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Worrying information about pvp rules
Well i guess the biggest reason i'm writing this is for confirmation.
I read last night that the abyss will be completely free of a death penalty and xp-loss(as there will be on non-abyss grounds). To me this is extremely dissappointing, we already have an abundance of games taking the FFA no loss counterstrike'esque pvp-ruleset, and i was really hoping the koreans wouldn't dissappoint me on this one.
What do you guys and gals feel about this? is this positive or negative information to you?
Comments
Well, that depends...is the Abyss going to be an area I have to go to or is it someplace people choose to go to purely for FFA PvP (like a big pvp only arena)?
If it's someplace I will have to go to progress or get certain items, then yeah, this game goes out the window for me since having FFA rules pretty much guarantees a big, pointless gankfest. But if the only purpose of the area is to give those who enjoy FFA PvP some place to do it, that's fine with me.
Basically, I want to PvP when I want to PvP, not when someone else decides I should.
I'm not sure whether what pezit is saying is true or not, but you don't have to go the the abyss zone. It is mostly only for pvp, though they said that there would be areas with high lvl mobs.
But the developers have said that you can play the entire game outside of the abyss ignoring the pvp aspects and still have alot to do.
The abyss if pretty much THE endgame of this game, meaning the best items and the best leveling will be done there. I think you misunderstod me on one thing though. I like the fact that there is open PvP at the abyss, the thing i don't like is the fact that there is no death penalty(DP) in the abyss, meaning no risk in the PvP just endless "deathmatching" like you find in game such as WoW, AoC and probably warhammer. If there's a death penalty the PvP won't be as sporadic, ie you need to plan an attack if you don't want unnecessary deaths.
I do respect your opinion though, and i believe this game is probably not for you if you don't like PvP, since the endgame pretty much focuses on the faction war.
Edit: my source for information is aionsource.com
I think that the Abyss will be the hardcore area but adly outside the abyss will be carebear zones for free xp but no good items ect. i guess lvling will be faster in the abyss. To be honest i would prefer the other way round but the gae stil looks coo,l and since it is unlikey to be released till next year thing swill change, wait for the beta is my advice then decide from that, or what people say from that if u dont get in
I think the point the OP is trying to make is that PvP must have a risk vs reward concept, and I pretty much agree with him, and that's great in Aion, since the risk is getting kicked out of the abyss, and the reward is getting the profits from the best leveling/hunting/farming area in the game.
That being said, Ill try to go into detail (as much as I can as a random fan).
There isn't confirmation cause the Abyss hasn't been under testing yet, it will come in CBT3 (june/july) next to all the endgame content there is to test, however, I'll try to point my opinion from what I know (i've read almost everything there is to read about Aion, in english, that is).
a) There is the abyss points concept, which can be used to acquire certain gear, skills, bonuses and even hero status. Dying would mean an abyss points loss.*
b) Going back to the abyss isn't that simple, there are huge rewards that will sure make you want to go back, but then you'd have to reorganize your groups, which would take time guessint that the RvR concept works out properly (the winner will be waiting with the whole zerg supporting).
c) Raid bosses are going to be in partially seamless world a la L2, aka, races will compete for them, the loser gets no raid boss. (strongest raids are in the abyss).
d) There is a death debuff.
e) Fights in the abyss aren't just for regular mobs but for fortresses and strategic artifacts, you will want to farm there, but if you loose you might have a hard time doing so considering how the fortress owner controls the area until the devanion mist dissapears. (if you don't know what that mist is, look at my profile and track my last posts in this forum).
I can't recall anything else, but I'm sure these are good reasons to advoid death.
*I must say again im not 100% sure of these points, and since looking again hundreds of articles about Aion would take me years, I rather post this now waiting for someone to bring the facts if they can recall where they were.
Some of the things you're mentioning i've missed completely when reading, and i must say it sounds awesome if half of it is true
the only thing i'm pretty sure of is the fact that the death penalty will not be in effect in the abyss, i read it in some interview or something on aionsource.
