Howdy, Stranger!
It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!
Quick Links
How can anyone that has served in the Armed Forces support Universal Healthcare
Cabe2323
Member Posts: 2,939
We (being veterans) have first hand experience with Universal Healthcare and it doesn't work at all. Military Healthcare is what Government Universal Healthcare would be like here in America. Our healthcare is pretty bad. I can't understand why people would want this type of care for everyone.
I would rather have a marketplace approach to improving healthcare management then having the government manage it.
Honestly have you guys seen the number of lawsuits against the Naval Hospital in Jax? The healthcare in the Military is "Free" but it isn't very good.
Currently playing:
LOTRO & WoW (not much WoW though because Mines of Moria rocks!!!!)
Looking Foward too:
Bioware games (Dragon Age & Star Wars The Old Republic)
Comments
I don't support Universal Health Care. I think it's a *terrible* idea. And yes, I got to experience the uh... exceptional health care provided by those fine people at Naval Hospital Bremerton and also my er... highly qualified ship doctor.
Yep, I can confirm what Cabe is saying here. But, of course, if they imposed Universal Health Care, I'm *sure* it will be wonderful for everyone. Yep. A virtual medical paradise!
OTOH, health care quality thoughout the US has been declining for decades now.
I totally agree.
I've said it on this site many times. If you want to see what government run healthcare would look like, go sit at a VA Hospital for a day. And while you're sitting there, remember that these are the people most American's find as hero's. How do you think they're going to treat the average tax victim?
===============================
Single payer is not socialized medicine.
And it's hyperbole at best and stupidity at worst to claim that military health care "doesn't work at all".
The current civilian system diverts millions of dollars from actually providing health care to coroporate profit and needless bureaucracy. Because the entire idea behind health insurance, from the insurers point of view, is not to provide care. That's how yyou profit.
Military health care is basically socialized medicine, and thus has a lot of problems with it. If you've ever experienced the sick call waiting line in the morning at a brigade consolidated aid station, you'd know all about that. The bottom line though is that it delivers product, even if not as quickly or as efficiently as McDonald's delivers Egg McMuffins.
But the "free market" is hardly a solution, either, because medical care is not something you go shopping for like you do a new TV. Or a breakfast sandwich.
The current US system actively discourages preventative care, and the uninsured fall back on emergency room care for things that if properly treated preventatively would never have wound up in an emergency room.
CH, Jedi, Commando, Smuggler, BH, Scout, Doctor, Chef, BE...yeah, lots of SWG time invested.
Once a denizen of Ahazi
/amen
I broke my wrist when I was a chaplain. The service was horrible to say the very least and I was a Lt. I heard enlistees get treated like crap sometimes.
I always tell people if Healthcare becomes universal then think of it as the Department of Motorized Vehicles. Instead of the bitter people behind the counter treating you like horse poop they will have medical licenses and treating you like horse poop.
Also, we wont go to socialized healthcare. The majority of Americans arent that stupid.
People who have to create conspiracy and hate threads to further a cause lacks in intellectual comprehension of diversity.
The lack of concern for veterans and military personnel shown by the current administration has nothing to do with any inherent problems with universal health care. Many countries around the world have universal health care systems and they have proven to be more effective and much much cheaper then the US system.
The US system is basically designed to pump money into corporations and a handful of very rich doctors then provide health care. It does this by delaying basic care with leads to a much larger need for catastrophic care where the real money can be made because the patient has no bargaining power.
heh
I was a chaplain under the Clinton adminstration. It was just as bad. It was horrible under the Nixon,Ford,Carter, Reagon and Bush Sr administration as well. The problems did not start under GW Bush.
There are articles of horror stories from all of those administrations.
Universal Healthcare is horrid. No doctor will work in a communistic state of affairs. My church has a ministry where we take canadians to the US and pay for their various medical issues. We take families where their situations are dire and we have a seperate budget for this ministry and we have a co op of doctors who do this as a charity (so that our budget is not as burdened).
