An instance is a place where you can't see anybody except your group (if ur in 1)
A Zone is a place where you CAN see and interact with about every character that is in this same zone, so in no way is Instance = Zone.
Troll off.
Oh goodies, another one.
So the difference between the zone and instance according to you is the fact you are alone in one and have company in the other.
Hove exactly dos that change the fact you need to load into one (be it a zone or an instance) or the fact that zone can be miniscule. My point was at the top of the chain stating that world is seamlesss and the fact you load zones negates that.
I have a laugh thoguh, if this is trolling I cannot wait to see screams and shrieks when OB starts and people start really trolling.
I would appreciate comments by somebody like Avery or Xasapis but I found the later's post on the subject that clarifies the things I was wondering about.
This is not a shot at AoC. I played most all MMO's, at least the heavy hitters. And I spent most all day outside but I was thinking about graphics and how far they had advanced in the last few years, and my OPINION is not very far. WoW= cartoon EQ2= a little better, but something just seems off Vanguard=same as EQ2 D&D= a little better, but thats just me Lotro= same as WoW, but I guess it got better from what they say ( kind of smart, by doing it with a patch ) Tabula Rase=same as EQ2 but the terrain is not as flat From old to new they just don't seem to get much better, Warhammer seems as if there playing the safe road and just do the WoW thing, BUT Age of Conan is trying to give what a lot of people are screaming for high end graphics. And of coarse I'm not a dev., but to do this it seems as if they have to have smaller zone's and load times and maybe even walls, like a lot of off-line RPG's and they just were not prepared for people to not except that. So I guess technology is not their yet, maybe not even close. So i guess they have to make a choice. I guess in 2008 good graphics still comes with a price tag.
I believe you forgot about Aion who's coming out in 2008 . It has an oustanding graphic which from my opinion it has the best one.
Reporter: What's behind Blizzard success, and how do you make your gamers happy? Blizzard Boss: Making gamers happy is not my concern, making money.. yes!
If there is zone and load times in AoC, their is a good chance that buildings could have load times too. I can handle load times if zones are large, but not buildings like in most RPG's.
And going off topic a little, I just hope that there is not a lot of cinematic cut scenes. I just can't help thinking AoC is like most new RPG's. In all the stuff I learned about AoC, no one has ever mentioned cut scenes but its a concern I have.
An instance is a place where you can't see anybody except your group (if ur in 1)
A Zone is a place where you CAN see and interact with about every character that is in this same zone, so in no way is Instance = Zone.
Troll off.
Oh goodies, another one.
So the difference between the zone and instance according to you is the fact you are alone in one and have company in the other.
Hove exactly dos that change the fact you need to load into one (be it a zone or an instance) or the fact that zone can be miniscule. My point was at the top of the chain stating that world is seamlesss and the fact you load zones negates that.
I have a laugh thoguh, if this is trolling I cannot wait to see screams and shrieks when OB starts and people start really trolling.
I would appreciate comments by somebody like Avery or Xasapis but I found the later's post on the subject that clarifies the things I was wondering about.
Dude the world isn't seamless, I think the devs already stated that you load into zones to get from an area to another, that's nothing new.
Just don't pay attention to the trolling thing if you ain't 1 but it's just the way you type that feels like it. Again if u don't feel concerned by my last 2 words just ignore them and plz accept my apologies!
Sorry but Zones and Instances are the same thing. They only differ in size but the mechanics are the same. And if Funcom uses zones like EQ2 does then you may very well see multiple instances of the same Zone if the population is too high in a zone. That is how EQ2 handles zones, so I wouldn't be surprised.
Now nowhere does it say that instances are only like WoW's instances. Instances can be like Darkness Falls in Dark Age of Camelot. It was an area that you portalled into that was smaller then a "Zone" but had people from different realms and groups in it.
Instance does not mean "WoW" style instances. That is just one type there are numerous different instance uses and it doesn't equal single party automatically.
So actually you guys saying instances do not equal zones are the ones trolling.
Currently playing: LOTRO & WoW (not much WoW though because Mines of Moria rocks!!!!)
Looking Foward too: Bioware games (Dragon Age & Star Wars The Old Republic)
No there is not going to be numerous copies of the same area there will be only ONE zone which you need to load to like in any game when entering a house, castle or zone.
Every player that enters the zone will be able to interact and play with any other player that is in the same zone and you don't need to be in a group to do that.
There is only one instanced area in the game and that is the PVE city area.
Dungeons are probably also instanced.
To compare with WoW, area is Kalimdor and going from Kalimdor to Eastern Kingdoms (other zone) is no problem at all and theres no copy of anything anywhere.
