good or bad game?

Gungorr · April 2008

can some ppl tell me if this is a good game or bad and the pros and cons of the game thx for the help

Amarsir · April 2008

You're asking people who play it regularly, so obviously we're going to say it's a good game.

Pros:

[*]Incredible costume and appearnce customization starting at level 1
[*]Very good player-search feature for pick-up groups.
[*]Crafting system that adds dimension but doesn't require you to run around clicking objects and waiting for a status bar
[*]Travel powers at level 14 let you move 5x the speed of before or more. Including flying.
[*]Scaling missions for solo or team play whenever you want
[*]Large difference between character choices, with numerous significant selection
[*]Three free issue releases a year, which may include new zones, new enemies, new powersets, or new add-on features like crafting or base-building.
[*]Great community, quick to help new players. And devs that communicate frequently with players on the message boards.

Things I like that may not appeal to everyone:

[*]One vs many combat (constantly beating up multiple enemies at a time instead of expecting constant 1v1).
[*]Heavy use of instances. (Missions are specific to you, no waiting in line for an enemy to spawn).
[*]PvP is completely optional and separate from PvEFast-paced and potentially dangerous (sometimes you can one-shot an enemy. Sometimes an enemy can one-shot you.)
[*]Hero theme

Cons:
[*]Not particularly well balanced, especially for PvP.
[*]It's expected that people will make multiple characters. Therefore the post-50 "endgame" is lacking. (Though it has been improved much over the past year.)
[*]Load screen between zones.
[*]Instances draw from the same pool of maps and enemy types. It's a fairly large pool and growing all the time, but there definitely will be times when you have to clear the Freakshow gang out of a warehouse, then clear the Freakshow gang out of an office, then clear the Freakshow out of a warehouse again. For example.

That's all I can think of at the moment. Hopefully it will give you

edited like 50 times because these boards don't handle UBB code right.

therain93 · April 2008

I've edited this since posting it elsewhere....(http://mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/post/1552023#1552023)

Warning 1: this is a long post

Warning 2: I am biased in favor of CoX but I will try to be as fair as possible.

I think City of Heroes and City of Villains, collectively known as CoX, is the best mmo on the market (although it comes with all the trappings of the mmo genre as well.)

It still has the best customization of character appearance going, breaking down the body into multiple parts that can be mixed and matched with an ever-increasing number of models and 180 colors (as well as color patterns). Your toon is recognizeable. By default, for each character you are given 4 costume slots, with the possibilty of adding a fifth from a Halloween event. You can create totally different costumes as well as change an existing one at the tailor, the only exceptions being that you can't change the model type (male/female/HUGE) or the height. Lastly, if you join a supergroup and enter supergroup mode, your character can customize how the supergroup colors appear on your costume. There is no problem of running into 30 people who look just like you...

It has 12 different classes (Hero: Tanker, scrapper, blaster, controller, defender, peacebringer, warshade; Villain: Mastermind, dominator, stalker, corruptor, brute). Each class breaks down into a group of 5-6 primary power sets and 5-6 secondary sets making for a ridiculous number of combinations alone. Couple this with the fact that you can further customize your powers from up to 4 different power pools that each contain 4 different powers and lastly an epic power pool with 4 different powers. Does this sound like there isn't that much diversity? Unless you hit upon the truest of min/maxer, you won't often see similar builds and even then....
character customization: http://youtube.com/watch?v=_Ds0MlN2l2Y
Powers are further customized with Enhancement slots, upwards of 6 of them, that can affect damage output, knockback, hold duration, recharge time, etc. With the 9th (nineth!) free issue, inventions were implemented into the game. Inventions, among other things, combine different power enhancements (like accuracy and damage) into a single slot. Furthermore, like other games, you can have sets of enhancements that bestow additional benefits as you acquire more of them.

I say this again and again -- combat in CoX is arguably the best, fastest and most epic in an mmo, short of not being a first person shooter. There is no attack queue, you are absolutely active and engaged. There is collision detection for all objects -- tanks really do tank and prevent melee mobs from breaking through the lines, going straight for the squishies. There is a Z-axis: In addition to multi-level battles, air battles are not only possible but the norm. As a hero, your toon is designed to be able to take on roughly 3 even-conned mobs....meaning groups battles can entail 25+ mobs at once. Of course, where's the challenge of that you ask? Well, aside from mass numbers, those thugs have lieutenants and bosses ordering them around... they're stronger and quite capable. Of course, we shouldn't forget the Villains, Arch Villains and Giant Monsters (the lattermost usually takes a raid-size group of players to take down.)

Giant monster battle: http://youtube.com/watch?v=xFpNMZde-mE

The AI in the game is pretty decent. Someone (Anofayle?) had a great post on it but to summarize. At the lowest levels, you'll see thugs basically switch between ranged and melee attacks and occasionally flee. Bosses will start using status effects. Eventually, as early as the mid-teens, you'll encounter mobs like the Tsoo sorcerer who ninja heals his comrades. And then later on you see Sky Raider engineers plunking down shield generators to protect his comrades while duking it out.

