Howdy, Stranger!
It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!
Quick Links
a case for role-playing
HART
Member Posts: 25
i posted this in the deverloper corner but i dont think anyone reads that page so im gunna put it here
If you havnt read my last post, heres a little background on myself. Ive been playing MMORPGs for about 3 years. My first was Anarchy Online(my favorite), but ive also played DAoC, SWG, COH(worst), and i just started playing Lineage2. Lately i have been a little dissapointed with the current MMORPGs, especially after playing COH. So i decided i would start writing my own MMORPG. I have some some ideas for how to improve elements of MMORPGs that i and others think need to be improved. Ive been doing a lot of research lately, trying to find ways to improve MMORPGs. Here are some of my findings.
What is the point of a MMORPG?
Well, first of all lets look at what MMORPG stands for. Massive Multiplayer Online Rolplaying Game. Basically it is a really huge version of a role playing game. Role playing is where a person assumes the role of of someone who they really arn't. Role playing is something people do to help a friend out who has an upcoming job interview, or like what an actor does on stage. There are many different ways people use role playing, and one of those ways is in a game. One of the first of these role playing games was Dungeons and Dragons. While I myself have never actually played D&D, i did a little research on it to find out what it was all about. The basic idea behind it, is to assume the role of a character who has powers and abilitys that the actual player does not. The player then uses his character to acomplish goals like raiding a castle and finding treasure, or lurking through a monsters lair to conquer the great beast. But players do not only explore this world by themselves, they can do it with other players who assume the roles of other characters. Players can either work together to advance through the game, or they can try to hinder the others progress by attacking them. Each player in the game essentially has the ability to change the gaming experience for everyone playing the game.
So now that we know what the point of a RPG is lets add the MMO. Massive is something that is really big. Multiplayer means that more than one person play in the same game at the same time. And online means that you dont have to be in the same room in real life to play with someone. So the MMO part, takes the RPG, and makes the game world bigger, and gives you a ton more people to play with, either as allies or enemies.
So what is wrong with the MMORPG titles that are out now?
The titles that are out now forget that this is a RPG. Just because they stick you in a world with dragons, and make you look like an elf, does not mean that you are role-playing. But the devs cannot make you role-play, that is up to the players right? well yes, but it is also up to the devs to give you the tools that you need to role-play, which in the games we have now, they havnt done. Role-playing shouldnt have to be text based, it should be in game actions. right now the only tools most games give for role-playing is the chat device. Here is an exaple of how players have to role play in game now.
this a conversation between two players, descussing how they are tired of theopression from the current leadership of the game world they are playing in.
Andrea: I am tired of being told what weapons i am allowed and not allowed to use, i think it is time we act
Ziorath: yes, i too am tired of restrictions and taxes, but we are still too short on arms and manpower to act we must be patiant
Andrea: Then i will wait for another day, but i refuse to pay anymore taxes.
Ziorath: but you must! you know what the king does to rebels!
Andrea: then i will go into hiding, but he will not get another cent from me
Ziorath: very well, you do what you must. i am going to help gather resources to make more top grade weapons for the resisters.
This is an example of text base role-playing, this is currently the type of role-playing available in MMORPGs. What i want out of a MMORPG is for the scenario to become an in game possibility. And i believe that this can happen in a game. While text base RPGing will always have more possibilitys, i find it to be less fun than it would be if your character could actually act out his actions in the game. And here is one way you could implement a senario like above.
At the start of the game, when everyone enters the world for the first time, the world already has an established governer. He is an NPC, and he has set rules in place, like who can own land, what weapons a person can and cant use, what skills you are allowed to use ect. Players have the ability to break these rules though, but if a guard sees them breaking a rule (ie: using a weapon that was deamed illegal) then he calls for backup(increased AI) and trys to kill the player. Now if a large enough group of people decide that they dont like the rules that are in place, they can try to overthrow the leader by killing him, and enough of his followers that they give up the throne. I could go into further detail for this but i wont right now.
So what are you trying to say?
Im saying that most of the current games claiming to be MMORPGs, are not really RPGs at all. The only point to them is to try to reach the max level, and kill some uber mob to get some uber item. Thus, the power gamer emerged. My definition of a power gamer, is someone who playes a game for long periods of time with the goal of being the highest level best equipped player around. Power gaming by that definition, is not role-playing, which is the whole point of MMORPGs. I believe that power gaming is the result of a lack of role-playing content. Power gamers want to make a name for themselvs, but without proper role playing content, the only way to do this, is to be the highest level with the best gear. The people who play MMORPGs as power gamers, would be a huge asset to a game that was truly built for role playing, because they would be the ones heading up the role-play events.
Comments
Well dont HART but i am not surprised people ignored your post.
Most people seem to be happy with the way MMORPGs are at the moment. They are fooled into thinking that killing lots of things if fun, and they think it is roleplaying. Even those people who have played D&D have forgotted its basic principles.
These games are not about player skill or killing or having loot. They are about affecting the game world via your actions. They are about taking the role of one person in a large world filled with other people. It is about taking responsibility for your actions and trying to form a community. This community should be policed by NPC's to prevent people from being antisocial towards the other players.
Yes you should be able to rebel against the AI rulers etc, but you should not be allowed to grief other players or to affect other players adversly by spoiling their fun.
There should be hundreds of non combat activities that you can do, other than crafting, mining etc. This should allow you to find your niche in the world. And all people should have something important to do. If you want to become a chef then you shouldnt be able to also be a kick ass mage, because you wouldnt have the time to do this. And your chef should be important. I know in some games like SWG you can be a chef, but there is no point because people dont need to eat.