Ive seen some stuff that will make me never support universal healthcare. No matter what.
Currently, if you are poor you can get medicaid (which in some cases are better than some paid healthcare). If you really care about your health, then you can take a job that gives healthcare benefits to their employees. Hell, even McDonald's has decent healthcare benefits. The excuse of not being able to afford healthcare is just that; an excuse. Ive been in some pretty tight spots when I was a priest; ie. no money. I still had health benefits.
Many states even offer healthcare free to children if you cannot afford it. There are ways Americans can get healthcare benefits. there is no excuse.
People who have to create conspiracy and hate threads to further a cause lacks in intellectual comprehension of diversity.
Canada routinely ranks ahead of the US in quality of care surveys. Canada has lower infant mortality. Canadians have longer lifespan. All this and everyone is covered for 1/2 of what the US currently spends per capita on health care.
If you are saying Canadians would even consider trading their system for a US style system you are a flat out liar. If you are suggestion the US system performs better then the Canadian one you are a flat out liar.
Canada routinely ranks ahead of the US in quality of care surveys. Canada has lower infant mortality. Canadians have longer lifespan. All this and everyone is covered for 1/2 of what the US currently spends per capita on health care.
If you are saying Canadians would even consider trading their system for a US style system you are a flat out liar. If you are suggestion the US system performs better then the Canadian one you are a flat out liar.
Canada has a horrible healthcare system. Otherwise we would not have an entire ministry set up to get the patients visas to get to the states to get help here where we help with the costs. My wife is Canadian. She's actually snickering at your comment. She says that like a Canadian bragging about our awesome Department of Motorized Vehicles customer service is and how canada should have something like it.
And I know HUNDREDS of Canadians citizens and their Doctors who would do anything to have a US based healthcare system. You can call me a flat out liar about that. I could really care less.
People who have to create conspiracy and hate threads to further a cause lacks in intellectual comprehension of diversity.
You'd be amazed how many people in Canada ahore there medical system and come here for service. In Washington my aunts hospital has hundreds of patients with come south to escape the poor quality and all out denial of certain medical services in canada. There have been many cases where a Canadian hospital couldnt cope with a complex c-section due to hospital overload and flew them south to america. Im not saying that Canada has a bad medical system. Im just saying they have proponents for our system the same as we do for theres.
lomiller wrote: 'The lack of concern for veterans and military personnel shown by the current administration has nothing to do with any inherent problems with universal health care.'
lomiller, have you ever served in any branch of the US military? If you had, you would realize that the state of its medical system is endemic and not simply a result of who is currently in the White House. It was crappy under Bush 1 and Clinton. I know. I was there. I had to endure it. Furthermore, those who served under Reagan and Carter said the same thing.
I know it is hard for socialists to accept it, but the US military's medical system has sucked badly for a long, long time, and shows no signs of improving, but rather the reverse.
Canada routinely ranks ahead of the US in quality of care surveys. Canada has lower infant mortality. Canadians have longer lifespan. All this and everyone is covered for 1/2 of what the US currently spends per capita on health care.
If you are saying Canadians would even consider trading their system for a US style system you are a flat out liar. If you are suggestion the US system performs better then the Canadian one you are a flat out liar.
You know what, lomiller, you like to throw around the word "liar" way too much and way too easily. I've decided that you're just some loud-mouthed young punk who is getting upset because your cherished pre-conceived assumptions are being refuted by people of experience. Calling them liars is all you can do. Pathetic.
There is obviously no point in holding any kind of discourse with you, so consider yourself Ignored.
I support Universal healthcare, yes it has its own problems nothing is ever perfect.
Since i have healthcare I couldnt really give a damn bout the whole thing, so long as I have it. However I would tell you to talk with someone who isnt able to get healthcare and see what they think about it.
