Like a couple of other people have said Smith; I don't relly know how to respond. Your fever about arguing points that seem very alien to me is a bit disarming. DDO has things I like and things I don't and I only play it one out of every 3-4months (due mostly to lack of content) but the things you seem to have a problem with almost seem delusional to me. I haven't experinced the mobs playing by different rules (unless they where meant to), and the aspects of player skill is not unlike 99% of most other mmos, and while I agree that DDO dosen't have as strong of a following as it should due to design choices made, it's hardly a failure in the since that the game isn't making money or enjoyed by 10s of thosands of players. And, I play on 2 different servers and it is seldom on either server that I ever have trouble finding a team and both of the servers are pretty busy.
I cartainly not a fanboi and if you came out here with a greif that I understood i'd back you up, but I just don't see it. You certainly have your right to your opinion, but like everyone else I have to agree your off the mark. I would have to say your negative experience seems to be due to something out of DDO's control. Out of all the responses we aren't all apologists just because we don't agree with you. I certainly have no qualms about listing a list of problems I have about DDO (and have before), but there is nothing in the game that makes it almost unplayable or about to fall apart as you seem to be trying to indicate.
I never said the 'different rules' where not by design - I even suggested they are intentional. Clearly the game was beat bad when it went live and Turbine has spent the time since rigging the MOBs in a number of ways to make it seem more challenging. My contention is that by 'cheating' on what MOBs can do they are not making the game tougher they are only making encounters more gear/attribute driven and taking player skill/action out of the equation. As for populations and considering it as an indication of the game as a failure or success - I think DDO is easily a poster boy for failed MMOs, perhaps just behind Vanguard. Does Turbine make money off it - out of my realm of comment - but is it a good game received well by the general MMO public or even the IP fans - hardly.
After 4 pages of back and forth on this opinion (sorry, don't have the time to read every page), my intuition about the game seems still to hold. I know there are folks who like it, that's good, I'm glad there is enough subscribers who enjoy DDO to keep its investment running. But from everything I've read about the game both here and from other informative sites, I know I'd find too much fault with it for my satisfaction. I'd much prefer playing NWN or NWN2 to get my AD&D fix online.
Its kind of a shame really, I had held out higher hopes for the game during its development, though its good to see that Turbine is still taking care of their current subscribers with added content. But...I can't stand Eberron, that along with other select, inherit features of the game, keep me away from it.
Even peace may be purchased at too high a price, and the only time you are completely safe is when you lie in the grave.
After 4 pages of back and forth on this opinion (sorry, don't have the time to read every page), my intuition about the game seems still to hold. I know there are folks who like it, that's good, I'm glad there is enough subscribers who enjoy DDO to keep its investment running. But from everything I've read about the game both here and from other informative sites, I know I'd find too much fault with it for my satisfaction. I'd much prefer playing NWN or NWN2 to get my AD&D fix online. Its kind of a shame really, I had held out higher hopes for the game during its development, though its good to see that Turbine is still taking care of their current subscribers with added content. But...I can't stand Eberron, that along with other select, inherit features of the game, keep me away from it.
Sounds like you don't really have an opinion of your own, but are happy picking from other peoples.
That's not fair Rock. Not everyone plays every game to hit the market. People make choices and beliefs on secodary information on 99% of all subjects (hell that's what education is all about). Just because he doesn't come to a decision you do or like dosn't make it unvalid. Some people will enjoy DDO a lot won't I don't see any reason to think he can't make an informed opinion for himself based on filtering the information out there.
As for Smith, I still think your reaching .All MMO mobs do that to some extent. MObs and Players never play by the same rules. It's even part of game design philosophy.
That's not fair Rock. Not everyone plays every game to hit the market. People make choices and beliefs on secodary information on 99% of all subjects (hell that's what education is all about). Just because he doesn't come to a decision you do or like dosn't make it unvalid. Some people will enjoy DDO a lot won't I don't see any reason to think he can't make an informed opinion for himself based on filtering the information out there. As for Smith, I still think your reaching .All MMO mobs do that to some extent. MObs and Players never play by the same rules. It's even part of game design philosophy.