Although you can effectively solo any class based on its own capabilities, CoX shines as a group game. Everybody has a job -- crowd control, pets, buffers, tankers, damage dealers. When players come together, synergies naturally come about (unless you have a few weenies in the group -- can't stop that after all....) Need another perk? Perhaps it's the hero mentality, but the community is among the nicest out there and pick up groups (PUG) are EXCEPTIONALLY easy to find. Given the powerset diversity, there's also no formula to a group. Largely any combination can be plugged in (although 8 controllers in a group might be slow going...).

So, what's the down side to all of this goodness? Well....

the biggest complaint against CoX is that it is repetitive and grindy. So far as gameplay goes, you can attribute that to any MMO out there -- I think it's a matter of how well you can immerse yourself into any game. There are simply a set number of mission types: patrols, kill x, defeat this mob, retrieve this, talk to him, escort so and so -- every game has them but I think the comic-book fan wants a bit more. if you play 5 hours a day, every day, you will burn out the game. Honestly, I don't see how anyone can do that. I myself took what equaled a 21 month break (II'm an 18 month veteran, the 39 month veteran reward just came out so...) to follow my friends to wow but came back to CoX in November and have throughly enjoyed myself since. One last note about repetition is that even though most missions in CoX are instanced, the diversity of maps is quite lacking, particualrly cave and warehouse maps. New maps get slipped in with updates but it's noticeable still.

the second biggest complaint is that PvP hasn't lived up to expectations (Vajuras has posted about this quite a bit). PvP was first introduced with Arena battles as the game was heroes only initially. With the release of CoV, there are 4 dedicated zones for pvp. Supergroup raids don't really happen that often. Many of the old-timers blame the implementation of PvP (even with arenas) for the nerf bat that has been taken to some of the classes.

CoX lacks end game content. With the exception of the Hamidon encounter, now the Rikti Warzone, some PvP in Recluse's Victory and a few Task Force missions, there isn't much there unlike WoW has chains of Raid Level content. Here I think, CoX is more about the journey than the end. There are multiple story arcs that you can't necessarily see with just one toon and the diversity of skillsets (and character design) lend itself to making multiple alts. It's not a long-term solution for Hard core players and Achievers but it's a very statisying one for explorers and casual types.

CoX is largely instanced and some people simply don't like instancing. They'd rather race people for the single named mob and camp it for their mission. To me, instancing makes sense for some missions and CoX largely plays to those mission types. Please note, because it is instanced, one should not make any assumptions about the size of the world. It is quite large and broken down into many zones. I actually take more of an issue with zone loading time than instances.

City of Villains/Villian-side/"Red"-side is light on content compared to the heroes. There are a number of zones and the CoV game added many nice perks but there just aren't as many story arcs per level like the hero side.

Many people left after the issue (issue 4) that included "enhancement diversification". Essentially the developers implemented diminishing returns on ehancements if you slot more than 3 of the same type in a power. You still get a benefit, it's simply not a straight-line calculation any more. Many people put this on par with the Star Wars galaxies NGE in terms of radical change to a game and the way the developers thrust it onto the community. If you came in after the fact, you would never know about it and with the Invention system, it is totally mitigated but some of the old-timers still complain that this happened to the game mechanics and the community.

Lastly, some people need loot and the feeling that their character evolves. Enhancements for powers have always dropped but that wasn't deemed enough. With issue 9, salvage drops to create invention enhancements as well as costume parts that otherwise inaccessible. As mentioned earlier, you can change the look of your hero/villain at any time by visiting the tailor but it won't happen because of direct accomplishment. Furthermore, some people need to get the Sword of Slaying that is popular at the moment or else purchase fireball 4 after fireball 1, fireball 2, and fireball 3. In CoX, as you acquire powers, they scale up in effectiveness as you level and use enhancements rather than simply get replaced -- that was the design decision made on how your character evolves in the game.

But that's it, like anything else, you take the bad with the good --For me, I think the good far, far outweighs any of the bad and people looking for a new game ought to give it a try if the genre appeals to them. CoX runs with a population somewhere around 150,000 yet (even with fanbois padding vanguard and lotro) both CoH and CoV remain in the top 5 games ranking list here at mmorpg.com. It doesn't aspire to WoW numbers; it's a niche game that won't appeal to everyone but it's made many people very happy, even for brief spells. Aside from the dedicated masses like myself, even the people who leave say that for the 1-6 months they layed, it was great. Considering the game has a free trial and can be purchased on the cheap (including your first month free), you would be hard pressed to say you did not get value for your time and money.

green13 · April 2008

I think Amarsir summed it nicely. Sorry didn't read the next post - too long :P

I'd add a little bit though.

Character customisation is awesome. The fact that you can choose a primary and secondary set of powers can make for very interesting gameplay, because powers can be used together in interesting ways. A power in one set that might have a particular use on its own can sometimes be used in totally different ways when a power from another set is used in combination with it.

What this also means is teaming can be more interesting - because the same powers you use solo'ing can be used in different ways depending on the powers your team-mates have.

