Howdy, Stranger!
It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!
Quick Links
What is griefing in P v P??
JBO1
Member Posts: 277
Okay there is a discussion or rather flame war going on over on the Blizzard P v P boards. Someone basicaly was complaining on a person griefing them during an attack. I saw the video and do not have any idea what he is talking about...it's P v P how can you grief in P v P?? P v E I can see that...Isn't P v P a free for all no matter what your level...you play P v P you take your chances...or am I missing something??
Comments
Griefing can mean a lot of different things. Like camping someone's corpse and killing them before they can obtain their gear (this problem was mostly eliminated by the "Ghost Corpse Run.") You can repeatedly kill the same person over and over and over.
But I know what you are talking about on the WoW boards, that guy was just being an ass. He was feeling bad that he kept getting killed and felt it unfair that he couldn't kill the other person, so he decided to complain about it.
People like that need to just go to the PvE server and not have to worry about it. Some are mature enough to handle dying once or twice on a PvP server, and some aren't.
"There are three types of people in this world. Those who can count, and those who can't. Which one are you?" I have no idea why I added this, just thought I would.
_______________________________
If you get up one more time than you fall down, you will make it through.
from what i hear people complain about on the boards it would be people who are lvl 50 just running around killing lvl 20's, or they would just sit in town, wait for people to come in and then kill them without warning.... alot of this happens with lvl 50's sitting in newbie towns for the opposing faction and just kill the quest NPC's and anything that happens to walk in
Griefing is a part of PvP and only o.0.'s cant accept it.
That guy was in desperate need of a PvE (carebear) server.
~FC
in answer to the post above my last one:
Being pwned by characters 2 times your level is another part of PvP... if you ever played AC on Darktide (PvPserver) then you probally were dead before you saw your character in game for the first time.
Some o.0.'s dont like being killed cause they are noobs. Think about it in the perspective of war. The American soldiers didn't not kill German soldiers because they weren't generals. To win a war you must defeat the opposition, even if it is much weaker than you. If someone has a problem with griefing, they should just leave town for a while, maybe log on as another character for an hour or 2. Or they could do what most o.0.'s choose to do and that is spam their guild or general chat for some lv 50s to come and kill the "griefer.""
I hate o.0.s and i hate the noobs that are for sure going to be o.0.'s later on (not all noobs do, just some, and its pretty evident if they will, like in this case)
~FC
~FC
______________________________________
Badmouthing second-rate MMORPGs since 1998
Gandalf: "JOO SHALL NOT PASS!"
______________________________________
Badmouthing second-rate MMORPGs since 1998
Gandalf: "JOO SHALL NOT PASS!"
Avatar from www.Squidi.net
People sharing FC's attitude are why pvp will never be considered anything more than something a couple of deviant asshats with severe social problems do, and will remain relegated to the redheaded stepchild server.
If you drive everyone off before they get a chance to have fun in a pvp environment, that's that many fewer people that will pipe up to advocate pvp in future games. Most likely they'll be begging for NO pvp, as all they know of pvp was some illiterate jackoff that killed them as they were loading, and sent them an illegible tell about how they are ghey, and got pwnd. Most likely they say screw this, never come back, and that's one more person against pvp. While self-cannabilism might provide some tasty snacks in the short term, in the long run, it will kill you.
-------
I was never what you wanted, I could never never please.
I swallowed all our sorrow in the midst of my disease.
All my fortunes, all my gains, all the battles I have won...
Now collapsing like the rain, I stand alone, your only son...
Take some solace in these words, take notice of this place.
Hollow whispers that they are, like the wind upon my face.
Sing softly in my ear and look at me with wonder.
I will try to ease your fear as the darkness pulls you under.
Either that, or I Ganked one of them on the WoW PvP server.
Honestly, I have no idea what makes the Mods go Ban Happy. While I've only noticed two of mine being banned (hey, there could be more, I don't often go back to re-read my own posts) I do know this: What I wrote was entirely correct, even if it DID get banned.
Let's see if a more PC version will make it past them:
The term "Carebear" is annoying.
Complaining about griefing on a server dedicated to PvP is illogical.
________________________________
They care. We don't. They win.
There is a difference between griefing and PKing though. A level 50 owning the same level 5 constantly in a newbie hunting ground is griefing. A level 50 taking out a group of level 20s in a mid-level hunting ground or in a contested area is PKing.
Pretty much, if theres no point to you killing someone much weaker than yourself other than its an ego-boost, than its griefing. Its never griefing if a noobie attacks you first though, or taunts you or pretty much digs his own grave.
And if a noobie in a low level hunting area asks someone to "Please stop" and the person just finds this more of a reason to kill him, than that is definetly griefing.
______________________________________
Badmouthing second-rate MMORPGs since 1998
Gandalf: "JOO SHALL NOT PASS!"
