Originally posted by admiralnlson Many WoW people don't realize there are other games out there. And even if they did, the "effort" required to move a group of friends from a game to another is just too big.
Way to pigeon hole people in one sweeping statement, bravo!!
As a recent poll on this very forum attested (..and i am sure if you actually asked a few players rather than just making assumptions), a high percentage of people that play WoW have either come from other MMO's or have tried others and come back again. It is all too easy to drop labels into a thread like "noobs", "kids", "lazy MMO'ers" but it still doesn't take away the fact that the game is good, for whatever reason people choose and that is why it is played by so many.
lol, you are on an mmorpg forum. Of course, people who come on mmorpg.com and play WoW have tried other games ! But I can assure that the ones who don't bother going on forums like this one, and who obviously represent the biggest part of the player base, never played another MMO or - as I said earlier - came back to WoW because, for most of them, their friends/wife/whatever wouldn't try another game.
Originally posted by admiralnlson lol, you are on an mmorpg forum. Of course, people who come on mmorpg.com and play WoW have tried other games ! But I can assure that the ones who don't bother going on forums like this one, and who obviously represent the biggest part of the player base, never played another MMO or - as I said earlier - came back to WoW because, for most of them, their friends/wife/whatever wouldn't try another game.
Erm, yes we are on an MMORPG forum, well spotted
You do also realise that people that don't play MMO's can use these forums too? You do understand that people can 'not' use an MMORPG forum and still have played other MMO's? You know that we are not some sort of elitist MMO clique and only we could have played something else?
I don't now the figures, i can only go by what i read and hear from other players so i am not going to get into a debate about it, but you also don't know for a 'fact' how many people have or have not played other MMO's so to 'assure' me of anything is just opinion not fact. It just seems to fit some peoples agenda to play down WoW's popularity and put it down to a load of 'carebears' or 'noobs' playing the game to account for it's popularity rather than just admit that it is a good game played by a wide range of people with varying experience.
Way to "keep an open mind"!
It must be Thursday, i never could get the hang of Thursdays.
I enjoyed the first 10 hours of WoW, and I enjoyed the first 10 hours of a lot of other MMOGs as well.
Liking WoW doesn't mean you hate all other games, and liking other games (or wishing for something different) doesn't mean you have to hate WoW.
That isn't ridiculous, as I said that's only about me. There is no standard for human beings, everybody is different. So personal preferences can't be ridiculous, you might disagree with them, but they are as normal as any other preference.
Sorry, I just heard a news story about a couple in the UK where the woman wears a dog collar and a leash, which her boyfriend holds everywhere they go. (they were thrown off a bus in a recent story for being freaks)
Personal preference, yes. Normal? Absolutely not. Normal is a set of standard behavior that society pre-defines, and you can definitely find yourself outside of the range and be considered ridiculous.
But there aren't any games that would stand outside the range, and you are correct, one person's favorite is another person's hatred. No big deal, we all play what we enjoy. I enjoyed WOW until I achieved all that I could, then it was time to move on. Its been my pattern with all games, and I'm sure it will continue.
Hmm... The actions aren't normal, but the preference is actually very normal! That woman is happy with that, and being happy is human nature. It only appears.. weird to us because we aren't like them. Comparable to most EVE players not understanding what people see in WoW.
That woman is a Goth. She isn't happy with anything. She is perma-depressed.
Many WoW people don't realize there are other games out there. And even if they did, the "effort" required to move a group of friends from a game to another is just too big.
Way to pigeon hole people in one sweeping statement, bravo!!
As a recent poll on this very forum attested (..and i am sure if you actually asked a few players rather than just making assumptions), a high percentage of people that play WoW have either come from other MMO's or have tried others and come back again. It is all too easy to drop labels into a thread like "noobs", "kids", "lazy MMO'ers" but it still doesn't take away the fact that the game is good, for whatever reason people choose and that is why it is played by so many.
lol, you are on an mmorpg forum. Of course, people who come on mmorpg.com and play WoW have tried other games !
But I can assure that the ones who don't bother going on forums like this one, and who obviously represent the biggest part of the player base, never played another MMO or - as I said earlier - came back to WoW because, for most of them, their friends/wife/whatever wouldn't try another game.
There's a lot of truth to this. I know many older adults who play WOW. They spend no time visiting gaming forums of any kind, have played perhaps one other MMO, and are very difficult to convince to switch to new games. Once they find one they like, they tend to stick with it for years, as it takes them quite a bit longer to burn through the content due to their more casual play styles. Also, I think they stick with it longer because they aren't always trying to "beat" these games, they seem to be more along for the ride.
Unlike me, who is constantly seeking the holy grail (the perfect game), which of course, I'll never find.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
WoW is so successful because you can play it on a low end PC and it has a low learning curve.
WoW does have a large amount of older players (50+) and most of them don't have new PCs. I'm not quite 50, but I'm pushing it and I don't care to pay for a PC that can play most of the new MMOs.
WoW is so succefull cause theres to many kids playing MMOs lol, the easy grinding and childish graphics were the main atraction.. If you think im being sarcastic or something.. Go wonder why WoW has the most immature community of mmos
Originally posted by jason_webb i can only go by what i read and hear from other players [...]