Your characters should need to eat, and sleep and drink and relax as well as doing their main job, and possibly a hobby of some sort. Maybe even hold down a steady job. This just helps to immerse you in the world and allows you to roleplay. Fighting is not roleplaying because nobody would fight as much as people do on MMORPG's. Even fighters would spend lots of time sleeping, wenching, drinking, telling tales and learning the lore of the land. A well prepared fighter would have learned his lore and know to stab beast x in the leg to kill him, and not have to experiment when he is first faced with beast x. This is how you should have to play the game.
So bravo to HART for wanting a game which is just a standard roleplaying game, but on a large scale. This has never been done before for some reason.
MUAHAHAHAHAHA
MUAHAHAHAHAHA
This is so true HART. The main problem is that roleplay has not been integrated into the game, that is advancing your character (gaining power, money, experience) does not require roleplay.
Some specific examples showing that the upcoming MMORPG Dark and Light integrates role-play with character advancement.
Dark and Light organizes land ownership into a feudal system. Any player can take over a fortress (with buddies or hired NPC characters) and if he has the required skills to manage the land he becomes a noble. If your alignment controls the majority of fortresses in a barony then the fortress owners elected their baron as so on for several levels. These nobles set tax rates and hire NPC guards (and perhaps define other game elements depending on their rank) and can set any other rules since they can put out bounties on characters that do not please them (probably only good for their own territory). Nobles can also develop events and quests. So players will be talking about what each noble does or does not do in the roleplay fashion you mention. If they do not like the noble they may organize a boycott of the noble's economy, or they may refuse to aid him in repulsing an attack by the opposite alignment or NPC orcs, or they may refuse to aid him in keeping his mana fountains filled with resources (this aids in preventing attacks from the opposite alignment and a chain of active mana fountains is required for teleportation)
Since characters cannot attack other characters of their own alignment (alignments are Dark and Light) the only way to overthrow an evil noble is to arrange for the opposite alignment to attack the fortress or fortresses under the command of that evil noble. Hopefully economic warfare will be in the game so that other nobles can also "attack" evil nobles in this way.
The feudal hierarchy is a different set of social relations apart from player made clan relations so that adds another level of roleplay complexity as does the god faction of your charcter (the more powerful your god the more powerful it is).
This would be great, but an MMORPG like this requires a lot more work. There would be patches an holes everywhere. So you players kill the king and those directly loyal to him. So, does the world decend into chaos? Well it would, because players who only log on for x hours in a day/week won't have the time to set up a political system, a judicial system, a police force. Somewhere along the line people will be required to do very boring jobs if this is attempted. People don't want to log on and be called up for jury duty, and then have their character locked in prison indefinitely if they don't comply. I would like to see things like player jobs and things like that, but it has to be done very carefully, so that a player is never restricted as to what they want to do, they should never have to do a task against there will, such as saw planks for 2 out of the 3 hours they are online for. But, if you leave it up to the players then at some point they will log off, and the supply of planks will run out, or the city guards wont be online to stop a theif. Player involvement is great, but it has to be very tightly controlled.
Now this post is probably quite odd to read, I stopped about halfway and came back to it later, I can't remember what point I am argueing, so I was just throwing thoughts down onto the keyboard.
I hope it is understandable, and at least relates to the discussion.
-------------------------------------------
MMORPGs: Treadmills that make you fatter.
www.silkyvenom.com <-- a good site for Vanguard information
Good posts TianFeng and everyone.
Well thought out and intelligently stated.
I think we will see more and more "role playing" and true "role-playing" mmorpgs in the next year and beyond, as long as there is a market for it for the developers and producers of mmorpgs.
We live in such a fast-paced society right now that is constantly bombarded with stimuli compared to just a decade or two ago, that it is hard for developers to put forth a mmorpg with true "role-playing" that will be a commercial success. I do believe that there are enough of us "role-players" in the market to support such a game, but if people are going to pay for games that are more like fps fantasy mmogs, then companies will continue to put that type of mmorpg forth.
Dark-n-Light and Wish, and even Saga of Ryzom hold some promise according to the promised content that is to be included in those games. The only drawback is that the people that play those games have to "role-play" to make it successful. I think most of us have tried to both "role-play" on non-role-play and role-play dedicated servers and encountered a person or a group of people that were not into "role-playing". It doesn't take but a few people to ruin that experience.
Untill a company comes along, and who knows it might be one of the underdog mmorpgs being released this fall or early next year, and produce a game where advancement and success depends on how well you role play, then those of us who do role play and enjoy doing so will have to on the "role play" dedicated servers.
I for one remember the days of pen-n-paper role playing, and I enjoy the now computer generated sons and daughters of those games. Keep in mind, however, that the "role playing" experience and atmosphere is only as good and authentic as you play it and those around you play it. This was true back in the days of pen-n-paper and just as true today online on the pc.
thanks for all your replys everyone. I havnt checked out that game light and dark yet. i was just assuming it would be a standard mmo but it sounds kinda cool.
one thing though, that i really wish an mmorpg would come out with is permadeath. of course there would have to be a lot of other changes made in games for this to happen. but it would be really cool to play a game where you cant just come back to life with all your skill/items. i think thats why the original nintindo games kept me playing them far longer than i play games now aday. because i couldnt beat it in 1-2 days. sure ide have to go through the levels over and over just to get back to where i was before, but you learn new tricks and whatnot when going back through them. now i go buy a game and its beaten in 1 day and then i dont wanna play it anymore. MMOs last longer than 1-2 days though, the only reason being is the grind. ide like to see less grind, more risk. to make MMOs less stale than they are now