In my opinion, this set-up (+ costume customisation) has always been the game's saving grace. Because the instanced mission repetition really is... well repetitive. What kept me playing for so long was the interesting combat gameplay.

Enigma · April 2008

I still play it from time to time. Here's my take (sorry, didnt read the novelette).

Pros:

Best character customization hands down.
Wide array of powers
The unofficial RP servers actually RPs a lot versus other MMO unoffical RP servers (and official)
You can play an entire game of good specific or evil specific
Carfting uniform pieces are really fun
SuperGroup Basis

Cons:

The missions are boring as hell. Run into this building do this, run into that building do that. The grinding will get to you if you're not careful.
Ive never played it 3 straight months. I always end up cancelling and then coming back about 6 months later. This is tied to the first point of the missions being horrible
Very limited in terms of MMO play. No housing, theyve got bases tho. Graphics are getting a tad bit dated (no one has fingers. Just one big block for a hand with lines representing the finegrs).
Too many zones. Zone here. Zone there. Zone over here, etc.

Hope that helps

green13 · April 2008

Originally posted by Enigma
Cons:

Ive never played it 3 straight months. I always end up cancelling and then coming back about 6 months later. This is tied to the first point of the missions being horrible

I probably played for a good 4 months when I started. Was in a good SG and they took the edge off the mission repetition.

But I'm now in the same cycle you are. I renew for a month. Play for a few weeks to see what's new, create some new characters (cos that's fun), level one to 20'ish, then it starts getting repetitious and I cancel again.

None of the improvements they've made to the game over the years really changes the fact that the game ends at 50.

Pans_Folley · April 2008

I can tell you all the good things I enjoy in the game, and they may be the things you hate the most. I'd say, take them up on the free 14 day trial and see for yourself. The learning curve is simple enough as you can load right up into the tutorial and run it in less than an hour. I have 4 years of playing this game and I have watched it mature since beta. It is getting ready to expand once again and I am very excited about it. Give it a try, there is no cost to you and if you don't like it, no money lost.

Feldron · April 2008

Good

also try the free trail it wil give you some insight to the game

ElJackyl · April 2008

All of the above is pretty much true. If you are a comic book fan you can't beat it. The character creation is really cool. The power combinations are great. Also, Coh and Cov are actually two seperate games that you get for the one price. CoV is not quite as big but the classes are different enough that it's a fresh alternative. They are also adding two epic villian classes. If you are crazy about gear this is not the game for you. The only gear really are your enhancements to your powers. But there is enough room for diversification there. The invention system is ok. But I think the best part is the player community. I play on Pinnacle and it's never hard to find a group for help. Or if you just need to ask something someone will always respond. I find the community in games like WoW and EQ2 to be somewhat elitist. Everyone in CoH seems to be more laid back.

The cons are also true. Missions are heavily instanced which some people don't like. But I think it's cool to have your own mission going with the team you have. No mob camping, etc. You can also crank up the difficulty if you have a large group resulting in mad xp. It is broken up into zones but the game is still quite large. Also a lot of these things help keep a game running smoothly. Yes in a perfect world it would all be persistent but that's just not realistic. End game content is a little lacking so if you're the type that likes to blow through to level 50 in a week you may get bored. But there is plenty of room to replay with an alt. Some more endgame and balanced pvp content and this game will be sticking around for a while.

One addition to the comments above is that you can respec your powers at levels 24,34,and 44. So if you make a mistake or don't like your power choices you can redo them from level 1.

Gungorr · April 2008

thx all seem like a good game ill try it out see if its good thx again

mickk · April 2008

really is a better game.....i like

therain93 · April 2008

Originally posted by green13

I think Amarsir summed it nicely. Sorry didn't read the next post - too long :P.

LOL! no worries, it was a cut and paste job from a post I wrote a while back -- occasionally I do that rather than just link back ( ' :

Krayzjoel · April 2008

The only thing i didnt like about the game was when you signed on it was hit or miss in finding a group of ppl to team with. Other than that outstanding!!!!

DrowNoble · April 2008

The game isn't as "deep" in some aspects as other games. They did introduce crafting of a sort but you don't NEED all the leet-enhancements to be competative. It is still not gear based game by far, picking your powers and slotting them correctly has greater impact than the quality of the enhancements.

Graphics wise, game still looks good even after 4 years. A while back they added ragdoll physics, which really perked up the eye candy. I enjoy kicking a bad guy seeing him fly back and flipping over a crate.

Great community too, unless you make a complete nuisance of yourself. Don't know something just ask! Unlike That Other Game, vast majority of the time you will get helpful advice instead of snarky remarks.

Of all the MMO's that have come out since 2004, CoX is the only one that has never left my hard drive.

jus10datl · April 2008

I just came back to CoX for the first time in a year. They improved the game a lot. My only drawback is that a lot of the times you dont know everything your character can do, or everywhere he can go. Ive played for about 3 months through the course of 2 years and I am still finding out new stuff almost daily. No other game compares to the character customization in CoX.

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