Way to "keep an open mind"!
I do the exact same thing, and yet I see totally different things. I guess we are both close-minded, then?
Anyway, there's no point in going on with this debate since there isn't one. The fact is Wow-haters, like me, actually don't hate WoW players, Blizzard or even WoW. We hate that other companies don't make an original game for us who want something else. Then, we see WoW lovers - or at least people we blindly assimilate as WoW lovers - post on the forums dedicated to new MMOs (for instance) and ruin it with comments like "WoW is so better than this" or "There is PvE instancing ! It's not like WoW, sucks!" (*), fearing that it might influence game developers even more to copy WoW and never produce the game we desperately want (see my sig) and will gladly pay heavily for.
(*) : I did that too apparently. I didn't realize this thread was in the WoW section :S
P.S.: about the "I assure you". Obviously, it was an opinion, not a fact. Every single post in this forum expresses an opinion. I see many people here trying to pick on this to try and escape the conversation. You've got to understand that not everyone is English native and foreigners might not be used to say "I think" a the beginning of every sentence ^^
It's easy to learn, has low system requirements, has engaging gameplay from the start (none of this "wait until level xx, it gets good there), and it has a successful marketing campaign.
Depth counts for nothing in this industry unless you can make good first impressions to keep people around for it. Just enough depth with a good hook makes WoW a successful game.
Given a choice between a sexy chick (or man, if you're a girl) or an overweight nerdy girl (again, guy, if you're a girl), what would you choose at first glance? It's like that Wii vs. PS3 commercial spoof. Easy instant action or complicated raw potential?
There's a reason the Wii is never in stock while 360's and PS3's collect dust on store shelves.
There's also a reason why WoW has the most subs while others hardly have a fraction of that.
thats true , low system requirments are very important to an the success of an mmo .vanguard made the huge mistake of aiming its game only at people with high spec machines . not everyone uses thier pc as a games machine .
theres also the option of playing pvp or pve servers . lots of games assume incorrectly that people only want pve play or decide to limit thier pvp to designated areas . while this is also true of warcraft (you cant gank in enamy contorlled territory) theres the option of having a fight in any contested territory which is most of the game area .
in game eccomics are crucial too . city of heroes is a great game but it lacks this one basic element . the result is you dont feel paticulary invested in the game . its a nice one to play for the odd month but not long term .
battle grounds . to my knowlage very few other mmos offer anything like the instanced pvp areas of warcraft like alterac valley that allow 80 players to go head to head .
theres many other things i could mention , decent instances , interesting quests , well thought out proffessions etc
the fact is warcraft is the template for a successful mmorpg . developers would be very wise to learn from it and build on its ideas ( player built communitys and more meaningful world pvp are missing from wow ) . i know this could bring about accusations of wow-clone etc , but this has always happened in the game industry . essentially half life 2 is a clone of the original doom .
City of Heroes is unique in it's genre. World of Warcraft is simply one of the very best in it's. Having said that,I enjoy playing both of these PtP MMOs!
Let us try this again. The 5 main attributes are of greater importance than the numerous features influenced by the 5 attributes. Therefore the others are of "lesser" importance to your overall survival.
You haven't played the game in over a year if you still believe that. I doubt there's a single player today who believes that Strength, Agility, Stamina, Intellect and Spirit are the most important attributes on their character. More important are things like Attack Power, Physical Damage, Ranged Damage, Spell Damage, Healing, Critical Strike, Resilience. Yes, some of those things are affected by the fab 5 and yes everyone tries to get as much of those 5 as they can, but bonus modifiers directly to the other attributes are ESSENTIAL and you can't just discount them.
Pick a class and tell me what 2 or 3 of the most important attributes are for that class. For every class, there might be 1 of those main 5, but the others will be one of the ones I mentioned. They are NOT lesser in any way and in fact some are MORE important than the 5.
Let's just take one class for an example, the Hunter for instance. A year ago, Agility and Stamina is what everyone went for, but now Attack Power is on par with Agility and more important than Stamina. And if you PvP than Resilience is absolutly crucial and more important than Stamina as well. And if you're a PvE kind of guy, I would say that Critical Strike is more important than Stamina as your pet will maintain aggro for the most part and you're just looking to do as much damage as possible.
one thing that is never mentioned when coming to wows success:
They releases in the beginning of the biggest economic growth period in history. They were the nr 1 MMO as more ppl could afford internet; computers and so on. Also other games have done good bc of this . Its just that the p2p businiss model make them cash in on the sucess over and over again.
Its also so that with the economic boom computers were going from expensive to dirt cheap so that also contribute to the sucess.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
A WOW clone in a different setting is actually not a bad idea.
See World of Starcraft in a year or two
/agreed.
Although I don't think it will really be just a WoW clone. I'm not sure what Blizzard will do to make it different and there will certainly be a lot of similarities, but I think there will be a few new twists as well. Blizzard is smart enough to know they can't just put a few new graphics on the thing and call it a different game and get people to play it. It's gonna be interesting to see what they come up with.
