please dont confuse wow esq gear progression with no gear at all. ALl games have gear..... WoW and EQ have gear as means of leveling up and not leveling up as means of leveling up. I assume you mean RP/Renown here at the max level? Which is points gotten for PvP-ing as a result of which you "level up"? So kind of like you get points these days in WoW PvP which you get the gear with that allows you to level up? Both systems allow you to PvP to level up. Just WoW's doesn't let you level up more skills due to PvP like Daoc used to.
having an END game based around gear and raiding dungeons means the casual gamer will not be able to keep up... thats wow and EQ
Warhammer online will have RVR and PVP as the end games. so once you get to the end game.... well... its the end game. this is casual friendly because EVERYONE will eventually come to the same end it dosent matter how many hours you sink into a week. you will have more fun and more gold and more kills but eventually everyone will catch up to the spot you are at right now. it's quite clear by now that Mythic's "RvR" = PvP + PvE so naming PvP besides that is redundant. They've clearly stated that there will be a gear gap in terms of power which will be gotten through doing different things. They also clearly stated that without overcoming that gap things like the King fight won't even be doable for you so the fact that you *can* join in at that point is meaningless. There is also the renown gap which also affects your capabilities and is a clear way of creating a gap between a newcomer/casual to a veteran just like it was in Daoc. "eventually everyone will catch up to the spot you are at right now" How is that different from a casual gamer in any game, including WoW? That's exactly what a casual gamer's flaw is, he spends less time than a veteran. If he did spend more time he'd catch up sooner, but he doesn't.
In DAoC it was "casual friendly" because the casual player could make the same armor that you got off raids and all gear had a stat cap. so even if you played 50 hours a week and raided all day long and slayed dragons to your heart bleed.... you still wouldnt have more than 250 str and no weapon would ever do more than 16.5 damage. This is conveniently forgetting the RR gap which was also there, I think the basic requirement eventually got up to RR5 till someone was considered "Done" with the most important skills?
casual friendly means I can come home at 6 and log on and play... not wait around for a raid or wait for computer controled dragons to spawn to fight.... I just log on, sharpen my axe, and walk in the direction of the burning city to have a good time for the night. I totally agree with this part. I just haven't seen you bring forth any proof that this is true in WAR so far.
In case everyone hasn't noticed, Pheace usually just plays 'devil's advocate', he isn't a fanboi or a troll.
I believe WAR is very casual friendly. I can't say what hasn't been made public, but the public quest system, the fact that the only raid in the game is the killing of the opposition's leader, dungeons are split into smaller parts (kinda like SM in WoW, I know don't compare to WoW..blah, blah, blah) that can be comopleted one at a time so you can do one part, then wait a week, do another part, etc..., and that dungeons only require regulare sized (ie: one group) to complete them.
That is the majority of what has been made public that should encourage casual players to keep an eye on this game (always read up, and if possible, try before you buy).
Cheers!
MMO Vet since AOL Neverwinter Nights circa 1992. My MMO beat up your MMO. =S
If you expect to hang with the players that can invest 18 hours a day into the game then no you won't be able to stay competitive.
If you can only play 2 hours a day then you will only get 2 hours a day worth of effort in your toon.
All games are casual friendly, you progress as much as you can in those few hours, but anyone with more time to invest will always be further ahead than you, always.
You say you own your own job, if you don't invest time in your job, then it goes no where, where as someone who does invest time in their job goes places. (well that's the philosophy, until you get to the bosses buddies and the office slut,,, but we're not gonna go there).
So yeah, all games are casual friendly, but if you expect to be able to get all the leet crap the same as someone who can play 10 times more than you're sadly mistaken.
In case everyone hasn't noticed, Pheace usually just plays 'devil's advocate', he isn't a fanboi or a troll. I believe WAR is very casual friendly. I can't say what hasn't been made public, but the public quest system, the fact that the only raid in the game is the killing of the opposition's leader, dungeons are split into smaller parts (kinda like SM in WoW, I know don't compare to WoW..blah, blah, blah) that can be comopleted one at a time so you can do one part, then wait a week, do another part, etc..., and that dungeons only require regulare sized (ie: one group) to complete them. That is the majority of what has been made public that should encourage casual players to keep an eye on this game (always read up, and if possible, try before you buy). Cheers!
Thank you, I realize my stance can annoy people sometimes but I'm used to it by now and I think that people who know me for it tend to be able to have good discussions with me ^^
As for the stuff mentioned here.
I'm not argueing that WAR will not have plenty to do for the casual gamer. I'm very convinced it will as Mythic has shown they realize there has to be.
