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Everquest 2 our Vanguard?
nickman1993
Member Posts: 287
in Everquest II
Can't decide. Heard Vanguard's worth going back to and it like the everquest 3. But also heard grouping, maturity, and the polishedness of this game is better.
I prefer PvP and lots of crafting!
Does anyone have an y suggestion on why our why not i should do one our the other?
Comments
I didnt vote but you should goto the Vanguard forums
www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/category/188
I know they recently released Update 5
www.massively.com/2008/05/29/vanguard-game-update-5-goes-live/
EQ2 fan sites
I'm just curious but why did you put EQ2's option in leetspeak? Its kind of rude. Almost like you're making fun of EQ2 and have really already chosen Vanguard.
Personally I choose EQ2 but I won't vote in a poll thats so disrespectful.
Sry for not making this clear i thought i did......
Thank you for the apology.
I like Everquest because it has pretty much everything an MMO can offer. There's even so many quests that you can't possibly do them all. Solo, Group, and Raid instances, involved crafting (you don't push just one button and hope it comes out, its a mini game so the player is actually involved in the making of the item and too many errors while making th eitem will mean the item isn' t usable and only gives back some of what it was created with), quests quests and more quests, pvp for those who want it (I don't), a more mature game player base (ones that don't use leetspeak and often run around just randomly helping others with things like surprise heals and asking nothing in return), a good economy, and more.
Vanguard is still in its infancy and doesn't even remotely touch everything EQ2 offers. It may one day, but it doesn't now.
Hmmm well I bought Vanguard when it first came out and I jumped into it expecting something that would at the very least be interesting. I was extremely disapointed and I uninstaled it a few weeks later. I remember me and my house mates all being gob-smacked at how dreadful the graphics looked and the shameful framerate of the game. At some points it was almost unplayable.
I will admit that in some areas the game world itself looks quite nice but thats small compensation for the fact that the "nice looking gameworld" is so empty. Its also strange that the world occasionally looks good and yet the character models are extremely UGLY. Character customisation is almost non-existent. You have a choice of about 3 or 4 faces for each race and they all look the same! The hair styles are also a joke. Basicly every race has exactly the same body with the same starting clothes and only the head is different. What a cop-out!
Also dont be fooled by the diplomacy quests. They are absolutely pointless. You "play" a silly little game with npcs and as you progress it reveals lines of text in a conversation. You have no control over the conversation and you also cannot "lose" the diplomacy game as you simply just click on the npc and start it again, remembering which buttons that should and should not be clicked. They should simply remove the boring diplomacy game and simply have it say "Are you the right level for this conversation. Yes or no? If Yes then you can read the full conversation and go to the next npc. If its No then you cant".
Also it has a very small population playing it apparently. I did actually reinstall it a few months ago and I couldnt really see any difference except that maybe it ran a tiny bit smoother. Its still the same old pile of dog poo that it always was and it will never become a decent game. Why should it? There are other games to focus on.
EQ2 on the other hand has improved massively. I started playing it again recently and I am totally hooked. The graphics seem to be better (especially with the new soga models), it runs really smoothly on high settings, there is a HUGE amount of content (eg the quests seem to be endless & loads of different drops) and plenty of people play it so it is easy to get into a group. There are also a lot of mature people playing it who like to roleplay as well although it does have its share of morons like in any game but then what else can you expect from the human race? Crafting is also rather addictive and useful too and you can get involved in PvP if you want to.
The only problem I have with the game is the whole Good vs Evil plot which is completely meaningless and pointless. You either start in Qeynos or Freeport (or a few other good or evil places) and many of the quests and npcs make references to fighting against the opposing forces. However SOE doesnt seem to have a problem with the fact that the good and evil races can group up and go adventuring together. So my dwarf for example regularly ends up with trolls, ogres, dark elves and other evil races traveling with him which completely goes against the plotline of the game and is obviously a load of crap. Many players dont mind this and just want to have fun which is fine of course but its just a shame that the game itself does not fit the lore of the game world. Its clear that a number of people in the games design process just didnt get it. Oh well.
But yeah......EQ2 crushes Vanguard. There is no competition. EQ2 has eveything you will need
I currently play Vanguard and have since its release. It certainly had a horrible release, but has done a complete 180 and is moving forward in a positive direction at a record pace.
