Howdy, Stranger!
It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!
Quick Links
My top 5 reasons why all modern mmos suck
Rekindle
Member UncommonPosts: 1,206
In order, from least to greatest, here are my reasons for being displeased with all modern mmos currently on the market. I am not speculating on any of the newer games that have not been released but I will say that I have pretty well given up on this genre. In my imagination I used to go to worlds. Now we have a Rosetta Stone for MMO development called Everquest 2.0 - B aka World of Warcraft.
Although its a great day for businessmen in the sense that they have found ways to jam these game worlds into forumlas and processes that produce the results THEY want, the original spirit of this genre is basically completely gone and replaced with some other form of entertainment. I don't know if the worlds of the old days will ever exist again because the tendency of the genre is towards this all powerful cash cow of World of Warcraft modeled implementation. Indeed, the aims of a gamer who wants to be entertained with a mmorpg world and the aims of producers who want to mass produce these worlds are at odds with this newly validated Rosetta stone.
How can 10 million people be wrong? ....maybe 5 million are playing because there's no other game in town.?
5. Level based games. Although there's nothing really wrong with level based progression, its the core construct for the ability to serialize game objects such as mobs and therefore paves the way for repetition of content. Level based games are not evil but their implementations have been.
4. Soul bound items. Someone needs to make a game that doesnt have bind on equip. yes I've heard the arguments. The great MMO Rosetta Stone tells us that it will wreck the economy, again = throw out that old way of thinking....that proverbial stone is the undoing of this genre.
3. over use of human death. I am not against the notion of doing battle with a humanoid object in a game world. But if there are 25 morons standing i and a field and I walk up and kill each one one by one thats just plain stupid. Also, how can you really RP alignment if your holy paladin warrior has killed 10000 people before hitting 40. Less combat more meaninful encounters are required. If im playing a mmo and I need to drop Mr. Mob then I want to know what he did - not just be some jackass chasing me around.(of course random encounters are welcome)
2. over use of magic items and gear. "This great ring was forged in the fires of Mt Kick ass in the last age" ....then WTF is it doing on this rat??? Mobs that can should drop gear, magic items should exist but be about 1/500th as rare (but nonetheless equally available). When i get a ring of magicness I should be able to tell you the story of how i got that ring.
1. Trivialization of the experience. My main point encapsulates all the others I've written. Magic is fun, slaying monsters is fun but more is not always better. The rewards from finishing tasks have become trivial. The content has become trivial and basically a means to the next end. There are some things we have learned, surely, from the evolution of this genre that we can feel safe to use (of course even that point is arbitrary) but I don't want a World of Kraft Dinner, instantly ready for my consumption.
Comments
1- "Endgames enforcement". Raiding/RvR/PvP all lack.
2- see #1
3- see #2
4- see #3
5- In doubts, remove any Raiding/RvR/PvP component and the game could only be better.
Honestly, I play for what I see at level 1. Not for what a geek in his mom's basement dream I should do in his game. If what I see at level 1 doesn't please me, I won't stick around. If you change it later on, I will quit. As simple as that. You can refine and improve it, make it more complex. But you EXPAND rather than SWITCH.
- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren
I agree a lot with the OP, why does amazing things come out stupid mobs lol I'm still looking for a modern MMO to actually have a storyline and purpose, instead of kill this then this and then this, you might get to craft but it will cost u all ur money and be meaningless as mobs drop better items and are alot easier to kill.
If anyone knows a game that isn't like the rest let us know lol
"Modern MMO's" Did I miss something .... when did mmo's go back in time to become old ... the MMO's have only really been around in the current incarnation for maybe 12 years (This leaves out old text based games) One would think a generation of players would need to happen before the referance of "Modern" could be used.
But I do agree a good Sandbox game is missing in the current line up.
Why come to these forums if all mmos suck? Are you trying to save me?
I only kinda agree, but I imagine we want totally different games.
