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Retried Vanguard - not impressed at all
Flywheel
Member Posts: 60
After just finishing with AoC I decided to give this another go - I have free access until the end of July.
My verdict - they can still shove this game where the sun never shines. Graphics are smooth for the most part but still get some nasty hitching here and there and the game has some ugly object popup, the scenery isnt that impressive either, though the actual view distance is good. Character models vary from ok to laughably c**p - some animation is poor as well.
Gameplay is still slow and playing feels more like a chore than an enjoyable game, tbh I see very little different from before when I logged my necro back on and went out hunting. If this is what being hardcore means then I am glad this kind of game is going the way of the dodo.
AoC may have had major issues but at least the combat felt more fluid than this, this feels even more primitive than the old EQ1.
I tried EQ2 again a short while ago as well, still cant get back into that either but its light years ahead of VG from a playability perspective.
Comments
Glad to see everyone's not a sheep and following the Vanguard fad. This game really isn't that good imo.
All cool, it's not for everyone
Good luck with....your other game.
(we hardly get now this kind of message anyway)
"Freedom is just another name for nothing left to lose" - Janis Joplin
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Might be your choice of class. I tried about 6 different ones before stumbling upon sorcerer, and then my view of the game changed. The class just "fit" me. I really liked the flow of his abilities.
I tried necro as well, and tried to like it, but it was just not for me. So if you are honestly looking for advice on how to enjoy the game, I'd suggest trying out each class until you find one that suits you. Maybe warrior or monk?
However, if you are just giving your last hoorah before leaving, then cya.
Perception is Reality.
Tbh if neither EQ2 or VG appeal to you then I question whether it's the game genre that you don't like. I guess fantasy mmorpgs just aren't for some.
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Hello!
VG isn't hardcore, thats just a myth that people keep talking about. EQ was hardcore at one time but even it has softened a lot over the years.
In any event, hope you find something that's fun. You might try out Wow, Eve of FF they are all pretty popular with reasonable followings.
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Ethion
To Perception:
Quote: "Tbh if neither EQ2 or VG appeal to you then I question whether it's the game genre that you don't like. I guess fantasy mmorpgs just aren't for some."
Nice assumption there and condescending tone to use, I played UO for 3 years from 1997 (been back a few times since), then EQ for 3 years, DAOC for 2 years, almost every fantasy MMO released since UO first came out. And yes, not just fantasy - I also have 2 years paid subs in AO, 14 months in EVE - even played some of the more obscure games like utopia (I wrote a military calc for it) and A Tale in the Desert. I simply dont find these two titles to be that impressive, though I enjoyed EQ2 a lot more than I did VG.
I have more raid hours (want hardcore, try raiding EQ dragons or the AoW), more high level toons and more /played time in the genre than most of the posters on this forum (though I have no doubt a few others have as little life as me lol) - dont ASSUME you know anything about my game preferences. Are you one of those posters who started with WoW and think they are an MMO veteran ?
Heres a little of my history for you:
Played AO, AC, AC2, Daoc, HZ, VG, EQ, EQ2, UO, COH, COV, ATITD, SL, EVE, KO, RO, L2, FFXI, POTBS, WoW, LOTRO, AoC (Just finished there, its c**p), PS... In fact just look at the released games list on this site, easier than me typing the rest of them.
A few sample characters:
Europa server UO - the nuks - Xornuk, Reenuk (she had a stratics story written about her - Reenuk and the Wisp), Loranuk, Vornuk (one of THE first GM tailors on the server, member of XoX guild).
EQ - Seventh Hammer server - Sabtini, Dryrot (first incarnation of this name), Nabbwin Furrytoes (biggest layabout and non-leveller ever lol only ever got into his low 50s years later).
EVE - Jenrak, ran his own corp a while with mates, has over half a bil of BPOs laying in his hangar.
AO - Thickone, Lanky, Costalot (always handy having own trader for wrangles, Mmm... wrangles).
