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  • therain93therain93 Member UncommonPosts: 2,039
    Originally posted by nikbot


     
    Originally posted by therain93


     
    Originally posted by nikbot

    Originally posted by Oriphus


     
    Once again..no one made you pay...the OB was free to all Fileplanet sub's and if you wanted to play it sooooooooo baaaaad then the option was there for you to sign up in order to get a chance....
    Whats wrong with all these spoilt brats.....^^
     
     

     The reasoning Oriphus, is that its not assumed that people have been a subscriber to Fileplanet for very long...they bought the sub in order to play the game.  While I completely understand your logic, people still have to realize that this is not a launch here.  It's beta, and its for Funcom to get ready.  This is upsetting because many people "paid" in a way to test Funcoms servers out.


    You know what happens when you "assume" don't you? 

     

    The truth is, you opted to subscribe to Fileplanet and, as a perk,  happened to pick up the key.  It doesn't matter what your motive was, you purchased a service and happened to be among the few who got this perk.  What happened to people who subscribed but didn't get a key?  Did they just pay for nothing?  No, they paid for fileplanet's service.

    If there are people who are getting upset about this situation, they shouldn't be in a beta test.

     

    I wasn't really talking about me.  I'm not upset at all, just providing a counterpoint.



    Fair enough -- my point, and it's been beaten to death already, is that people don't seem to really understand what they even paid for (not the beta, NOT THE BETA -- just an FP subscription.)

  • AndreiDAndreiD Member Posts: 7

    Originally posted by Skatty2007


     
    Originally posted by jonchicoine


     
    Originally posted by fischsemmel


     
    Originally posted by jonchicoine


     
    Originally posted by pixeldogmeat


    lame, they could have pushed these patches down in any of the last 7 days.

     

    Umm... OK, for that matter, why didn't they just include it in the first patch... or even better, release it last year! They're just delaying things as long as possible to piss us off....  very clever of them...

     

    The entire point in saying that something will be ready at X is having it ready at X. It doesn't matter if some issue comes up at the last minute. By having said it would be ready at X, the company should have taken steps to ensure that no issues were able to come up at the last minute. Call me old fashioned, I suppose.

     

    I would say that I'm only getting what I paid for, except that I actually did pay for this...

     

    As a software developer for 15+ years,... that's just not possible in software development, or anything in life actually :)... but especially for software...

    However, waiting till the very last second does surprise me.... it amazes me that MMORPG companies haven't figured out how much more forgiving their potential customer base would be if they would simply communicate more....

    At the very first hint that something might be wrong, if they had posted something communicating that there might be delay... people would be way more forgiving.

    From a PR standpoint... it would of been better to bring the servers up for 3 hours, and then do the patch.

    I'm sure most of funcom was up all night, and many haven't slept in days.... Can you imagine, 5 years of work finally being released, with hopes it COULD make you the next blizzard?

    As a developer who's worked on projects for a about 1.5 years.... there's always some last minute things that pop up, when you could swear you've tested all that 10 times before.... software is strange like that.

    Here's to hoping Funcom finds some success with AoC! Good luck!

    Now i guess i should write some code or something... or put in some bugs, so I can get a raise for finding and fixing bugs so fast.... shhhhhhh



    I completly agree.  Being in software for 11 years, the oddest things can crop up at the oddest times for no apparant reason.  The amount of work that goes into the apps that I am the tech lead over in my place of work is gargantuan.  I can't even imagine the amount of work that goes into an app on a scale such as this.  I don't think I even want to know.

     

    One common complaint in IT is that the users just never have a good grasp on the amount of effort, talent, and blood that goes into applications.  I think we can cut them a break for a 5 hour delay.  Its not like anyone of us are perfect or anything.  Plus without the same guys that are creating delays, we'd never have an Age of Conan game to play  in the first place.

    Take the good with the bad everyone...


    Yeah people who haven't written a line of code in their life have no way to even imagine how it's like.

    I'm currently on a project for about one year and I really can't remember exactly where I started, but now the app is at it's 10th version or so.

    About a month ago I looked at the monitor for about 3-4 hours trying to figure out where did that bug came until I figured it out. And this is a simple application that has at most 20MB.  Scale this to about 1GB of code libraries (I figure that's about right). Just so you can understand about 10000 lines of code when compiled make a file of just about 1MB (correct me if i'm wrong). If i'm right and funcom has about 1GB of code then putting together all the files this would result to more then 10 milion lines of code.