VG has superior graphics and has been built on an engine that supports newer technology, such as duel core processors, newer video card technology and the such. This game is so frickin beautiful to look at, its simply amazing (its obvious where Sigil spent a majority of its time, graphic design). The Vanguard world has NO instances or zone lines. No running to the zone line for safety here. Fight, out run or die. Another nice fact, if you can see it, you can get there. Whether its over mountain tops or across the sea, you can go there. Oh, did I mention you can rent flying mounts or when high enough level, you can acquire your own permanent flying griffon or wyvern.
When released, obviously premature, it had many areas that were not populated well or sparsely so. There are a couple areas that are still like that, but are being reserved for new high level content in the future. Otherwise, 99% of Telon is adequately populated.
Character customization is merely fair, but some sacrifices (facial) had to be made to support helmets, but will return in the future. And really, how much time do we spend looking at faces. Its fun for all of a minute. Lets move on.
Diplomacy has an absolute purpose, not apparent to those that did not progress very far in it. First and for most it provides one of the many ways to raise faction for certain races as to open up more quest lines. Second, and hardly that, it provides buffs to the immediate region in which the diplomacy was engaged. These buffs range from combat, crafting to more diplomacy capabilities and bonuses and are selectable depending on what an individual chooses. And different areas have different buffs than others. When our guild raids, we have people that go to 2-3 different cities to raise the diplomacy buffs to increase the raid forces combat skills before going to the raid, as these buffs last for 1-3 hours. Diplomacy also can decrease the amount that general goods cost, increase the amount given when selling items and many other details. Its very unique and plays much like Magic: The Gathering.
With the significant improvements to performance and bug fixes, the populations are growing on a daily basis, with the exception of the PVP server. I will admit, if PVP is your game style, there are much better options out there.
Crafting in Vanguard is second to none. Crafting includes making just about anything you can put your hands on (housing materials and decorating items, boats and boat building materials, gear for horses, weapons, armor and everything in between). I know you can decorate your house in EQ2, but can you choose what continent and where you want to build it, or is it just a door to an instance? How about boats that can carry you and your friends and go in any direction you choose?? Vanguard has it!! Harvesting is also another aspect of VG, you can choose to log, mine for ore or minerals, reap plants and skin animals for crafting or just sell on the market to make money.
There is no "good and/or evil" thing going on in Vanguard. Just like in RL, some races do not get along with others and it is up to you as an individual to raise your faction to pass safely, interact with the city folk and/or acquire quests from those certain areas. Again, very open and non linear in nature.
The level of race and class diversity is totally awesome. All classes have their stong and weak points, as the game is based on the idea of being a community game. Many classes have multiple lines of focus to develop. For example, if you want to make a Cleric that is better at combat, than healing, you simply choose an affinity (religion) that allows you to develop your combat skills or spell damage skills more than your healing skills.
Vanguard has excellent solo, group and raid content. As it will only continue to increase in content over time, much like EQ1 and 2 did. I promise, there is no lack of content to keep you busy as these continents are HUGE!!
All that being said, there are many similarities between the two games, as the original developers of EQ1, also made Vanguard. I did play EQ1 for 5 years and EQ2 for almost 2 1/2 years. So my opinions are not based on a fly by night observation or opinions expressed in forums such as this. I simply chose Vanguard to dedicate my time to, as I saw that it had more diversity, potential and quality than what EQ2 is able to deliver over the long run for me( PURELY MY POINT OF VIEW !! ).
I think that it is always up to the individual to find the things he likes in a game and roll with them. Unfortunately EQ2 did not do it for me, but Vanguard does and this is not intended to be a bash on the former. After all, it was something I enjoyed, but enjoy VG more. I have recently decided to start posting on this particular websites forums to clear up the confusion, old or misinformation, conjecture and general bashing when it simply isn't true.
EQ2 has a free trial option, I suggest trying it. Unfortunately, VG does not at this point, but buddy keys are available, in which you can play the game for the first 30 days for free.
Vanguard ROCK!!
Peace!!