First off, let me say this: Yes, I've played WoW. I had a 70 Druid on ShadowMoon
WoW is successful because
1) Accessible- you can play it on a commodore 64, practically :P
2) Publicity- "Make Love Not Warcraft", TV ads, etc.
3) Easy to learn
Among many things, obviously, but I think these are the big 3.
WoW is a fun game, there's no doubt about that, but it's not the end-all and be-all of games. It attracts a lot of new gamers who don't know a Scrapper from a Dervish, and that's all they know. There are people who have tried other games, and still like WoW the best, and that's fine. Please, though, don't claim WoW is the "best" game out there if you haven't played a few other MMO's at least. (More than just for a few hours, too)
To those who only know WoW I suggest this:
Try City of Heroes. Amazing game with the best character customization of any MMO out there, and an amazing community to boot.
Try LOTRO. The World is drop-dead Gorgeous and will be a thrill to any fantasy fan.
Try Guild Wars. Free != Bad. It's got great cross-classing and no monthly fee.
And finally, don't try The Matrix Online. Trust me, you do NOT want to go there.
A WOW clone in a different setting is actually not a bad idea.
See World of Starcraft in a year or two
See: 'Starcraft: Orcs in Space.'
People keep making the same mistakes when it comes to Blizzard. Blizzard keeps making them look stupid.
In every country and in every age, the priest has been hostile to liberty. He is always in alliance with the despot, abetting his abuses in return for protection to his own.
WoW is a fun game, there's no doubt about that, but it's not the end-all and be-all of games. It attracts a lot of new gamers who don't know a Scrapper from a Dervish, and that's all they know. There are people who have tried other games, and still like WoW the best, and that's fine. Please, though, don't claim WoW is the "best" game out there if you haven't played a few other MMO's at least. (More than just for a few hours, too)
Well, I would claim WOW is the best for all the MMOs I have played. That started with kingdom of Drakkar, which is a pre-cursor to real MMOs (still using TELNET technology if the young people here even know what it is).
I beta-tested UO & EQ. Join EQ for a few years since launch. And I have pretty much play (or try them all). Games I have played/tried include CoH, EQ2 (big bore), GW (bought it), 9Dragon, Zu Online (very much a WOW clone in a different setting), Eve Online (very nice ... I would continue to play this if it is less hardcore PvP), AO (very dated, I can't get pass the graphics but I will try again when its new rendering engine is released), Tabular Rasa (it can't decide whether it is a shooter or a RPG) and a few more.
WOW is the most assessible, the most polished, easy-to-get into and the most fun quest grinding.
I am not a big PvP player so I am not judging any of these games by the PvP gameplay.
I haven't tried any of the pirate games because I am not a big fan of pirates. I will try jumpgate evoluation when it comes out.
I have now played this WoW thing for a month and I was completely disappointed. I have been dumbfounded that 10-million people play this... this very basic very simplistic, very slow, very clunky game.
I have played a fair number of MMORPGs and have played games dating back to my single digit years on Amigas and PCs. Everything from Black Crypt, Eye of the Beholder series, D&D ones on up through Asheron's Call, Anarchy Online, EQ, AC2, City of Heroes, Tablua Rasa and a few others I have likely forgotten... The OP's question is very much on my mind. "Why is this game so huge in population??"
I think it comes down to a few things. Most of them being right place at the right time. The computers imporved between the AC/EQ years and 2004 to a great extent and WoW was able to capture the enlarged market at exactly the right time. Far fewer households had high end computers that could handle the MMOs and even less had the internet connections that could play them well. The early 2000's replaced the T1 lines that I was brought up on with the cable modem and the price dropped into the range of less wel-to-do families.
At the same time the computers fell into the range of the above average household. Now at that time the console nintendo crowd was just learning about computer games. The nintendo crowd was used to crappy graphics and slow clunky game play. WoW was perfect for them because it offers both in abundance.
The children are drawn to WoW because as someone said before, this is geared toward their level and mentality. The cartoons appeal to the kids and the very basic style of game play appeals to their mindset.
WoW does have a few things going for it. It seems to be fairly bug free, sort of, but that can be expected fo a game that is a half decade out of date. And it has lots of very simple quests. That is it. That is the only two things WoW has going for it except its population, which is nothing more than popular for the sake of being popular.
It did a good job of plagerizing the best parts of other games and combining it into a largescale game for low end computers. It has a large seemless world and lots of different loot (Taken from Asheron's Call, but not done early as well.) It has the slot-car style characters that have very limited powers, very limited abilities and very limited control over the growth and direction of the character - all of which were favored by the EQ crowd.
It is a slow game and it keep the player on a very narrow path (critters a level or two below give no XP, critters a level or two above kill you in a second or two) That is a misyake in my opinion, but seems to be liked by the average casual player. i.e. they log on, they read their next mission objective, they run across the world at a snail's pace for a mindbogglingily long time, they go do the thing it said in the logbook and run back across the world at a snail's pace to tell some schmo that they have finished.
But the most important thing that WoW seems to offer is No Penalties Just All Free Gifts All The Time! Wow is an infomercial in an MMO. There is nothing but an endless stream of free bamboo steamers and bonus gifts if you call in the next ten minutes.
It is the Budweiser or online games. It is the Nike of RPGs... WoW is the perfect game for the basic ordinary average player. It isn't actually good. It has a very bland flavor, fall apart if used in an exercise, but it has great marketing and is popular for the sake of being popular.
I have actually become happy to see that WoW isn't that good. I was a little worried that WoW had somehow done something to an extent that other games would be hard pressed to compete. It hasn't. It has a basic level of polish and a few quests, datz it! Which is GREAT, that means that any company that will actually finish a project, add some polish BEFOREthey release it to the market has the potential to have a much better game on their hands!
"The reality of the poor in America isn't the difference between The Haves and The Have Nots, it is the difference between The Haves and The Have Lots."
I have now played this WoW thing for a month and I was completely disappointed. I have been dumbfounded that 10-million people play this... this very basic very simplistic, very slow, very clunky game. I have played a fair number of MMORPGs and have played games dating back to my single digit years on Amigas and PCs. Everything from Black Crypt, Eye of the Beholder series, D&D ones on up through Asheron's Call, Anarchy Online, EQ, AC2, City of Heroes, Tablua Rasa and a few others I have likely forgotten... The OP's question is very much on my mind. "Why is this game so huge in population??" I think it comes down to a few things. Most of them being right place at the right time. The computers imporved between the AC/EQ years and 2004 to a great extent and WoW was able to capture the enlarged market at exactly the right time. Far fewer households had high end computers that could handle the MMOs and even less had the internet connections that could play them well. The early 2000's replaced the T1 lines that I was brought up on with the cable modem and the price dropped into the range of less wel-to-do families. At the same time the computers fell into the range of the above average household. Now at that time the console nintendo crowd was just learning about computer games. The nintendo crowd was used to crappy graphics and slow clunky game play. WoW was perfect for them because it offers both in abundance. The children are drawn to WoW because as someone said before, this is geared toward their level and mentality. The cartoons appeal to the kids and the very basic style of game play appeals to their mindset. WoW does have a few things going for it. It seems to be fairly bug free, sort of, but that can be expected fo a game that is a half decade out of date. And it has lots of very simple quests. That is it. That is the only two things WoW has going for it except its population, which is nothing more than popular for the sake of being popular. It did a good job of plagerizing the best parts of other games and combining it into a largescale game for low end computers. It has a large seemless world and lots of different loot (Taken from Asheron's Call, but not done early as well.) It has the slot-car style characters that have very limited powers, very limited abilities and very limited control over the growth and direction of the character - all of which were favored by the EQ crowd. It is a slow game and it keep the player on a very narrow path (critters a level or two below give no XP, critters a level or two above kill you in a second or two) That is a misyake in my opinion, but seems to be liked by the average casual player. i.e. they log on, they read their next mission objective, they run across the world at a snail's pace for a mindbogglingily long time, they go do the thing it said in the logbook and run back across the world at a snail's pace to tell some schmo that they have finished. But the most important thing that WoW seems to offer is No Penalties Just All Free Gifts All The Time! Wow is an infomercial in an MMO. There is nothing but an endless stream of free bamboo steamers and bonus gifts if you call in the next ten minutes. It is the Budweiser or online games. It is the Nike of RPGs... WoW is the perfect game for the basic ordinary average player. It isn't actually good. It has a very bland flavor, fall apart if used in an exercise, but it has great marketing and is popular for the sake of being popular. I have actually become happy to see that WoW isn't that good. I was a little worried that WoW had somehow done something to an extent that other games would be hard pressed to compete. It hasn't. It has a basic level of polish and a few quests, datz it! Which is GREAT, that means that any company that will actually finish a project, add some polish BEFOREthey release it to the market has the potential to have a much better game on their hands!
Maybe you could clarify the critter thign in your post for me. 2 levels below give no xp? 2 levels above annialate you? Are you talking about WOW or some other game?
I read in another post that you have only played starter areas and have never played a character past L20, but you are willing to condemn the whole game based on that experience alone???
That is not only ill informed commentary it is insulting to all of the other people that have put time into the game and appreciate it in all of it's forms.
On some of your specific points;
- Success was "right place at the right time", well that doesn't really fit as there were a lot of MMO's released around the same times and many more since, yet WoW is still up there. As for being "popular for the sake of being popular" well that may be true if it were a free game, but not that many people are going to throw away their cash just to say "i play warcraft!"
- Game has a "Childish mentality", well we have pretty much heard that from every negative post about WoW, but my experience and the age of the people i play alongside varies heavily from 20's up to 70's. It does have younger people playing, but the majority of players are 20's or above and i am guessing most would find that comment pretty insulting.
- "Plagerizing the best parts of other games", well to an extent that may be true, but i think that you will find that in any MMO on the market as they all get their ideas from somewhere. Whether it is any fantasy clone copying the ideas of Paper based D&D or EvE extending the ideas of 'Elite', they all get a little of something from somewhere, it is how well they produce that idea and move it forward.
- "Slow game, narrow path", if you had actually played the game for any length of time and maybe even got to the middle levels you would see that there is plenty of scope and different paths you can take to achieve the same goal. One of my guildies has just made L70, yet still hasn't been to three areas in the outlands, where as i had been to them all by that point, he just took the route of group levelling and instances, where as i soloed for the wider experience. I question your WoW experience again with your comments about XP and critters 2 levels above killing you?? Most MOB's up to 9 levels below will give XP and an experienced character will hit 4-5+ levels above himself quite easily.
I am sorry you don't enjoy the game, but most of your post is wildly innaccurate at the very least. You mentioned in one of your other posts about what a lot of games do well, but in all cases it was only one thing, WoW may not be the best game ever but it puts a lot of those good things from other games in one place for people to enjoy and a lot do.
You are of course allowed your opinion and i respect that, but i would have respected it a lot more if you had experienced the game as a whole and not just taken a small bite and thrown the whole thing away.
It must be Thursday, i never could get the hang of Thursdays.
mmh it is hard to say why wow is such a big succes
the game is easy to get into, pvp is nice, lots of way to custom your char,lots of quests and the quests aren't that hard to do, you can play it casual and hardcore, overall a nice community, lot's of dungeons and it is mostly fun to play in group, easy to get a group, ... so manny reasons why this is a good game
I'm not saying it is the best but it is a good game
I suscribed again last week, I didn't have played for a while. I tried a lot of other mmorpg's but i didn't like them so that's what I started again on wow
I've created a draenai shaman and it is fun ^^
------------------------------------------------------------------- waiting for ... nothing..
I do not play it anymore. But I might come back again. Like I do with other games. Here is why I think it's so successful.
Warcraft strategy games have a lot of fans around the world.
It has humor that others don't.
Don't need a super computer to play.
It's easy to play.
A lot of quests.
A lot of loot.
Open world and not instances.
Great population.
Fun PvP.
Nice rewards.
Not many rules to follow. Must be like this and that. If they wanna add something they can and it makes people happy.
It's all over the world, TV, Papers, Internet.
If you get tired of killing same old monster, then you can move to other place and it's new for you but same lvl. In other words not forced to kill same thing. It's all up to you.
Rank system.
US, EU, Asian market.
Played: From Earth & Beyond, Anarchy Online, Matrix Online, Star Wars Galaxies, World of Warcraft, Age of Conan, Tabula Rasa (Beta), EvE Online, City of Villians, Atlantica Online, Guild Wars, Lineage 2, Pirates of the Burning Sea, PlanetSide, RF Online, Second Life, Fallen Earth.
Comments
I agree with the OP.
No seriously, if you look at the choices he gave, its obvious which one he thinks is "right".
But I can assure that the ones who don't bother going on forums like this one, and who obviously represent the biggest part of the player base, never played another MMO or - as I said earlier - came back to WoW because, for most of them, their friends/wife/whatever wouldn't try another game.
---
Waiting for: GW2
*thumbs up*: GW, Eve(, WoW)
*thumbs down*: MO, GA, FE
Erm, yes we are on an MMORPG forum, well spotted
You do also realise that people that don't play MMO's can use these forums too? You do understand that people can 'not' use an MMORPG forum and still have played other MMO's? You know that we are not some sort of elitist MMO clique and only we could have played something else?
I don't now the figures, i can only go by what i read and hear from other players so i am not going to get into a debate about it, but you also don't know for a 'fact' how many people have or have not played other MMO's so to 'assure' me of anything is just opinion not fact. It just seems to fit some peoples agenda to play down WoW's popularity and put it down to a load of 'carebears' or 'noobs' playing the game to account for it's popularity rather than just admit that it is a good game played by a wide range of people with varying experience.
Way to "keep an open mind"!
It must be Thursday, i never could get the hang of Thursdays.
...
That's ridiculous.I enjoyed the first 10 hours of WoW, and I enjoyed the first 10 hours of a lot of other MMOGs as well.
Liking WoW doesn't mean you hate all other games, and liking other games (or wishing for something different) doesn't mean you have to hate WoW.
That isn't ridiculous, as I said that's only about me. There is no standard for human beings, everybody is different.
So personal preferences can't be ridiculous, you might disagree with them, but they are as normal as any other preference.
Sorry, I just heard a news story about a couple in the UK where the woman wears a dog collar and a leash, which her boyfriend holds everywhere they go. (they were thrown off a bus in a recent story for being freaks)
Personal preference, yes. Normal? Absolutely not. Normal is a set of standard behavior that society pre-defines, and you can definitely find yourself outside of the range and be considered ridiculous.
But there aren't any games that would stand outside the range, and you are correct, one person's favorite is another person's hatred. No big deal, we all play what we enjoy. I enjoyed WOW until I achieved all that I could, then it was time to move on. Its been my pattern with all games, and I'm sure it will continue.
Hmm... The actions aren't normal, but the preference is actually very normal! That woman is happy with that, and being happy is human nature. It only appears.. weird to us because we aren't like them. Comparable to most EVE players not understanding what people see in WoW.
That woman is a Goth. She isn't happy with anything. She is perma-depressed.
Way to pigeon hole people in one sweeping statement, bravo!!
As a recent poll on this very forum attested (..and i am sure if you actually asked a few players rather than just making assumptions), a high percentage of people that play WoW have either come from other MMO's or have tried others and come back again. It is all too easy to drop labels into a thread like "noobs", "kids", "lazy MMO'ers" but it still doesn't take away the fact that the game is good, for whatever reason people choose and that is why it is played by so many.
lol, you are on an mmorpg forum. Of course, people who come on mmorpg.com and play WoW have tried other games !
But I can assure that the ones who don't bother going on forums like this one, and who obviously represent the biggest part of the player base, never played another MMO or - as I said earlier - came back to WoW because, for most of them, their friends/wife/whatever wouldn't try another game.
There's a lot of truth to this. I know many older adults who play WOW. They spend no time visiting gaming forums of any kind, have played perhaps one other MMO, and are very difficult to convince to switch to new games. Once they find one they like, they tend to stick with it for years, as it takes them quite a bit longer to burn through the content due to their more casual play styles. Also, I think they stick with it longer because they aren't always trying to "beat" these games, they seem to be more along for the ride.
Unlike me, who is constantly seeking the holy grail (the perfect game), which of course, I'll never find.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
WoW is so successful because you can play it on a low end PC and it has a low learning curve.
WoW does have a large amount of older players (50+) and most of them don't have new PCs. I'm not quite 50, but I'm pushing it and I don't care to pay for a PC that can play most of the new MMOs.
WoW is successful cause it was made for the players when it first came out.
Now on the other hand - we see the game beeing made more to make money.
WoW is so succefull cause theres to many kids playing MMOs lol, the easy grinding and childish graphics were the main atraction.. If you think im being sarcastic or something.. Go wonder why WoW has the most immature community of mmos
Anyway, there's no point in going on with this debate since there isn't one. The fact is Wow-haters, like me, actually don't hate WoW players, Blizzard or even WoW. We hate that other companies don't make an original game for us who want something else. Then, we see WoW lovers - or at least people we blindly assimilate as WoW lovers - post on the forums dedicated to new MMOs (for instance) and ruin it with comments like "WoW is so better than this" or "There is PvE instancing ! It's not like WoW, sucks!" (*), fearing that it might influence game developers even more to copy WoW and never produce the game we desperately want (see my sig) and will gladly pay heavily for.
(*) : I did that too apparently. I didn't realize this thread was in the WoW section :S
P.S.: about the "I assure you". Obviously, it was an opinion, not a fact. Every single post in this forum expresses an opinion. I see many people here trying to pick on this to try and escape the conversation. You've got to understand that not everyone is English native and foreigners might not be used to say "I think" a the beginning of every sentence ^^
Peace.
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Waiting for: GW2
*thumbs up*: GW, Eve(, WoW)
*thumbs down*: MO, GA, FE
It's a combination of things.
It's easy to learn, has low system requirements, has engaging gameplay from the start (none of this "wait until level xx, it gets good there), and it has a successful marketing campaign.
Depth counts for nothing in this industry unless you can make good first impressions to keep people around for it. Just enough depth with a good hook makes WoW a successful game.
Given a choice between a sexy chick (or man, if you're a girl) or an overweight nerdy girl (again, guy, if you're a girl), what would you choose at first glance? It's like that Wii vs. PS3 commercial spoof. Easy instant action or complicated raw potential?
There's a reason the Wii is never in stock while 360's and PS3's collect dust on store shelves.
There's also a reason why WoW has the most subs while others hardly have a fraction of that.
Think about it.
thats true , low system requirments are very important to an the success of an mmo .vanguard made the huge mistake of aiming its game only at people with high spec machines . not everyone uses thier pc as a games machine .
theres also the option of playing pvp or pve servers . lots of games assume incorrectly that people only want pve play or decide to limit thier pvp to designated areas . while this is also true of warcraft (you cant gank in enamy contorlled territory) theres the option of having a fight in any contested territory which is most of the game area .
in game eccomics are crucial too . city of heroes is a great game but it lacks this one basic element . the result is you dont feel paticulary invested in the game . its a nice one to play for the odd month but not long term .
battle grounds . to my knowlage very few other mmos offer anything like the instanced pvp areas of warcraft like alterac valley that allow 80 players to go head to head .
theres many other things i could mention , decent instances , interesting quests , well thought out proffessions etc
the fact is warcraft is the template for a successful mmorpg . developers would be very wise to learn from it and build on its ideas ( player built communitys and more meaningful world pvp are missing from wow ) . i know this could bring about accusations of wow-clone etc , but this has always happened in the game industry . essentially half life 2 is a clone of the original doom .
City of Heroes is unique in it's genre. World of Warcraft is simply one of the very best in it's. Having said that,I enjoy playing both of these PtP MMOs
!
You haven't played the game in over a year if you still believe that. I doubt there's a single player today who believes that Strength, Agility, Stamina, Intellect and Spirit are the most important attributes on their character. More important are things like Attack Power, Physical Damage, Ranged Damage, Spell Damage, Healing, Critical Strike, Resilience. Yes, some of those things are affected by the fab 5 and yes everyone tries to get as much of those 5 as they can, but bonus modifiers directly to the other attributes are ESSENTIAL and you can't just discount them.
Pick a class and tell me what 2 or 3 of the most important attributes are for that class. For every class, there might be 1 of those main 5, but the others will be one of the ones I mentioned. They are NOT lesser in any way and in fact some are MORE important than the 5.
Let's just take one class for an example, the Hunter for instance. A year ago, Agility and Stamina is what everyone went for, but now Attack Power is on par with Agility and more important than Stamina. And if you PvP than Resilience is absolutly crucial and more important than Stamina as well. And if you're a PvE kind of guy, I would say that Critical Strike is more important than Stamina as your pet will maintain aggro for the most part and you're just looking to do as much damage as possible.
A WOW clone in a different setting is actually not a bad idea.
one thing that is never mentioned when coming to wows success:
They releases in the beginning of the biggest economic growth period in history. They were the nr 1 MMO as more ppl could afford internet; computers and so on. Also other games have done good bc of this . Its just that the p2p businiss model make them cash in on the sucess over and over again.
Its also so that with the economic boom computers were going from expensive to dirt cheap so that also contribute to the sucess.
See World of Starcraft in a year or two
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
See World of Starcraft in a year or two
/agreed.
Although I don't think it will really be just a WoW clone. I'm not sure what Blizzard will do to make it different and there will certainly be a lot of similarities, but I think there will be a few new twists as well. Blizzard is smart enough to know they can't just put a few new graphics on the thing and call it a different game and get people to play it. It's gonna be interesting to see what they come up with.
First off, let me say this: Yes, I've played WoW. I had a 70 Druid on ShadowMoon
WoW is successful because
1) Accessible- you can play it on a commodore 64, practically :P
2) Publicity- "Make Love Not Warcraft", TV ads, etc.
3) Easy to learn
Among many things, obviously, but I think these are the big 3.
WoW is a fun game, there's no doubt about that, but it's not the end-all and be-all of games. It attracts a lot of new gamers who don't know a Scrapper from a Dervish, and that's all they know. There are people who have tried other games, and still like WoW the best, and that's fine. Please, though, don't claim WoW is the "best" game out there if you haven't played a few other MMO's at least. (More than just for a few hours, too)
To those who only know WoW I suggest this:
Try City of Heroes. Amazing game with the best character customization of any MMO out there, and an amazing community to boot.
Try LOTRO. The World is drop-dead Gorgeous and will be a thrill to any fantasy fan.
Try Guild Wars. Free != Bad. It's got great cross-classing and no monthly fee.
And finally, don't try The Matrix Online. Trust me, you do NOT want to go there.
~Tom
See World of Starcraft in a year or two
See: 'Starcraft: Orcs in Space.'People keep making the same mistakes when it comes to Blizzard. Blizzard keeps making them look stupid.
In every country and in every age, the priest has been hostile to liberty. He is always in alliance with the despot, abetting his abuses in return for protection to his own.
-Thomas Jefferson
Well, I would claim WOW is the best for all the MMOs I have played. That started with kingdom of Drakkar, which is a pre-cursor to real MMOs (still using TELNET technology if the young people here even know what it is).
I beta-tested UO & EQ. Join EQ for a few years since launch. And I have pretty much play (or try them all). Games I have played/tried include CoH, EQ2 (big bore), GW (bought it), 9Dragon, Zu Online (very much a WOW clone in a different setting), Eve Online (very nice ... I would continue to play this if it is less hardcore PvP), AO (very dated, I can't get pass the graphics but I will try again when its new rendering engine is released), Tabular Rasa (it can't decide whether it is a shooter or a RPG) and a few more.
WOW is the most assessible, the most polished, easy-to-get into and the most fun quest grinding.
I am not a big PvP player so I am not judging any of these games by the PvP gameplay.
I haven't tried any of the pirate games because I am not a big fan of pirates. I will try jumpgate evoluation when it comes out.
I have now played this WoW thing for a month and I was completely disappointed. I have been dumbfounded that 10-million people play this... this very basic very simplistic, very slow, very clunky game.
I have played a fair number of MMORPGs and have played games dating back to my single digit years on Amigas and PCs. Everything from Black Crypt, Eye of the Beholder series, D&D ones on up through Asheron's Call, Anarchy Online, EQ, AC2, City of Heroes, Tablua Rasa and a few others I have likely forgotten... The OP's question is very much on my mind. "Why is this game so huge in population??"
I think it comes down to a few things. Most of them being right place at the right time. The computers imporved between the AC/EQ years and 2004 to a great extent and WoW was able to capture the enlarged market at exactly the right time. Far fewer households had high end computers that could handle the MMOs and even less had the internet connections that could play them well. The early 2000's replaced the T1 lines that I was brought up on with the cable modem and the price dropped into the range of less wel-to-do families.
At the same time the computers fell into the range of the above average household. Now at that time the console nintendo crowd was just learning about computer games. The nintendo crowd was used to crappy graphics and slow clunky game play. WoW was perfect for them because it offers both in abundance.
The children are drawn to WoW because as someone said before, this is geared toward their level and mentality. The cartoons appeal to the kids and the very basic style of game play appeals to their mindset.
WoW does have a few things going for it. It seems to be fairly bug free, sort of, but that can be expected fo a game that is a half decade out of date. And it has lots of very simple quests. That is it. That is the only two things WoW has going for it except its population, which is nothing more than popular for the sake of being popular.
It did a good job of plagerizing the best parts of other games and combining it into a largescale game for low end computers. It has a large seemless world and lots of different loot (Taken from Asheron's Call, but not done early as well.) It has the slot-car style characters that have very limited powers, very limited abilities and very limited control over the growth and direction of the character - all of which were favored by the EQ crowd.
It is a slow game and it keep the player on a very narrow path (critters a level or two below give no XP, critters a level or two above kill you in a second or two) That is a misyake in my opinion, but seems to be liked by the average casual player. i.e. they log on, they read their next mission objective, they run across the world at a snail's pace for a mindbogglingily long time, they go do the thing it said in the logbook and run back across the world at a snail's pace to tell some schmo that they have finished.
But the most important thing that WoW seems to offer is No Penalties Just All Free Gifts All The Time! Wow is an infomercial in an MMO. There is nothing but an endless stream of free bamboo steamers and bonus gifts if you call in the next ten minutes.
It is the Budweiser or online games. It is the Nike of RPGs... WoW is the perfect game for the basic ordinary average player. It isn't actually good. It has a very bland flavor, fall apart if used in an exercise, but it has great marketing and is popular for the sake of being popular.
I have actually become happy to see that WoW isn't that good. I was a little worried that WoW had somehow done something to an extent that other games would be hard pressed to compete. It hasn't. It has a basic level of polish and a few quests, datz it! Which is GREAT, that means that any company that will actually finish a project, add some polish BEFORE they release it to the market has the potential to have a much better game on their hands!
"The reality of the poor in America isn't the difference between The Haves and The Have Nots, it is the difference between The Haves and The Have Lots."
Maybe you could clarify the critter thign in your post for me. 2 levels below give no xp? 2 levels above annialate you? Are you talking about WOW or some other game?
On Wiccancircle's comments;
I read in another post that you have only played starter areas and have never played a character past L20, but you are willing to condemn the whole game based on that experience alone???
That is not only ill informed commentary it is insulting to all of the other people that have put time into the game and appreciate it in all of it's forms.
On some of your specific points;
- Success was "right place at the right time", well that doesn't really fit as there were a lot of MMO's released around the same times and many more since, yet WoW is still up there. As for being "popular for the sake of being popular" well that may be true if it were a free game, but not that many people are going to throw away their cash just to say "i play warcraft!"
- Game has a "Childish mentality", well we have pretty much heard that from every negative post about WoW, but my experience and the age of the people i play alongside varies heavily from 20's up to 70's. It does have younger people playing, but the majority of players are 20's or above and i am guessing most would find that comment pretty insulting.
- "Plagerizing the best parts of other games", well to an extent that may be true, but i think that you will find that in any MMO on the market as they all get their ideas from somewhere. Whether it is any fantasy clone copying the ideas of Paper based D&D or EvE extending the ideas of 'Elite', they all get a little of something from somewhere, it is how well they produce that idea and move it forward.
- "Slow game, narrow path", if you had actually played the game for any length of time and maybe even got to the middle levels you would see that there is plenty of scope and different paths you can take to achieve the same goal. One of my guildies has just made L70, yet still hasn't been to three areas in the outlands, where as i had been to them all by that point, he just took the route of group levelling and instances, where as i soloed for the wider experience. I question your WoW experience again with your comments about XP and critters 2 levels above killing you?? Most MOB's up to 9 levels below will give XP and an experienced character will hit 4-5+ levels above himself quite easily.
I am sorry you don't enjoy the game, but most of your post is wildly innaccurate at the very least. You mentioned in one of your other posts about what a lot of games do well, but in all cases it was only one thing, WoW may not be the best game ever but it puts a lot of those good things from other games in one place for people to enjoy and a lot do.
You are of course allowed your opinion and i respect that, but i would have respected it a lot more if you had experienced the game as a whole and not just taken a small bite and thrown the whole thing away.
It must be Thursday, i never could get the hang of Thursdays.
mmh it is hard to say why wow is such a big succes
the game is easy to get into, pvp is nice, lots of way to custom your char,lots of quests and the quests aren't that hard to do, you can play it casual and hardcore, overall a nice community, lot's of dungeons and it is mostly fun to play in group, easy to get a group, ... so manny reasons why this is a good game
I'm not saying it is the best but it is a good game
I suscribed again last week, I didn't have played for a while. I tried a lot of other mmorpg's but i didn't like them so that's what I started again on wow
I've created a draenai shaman and it is fun ^^
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waiting for ... nothing..
I do not play it anymore. But I might come back again. Like I do with other games. Here is why I think it's so successful.
Played:
From Earth & Beyond, Anarchy Online, Matrix Online, Star Wars Galaxies, World of Warcraft, Age of Conan, Tabula Rasa (Beta), EvE Online, City of Villians, Atlantica Online, Guild Wars, Lineage 2, Pirates of the Burning Sea, PlanetSide, RF Online, Second Life, Fallen Earth.