    The people who make theese games have all my respect nowadays theese are the biggest projects you can find and there is so much that needs to be combined, pretty much everything there is about softwere development goes into theese games.

    Veni, Vidi, Vinci

  • KcissemKcissem Member Posts: 276
    Originally posted by pixeldogmeat


    lame, they could have pushed these patches down in any of the last 7 days.

    ever think of the fact they didn't finish the patch till say today, or they didn't run into the issues that needed fixing till say a day or two ago.   Just because a mmo goes gold and open betas are announced does not mean that development stops.

  • therain93therain93 Member UncommonPosts: 2,039
    Originally posted by BigMango


     
    Originally posted by therain93


     
     
    The truth is, you opted to subscribe to Fileplanet and, as a perk,  happened to pick up the key.  It doesn't matter what your motive was, you purchased a service and happened to be among the few who got this perk.  What happened to people who subscribed but didn't get a key?  Did they just pay for nothing?  No, they paid for fileplanet's service.
    If there are people who are getting upset about this situation, they shouldn't be in a beta test.

     

    What a flawed mind. You can spin it how you want, it won't change what it is.

    You sound like one of those undercover FC reps posting on these forums. This is what they call viral marketing, isn't it?

    Flawed?  Spin?  Undercover rep?  If that makes you feel better, you can delude yourself but the only thing that is true is what you quoted. ( ' :

  • therain93therain93 Member UncommonPosts: 2,039
    Originally posted by AndreiD


     
    Originally posted by Skatty2007


     
    Originally posted by jonchicoine


     
    Originally posted by fischsemmel


     
    Originally posted by jonchicoine


     
    Originally posted by pixeldogmeat


    lame, they could have pushed these patches down in any of the last 7 days.

     

    Umm... OK, for that matter, why didn't they just include it in the first patch... or even better, release it last year! They're just delaying things as long as possible to piss us off....  very clever of them...

     

    The entire point in saying that something will be ready at X is having it ready at X. It doesn't matter if some issue comes up at the last minute. By having said it would be ready at X, the company should have taken steps to ensure that no issues were able to come up at the last minute. Call me old fashioned, I suppose.

     

    I would say that I'm only getting what I paid for, except that I actually did pay for this...

     

    As a software developer for 15+ years,... that's just not possible in software development, or anything in life actually :)... but especially for software...

    However, waiting till the very last second does surprise me.... it amazes me that MMORPG companies haven't figured out how much more forgiving their potential customer base would be if they would simply communicate more....

    At the very first hint that something might be wrong, if they had posted something communicating that there might be delay... people would be way more forgiving.

    From a PR standpoint... it would of been better to bring the servers up for 3 hours, and then do the patch.

    I'm sure most of funcom was up all night, and many haven't slept in days.... Can you imagine, 5 years of work finally being released, with hopes it COULD make you the next blizzard?

    As a developer who's worked on projects for a about 1.5 years.... there's always some last minute things that pop up, when you could swear you've tested all that 10 times before.... software is strange like that.

    Here's to hoping Funcom finds some success with AoC! Good luck!

    Now i guess i should write some code or something... or put in some bugs, so I can get a raise for finding and fixing bugs so fast.... shhhhhhh



    I completly agree.  Being in software for 11 years, the oddest things can crop up at the oddest times for no apparant reason.  The amount of work that goes into the apps that I am the tech lead over in my place of work is gargantuan.  I can't even imagine the amount of work that goes into an app on a scale such as this.  I don't think I even want to know.

     

    One common complaint in IT is that the users just never have a good grasp on the amount of effort, talent, and blood that goes into applications.  I think we can cut them a break for a 5 hour delay.  Its not like anyone of us are perfect or anything.  Plus without the same guys that are creating delays, we'd never have an Age of Conan game to play  in the first place.

    Take the good with the bad everyone...


    Yeah people who haven't written a line of code in their life have no way to even imagine how it's like.

     

    I'm currently on a project for about one year and I really can't remember exactly where I started, but now the app is at it's 10th version or so.