Khilla has made some very good points in the post above.....which is very well written by the way. The point he made about being able to see for miles and actually go there is a very good one and something that I did actually like about the game. The lack of character customisation and the general ugliness of the models was an issue for me personally though. I just find it hard to get into a game if the character I am controling (and looking at all the time) looks completely ridiculous. No we dont always stare at our own characters faces but at least some variety would have been nice......and the problem with helmets is no excuse (EQ2 and many other games dont have this issue). All of those other features that Khilla mentioned are indeed in the game and EQ2 is certainly more restrictive in what you can and cant do. Its just that I prefer quality over quantity and in my opinion EQ2 wins in that respect. Both games have a wide variety of races and classes to choose from but in EQ2 they look very different from each other, having different models for each one while Vanguard reuses the same model for every race.
It just goes to show that you can get everyones opinions on both games and try and take it all on board if you like but really you are going to have to make the decision on your own. Just pick one and try it and if it doesnt work out for you then you have only lost a small amount of money. Whats £30 in a lifetime?
They are both good games. As posted earlier, Vanguard has come a long way since release. However, I for one am just sick of fantasy MMOs.....any more Elves with 'moon' in their names and I may go postal.....
Try em both
I suggest taking some screen shots of your characters in EQ2 and I will post screen shots of my characters from Vanguard. I'd would love to compare and see what people have to say. I have a couple low and mid level characters and my main. What do you say??
Peace!!
Actually I will admit to something that I dislike about EQ2......although its something that has improved over time. Quite a lot of the armour and clothing does actually look the same or at least very similar. This is particularly true of the robes in which the same basic graphic is re-used but with slightly different textures.
Your viewpoint on Vanguard is definately more reliable than mine as I never progressed very far in the game......so actually yes I would be interested in seeing some screenshots of some of your avatars actually. I did see one or two high level players (there were not many people around to be honest) when I was on and they actually looked very bland but maybe that was just those people in particluar.
I have a level 26 dwarf berserker in EQ2. Obviously he isnt very high level (I'm not exactly a hardcore player) so his armour is a bit so-so and maybe not a particularly good comparison but I will happily post a screenshot of him......except I have no idea of how to do it! Yep thats right I'm a numpty. I have the pic saved as a jpeg but I just cant see any way of inserting or posting pictures using this website. Any pointers?
I'm actually rather interested in seeing some of your screenshots. Ya never know I may even be tempted to give Vanguard another go.......although with Age of Conan currently out and Warhammer on its way it probably wouldnt be viable for me.
In regards to characters - Vanguard has better armor and EQ2 has more character customization (outside of clothing).
EQ2's skeletal system is crappy, which is why the devs doesn't have a lot of models for armor. The way it is set up, when they make an item, they have to remake it for every race/sex combination. They are currently in the process of revamping the skeletal system so the armor design process will be much smoother and they only have to design an item once. When that happens, I expect to see a HUGE increase in item models.
That being said, I enjoy EQ2 much better than Vanguard. I played vanguard for a bit, but not extensively, so I can't comment on much. The one thing that I loved about Vanguard was the diplomacy system; more MMOs need to make a spin on dialog like this.
Hmmmm what you say about EQ2's skeletal system is really interesting. I wasnt aware of that so thanks. I dont suppose you have a link to any articles about them revamping their system do you? I would be interested in reading more about it.
Regarding diplomacy in Vanguard......well I loved the idea of it too but in my opinion the opportunity for its uses in Vanguard seemed to be completely wasted. I know that you can use it to effect city wide buffs which is quite nice and also to have an impact on your faction status with certain groups......which is perhaps not so ground-breaking (afterall you can effect faction status in many mmos simply by doing quests for certain npcs). Unfortunately I found the way they set up the diplomacy game to be extremely basic and transparent and ultimately seemed unnecessary. It seemed to me that it wasnt actually a game as such because each conversation had a set way of progressing through it. You could simply "win" the conversation through trial and error........then again any computer game can be beaten through trial and error so maybe I have defeated my own viewpoint with my own logic. Utimately though I just didnt find it entertaining after a few goes at it and it rapidly became uninteresting. The fact that the npc's actually looked like statues with no attempt at giving them any semblance of a personality only helped to break the immersion factor even further for me.
