Originally posted by BellaH The real issue with the calculation of subs is the fact that so many people have 4 and or 5 accounts..this is infact only 1 player!
Why would anyone have 4 or 5 accounts? Two I could see if you really needed to play both Horde and Alliance on the same server.
Ico Oh, cruel fate, to be thusly boned. Ask not for whom the bone bones. It bones for thee.
The real issue with the calculation of subs is the fact that so many people have 4 and or 5 accounts..this is infact only 1 player! and then there are still many farmers with tons of accounts on 1 ip! and that sort of thing farmers do not link accounts and as such get counted as single subs. Just my 2 cents for all its worth, but it does tend to lead them to look a little shady in the numbers dept. Retrad great link!
Lol, subscription means the people who pay for the game. In a subscription (account) you can create a maximum of 10 character in every realm. Thus, I think you're missing the point. I have numerous toons in 5 realm, 10 in Shu'alo.
__________________ Playing: EVE & Runescape @ work : P
Originally posted by BellaH Your guess is as good as mine...but most likly for farming I would think
That's the point though: farmers may have multiple accounts, but I'd be willing to wager the mass community does not. Blizzard negated the reason for multiple accounts by allowing users to create up to 50 characters (10 per realm).
Ico Oh, cruel fate, to be thusly boned. Ask not for whom the bone bones. It bones for thee.
I have to agree. I'm missing the entire point of this post. Well, perhaps the reasoning more then the point. I see that you say your point is that WoW is past it's "golden age". Who cares? I suppose it validates your dislike of the game to state that the game does not have as many subs as they're claiming. Hmm, who knows for sure.
While I myself don't play WoW, I will say, they have a hell of a lot more subs that any other game on the market. As a matter of fact, I don't recall any mmo even coming within 5 million subs. I play eq2, and I think they are somewhere around 400K.
So I would have to disagree. whether they have 10 million subs or 8 million subs, they're still leading the pack by quite a margin. Based on the amount of subs, I would have to say that they are still within "golden age" terminology. Until they dip below 1 million, then I may change my mind on this.
I completly agree, and just saw the thread so i commented..the numbers thing is a bit funny..but yea not sure what the point in the thread was other then there is a little farming going on. But i think we all knew that
EDIT: Whoops meant to quote this one -> "Why would anyone have 4 or 5 accounts? Two I could see if you really needed to play both Horde and Alliance on the same server."
Or you could just listen to the folks who actually have an accurate count of the numbers?
I don't know why anyone in their right mind would trust Warcraft realms stats or anyone else's for that matter over Blizzard's. It's their servers, it's their game, you can bet they know exactly how many subscribers they have. You can assume they are lieing if you want, but then why would you assume that Wacraft realms is telling the truth? If Blizzard was actually lieing and was caught, what exactly would happen? It would be front page news on every major newspaper, news program and internet site. They would instantly lose a huge amount of respect from the entire gaming industry. They have a ton to lose if they are caught lieing. Now, what would happen if Warcraft Realms were caught lieing. Nobody would even care. No one. It would be a non news event.
I'm not saying that Warcraft realms is lieing, I believe their numbers to be as accurate as they can get them, but that's the problem, they just are not accurate. It's a small sampling. Way too small to be considered accurate in the least. Even if the samplings increased to the point where 100% of the players used the tool, it still would not be accurate because all it does is monitor characters, not accounts. They have no way of knowing how many accounts and therefore they have no way of tieing those numbers directly to subscribers. It's apples to oranges. Only Blizzard knows what the numbers are. Believe them or not, it's up to you, but don't offer Warcraft Realms as proof it's inaccurate. That's a fairy tale.
The real issue with the calculation of subs is the fact that so many people have 4 and or 5 accounts..this is infact only 1 player! and then there are still many farmers with tons of accounts on 1 ip! and that sort of thing farmers do not link accounts and as such get counted as single subs. Just my 2 cents for all its worth, but it does tend to lead them to look a little shady in the numbers dept. Retrad great link!
Got news for you, a subscription is a subscription regardless of whether it's 1 person or 10. I used to work for a newspaper and subscriptions were important for determining things like revenue and such. You think we cared whether a person bought 1 newspaper or 3? That's still 3 subscriptions regardless. It's not shady in the least, it's how every single entity in the entire world counts subscriptions, by the number sold, not the number of people sold to.
I can easily beleive that there is 10M players I have 2 Different Characters 1 Alliance 1 Horde on Different Servers and I play alot and whenever I am on the places are packed you never go more than 2 mins without seeing someone lol
Nope didn't miss anything, many people have multiple accounts, not only multiple characters
And most people who have mulitple accounts multi-box so whats your point?