AoC - Thales 68 ToS, Dryrot 28 Necro, Mooman 27 Bearshaman, Krolim 21 Dark Templar - I can remember the levels here, its recent
LOTRO - Garadin 50 captain, Nabbwin 33 Guardian, Zagnor 30 Hunter, Istildur 24 Loremaster (Undying title, hit 20 without death, wasnt even trying for title, just got lucky hehe). Again played this recently.
Please dont assume you know anyone elses taste in games when you post...
That wasn't me. That was the next poster down.
Perception is Reality.
That wasn't me. That was the next poster down.
Hez Right tho.. You should try other classes.
You might like the Idea of the Necro but the Shaman might be the one.. you never know.
And while its free its a good time to try and see.
If ye love wealth greater than liberty, the tranquility of servitude; greater than the animating contest for freedom, go home from us in peace. We seek not your counsel, nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you; May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that ye were our countrymen.
Samuel Adams
Sounds like Online games arnt for you.
Sounds like Online games arnt for you.
lol
To OP:
I agree. I was not impressed and I'm a little disappointed in the posters hyping the game. Not a lot has changed and the game just "looks" rough. It might be because I've played so many quality games in the year I've been away, but Vanguard just really feels unpolished.
I wrote up my experience in another thread. I just want to address the assertion that Vanguard is somehow hardcore. No sir. I followed Vanguard for years, and Vanguard ceased to be hardcore somewhere around Beta 3. That's when Sigil went into panic mode, Microsoft bailed on the project, and they started dumbing the hell out of the game and WoW-ifying it in every way from the combat to the UI. I laugh at people who claim this game is the anti-WoW. The game has become more and more easy-mode since release.
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Life sucks, buy a helmet.
That actually is the appeal of VG. If you don't like EQ, then you certainly won't appreciate VG, and that has nothing to do with being hardcore or not. Matter fact, the combat in VG is still a tad too fast, resulting in less interaction between players. The "fluid combat" is one reason I will stay away from AoC.
Sounds like Online games arnt for you.
lol
To OP:
I agree. I was not impressed and I'm a little disappointed in the posters hyping the game. Not a lot has changed and the game just "looks" rough. It might be because I've played so many quality games in the year I've been away, but Vanguard just really feels unpolished.
I wrote up my experience in another thread. I just want to address the assertion that Vanguard is somehow hardcore. No sir. I followed Vanguard for years, and Vanguard ceased to be hardcore somewhere around Beta 3. That's when Sigil went into panic mode, Microsoft bailed on the project, and they started dumbing the hell out of the game and WoW-ifying it in every way from the combat to the UI. I laugh at people who claim this game is the anti-WoW. The game has become more and more easy-mode since release.
And sadly it's the hardest game to level out there lol
To Perception:
Please accept my deepest apologies, it was in fact the poster below you, I can only attribute my mistake to it being way too late when I posted and my poor judgement in what I was reading. I was posting in a hurry before winding up my PC session for the night and going to bed before work today. Again for that I apologise.
I do give all MMO games a fair whack - its rare even the crappest game I will abandon before playing at least the free month and for some subscribed time. I also tend to give a range of classes a try. To me Vanguard does nothing new other than diplomacy and the crafting - I tried both of these when the game launched, the rest of it to me is a pale copy of older games like EQ.
The graphics may be improved over EQ but the 'character' of the game is lacking the lore of EQ and the fact there were so few games of its type in the marketplace made it stand out as one of the milestones in MMO history.
I also despise this idea of hardcore that is banded about and many relate hardcore to raiding, forced grouping, slow exp gain and harsh death penalties. All of these will drive many gamers away and at the end of the day an MMO is nothing without an army of subscribers. These are games and need to be fun, I dont think all content should be spoonfed but I do think the devs need to rethink their gaming model to add a better challenge.
To me the ultimate MMO would be something that would contain a few of the following ideas along with a well designed engine that could run on cutting edge and moderate PCs as well (if any dev reads this and likes any idea please feel free to take it):
A comfortable mix of solo and group content. No future MMO is likely to be successful without a mix. I do like the idea that in a group the exp should be split by members but maybe a 10% modifier per person joining should be added to encourage grouping without making it necessary.