I wasn't trying to be fair or unfair, was purely an observation, but I will elaborate.
The best opinion is one you form with direct experience, but it isn't practical for everyone to try every MMO that comes out. So we have to filter them in some way, normally based on some design feature they have or don't have. We may also take other peoples opinions in to account, although personally I think you have to approach any strong opinions (either way) with a healthy dose of realism.
Now most people do that, but there is a distinct difference when you go to the effort of posting to say you won't play something based on others opinions. It clearly shows the MMO is not off your radar, if it was you wouldn't bother with the effort of doing so. Then posting in a rather mad negative thread, and stating you haven't read it properly, but it confirms your intuitions, all seems a little mixed up for me.
Now funny enough I am in the same boat with AoC, I know there are elements in the design that will annoy me, poor group AI, homing projectiles, PvP focus, basic quests, and a questionable community. But I have a level of interest, intuitions yes, but nothing to base a real opinion on, I could go through the boards find enough evidence to prop up my intuitions and leave it there, or I could just try it when a trial comes out and have a real opinion.
In contrast WAR, I have no interest in and no opinion on. I don't need to state I won't be playing it, or find posts to back up a reason not to. I can just decide not to put it on my radar. If I did need to go on to the WAR boards to state I will not be playing it and justify why not, then I would have to question myself on why exactly I was going to that much effort.
Well Rock I am in the same place on both AOC and WAR. I came to the conclusion that AOC isn't what I want based upon what I have read about it, and I also have no real opinion about WAR other then it doesn't interest me. However, I have posted a couple of times in threads about the level of interest in the game that I have no interest in it.
It's a unique group based PvE game. If you like group PvE, try it out, it's free! This game has zero grind/ x of x quest. It's quest are the most interactive. I guarantee the most mature player base, voice chat in groups works great. You can join a guild or jump into a pug's and have good success most of the time. This game is much different then a typical grind mmo, which most are.
Be prepared for a learning curve on build your character and getting total control of the interface. But stick with it both work well in the long-run. Also throw auto-attack away, this is the most real-time fantasy mmo, take advantage of it.
As for Smith, I still think your reaching .All MMO mobs do that to some extent. MObs and Players never play by the same rules. It's even part of game design philosophy.
Perhaps, but the problem in DDO is the extent to which it does this and the extent to which the game's challenges rely on doing it which is far, far to often.
That was a big wall of text with very little substance...much whine though. To be honest, I dont even know how to respond to a thread like this, are we supposed to? Reading a 40 year old person bragging about a computer game being incredibly easy, gave me a chuckle though. The five minutes were not intirely wasted
That was a big wall of text with very little substance...much whine though. To be honest, I dont even know how to respond to a thread like this, are we supposed to? Reading a 40 year old person bragging about a computer game being incredibly easy, gave me a chuckle though. The five minutes were not intirely wasted
This post is classic natural selection.
Yes it was. But if you bothered to read more than one post before you decided to respond, you would see that I apologized for it...no need to dig it up gain.
That was a big wall of text with very little substance...much whine though. To be honest, I dont even know how to respond to a thread like this, are we supposed to? Reading a 40 year old person bragging about a computer game being incredibly easy, gave me a chuckle though. The five minutes were not intirely wasted
This post is classic natural selection.
Yes it was. But if you bothered to read more than one post before you decided to respond, you would see that I apologized for it...no need to dig it up gain.
I think the "turbine" that created this game, and the "turbine" that created lotro are two totally different companies! Not really, but I think the company had learned a lot from it's mistakes when it failed on D&D to please both the online faithful and the original P&P players that saw this game as a possible life-changer.
I think they are trying to do somewhat of a "re-try" on this title before it's graphics engine are out of date. I think they are really making strides in the right direction, but it will only be a distraction mmo for people who have quit their main... like a rest haven for wowers.
I guess there has to be somewhere for them to go, if they don't get hooked, and this game is the luke-warm game that it should be.
Two totally different games, LOTRO is another small step in the generally accepted evolution of MMOs that have features designed for mass market appeal, WoW being the largest.
DDO was an attempt to break away from the tried and tested formula, active combat with real quests, which is exactly what it is. An experiment with obvious niche appeal.