How about relatively simple things such as giving the player a selection of answers during a conversation so the flow of conversation can be different for each player. For example, the player meets a forester who wants them to help him gather bear skins (the usual mmo crap quest!). If the character is a ranger they may have an option to go against the npc and help save some bears instead by killing some poachers. This could be interesting from a PvP standpoint as it could give a reason for players to fight other players with conflicting views and agendas. Also in this way each chat with an npc would be like a flowchart and would have varied endings and results. Different quests or rewards may be obtained in this way. So for example being rude and aggressive to Mr Wibble may cause him to send you to a friend npc of his (Mr Wobble?) who will give you a particular quest. Being nice and polite may cause him to reward you with an item and then send you off somewhere else entirely.
Of course I realise this would no doubt get complicated in a large mmo (its just an idea) but surely something could be added to break it away from just being a set block of text that never changes. Online games are improving all the time though as they are only in their infancy at the moment so things can only get better.
But thumbs up to Vanguard for at least attempting to break the mold by adding diplomacy rather than repeating the formulaes of all the other games that force you to kill everything to make any progress.
Well, here ya go. Here are some screen shots of Vanguard (This post is not intented to bash ANY other game, just satisfy some curiosity). Keep in mind that these images were taken with my game settings on medium quality, as I only have a 7900 video card. The character images were taken with their helmets off, so you could see the facial quality. Hope you enjoy the scenery.
Characters:
High Elf Sorcerer
img81.imageshack.us/img81/4984/highelfsorcereryk8.jpg
Half Giant Dread Knight
img81.imageshack.us/img81/6759/halfgiantdreadknightwg5.jpg
Wood Elf Bard
img81.imageshack.us/img81/2889/woodelfbardpu8.jpg
Kurashasa Ranger
img81.imageshack.us/img81/4742/kurashasarangeryn6.jpg
Scenery:
img218.imageshack.us/img218/2204/screenshot00028io4.jpg
img218.imageshack.us/img218/3129/screenshot00055tv8.jpg
img218.imageshack.us/img218/5493/screenshot00033sz0.jpg
img218.imageshack.us/img218/7619/screenshot00064uv2.jpg
img218.imageshack.us/img218/9564/screenshot00014zr9.jpg
img218.imageshack.us/img218/2149/screenshot00012xm7.jpg
img218.imageshack.us/img218/6209/screenshot00024hx6.jpg
img81.imageshack.us/img81/1432/screenshot00001xo0.jpg
Peace!!
Well, here ya go. Here are some screen shots of Vanguard (This post is not intented to bash ANY other game, just satisfy some curiosity). Keep in mind that these images were taken with my game settings on medium quality, as I only have a 7900 video card. The character images were taken with their helmets off, so you could see the facial quality. Hope you enjoy the scenery.
Characters:
High Elf Sorcerer
img81.imageshack.us/img81/4984/highelfsorcereryk8.jpg
Looks okay i suppose, imho elfs with SOGA look better in eq2 though, sorry =/
Half Giant Dread Knight
img81.imageshack.us/img81/6759/halfgiantdreadknightwg5.jpg
Better than the barbarians in eq2... but not by much tbh
Wood Elf Bard
img81.imageshack.us/img81/2889/woodelfbardpu8.jpg
Ugly and terrible. I'm sorry. Awkward body proportions, anorexic face(not just narrow, theres a different). Not even comparable to eq2
Kurashasa Ranger
img81.imageshack.us/img81/4742/kurashasarangeryn6.jpg
Do i even need to say it? It's frankly worse then any screenshot you could ever get from eq2 regarding models
Scenery:
img218.imageshack.us/img218/2204/screenshot00028io4.jpg
img218.imageshack.us/img218/3129/screenshot00055tv8.jpg
img218.imageshack.us/img218/5493/screenshot00033sz0.jpg
img218.imageshack.us/img218/7619/screenshot00064uv2.jpg
img218.imageshack.us/img218/9564/screenshot00014zr9.jpg
img218.imageshack.us/img218/2149/screenshot00012xm7.jpg
img218.imageshack.us/img218/6209/screenshot00024hx6.jpg
img81.imageshack.us/img81/1432/screenshot00001xo0.jpg
Peace!!
Beautiful scenery... But not all areas of vg look that great, especially when playing normal, but the same goes for eq2.
From my experiences with both, here i go:1. Quests, solo they both are fine. But for group quests? Vg is a LOT worse. Take a look at the armor quests in your 20's for example, 1 drop per group mob for 1 member of your group. It sucked, it pretty much killed the game, since i was told that, that's nothing abnormal for the game.