A PVE/PVP combined game - guilds could be flagged PVP by the founders, PVP guilds allow for FFA with other PVP guilds but even the PVE guilds can partake in some form of land-based conquest or siege warfare after a number of levels have been obtained. Sometimes I would like to play a PVE character on the server and other times PVP, sometimes my mood changes and I am all-out one or the other - why split by server, why not have the choice there to switch when bored of one system. Stick a 48 hour timer on switches to people dont take the p**s out of the system. Theres nothing worse than hitting max level in PVE and having nothing to do - why not allow a switch to full PVP ? Why even use guilds for PVP flagging - characters could worship a deity, by changing to one of war or conflict you could then become a PVP character.
Plenty of quests, but levelling by grinding through mobs should also be viable, combat should feel dynamic - swords should clash, spells should thunder down and it should feel satifying to vanquish the opponents. Mobs should use the skills at their disposal and group content mobs should work in teams making conquest all the more fun. AoC had some good ideas for combat but implemented in a less than stellar fashion.
Raids should be held in dynamic instanced playfields - areas can change, mobs have decent AI, maybe a bit of strategy is required and tactics should be needed to kill the bosses rather than just having x*1000 health. Zerging does not make for many memorable raids - something that requires teamwork does.
Epic gear should be obtainable by both long epic group quests and solo questing - the solo side should be very complex and lengthy, stats should probably be 5-10% in favour of the group epic, but the solo gear should also be desirable.
A mix of level and skill based character development. Only UO and EVE have truly managed skill based character builds, an easier to handle compromise would be along the lines of a levelling system but allow more flexibility in the skills purchased when levelling - maybe feat trees mixed with a skillpoint system like AO would work - who knows ? Why should every shadowknight or Guardian get the EXACT same mix of skills ?
Crafting for a reason - good crafted gear should equal the good random loot drops, hard to crafted gear (maybe requiring steps from several schools) should be a step below epic items - maybe on a par with some raided gear. Having item decay which could drop an item as low as 50% effective over time would also keep the crafter in employment - like the GM smiths in UO allow the crafters to repair items to maximum, maybe for ease of use and when a crafter is unavailable allow an NPC repair character who could fix to 80-90% effectiveness. Maybe allow repairs in the field using readily available tools to 75%, so long raids are viable and another money sink is created. It should also not be possible for one character to max more than one or two crafting schools - having craft 'mules' detracts from having a good marketplace and character interaction.
Easily accessible mounts - you can leave the city you can buy your first horse - this is one feature I liked about Vanguard, mounts should be obtanable early but the later ones get more effective. Getting around should NEVER be difficult if it spoils the fun factor of a game, people cite long travelling times as being good for adventuring and I do accept part of that, however when you want to join friends a long way off to group then nothing should detract from that fun being acheived. Maybe solo travel takes time but items can be bought from an NPC that could pull friends to your location with a cooldown involved ? Maybe teleport points you need to find on foot first to use. Maybe those flagged PVP should have certain zones that NPCs will not ferry them across due to the risk to their own lives meaning PVP combat could not be avoided too easily for those flagged in those areas.
There should be a death penalty involving deterioration of your gear - as before it can drop as low as 50% if unchecked. This would create a money sink and a death would mean a run back to your hunting spot and some wear and tear you need to keep track of. Also creates another money sink. Exp loss is a BAD idea, especially if you can lose a level, most players these days do not want to lose what they have gained, especially the influx of casual players.
Thats just part of my wishlist but unfortunately its more likely we will see eq_clone_939393.exe next...
Im sure most others have these ideas knocking around, what worries me is how little vision most of the developers have, they just want to create a safe MMO based on the existing model - by doing so they produce nothing outstanding and then need to take on the likes of WoW ( I hate it but I admit its polished for what it is ).
Oops, sorry for derailing the thread a bit there.
Wow... let me know when that game you describe comes out. I am afraid it might be a while.
In the mean time I will play what I think is the best MMO on the market right now.
The way MMO developers are throwing games together at the moment, I cant see anything like that coming in a hell of a long time hehe
Would make me happy enough at the moment to see a game that doesnt follow the current trend.
