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Twisting The Knife
Jimmy_Scythe
Member CommonPosts: 3,586
So just found out the bad news about Age of Conan.
For those of you that don't know, AoC is going to be all about the raiding and raid gear. To get the best gear in the game, you're going to have to raid. You can't start raiding until you hit level 80, but since you'll be playing offline till level 60 that may not seem so bad. To make it sting just a little bit less, the raids will only be 24 players max.
PvP? Yeah, it's hardcore... If you call losing XP every time you get killed "hardcore." It's even possible for your progress to be lowered to zero for your level if you get killed too much. Did I mention that you only get between 1/2 to 1/3 of the XP for a killed in relation to how much you lost from death? And just to make sure that you're really hurting, the gear you get from PvP still won't be as good as what you get from raiding.
Why do developers pull this shit? We all hate grind. We've all been very vocal about hating grind. We've voted with our dollars by buying WoW and Guild Wars by the truckload because they confined grinding to the end game. Is this really so hard to figure out?
Vangaurd tried twisting the knife too and look what happened. A game that could have been a haven for old schoolers got sunk by bugs, which the olde skoolers wouldn't put up with, and apathy from casuals that wanted no part of the massive treadmill.
I was kind of hoping that AoC would bring something interesting to the table in regards to combat and PvP. As it stands, AoC is a one trick pony that's relying entirely on the novelty of it's combat system and IP to attract gamer interest. It will, but titties and semi-real-time combat are probably not going to hold that interest.
Comments
I tried to tell you guys a while back this game wasn't going to be what everyone thought it was going to be....
Its gonna be pretty linear also.
www.massively.com/2008/04/28/age-of-conans-raiding-treadmill/
No required quests! And if I decide I want to be an assassin-cartographer-dancer-pastry chef who lives only to stalk and kill interior decorators, then that's who I want to be, even if it takes me four years to max all the skills and everyone else thinks I'm freaking nuts. -Madimorga-
I knew AoC was a raiding game for quite some time(a little over a year, got flammed for mentioning and further flammed when I said the logic+video). basically since one of those event thingies where we got all the fancy videos, the developers fricking bragged about how much time a raid was going to take and on camera.
when you talk about it on camara for a short 8 minute interview to show off your game and get free hype you're going to show a very broad aspect of your game.
I find it amazing that by 2020 first world countries will be competing to get immigrants.
Ditto.
Since raiding does not totally turn me off, I'm not going to throw this game overboard on this news. My expectations are not all that high for AoC to begin with, so I don't expect to get too disappointed no matter how it plays. This one bit of news is not a Conan killer for me, but if it's the same old same old, I certainly won't be playing it for very long.
AOC innovates combat ( or at least we shall see)
But it does apsolutely everything else just as bad (if not worse) than its older brothers.
Whats the point?
We all know we all will play it even if we dont like it : ( AoC is the only new MMO out there right now that will be released in a near future.
What fits in this 'everything else' category that was horridly butchered in AoC?
Character progression?
PvP?
Community interaction perhaps?
The only part of AoC I don't like is the raiding and the oppourtunity it gives the developers to implement an itemized nerf-fest when the game matures, but until then, por que?
The ultimate solution to every problem: more space marines.
Don't talk for others. I like grinding and raiding.
This thread is a bit off topic. I should be probably moved to the AoC forums.
"You can't start raiding until 80" - UNKNOWN. But overall it doesn't matter. It won't hurt the game if no raid dungeons were present at release and they will be. I don't think I raided (as in more than one group) in any other game before the end level. I don't see why it's a critical issue for AoC.
"You're playing offline until 60" - FALSE. You never play offline. The single player part is 5 levels and even then you're connected to the servers.
"It's even possible for your progress to be lowered to zero for your level if you get killed too much" - FALSE. You never lose exp and your exp progress is never lowered as far as the 1-80 leveling goes. You do gain and lose PvP level exp, but the results and effects on your character is as of yet unknown.
"the gear you get from PvP still won't be as good as what you get from raiding" - FALSE. Unless they blatantly lied, the crafted gear will always be better for PvP than the raid gear. The raid gear will help with the PvE encounters.
"Grind" - I assume you're talking about level progress. That's something different depending on who you ask. Some want instant max level, some want snail speed progression. Since it's currently being tweaked from very fast to moderately fast, we'll see how it'll be in retail.
"Old schoolers" - Sorry but old schoolers can keep a forum fire going, but not a game. MMOs live or die depending on how they treat their casual base. The rest is just a minority with a high pitch voice.
There is a crowd out there that is looking for something new. There are plenty of games coming out, if not this year, then surely the next. Since this game won't be good for everyone (finally something that doesn't try to cater to everyone), the more choices us gamers have, the best chance we'll have finding something we like. The world will not stop spinning if AoC is not our cup of tea.
Considering the most popular mmo of all time is a raid grind game then AoC should be pretty popular.