I *am* however arguing against the idea that there won't be a (possibly sizeable)gap between casual players and "hardcore"(timewise) players and that there are points that support that view. (in my opinion at least, i may be misinterpreting but that's for other people to point out, unfortunately I'm not perfect )
If you expect to hang with the players that can invest 18 hours a day into the game then no you won't be able to stay competitive. If you can only play 2 hours a day then you will only get 2 hours a day worth of effort in your toon. All games are casual friendly, you progress as much as you can in those few hours, but anyone with more time to invest will always be further ahead than you, always.
You say you own your own job, if you don't invest time in your job, then it goes no where, where as someone who does invest time in their job goes places. (well that's the philosophy, until you get to the bosses buddies and the office slut,,, but we're not gonna go there).
So yeah, all games are casual friendly, but if you expect to be able to get all the leet crap the same as someone who can play 10 times more than you're sadly mistaken.
I agree that people who have more playtime in any game will progress faster than those who cannot, but I (and I hope others) look at whether or not you can still be efficient in a smaller period of time. What I mean is can you accomplish in 2 hours what the person who plays more can accomplish in 2 hours? In this game I would have to say according to what has been made public that you can. Yes you can say all games are casual friendly in a broad since, but most games have forced grouping to accomplish goals (here is where PQs shine, in that you can show up and participate without waiting to form a group) whereas this game does not until the end (according to what has been released). So you can log on, do your thing without waiting around for groups or others, and log off.
In the end, what is important is that you have fun. To some that is racing to the top and getting everything as fast as possible, to others its enjoying the ride to the top, others crafting, etc... In the end I believe this game offers it all to your soloers, guild oriented people, PvP'ers, groupers, even tiered progression peeps. The only people who I think may feel left out based on released information are your hard core raiders and hard core FFA loot people.
MMO Vet since AOL Neverwinter Nights circa 1992. My MMO beat up your MMO. =S
Yes of course the more a person plays a game the faster they will progress and the better they'll get compared to those who play less. But everything I've read about WAR indicates that it will be very friendly to the player that has only an hour or so to play each night. For most of the time that I've played MMOs I've been one of those players. I can tell you from my experience with other games that looking for a group eats a up good portion of your time. It looks like between the scenarios and PQs the limited time player will have a lot of options to get and get out while still having a significant experience in either PvP or PvE.
Lots of arguments in this thread. But I don't see any acutal quotes from the Devs. So how about this:
"In the current crop of games that there is a glass ceiling on what a casual player can experience. You can get in and enjoy and play a significant amount of what each game has to offer, but you’re never going to the top tier unless you dedicate a significant chunk of your life, and as a result you’re always going to feel a little disconnected from the game as a whole. We’re trying to pull back a little from that – we’re making sure that our RvR focussed MMO doesn’t integrate its hardcore play at the expense of casual players.So if you only have four hours to play each week, we want to make sure you aren’t having a substandard experience."
Now people can argue about whether Mythic will be able to pull this off or not, but this articles shows that the Devs realize it is a problem that should be addressed.
Originally posted by needalife214 Again to follow up on the guilds.. WAR is making guilds.. what they should be,not just a chat channel but a way of finding a group of people you know you work well with..
The guild interface,as far as i know, has a calender that the guild leader can set and change and a list of all guild events (set by the guild leader) with sign up sheets to predetermine who is going. (no more fighting over raid spots. as well as a constant feed of guild events (similar to the one in GW, i think would be the best example) WAR is making guilds (to use war like terms) More of organized private armies in the WAR effort. Guild systems bring a great pride in your guild. And as with DAoC, WAR is bring back online stats , per character and guild...
Some Call it Elitism I Call it Pride!
PS. He is a AoC fanboi
I do agree the guild system looks really nice. There's a lot of things in there that should have been for years in my opinion. it's a nice step forwards.
I'm not quite sure how a raid signup sheet will remove fighting over raid spots all of a sudden though unless you feel a first come first serve system is perfectly justified and everyone will abide by that ^^
PS. I assume the fanboi remark is not aimed at my as I have never given AoC anything beyond even a secondary look.
ok okm it may not end all fighting or raids and such but its gives each player an idea who is going and they are also allowing extra slots to be add for sign ups for replacements
Im sorry if i have wrongly stated you were a fan boi i recognize posters by there avatars or sigs so i think someone has the same avatar as you ...oh well i'm sorry
Originally posted by needalife214 Again to follow up on the guilds.. WAR is making guilds.. what they should be,not just a chat channel but a way of finding a group of people you know you work well with..
