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raid question
MMOman101
Member UncommonPosts: 1,786
I have read that there are 18 people in a raid. What is the composition generally? I know there is more then one way and there will be slight deviation, just wondering what people normally bring. I assume there are 2-3 tanks, 5-6 healers and 9-10 DPS. Is this at all even close to what is generally considered expectable raid numbers?
Also, if there are 18 people in a raid I assume the group size is 6. Is there some group content that is designed for less then max group size. I think I read somewhere that there was some content that was regularly done with 3 people at appropriate level.
I know I have asked many questions about this game recently, and I very much appreciate the thoughtful answers I have received. One of the things that have brought me to this game is the apparent level of maturity the player base has. It is refreshing to read game forums online where people write in complete sentences.
--John Ruskin
Comments
Alot of dungeons is made so that you can go in with 2-3 people and in same dungeon there will be areas that is appropriate for more people in the group. But there is also the (obvious) 'thing' with what level you are when entering the dungeon, not something special here, that decides for how many you have to be.
And there is actually that many dungeons so you, quite certain, will be going in to alot of them after you outleveled them just to see how they are. No you wont (well you can stop the XP-gain) be able to experiance all of the contenta and dungeons avaible on one character, not even remotely close. What I mean is that there is enough dungeons to make a descent new experience for an alt.
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"You have the right not to be killed"
Alot of dungeons is made so that you can go in with 2-3 people and in same dungeon there will be areas that is appropriate for more people in the group. But there is also the (obvious) 'thing' with what level you are when entering the dungeon, not something special here, that decides for how many you have to be.
And there is actually that many dungeons so you, quite certain, will be going in to alot of them after you outleveled them just to see how they are. No you wont (well you can stop the XP-gain) be able to experiance all of the contenta and dungeons avaible on one character, not even remotely close. What I mean is that there is enough dungeons to make a descent new experience for an alt.
My grammar checker exploded
FUNCOM - putting the FUN in disFUNctional !
Like Orphes, I never had the time to raid or the motivation to join a raiding guild, so I won't comment on that aspect of the game. You are correct about the max group size bing 6 however, and unless the raid scheme has changed with UD4, the raid can carry 24 players (although only 18 can engage any target). This design was to make possible the utilization of different classes for different events.
There is actually very little content that requires a full 6 member group. Nearly all of the premiere dungeons can be handled by 3-4 players (reasonably geared and fairly well-played). This was not the intent at conception, but rather a side effect of the class tweaking that has occurred since launch, making most classes highly overpowered compared to NPCs and the AI (or lack thereof). I'm not saying the dungeons aren't fun, just that if you want a challenging experience, you should probably trim the group down a bit to 3 or 4 PCs.
The ideal raid make-up depends completely upon the mob(s) that are the targets. What is ideal for one could be sub-optimal for another. The variability in Raid Boss targets includes, dead or undead, tactics they use and what is need to counter those tactics, is speed needed in the kill, will other mobs come to assist the Boss etc. etc. etc. This is what makes raiding so damn fun in Vanguard. Heck, our guild has just as much fun perfecting the strategy and tactics as we do when we finally overcome a Dungeon Boss.
Generally, the more diverse the raid force the better. And that's not just diverity of healer vs. tank or even Shaman vs. Cleric. It is awesome to have all 3 shaman types for their different abilities for example, or at least a couple different clerics (Death vs. Peace) for what they can bring to the table.
I could go on and on. But Vanguard really nailed raiding. Our EQ2 side of the guild has mostly returned to Vanguard because of the raiding experience. Nothing is a standard tank and spank and success against the Bosses can come through multiple different approaches.
What you describe there is a pretty standard raid composition. Of course it can differ depend on the encounter itself, and you want as many different class as possible within that 18 since each class, or even sub-variant brings something different and extra to the table.
I cant say much about raiding, because so far my story with raids has been a long story of failures and seldom successes.
But yes, you bring 18 people in 3 groups - 24 in 4 groups against some special mobs (those are not in the general raid area APW / Ancient Portware House). Usually one has more people; the others have to stick around and be exchanged when the group progresses to the dungeon (APW, again for those special mobs its different).
And I too think your numbers are about correct. Classes that are needed in raids are, in my experience, so far:
- Tanks - it really doesnt matter at all which one, Warrior, Paladin or Dread Knight, just as long as they are in top gear with maximized Mitigation and Hitpoints. Even Evasion is rather secondary.
- Monks - I have no idea how to work without one. Absolutely required for pulls. Forget about Disciples, they cant pull as well as Monks. Or Necromancers - theres just not enough fake in their deaths, believe me.
- Bard - Insane dps increase. At least two of them for the two dps group. Another for the tank group would be nice as well.
- Cleric - probably best healer for your melee dps group, thanks to his Ward gets hardly ever wounded himself, can set a good base "layer of healing" with their unproblematic heal over time spells for the tanks.
- Shaman - large palette of buffs and extras and another healer. Sadly often didnt had one so I dont know more yet.
- Disciple - best single target healer, and therefore ideal for the tank group.
- Blood Mage - can take 15% of the damage from the main tank (needs HP gear!), that alone makes him practically a musthave. Also can deal best dps of any healer, can set up the strongest ingame heal over time spell for the main tank, etc, etc. Can just as well have two of them.
- Sorcerer - best dps in game, especially with Chaos Volley. Has a mana problem, though, without enough mana regen.
- Psion - another energy regen buff, best CC when possible to use.
- Necromancer - Their special meat buff is an absolutely unavoidable musthave for the tanks.
- Ranger, Druid, Rogue - more dps, I guess. Ranger buffs for crits are really nice, and Druid/Rogue are close in Sorcerer dps, or so I've been told.
The numbers you sketched out in your OP are pretty close to the mark. I raid regularly with my guild and typically we have 2 tanks, 5 healers, rest dps. 3 Bards is a big + (1 in each grp). A psi is also handy to have, if only for the mana regen buff that allows the bards to remove a rest or 2 from their songs and the short duration AE mezz that gives the bards a bit of breathing time when locking down adds.