X-actly
It will be as instanced as GW , as grindy as EQ2, crafting will be simple
But at least its something new and shiny - and MMO land is as dry as it ever was
The only thing that bothers me about the whole thing is this comment:
"The whole point of the system is for only the most skilled players to rise to the top, instead of having everyone who put in enough time eventually get to the highest PvP level. Once you do get high enough, special equipment unlocks and becomes available for purchase, and the gear is supposed to be extremely powerful. It’ll be comparable to raid gear, though its statistical bonuses will benefit PvP play more than PvE."
This means that only the best PvP players will have access to the special equipment. However, if they're the best players and they get the best equipment, this is going to make them pretty much unstoppable when they start attacking the rest of the players. With the XP loss on top of that for losing in PvP, it'll mean that these 'best equipped best players' will be able to stop everyone else from advancing.
Are they trying to make a single 'Conan' that outshines the rest in combat?
Ok, lets take a proper look at this blog.
Lets also be aware that it just represents 2 friends opinion, and not the gaming universes. Just because it is published on the interweb it dosent become fact.
I’m really disappointed with this bit of information. IGN posted up an exclusive look at AoC’s PvP and Raiding yesterday. In the article they talk about Raiding and PvP in the “end-game” or rather max level. The first waves of disappointment came when I read this:
*sigh* So basically it’s another treadmill of raid to get gear to raid to get better gear to raid to get gear.
Yes, but only if you choose to.
It's not complicated.
I thought we left that crap behind in World of Warcraft? I’m tired of having to spend hours every night raiding dungeons for a chance at loot.
Then don't.
I’m tired of being forced to find 23 other players to even have a chance at getting good items or seeing epic encounters.
Even a semi decent guild should be able to get 24 people together to casual raid if they want to... Not much of a guild if they can't tbh.
Find one that matches your play style, there will be scores of them, and go at your own speed.
It gets worse. You would think that perhaps maybe PvPing would be an alternative. Well it is, but not only does it sound incredibly difficult
Your scared of difficult? Says a lot about where we are when gamers get put off a game because they might find it 'difficult'. WoW has ruined so many.
but the gear that you can get from PvP isn’t even better
Wait... why should it be 'better'??
than the PvE gear and only the best PvPers are every going to see it.
So the best get rewarded for being the best? Sounds great to me.
Here is how hardcore their system sounds:
So finding 23 other people to successfully raid is going to be easier than obtaining the PvP gear?
Maybe, but at this time this is pure speculation and not worth gettin your panties in a twist about until we know more.
Again, why are you so scared of 'difficult'?
I am glad Funcom are celebrating skill, it's about time someone did after WoW's celebration of mediocrity.
It looks to me people will do both at the highest end of the game... raid for their PvE gear and PvP for their PvP gear. Or do one or the other as they see fit.
Choice and variety are good things.
I don’t need a full time job here.
Then don't play it as one....
I need a fun game.
Well, seeing as 'fun' is subjective, I won't even debate this.
a lot of people will find this ruleset a heck of a lot of fun, including me.
I’m getting very discouraged already that Age of Conan is taking 10 steps back after they took 1 step forward with their interesting combat mechanics.
How is this even true? Really?
I can’t sacrifice what little life I have to this game in order to have comparable loot.
Ahh, your the kind of guy that sees choosing to playi an enjoyable game a 'sacrifice'?
Maybe MMORPGs are simply not for you?
So much emphasis is being placed on gear in Age of Conan that the only logical conclusion to be drawn is that gear will dictate strength. If I can’t put in the time it takes to raid or PvP hardcore 24/7 then I will not stand a chance against someone who does. No thanks.
What are you suggesting here? That everyone has the same gear or that it should not be stated? That it should be different in appearence only? What in the information Funcom have release ever suggested AoC would be going down this route? Why the late shock now?
At L80, raid, craft, and PvP gear will be equal. this has been stated openly. All you have to do is earn it in the way that you persoanlly want to. If you don't want to, then thats fine as well. Thats your choice.
Maybe FPS games would be more suited to you?
I have been there and done that too many times.
Sounds like you are just a burnout to me. Classic overreactions to false false assumptions.
Does this form of play interest ANYONE out there (aside from you millions still running on WoW’s treadmill)? It doesn’t interest me at all. I really had no idea that AoC was going to mimic WoW’s shoddy design.
Lol puts ANYONE in caps, then says aside from millions of others...
Just goes to show you don't need qualifications to write a blog.
Graev is sitting across the room shaking his head right now saying: “The thought of having to raid and accrue DKP or participate in raids over and over isn’t appealing. I don’t want to feel like I’m forced to attend every raid just so that I can finally have the DKP or points to cash in down the road.
You arnt forced to do anything you dont choose to do.
If you enjoy PvP, then just PvP. By the time you get to L80, assuming you are actually any good at it, you will have unlocked the PvP gear.
Why should there be an automatic right to having the best PvP gear? It is there to be won by those with the skill.
If you feel like you have to have the 'best' PvE gear, then thats your your choice and, tbh, your compulsion to worry about and not mine.
I wouldn’t mind going on a raid every now and then but I don’t want to be forced into attending every single raid to compete.
Then find a guild that plays like that... whats the confusion here?
