index.php

    Of course when "Liberals" talk about business they completely ignore the entertainment industry because somehow that doesn't qualify as business? 

    newsmeat.com/celebrity_political_donations/index.php

    Or how about the business of Media?  That one seems to skew to Liberal as well:

    newsmeat.com/media_political_donations/index.php

    The business of Sports skews pretty heavy to Liberal as well:

    newsmeat.com/sports_political_donations/index.php

     

    See that is why "Big Business" is in quotes.  Liberals like to make the claim of Big business being Haliburton and Oil companies and that is all. 

     

    Hmm here is a nice list of the top 50 industries donations:

    Rank Industry Total Dem Pct GOP Pct Top Recipient
    1 Lawyers/Law Firms $83,223,576 78% 22% Barack Obama (D)
    2 Retired $68,913,377 56% 44% Barack Obama (D)
    3 Securities/Invest $44,103,901 68% 32% Barack Obama (D)
    4 Real Estate $42,369,481 60% 40% Hillary Clinton (D-NY)
    5 Health Professionals $33,774,816 61% 39% Barack Obama (D)
    6 Business Services $20,724,662 72% 28% Barack Obama (D)
    7 Insurance $19,766,365 54% 46% Hillary Clinton (D-NY)
    8 Misc Business $19,038,445 67% 33% Barack Obama (D)
    9 Misc Finance $18,444,069 57% 43% Barack Obama (D)
    10 Education $18,121,428 86% 14% Barack Obama (D)
    11 TV/Movies/Music $17,016,929 78% 22% Barack Obama (D)
    12 Commercial Banks $15,646,104 54% 46% Barack Obama (D)
    13 Lobbyists $15,286,496 56% 44% Hillary Clinton (D-NY)
    14 Leadership PACs $14,944,341 42% 58% Susan Collins (R-Maine)
    15 Computers/Internet $14,338,966 68% 32% Barack Obama (D)
    16 Pharm/Health Prod $11,447,917 55% 45% Barack Obama (D)
    17 Electric Utilities $10,554,048 51% 49% Barack Obama (D)
    18 Oil & Gas $10,047,752 29% 71% John McCain (R)
    19 Hospitals/Nurs Homes $9,515,830 67% 33% Barack Obama (D)
    20 Misc Mfg/Distrib $9,303,279 54% 46% Hillary Clinton (D-NY)
    21 Democratic/Liberal $9,235,719 100% 0% Barack Obama (D)
    22 General Contractors $9,010,555 44% 56% John McCain (R)
    23 Bldg Trade Unions $8,780,090 90% 10% Joe Donnelly (D-Ind)
    24 Civil Servants $8,676,423 76% 24% Barack Obama (D)
    25 Retail Sales $8,229,541 57% 43% Hillary Clinton (D-NY)
    26 Transport Unions $8,073,925 83% 17% James L. Oberstar (D-Minn)
    27 Crop Production $7,648,779 53% 47% John McCain (R)
    28 Construction Svcs $7,614,054 62% 38% Barack Obama (D)
    29 Accountants $7,604,573 58% 42% Hillary Clinton (D-NY)
    30 Air Transport $7,476,831 50% 50% John McCain (R)
    31 Public Sector Unions $7,241,192 87% 13% Hillary Clinton (D-NY)
    32 Publishing $7,206,907 79% 21% Barack Obama (D)
    33 Automotive $6,843,638 37% 63% John McCain (R)
    34 Pro-Israel $6,269,670 60% 40% Hillary Clinton (D-NY)
    35 Beer, Wine & Liquor $6,146,731 55% 45% John McCain (R)
    36 Industrial Unions $5,900,384 98% 2% Tom Udall (D-NM)
    37 Defense Aerospace $5,527,009 51% 49% Barack Obama (D)
    38 Repub/Conservative $5,285,157 0% 100% John McCain (R)
    39 Food & Beverage $5,254,346 49% 51% Hillary Clinton (D-NY)
    40 Health Services $5,010,545 66% 34% Hillary Clinton (D-NY)
    41 Casinos/Gambling $4,876,461 69% 31% Harry Reid (D-Nev)
    42 Telephone Utilities $4,859,238 46% 54% John McCain (R)
    43 Women's Issues $4,822,466 98% 2% Hillary Clinton (D-NY)
    44 Candidate Cmtes $4,357,490 70% 30% Hillary Clinton (D-NY)
    45 Agricultural Svcs $4,257,777 46% 54% Hillary Clinton (D-NY)
    46 Food Process/Sales $4,164,349 44% 56% Hillary Clinton (D-NY)
    47 Defense Electronics $4,155,226 58% 42% John P. Murtha (D-Pa)
    48 Non-Profits $4,065,075 82% 18% Barack Obama (D)
    49 Telecom Svcs/Equip $3,970,331 64% 36% Hillary Clinton (D-NY)
    50 Other $3,940,180 77% 23% Barack Obama (D)