______________________________________
Badmouthing second-rate MMORPGs since 1998
Gandalf: "JOO SHALL NOT PASS!"
Avatar from www.Squidi.net
el_slacko;
I would politely suggest that the only reason people play PvP Servers is for "ego-boosting" purposes. I think it's prima-facie that merely being on a PvP server indicates that you want to victimize those weaker than yourself. Is there any other reason for bullying others, except to boost the ego of the bully?
Let's consider. WoW already has consensual dueling/raids. So anyone interested in a "fair" fight can easily get one on a PvE server. So why would anyone play full PvP? Well, they'll usually tell you it's about "realism" or something, but the bottom line is: they don't want a fair fight. They want to Gank people who have no chance of fighting back.
Let me ask: what personality traits define a person who gets an ego-boost from victimizing people in an online game? Would you say that Maturity or Rational Thinking is high on the list?
So, let's take your hypothetical Level 50 who's spam-ganking a level 5. Who's to blame? That's right- nobody. The level 5 is there for the exact same reason as the level 50- he wants to gank those weaker than himself. The only difference is that the level 5 guy isn't strong enough yet to be much of a threat to anyone. You can bet that the moment he's level 50 himself, he'll be right there in the newbie zone, slaughtering the NEW generation of level 5's.
If your hypothetical Level 5 guy was interested in "fair", he'd be on the PvE server. But he's not. So I shed no tears for anything that happens to him, because odds are that he'll do the same thing or worse to everyone he meets once he's high enough level to do so.
________________________________
They care. We don't. They win.
Bleh, I dont understand the mechanics of PvP enough yet. Can you PvP on the non-pvp servers other than dueling? How do you do a pvp raid there? bleh, i think ill make a seperate post about it.
______________________________________
Badmouthing second-rate MMORPGs since 1998
Gandalf: "JOO SHALL NOT PASS!"
Avatar from www.Squidi.net
______________________________________
Badmouthing second-rate MMORPGs since 1998
Gandalf: "JOO SHALL NOT PASS!"
Avatar from www.Squidi.net
/shrug
In all the years of playing on pvp servers, I have yet to attack anyone that wasn't in my level range. I've killed a few that either A) Attacked me en masse, or
Got caught by aoe damage when I was fighting someone else. I don't think I've killed many afkers either, though if you go afk in a non safe area on a pvp server, you pretty much can expect to die, same as you would on a pve server. Anyway, point is just because some people are jackoffs, doesn't automatically mean all of them are. As for why I play on a pvp server. Simply put, it's more exciting than playing on a pve server where killing mobs acts as a sleep aid, and I can't reach out and slap someone for mouthing off, or what have you. Of course crushing newbs underfoot doesn't really ellicit much excitement, hence I don't do it. Add to that the fact that I think encouraging people to play on pvp servers is a good thing, so making sure they have a bad experience 3 seconds out the gate is counterproductive to getting more people hooked on pvp.
-------
I was never what you wanted, I could never never please.
I swallowed all our sorrow in the midst of my disease.
All my fortunes, all my gains, all the battles I have won...
Now collapsing like the rain, I stand alone, your only son...
Take some solace in these words, take notice of this place.
Hollow whispers that they are, like the wind upon my face.
Sing softly in my ear and look at me with wonder.
I will try to ease your fear as the darkness pulls you under.
Well comming from Lineage 2 All I can say is having people be able to attack anyone anytime anywhere is simply just stupid and frustrating. I can understand if you walk into enemy territory and you get attacked thats different but getting ganked by a lvl 50 when you are lvl 10 or something is dumb (But part of the game).
They should have an honor system or something where if you are lvl 50 and you kill anyone lower then lvl 25-30 you lose honor and have a "Bounty Hunter" option to have a bounty put on your head. So who ever that lvl 50 kills can choose to have a bounty put on said players head and anyone can take a bounty quest to kill him and collect money equal to the bounties dishonor lvl....
Other then that I think there will always be gank fests on lower lvls
---------------------------------
"Those who brake the ninja code and rules of this world are called trash. But you know what? Those who don't take care of their comrades are even lower than trash." - Hatake Kakashi
glad to see some people agree with me, if not directly.
i totally agree with Weapon, noobs come to PvP servers because they want to level up and have a gankfest.
~FC
okay where do I begin. Because of miss conceptions people in this thread for some reson beleave greafing is the task of staying at someone's body and killing them over and over again. This is not true, normally in pvp you simply raid the body and take what evers on it.
What greifing is the act of removeing a factions ncp's or services on purpous to prevent access to the area. One of the tactics that have been adopted is to kill the zepline sales ncp to prevent traveling between key points, they do this continuesly and then launch and attack on the area because alot of people can't be bothered to go to travel to the area on mounts or foot. It also annoyed the higher level players when they want to do a quest, but because of the location of the npc is in the outer town area's it gets hit alot.