Indeed, no xp loss or DP in Abyss (but in other areas there is, so pvp through Rifts will have them)
Since there is no deleveling, theres no point to have that in Abyss, coz that area is mostly for endgame (yeah, some parts of Abyss are available from lvl25, but still).
As Ephimero said, there are the Abyss points (check Jamien's translations about the Abyss (2 articles) - main source of all our Abyss infos).
All your endgame actions will be measured and you gain/lose ABP-s based on them.
Another thing to keep in mind (though some might not like it) is that this is meant to be a casual game.
Yes, that's right... casual game. Therefore it could fall in the design of the dev's that harsh death penalties might not lend itself to being "casual".
Mark my words, and I've said this and will continue to say it until after launch, we are going to hear a lot of complaints from more hardcore pvp'ers (or those who expect a hardcore game) that the game is not "up to snuff" as well as from people who don't ever want to have pvp and will complain that they are getting attacked when the gates opened up and they want nothing to do with pvp.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
Just a quick reminder, guys: the Abyss in Aion is RvR, not FFA PvP. That means you don't have to worry about your own faction killing you and you can probably run to get help if you're being chased. XP
ArcheAgeSource.com
Death Penalty? urghh... to be killed by a possibly overpowered class and have a invasion of frustation? no thanks, playing for fun actually.
I personally like it like this ALOT, it actually encourages ppl to pvp without having afraid to try it.
"Another thing to keep in mind (though some might not like it) is that this is meant to be a casual game."
Its NOT. Game is hc pvp(ve) with casual elements, so casual players can too enjoy the game and become hc-s.
Watch the Ken Choi Episodes for clarification, he clearly says its not a casual game.
+ the pve content is one of the toughest, hardest weve seen so far according to testers.
Aion is definitely not a casual game but has options to play it that way.
Casual or not, Death Penaly is a very stupid thing in a game, atleast PvP death penalty.
Death penalty on pvp is the only way to have pvp with a sense, to create drama, and politics. Otherwise it turns into a retarded FFA mayhem where everyone joins for the fun of participating, I prefer to join PvP for the fun of winning.
PvP with no risk is just meaningless. It doesn't make people think before they attack you. With no risk like WoW, any noob just comes and take a shot at you because you know what? It cost them nothing but a corpse run. Lets take this out of the other person's perspective and put it into yours. If you weren't sure that you were going to win the fight, and you lose something if you get killed, would you still mindlessly charge into the person you're thinking of ganking?
I totally agree.
Link please so I can watch them. Because leveling that's a bit harder than wow, no death penalty strikes me as casual.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
Well i actually agree a bit with you. However my fear resides in Ganking, you see, if you are ganked by a much powerful group of opponents (beware that ganking means being killed without any chance to win or retaliate) and get a death penaly.. For that i do not agree at all.
Now if we are talking about Mutual pvp like in the Abyss, i sure as hell agree with death penaly. (cause if someone is in the Abyss it's for pvp purpouses :P )
Well i actually agree a bit with you. However my fear resides in Ganking, you see, if you are ganked by a much powerful group of opponents (beware that ganking means being killed without any chance to win or retaliate) and get a death penaly.. For that i do not agree at all.
Now if we are talking about Mutual pvp like in the Abyss, i sure as hell agree with death penaly. (cause if someone is in the Abyss it's for pvp purpouses :P )
As far as we know, 99% of pvp will probably be in abyss, and that's a "mutual" understanding that at any time you'll get attacked. Element of surprise, I like it.
This is the video where ken choi talks about casual and hardcore gamers.
This is the video where ken choi talks about casual and hardcore gamers
And there won't be XP penalty in the abyss through PVP, the losses will be Abyss points, precious time trying to get back into the abyss
and the best XP spot in the game conquered by your enemy.
Through rifts, there seems to be PvP XP death penalty, but, after all, everytime a portal opens it's announced, so if you risk it it's because you want to gain. And going to kill your enemy or your enemy race's NPCs grant Abyss points and XP.
Well i actually agree a bit with you. However my fear resides in Ganking, you see, if you are ganked by a much powerful group of opponents (beware that ganking means being killed without any chance to win or retaliate) and get a death penaly.. For that i do not agree at all.