I will once again have to wait until every other person gets their item or whatever until I can finally get something. That just sucks. I don’t want to have to modify my play style to be a hardcore raider. I didn’t think this game was about raiding. That’s not fun to me.”
It isnt about raiding unless you make it about raiding.
We have decided to still get the game. -BUT- we will not be participating as “hardcore raiders”. We’re going to go as long as we can without buying into that horrible excuse for gameplay. If we can raid a couple nights a week in short raids and get some gear great. But once we have to modify our playstyle we’re going to quit.
Sounds good to me.
What could be expected really? I don't think we will see much of a change in the trend of farming oriented MMOs until a new hit that's equal or close to WoW in popularity features a sandbox playstyle. The creators want to be sure that what they do will give them back lots of money, and therefore they prefer to beat the dead horse rather than trying to find a new one to ride down the road of victory.
AoC: raiding game
WAR: PVP game.
That's not really gonna have a punch on LOTRO's population and popularity at all - more likely, it'll draw even more people to a casual-friendly, relaxed PVE game
DB
Denial makes one look a lot dumber than he/she actually is.
AoC's PvP still has owned land in it. We'll see some very large guilds fighting it out over and over, that might be worth seeing even if you completely ignore your PvE character.
I find it amazing that by 2020 first world countries will be competing to get immigrants.
I'm not really into the raiding thing. I like pick up groups till max level, and PvP. So, this probably isn't my kind of game. I've seen the combat trailers, and I prefer DAoC / EQ style combat. Looks like to much clicking to me, but of course that's just a preference.
The graphics look nice, so just the exploration aspect might be fun while you level, but what really concerns me is the recommended system specs.
Core 2 Duo 6600, OR BETTER? Whoa.
That's a pretty beefy computer. I don't really like to play games on less than the recommended specs, because you end up with an inferior experience, and usually frustrating problems running the game.
I'm due for an upgrade, but not sure AoC is good enough to motivate the expenditure at this point.
Thats a pretty carebear statement. Based on all this info if you go out and pay for this game and play it, then come back here and whine then I have no sympathy for you. Dude, WTF??
Don't be terrorized! You're more likely to die of a car accident, drowning, fire, or murder! More people die every year from prescription drugs than terrorism LOL!
I like "so called" grinding. I like a significant experience loss penalty when losing in combat because it keeps it real. But I hate raiding, so I won't be playing AoC. I already knew AoC was going to be raid centric though so I had no illusions about playing.
I happen to prefer open world grinding randomly to quests... I really hate quests.
I like to go with 2 or 3 people out randomly into a portion of the world and just kill anything that gets in our way... I think that's the fun part. Not being told where to go and what to kill...
- CaesarsGhost
Lead Gameplay and Gameworld Designer for a yet unnamed MMO Title.
"When people tell me designing a game is easy, I try to get them to design a board game. Most people don't last 5 minutes, the rest rarely last more then a day. The final few realize it's neither fun nor easy."
I agree completely. I really don't care about some stupid NPC telling me he lost is staff in the so and so forest and would I go find it, or if I bring back 10 batwings I'll get rewarded with the boots of crappiness, etc.
I don't mind the occaisional quest, but for the most part I'd rather just get a group and go find an area where we can barely stay alive, and kill mobs and get loot drops and make xp.
I'm not sure about AoC, but I know with WAR, you get rewarded if you do the quest unintentionally, and then talk to the NPC later. For example the quest is kill 10X, and you dont' know about the quest but you kill 10X anyway, then you run into the quest giver. He says, I see you've killed 10X, thanks, here's your reward. That way you can run around killing things, and not worry that you need to talk to the right NPC's first so you don't miss out on rewards and XP.
A lot of misconceptions in the original post. The "offline" game play ends around level 20 or so. Before level 20 there are some online elements.
Raiding will offer better gear than crafted gear but crafted gear has sockets for gems that will add stats to it effectively bring it on par with raid gear.
Raid gear =/= God mode in PvP as PvP uses separate stats than PvE. Same for PvP. PvP gear will not be God mode in PvE.
Gear does not play as big of a role in this game as it does in other games. Feats actually effect your stats more than gear. Gear provides a slight boost and a skilled naked player will be able to hold his own against someone who is decked out in top of the line gear.
As for PvP experience, I agree it's a bit harsh as it was in the PvP weekend. However, it's not too hard to stay alive if you know how to play the game. After an hour or so my barbarian had 49:19 kill:death ratio. I played casually and tried different classes before I settled on the barbarian class, hense the low score. You just need to learn how to utilize your class and when to cut and run. If you're going to attempt to play this game like WoW, like Keen and Graev did, you're in for an unpleasant surprise. BTW, their PvP weekend videos are a laughing stock of the whole AoC community.
Edit: None of this stuff is NDA breaking material. All this info is freely available on the net in various interviews, dev journals and previews.
The above is 100% opinion and not fact. As it is not MY opinion, I will disregard it. Thanks for playing!
Give a man a fish and he will eat for a day. Give a fish a man and he will eat for a month!