From old to new they just don't seem to get much better, Warhammer seems as if there playing the safe road and just do the WoW thing, BUT Age of Conan is trying to give what a lot of people are screaming for high end graphics. And of coarse I'm not a dev., but to do this it seems as if they have to have smaller zone's and load times and maybe even walls, like a lot of off-line RPG's and they just were not prepared for people to not except that. So I guess technology is not their yet, maybe not even close. So i guess they have to make a choice. I guess in 2008 good graphics still comes with a price tag.
Actually, WAR went with the way thing been done for 20 some years for them! Look at anything from Gamework Shop and you will see, it always been like it from 40k to fantasy... and in fact WoW copy the format.
The problem is not technology, but the _avg_ computer setup, I played all those games you mention, and agree on most part of what you did say about them. But if you want something that is visually stunning and want to be able to run it at more then 10 FPS, then you gonna have to cut some corner. We all know not everyone can afford a brand new pc every 3months to keep up with "Moore's Law"
I played all type of games, from instance all the way, to small zone, to large zone... and to tell you the truth each time I found a flaw. It's like I can never be happy. Instance you lose on ppl interaction, large zone you have to much ppl interaction, small zone well train and to many ppl. Wait a sec, I'm totally off topic now but my point being, you have to balance the two, the zone type will determine what type of graphic your game will support. Character model is a large one too, I mean, we all want diff type of armor, we all want to be special looking.. and yet we want to have the game run at 1000 FPS, well this can't happen.
I'm starting to believe that yes a physic card would greatly help the gaming industry, you could have the card run most of the partical (sp) effect, cause we all know the most laggy zone in any MMO are those with a lot of partical effect, Fire come to mind.
anyway, that is my $0.02
[Betafreak]Microbe "Marines don't die, they regroup in hell -Tribe" X
I fear that at this point we're arguing about the academic interpretation of a certain game element. As long as everyone understands the same thing, it matters little how we call it.
We can start calling a small zone, that can contain just one raid, a raid zone. The thing is, most raid zones in the most popular games are instanced, aka multiple separated copies of the same zone can exist for each raid group.
We can start calling a bigger area, that can contain an X big amount of people entering (say 1000 people), an area. Now these areas can be seamlessly connected to other areas or a loading screen can separate them. Again, depending on the server load decided by the developers, an area can, in both the seamless and the loading screen options, be instanced. That means that when, say 800 people out of the 1000 limit are in the area, the 801 and more will enter in the new instanced area. If the game behaves smartly, it will keep the people from the same guild, groups, raid groups, declared enemies and people with similar ties in the same instance, until the 1000 limit is reached. If done right and if the limit is big enough, most people won't notice a thing.
We usually call the raid zones instances because 100% of the time, they are. The truth is, any area no matter how big, can be instanced, if it reaches the limit set by the developers. I'm inclined to believe that even games with seamless connections between zones used instances of their starting zones, at least for launch.
Coming back to AoC, since these are the game's boards. We do know for sure that the world areas are separated by loading screens. I have a pretty decent computer so I'll avoid talking about how intrusive the loading screens will be. It's going to be a different deal for different people.
I'll also avoid talking about the Tortage area, since it is the game's starting zone. It also makes sense to make the MMO part of the area instanced when more than X (unknown limit) people are in it. The area was originally built as a single player experience and for that purpose it's huge. Funneling however the whole server through that space is madness to even consider.
Moving now to the mainland and things change drastically. The zones can contain realistically a lot of people. How many I have no idea. Whether the zones will be instanced or what the limits will be is something unknown as well. At this point the developers need to strike the balance. Put too many players in an area with a set amount of quests, a set amount of mobs and a set amount of scenery and they will experience what I did when I played Lineage 2 at launch, there weren't enough damn foxes to kill and leave that area (hehe). So if I wanted to give the best PvE experience for my players, I would instance the zones and keep the limit of players inside low. If I wanted to give the best PvP experience, I would keep the limits high or have no limits at all.
I have absolutely no idea how Funcom will handle the areas, if they will be instanced, what would the upper limits would be before they turn into slide show etc. Hopefully Funcom managed to gather enough data from the tech tests to make the best choices, given the limitiations imposed by their game engine. One thing is certain, that the zones can contain many many more people than a raid group. How many, no idea. I would expect however, given the explanation above, if the zones are instanced (which I don't know at this point), to have different limits between the different kind of servers.
I can tell you that the graphics in Conan are the best I've seen from an MMORPG. I run the game with all the settings maxed out using DX10. I've been wanting to run LOTR with DX10 but I don't really want to reinstall the game to run under vista. Funcom has done a lot of work on the game and they keep improving the graphics over time.
To address the main question why haven't graphics become better over the years is it's hard technically to improve graphics while keeping online games running smooth. So companies look what they want the game to do and figure out how pretty the game can look and still run on an average players computer. Taking in to consideration all the information the server has to pass to the pc when a large group of players is in an area together is also a factor. So often graphics are sacrificed over gameplay and playability.