I think prime time playing largely reflects raiding by players since the only time people raid is during their prime time. Not to say that people don't do arenas, obviously BG/Arenas are very very popular but they can be done anytime. Since you need more people for raiding you need to do it at a time that most people have available.
If active prime time activity is what is shown in that graph then it is very interesting. About August/sept last year there was a lot of (good)complaints that raiding in WoW was too time consuming and elitist. I knew a lot of people who turned their attention towards Arenas and gave up on raiding. In my own experience a lot of people were frustrated with the massive jump from Karazhan/Gruul/lurker/VR to the rest of SSC, TK and Mag. The jump was very steep and difficult. Then 2.3 was released with ZA and new badge loot in November 2007and guess what, the activity chart starts to rise at least partly due to the changes in 2.3 which made raiding more accessible to everyone without actually trivialising the content. So much for WoW's current raiding content being waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay too hard. 2.4 further improved raiding by dropping attunements and further badge loot.
Though even the most delusional fanbois will have trouble denying that AoC will take a sizeable chunk of wow players.
Nope didn't miss anything, many people have multiple accounts, not only multiple characters
And most people who have mulitple accounts multi-box so whats your point?
I think prime time playing largely reflects raiding by players since the only time people raid is during their prime time. Not to say that people don't do arenas, obviously BG/Arenas are very very popular but they can be done anytime. Since you need more people for raiding you need to do it at a time that most people have available.
If active prime time activity is what is shown in that graph then it is very interesting. About August/sept last year there was a lot of (good)complaints that raiding in WoW was too time consuming and elitist. I knew a lot of people who turned their attention towards Arenas and gave up on raiding. In my own experience a lot of people were frustrated with the massive jump from Karazhan/Gruul/lurker/VR to the rest of SSC, TK and Mag. The jump was very steep and difficult. Then 2.3 was released with ZA and new badge loot in November 2007and guess what, the activity chart starts to rise at least partly due to the changes in 2.3 which made raiding more accessible to everyone without actually trivialising the content. So much for WoW's current raiding content being waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay too hard. 2.4 further improved raiding by dropping attunements and further badge loot.
Though even the most delusional fanbois will have trouble denying that AoC will take a sizeable chunk of wow players.
Seriously guys can anyone produce reliable unbiased statistics to diss WoW?
-- Note: PlayNC will refuse to allow you access to your account if you forget your password and can't provide a scanned image of the product key for the first product you purchased..... LOL
The real issue with the calculation of subs is the fact that so many people have 4 and or 5 accounts..this is infact only 1 player! and then there are still many farmers with tons of accounts on 1 ip! and that sort of thing farmers do not link accounts and as such get counted as single subs. Just my 2 cents for all its worth, but it does tend to lead them to look a little shady in the numbers dept. Retrad great link!
Again unless you're going to present a balanced argument then don't expect to be taken seriously.
Every game on the market has gold sellers, unless you can give me statistics then I'm not really swayed here. Plus, gold sellers are regularly removed from the game when they're traced so it's not like the increase in subscribers is a gold seller epidemic.
If a player choses to have multiple accounts then that is up to him. WoW offers little incentive to do so, the vast majority of the levelling content is soloable whilst other games (EQ2, EVE) offer great incentives to duo from the same PC.
As I said, back up your argument or dont expect to be taken seriously. Play WoW on a 'FULL server' for a day and you will realise that these statistics are not BS.
-- Note: PlayNC will refuse to allow you access to your account if you forget your password and can't provide a scanned image of the product key for the first product you purchased..... LOL
Blizzard/VU has nothing to lie about since, they are the mmorpg market's juggernaut and wouldn't gain anything from fraud. Why cheat, when you're already 5 laps ahead of the contestants?
Also 4 or 5 accounts? Yeah maybe one fellah who wanted to multibox. But guess what, those are so rare that you do be lucky to find 2 multibox players on the same server.
From the rather large guild i was in and to the folks i knew RL playing the game, hardly any were having more than 1 account, in fact i would say it's a large myth that "many" have more than one account, a minority have them but in the end it doesn't matter that's how the financial world counts it....
subscription numbers.... wouldn't matter if 1 weird fellah was paying fore 12 accounts, it would still count as 12 subs.
That's how it works, that's how it works EVERYWHERE in the business world. Other companies would kill fore just a fragment of WoW's subscriptions. Those companies are willing to go as far and lie to get it.... A company like Blizzard are not in a position to lose their name just to lie about something they don't even need to lie about.