5. Extremely agree ...levels are a time killer to keep you playing
4. Extremely agree ...non repairable durabilty is the answer to soul bound items (You die 10-50 times that item is gone)
3. Totally disagree ...Less pve ..pvp combat doesnt get stale like pve combat(being on the wrong side is good enough reason to me)
2. Kinda agree ...Why does the item have to be magical at all? Why cant it just be an item?
1. kinda agree ...Why do i have to do there stupid tasks at all? My goal should be to survive and conquer! (or become rich)
Own, Mine, Defend, Attack, 24/7
No matter what the game is:
Everyone has been playing eq1 with a sprinkling of daoc battlegrounds thrown in as an afterthought and dont even know it.( especially the kids of the first gen of mmorpg'ers. which even my kids are 12-20 now and still have no clue what EQ1 is, but will talk **it about it..mheh)
guess what game they mainly played?(but they dont anymore..total loss of interest after the scant content has been blasted thru) take a guess
EQ1 has had new servers come up and down, merge and cluster yadda yadda.....basically imo, all the games that are out, to date...are just a new server of eq1. All the newer games (2002 onward) are devoid of anything new with 90% less content, player interaction and interest. the only thing 'new' is : most all players and games are on cable now - gone are the days of mass dialup ld's, small comp's RAM pissing out on zone load in, etc..etc... (these things are what i consider the "polish" that everyone keeps talking about...heh).
With any game that has come out since around 2000-2002, nothing has changed since eq1... its all the same. over and over and over and over, no matter how you slice it. Sure one game may let you build a guildcity or one may let you do something else slightly different or even some may ride on the success of previous mmorpgs and ONLY put out what is considered 'safe' and what 'works' and people call it <ahem> "polish"...lol..hilarious.
mmorpgs arent Massive Multiplayer Online Role Playing Games anymore.......they are Single Player Online with LOTS of People around to "USE" when needed and have no true interaction with, games.
S.P.O.L.P.G.'s?
------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------------------------------------------
<insert gloat of ubar toon here>
<insert random game here>
<insert gloat of ubar toon here>
<insert gloat of ubar toon here>
<insert random game here>
---------------------------
<insert witty anecdote here>
<political/religious agenda here>
In Spirit I agree 100 percent with the OP.
However, I do have some thoughts on this topic.
First, the money, time, and creativity required to create a truly good mmorpg is simply too much for most teams to pull off.
I also assume the people paying for the project often meddle and ruin the games.
So what we are really looking for is a good team with the least meddling that has enough funding.
Blizzard could do this if they chose with a next generation game, as they have infinite funding now.
(Not saying I like WoW, just pointing out they have the money and manpower angles covered for a future project)
I have played a lot of mmorpg's now, and I feel each one has one or two fantastic features/ideas, but also a lot of weaknesses. If only all the good features of each game were brought together!
Any fool can criticize, condemn and complain and most fools do.
Benjamin Franklin
nice post.
nice post.
And unfortunantlly true.I still play EQ1, newer games don't really offer much new in gameplay style, only the odd mechanic change here or there.
Any fool can criticize, condemn and complain and most fools do.
Benjamin Franklin
This is the only one I really want to pick on...mainly because I want to tell my story of why this has been ruined for me. Like many people on this forum I started MMOing back when UO came out, and watched friends play EQ but I could never get into it, although had it been released now it would have a chance...anyway, back to my point, back then the thought of getting jumped at any point and the fear that i would feel (yes i know its just a game) when i saw a red name coming my way was half the fun. It was also fun hunting red players and cashing in on bounties and getting some fairly good equpment from them.
Unfortunately, this was ruined for me...by WoW. I had played UO since pre-UO:R up to pretty much AoS (Which destroyed any fun it was). Although it was not on official servers (i was young, parents wouldnt let me use the credit card sadly) I had my home on a very nice server which i had many friends on. Anyway, how wow ruined it for me, it removed every little threat that used to be in MMOs. In WoW i was not afraid to run in and possibly die, becasue what was the penalty? having to run back to your body with nothing but a small dent to durability. Also if you play on a PvP server (which I did not, due to the level based nature I had many times seen friends get ganked repeatedly) what happens when you fight a guy and win, he drops a trivial amount of money, like 20 silver. WOO GO PVP! Don't get me wrong, I loved wow, however it is the reason why I find it hard to not have soulbound items. I wish I didnt think this way, but i've been babied and thats what i'm used to now...its a sad sad world.
5. Level based - Please, NO MORE LEVELS. I dont think I could even bring myself to play a level based MMO anymore, its just so worn-out and predictable.
4. Sound bound items - One of the worst ideas EVER. Lets build a massively multiplayer game that restricts the players from interracting and trading as much as possible...
3. human death - mobs have always been beyond retarded in MMOs. Any improvements here would be welcome.