There is no evolutionary link between the two MMOs. One is a cash cow, the other is an attempt to try something new. Personally I believe that gives DDO much more gravitas.
Two totally different games, LOTRO is another small step in the generally accepted evolution of MMOs that have features designed for mass market appeal, WoW being the largest. DDO was an attempt to break away from the tried and tested formula, active combat with real quests, which is exactly what it is. An experiment with obvious niche appeal. There is no evolutionary link between the two MMOs. One is a cash cow, the other is an attempt to try something new. Personally I believe that gives DDO much more gravitas.
Which is also why it is such a love/hate game. Me I love it, you don;t enjoy yourself on more of the same ole same ole there's plenty out there for you....
Two totally different games, LOTRO is another small step in the generally accepted evolution of MMOs that have features designed for mass market appeal, WoW being the largest. DDO was an attempt to break away from the tried and tested formula, active combat with real quests, which is exactly what it is. An experiment with obvious niche appeal. There is no evolutionary link between the two MMOs. One is a cash cow, the other is an attempt to try something new. Personally I believe that gives DDO much more gravitas.
You cannot judge a game based on its ideal, the idea behind it, alone. Heck, Vanguard had some great ideas the simply failed to deliver them in a cohesive and complete form. DDO is a great idea, and nicely unique. But key errors at launch have borked the game beyond reasonableness in many ways. The total lack of content early on, the misguided idea that doing the same content over and over would really be appealling to anyone - and yes all MMOs have repeated actions like kill 10 of X - but they don't always have the same MOBs in the same situations around the same corner every single time. Furthermore, the loot spillway early on was a huge mistake - in a game challenged to stand up to the MMO player onslaught and content challenged gear legendary gear was dropping all over like rain - this excaserbated the ease of the game and the issue with lack of content. What could Turbine do? They couldn't reinvent the game, the AI - so they started with the NERF bat type stuff. Removing shrines, changing dungeons from their own 'fair' design to intridcue a false sense of challenged, pumping up MOBs saves and HPs and resistances and such beyond anything resembling D&D and other types of 'cheats; to make the game seem harder than it actually was as I described.
I won't argue that DDO is a very good idea and very rereshingly unique in some ways - but as a computer game it fails miserably to create real challenges that players have to act in the moment to overcome. The only real challenges are those determined by random server decisions or attributes and gear, not player action/inaction.
It is Dungeons and Dragons. Not an FPS. The PLAYERS skill has zip, zero, nada, to do with the character's ability to accomplish tasks. The skills that the character has determines that. Its the way AD&D has always worked. It's simply amazing how many people argue about a game mechanic that's innate to the title: Dungeons & Dragons. It is what it is. Don't sit here and argue that it doesn't work right, because it does. Just because you'd prefer it be done differently doesn't mean it's working 'wrong'.
Fair enough - but it makes for a video game with serious issues is what I am saying. And as many people know they have cheated the D&D rules quite a bit to toughen it up as it was getting waxed early on by players. So you get a bad video game with a stacked version of the D&D rules as well. It is little ownder the gaming public has largely rejected the game and populations remain very small.
What 'gaming public'? The game has plenty of players to be honest. I have played many games. And, like you I originally hated DDO... but since I came back in February I have really started to love it because they have fixed the vast majority of the innate flaws within the game at release. Sure there are still some problems but that's true of any MMO. To be frank DDO is currently a very polished title and is quite fun to play. New content is coming out on a regular basis and I never lack for things to do or people to play with.
To be honest unless you are going to provide factual data you really should avoid making generalizations about 'the gaming public' and it's attitude towards this, or that, title. Even here on this forum there are numerous threads from people who have left various other MMO's recently (including WoW, EQ2, etc) and love DDO. So your statements are 1 thing, and only 1 thing: Your personal opinion.
Most of your arguements are either a) Outdated or b) Flat out incorrect. The one actual "problem" you are correct about that I have seen in this entire thread is the lag issue. Which, by the way, has largely been resolved. Even with the new module out and gazillions of people logging in to try out the monk class there isn't very much lag. The huge lag issues of about a month ago appear to have been resolved.... at least I haven't smacked into any recently that I can think of.
