I honestly don't think its a Star Wars, Harry Potter or any other big name IP.
According to the BioWare/Pandemic asset document that was leaked, the MMO isn't a BioWare owned IP, and I'm pretty sure given the quality of their own IP that they wouldn't license anything BUT a big name IP if they weren't going to make it all up themselves.
I will say, on behalf of Star Wars, the only reason for the partnership with LucasArts would be an IP, in my opinion, especially after the merge with EA (which could provide just as much publishing power on it's own).
EDIT: of course, there's lots of speculation that the LA/Bioware project and the MMO are two different things anyways.
The Hardcore? Hehe...they are easy to find. Just go to here or IGN and offer the poor dudes doughnuts and you'll get more Hardcores than you'll know what to do with.
The casual/new/non-MMO gamer? Those are hard to find, but absolutely essential if Bioware wants to design a game like pre-CU.
Why? Because a significant portion of the pre-CU playerbase weren't traditional MMO players. I've met ballet instructors, grandmothers, scientists, professors, and lawyers in there. When pre-CU went away, most of them gave up MMO gaming for good, or went to Second Life.
So I really don't think this focus group call is a sign that the game is going to be a WoW clone. Frankly, I believe exactly the opposite. They don't want clan rats, PKers, conterstrikers, farmers, and harcore raiders. They want your general, average person.
Who is exactly the sort of person this industry needs to embrace to get us the game many of us here want.
__________________________ "Its sad when people use religion to feel superior, its even worse to see people using a video game to do it." --Arcken
"...when it comes to pimping EVE I have little restraints." --Hellmar, CEO of CCP.
"It's like they took a gun, put it to their nugget sack and pulled the trigger over and over again, each time telling us how great it was that they were shooting themselves in the balls." --Exar_Kun on SWG's NGE
What kind of people are those they are searching for? I mean I failed at 3 points: "Must play between 1-9 hours a week" (15+ when playing a good game), "No MMORPG experience" (lol) and "Must have purchased 1-5 games in the last year" (I heard there are pirates on teh intrawebs).
I kind really see any person that can live up to all the categories. Strange criterias they've put. I suppose most people will just lie to try to get in.
The Hardcore? Hehe...they are easy to find. Just go to here or IGN and offer the poor dudes doughnuts and you'll get more Hardcores than you'll know what to do with. The casual/new/non-MMO gamer? Those are hard to find, but absolutely essential if Bioware wants to design a game like pre-CU. Why? Because a significant portion of the pre-CU playerbase weren't traditional MMO players. I've met ballet instructors, grandmothers, scientists, professors, and lawyers in there. When pre-CU went away, most of them gave up MMO gaming for good, or went to Second Life. So I really don't think this focus group call is a sign that the game is going to be a WoW clone. Frankly, I believe exactly the opposite. They don't want clan rats, PKers, conterstrikers, farmers, and harcore raiders. They want your general, average person. Who is exactly the sort of person this industry needs to embrace to get us the game many of us here want.
I think it's a great point Beat, especially as a guy who played my first MMO with SWG (I was a MajorMudder, so not young or computer "new"). I think SWG offered an IP that had a huge fan base and brought in Star Wars fans, as opposed to MMO fans. Let's face it, with WoW doing the numbers they're doing...and all the other options...MMO players aren't a market that is worth courting all on it's own. Finding fans of the IP itself, or someone just wanting a "fun game" they can pick up and play with...that's the numbers you want.
The Hardcore? Hehe...they are easy to find. Just go to here or IGN and offer the poor dudes doughnuts and you'll get more Hardcores than you'll know what to do with. Agreed. No focus testing needs to be done with the hardcore crowd, because they will be on board with the game no matter what--even the supposed haters. The hardcore are an easy draw, because they will play the game anyhow. They always do. The casual/new/non-MMO gamer? Those are hard to find, but absolutely essential if Bioware wants to design a game like pre-CU. DO NOT delude yourself into thinking this game will be remotely like pre-CU Star Wars: Galaxies. That game was made not made for anyone except the hardcore virtual world devotees. Pre-CU gamer != casual gamer.
I think SWG offered an IP that had a huge fan base and brought in Star Wars fans, as opposed to MMO fans.
Here's the difference, though. Star Wars: Galaxies most definitely had an IP that drew in the non-MMO crowd. However, where it failed horribly was that the game itself was designed for the existing MMO playerbase of that time.
I think SWG offered an IP that had a huge fan base and brought in Star Wars fans, as opposed to MMO fans.
Here's the difference, though. Star Wars: Galaxies most definitely had an IP that drew in the non-MMO crowd. However, where it failed horribly was that the game itself was designed for the existing MMO playerbase of that time.
I think it at least was designed for computer gamers, although not necessarily MMO'ers, that I'd totally agree with. Unlike WoW, if I'd never picked up a PC game I'd probably had been baffled, for sure.
What kind of people are those they are searching for? I mean I failed at 3 points: "Must play between 1-9 hours a week" (15+ when playing a good game), "No MMORPG experience" (lol) and "Must have purchased 1-5 games in the last year" (I heard there are pirates on teh intrawebs). I kind really see any person that can live up to all the categories. Strange criterias they've put. I suppose most people will just lie to try to get in.
Really a bit strange criteria fpr testing a MMO. But still no reason to really read anything into it. They may just test different or extreme target audiences to evaluate their game.
People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert
I think it at least was designed for computer gamers, although not necessarily MMO'ers, that I'd totally agree with. Unlike WoW, if I'd never picked up a PC game I'd probably had been baffled, for sure.
Yeah, that's kind of what I was getting at. The actual game mechanics of Star Wars: Galaxies weren't designed for the person who bought the game thinking "hey, a Star Wars game for my PC! I love Star Wars! Maybe I'll try it out." And you can bet that due to IP alone, there were A LOT of people who initially bought SW:G based on this premise, then logged in and promptly though "what the hell am I supposed to be doing? Where are the lightsabers? Screw this game <uninstall>."
Which is why I think with this focus testing BioWare is doing, they are actively trying to avoid the above scenario.
If that's the kind of game they're looking to make, I bet it'll be an free to play game, or a game where you buy the box and there's no charge after that (like Guild Wars).
Nobody (well, very few people) will pay a monthly fee for a game they're only going to play one hour a week.
If that's the kind of game they're looking to make, I bet it'll be an free to play game, or a game where you buy the box and there's no charge after that (like Guild Wars). Nobody (well, very few people) will pay a monthly fee for a game they're only going to play one hour a week.
You do know, most people don't play games 3-5 hours a day...right? 1-9 hours a week seems to describe a real, average gamer to me. I mean, that's pretty much an hour a day or a weekend player. Most people (clearly not us) don't actually play games for 30+ hours a week. I daresay WoW is the empire it is based on these types of players in fact.
p.s. I'd guess that WoW numbers are what they are primarily because of gamers who pay their 15 bucks a month, but only play a few hours a week.
Am I the only one who believes a Harry Potter IP would provide too much temptation to fall into "Toontown" areas? I mean, no doubt if it was taken seriously, it would be great, but with the movies being out and those movies being so popular with kids.. It'd be hard not to try to sucker those parents into buying their kids Harry Potter Online.
As far as a focus group goes, meh. Way too early to tell. Focus groups could mean everything or nothing at all, and only the people involved in the creation of the game will know just how much it will affect things. People can shout about how much they aren't impressed with Bioware, but I wasn't impressed with Blizzard before WoW. Now, I'm impressively impressed.
Originally posted by Kyleran If any of this is true, (remember, this is a very sketchy rumor) then it does not bode well for the Bioware MMO. Why? Because I don't believe its possible to create an MMO that can be all things to all people. Attempts to target this to everyone from the super casual to the hardcore are bound to fail. Yes, I know they are Bioware, but hey, I'm not nearly as impressed with them as other folks are, and I don't think they walk on water.
Well, they don't need to attract everyone ... just 10M will be enough. Bioware has a much better track record than most MMO companies out there so I am more than happy to give them a chance.
Plus, causal outnumbered hardcore probably by at least a factor of 10. WOW is a good example. And if you look at console gaming, it has also becoming more casual oriented.
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Can't have participated in more than 3 paid focus groups in the last 6 months Who is the audience for this focus group? Where does this casual player even hear there is one?
Must own at least one video game console or handheld system, but no more than four. Who pays 100-600 dollars for a game device and doesn't have more games than these guys require?
Must play games on the PC, but have no experience with MMOs The person playing games casually on their pc is playing Bejeweled or Solitaire. Again not going to hear about this focus group.
Must own 2 or more video games What game did this imaginary person buy? If they play on the pc all the games coming out now have relatively steep hardware requirements. Ms Casual is shut out. If they are handheld or console they really don't have access nor do they want it, to a gaming community.
Must have purchased 1-5 games in the last year Dream on, el cheapo non gamer isnt going to buy your game anywho.
Must play between 1-9 hours a week Nope, thy're watching HBO
Originally posted by Kyleran If any of this is true, (remember, this is a very sketchy rumor) then it does not bode well for the Bioware MMO. Why? Because I don't believe its possible to create an MMO that can be all things to all people. Attempts to target this to everyone from the super casual to the hardcore are bound to fail.
Yes, I know they are Bioware, but hey, I'm not nearly as impressed with them as other folks are, and I don't think they walk on water.
Well, they don't need to attract everyone ... just 10M will be enough. Bioware has a much better track record than most MMO companies out there so I am more than happy to give them a chance.
Plus, causal outnumbered hardcore probably by at least a factor of 10. WOW is a good example. And if you look at console gaming, it has also becoming more casual oriented.
I agree, they aren't going to be able to attract everyone. If they go for the casual market, odds are its not going to have the game play to satisfy gamers like myself who want something different than the current market offers. Might still be a great game worth playing for a while, but in the end, just like WOW, won't hold my interest.
And again, I played a lot of Bioware SP titles, and they were fun, but nothing that I ever felt were legendary. (unlike Blizzard, who's games I always enjoyed)
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
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Comments
OK another silly MMORPG.
According to the BioWare/Pandemic asset document that was leaked, the MMO isn't a BioWare owned IP, and I'm pretty sure given the quality of their own IP that they wouldn't license anything BUT a big name IP if they weren't going to make it all up themselves.
I will say, on behalf of Star Wars, the only reason for the partnership with LucasArts would be an IP, in my opinion, especially after the merge with EA (which could provide just as much publishing power on it's own).
EDIT: of course, there's lots of speculation that the LA/Bioware project and the MMO are two different things anyways.
If it's Harry Potter, then don't anyone in-game turn their backs on Dumbledorf. (I hear he's had an "alignment" change).
The Hardcore? Hehe...they are easy to find. Just go to here or IGN and offer the poor dudes doughnuts and you'll get more Hardcores than you'll know what to do with.
The casual/new/non-MMO gamer? Those are hard to find, but absolutely essential if Bioware wants to design a game like pre-CU.
Why? Because a significant portion of the pre-CU playerbase weren't traditional MMO players. I've met ballet instructors, grandmothers, scientists, professors, and lawyers in there. When pre-CU went away, most of them gave up MMO gaming for good, or went to Second Life.
So I really don't think this focus group call is a sign that the game is going to be a WoW clone. Frankly, I believe exactly the opposite. They don't want clan rats, PKers, conterstrikers, farmers, and harcore raiders. They want your general, average person.
Who is exactly the sort of person this industry needs to embrace to get us the game many of us here want.
__________________________
"Its sad when people use religion to feel superior, its even worse to see people using a video game to do it."
--Arcken
"...when it comes to pimping EVE I have little restraints."
--Hellmar, CEO of CCP.
"It's like they took a gun, put it to their nugget sack and pulled the trigger over and over again, each time telling us how great it was that they were shooting themselves in the balls."
--Exar_Kun on SWG's NGE
What kind of people are those they are searching for? I mean I failed at 3 points: "Must play between 1-9 hours a week" (15+ when playing a good game), "No MMORPG experience" (lol) and "Must have purchased 1-5 games in the last year" (I heard there are pirates on teh intrawebs).
I kind really see any person that can live up to all the categories. Strange criterias they've put. I suppose most people will just lie to try to get in.
I think it's a great point Beat, especially as a guy who played my first MMO with SWG (I was a MajorMudder, so not young or computer "new"). I think SWG offered an IP that had a huge fan base and brought in Star Wars fans, as opposed to MMO fans. Let's face it, with WoW doing the numbers they're doing...and all the other options...MMO players aren't a market that is worth courting all on it's own. Finding fans of the IP itself, or someone just wanting a "fun game" they can pick up and play with...that's the numbers you want.
Here's the difference, though. Star Wars: Galaxies most definitely had an IP that drew in the non-MMO crowd. However, where it failed horribly was that the game itself was designed for the existing MMO playerbase of that time.
Here's the difference, though. Star Wars: Galaxies most definitely had an IP that drew in the non-MMO crowd. However, where it failed horribly was that the game itself was designed for the existing MMO playerbase of that time.
I think it at least was designed for computer gamers, although not necessarily MMO'ers, that I'd totally agree with. Unlike WoW, if I'd never picked up a PC game I'd probably had been baffled, for sure.
Really a bit strange criteria fpr testing a MMO. But still no reason to really read anything into it. They may just test different or extreme target audiences to evaluate their game.
People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert
Which is why I think with this focus testing BioWare is doing, they are actively trying to avoid the above scenario.
If that's the kind of game they're looking to make, I bet it'll be an free to play game, or a game where you buy the box and there's no charge after that (like Guild Wars).
Nobody (well, very few people) will pay a monthly fee for a game they're only going to play one hour a week.
You do know, most people don't play games 3-5 hours a day...right? 1-9 hours a week seems to describe a real, average gamer to me. I mean, that's pretty much an hour a day or a weekend player. Most people (clearly not us) don't actually play games for 30+ hours a week. I daresay WoW is the empire it is based on these types of players in fact.
p.s. I'd guess that WoW numbers are what they are primarily because of gamers who pay their 15 bucks a month, but only play a few hours a week.
Am I the only one who believes a Harry Potter IP would provide too much temptation to fall into "Toontown" areas? I mean, no doubt if it was taken seriously, it would be great, but with the movies being out and those movies being so popular with kids.. It'd be hard not to try to sucker those parents into buying their kids Harry Potter Online.
As far as a focus group goes, meh. Way too early to tell. Focus groups could mean everything or nothing at all, and only the people involved in the creation of the game will know just how much it will affect things. People can shout about how much they aren't impressed with Bioware, but I wasn't impressed with Blizzard before WoW. Now, I'm impressively impressed.
Bioware said they are going for both groups..
Thanks Impyriel for the sig^^
Well, they don't need to attract everyone ... just 10M will be enough. Bioware has a much better track record than most MMO companies out there so I am more than happy to give them a chance.
Plus, causal outnumbered hardcore probably by at least a factor of 10. WOW is a good example. And if you look at console gaming, it has also becoming more casual oriented.
if by "better" you mean "absolutely no track record", you're 100% correct.
I think by track record they mean releasing great games. Step 1: Understand the post. Step 2: Reply.
This is exactly the opposite of what Blizzard did. Hell they even hired EQ players.
My youtube MMO gaming channel
And again, making great SP games does not translate into making a great MMO...I understood the post just fine, which is why I replied.
BioWare needs to get off their high horse, and announce the MMO already.
It would be nice to at least have the title. They made the press release almost a year ago.
Boy is that hard to read!
Well, they don't need to attract everyone ... just 10M will be enough. Bioware has a much better track record than most MMO companies out there so I am more than happy to give them a chance.
Plus, causal outnumbered hardcore probably by at least a factor of 10. WOW is a good example. And if you look at console gaming, it has also becoming more casual oriented.
I agree, they aren't going to be able to attract everyone. If they go for the casual market, odds are its not going to have the game play to satisfy gamers like myself who want something different than the current market offers. Might still be a great game worth playing for a while, but in the end, just like WOW, won't hold my interest.
And again, I played a lot of Bioware SP titles, and they were fun, but nothing that I ever felt were legendary. (unlike Blizzard, who's games I always enjoyed)
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Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon