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questions about Shammy specs...

admriker4admriker4 Member Posts: 1,070

I recently returned to WoW and have decided to give the shammy class (alliance) a try.

Ive been told that resto shammys are now considered the premier healers in the game. A few of my ex guildmates have told me that priests are all respeccing to shadow because they arent likely to attend raids as Holy. I cant see how this is true as shammy's remain the least chosen class to play.

Unless Im mistaken, are Shammy's still the least played class (mostly because they werent added until recently) ? When I last played 4ish months ago, a guild was lucky if it had one shammy for a 25-man raid. I think only one guild ever had two (one enhanced and one resto). So it would shock me if guilds were taking 5-6 shammys to replace the 5-6 priests they normally take to cover heals

I have seen several enhancement shammys as indicated by their dual maces and gear. Is this spec equal to rogues and dps warriors as far as damage output ?

Final question...I have yet to see a single elemental shammy around. Is elemental spec not viable for groups and raids ? I think I saw a elemental shammy once months ago, he apparently summoned a fire elemental pet...am i mistaken cause I dont see any spells for elemental pets or talents that allow that.

Personally Im leaning toward resto as I suspect I will have no problem finding myself sought after by raiding guilds once I reach 70 (currently 42). I hate healing though so Im hoping enhanced or elemental are options as well considering the class seems light on players.

opinions are most appreciated

shadow council - alliance

Comments

  • AntipathyAntipathy Member UncommonPosts: 1,362

    ok - considering the different shammie specs:

    Resto: Resto shamans scale very well with gear, and are the best raid healers in the game. For the earlier raid content, this isn't so important, so a resto shaman could easily be replaced by another healer (particularly a priest). However tier 6 raids,  in BT and the new Sunwell instance, incorporate a lot of raid damage, and hence resto shamen are highly desirable, with some guilds bringing as many as 3 to 25 man raids. At low gear levels, in 5 and 10 man instances, resto shaman can struggle for mana efficiency compared to other healers, so be prepared to drink a lot of potions before you gear up.

    Enhancement: These will generally not DPS as well as skilled and well geared rogues or warriors. However they are taken along for the buffs and utility they provide. Most high end 25 man raids will bring one enhancement shaman, but no more. It may be hard to get a spot in an established guild as enhancement, since in many guilds this position will already be occupied.

    Elemental: These provide nice buffs to casters, but have problems with both mana efficiency and aggro management.  At Tier 4, elemental shamen offer very competitive DPS, but at higher gear levels they tend to fall behind other ranged DPS such as warlocks, hunters and mages. Some guilds bring a single elemental shamen to high end raids, others don't make space for them at all.

    ---

    Shamen are still the least popular class alliance side. This is partly because the class was introduced late, and also because many see it as being comparatively weak in pvp, particularly in smaller formats such as 2v2 (although warrior/resto shaman is still seen by mana as a competitive team).

    ---

    As for me - I play a resto shaman in a casual Tier 5 raiding guild. I regularly top healing meters against trash mobs, and am normally in the top 4 healers on any boss fight. My total healing over the course of a raid is consistently higher than any other non-shaman. I am also popular due to the buffs I provide, since I can boost the mana regen and effectiveness of other healers. Sometimes, when no enhancement shaman is available, I will be placed into the melee group in order to provide windfury buffs. I am always one of the first people invited to a raid when I am available, and am also completely at home in most heroics (although there are a couple of bosses that are hard due to the immobile nature of shaman healing).

  • arctarusarctarus Member UncommonPosts: 2,581

    Ive a level 50 shaman (deleted)... From what ive see  most players will go for enh ( dps build)  till they hit the max level and re-spec to restro for group. But a shaman can never output the same or higher dps hit rate than a rouge or fury warrior due to their mana inefficiency....

     

    Trust me when i say that shaman in WoW is a pain to level up......

     

     

     

    RIP Orc Choppa

  • AntipathyAntipathy Member UncommonPosts: 1,362

    Oh - and one of the main reasons you don't see many elemental shamen is that they aren't very popular for end game 5 mans, particularly heroics. Most people will want to take a character with crowd control instead. This causes a lot of elemental shaman to get  frustrated at low gear levels and respec.

    Enhancement shamen have it slightly better, since they find it easier to make friends with tanks.

  • Pappy13Pappy13 Member Posts: 2,138
    Originally posted by admriker4


    A few of my ex guildmates have told me that priests are all respeccing to shadow because they arent likely to attend raids as Holy.

    This is utter nonsense.  I can't speak for the rest of your questions, but Priests are extremely good healers.  They may not be better than Shaman, but they are certainly viable healers and since Shaman are not always available as has already been pointed out, Holy Priests are very much in demand.  Anyone who tells you differently has a specific axe to grind.

    image

  • Cotillion99Cotillion99 Member UncommonPosts: 251

    While i can't speak to end game very much, (quit a while ago, but i'm bored so i'm here) I know i used to be able to dps with the best of them as long as long as there wasn't too much CC going on using the aoe fire totem and chain lightnings, and a 2 hander.  Shammys get a Fire elemental and an earth elemental totem near 70.  I would HIGHLY recommend going enhancement as you level up so that you can kill creeps fast and not have to worry about mana.  Lastly as far as Shammy's being hard to level up, I can't even comprehend that comment because shammys are so easy.  They can heal, they can do at the minimum "good" dps, and they can basically get away from almost any mobs by using tremor totem and ghostwolfing away.  They don't have any form  of cc (at least they didn't) so you have to take down groups fast or run but that shouldn't be much of a problem.  - Completely off topic but anyone else remember fondly the days when Windfury would proc off itself?  Nothing like meleeing down a warrior 3 levels higher than you.  Fun times.

    image

  • XiaokiXiaoki Member RarePosts: 3,358

    You will be able to find a raid guild as Resto at 70 not because Resto Shamans are so good but because raid healing is so boring people often quit.

    I have a tier 5 Resto Shaman and I will quit if my guild progresses to Hyjal and BT. I target random people and Chain Heal. During some bosses I use Healing Wave.

    Elemental is very good raid DPS but you NEED gear. You need a ton of crit and a ton of hit. We had a tier 4 Ele and he would destroy all on the damage charts. However, he quit because Ele raiding is even more boring than Resto raiding. Doing 3 LBs 1 CL then repeat for 10 minutes is not terribly exciting.

    Enh raiding I don't know. They top damage charts easily enough and they buff the other melee to God status but super high threat and low survivability means you die a lot.

  • observerobserver Member RarePosts: 3,685
    Originally posted by admriker4
    Unless Im mistaken, are Shammy's still the least played class
    Yes, especially if you're alliance.



     

    I leveled all the way up to 69 as Resto spec.  It was pure torture, but i did it anyway.  My advice is to respec to Enhancement while leveling.

    Then at around 60, if you want, you can spec to Resto and start doing group dungeons for healing.  Or at 70 respec to Resto.  It's up to you really.

    As for raiding, unless you're in a good guild, it will be very hard to get in a far progressed guild at this stage in the game.  You'll most likely have to start out in Kara first, or do Arenas for the gear.

    Once you start getting the phat loot, Resto shaman healing is amazing!

  • AntipathyAntipathy Member UncommonPosts: 1,362

    Resto levelling is fine.

    I levelled 60-70 as resto, and never had any problems.

    So - you kill a bit slower - but still fast enough. Just keep doing the quests. And since you will be far more welcome in instances than other specs, you will generally outgear other shaman.

    With the water shield changes a few patches ago, you will never have to stop and  drink

    As resto you have immense survivability. You will be able to solo elite mobs that many others cannot even contemplate.

     

  • AntipathyAntipathy Member UncommonPosts: 1,362
    Originally posted by Xiaoki


    I have a tier 5 Resto Shaman and I will quit if my guild progresses to Hyjal and BT. I target random people and Chain Heal. During some bosses I use Healing Wave.


     

    A resto shaman doesn't have to be a two button class. Not if you work to get the most out of it. As with many other classes, the more you put into it, the more you get out. Yes - spamming chain heal is a big part of what resto shaman do. I presume you are also keeping totems up. But are you doing all of the following?



    - Adjusting which totems to use according to the fight? E.g. tremor totems, nature resist totems and grounding totems all have a place in Tier 5 content.



    - Keeping earth shield up on a tank throughout the fight?



    - Activating trinkets at appropriate moments.



    - Using heroism and elementals at the correct moment in a boss fight?



    - Purging buffs from enemy mobs? E.g. from the mobs with the poison buff just before Leotheras?



    - Interrupting enemy caster mobs with earth shocks?



    - Adding to raid DPS when you have time and mana available - e.g. throwing in the odd flame shock and lightning bolt? Resto shamen should be able to contribute more DPS than any other healers.

  • CorodylCorodyl Member Posts: 122
    Originally posted by Antipathy



    and also because many see it as being comparatively weak in pvp, particularly in smaller formats such as 2v2 (although warrior/resto shaman is still seen by mana as a competitive team).

     

    And that doesn't change in wotlk (especially if your enhancement) - very lackluster in comparison to the other classes.

    wotlk is not the salvation that shaman hoped for.

    The buffs that look so good on paper.... lol - avoid shaman like the plague.

  • AntipathyAntipathy Member UncommonPosts: 1,362

    I'd have thought gaining CC would be a huge bonus in PvP?

    And at the moment it's not possible to compare classes - since there's no available info on what's being done with several classes.

  • CorodylCorodyl Member Posts: 122
    Originally posted by Antipathy


    I'd have thought gaining CC would be a huge bonus in PvP?

    So would i but paper and practise often don't meet eye to eye. Really is amazing just how incompetent the devs continue to be with this class.

    I almost wish there was some hidden anti shaman agenda, some grand conspiracy that started with tbc continues through WotLK and leads to some mmorpg watergate revelation......... BUT no what we have is incomptence and their ignorance of the mechanics of this class continues to amaze me.

  • ThradarThradar Member Posts: 949

    1-70:  Dual wield, enhancement.  Levels just a quick as any DPS class...just have a mage friend summon lots of water for you regularly.

    70:  Resto

    I love my shaman other than they have no crowd control or aggro dropping ability.  If I pull healing aggro in an instance I just have to stand there and take it like a man.   Tranquil Air Totem is very tricky to get to work properly because of placement/range issues.

  • faefrostfaefrost Member Posts: 199
    Originally posted by Corodyl

    Originally posted by Antipathy



    and also because many see it as being comparatively weak in pvp, particularly in smaller formats such as 2v2 (although warrior/resto shaman is still seen by mana as a competitive team).

     

    And that doesn't change in wotlk (especially if your enhancement) - very lackluster in comparison to the other classes.

    wotlk is not the salvation that shaman hoped for.

    The buffs that look so good on paper.... lol - avoid shaman like the plague.



     

    The WotLK Shammie buffs look fantastic for resto however. Totems effect the raid? A healing weapon buff? Some brief CC to get out of trouble? Good stuff.

    As to the OP, it depends on your playstyle, but overall Shammie can be fun to play. I went Enh until about 50 then elemental until 70, then switched to resto to get groups.

    I found Elemental surprisingly potent. The damage output was much more then I ever expected. the downside is the dps is very unpredicatble, depending as it does on crits and procs, which makes agro management almost impossible. Elemental is a good solo leveling spec, but has some grouping issues.

    Resto shammies are powerful healers, and are extremely desired in raids. But your friend is wrong priests are not respeccing to shamie. Mostly I find that it is the priests that really want a few shaman along on the raid. 1 or 2 healing Shaman can really take some of the pain off the other main healers such as priests. The splash heal effects are good for helping to manage clusters of raid members. Shaman do not replace Priests in raids, they enhance all of the healers. Mana management is the big downside of them. But a raid group with 3 holy priests a shaman and  a shadow priest puts out an insane amount of healing.

  • admriker4admriker4 Member Posts: 1,070

    I saw that for the expansion Blizz is removing Rockbiter.

    That seems like a pretty powerful nerf. As an ehancement spec its my bread and butter weapon buff. I use that with windfall totem for max dps.

    Now with no rockbiter, I guess I'd use windfury weapon buff and then maybe the agility air totem (since windfury totem doesnt stack with weapon buff)

    Unless theyre replacing rockbiter with something else ?

  • faefrostfaefrost Member Posts: 199
    Originally posted by admriker4


    I saw that for the expansion Blizz is removing Rockbiter.
    That seems like a pretty powerful nerf. As an ehancement spec its my bread and butter weapon buff. I use that with windfall totem for max dps.
    Now with no rockbiter, I guess I'd use windfury weapon buff and then maybe the agility air totem (since windfury totem doesnt stack with weapon buff)
    Unless theyre replacing rockbiter with something else ?