2. magic items - Another failed attempt at recreating PnP. Crafters should supply most of the gear, with the exception of those extremely rare magic drops. And I do mean extremely rare.
1. Trivialization of the experience - I agree here as well. Nothing to add really.
a top 5 reason given that no items are soulbound? Theres much much more reasons why modern mmos are, how shall I say..limited?
I disagree.
The OP is imaging a game where RP & story matters. That is NOT what MMORPGs are designed for. MMORPGs are designed as hack-n-slash games with cool loot. Story is never the fun part of hack-n-slash games. It is all about fun combat with good items. Logic & stories are secondary.
Diablo is the best example. I am sure Diablo has a story but 99% of the players wouldn't care less.
WOW is the same. In fact, if you listen to in-game conversation, no one EVER talks about the story. It is about maxing DPS or how to use this cool ability, or how to get this piece of cool loot. That is what players care about.
I see what you and the OP are saying. If you are trying to say that WoW has no story or lore, you are an idiot. The problem with WoW, and Nari eluded to it, is that the WoW story is hiding in books throughout the land. You have to go out of your way to read the story. If you follow the story from beginning to end, WoW is amazing. It is just a damn shame they buried it.
Fear not fanbois, we are not trolls, let's take off your tin foil hat and learn what VAPORWARE is:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vaporware
"Vaporware is a term used to describe a software or hardware product that is announced by a developer well in advance of release, but which then fails to emerge after having well exceeded the period of development time that was initially claimed or would normally be expected for the development cycle of a similar product."
5. sure lvl based is used everywere but hey if its not broke dont fix it.
4. Soul bound items are good because if you dont it screws up the economy... witch is stupid to do just because you dont like it.
3. WTF is the point in playing a mmo if from lvl 1-100 you kill a total of 50 mobs because "there has to be a reason why i kill them" get over it if you want a freaking reason cause your a rp then make one up thats what rpers do play pretend isnt it?
2. i can agree, but then it causes farming witch everyone knows is a bad thing.
1. thats what your asking for.... you want a game witch combat is a trival aspect of it... im sorry but thats just stupid.... your trying to turn a game into a dumbed down chat room filled with nothing.
if i run across some bandits i will kill them. if i run across some wolfs i will kill them, and if i run across some dragon mounted pig ppl i will kill them. and i want to run across them because thats what makes the game fun seeing new things with out a reason to.... I want to kill for no reason and i want to do it often!!!
nice thread, I agree with the OP and most of the responses. In my mind it is all encapsulated in the statement that MMORPG developers have steered games towards being work substitutes instead of being fun. I think this move tricked many of us, but only for a short time. If MMORPG developers do not return to focusing games on fun, this genre will not last much longer.
The next MMO should be the words.............
Forgotten Realms Online
Done right it would address most if not all 5 of those issues.
I know I am going to get flamed but oh well.
A few games coming out address your and many others issues (including mine) with the current batch of MMOs.
Citadel of Sorcery - www.citadelofsorcery.com
Darkfall - www.darkfallonline.com (this is were the flames will start)
Mortal Online - dont have like to website
And a few others.
Maybe slowly but surly we will start seeing more skill based games with better AI and better quest systems in the next few years. Maybe the MMO industry is not dead after all.
What we need to do as MMORPGs community as a whole is to support Indie game companies because they seem to be trying to go away from the cash cow clones and move into advancing the Genre in what I personally feel is the correct direction.
Sooner or Later
2. magic items - Another failed attempt at recreating PnP. Crafters should supply most of the gear, with the exception of those extremely rare magic drops. And I do mean extremely rare.
-I like it. Although maybe not 100% crafters, there should be more emphasis on crafting due to the fact that Plate mail + whatever enhance did not just fall off a piece of crap lvl * mob who had no skill wearing it. Kill a skilled mob via group solo etc then it is a bit more ligit. I remember when a drop of 95% durability in Dark Age used to be a great piece of gear.
-As for a leveling system.. i like it for the fact that there is a end in sight to grinding in some older games, but i would love a skill based system. If i wanna learn to ride a horse at the beginning of a game, skill should matter , not lvl. Level is a summed up base for all my skills. I want a game where I skill up to get good, not Level up. Skills can be potentially endless. Dishng out skills over time may be the problem though. But...if i have to kill mobs to ride a horse, it does not really make sense.