I spent over a grand on two video cards and still get slowdowns in towns with everything turned up on AoC. LOTR runs no problem with max settings. But is the average person going to pay over a grand just on graphics cards? Probably not.
It's all a balancing act and most companies choose substance over graphics and the possibility of leaving a large group of people out.
Oh and LOTR looks amazing compared to WOW. I tried to go back to WOW and play with some friends and the graphics were to bad.
Comments
An instance is a place where you can't see anybody except your group (if ur in 1)
A Zone is a place where you CAN see and interact with about every character that is in this same zone, so in no way is Instance = Zone.
Troll off.
An instance is a place where you can't see anybody except your group (if ur in 1)
A Zone is a place where you CAN see and interact with about every character that is in this same zone, so in no way is Instance = Zone.
Troll off.
Oh goodies, another one.
So the difference between the zone and instance according to you is the fact you are alone in one and have company in the other.
Hove exactly dos that change the fact you need to load into one (be it a zone or an instance) or the fact that zone can be miniscule. My point was at the top of the chain stating that world is seamlesss and the fact you load zones negates that.
I have a laugh thoguh, if this is trolling I cannot wait to see screams and shrieks when OB starts and people start really trolling.
I would appreciate comments by somebody like Avery or Xasapis but I found the later's post on the subject that clarifies the things I was wondering about.
I believe you forgot about Aion who's coming out in 2008 . It has an oustanding graphic which from my opinion it has the best one.
http://mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/setView/overView/gameID/253
Reporter: What's behind Blizzard success, and how do you make your gamers happy?
Blizzard Boss: Making gamers happy is not my concern, making money.. yes!
If there is zone and load times in AoC, their is a good chance that buildings could have load times too. I can handle load times if zones are large, but not buildings like in most RPG's.
And going off topic a little, I just hope that there is not a lot of cinematic cut scenes. I just can't help thinking AoC is like most new RPG's. In all the stuff I learned about AoC, no one has ever mentioned cut scenes but its a concern I have.
An instance is a place where you can't see anybody except your group (if ur in 1)
A Zone is a place where you CAN see and interact with about every character that is in this same zone, so in no way is Instance = Zone.
Troll off.
Oh goodies, another one.
So the difference between the zone and instance according to you is the fact you are alone in one and have company in the other.
Hove exactly dos that change the fact you need to load into one (be it a zone or an instance) or the fact that zone can be miniscule. My point was at the top of the chain stating that world is seamlesss and the fact you load zones negates that.
I have a laugh thoguh, if this is trolling I cannot wait to see screams and shrieks when OB starts and people start really trolling.
I would appreciate comments by somebody like Avery or Xasapis but I found the later's post on the subject that clarifies the things I was wondering about.
Dude the world isn't seamless, I think the devs already stated that you load into zones to get from an area to another, that's nothing new.Just don't pay attention to the trolling thing if you ain't 1 but it's just the way you type that feels like it. Again if u don't feel concerned by my last 2 words just ignore them and plz accept my apologies!
Sorry but Zones and Instances are the same thing. They only differ in size but the mechanics are the same. And if Funcom uses zones like EQ2 does then you may very well see multiple instances of the same Zone if the population is too high in a zone. That is how EQ2 handles zones, so I wouldn't be surprised.
Now nowhere does it say that instances are only like WoW's instances. Instances can be like Darkness Falls in Dark Age of Camelot. It was an area that you portalled into that was smaller then a "Zone" but had people from different realms and groups in it.
Instance does not mean "WoW" style instances. That is just one type there are numerous different instance uses and it doesn't equal single party automatically.
So actually you guys saying instances do not equal zones are the ones trolling.
Currently playing:
LOTRO & WoW (not much WoW though because Mines of Moria rocks!!!!)
Looking Foward too:
Bioware games (Dragon Age & Star Wars The Old Republic)
No there is not going to be numerous copies of the same area there will be only ONE zone which you need to load to like in any game when entering a house, castle or zone.
Every player that enters the zone will be able to interact and play with any other player that is in the same zone and you don't need to be in a group to do that.
There is only one instanced area in the game and that is the PVE city area.
Dungeons are probably also instanced.
To compare with WoW, area is Kalimdor and going from Kalimdor to Eastern Kingdoms (other zone) is no problem at all and theres no copy of anything anywhere.
Actually, WAR went with the way thing been done for 20 some years for them! Look at anything from Gamework Shop and you will see, it always been like it from 40k to fantasy... and in fact WoW copy the format.