That graph.... showed something, it showed that WoW is the king of the hill. Having so many players on the realms actively playing in this season is something amazing to say the least. I remember logging into EVE, where it would say "currently 18k people playing"(it has over 100k subs as far i remember). Compare that to over 1 million players actively playing "right now", when adding the Asian servers as well.
Comments
Why would anyone have 4 or 5 accounts? Two I could see if you really needed to play both Horde and Alliance on the same server.
Ico
Oh, cruel fate, to be thusly boned. Ask not for whom the bone bones. It bones for thee.
Why would anyone have 4 or 5 accounts? Two I could see if you really needed to play both Horde and Alliance on the same server.
Your guess is as good as mine...but most likly for farming I would think
Lol, subscription means the people who pay for the game. In a subscription (account) you can create a maximum of 10 character in every realm. Thus, I think you're missing the point. I have numerous toons in 5 realm, 10 in Shu'alo.
__________________
Playing: EVE & Runescape @ work : P
Nope didn't miss anything, many people have multiple accounts, not only multiple characters
That's the point though: farmers may have multiple accounts, but I'd be willing to wager the mass community does not. Blizzard negated the reason for multiple accounts by allowing users to create up to 50 characters (10 per realm).
Ico
Oh, cruel fate, to be thusly boned. Ask not for whom the bone bones. It bones for thee.
I have to agree. I'm missing the entire point of this post. Well, perhaps the reasoning more then the point. I see that you say your point is that WoW is past it's "golden age". Who cares? I suppose it validates your dislike of the game to state that the game does not have as many subs as they're claiming. Hmm, who knows for sure.
While I myself don't play WoW, I will say, they have a hell of a lot more subs that any other game on the market. As a matter of fact, I don't recall any mmo even coming within 5 million subs. I play eq2, and I think they are somewhere around 400K.
So I would have to disagree. whether they have 10 million subs or 8 million subs, they're still leading the pack by quite a margin. Based on the amount of subs, I would have to say that they are still within "golden age" terminology. Until they dip below 1 million, then I may change my mind on this.
I completly agree, and just saw the thread so i commented..the numbers thing is a bit funny..but yea not sure what the point in the thread was other then there is a little farming going on. But i think we all knew that
To be their own enchanters! Three times over!
EDIT: Whoops meant to quote this one -> "Why would anyone have 4 or 5 accounts? Two I could see if you really needed to play both Horde and Alliance on the same server."
Or you could just listen to the folks who actually have an accurate count of the numbers?
I don't know why anyone in their right mind would trust Warcraft realms stats or anyone else's for that matter over Blizzard's. It's their servers, it's their game, you can bet they know exactly how many subscribers they have. You can assume they are lieing if you want, but then why would you assume that Wacraft realms is telling the truth? If Blizzard was actually lieing and was caught, what exactly would happen? It would be front page news on every major newspaper, news program and internet site. They would instantly lose a huge amount of respect from the entire gaming industry. They have a ton to lose if they are caught lieing. Now, what would happen if Warcraft Realms were caught lieing. Nobody would even care. No one. It would be a non news event.
I'm not saying that Warcraft realms is lieing, I believe their numbers to be as accurate as they can get them, but that's the problem, they just are not accurate. It's a small sampling. Way too small to be considered accurate in the least. Even if the samplings increased to the point where 100% of the players used the tool, it still would not be accurate because all it does is monitor characters, not accounts. They have no way of knowing how many accounts and therefore they have no way of tieing those numbers directly to subscribers. It's apples to oranges. Only Blizzard knows what the numbers are. Believe them or not, it's up to you, but don't offer Warcraft Realms as proof it's inaccurate. That's a fairy tale.
Got news for you, a subscription is a subscription regardless of whether it's 1 person or 10. I used to work for a newspaper and subscriptions were important for determining things like revenue and such. You think we cared whether a person bought 1 newspaper or 3? That's still 3 subscriptions regardless. It's not shady in the least, it's how every single entity in the entire world counts subscriptions, by the number sold, not the number of people sold to.
This graph only shows US and EU servers.
Last I heard, WoW had a couple of servers in Asia ...
I can easily beleive that there is 10M players I have 2 Different Characters 1 Alliance 1 Horde on Different Servers and I play alot and whenever I am on the places are packed you never go more than 2 mins without seeing someone lol
And most people who have mulitple accounts multi-box so whats your point?