2. Crafting, eq2 vs VG. This is where i have trouble drawing a line between them. I loved them both.
VG is a lot more frustrating with it's system, the fact that you need crafting gear, you need to look up and research ways to "Cap" skills as you level, and then level them at certain rates to get skills at certain times. It's really a lot of tedium to the system, but the use of skills during crafting is fun, and getting high quality items is rewarding. But at the same time, work orders for crafting is simply really tedious, while this does avoid the need to grind materials just to level, it also makes it more tedious.
EQ2 on the other hand, is a bit simpler, but at the same time, it's friendlier regarding it's system. The "problems" that arise(VG's system ripped off eq2's btw, and tried to improve it, but just made it unnecessarily complicated) are easier to counter, and doesn't make it seem like your totally stuck to the whims of fate.
3. Combat... i like eq2's better imho, eq2 is just smoother imho. But VG's is not bad by any means. It's just my personal preference.
4. Animation... This is where VG fails. The animation's are just terrible beyond belief. EQ2 is just fine.
5. Character customization
a. Features. EQ2 has 2 models for most humanoid races, which allow you to choose a more game/animeish look(soga) and a more eq/realistic styles. Both of these look better then vanguards in every way. As well as way more race selection and class availbility to all races. The problem simply is people have their preferences for which version they like for different races. And since not everyone likes the same, you can have people looking at you in the mode you don't like.
Vanguard on the other hand... has more body customization, but honestly, they don't look that great =/ And really to me the customization system of vanguards body doesn't really work as customization, but more "working to get a good non freakish body"
b. Class selection. the main difference is healers. eq2=warder, HoT's, reactives. vg=caster/healer, melee/healer. Otherwise its traditional mmo fair for both. But i consider the necromancer in eq2 to be far better then the vg one(in game, on paper vg is more interesting)
c. Class individuality. How different am i from bob? Honestly it's been awhile so i'm not sure if things have changed. But beyond a few "class path choices" such as shamans choosing which deity. paladin=paladin etc etc. EQ2 has way more customization due to achievements(which are fun to get! it's a blast really since it rewards you from playing the game rather then just grinding). so if this matters at all to you, eq2 is your choice.
d. Houses, eq2 has em, to my knowledge vg doesn't.
e. Guilds, i don't have much experience with vgs, but eq2 had a far better system in place when i last played.
Overall i'd say go with EQ2 first. It's a far better game -overall-. VG is a good game, and once you get tired with eq2, go to VG, you'll have fun there too.
But to me, VG was a bit too similar to eq2 and wasn't nearly as fun or rewarding. + the horrible animations and awkward looking models.
So do you have some screen shots to post or are the good people just supposed to take your word on it. I wouldn't !!
It appears you haven't played VG for some time, but thats ok. I'm glad you enjoy EQ2, as I once did as well. I played EQ2 for over 2 1/2 years and enjoyed it.
My intention was to try and get some screen shots up for the good people that may not have played either one (EQ2 or VG). You'll never convince me of which I think is better as I know which I am paying for at the moment (VG).
Response to some of your points:
1. Unfortunately you were mis informed. The fact is, if you have the quest, accomplish the quest goal, you will get the drop. There is an exception, quests that have a collection aspect that require a random drop, may not drop every time (similiar in both games, if I'm not mistaken). But again, only people that have the quest will see the drop, regardless of what else may drop from the mob.
2. Crafting Gear: Frustrating or Customizable?? I think only the player can decide in which they like. A couple reasons for doing "work orders" is 1. purchase advanced recipes for better crafted items and 2. to increase/decrease faction without having to adventure. Crafting is one of the three stand alone "professions" in VG, as well as Adventuring and Diplomacy.
3. Combat, any monkey can do this in either game. Its all move the mouse and push buttons.
4. Animations, again, yours is old news. A lot of classes have been updated with only a few remaining. Time on market is EQ2's only advantage here, as they were poor at release as well. If a person thinks that VG is awkward, then EQ2 is not that much different (spell cating effects, sweeping strikes, combat combinations.... and the list continues).