In summary greifing is killing ncp's continously just to cause annoyance. This is caused by the fact that they are placed in contested area's. I have placed links to the beta forum to show you examples of this.
Small amount of greaf reports are actaully people waiting to kill you again at you body, most of the time it is people killing you on your way or people killing ncp's. This is a or has been identified by dev's as a bug and they are looking for ways to fix the problem.
However I would have to agree with the beta testers that there is annoyance factor, these tactics are used in real life. It may annoy you but consideing the nature of the game, kills, r kills. War is war. HEHEHEHHE...
Also another factor is that if you kill someone out of a certian level range you get little or no experience. Playing these games you know there are jerks out there or someone letting of some steam. But the name os the game on pvp is to kill then enemy. To a small exstent, griefing limit movments of enemy and the fact is every greaf prevents good information gathering. Plus it's war zone, like all war zones you take what ya get.
links:
http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?FN=wow-general&T=157756&P=2
http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?FN=wow-general&T=145712&P=3
P.s, die horde die. LOL!
J.d.slanger-everything apeares to be a scam in this world when you first see it does'nt it. <img src="http://www.seven-emperors.com/OBJECTS/BANNERS/bannerJOHNNIE.jpg"/>;
J.d.slanger-everything apeares to be a scam in this world when you first see it does'nt it.
In a faction war scenario, anyone that strolls out into the warzone is free game, regardless of level. Like DAoC, for example. If you're out in the frontier, then you are free game as far as I'm concerned.
In my examples, I was referring to an open pvp system, such as Darktide in AC, or Sullon Zek in EQ, where high level people would hang out in the newb areas, and gank people. It was worse in AC, as you could be killed literally before you even finished zoning in on your end, same as with SWG originally.
And griefing, for whatever it's worth, is more than just killing the npc's to cause annoyance. Compared to some stuff I've seen, that's pretty lightweight. I've seen high level people go into newb dungeons, and train the entire thing to the front of the dungeon, effectively killing all the newbs, I've seen people corpse camped until everything they had poofed, I once had some guys twink come up while I was engaged with a mob, and start chain stunning me, which of course caused me to die at the hands of the mob I was fighting, and thus, lose xp. Plenty of times in EQ I saw Ogres sit in a doorway, and block people from coming or going. So yeah, griefing takes any number of forms, although in reality, it's worst on non-pvp servers, because then I could grief you all day long, and short of siccing the CSRs on me, you'd have no option to retaliate.
-------
I was never what you wanted, I could never never please.
I swallowed all our sorrow in the midst of my disease.
All my fortunes, all my gains, all the battles I have won...
Now collapsing like the rain, I stand alone, your only son...
Take some solace in these words, take notice of this place.
Hollow whispers that they are, like the wind upon my face.
Sing softly in my ear and look at me with wonder.
I will try to ease your fear as the darkness pulls you under.
J.d.slanger-everything apeares to be a scam in this world when you first see it does'nt it. <img src="http://www.seven-emperors.com/OBJECTS/BANNERS/bannerJOHNNIE.jpg"/>;
J.d.slanger-everything apeares to be a scam in this world when you first see it does'nt it.
People aren't bored with WoW yet. About 4 - 6 months out from release, once people have maxed out their levels is when you'll really start seeing the high levels bottomfeeding on the newbs because they're bored. Also, when you have everyone and their mother in the game, the dynamic changes, as 1) the betatesters are usually a bit higher class of folks, and 2) the community is a lot smaller so people stepping out of line, and being pricks, are more likely to get slapped down fast. This will be more prevelant on the open pvp server, rather than the faction war server.
-------
I was never what you wanted, I could never never please.
I swallowed all our sorrow in the midst of my disease.
All my fortunes, all my gains, all the battles I have won...
Now collapsing like the rain, I stand alone, your only son...
Take some solace in these words, take notice of this place.
Hollow whispers that they are, like the wind upon my face.
Sing softly in my ear and look at me with wonder.
I will try to ease your fear as the darkness pulls you under.
HEHEH good point, but like all games, this is a problem. How ever the reason people keep comeing for more is because there is alot of content. they have the hero class to come out, the new hunter class. More quests the raide section won't be seen until retail and alot of instance dongeons to visit. there is war story action going on and the story of warcraft is taken further.
That is how blizzard have solves this. If you lookat the bullitin bords, there are plenty of players how have reached the level cap but they keep playing, wonder why. Coldmeat personally I think you have a grudge against WOW.
I would personally put the same question to any other game you have played, when you get to the level caps, why do you still play. Why do you still play eq if you play it. that game still has the same problem and they have built up the story line to comensate for it. If eq was such a great game why are they release a seqaule. That is my question and a valid on. My answer would be to create more content for it's player to explore and never get borde and to keep it's costimer base. In other words a matter of money.
J.d.slanger-everything apeares to be a scam in this world when you first see it does'nt it. <img src="http://www.seven-emperors.com/OBJECTS/BANNERS/bannerJOHNNIE.jpg"/>;
J.d.slanger-everything apeares to be a scam in this world when you first see it does'nt it.
No grudge against WoW, just seen one too many good games ruined by bad players, and I see a lot of people saying pvp sucks, only sociopaths are into pvp, etc. because they got chain ganked by a bored high level person. Now maybe WoW will keep people interested enough that the high level people aren't out there making a nuisance of themselves in newb areas, and maybe it won't. The cynical voice in my head says that a small percentage of people out to ruin the game for everyone will indeed ruin what would be an otherwise fun game. As for me, it'll be a miracle if I can get my dwarf past the entrance to Ironforge, as I was blown away the first time I stood in front of it.
As to what I do after maxing out, or getting bored with a particular character, I either make an alt, or I quit.
Right now, I'm not playing any MMO's. I've gone back to playing single player rpgs and posting here until WoW/EQ2/DnL/PotBS/Matrix Online come out.
-------
I was never what you wanted, I could never never please.
I swallowed all our sorrow in the midst of my disease.
All my fortunes, all my gains, all the battles I have won...
Now collapsing like the rain, I stand alone, your only son...
Take some solace in these words, take notice of this place.
Hollow whispers that they are, like the wind upon my face.
Sing softly in my ear and look at me with wonder.
I will try to ease your fear as the darkness pulls you under.
Okay I don't know really anything about P v P servers I usually try to stay away from them, it's just not my style. But there seems to be two sides to this argument as I read all these posts.
1st side: The hardcore P vP person who sees the game as all gloves off full out brawl, no rules...that seems like it would get boring after a while without some limitations
2nd side: Players who want to see more limitations to the hardcore crowd and want more honorable play...that seems a little unrealistic too because it's P v P...if you limit what you kill why would it be P v P??
Ahhhh! this is so confusing...
I just don't understand still how you can grief in P v P....
Why not just build a newbie player area in an area deep in enemy territory and put tough guards on them...and put limitations on how many times you kill NPC's.
I'm glad I'm not a Blizzard developer this seems like a no win situation the more I read and understand...or lack there of...???
cool, see where yuour coming from. I also made a post a few secs ago on the whole socialism thing about ga,meing in another thread, fee free to read it. I will also start a thread about it because alot of epople seem to have places there annoyance about the games features inb the wrong place. The thread I comented on was the farming thread.
also, since your playing rpg's I was wondering what game you were playing or what game you recomend. IOne of my female friends don't like onliners and she liked off line rpg,s but I have'nt got any more in my folder so I don't know what to recomend to her.
also, nice call on the offline online thing. If you waiting for a game nice one and I totally understand you feelings about it. I was trying to show two other guys it's not the end of the world and what they are describing is not as bad as they are saying. Eithier that or I must have been playing the wrong game or version of. LOL!
J.d.slanger-everything apeares to be a scam in this world when you first see it does'nt it. <img src="http://www.seven-emperors.com/OBJECTS/BANNERS/bannerJOHNNIE.jpg"/>;
J.d.slanger-everything apeares to be a scam in this world when you first see it does'nt it.
I find this, irritating. I would play on PvP for 2 reasons. Better AIs and a realistic challenge. However, I won't play on PvP because of people who believe that quote.
If I enter an open area (available for PvP) then I takes my risks. If I die, so be it. If I group with someone and that person back stabs me, then so be it. It happens, that is the point of PvP. Thats part of the challenge.
If however, I'm out in the open and I get killed by a player x2 higher than me who then camps my corpse or my respawn point for 30+ minutes, thats griefing and they need to seek help.
If my group mate who just stabbed me in the back is playing a Paladin type character, then I have problems with THIS (provided I'm also playing a light race).
Skirnir; Dwarven mage (PvP Server)
Veni Vidi Castratavi Illegitmos
----------------------------------------
My dog barks some. Mentally you picture my dog, but I have not told you the type of dog which I have. Perhaps you even picture Toto, from "The Wizard of Oz." But I warn you, my dog is always with me.
________________________________
They care. We don't. They win.
________________________________
They care. We don't. They win.
You think venders should be invinceable? That's a strange idea. I think it is cool that you can just stroll into town and turn to the nearest NPC and hit him. Adds to the immersion of the game. It would be gay to see a screenshot of a raid and you see like 50 undead and 5 or 6 scattered Night Elf NPCs.
I know I want to run around killing everything in a town if I go somewhere with enemies. Not just kill PCs then sit there starinng down a NPC knowing well that I can't hit 'em.
_______________________________
If you get up one more time than you fall down, you will make it through.