A world storyline? Yes. Do I want to be 100% directly involed all the time? Optional.
I totally understand the OP. I am not much of a RP person but I agree that the triviality and ease of gameplay is at an all time low. I can understand that the developers want to maximize their customer base but man are they overdoing it. The games have become so easy that there is no point in playing them. Its just "kill 100 ants", level up, "kill 100 beetles", lvl up, "kill 100 drunk thieves", lvl up etc. Killing an ant at level 1 is the same as killing a dragon at level 100. I simply cannot understand all those players that are showing off their items although the only thing needed to get them is time. Not player skill, not experience, not clever tactics, not exploring huge underearth caverns but simply killing 234234234234 wolves without any risk whatsoever until the damn thing drops.
Its funny though that whenever a game gets easier and solo friendlier then more players start to play it. I guess if I want a challenge I should play an RTS or a FPS. I just feel so frustrated. A challenging MMO with good combat, lots of freedom and a world to explore with friends would be so much fun. What has happened to the mindset that if I do not succeed at a task then I should try it again with a different approach/tactics until I succeed? I remember one developer saying that 90% of all MMO players have zero player skill and all "modern" MMOs are being made with this in mind.
I wonder where MMOs will go from here. I guess they are going to get dumbed down even more. I wonder how that will happen. I suppose instatravel/warp directly to the NPCs. Combos will just be buttons popping up as a big button on your screen and you have 5 seconds to click them. Maybe mobs will just die with one hit or have no aggro range but always drop something magical. A few days ago I tested this beta F2P game and they really incorporated a bot. Every player can just turn on a bot (with hundreds of customization options) and watch their toon kill off the NPCs needed to fulfill the quest. Whats the point ?
---
Insanity: Doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.
5. Instancing. Sometimes it works, sometimes it's over done. None the less, it's more often over done than not and I wish developers would get a grip on themselves with it for two reasons. First, it makes an MMO into a single player game where it's fairly hard to get players together even with LFG tools and the like. Second, they're wasting or under utilizing host servers by fragmenting system load across their entire infrastructure (this is a big no-no if you're trying to meet budget and really stupid as it leaves more points of attack for hackers to penetrate the game).
4. PVE focus. Sometimes PVE is just rehashed, sometimes it's redone right, but over all it's really stupid to just think that people want to play against a machine when historically people have played against other people for thousands of years of games. PVP doesn't always have to be ganking or blood sports. Even a trading simulation is PVP by nature that it pits two or more human players to succeed against the other (maybe even survive and cooperate, it all depends on the possible paths that can be taken). In the end, PVE is like print: it's dead.
3. Over use of existing intellectual 'properties.' Yeah, I'll probably pre-order AoC as my pity a developer purchase, still I'd love for someone to take someone like Harlen Ellison or even Whedon and work on an original IP that goes past the old ideas and conceptions of game worlds and stories. MMOs are part story, and that story should be something new. Maybe it won't break from the traditional journey of heroes sort of format, but sometimes addressing new concerns in a novel way that entertains can also be enlightening for all players.
2. Static game worlds. I'm tired of games not evolving in their environment. Most don't have seasons, migration of NPCs, nor even a basic ecology for their NPCs. I'd love to see something like this, but today none provide this and it's something that would improve games overall that are suppose to be persistent.
1. WoW-Clones. WoW cloned EQ and polished it in the extreme. Now, every jacktard wannabe developer thinks WoW is all that games can produce like some idiots use to think that Chess was all there is before the advent of modern board games, and so on. Games evolve because our knowledge as a species evolves, it's time to move on and stop thinking WoW is all there is in regards to gameplay mechanics, genre, and the like. Basically, STOP MONKEYING WITH THE MYSTICAL BELIEF THAT SUCCESS FOLLOWS TWICE!
-- Brede
I think the sucky part of todays MMO's is that they don't take advantage of being an MMO, I could spend hours playing WoW even if not a single other person was online, like if I had my own personal private server. Hell I could play that for months to be honest, the same way I play the same level of advance wars every time I take a crap.
Which Final Fantasy Character Are You?
if I were to kill a titan tomorrow and no CCP employees showed up to say grats I would petition it.
Waiting for: the next MMO that lets me make this macro
if hp < 30 then CastSpell("heal") SpellTargetUnit("player") else CastSpell("smite") end