5a. Again, time is the only advantage EQ2 has here again. It has been stated by the Lead Dev that facial customization will not only return, but be improved upon (body customization is still in effect). But I still want to see some screen shots to compare, so we can all see what is current in EQ2 and VG.
b and c. VG actually has 4 different healers: Clerics, Disciples, Blood Mages and Shaman. All with there own development tree (affinities, class path, whatever you want to call it). Clerics have 5 different affinities to progress in. Disciples have their heal ability based on damage dealt (similar to monk style fighting), with no mana requirements. Blood Mages are a form of caster/healer/necro, specializing in group healing. Shamans have 3 class paths to follow (Bear, Wolf and Phoenix), having excellent buffs and heals.
d. This really shows how long you haven't played the game. Houses have been in game since April '07, at least. The game has areas dedicated to building your own house (no shared or instances here), with each continent having its own 3 styles (tiers) of house. First, you have to choose where you want to build by finding and selecting a plot, buying the plot, then acquiring the materials to build the house. You can make the building materials through crafting or just purchase them from a crafter (If you want to save money, you can harvest the raw materials to have converted into the materials needed). If you have a guild, your guild leader can purchase a Guild Hall plot, which requires a lot of money and work in harvesting, crafting and diplomacy (the King wont let just anybody build one). VG also includes all the goodies such as housing items (which includes chests, to put non housing items in, such as gear and much more) to fill your new house, just like EQ2.
e. Again, VG guilds have all the features that EQ2 has. Nothing more to be said about that. But, not sure if EQ2 has Brotherhoods and/or Caravans. Brotherhoods allow players of similar level to ban together and share XP. This is great if you have friend(s) that cant play as much to keep up without having to be on. Caravans are similar, except that instead of XP, they allow the player to teleport to the current location of the other players. Both are efforts to make grouping a bit more friendly amongst friends, without being left behind.
I'm not trying to say which game is better, just inform. Only the individual can make that call. I don't think people interested in either will be too disappointed. Some technical facts though. VG is built on an engine that takes advantage of duel core processors and newer video card technology and EQ2 isn't unfortunately (read for yourself... www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/game/2/feature/1967 ). So if you have a new computer, why look at older graphics, check out VG first.
Btw, I think you may have mis interpreted what the screen shots represented. They were meant to show facial and body structure, not the actual gear they were wearing.
More importantly, I don't think they were meant to look identical either. How sucky would that have been if they made them look the same. My idea of an elf differs from both of them, doesn't mean I think they suck.
Peace!!
I play both currently and love them both. But you specifically mentioned you love PvP and crafting. I play on PvE servers; however, I often hear complaints about how empty the Vanguard PvP server is. So if you specifically seek PvP, EQ2 might be a better option.
As far as crafting, EQ2's crafting is easier and now they have the crafting epics that gets you a fancy cloak and run speed earring. But if you want your crafting to be a bit more challenging, then Vanguard also has a great crafting system.
A couple of you above mentioned the quest drop situation in Vanguard. My husband and I have run into this several times and yes it's been frustrating. We recently were working on the hunter's league armor quest. The mob would only drop one piece, so depending on who looted it, only that person got the update. Also that URT armor quest where we had to collect something like 25 mushrooms and there are only 5 that you have to wait to respawn. Meanwhile, there are several other people running around trying to collect them as well. It didn't matter if we grouped, only one person got the quest item.
But that aside, I still love other aspects of Vanguard so am willing to deal with a few frustrations here and there. I'd say try EQ2 since they have the free trial. If that doesn't grab you then pick up Vanguard.
I forgot about those quests and you're right, Cherise. Its been a long time since I have done lower level quests, as a lot of the higher level quests do not seem to abide by that. I think, because of the kill stealing, ninja looting and other nefarious activity, those things were changed to avoid these issues. Keep in mind, that quests such as Hunters League, CIS, and Wardship are not your standard run of the mill quests either. These are major quest lines for the various level ranges. But thanks for reminding me.
I did liked Hunters League, never did URT. I out leveled that quest before I knew what it was.
The Wardship and CIS quest lines can be challenging as well.
Your definitely right on the PVP situation, as Vanguard has little to no focus on PVP atm. They have been offering transfers off the PVP server for months now, with no explanation.
Thanx for all the awesome info. you guys really put a lot into your posts. I decided to buy vanguard. It was only $10 on ebay and ill use the free 30day month thing.