I won't argue that DDO is a very good idea and very rereshingly unique in some ways - but as a computer game it fails miserably to create real challenges that players have to act in the moment to overcome. The only real challenges are those determined by random server decisions or attributes and gear, not player action/inaction.
Circular arguement. Sorry this is true of almost any video game I can think of. In any gaming environment with a static plotline there is no challenge, no matter how well the game is written. It's just a matter of figuring out the things you need to do to defeat any given situation within the game. Same is true for ANY computer game, including MMORPG's. And, frankly, if you honestly think that the players actions don't influence the outcome of fights you are delusional. There are many things players can do that directly influence the flow of a fight in the game. Sure there are many, even most, actions that rely on the skill and dice system (again, duh, that's how AD&D works). But if you really don't know that there are numerous areas in the game that directly rely on player ingenuity to accomplish tasks then you haven't really played very much of the game.
Currently Playing: Dungeons and Dragons Online. Sig image Pending Still in: A couple Betas
There are large subjective elements to any MMOs gameplay, which tends to mean people see things differently, and often see what they want to see.
A classic of this is when are you repeating something, personally I would much rather select from a couple of 100 quests with unique maps, traps, objectives than 1000 quests which are either deliver this, kill this unique or kill x with different mobs. Other peoples mileage obviously differs.
IMO this is probably because I am very aware of the mechanics behind a DDO quest compared to a simple MMO quest. The quantity of simple quests doesn't hide the fact my intelligence is being insulted.
Now some people seem to genuingly not be able to see the difference, as far as they are concerned if you end up killing an end boss, the traps, objectives, map layout, ambushes etc, make no difference it's a kill x with a boss. So they might as well just have lots of simple quests, it is the level they are working on.
But then I am amazed by what people are happy to do, like queueing to kill a unique boss when it spawns to complete a quest. How totally lame is that, give me a small group and instances any day, and a chance of some immersion.
I found this SShot tucked away somewhere, it about sums up the stuff I was saying about the AI.
I know people will explain it away a dozen ways but this kind of thing happens all the time, particularly at the higher levels where little bugs/glitches always seem to allow casters abilities they clearly should not have. Perhaps a wonky KD spell is no big deal, I would agree - but at higher levels when those spells become instant death or long duration holds or other such things that instantly remove you from the playing field such wonky-ness is a major, major flaw. And the age of the game, and the polish that much of it has gotten leaves me to believe such things are not accidental but the result of built in advantages for AI to simiulate challenge where, otherwise, none or little exists.
The screenshot is a joke and doesn't mean a shit. The balance check you saved is from trip effect (knockback) of the mechanical doggy. It doesn't mean you succeded the grease check on the ground. You see, it's just your inability to see the differences in rules and call it a bug.
You excuse your lack of knowledge with a bugged mechanism. How silly...
I would have to say if tthat picture are the types of "bugs" you are referring to than you should just give up gaming altogether. DDO is one of the most polished game out right now. If you do not understand the physics of d and d ask, why bash what you dont understand?
You made look yourself with the screenshot like someone who doesn't know what he's talking about but keep bashing, because he's just a troll. Seriously, you even wrote that large wall of text in your previous post about some ideal behind the game. Man, wake up. There are at least 50k people that enjoy the game for what it is and in addition the game has regular rich content updates. So it's nowhere nea being abandoned.
Two totally different games, LOTRO is another small step in the generally accepted evolution of MMOs that have features designed for mass market appeal, WoW being the largest. DDO was an attempt to break away from the tried and tested formula, active combat with real quests, which is exactly what it is. An experiment with obvious niche appeal. There is no evolutionary link between the two MMOs. One is a cash cow, the other is an attempt to try something new. Personally I believe that gives DDO much more gravitas.
I think there is a broader appeal for the system in general. It's just it was another game that hurt itself by releasing to early. Too many things not done and too little content at first. If this game that it is today were just released it would have done so much better. That is the problem with these games, sure there are some stragglers here and there over the years, but you only have one shot to get a huge base started and that is right up front.