The problem is not technology, but the _avg_ computer setup, I played all those games you mention, and agree on most part of what you did say about them. But if you want something that is visually stunning and want to be able to run it at more then 10 FPS, then you gonna have to cut some corner. We all know not everyone can afford a brand new pc every 3months to keep up with "Moore's Law"
I played all type of games, from instance all the way, to small zone, to large zone... and to tell you the truth each time I found a flaw. It's like I can never be happy. Instance you lose on ppl interaction, large zone you have to much ppl interaction, small zone well train and to many ppl. Wait a sec, I'm totally off topic now
but my point being, you have to balance the two, the zone type will determine what type of graphic your game will support. Character model is a large one too, I mean, we all want diff type of armor, we all want to be special looking.. and yet we want to have the game run at 1000 FPS, well this can't happen.
I'm starting to believe that yes a physic card would greatly help the gaming industry, you could have the card run most of the partical (sp) effect, cause we all know the most laggy zone in any MMO are those with a lot of partical effect, Fire come to mind.
anyway, that is my $0.02
[Betafreak]Microbe "Marines don't die, they regroup in hell -Tribe" X
I fear that at this point we're arguing about the academic interpretation of a certain game element. As long as everyone understands the same thing, it matters little how we call it.
We can start calling a small zone, that can contain just one raid, a raid zone. The thing is, most raid zones in the most popular games are instanced, aka multiple separated copies of the same zone can exist for each raid group.
We can start calling a bigger area, that can contain an X big amount of people entering (say 1000 people), an area. Now these areas can be seamlessly connected to other areas or a loading screen can separate them. Again, depending on the server load decided by the developers, an area can, in both the seamless and the loading screen options, be instanced. That means that when, say 800 people out of the 1000 limit are in the area, the 801 and more will enter in the new instanced area. If the game behaves smartly, it will keep the people from the same guild, groups, raid groups, declared enemies and people with similar ties in the same instance, until the 1000 limit is reached. If done right and if the limit is big enough, most people won't notice a thing.
We usually call the raid zones instances because 100% of the time, they are. The truth is, any area no matter how big, can be instanced, if it reaches the limit set by the developers. I'm inclined to believe that even games with seamless connections between zones used instances of their starting zones, at least for launch.
Coming back to AoC, since these are the game's boards. We do know for sure that the world areas are separated by loading screens. I have a pretty decent computer so I'll avoid talking about how intrusive the loading screens will be. It's going to be a different deal for different people.
I'll also avoid talking about the Tortage area, since it is the game's starting zone. It also makes sense to make the MMO part of the area instanced when more than X (unknown limit) people are in it. The area was originally built as a single player experience and for that purpose it's huge. Funneling however the whole server through that space is madness to even consider.
Moving now to the mainland and things change drastically. The zones can contain realistically a lot of people. How many I have no idea. Whether the zones will be instanced or what the limits will be is something unknown as well. At this point the developers need to strike the balance. Put too many players in an area with a set amount of quests, a set amount of mobs and a set amount of scenery and they will experience what I did when I played Lineage 2 at launch, there weren't enough damn foxes to kill and leave that area (hehe). So if I wanted to give the best PvE experience for my players, I would instance the zones and keep the limit of players inside low. If I wanted to give the best PvP experience, I would keep the limits high or have no limits at all.
I have absolutely no idea how Funcom will handle the areas, if they will be instanced, what would the upper limits would be before they turn into slide show etc. Hopefully Funcom managed to gather enough data from the tech tests to make the best choices, given the limitiations imposed by their game engine. One thing is certain, that the zones can contain many many more people than a raid group. How many, no idea. I would expect however, given the explanation above, if the zones are instanced (which I don't know at this point), to have different limits between the different kind of servers.
I can tell you that the graphics in Conan are the best I've seen from an MMORPG. I run the game with all the settings maxed out using DX10. I've been wanting to run LOTR with DX10 but I don't really want to reinstall the game to run under vista. Funcom has done a lot of work on the game and they keep improving the graphics over time.
To address the main question why haven't graphics become better over the years is it's hard technically to improve graphics while keeping online games running smooth. So companies look what they want the game to do and figure out how pretty the game can look and still run on an average players computer. Taking in to consideration all the information the server has to pass to the pc when a large group of players is in an area together is also a factor. So often graphics are sacrificed over gameplay and playability.
I spent over a grand on two video cards and still get slowdowns in towns with everything turned up on AoC. LOTR runs no problem with max settings. But is the average person going to pay over a grand just on graphics cards? Probably not.
It's all a balancing act and most companies choose substance over graphics and the possibility of leaving a large group of people out.
Oh and LOTR looks amazing compared to WOW. I tried to go back to WOW and play with some friends and the graphics were to bad.
To shaggynick:
Are you a Funcom developer? If not, check the shader you're using. As I said, AoC shader 3 is a tad better looking than LOTRO shader 4.