BUT i will also be using the 60days that i got from everquest 2 re-activating account so i can get a great taste of both of the games. Should be awesome thanks again. If there are still more info you'd like to post for someone else your just to post because you can then feel feel but my question was answerd!
EQ2 is MUCH better. Vanguard has a low population and is still a bit buggy. Personally I lke EQ2 combat better, as well as the PvP
Ah well it seems the decision has been made......sort of. You certainly cant go wrong with $10. I unfortunately paid the full £30 (I'm in the UK) for Vanguard when it first came out. Despite the fact that earlier I said that £30 is nothing in a lifetime I still rather regretted the purchase but oh well.
Regarding those screenshots of the character models you posted Khilla. They actually arent too bad are they. It should be pointed out though that each of those screenshots face-wise is what every player of that race will look like. There is no noticeable facial customisation (to be fair EQ2s isnt much better either with its many sliders which do diddly-squat!) and as I mentioned before the bodies are all basicly the same although you can make them wide, thin, short or tall etc. The shape remains the same though for every race. When I played it a few months ago the hair selection was still awful beyond belief with only one hair style for each race which just passed as "bearable". The other hair styles and facial hair options simply looked embarassing. It would be interesting to see some other screenshots of models of the same races but as customised as you can get them (eg different hair etc).
The environments do also look nice but I remember it being that way when I played it a few months back......well as long as I didnt move too much cos it did tend to lag rather a lot which is something I dont get in EQ2, which is mostly very smooth indeed (I have the same graphics card as Khilla). On launch mind you it was a lag monster from hell but then that was 4 years ago.
Anyway I finally got round to taking a load of screenshots. As you can see I got totally carried away and just thought "oh sod it" and put the lot on. What I have done is take screenshots from the character creation screens so everyone can see a variety of different races (most but not all are shown) and what they look like when dressed in their starter gear for certain classes. In some cases I took multiple screenshots of the same race but randomised them so that despite the rubbish slider controls you can see the variety that can be achieved with simple stuff like hair, skin colour and tattoes/adornments.
http://www.clockworkforge.com/images/barbarian_berserker.jpg
http://www.clockworkforge.com/images/barbarian_closeup.jpg
http://www.clockworkforge.com/images/darkelf_necromancer.jpg
http://www.clockworkforge.com/images/fae.jpg
http://www.clockworkforge.com/images/froglok.jpg
http://www.clockworkforge.com/images/gnome_closeup.jpg
http://www.clockworkforge.com/images/halfelf_conjuror.jpg
http://www.clockworkforge.com/images/halfling.jpg
http://www.clockworkforge.com/images/highelf_ranger.jpg
http://www.clockworkforge.com/images/human_closeup1.jpg
http://www.clockworkforge.com/images/human_closeup2.jpg
http://www.clockworkforge.com/images/human_closeup3.jpg
http://www.clockworkforge.com/images/iksar_shadowknight.jpg
http://www.clockworkforge.com/images/kerra_monk.jpg
http://www.clockworkforge.com/images/ogre_inquisitor.jpg
http://www.clockworkforge.com/images/ratonga_assassin.jpg
http://www.clockworkforge.com/images/troll_closeup.jpg
http://www.clockworkforge.com/images/woodelf_fury.jpg
I also took a few pictures of my dwarf berserker Grudgeman Grumbleshield so people can get an idea of what the character models look like when in the game world. The first two are in Antonica and the last one is in Graystone yard in the city of Qeynos. I didnt travel around and take shots of different places because....well.....after taking so bloody many screenshots I just couldnt be bothered. He's only level 27 anyway so his armour isnt exactly the best in town anyway.
http://www.clockworkforge.com/images/grudgeman1.jpg
http://www.clockworkforge.com/images/grudgeman2.jpg
http://www.clockworkforge.com/images/grudgeman3.jpg
When I played Vanguard I just couldnt overlook the fact that it starts every player in a dreadful white shirt and silly pants. Maybe if you play it for long enough you may be able to get your hands on something that doesnt look quite so terrible (as you have shown in your screenshots). EQ2 on the other hand starts you off in armour and weaponry suited to your class (my berserker started in platemail and had two axes) so each class has its own look. Also you will notice that different models have been used for every race (although elves generally look similar etc) while Vanguards models all have the same anatomy (give or take a bit of stretching). Trolls are gnarly and distorted, ratonga actually look like walking rats, halflings are cute and child-like, Ogres are hulking muscled brutes and fairies even have animated fluttering wings. These are all also screenshots of the newer soga models (except for trolls, iksar, ratonga and kerra which dont have any) as I cant see why anyone would actually choose to use and view the older less attractive models.