The picture doesn't show me KD while saved - it shows the MOB on the level below completely out of range of using the spell he did casting it up on where I am. Iron Defenders are suppose to do that grease breath in the cone area in front of them - not up 40 feet above them on an entirely different level. As for the trip attack - must be nice to get a ranged trip attack when it is suppose to require melee ranging. This is the kind of thing that happens all over the game, albeit more so in higher levels. Is it a major thing in an of itself - no, but collectively it represents what I was describing about the AI glitching or cheating or being bugged in order to create the sense of a challenge instead of a real challenge. It is no big deal with a KD here or there - but up in levels with death spells and long term holds and such - it matters quite a bit.
Comments
Like a couple of other people have said Smith; I don't relly know how to respond. Your fever about arguing points that seem very alien to me is a bit disarming. DDO has things I like and things I don't and I only play it one out of every 3-4months (due mostly to lack of content) but the things you seem to have a problem with almost seem delusional to me. I haven't experinced the mobs playing by different rules (unless they where meant to), and the aspects of player skill is not unlike 99% of most other mmos, and while I agree that DDO dosen't have as strong of a following as it should due to design choices made, it's hardly a failure in the since that the game isn't making money or enjoyed by 10s of thosands of players. And, I play on 2 different servers and it is seldom on either server that I ever have trouble finding a team and both of the servers are pretty busy.
I cartainly not a fanboi and if you came out here with a greif that I understood i'd back you up, but I just don't see it. You certainly have your right to your opinion, but like everyone else I have to agree your off the mark. I would have to say your negative experience seems to be due to something out of DDO's control. Out of all the responses we aren't all apologists just because we don't agree with you. I certainly have no qualms about listing a list of problems I have about DDO (and have before), but there is nothing in the game that makes it almost unplayable or about to fall apart as you seem to be trying to indicate.
I never said the 'different rules' where not by design - I even suggested they are intentional. Clearly the game was beat bad when it went live and Turbine has spent the time since rigging the MOBs in a number of ways to make it seem more challenging. My contention is that by 'cheating' on what MOBs can do they are not making the game tougher they are only making encounters more gear/attribute driven and taking player skill/action out of the equation. As for populations and considering it as an indication of the game as a failure or success - I think DDO is easily a poster boy for failed MMOs, perhaps just behind Vanguard. Does Turbine make money off it - out of my realm of comment - but is it a good game received well by the general MMO public or even the IP fans - hardly.
--------------------------------
Achiever 60.00%, Socializer 53.00%, Killer 47.00%, Explorer 40.00%
Intel Core i7 Quad, Intel X58 SLi, 6G Corsair XMS DDR3, Intel X-25 SSD, 3 WD Velociraptor SATA SuperTrak SAS EX8650 Array, OCZ 1250W PS, GTX 295, xFi, 32" 1080p LCD
After 4 pages of back and forth on this opinion (sorry, don't have the time to read every page), my intuition about the game seems still to hold. I know there are folks who like it, that's good, I'm glad there is enough subscribers who enjoy DDO to keep its investment running. But from everything I've read about the game both here and from other informative sites, I know I'd find too much fault with it for my satisfaction. I'd much prefer playing NWN or NWN2 to get my AD&D fix online.
Its kind of a shame really, I had held out higher hopes for the game during its development, though its good to see that Turbine is still taking care of their current subscribers with added content. But...I can't stand Eberron, that along with other select, inherit features of the game, keep me away from it.
Even peace may be purchased at too high a price, and the only time you are completely safe is when you lie in the grave.
Sounds like you don't really have an opinion of your own, but are happy picking from other peoples.
That's not fair Rock. Not everyone plays every game to hit the market. People make choices and beliefs on secodary information on 99% of all subjects (hell that's what education is all about). Just because he doesn't come to a decision you do or like dosn't make it unvalid. Some people will enjoy DDO a lot won't I don't see any reason to think he can't make an informed opinion for himself based on filtering the information out there.
As for Smith, I still think your reaching .All MMO mobs do that to some extent. MObs and Players never play by the same rules. It's even part of game design philosophy.
I wasn't trying to be fair or unfair, was purely an observation, but I will elaborate.
The best opinion is one you form with direct experience, but it isn't practical for everyone to try every MMO that comes out. So we have to filter them in some way, normally based on some design feature they have or don't have. We may also take other peoples opinions in to account, although personally I think you have to approach any strong opinions (either way) with a healthy dose of realism.
Now most people do that, but there is a distinct difference when you go to the effort of posting to say you won't play something based on others opinions. It clearly shows the MMO is not off your radar, if it was you wouldn't bother with the effort of doing so. Then posting in a rather mad negative thread, and stating you haven't read it properly, but it confirms your intuitions, all seems a little mixed up for me.
Now funny enough I am in the same boat with AoC, I know there are elements in the design that will annoy me, poor group AI, homing projectiles, PvP focus, basic quests, and a questionable community. But I have a level of interest, intuitions yes, but nothing to base a real opinion on, I could go through the boards find enough evidence to prop up my intuitions and leave it there, or I could just try it when a trial comes out and have a real opinion.
In contrast WAR, I have no interest in and no opinion on. I don't need to state I won't be playing it, or find posts to back up a reason not to. I can just decide not to put it on my radar. If I did need to go on to the WAR boards to state I will not be playing it and justify why not, then I would have to question myself on why exactly I was going to that much effort.
Well Rock I am in the same place on both AOC and WAR. I came to the conclusion that AOC isn't what I want based upon what I have read about it, and I also have no real opinion about WAR other then it doesn't interest me. However, I have posted a couple of times in threads about the level of interest in the game that I have no interest in it.
IMO here is the bottom line with this game.
It's a unique group based PvE game. If you like group PvE, try it out, it's free! This game has zero grind/ x of x quest. It's quest are the most interactive. I guarantee the most mature player base, voice chat in groups works great. You can join a guild or jump into a pug's and have good success most of the time. This game is much different then a typical grind mmo, which most are.
Be prepared for a learning curve on build your character and getting total control of the interface. But stick with it both work well in the long-run. Also throw auto-attack away, this is the most real-time fantasy mmo, take advantage of it.
Perhaps, but the problem in DDO is the extent to which it does this and the extent to which the game's challenges rely on doing it which is far, far to often.
--------------------------------
Achiever 60.00%, Socializer 53.00%, Killer 47.00%, Explorer 40.00%
Intel Core i7 Quad, Intel X58 SLi, 6G Corsair XMS DDR3, Intel X-25 SSD, 3 WD Velociraptor SATA SuperTrak SAS EX8650 Array, OCZ 1250W PS, GTX 295, xFi, 32" 1080p LCD
Yes it was. But if you bothered to read more than one post before you decided to respond, you would see that I apologized for it...no need to dig it up gain.
Yes it was. But if you bothered to read more than one post before you decided to respond, you would see that I apologized for it...no need to dig it up gain.
Then i stand corrected.
I think the "turbine" that created this game, and the "turbine" that created lotro are two totally different companies! Not really, but I think the company had learned a lot from it's mistakes when it failed on D&D to please both the online faithful and the original P&P players that saw this game as a possible life-changer.
I think they are trying to do somewhat of a "re-try" on this title before it's graphics engine are out of date. I think they are really making strides in the right direction, but it will only be a distraction mmo for people who have quit their main... like a rest haven for wowers.
I guess there has to be somewhere for them to go, if they don't get hooked, and this game is the luke-warm game that it should be.
Elite poster by 82
Two totally different games, LOTRO is another small step in the generally accepted evolution of MMOs that have features designed for mass market appeal, WoW being the largest.
DDO was an attempt to break away from the tried and tested formula, active combat with real quests, which is exactly what it is. An experiment with obvious niche appeal.
There is no evolutionary link between the two MMOs. One is a cash cow, the other is an attempt to try something new. Personally I believe that gives DDO much more gravitas.
Which is also why it is such a love/hate game. Me I love it, you don;t enjoy yourself on more of the same ole same ole there's plenty out there for you....
You cannot judge a game based on its ideal, the idea behind it, alone. Heck, Vanguard had some great ideas the simply failed to deliver them in a cohesive and complete form. DDO is a great idea, and nicely unique. But key errors at launch have borked the game beyond reasonableness in many ways. The total lack of content early on, the misguided idea that doing the same content over and over would really be appealling to anyone - and yes all MMOs have repeated actions like kill 10 of X - but they don't always have the same MOBs in the same situations around the same corner every single time. Furthermore, the loot spillway early on was a huge mistake - in a game challenged to stand up to the MMO player onslaught and content challenged gear legendary gear was dropping all over like rain - this excaserbated the ease of the game and the issue with lack of content. What could Turbine do? They couldn't reinvent the game, the AI - so they started with the NERF bat type stuff. Removing shrines, changing dungeons from their own 'fair' design to intridcue a false sense of challenged, pumping up MOBs saves and HPs and resistances and such beyond anything resembling D&D and other types of 'cheats; to make the game seem harder than it actually was as I described.
I won't argue that DDO is a very good idea and very rereshingly unique in some ways - but as a computer game it fails miserably to create real challenges that players have to act in the moment to overcome. The only real challenges are those determined by random server decisions or attributes and gear, not player action/inaction.
--------------------------------
Achiever 60.00%, Socializer 53.00%, Killer 47.00%, Explorer 40.00%
Intel Core i7 Quad, Intel X58 SLi, 6G Corsair XMS DDR3, Intel X-25 SSD, 3 WD Velociraptor SATA SuperTrak SAS EX8650 Array, OCZ 1250W PS, GTX 295, xFi, 32" 1080p LCD
Bottom line:
It is Dungeons and Dragons. Not an FPS. The PLAYERS skill has zip, zero, nada, to do with the character's ability to accomplish tasks. The skills that the character has determines that. Its the way AD&D has always worked. It's simply amazing how many people argue about a game mechanic that's innate to the title: Dungeons & Dragons. It is what it is. Don't sit here and argue that it doesn't work right, because it does. Just because you'd prefer it be done differently doesn't mean it's working 'wrong'.
Fair enough - but it makes for a video game with serious issues is what I am saying. And as many people know they have cheated the D&D rules quite a bit to toughen it up as it was getting waxed early on by players. So you get a bad video game with a stacked version of the D&D rules as well. It is little ownder the gaming public has largely rejected the game and populations remain very small.
What 'gaming public'? The game has plenty of players to be honest. I have played many games. And, like you I originally hated DDO... but since I came back in February I have really started to love it because they have fixed the vast majority of the innate flaws within the game at release. Sure there are still some problems but that's true of any MMO. To be frank DDO is currently a very polished title and is quite fun to play. New content is coming out on a regular basis and I never lack for things to do or people to play with.
To be honest unless you are going to provide factual data you really should avoid making generalizations about 'the gaming public' and it's attitude towards this, or that, title. Even here on this forum there are numerous threads from people who have left various other MMO's recently (including WoW, EQ2, etc) and love DDO. So your statements are 1 thing, and only 1 thing: Your personal opinion.
Most of your arguements are either a) Outdated or b) Flat out incorrect. The one actual "problem" you are correct about that I have seen in this entire thread is the lag issue. Which, by the way, has largely been resolved. Even with the new module out and gazillions of people logging in to try out the monk class there isn't very much lag. The huge lag issues of about a month ago appear to have been resolved.... at least I haven't smacked into any recently that I can think of.
Circular arguement. Sorry this is true of almost any video game I can think of. In any gaming environment with a static plotline there is no challenge, no matter how well the game is written. It's just a matter of figuring out the things you need to do to defeat any given situation within the game. Same is true for ANY computer game, including MMORPG's. And, frankly, if you honestly think that the players actions don't influence the outcome of fights you are delusional. There are many things players can do that directly influence the flow of a fight in the game. Sure there are many, even most, actions that rely on the skill and dice system (again, duh, that's how AD&D works). But if you really don't know that there are numerous areas in the game that directly rely on player ingenuity to accomplish tasks then you haven't really played very much of the game.
Currently Playing: Dungeons and Dragons Online.
Sig image Pending
Still in: A couple Betas
There are large subjective elements to any MMOs gameplay, which tends to mean people see things differently, and often see what they want to see.