    About a month ago I looked at the monitor for about 3-4 hours trying to figure out where did that bug came until I figured it out. And this is a simple application that has at most 20MB.  Scale this to about 1GB of code libraries (I figure that's about right). Just so you can understand about 10000 lines of code when compiled make a file of just about 1MB (correct me if i'm wrong). If i'm right and funcom has about 1GB of code then putting together all the files this would result to more then 10 milion lines of code.

    The people who make theese games have all my respect nowadays theese are the biggest projects you can find and there is so much that needs to be combined, pretty much everything there is about softwere development goes into theese games.



    Nor do they seem to appreciate the concept of "builds" and version control.   They'd prefer FC push down 945 little patches as they're ready.  Perhaps that would make sense during after go-live but there certainly sn't any pressure to do that in beta.

  • fischsemmelfischsemmel Member UncommonPosts: 364

    Originally posted by therain93


    Fair enough -- my point was, and it's been beaten to death already, is that people don't seem to really understand what they even paid for (not the beta, NOT THE BETA -- just an FP subscription.)

    Technically, I paid for a fileplanet subscription, yes.

     

    But why did I pay for that fileplanet subscription? It wasn't so I could wait 15 minutes fewer the next time I feel like downloading something. It was so I could get into the so-called open beta.

    Effectively, I paid for an "open" beta; Funcom just felt like arranging for me to pay fileplanet instead of themselves.

  • BigMangoBigMango Member UncommonPosts: 1,821

    Originally posted by therain93

    Originally posted by BigMango


     
    Originally posted by therain93


     
     
    The truth is, you opted to subscribe to Fileplanet and, as a perk,  happened to pick up the key.  It doesn't matter what your motive was, you purchased a service and happened to be among the few who got this perk.  What happened to people who subscribed but didn't get a key?  Did they just pay for nothing?  No, they paid for fileplanet's service.
    If there are people who are getting upset about this situation, they shouldn't be in a beta test.

     

    What a flawed mind. You can spin it how you want, it won't change what it is.

    You sound like one of those undercover FC reps posting on these forums. This is what they call viral marketing, isn't it?

    Flawed?  Spin?  Undercover rep?  If that makes you feel better, you can delude yourself but the only thing that is true is what you quoted. ( ' :

    Haha, what I said 

  • therain93therain93 Member UncommonPosts: 2,039

    Originally posted by fischsemmel


     
    Originally posted by therain93


    Fair enough -- my point was, and it's been beaten to death already, is that people don't seem to really understand what they even paid for (not the beta, NOT THE BETA -- just an FP subscription.)

     

    Technically, I paid for a fileplanet subscription, yes.

     

    But why did I pay for that fileplanet subscription? It wasn't so I could wait 15 minutes fewer the next time I feel like downloading something. It was so I could get into the so-called open beta.

    Effectively, I paid for an "open" beta; Funcom just felt like arranging for me to pay fileplanet instead of themselves.

    Technically is all that matters. The "why" doesn't -- you effectively gambled and won your key.  Would you be complaining if you didn't get a key, since you claim that you "paid" for it?  You certainly wouldn't have any recourse to get a refund.

  • BigMangoBigMango Member UncommonPosts: 1,821

     

    Originally posted by fischsemmel


     
     
    Technically, I paid for a fileplanet subscription, yes.
     
    But why did I pay for that fileplanet subscription? It wasn't so I could wait 15 minutes fewer the next time I feel like downloading something. It was so I could get into the so-called open beta.
    Effectively, I paid for an "open" beta; Funcom just felt like arranging for me to pay fileplanet instead of themselves.

     

    Be careful, fanbois are going to argue that you are "here for a free ride".

    What is so sad is that with all these fanbois paid beta is going to be the next new standard. People are happy with it, so there's no reason not to do it.

    But Funcom does it even better, they put a lottery up so there's more money to cash in per key.

  • therain93therain93 Member UncommonPosts: 2,039

    Originally posted by BigMango


     
    Originally posted by fischsemmel


     
     
    Technically, I paid for a fileplanet subscription, yes.
     
    But why did I pay for that fileplanet subscription? It wasn't so I could wait 15 minutes fewer the next time I feel like downloading something. It was so I could get into the so-called open beta.
    Effectively, I paid for an "open" beta; Funcom just felt like arranging for me to pay fileplanet instead of themselves.

     

    Be careful, fanbois are going to argue that you are "here for a free ride".