I also cant help but notice that the anatomy of Vanguards models just isnt right at all. They look so weird, as though they have strange lumps in the centre of their chests and it seems like all of them have been hit on the head with a giant mallet, resulting in a squashed neandathal look. Its very strange indeed. They look even more weird when they move because the animations are all wrong......but it has been mentioned that they are fixing this so maybe they look ok now.
I also dont mean to bash Vanguard but everyone has games they like and dislike and we cant help but stand by the ones we support. Vanguard does have its good points but from my experience it just seemed to be vastly outweighed by its bad points and came across to me as an unsatisfactory package. Its possible that it may improve as time goes by.......but as time goes by better and more advanced games are being made so why bother? I keep hearing people say the word "potential" when they speak about mmo's but if its not brilliant in the first place then I dont think it stands much chance to be honest. EQ2 is now a reasonable mmo but it took 4 years to get there and now bigger and better games are in the works that are based on much more advanced game engines.
To be quite honest I have yet to come across any online roleplaying game that I would genuinely say is a really good game. Afterall they are essentially designed as single player story driven games that makes every player the central star of the story. They all seem to rely on hooking the player with hollow rewards rather than genuinely fun gameplay such as so-called "new" item drops ("wow! This hammer does 50 damage which is better than the last hammer which did 30 damage! Its SO different"), more xp to get that next level......all of which allows you to move to the next stage of the theme-park ride where you can battle with more monsters that are actually all the same as each other. They all have the same limited AI except they are wearing different zip-up costumes ("I wonder what that spider will do if I go near it? Or how about that orc? Maybe I should try approaching that Aadvark? Hmmm I wonder how I should tackle this tricky and interesting situation? Shall I cast a spell and create a bridge across that chasm or maybe I should try and outwit that orc by challenging it to a game of dice? Oh never mind I cant anyway....all I can do is attack it and eat its soul so I am that little bit closer to being able to beat up its slightly bigger cousin further down the road"). These games dont really draw players in with good gameplay but rather rely on keeping us all addicted with the mythical golden carrot dangled in front of our noses. Funny thing is even though I know that these mmo's actually suck in reality (afterall I doubt anyone would sit there reading the terrible mission text such as "Mr Wibble has lost his cake mixture.....could you go and kill 5 bats so he can make some more?" and endlessly repeating the same fights with 20 billion identical boars/spiders/whatever if they didnt get rewatded with "phat loot" and "xp" and "more levels") I still carry on playing cos I'm addicted as the rest of them :-)
So basicly the thing is yeah I dont really like Vanguard because it simply isnt a very good game but then to be honest neither is EQ2. Its just that it seems to be the better of the bunch.......and its bloody addictive even though I can see right through it. Damn me and my weak willpower!!
Now I'm off to grind out some quests and pretend that I'm getting somewhere.
ps. Nickman it would be interesting to hear what you think of each of those games after you have played them for a bit. Your feedback would be interesting.
pps. Yes I know I am a very cynical person. I'm just stating it as it is. The truth is the truth. Flame shield activated. Deflector pads at 100%
ppps. My god! Have I seriously just typed all of this?!! I think I need some fresh air!!
Hopefully my last post here. Vanguards performance has been vastly improved. Hardly a bug to be found, but certainly a few, but very minor (not much different from any other games I've played). Its actually encouraging to see the dev team finally be able to focus on more content than having to fix bugs, hitching, memory leaks.... and so on. Since GU5 has been released, I would encourage anyone to give it a try or return to check out how far it has risen form the ashes. PVP players beware, VG is a PVE centric game. Seradon is one of the most populated servers and you will not have any trouble finding people there.
Good luck to you all and I hope you find what your looking for, as I have for the time being in VG.
Peace!!
PS. Lol, those screen shots definately brought back some memories. Thanks for taking the time to post them. Maybe I'll add a few to show more in game content with characters in them.