LOL who is getting peeved at having their preconceived notions dismantled? Enigma suggested something that patently was not true and I called him on it.
Canada ranks higher then the US in WHO rankings
http://www.photius.com/rankings/healthranks.html
Canada has a lower infant mortality rate and longer lifespan
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_infant_mortality_rate_(2005)
Canadians have a longer lifespan (despite generally similar lifestyles)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_life_expectancy
Canada outperforms the US in a majority head to head studies
http://www.openmedicine.ca/article/view/8/1
lomiller,
Tuor is right. Stop throwing the word liar. If you want a debate, Im all for that. I stop talking to you when you pull out immature statements as you have done. Im done debating this with you. You have no self resolve to remain mature with this discussion.
People who have to create conspiracy and hate threads to further a cause lacks in intellectual comprehension of diversity.
Currently playing:
LOTRO & WoW (not much WoW though because Mines of Moria rocks!!!!)
Looking Foward too:
Bioware games (Dragon Age & Star Wars The Old Republic)
Violent crime isn’t going to make a significant difference in life expectancy in either country. Published papers rank well ahead of your “feelings” no mater which country they are published in, and it’s not cost brining down the US in the WHO rankings. (One could make an argument for funding mechanism working against the US, but Canada also has some quirks in the ranking system working against it).
BTW don’t trust anything that comes out of the Fraser institute, they are a special interest “think tank”. Waiting lists do exist in Canada, just as many people can’t get immediate care in the US, by and large they are for *elective* surgery.
ok then stop focusing on canada, focus on the UK, score higher everytime,
If it is only for elective surgery then why did the Supreme Court in Canada state that Access to a waiting list is not access to service and strike down a ban on Private Health insurance?
Currently playing:
LOTRO & WoW (not much WoW though because Mines of Moria rocks!!!!)
Looking Foward too:
Bioware games (Dragon Age & Star Wars The Old Republic)
This is just sad, i cant believe someone isnt constently watching patients in the emergency room, not every 15 mins that BS , atleast a nurse should be waiting right there in that room.
My farther also had to run into some steller care at a emergency room, i mean its not as life threatening as some but he had to have his apendix removed since it was about to rupture and went in around 1 and didnt get into surgery till about 3, funny as the doctor said "it nearly ruptured" im ofcourse thinking to myself that well if ya maybe got him in early the risk wouldnt have been as high.
Anyhow the amount of greed and care in some hospitals is horrible, the fact that we are are in the 30's in the charts are horrible at the same time, i would expect us to be in the 20's , shouldt just take number 1 and work off that.
Hell, my grandfather is a vet and believe me hes 85 and needs to go to the doctor a lot. According to him the system can improve but it isntt that bad. Also to the OP, why assume that just because, according to you and two other people who say military health care is terrible mean Universal health care will be? Will it be worse than 47 million people with health care (in 2005) who, may even have a simple infection that can be easily treated with antibiotics, go thousands of dollars in debt just to pay for their meds? No, it wouldn't.
Exactly.
Here's how simple and logical universal health care is to me:
A profit should not be made from the security and well being of society.
There, that's it, in a nutshell.
Health care should be afforded to every U.S. citizen for the same reasons police officers shouldn't charge per call and firefighters shouldn't bill you when your house catches ablaze. If you profit from these types of services, a large portion of the public doesn't have access to them, due to the bloated costs.
Ideally universal healthcare is noble, but realistically it would suck.
I was in the military and as a single at the time I didnt think it was that bad. However my sister is married to an airman on active duty w/ 3 kids. Lets just say healthcare provided by government isnt as good as what one would pay for.
And where do people think the money will come from to pay for this? Oh right, strain my income a little more so i can pay for Joe Smuck who doesnt work or pay taxes.
Oh yeah, just for fun.....I remember when I had food poisoning from an MRE. The corpman handed me a motrin and told me to drink water. I was in the hospital half day later for 3 days. Thats good gov medicine. lol