    What is so sad is that with all these fanbois paid beta is going to be the next new standard.

     


    Did the long time FilePlanet subscriber pay for his beta key too?  No.....
  • nikbotnikbot Member Posts: 44

    All FP subscribers that wanted a key got one, in fact, anyone that subscribes will get one.  They only lottery'd the keys in an effort to limit the amounts of bandwidth downloading the clients.

  • BigMangoBigMango Member UncommonPosts: 1,821

     

    Originally posted by therain93


     


    Did the long time FilePlanet subscriber pay for his beta key too?  No.....
     

     

    We are not talking about the "long term FP subscriber". There are thousands of people who paid just for this.

     

  • BigMangoBigMango Member UncommonPosts: 1,821

    Originally posted by nikbot


    All FP subscribers that wanted a key got one, in fact, anyone that subscribes will get one.

    Where did you get this info ?

     

  • nikbotnikbot Member Posts: 44

    http://www.fileplanet.com/

     

    Go to the site.  The beta keys are still being handed out for those that subscribe.

  • BigMangoBigMango Member UncommonPosts: 1,821

    Originally posted by nikbot


    http://www.fileplanet.com/
     
    Go to the site.  The beta keys are still being handed out for those that subscribe.

    Hmmm... so it seems they weren't yet able to issue all of the 50k keys?

    Anyway, just went there and on the subscription page it says "Subscribing does not guarantee participation."

  • tatertot123tatertot123 Member Posts: 1

    $5 plus a month billed quarterly, they can keep their damn beta key

  • therain93therain93 Member UncommonPosts: 2,039

    Originally posted by BigMango


     
    Originally posted by therain93


     


    Did the long time FilePlanet subscriber pay for his beta key too?  No.....
     

     

    We are not talking about the "long term FP subscriber". There are thousands of people who paid just for this.

     


    But, both groups are subscribers to the file planet service.   How can you argue people are paying for a key because they bought a 2 week subscription just recently when the long time subscriber, who never knew he could get a key yet values the entire service, gets it as a perk.  You simply cannot.  You bought a subscription and if you don't choose to use the serivce, that's up to you. 

     

  • therain93therain93 Member UncommonPosts: 2,039
    Originally posted by tatertot123


    $5 plus a month billed quarterly, they can keep their damn beta key



    A discriminating consumer!  I knew there was more than one out there!

  • AndreiDAndreiD Member Posts: 7

    Originally posted by fischsemmel


     
    Originally posted by therain93


    Fair enough -- my point was, and it's been beaten to death already, is that people don't seem to really understand what they even paid for (not the beta, NOT THE BETA -- just an FP subscription.)

     

    Technically, I paid for a fileplanet subscription, yes.

     

    But why did I pay for that fileplanet subscription? It wasn't so I could wait 15 minutes fewer the next time I feel like downloading something. It was so I could get into the so-called open beta.

    Effectively, I paid for an "open" beta; Funcom just felt like arranging for me to pay fileplanet instead of themselves.

    Ok seems like more math is required.

    12.59GB * 50000 = (you make the math) - That's the amount of data that Fileplanet needed to upload in just one week.

    Do you think anyone can upload that much data the way fileplanet did? What was your average download speed? Mine was 500KB and I got my key the second day and I'm from europe and downloaded from US. I can't agree more with Funcom for their decesion. Sure later down the road they will host the client themselves but there won't be thousands of people downloading at the same time. It's not necessary for them to have a dedicated server for that, with god knows how many internet lines with load balancing, just so u can have the bandwidth to upload to 1000 different people at decent speed. I bet it Funcom payed more the 1 milion dollars to Fileplanet just to host the client for us to be able to download and enjoy the game. I know how much the company i work for pays for internet acces yearly and it seems about right to me.

    If i'm right Funcom made a huge investment for us to be able to enjoy the game early(and help them beta test) and you are complaining you paid 15 USD that didn't even go into their pocket? Get some sense of perspective.

    Probably Funcom made a deal with Fileplanet to make the whole thing cheaper for them if they were to make it for Fileplanet subscribers only. This way Fileplanet gets some more subscribers and get some of the money back. Good for them.

    Veni, Vidi, Vinci

  • Blaze007Blaze007 Member Posts: 188
    Originally posted by Coman

    ...

     
     
    Gold and beta are two differand things. This beta test is to test the server side of thing with as I stated before has nothing to do with the code of the game. As it is an differand type of infrastructer.

    Sure they are different things: they are two different stages in game’s development process (as whole, not one’s or few aspects as you would like): beta means it is not completed, gold means it is ready to manufacture.  Every game is being patched after released – does it means games do not leave beta stage? Improvement can always be made but it is the producer/developer who decides if the game is finished or not. And Funcom decided it by declaring it is gold:  dvds are being burned already.  

    If anyone has any doubts - it is all about money: I do not know if they will have their cut from Fileplanet, but they already saved millions on advertising. Every computer game related website in the world has some info about “open beta”. For free because it is about “open beta” (later on we will see beta preview or reviews).

    And tbh I do not mind, as long as they deliver decent product. Just dont make up any nobel intentions to this.

  • BigMangoBigMango Member UncommonPosts: 1,821

    Originally posted by AndreiD


     
    Ok seems like more math is required.
     
    12.59GB * 50000 = (you make the math) - That's the amount of data that Fileplanet needed to upload in just one week.
    Do you think anyone can upload that much data the way fileplanet did?

    That's just part of the marketing cash cow spin.

    1. torrent is faster than FP and free.

    2. Funcom say they are ready for 600k subscribers. But 50k are a problem for them already...

     

  • ladyattisladyattis Member Posts: 1,273

    I had a sneaky suspicion they were doing some last minute patching because I ran their patcher this morning (CDT 6:30) and found I had to patch up three more times, mostly minor stuff compared to the major patching I had to do after install the night before. I'm glad they're keeping the client current. It'll help me judge whether or not I want to buy this title. :)

    -- Brede

  • Skatty2007Skatty2007 Member Posts: 231

    From my own limited persepctive, it seems that there are too many people who are "biting the hand that feeds them" so to speak.  People wanted a way to get into the beta and complained none was available.  Funcom answered and gave them a chance to get in.  Then people complained about the way this chance was provided to them.

    So I suggest this:  If you are getting all worked up about either 1) not getting into a beta or 2) having to pay a few bucks to get into the beta, I suggest that you may want to re-think your priorities in life. 

    This doesn't affect anything on your quality of life, does not affect your health or your families health.  It does not affect your job status at work, does not affect putting food on the table and paying your mortgage and/or rent.  Nor does not affect your credit rating, or insurability risk, or marriage and/or relationship.  It doesn't cause you or significant other to have an unplanned pregnancy.

    In 1 months time, no one is going to give 2 flying fudgecakes about this cause everyone who wants to play AoC, will be playing AoC.  Is it really worth getting your panties in a bundle over this?  Is it really worth sitting around getting all uptight about?  Or is the real anger coming from somewhere else and people are transferring?  Cheetos are all gone?  Can't find a girlfiend and/or boyfriend?  Unable to move out of parent's house?  Too many drugs and/or not enough drugs?

    Lets quit being whiny babies and just take it as it is.

    /me ducks

    I'm not creative enough to have a signature

  • talismen351talismen351 Member Posts: 1,124

    I gotta say I am not too impressed with this one. I am an AoC fan n support it, and also a long time FP subscriber (so beta wasn't my reason for signing on).  But either way in any busness, if you state a certain time...then that is the time that you should deliver.  Reguardless of beta or whatever...FC has known for a while now that they were having a beta...Come later on n they slap us in the face again with 'we are experiencing delays will hafta wait another 24 hrs' then what? No big deal to me really...but it does begin to make alot of ppl wonder about their product. After all...if they cannot launch a smooth beta after all this time...how much confidence is there for a smooth opening day?

    image

  • BigMangoBigMango Member UncommonPosts: 1,821

    Originally posted by Skatty2007


    From my own limited persepctive, it seems that there are too many people who are "biting the hand that feeds them" so to speak.  People wanted a way to get into the beta and complained none was available.  Funcom answered and gave them a chance to get in.  Then people complained about the way this chance was provided to them.


    No, what you don't seem to get here is that we are witnessing the beginning of the next standard: paid beta. This is what will happen if we don't raise our voices. If everyone is happy with this there is no reason not to do it.

    And thanks to all of the fanbois this is what will happen.

     

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