Now if we are talking about Mutual pvp like in the Abyss, i sure as hell agree with death penaly. (cause if someone is in the Abyss it's for pvp purpouses :P )
Can't have your cake and eat it too. There will always be someone more powerful than you that you have no chance of wining whether it's because they have better gear or are simply a better player.Also...that link doesn't work for the interview...you have another one?
While this may not apply to Aion directly, the problem is not with having PvP Death Penalties in these games that leads to people being A-holes and killing people on sight (most of the time in large groups where it just becomes a massacre as opposed to competitive PvP).
The problem is not having a penalty for killing in the first place in a FFA setting; if there's no penalty for being a jerk then all the jerks will strive to ruin the game for other people and entire guilds will form just to gank and camp lower level peoples with their buddies to back them up. Should these people suffer a death penalty because of these people who just want to ruin one's experience? I don't think so myself.
For example: In Age of Conan there have been incredibly large guilds formed on the RP-PVP realms with the sole purpose to travel around in large groups and ganking/camping (at the spawn points) role players and such. There's just no penalty to being a jerk.
Back in the Day when Ultima Online was still popular it had FULL Lootable bodies as a penalty for being killed.... But it was still an honorable setup for most instances where it was usually only one vs one (no levels in UO, either so typically even in character powers as well) mainly because there were huge penalties associated with killing innocent (or "Blue") players.
You will become a criminal and then a murderer and have restrictions imposed on you for each level.
As a criminal you could have town guards be called on you. In addition anyone could kill you without a murder count for them in addition to taking your head and all your gear at no cost to them since you're just the scum of society.
You had to be careful and not be a criminal lest you be targeted by all the blues for free gear.
The next level was being a Murderer or "Red" in which case you were banned from all NPC cities and had to rely on player crafts and players to get the items you needed.
Murderers, too, could be killed and hunted if they see your name was "red"; soon even Knights of Justice titles were made for those who killed multiple "reds" or murderers and it became a sport; vigilantes were formed just for that title where you are known for killing killers.
Murderer status wore off with time if you didn't killing anymore innocents, but it usually lasted a long time. The more you killed the more time you spent; some characters were even sent to permanent muderer limbo.
People thought twice about joining in groups to pick on people for fear of becoming a murderer and having all the restrictions in addition to being hunted themselves.
Though back in the day UO crafts provided anything they needed in addition to guild stores and other things so they didn't exactly need towns; they even had their houses to make up for a lack of bank access in normal towns.
The point of the matter is that only people who wanted to deal with being a murderer did it; they were in sense True PvPers as they typicall fought alone or in a small group of murderers who were targetted or ran from whenever they were seen.
They were truly notorious as opposed to high levels just ganking a low level and people just thinking them an ass as opposed to a baddass.
The point is, there should not be a PvP penalty if there is no killing penalty; it won't make people think twice about attacking. There is no strategy in getting a group of 20 or so people together just for safety in numbers and killing a lone player.
Though they will think twice if they are given a debuffed status that puts them at a disadvantage after their dark deeds; even the respect of their fellows if they proudly wear their "I'm a target" status showing their true aptitude and love for PvP.
Now that's competitive PvP that's well thought out and makes people think before they start murderering people randomly; in a game's society mass gankers should be considered murderers and attack by guards in cities and have criminal status imposed on them. It just makes their notoriety of surviving under those harsh conditions true to their nature while keeping the people who do it just for the sake of being jerks out as they think twice about the possible life path they're leading their characters down.
Being a no penalty murderer target in a system where their is full lootable bodies, titles for killing you, and bounties on the head they get from your corpse...
Now that's hardcore and true to the nature of in game mass murderers which an in game society, such as a gaming society does out of game, should mark as a criminal.
It also makes for a more intelligent or "street" smart player as they learn not to wear their most leet outfit to become a target even if they're blue status; someone might risk being a grey criminal just to get expensive armor.
Plus you won't see someone carrying all their gold, bandages, and potions on them at once either. They became survivalists and the most hardcore of all players - especially those who took the path of a murderer and learned how to survive off the land.