    Hmm so the Republicans have Oil&Gas, General Contractors, Beer Wine & Liquorand Automotive as our three main while the rest are pretty much for Democrats.   Wow Even the Defense Aerospace industry gave more to Democrats then republicans. 

    So no the Republicans are not the Party of "Big Business".  Unlike you Lomiller I actually use proof to back up my claims.  You on the other hand like all Liberals use insults when faced with superior truth. 

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  • Cabe2323Cabe2323 Member Posts: 2,939
    Sector Total To Dems To Repubs
    Agribusiness $6,400,308 $2,610,005 $3,780,203
    Communications/Electronics $29,909,363 $21,947,155 $7,927,836
    Construction $14,831,677 $6,483,202 $8,339,175
    Defense $1,810,321 $963,415 $843,956
    Energy & Natural Resources $7,706,027 $3,060,440 $4,643,837
    Finance, Insurance & Real Estate $103,510,640 $55,188,873 $48,285,146
    Health $25,741,876 $15,880,564 $9,841,754
    Lawyers & Lobbyists $68,001,103 $51,407,063 $16,571,390
    Transportation $5,661,706 $2,026,748 $3,631,233
    Misc Business $57,920,903 $34,735,078 $23,115,201
    Labor $690,984 $664,739 $25,595
    Ideological/Single-Issue $17,552,945 $12,990,317 $4,561,727
    Other $95,299,884 $57,726,055 $37,406,215

    So out of 13 Industries the republicans were given more money in only 4 of them.  (Defense not being one of them) With the total in those 4 ares the Repulicans only recieved about 6 million more dollars then the Dems did total in those areas.  The Dems on the other hand recieved about 100 million more dollars in the other 9 industries where they beat the Republicans.  But Republicans are the party of Big Business? 

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  • bluberryhazebluberryhaze Member Posts: 1,702

    wow. facts.numbers.

    so democrats are in the pockets of big business. it is becoming clear.

    the harder they speak about consequences of big business, the more money pours in.

    seems kind of like a bribe. shakedown dollars.

    democrats are ugly.

    -I will subtlety invade your psyche-

  • Cabe2323Cabe2323 Member Posts: 2,939

    I am still waiting for a reply to the facts. 

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  • lomillerlomiller Member Posts: 1,810

     

    Who is campaigning on tax cuts to big business.  I’ll give you a hint, his name starts with an M and ends with a cCain.  Who is complaining Obama will raise taxes on people making over 250K a year, McCain.  Who wants the richest of the rich who own these business to make their personal profits tax free, that’s another longstanding Republican line.

     

    As I said elsewhere big business gives to both sides so the winner “owes” them, you’re your “facts” tell us is that no one things McCain will win.

  • Cabe2323Cabe2323 Member Posts: 2,939
    Originally posted by lomiller


     
    Who is campaigning on tax cuts to big business.  I’ll give you a hint, his name starts with an M and ends with a cCain.  Who is complaining Obama will raise taxes on people making over 250K a year, McCain.  Who wants the richest of the rich who own these business to make their personal profits tax free, that’s another longstanding Republican line.
     
    As I said elsewhere big business gives to both sides so the winner “owes” them, you’re your “facts” tell us is that no one things McCain will win.

     

    What is going to give Big Business more money?  Lower Healthcare costs or Tax Breaks?  I would be willing to wager that even after taxing people over 250K at a higher rate that Corporations themselves will be getting a bigger break from Obama at the cost of the taxpayers then under McCain.

     

    Except the Oil companies.  I will give you that Oil Companies make more money under Republicans since democrats single them out for higher "Windfall" taxes.  But Oil Companies are not the only Big Business in town. 

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