The guild interface,as far as i know, has a calender that the guild leader can set and change and a list of all guild events (set by the guild leader) with sign up sheets to predetermine who is going. (no more fighting over raid spots. as well as a constant feed of guild events (similar to the one in GW, i think would be the best example) WAR is making guilds (to use war like terms) More of organized private armies in the WAR effort. Guild systems bring a great pride in your guild. And as with DAoC, WAR is bring back online stats , per character and guild...
Some Call it Elitism I Call it Pride!
PS. He is a AoC fanboi
I do agree the guild system looks really nice. There's a lot of things in there that should have been for years in my opinion. it's a nice step forwards.
I'm not quite sure how a raid signup sheet will remove fighting over raid spots all of a sudden though unless you feel a first come first serve system is perfectly justified and everyone will abide by that ^^
PS. I assume the fanboi remark is not aimed at my as I have never given AoC anything beyond even a secondary look.
ok okm it may not end all fighting or raids and such but its gives each player an idea who is going and they are also allowing extra slots to be add for sign ups for replacements
Im sorry if i have wrongly stated you were a fan boi i recognize posters by there avatars or sigs so i think someone has the same avatar as you ...oh well i'm sorry
Lol, that's elvenangel Talk about cats and dogs there.
what? what'd I do? *gets all confused* I'm not a fanboi people just don't like having the truth rubbed in their face they get pissed off I have a laugh (sometimes i get pissed off depends on my mood) it does not how ever make me a fanboi. A fan boi trolls going my game is gonna be leet for the win. I merely support the game that has the most features that support the particular gamestyles that I like and I have a short fuse when it comes to ignorant posters & trolls. I have no problem with other games if I did..that'd make me a fanboi.
I may dislike games for ME to play but I"ve never once said this is a shitty game about a game i haven't played..well except for UO..thats another story though.
btw I am absolutely NOT a fan of AoC. To even be...*shivers* shoved into that catagory is a great personal offense considering my anti forced group / guild / raid stance.
Please Refer to Doom Cat with all conspiracies & evil corporation complaints. He'll give you the simple explination of..WE"RE ALL DOOMED!
Warhammer Online seems like it's aimed mostly at Warhammer fans and hardcore MMO players because there are a lot of interesting new mechanics in the game for them. However WAR, is also very solo-friendly. It have a huge PvE game that you can play through and have a great time with, that you can solo all the way through if you really want to. .. In many respects it's probably the most casual-friendly PVP game that's around.
On a sidenote I plan on playing around 3-5 hours pr. week.
Originally posted by needalife214 Again to follow up on the guilds.. WAR is making guilds.. what they should be,not just a chat channel but a way of finding a group of people you know you work well with..
The guild interface,as far as i know, has a calender that the guild leader can set and change and a list of all guild events (set by the guild leader) with sign up sheets to predetermine who is going. (no more fighting over raid spots. as well as a constant feed of guild events (similar to the one in GW, i think would be the best example) WAR is making guilds (to use war like terms) More of organized private armies in the WAR effort. Guild systems bring a great pride in your guild. And as with DAoC, WAR is bring back online stats , per character and guild...
Some Call it Elitism I Call it Pride!
PS. He is a AoC fanboi
I do agree the guild system looks really nice. There's a lot of things in there that should have been for years in my opinion. it's a nice step forwards.
I'm not quite sure how a raid signup sheet will remove fighting over raid spots all of a sudden though unless you feel a first come first serve system is perfectly justified and everyone will abide by that ^^
PS. I assume the fanboi remark is not aimed at my as I have never given AoC anything beyond even a secondary look.
ok okm it may not end all fighting or raids and such but its gives each player an idea who is going and they are also allowing extra slots to be add for sign ups for replacements
Im sorry if i have wrongly stated you were a fan boi i recognize posters by there avatars or sigs so i think someone has the same avatar as you ...oh well i'm sorry
Lol, that's elvenangel Talk about cats and dogs there.
woah woah woah i would never confuse a DOOM kitty with fully a destroyer of worlds...
As long as there is some form of diferentation between the casual and the hardcore player I'm happy but there has got to be an advantage to putting in more time. Someone who plays 2 hours a week shouldnt beable to have everything that the person who plays 40 hours a week has.
in short the answer is NO. Basically, If you plan on accomplishing anything within the game, it will require loads of hours of playing, leveling, pvping, etc. U have to ask yourself, whats more important: My schoolwork or playing WAR?
And poor little Oakthornn can't back up his claim.
How do we know to believe you? I don't see any facts.
There isn't a game out there that doesn't give greater rewards to those who put in more effort. That's the way it should be.
People who speak out of their arse often without combing through all the available data from developers should be ignored (he's what 1 out of dozens that say the opposite). This is not an uber leet raid focused game, everything is geared around realm..anything and everything you do matters. If you read anything about the mechanics of the game then you know they're trying to minimize the attitude that only hardcore players are worthy. Hardcore players are going to be the ones that 'own' the keep or 'lead the siege' but casuals will make up the armies and legions that keep the battle going.
Everything is made to be done fairly open wise...if a guild is sieging a keep casual players in the area can just wander right over and participate in the siege since its REALM based not 'group elite lemmings' based. If a city is being stormed the casuals can come in at any time and participate. There's very little 'group' based only things in the game.
Its good common sense there's no reason a casual shouldn't be able to participate and get rewarded. Everyone puts time into a game everyone should get rewards if it takes a hardcore 10 hours in 1 day to get something a casual player that works 2 to 3 hours should be able to get it in a couple of days. The crap raid focus of 'some games' made it impossible by making the 'raid' 5 to 8 hours worth of work in one shot. Its finally time Raids started to suffer a slow decline in importance...only what 10 to 20 percent of the gamer community even likes to raid.
Please Refer to Doom Cat with all conspiracies & evil corporation complaints. He'll give you the simple explination of..WE"RE ALL DOOMED!
in short the answer is NO. Basically, If you plan on accomplishing anything within the game, it will require loads of hours of playing, leveling, pvping, etc. U have to ask yourself, whats more important: My schoolwork or playing WAR?
And poor little Oakthornn can't back up his claim.
How do we know to believe you? I don't see any facts.
There isn't a game out there that doesn't give greater rewards to those who put in more effort. That's the way it should be.
Guildwars ? Greatest skillbased game out there atm.
Mythic themselves have said there's roughly a 60% power gap between tier 4 *average* gear versus *uber* gear. On top of that is the renown gap you'll get which also brings with it different abilities and stuff. (though the best gear will be linked to this I'm sure) They clearly stated trying to take on the king instance for example was not for the fainthearted who didn't have the right gear and didn't know what they were doing. I'm not saying the game isn't casual friendly but certainly not everywhere and the statement that gear is meaningless in this game belongs in the bin with the rest of the development hype some people still carry with them from last year. It's quite clear that players who have been playing for the last 6 months(after release I mean, not now lol) will have a clear advantage over new players and that same advantage exists in a stretched out version for players that play all the time versus players that only play every now and then. (perhaps even missing their chances at 3 weekly or so city raids)
They're also pushing a guild system which is almost ensured to create an elitist feeling among guilds, same as the statues for the "best" players. The game is built upon not only what the realm does but also individual(ToK titles etc, statues) and group based(Guilds etc) recognition. Although nice features to have for sure, anyone who believes there won't be elitism in such a situation is having faith in the unlikely rather than looking at what's in front of them.
That sounds horrible.
And unfortunately it sounds honest. It also sounds no better than Age of Conan.
~Eternally waiting for jump-in, FPS-style, WOW interface & controls, persistant world, Dungeons and Dragons setting, Epic PVP, ..Game.
please dont confuse wow esq gear progression with no gear at all. ALl games have gear..... WoW and EQ have gear as means of leveling up and not leveling up as means of leveling up. having an END game based around gear and raiding dungeons means the casual gamer will not be able to keep up... thats wow and EQ
Warhammer online will have RVR and PVP as the end games. so once you get to the end game.... well... its the end game. this is casual friendly because EVERYONE will eventually come to the same end it dosent matter how many hours you sink into a week. you will have more fun and more gold and more kills but eventually everyone will catch up to the spot you are at right now. In DAoC it was "casual friendly" because the casual player could make the same armor that you got off raids and all gear had a stat cap. so even if you played 50 hours a week and raided all day long and slayed dragons to your heart bleed.... you still wouldnt have more than 250 str and no weapon would ever do more than 16.5 damage.
casual friendly means I can come home at 6 and log on and play... not wait around for a raid or wait for computer controled dragons to spawn to fight.... I just log on, sharpen my axe, and walk in the direction of the burning city to have a good time for the night.
And that sounds awesome, and equally as honest, so not really sure what to think about this game.
DAOC was horrible, you couldn't solo that game in any enjoyable fashion, and the whole point of the game was after max level in the RVR.
There is some things that need to be pointed out. First of all casual or not yes there is stuff to do. Not only the PQ's ect but the zones for RvR may as well be level restricted like WoW's bg's. So what if you log in a couple times a week for an hour. Guess what? The PQ's help but for the PvPers you will always have competition at whatever level you are. People like me will always have a toon going through the 4 tiers. Odds are many will make a toon, help there side get the tier1 and restart just to keep tier1 on there side, same goes into effect for tier2 ect. This game begs you to make multiple toons for the HC player to keep taking tiers 1-3 for your side. Since you gain xp while doing RvR your not going to find twinks like you did in 19 BG's. If you PvP from the get go odds are your renown is always going to be around/equal to the person your fighting.
To me this is a huuuuuge plus to the casual crowd. No worrying that the other side had a guild spend many hours pimping out someone's low level for an ego boost.
If I am thinking right there are 40 levels. I would guess (maybe I'm wrong I dont remember any info on this) but that the zones would be 1-10, 11-20, 21-30 and 31-40. If you can only log on a few hrs a week does it really matter it may take you a month to get to the next zone? You will still be competeing against people equal to you at least up untill 40 where the ones who have many many hours to sack cities will prosper early on. By the time casuals get there most HC/average players will probably have there gear anyway and wont mind letting a casual join in on a king to get there's.
Please explain why people would keep going back to make tons of level 1-mid level characters? I don't understand why they would want to do that.
If theres alot of action and variety of enemy players in doing that, then yeah count me in, but I don't know why the low level - mid level zones would be "where it's at".
If I can jump into this game and find PVP action all day long, with little leveling pains, that sounds great. Who needs gear when there's always action happening at all levels of the game. It's why I'm staying in AV with a 60 right now in wow.
The reason being is each zone will effect the over all war. If you win zone 1 it will help you win zone 2 and so on. So what happens when one side controlls zones 1,2, and 3 while the other side is constantly doing well in zone 4 but just cant get that last push to sack the city. ALTS my friend. Its time to start a new toon to help take the first 3 zones back!
I may be wrong. I am not saying this is 100% but it makes sense to me at least.
First, thank you all for your replies. When I logged in today to see how my post turned out, I couldn't believe there were five pages of replies! I've read them all, and I am thrilled about WAR.
One thing I want to mention, because there were a few notes from, I assume, more hardcore gamers about casual gamers wanting to be the same without putting in the effort. Of course I understand that if you don't put in the same amount of time, you won't reach the same level of uberness or have the same experience. My concern from the beginning was the ability to have fun and share in the end-game experience, even if not at the same level, as the ultra dedicated hardcore gamers.
I, as someone who may be able to play 8 - 15 hours per week, am not looking to be the same as the 40+ hour per weeker. I'm just looking to be able to have fun. Guild Wars is a game that I absolutely loved, I was able to really enjoy the battlegrounds and other aspects of the game without being a freak about playing. As I noted, two other games that I played, Eve Online and Lineage 2, I would log in and kinda sit there, chat with people, see whats going on, and then realize that by the time something "got going" that was worth doing, I didn't have time to do it, had to log off, etc. Eve Online in particular, while I had amazing amounts of fun when I could put in the time, took forever to get anything going.
So with that in mind, I just hope that as WAR is finished up and prepped for release, features are added that: (a) keep casual players somewhat competitive or at least reduces the time/dedication penalty (but not eliminate it); (b) allow casual gamers to experience the end-game events and gameplay; (c) are specifically designed to enable 'something fun' to happen within 15 to 30 minutes of logging in.
Thanks again for the replies, and I look forward to seeing y'all in-game!
How can this game NOT be casual friendly. It is a game where you can level up on PvP. You go into an epic instance battle scenerio for 20 or 30 minutes. Get some exp killing fools, then leave.
There are no 3 hour Karahzan raids that have to be scheduled on a guild forum. No manditory PvP farming to keep a certain rank a week. No long waits for boss monster to spawn for your quest.
Comments
In case everyone hasn't noticed, Pheace usually just plays 'devil's advocate', he isn't a fanboi or a troll.
I believe WAR is very casual friendly. I can't say what hasn't been made public, but the public quest system, the fact that the only raid in the game is the killing of the opposition's leader, dungeons are split into smaller parts (kinda like SM in WoW, I know don't compare to WoW..blah, blah, blah) that can be comopleted one at a time so you can do one part, then wait a week, do another part, etc..., and that dungeons only require regulare sized (ie: one group) to complete them.
That is the majority of what has been made public that should encourage casual players to keep an eye on this game (always read up, and if possible, try before you buy).
Cheers!
MMO Vet since AOL Neverwinter Nights circa 1992. My MMO beat up your MMO. =S
If you expect to hang with the players that can invest 18 hours a day into the game then no you won't be able to stay competitive.
If you can only play 2 hours a day then you will only get 2 hours a day worth of effort in your toon.
All games are casual friendly, you progress as much as you can in those few hours, but anyone with more time to invest will always be further ahead than you, always.
You say you own your own job, if you don't invest time in your job, then it goes no where, where as someone who does invest time in their job goes places. (well that's the philosophy, until you get to the bosses buddies and the office slut,,, but we're not gonna go there).
So yeah, all games are casual friendly, but if you expect to be able to get all the leet crap the same as someone who can play 10 times more than you're sadly mistaken.
Want a taste of religion? Lick a witch.
Thank you, I realize my stance can annoy people sometimes but I'm used to it by now and I think that people who know me for it tend to be able to have good discussions with me ^^
As for the stuff mentioned here.
I'm not argueing that WAR will not have plenty to do for the casual gamer. I'm very convinced it will as Mythic has shown they realize there has to be.
I *am* however arguing against the idea that there won't be a (possibly sizeable)gap between casual players and "hardcore"(timewise) players and that there are points that support that view. (in my opinion at least, i may be misinterpreting but that's for other people to point out, unfortunately I'm not perfect
)
I agree that people who have more playtime in any game will progress faster than those who cannot, but I (and I hope others) look at whether or not you can still be efficient in a smaller period of time. What I mean is can you accomplish in 2 hours what the person who plays more can accomplish in 2 hours? In this game I would have to say according to what has been made public that you can. Yes you can say all games are casual friendly in a broad since, but most games have forced grouping to accomplish goals (here is where PQs shine, in that you can show up and participate without waiting to form a group) whereas this game does not until the end (according to what has been released). So you can log on, do your thing without waiting around for groups or others, and log off.
In the end, what is important is that you have fun. To some that is racing to the top and getting everything as fast as possible, to others its enjoying the ride to the top, others crafting, etc... In the end I believe this game offers it all to your soloers, guild oriented people, PvP'ers, groupers, even tiered progression peeps. The only people who I think may feel left out based on released information are your hard core raiders and hard core FFA loot people.
MMO Vet since AOL Neverwinter Nights circa 1992. My MMO beat up your MMO. =S
Yes of course the more a person plays a game the faster they will progress and the better they'll get compared to those who play less. But everything I've read about WAR indicates that it will be very friendly to the player that has only an hour or so to play each night. For most of the time that I've played MMOs I've been one of those players. I can tell you from my experience with other games that looking for a group eats a up good portion of your time. It looks like between the scenarios and PQs the limited time player will have a lot of options to get and get out while still having a significant experience in either PvP or PvE.
Games I've Played: WoW, FFXI, SWG, CoH, EVE Online
Games I'm Waiting for: WAR, Stargate Worlds
rvr is all about # so anyone can just follow the zerg and have fun.
Lots of arguments in this thread. But I don't see any acutal quotes from the Devs. So how about this:
"In the current crop of games that there is a glass ceiling on what a casual player can experience. You can get in and enjoy and play a significant amount of what each game has to offer, but you’re never going to the top tier unless you dedicate a significant chunk of your life, and as a result you’re always going to feel a little disconnected from the game as a whole. We’re trying to pull back a little from that – we’re making sure that our RvR focussed MMO doesn’t integrate its hardcore play at the expense of casual players. So if you only have four hours to play each week, we want to make sure you aren’t having a substandard experience."
http://www.next-gen.biz/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=9142&Itemid=61
Now people can argue about whether Mythic will be able to pull this off or not, but this articles shows that the Devs realize it is a problem that should be addressed.
I do agree the guild system looks really nice. There's a lot of things in there that should have been for years in my opinion. it's a nice step forwards.
I'm not quite sure how a raid signup sheet will remove fighting over raid spots all of a sudden though unless you feel a first come first serve system is perfectly justified and everyone will abide by that ^^
PS. I assume the fanboi remark is not aimed at my as I have never given AoC anything beyond even a secondary look.
ok okm it may not end all fighting or raids and such but its gives each player an idea who is going and they are also allowing extra slots to be add for sign ups for replacementsIm sorry if i have wrongly stated you were a fan boi i recognize posters by there avatars or sigs so i think someone has the same avatar as you ...oh well i'm sorry
I do agree the guild system looks really nice. There's a lot of things in there that should have been for years in my opinion. it's a nice step forwards.
I'm not quite sure how a raid signup sheet will remove fighting over raid spots all of a sudden though unless you feel a first come first serve system is perfectly justified and everyone will abide by that ^^
PS. I assume the fanboi remark is not aimed at my as I have never given AoC anything beyond even a secondary look.
ok okm it may not end all fighting or raids and such but its gives each player an idea who is going and they are also allowing extra slots to be add for sign ups for replacementsIm sorry if i have wrongly stated you were a fan boi i recognize posters by there avatars or sigs so i think someone has the same avatar as you ...oh well i'm sorry
Lol, that's elvenangel
Talk about cats and dogs there. 
what? what'd I do? *gets all confused* I'm not a fanboi people just don't like having the truth rubbed in their face they get pissed off I have a laugh (sometimes i get pissed off depends on my mood) it does not how ever make me a fanboi. A fan boi trolls going my game is gonna be leet for the win. I merely support the game that has the most features that support the particular gamestyles that I like and I have a short fuse when it comes to ignorant posters & trolls. I have no problem with other games if I did..that'd make me a fanboi.
I may dislike games for ME to play but I"ve never once said this is a shitty game about a game i haven't played..well except for UO..thats another story though.
btw I am absolutely NOT a fan of AoC. To even be...*shivers* shoved into that catagory is a great personal offense considering my anti forced group / guild / raid stance.
Please Refer to Doom Cat with all conspiracies & evil corporation complaints. He'll give you the simple explination of..WE"RE ALL DOOMED!
Warhammer Online seems like it's aimed mostly at Warhammer fans and hardcore MMO players because there are a lot of interesting new mechanics in the game for them. However WAR, is also very solo-friendly. It have a huge PvE game that you can play through and have a great time with, that you can solo all the way through if you really want to. .. In many respects it's probably the most casual-friendly PVP game that's around.
On a sidenote I plan on playing around 3-5 hours pr. week.
I do agree the guild system looks really nice. There's a lot of things in there that should have been for years in my opinion. it's a nice step forwards.
I'm not quite sure how a raid signup sheet will remove fighting over raid spots all of a sudden though unless you feel a first come first serve system is perfectly justified and everyone will abide by that ^^
PS. I assume the fanboi remark is not aimed at my as I have never given AoC anything beyond even a secondary look.
ok okm it may not end all fighting or raids and such but its gives each player an idea who is going and they are also allowing extra slots to be add for sign ups for replacementsIm sorry if i have wrongly stated you were a fan boi i recognize posters by there avatars or sigs so i think someone has the same avatar as you ...oh well i'm sorry
Lol, that's elvenangel
Talk about cats and dogs there. 
woah woah woah i would never confuse a DOOM kitty with fully a destroyer of worlds...
As long as there is some form of diferentation between the casual and the hardcore player I'm happy but there has got to be an advantage to putting in more time. Someone who plays 2 hours a week shouldnt beable to have everything that the person who plays 40 hours a week has.
And poor little Oakthornn can't back up his claim.
How do we know to believe you? I don't see any facts.There isn't a game out there that doesn't give greater rewards to those who put in more effort. That's the way it should be.
People who speak out of their arse often without combing through all the available data from developers should be ignored (he's what 1 out of dozens that say the opposite). This is not an uber leet raid focused game, everything is geared around realm..anything and everything you do matters. If you read anything about the mechanics of the game then you know they're trying to minimize the attitude that only hardcore players are worthy. Hardcore players are going to be the ones that 'own' the keep or 'lead the siege' but casuals will make up the armies and legions that keep the battle going.
Everything is made to be done fairly open wise...if a guild is sieging a keep casual players in the area can just wander right over and participate in the siege since its REALM based not 'group elite lemmings' based. If a city is being stormed the casuals can come in at any time and participate. There's very little 'group' based only things in the game.
Its good common sense there's no reason a casual shouldn't be able to participate and get rewarded. Everyone puts time into a game everyone should get rewards if it takes a hardcore 10 hours in 1 day to get something a casual player that works 2 to 3 hours should be able to get it in a couple of days. The crap raid focus of 'some games' made it impossible by making the 'raid' 5 to 8 hours worth of work in one shot. Its finally time Raids started to suffer a slow decline in importance...only what 10 to 20 percent of the gamer community even likes to raid.
Please Refer to Doom Cat with all conspiracies & evil corporation complaints. He'll give you the simple explination of..WE"RE ALL DOOMED!
Trust me when i say this. You CAN be casual in this game and compete.
And poor little Oakthornn can't back up his claim.
How do we know to believe you? I don't see any facts.There isn't a game out there that doesn't give greater rewards to those who put in more effort. That's the way it should be.
Guildwars ? Greatest skillbased game out there atm.
That sounds horrible.
And unfortunately it sounds honest. It also sounds no better than Age of Conan.
~Eternally waiting for jump-in, FPS-style, WOW interface & controls, persistant world, Dungeons and Dragons setting, Epic PVP, ..Game.
And that sounds awesome, and equally as honest, so not really sure what to think about this game.
DAOC was horrible, you couldn't solo that game in any enjoyable fashion, and the whole point of the game was after max level in the RVR.
Let me fight my fellow man, not level up.
There is some things that need to be pointed out. First of all casual or not yes there is stuff to do. Not only the PQ's ect but the zones for RvR may as well be level restricted like WoW's bg's. So what if you log in a couple times a week for an hour. Guess what? The PQ's help but for the PvPers you will always have competition at whatever level you are. People like me will always have a toon going through the 4 tiers. Odds are many will make a toon, help there side get the tier1 and restart just to keep tier1 on there side, same goes into effect for tier2 ect. This game begs you to make multiple toons for the HC player to keep taking tiers 1-3 for your side. Since you gain xp while doing RvR your not going to find twinks like you did in 19 BG's. If you PvP from the get go odds are your renown is always going to be around/equal to the person your fighting.
To me this is a huuuuuge plus to the casual crowd. No worrying that the other side had a guild spend many hours pimping out someone's low level for an ego boost.
If I am thinking right there are 40 levels. I would guess (maybe I'm wrong I dont remember any info on this) but that the zones would be 1-10, 11-20, 21-30 and 31-40. If you can only log on a few hrs a week does it really matter it may take you a month to get to the next zone? You will still be competeing against people equal to you at least up untill 40 where the ones who have many many hours to sack cities will prosper early on. By the time casuals get there most HC/average players will probably have there gear anyway and wont mind letting a casual join in on a king to get there's.
Xenogias,
Please explain why people would keep going back to make tons of level 1-mid level characters? I don't understand why they would want to do that.
If theres alot of action and variety of enemy players in doing that, then yeah count me in, but I don't know why the low level - mid level zones would be "where it's at".
If I can jump into this game and find PVP action all day long, with little leveling pains, that sounds great. Who needs gear when there's always action happening at all levels of the game. It's why I'm staying in AV with a 60 right now in wow.
The reason being is each zone will effect the over all war. If you win zone 1 it will help you win zone 2 and so on. So what happens when one side controlls zones 1,2, and 3 while the other side is constantly doing well in zone 4 but just cant get that last push to sack the city. ALTS my friend. Its time to start a new toon to help take the first 3 zones back!
I may be wrong. I am not saying this is 100% but it makes sense to me at least.
Hello everyone,
First, thank you all for your replies. When I logged in today to see how my post turned out, I couldn't believe there were five pages of replies! I've read them all, and I am thrilled about WAR.
One thing I want to mention, because there were a few notes from, I assume, more hardcore gamers about casual gamers wanting to be the same without putting in the effort. Of course I understand that if you don't put in the same amount of time, you won't reach the same level of uberness or have the same experience. My concern from the beginning was the ability to have fun and share in the end-game experience, even if not at the same level, as the ultra dedicated hardcore gamers.
I, as someone who may be able to play 8 - 15 hours per week, am not looking to be the same as the 40+ hour per weeker. I'm just looking to be able to have fun. Guild Wars is a game that I absolutely loved, I was able to really enjoy the battlegrounds and other aspects of the game without being a freak about playing. As I noted, two other games that I played, Eve Online and Lineage 2, I would log in and kinda sit there, chat with people, see whats going on, and then realize that by the time something "got going" that was worth doing, I didn't have time to do it, had to log off, etc. Eve Online in particular, while I had amazing amounts of fun when I could put in the time, took forever to get anything going.
So with that in mind, I just hope that as WAR is finished up and prepped for release, features are added that: (a) keep casual players somewhat competitive or at least reduces the time/dedication penalty (but not eliminate it); (b) allow casual gamers to experience the end-game events and gameplay; (c) are specifically designed to enable 'something fun' to happen within 15 to 30 minutes of logging in.
Thanks again for the replies, and I look forward to seeing y'all in-game!
How can this game NOT be casual friendly. It is a game where you can level up on PvP. You go into an epic instance battle scenerio for 20 or 30 minutes. Get some exp killing fools, then leave.
There are no 3 hour Karahzan raids that have to be scheduled on a guild forum. No manditory PvP farming to keep a certain rank a week. No long waits for boss monster to spawn for your quest.