A classic of this is when are you repeating something, personally I would much rather select from a couple of 100 quests with unique maps, traps, objectives than 1000 quests which are either deliver this, kill this unique or kill x with different mobs. Other peoples mileage obviously differs.
IMO this is probably because I am very aware of the mechanics behind a DDO quest compared to a simple MMO quest. The quantity of simple quests doesn't hide the fact my intelligence is being insulted.
Now some people seem to genuingly not be able to see the difference, as far as they are concerned if you end up killing an end boss, the traps, objectives, map layout, ambushes etc, make no difference it's a kill x with a boss. So they might as well just have lots of simple quests, it is the level they are working on.
But then I am amazed by what people are happy to do, like queueing to kill a unique boss when it spawns to complete a quest. How totally lame is that, give me a small group and instances any day, and a chance of some immersion.
I found this SShot tucked away somewhere, it about sums up the stuff I was saying about the AI.
I know people will explain it away a dozen ways but this kind of thing happens all the time, particularly at the higher levels where little bugs/glitches always seem to allow casters abilities they clearly should not have. Perhaps a wonky KD spell is no big deal, I would agree - but at higher levels when those spells become instant death or long duration holds or other such things that instantly remove you from the playing field such wonky-ness is a major, major flaw. And the age of the game, and the polish that much of it has gotten leaves me to believe such things are not accidental but the result of built in advantages for AI to simiulate challenge where, otherwise, none or little exists.
--------------------------------
Achiever 60.00%, Socializer 53.00%, Killer 47.00%, Explorer 40.00%
Intel Core i7 Quad, Intel X58 SLi, 6G Corsair XMS DDR3, Intel X-25 SSD, 3 WD Velociraptor SATA SuperTrak SAS EX8650 Array, OCZ 1250W PS, GTX 295, xFi, 32" 1080p LCD
The particular picture your giving is a bad example and is not a bug. The guy is standing in grease, you will get knocked down on grease.
The screenshot is a joke and doesn't mean a shit. The balance check you saved is from trip effect (knockback) of the mechanical doggy. It doesn't mean you succeded the grease check on the ground. You see, it's just your inability to see the differences in rules and call it a bug.
You excuse your lack of knowledge with a bugged mechanism. How silly...
REALITY CHECK
I would have to say if tthat picture are the types of "bugs" you are referring to than you should just give up gaming altogether. DDO is one of the most polished game out right now. If you do not understand the physics of d and d ask, why bash what you dont understand?
You made look yourself with the screenshot like someone who doesn't know what he's talking about but keep bashing, because he's just a troll. Seriously, you even wrote that large wall of text in your previous post about some ideal behind the game. Man, wake up. There are at least 50k people that enjoy the game for what it is and in addition the game has regular rich content updates. So it's nowhere nea being abandoned.
REALITY CHECK
I think there is a broader appeal for the system in general. It's just it was another game that hurt itself by releasing to early. Too many things not done and too little content at first. If this game that it is today were just released it would have done so much better. That is the problem with these games, sure there are some stragglers here and there over the years, but you only have one shot to get a huge base started and that is right up front.
The picture doesn't show me KD while saved - it shows the MOB on the level below completely out of range of using the spell he did casting it up on where I am. Iron Defenders are suppose to do that grease breath in the cone area in front of them - not up 40 feet above them on an entirely different level. As for the trip attack - must be nice to get a ranged trip attack when it is suppose to require melee ranging. This is the kind of thing that happens all over the game, albeit more so in higher levels. Is it a major thing in an of itself - no, but collectively it represents what I was describing about the AI glitching or cheating or being bugged in order to create the sense of a challenge instead of a real challenge. It is no big deal with a KD here or there - but up in levels with death spells and long term holds and such - it matters quite a bit.
--------------------------------
Achiever 60.00%, Socializer 53.00%, Killer 47.00%, Explorer 40.00%
Intel Core i7 Quad, Intel X58 SLi, 6G Corsair XMS DDR3, Intel X-25 SSD, 3 WD Velociraptor SATA SuperTrak SAS EX8650 Array, OCZ 1250W PS, GTX 295, xFi, 32" 1080p LCD