I think prime time playing largely reflects raiding by players since the only time people raid is during their prime time. Not to say that people don't do arenas, obviously BG/Arenas are very very popular but they can be done anytime. Since you need more people for raiding you need to do it at a time that most people have available.
If active prime time activity is what is shown in that graph then it is very interesting. About August/sept last year there was a lot of (good)complaints that raiding in WoW was too time consuming and elitist. I knew a lot of people who turned their attention towards Arenas and gave up on raiding. In my own experience a lot of people were frustrated with the massive jump from Karazhan/Gruul/lurker/VR to the rest of SSC, TK and Mag. The jump was very steep and difficult. Then 2.3 was released with ZA and new badge loot in November 2007and guess what, the activity chart starts to rise at least partly due to the changes in 2.3 which made raiding more accessible to everyone without actually trivialising the content. So much for WoW's current raiding content being waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay too hard. 2.4 further improved raiding by dropping attunements and further badge loot.
Though even the most delusional fanbois will have trouble denying that AoC will take a sizeable chunk of wow players.
And most people who have mulitple accounts multi-box so whats your point?
I think prime time playing largely reflects raiding by players since the only time people raid is during their prime time. Not to say that people don't do arenas, obviously BG/Arenas are very very popular but they can be done anytime. Since you need more people for raiding you need to do it at a time that most people have available.
If active prime time activity is what is shown in that graph then it is very interesting. About August/sept last year there was a lot of (good)complaints that raiding in WoW was too time consuming and elitist. I knew a lot of people who turned their attention towards Arenas and gave up on raiding. In my own experience a lot of people were frustrated with the massive jump from Karazhan/Gruul/lurker/VR to the rest of SSC, TK and Mag. The jump was very steep and difficult. Then 2.3 was released with ZA and new badge loot in November 2007and guess what, the activity chart starts to rise at least partly due to the changes in 2.3 which made raiding more accessible to everyone without actually trivialising the content. So much for WoW's current raiding content being waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay too hard. 2.4 further improved raiding by dropping attunements and further badge loot.
Though even the most delusional fanbois will have trouble denying that AoC will take a sizeable chunk of wow players.
I also have a chart on this http://img151.imageshack.us/my.php?image=profkv1.png .<~ prof
most mmos have 25-50k active players....
talk about biased statistics lol
Seriously guys can anyone produce reliable unbiased statistics to diss WoW?
--
Note: PlayNC will refuse to allow you access to your account if you forget your password and can't provide a scanned image of the product key for the first product you purchased..... LOL
http://mmogchart.com/Chart7.html
Every game on the market has gold sellers, unless you can give me statistics then I'm not really swayed here. Plus, gold sellers are regularly removed from the game when they're traced so it's not like the increase in subscribers is a gold seller epidemic.
If a player choses to have multiple accounts then that is up to him. WoW offers little incentive to do so, the vast majority of the levelling content is soloable whilst other games (EQ2, EVE) offer great incentives to duo from the same PC.
As I said, back up your argument or dont expect to be taken seriously. Play WoW on a 'FULL server' for a day and you will realise that these statistics are not BS.
--
Note: PlayNC will refuse to allow you access to your account if you forget your password and can't provide a scanned image of the product key for the first product you purchased..... LOL
Shareholder companies who lie, dies....
Blizzard/VU has nothing to lie about since, they are the mmorpg market's juggernaut and wouldn't gain anything from fraud. Why cheat, when you're already 5 laps ahead of the contestants?
Also 4 or 5 accounts? Yeah maybe one fellah who wanted to multibox. But guess what, those are so rare that you do be lucky to find 2 multibox players on the same server.
From the rather large guild i was in and to the folks i knew RL playing the game, hardly any were having more than 1 account, in fact i would say it's a large myth that "many" have more than one account, a minority have them but in the end it doesn't matter that's how the financial world counts it....
subscription numbers.... wouldn't matter if 1 weird fellah was paying fore 12 accounts, it would still count as 12 subs.
That's how it works, that's how it works EVERYWHERE in the business world. Other companies would kill fore just a fragment of WoW's subscriptions. Those companies are willing to go as far and lie to get it.... A company like Blizzard are not in a position to lose their name just to lie about something they don't even need to lie about.
That graph.... showed something, it showed that WoW is the king of the hill. Having so many players on the realms actively playing in this season is something amazing to say the least. I remember logging into EVE, where it would say "currently 18k people playing"(it has over 100k subs as far i remember). Compare that to over 1 million players actively playing "right now", when adding the Asian servers as well.
Take the Magic: The Gathering 'What Color Are You?' Quiz.
That counts every individual character logged in over the census. Not only accounts.