No worries. Sounds like you are hoping a game will come out that takes the best parts of the current MMO's and expands on them in a meaningful way. Well, until that game comes along, I gotta play something, and VG floats my boat currently. Sure, it has its issues (some really really annoying currently), but for me, its good enough. If none of the current crop of MMO's give you that warm fuzzy feeling, then you really only have 2 choices...
1. Wait.
2. Choose the "best of the worst".
I think we've all gone through an MMORPG dry spell before, when the last game we played left us with a bad taste in our mouth, and the other choices around just didn't seem to hit the spot. Its a conundrum. Good luck to ya.
Perception is Reality.
It wont appeal to the mass market because the game just isn't good and its ugly as hell with it's poor art direction. Any game can be popular like Ninja Gaiden is a very very hard game and yet it still sells well. It's not that Vanguard is too hard or it's sooo much more elite than popular mmorpgs, because that's more of a play style but it's just because the game isn't good.
WOW can be sooo much harder than most mmorpgs with it's PVP because you're fighting other players and that's sooo much harder than fighting PVE in PVE only mmorpgs. Also if you want to get to top ranks and get all the best gear in the game then that requires constant play because the game is constantly changing and adding better items.
For me Vanguard is just a poor empty mmorpg with hardly anyone playing, the art style makes me wanna throw up and the character model and animations are some of the worst I've ever seen, specially for a new mmorpg. The standard of the game is subpar and SOE have proved that they just arn't going to put the resources into the game.
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Talking about SWG much?
"Freedom is just another name for nothing left to lose" - Janis Joplin
.jpg)
It wont appeal to the mass market because the game just isn't good and its ugly as hell with it's poor art direction. Any game can be popular like Ninja Gaiden is a very very hard game and yet it still sells well. It's not that Vanguard is too hard or it's sooo much more elite than popular mmorpgs, because that's more of a play style but it's just because the game isn't good.
WOW can be sooo much harder than most mmorpgs with it's PVP because you're fighting other players and that's sooo much harder than fighting PVE in PVE only mmorpgs. Also if you want to get to top ranks and get all the best gear in the game then that requires constant play because the game is constantly changing and adding better items.
For me Vanguard is just a poor empty mmorpg with hardly anyone playing, the art style makes me wanna throw up and the character model and animations are some of the worst I've ever seen, specially for a new mmorpg. The standard of the game is subpar and SOE have proved that they just arn't going to put the resources into the game.
in your opinion...
Exactly, its all opinion. I for one love the way graphics look in vanguard, and i hate the way graphics look in AoC.
Is one better than the other? Thats not for me to say, but i perfer Vanguards.
Take for example LOTRO, I played the game, and didnt like it.
I loved the roleplaying and the housing, but there was something about the game i just couldnt get into.
Do I hate LOTRO? Not at all.
I actually respect the game, 100% because in my opinion its a huge difference from WoW or any other MMO. I just cant get into it, which is sad because I really wanted to play the game, and get hooked.
Hopefully one day ill get a friend key or something and ill enjoy it agian, but until then.
-Jive
It wont appeal to the mass market because the game just isn't good and its ugly as hell with it's poor art direction. Any game can be popular like Ninja Gaiden is a very very hard game and yet it still sells well. It's not that Vanguard is too hard or it's sooo much more elite than popular mmorpgs, because that's more of a play style but it's just because the game isn't good.
WOW can be sooo much harder than most mmorpgs with it's PVP because you're fighting other players and that's sooo much harder than fighting PVE in PVE only mmorpgs. Also if you want to get to top ranks and get all the best gear in the game then that requires constant play because the game is constantly changing and adding better items.
For me Vanguard is just a poor empty mmorpg with hardly anyone playing, the art style makes me wanna throw up and the character model and animations are some of the worst I've ever seen, specially for a new mmorpg. The standard of the game is subpar and SOE have proved that they just arn't going to put the resources into the game.
I absolutely disagree with almost every point in the post above. Which is, of course, only an opinion and neither of us in the right
.
I love the art style in Vanguard. I didn't think I would, but as it turns out, I like it far better than EQ2/AoC.