     

    They are replacing Rockbiter with the healing weapon buff. I think they are tweaking the remaining buffs to balance out rockbiters role.

  • AntipathyAntipathy Member UncommonPosts: 1,362
    Originally posted by admriker4


    I saw that for the expansion Blizz is removing Rockbiter.
    That seems like a pretty powerful nerf. As an ehancement spec its my bread and butter weapon buff. I use that with windfall totem for max dps.
    Now with no rockbiter, I guess I'd use windfury weapon buff and then maybe the agility air totem (since windfury totem doesnt stack with weapon buff)
    Unless theyre replacing rockbiter with something else ?

     

    What is "windfall totem"?

    Never done the maths myself, and I don't play enhancement, but I'm aware that commonly received wisdom amongst shaman is that Rockbiter is completely useless after the windfury weapon buff becomes available, and puts out considerably lower damage.

    Hence my initial reaction is that losing rockbiter isn't a big deal.

    Every enhancement shaman I have raided with buffs their weapons with windfury, whilst resto and ele use flametongue. How much DPS do you put out with rockbiter and how far have you progressed through the raiding endgame?

  • CorodylCorodyl Member Posts: 122

    Pretty sure he's joking. Since 'windfall' is most like a misspelling of windwall, which is perhaps one of the most useless totems in the game(beaten only by sentry totem). And Rockbiter is pretty crap for shaman when compared to windfury. So it's loss won't really be noticed by most enhance shaman.

     

    (Ok so there is one use for rockbiter - 1shotting low level mobs when farming resources)

  • admriker4admriker4 Member Posts: 1,070
    Originally posted by Corodyl


    Pretty sure he's joking. Since 'windfall' is most like a misspelling of windwall, which is perhaps one of the most useless totems in the game(beaten only by sentry totem). And Rockbiter is pretty crap for shaman when compared to windfury. So it's loss won't really be noticed by most enhance shaman.
     
    (Ok so there is one use for rockbiter - 1shotting low level mobs when farming resources)



     

    I meant windfury, it was late when I wrote that.

    Totems and weapon buff dont stack so I prefer to use Rockbiter on my weapon and throw down a windfury totem. Any group Ive been in always wants the windfury totem anyway. And since it wont stack with windfury on my weapon, might as well use rockbiter.

    ever  enhancement shammy I know does this. The only exception would be if your in a raid and grouped with hunters and rogues who prefer the agility totem. That would be the only time I would buff my maces with windfury over rockbiter

  • CorodylCorodyl Member Posts: 122
    Originally posted by admriker4


    I meant windfury, it was late when I wrote that.
    Totems and weapon buff dont stack so I prefer to use Rockbiter on my weapon and throw down a windfury totem. Any group Ive been in always wants the windfury totem anyway. And since it wont stack with windfury on my weapon, might as well use rockbiter.

     

    erm what? Ok totems and weapon buffs do not stack, your right at that BUT your Windfury buff is what's used not windfury totem. So whilst your grp gets the totem effect you get the normal effect of your Windfury self buff.

    Using rockbiter doesn't change this - windfury totem doesn't stack with rockbiiter . Rockbiter is perhaps the worsed weapon buff for pve (and pvp). It doesn't scale at all, heck even FT scales better (with the right talent).

    The only thing that you are doing is gimping your damage. Now if you don't believe me, go check elitistjerks shaman section OR post that quote on the official wow forums and see the reaction of people there.

    WF/WF is always better. The only time you would ever use something different is if you had a slow mainhand and a VERY VERY good fast offhand in which case WF/FT is whhat you should use. But ideally you should be using 2 slow weapons - no faster than 2.5secs with WF/WF.

  • admriker4admriker4 Member Posts: 1,070
    Originally posted by Corodyl

    Originally posted by admriker4


    I meant windfury, it was late when I wrote that.
    Totems and weapon buff dont stack so I prefer to use Rockbiter on my weapon and throw down a windfury totem. Any group Ive been in always wants the windfury totem anyway. And since it wont stack with windfury on my weapon, might as well use rockbiter.

     

    erm what? Ok totems and weapon buffs do not stack, your right at that BUT your Windfury buff is what's used not windfury totem. So whilst your grp gets the totem effect you get the normal effect of your Windfury self buff.

    Using rockbiter doesn't change this - windfury totem doesn't stack with rockbiiter . Rockbiter is perhaps the worsed weapon buff for pve (and pvp). It doesn't scale at all, heck even FT scales better (with the right talent).

    The only thing that you are doing is gimping your damage. Now if you don't believe me, go check elitistjerks shaman section OR post that quote on the official wow forums and see the reaction of people there.

    WF/WF is always better. The only time you would ever use something different is if you had a slow mainhand and a VERY VERY good fast offhand in which case WF/FT is whhat you should use. But ideally you should be using 2 slow weapons - no faster than 2.5secs with WF/WF.



     

    sorry but I dont get it.

    Why would I use WF/ WF if they dont stack ? Dont I get the WF effect anyway regardless if its from a totem or weapon buff ? Why wouldnt I use rockbiter or the one that adds fire damage ?

    Im 95% of the time going to put down a WF totem anyway for the group so why wouldnt I put something else on for weapon enchant so I get the benefit of both the totem and the weapon buff ?

  • CorodylCorodyl Member Posts: 122
    Originally posted by admriker4


    sorry but I dont get it.
    Why would I use WF/ WF if they dont stack ? Dont I get the WF effect anyway regardless if its from a totem or weapon buff ? Why wouldnt I use rockbiter or the one that adds fire damage ?
    Im 95% of the time going to put down a WF totem anyway for the group so why wouldnt I put something else on for weapon enchant so I get the benefit of both the totem and the weapon buff ?



     

    OK here is a site that explains EVERYTHING http://elitistjerks.com/f47/t20765-shaman_enhancement/

    (Im not great at explaining this sorta stuff but ill give it a shot.)

    Windfury totem is weaker than windfury weapon buff, which is why you use your weapon buff even if the totem  is down.

    If you have rockbiter on your mainhand - it does not stack with the totem. And the rockbiter weapon buff is a lot weaker than the windfury weapon buff. In fact you should know by now that none of ou weapon buffs stack with any of our wepon buff totems.

    You cast windfury on your main hand and windfury on your off hand. Why? Apart from the above, I would have thought that you would have realised that the weapon buff only effects the weapon it's cast on.

    Now something to remember about windfury - the self buff has a 3 sec cooldown. In other words as soon as windfury occurs, another cannot occur for 3secs. This cooldown is shared by both weapons (if you have windfury on both weapons, which you should).

    Now you might think 'Why should I use WF on the offhand? It's stealing mainhand WF procs.' Even though this is an unavoidable issue the dps (both burst and sustained) is still higher than any other combo of weapon buffs. Also you can minimise the amount of WFs that the off hand steals by using 2 weapons of the same speed (slower the better).

    READ THAT WEBSITE!!!!!!!

    ==================================================================

    Wndfury Weapon is the best weapon imbue to use – former CM Tseric has stated that the devs have no plans to scale the other weapon buffs to match Windfury. [footnote]http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=102731970&pageNo=1&sid=1#0[/footnote]

    Windfury Proc Rate

    When you are wielding a two handed weapon, or are using a shield, your chance to proc windfury on any landed attack outside the 3-second cooldown is 20%. When you dual wield weapons, the chance on each landed attack outside the 3-second cooldown is approximatedly 36%, if and only if both weapons are imbued with Windfury. [footnote]Originally posted by Disquette on the WoW official forums. Original post is no longer archived by Blizzard.[/footnote]



    Analysis of the combat log shows that if you sum all hits, the proc rate while DWing is 20%, but that includes hits you make while inside the 3 second cooldown, which cannot actually proc WF. When you remove the ineligible hits the observed proc rate from the eligible hits becomes 36%.



    Can Windfury Totem avoid the cooldown problem?



    While you may ~think~ it will help you avoid the WF cooldown problem, the totem isn't providing anywhere near the benefit you'll get from the weapon imbue.

    WF Totem has the following issues: no elemental weapons bonus (40% multiple), only one extra attack (200% multiple), lesser AP bonus (scalar). Each MH WF Totem hit would be 100% extra damage or so compared to a normal attack, and has only one chance of proc'ing flurry, any weapon procs, and UR. Each MH WF imbue hit would be 280% extra damage or so compare to a normal attack, and has 2 chances of proc'ing those things.

    In a very simplified way of looking at it, you'd have to proc MH WF 2.8 as many times using the totem as you do using the imbue, for it to be worth it.



     

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