No MMORPG is difficult in general, as they merely require time and planning to accomplish certain objectives. Certain games have harsher death penalties, giving a greater level of "punishment" for failing/dying (EQ1 was notorious on this), while others make it relatively meaningless to die.
PvP is indeed one of the greatest aspects of the game that is missing from general Vanguard. I have no interest in playing on a PvP server right now, but I would love a competitve arena to play in against other players, a la Battlegrounds or the Arena in WoW. Players represent the ultimate in unexpected reactionary combat; monsters use consistent AI, players don't. Which is why I'm so excited about WAR, which seems to plan to combine the best of PvE and PvP in one game (I hope).
For now, Vanguard is a welcome change from the WoW/AoC games I have been playing, and hope to ride it out until later in the year for WAR.
I'm playing Vanguard right now and am not entirely impressed either. My issues are mainly due to lack of population on the PvP servers. The voice-overs are also f*cking terrible. I wish they didn't add them, makes the game seem chinsy.
I've played every released MMO on this site minus Archlord, Asheron's Call, Fury, HZ,Maplestory, and WWII online. I'm actually considering trying AC, seems like I missed the boat on that one
.
As far as pure PvE goes, Anarchy Online and Everquest 1 are the "best of the worst" right now. Yes, I said it- Everquest ONE is better than Vanguard. Way more people Play EQ1, the content is better, and the world looks better IMO.
As far as overall PvP and PvE viability, unfortunately (and I stress "unfortunately") World Of Warcraft is really the best game on the market right now. We've all played it, we all know its true. Most of us (mmorpg.com community) have just already burnt out on WoW towards the end of 2004.
Also, many of us have spent lots of money to get new gaming rigs and are reluctant to play older titles because we'd feel like idiots for spending so much money to play newer games that suck.
So, I'm playing Vanguard because i've played the shit out of WoW, and EvE is not fun for me, and I spent a lot of money on a new PC lol. That hardly constitutes VG as an "excellent" game, but it's definitely a viable option.
yes, this was my post,
and yes, i probably shouldn't have used the tone i used,
but it's true. They AREN'T for some, a lot of people play games like EVE and can't stand games like Vanguard. The reasons for you not liking VG seem minimal, saying 'the scenery isn't that impressive', but I'd like to know what game you've been playing because although I haven't extensively played many MMORPGs, I have played them enough to know that I don't see any with graphics and in fact scenery that rival Vanguard. Perhaps you didn't do 'setfog 20000, 400000, 120, 120, 240' or the more common 'setfog 999999' ?
Gameplay-wise I think fighting is fine,
it's very much like most other mmorpgs, (lotro, wow, numerous free that I have played) , so I can see why you wouldn't like the EQ2 combat, but not VG as it is much more enjoyable in my opinion.
I'm not really sure why you named every single MMORPG that you played, I don't know whether you were trying to impress or what, but everyone has tried various different mmos at some time or another, I'm no different, so listing yours just shows me that you are simply here to prove something.
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Hello!
I'm not sure what 'chinsy' means,
but why don't you just turn the voicing off?
problem solved, your wish that they didn't add them has been granted.
I really don't like people that complain about itty bitty things, that in this case are optional
----------------
Hello!
It wont appeal to the mass market because the game just isn't good and its ugly as hell with it's poor art direction. Any game can be popular like Ninja Gaiden is a very very hard game and yet it still sells well. It's not that Vanguard is too hard or it's sooo much more elite than popular mmorpgs, because that's more of a play style but it's just because the game isn't good.
WOW can be sooo much harder than most mmorpgs with it's PVP because you're fighting other players and that's sooo much harder than fighting PVE in PVE only mmorpgs. Also if you want to get to top ranks and get all the best gear in the game then that requires constant play because the game is constantly changing and adding better items.
For me Vanguard is just a poor empty mmorpg with hardly anyone playing, the art style makes me wanna throw up and the character model and animations are some of the worst I've ever seen, specially for a new mmorpg. The standard of the game is subpar and SOE have proved that they just arn't going to put the resources into the game.
JustBe.. you have never actually played the game: