I own Doom 3 too. But I play WoW a hell of a lot more.
The above hypothetical dilemma is simply stupid, people who spend $4,000 on a gaming rig are not financially limited to only buying one game. Shops that sell $4,000 dollar gaming computers do not only carry two titles.
Graphics isn't the only reason I buy or play games. It is of vary importance depending on the title and genre. For technology titles like Doom 3 and Crysis, the graphics are a big part of my purchasing decision. It depends on the game.
The art direction in WoW is predictably excellent. As you would expect. It functions well on a wide variety of systems, allowing owners of $4,000 machines to play alongside owners of $400 machines without issues.
It took me a while to get used to it however as I had been used to a more "photo-realistic" approach in most of my other games. (If you can have such a thing in a fantasy game).
Originally posted by Godliest I personally consider WoW's graphics to be one of the better graphics I've seen in a mmo. Instead of going for the not-very-reality looking graphic that's blurry and pretty hard to detect what is what Blizzard instead did graphics that are more along the ways of Zelda: Windwaker. The graphics is very clean, nice looking and most of all it's easy to see what is what. Apart from the graphics aren't very pressuring on your computer either. Personally I would like to see more games that dare to deny the graphic mania that is around.
I agree. WoW's graphics are first and foremost functional. There's very little question about what is going on visually. Secondly, they're also very smooth, which is what allows them access to the market for people who bought their computer in 2001 or so.
I was watching someone play Legend of the Dragoon a while back while everyone and I couldn't tell what the heck was going on in battle. All I was was a bunch of ugly pixels. Final Fantasy Tactics used the same platform but used a lot of 2d graphics. I'd say FFT had better graphics because it was much more pleasing on the eyes and more information could be gleaned from it.
So stop knocking WoW already and understand that while the graphics may be simplistic, they serve a purpose.
Everyone remembers watching cartoons such as GIJOE and Pirates of Dark Water when they were kids. So generally people relate to cartoons as a immature form of entertainment. If WoW has graphics that look cartoony then the game will appeal to children, nobody likes playing a kids game. Basically what im trying to say is comparing WoW's graphic style to EQ2's graphic style is like comparing the Flinstones with CSI: Miami. Primitive cartoons < Live Action
Imo, WoW graphics are simply awesome. The amount of subjective detail they provide with a bare minimum of polygons and textures on screen is staggering. We can all bitch how cartoony they are or that the colors are too garish, but from a professional standpoint WoW graphics are second to none. I've seen games that have 10 times more polygons on screen that look completely barren compared to WoW.
I really detest WoW as such but the graphics and UI are the only two things that are actually any good in that game.
WoW environments are ok, the armour sets however looked like they were designed by someone that was high. Hope the trend does not continue in the expansion pack, but somehow I doubt that.
WoW environments are ok, the armour sets however looked like they were designed by someone that was high. Hope the trend does not continue in the expansion pack, but somehow I doubt that.
LoL yea a lot of the armour IS a bit over the top.
"Kill one man, and you are a murderer. Kill millions of men, and you are a conqueror. Kill them all, and you are a god." -- Jean Rostand
First of all, I hate WoW fundamentally. It is basically an item collecting game, and once you have the best stuff you are done. The game is almost flawless though. If you like this time of game, WoW is the king. Now, onto the graphics. I don't understand why everyone thinks they suck so much. Yes, the style is a bit cartoony, but the graphics don't suck at all. Simply walk into Stormwind and look around. There are so many objects and so much detail in the world that it makes others games look shameful. Most other MMOs have land, sky and then randomly dispersed buildings that stick out like a sore thumb. Everything in WoW fits into the world. Most people DON'T notice all of the detail because the environment is so immersive. Hating the style of the game is one thing, but to deduce that the graphics suck from that is completely incorrect.
The matter is not the detail, is hard to feel that you are in a "world" like the one in wow... cause you said: cartoony, it woulnd be strange if you found the simpsons run in front of you and killing something... so this makes the enviroment and the details faid cause this details are cartoony too...
I've never had an issue with WoW's graphics I find it just part of the character of the game. The colors are rich and vibrant which makes up for any need to appear 'realistic'. Graphics do add to the atmosphere of a game, but to me the game must be fun/enjoyable and graphics alone aren't going to make a game for me.
The Old Timers Guild Laid back, not so serious, no drama. All about the fun!
www.oldtimersguild.com An opinion should be the result of thought, not a substitute for it. - Jef Mallett
People hate WoW's graphics because they are blocky, cartoony, and the textures are poor. Colors are saturated and the whole world looks bland imo. Sure the cities are well designed (and crammed into the nooks and crannies of the zones), but that doesn't have anything to do with the graphics. Entering Stormwind along the bridge looks like it came from a Fisher Price kid's toy, how everything looks so square and plastic.
When comparing say City of Heroes or Guild Wars graphics to WoW's you'll notice more details, more work, more shapes, more animation than wow's. Wow's graphics are ok but the other game's are good. Most of the time you don't notice cuz you need to look close to a still object to appreciate all the details of it.
-Would you like cheddar or swiss cheese? -Yes. -...
I originally (4 years ago when the game came out) thought WOW's graphics were weird, now I love them. It looks pretty and plays well on crappy old computers. Whats not to love?
After playing some new games with more 'realistic" graphics it's just not all about the graphics. To me good looking and good preformance should be both considered by devs.
In terms of technical quality, World of WarCraft was noticably behind when it released back in 2004, so of course today it is extremely outdated with no sign of improvement in sight.
In terms of style, the matter is, of course, subjective, but in my case I hate the graphical style because, quite simply, I think it is both ugly and silly. I find nothing about any of the races visually appealing. The Humans remind me of American hillbillies, and the Elves... only Blizzard can disgust me with my favourite fantasy race, it seems.
Nothing is subtle with Blizzard. I can't stand that they seem incapable of, or uninterested in, anything subtle, refined, ambiguous, complex, or otherwise pleasant or interesting. Everything is:
OMGWTFINURFACELOL!!!!!
For lack of a better expression.
The simplest example of this is their use of colour. People often say that Azeroth is colourful, but I must disagree. From the brief time I spend within it, I noticed six colours:
OMGRED
WTFPURPLE
FTWBLUE
GGGREEN
LOLYELLOW
ROFLORANGE
Favorites: EQ, EVE | Playing: None. Mostly VR and strategy | Anticipating: CU, Pantheon
While I don't like WoW, and I'm not a giant fan of it's graphics, make no mistake about the genius behind keeping things a little simpler and not creating a giant curve prejudiced to high end gaming machines. It hurt Vanguard huge, it will hurt AoC huge, IMO as well.
Because nto everyone likes the cartoony look but Blizzard does that well. If you want to see amazing artwork look no further than Arenanet. Guild Wars artwork is amazing.
While I don't like WoW, and I'm not a giant fan of it's graphics, make no mistake about the genius behind keeping things a little simpler and not creating a giant curve prejudiced to high end gaming machines. It hurt Vanguard huge, it will hurt AoC huge, IMO as well.
I'm not sure that I agree. Vanguard can be scaled down to look as bad as World of WarCraft, but World of WarCraft cannot be scaled up to look as good as Vanguard.
The more realistically oriented style of Vanguard's graphics means that lowering the quality is more noticeable, of course, and that can't be helped, so I agree with you insofar as the highest levels of realism will never be the most popular, but I'm also quite convinced that World of WarCraft released too far in the opposite direction.
Favorites: EQ, EVE | Playing: None. Mostly VR and strategy | Anticipating: CU, Pantheon
While I don't like WoW, and I'm not a giant fan of it's graphics, make no mistake about the genius behind keeping things a little simpler and not creating a giant curve prejudiced to high end gaming machines. It hurt Vanguard huge, it will hurt AoC huge, IMO as well.
I'm not sure that I agree. Vanguard can be scaled down to look as bad as World of WarCraft, but World of WarCraft cannot be scaled up to look as good as Vanguard.
The more realistically oriented style of Vanguard's graphics means that lowering the quality is more noticeable, of course, and that can't be helped, so I agree with you insofar as the highest levels of realism will never be the most popular, but I'm also quite convinced that World of WarCraft released too far in the opposite direction.
You can scale down Vanguard and make it look crappy...but you're still going to be running it on at least a P4 2.4, 128 meg 3d card....vs. a P3 800 and 32 meg card.
That's the difference. Crappy hand me down laptop owned by college kid=runs WoW.
I'll mention this one more time. Most of the MMO games with high end graphics just don't focus on minor details in world creation. They only focus ont he people and motion blur with bloom effects. (which I hate GuildWars).
I am currently playing Perfect World and the cities have nicely decorated buildings, but thats all they are. empty buildgins with a shop keeper in front of it. The buildings are just dropped in to give a sense of a town and that is it. The same goes for Lineage 2, Anarchy Online, DAOC, Guild Wars.
When I look at WoW, I see details to their world. What they lack in high end graphics they replace with details. Right in the main courtyard of Stormwind (by the auction house) is a wagon. Why is it there? No reason. Behind it in the alleys you will see things like buckets, brooms, animated rats moving about, an out of place bush, and all sorts of little objects that make a city look and feel like a city.
Agreed. The reason most games that attempt to look realistic fail for me is because they end up looking fake. Blizzard was brilliant in creating a cartoonish environment where they could make things look pretty without having to make them look real. In doing so, they naturally created less skeptisim from the player about the immersiveness, while amazingly actually helping in that aspect of the game. Though, now I do agree it's becoming outdated and could use a facelift.
Well said! You hit the nail smack on the head. Blizzard's graphic choice for WoW is indeed brilliant. Everyone talks about how amazing Lotro looks. Well ultimately the graphics fail. For the exact reason donmaximo mentions in his post. At first they are impressive but with time, the desire to make them look so real, ends up making them look fake or plastic. WoW on the other hand creates a new look for their world so your mind does not try to connect the graphic to the real world. What this creates is a stronger sense of immersion. EQ2 suffers from this as well but not to the extent of Lotro. What Blizzard offered in WoW was a consistent visual experience on all levels. Every visual in WoW is handle with the same care and inspiration. In both EQ2 and Lotro some areas are inspired and some feel under inspired or even rushed. The consistency of WoW graphic makes the above mentioned immersion possible. I also believe a facelift is due. However, if this was to happen they need to maintain the consistent cartoony style that they do so well.
Agreed. The reason most games that attempt to look realistic fail for me is because they end up looking fake. Blizzard was brilliant in creating a cartoonish environment where they could make things look pretty without having to make them look real. In doing so, they naturally created less skeptisim from the player about the immersiveness, while amazingly actually helping in that aspect of the game. Though, now I do agree it's becoming outdated and could use a facelift.
Well said! You hit the nail smack on the head. Blizzard's graphic choice for WoW is indeed brilliant. Everyone talks about how amazing Lotro looks. Well ultimately the graphics fail. For the exact reason donmaximo mentions in his post. At first they are impressive but with time, the desire to make them look so real, ends up making them look fake or plastic. WoW on the other hand creates a new look for their world so your mind does not try to connect the graphic to the real world. What this creates is a stronger sense of immersion. EQ2 suffers from this as well but not to the extent of Lotro. What Blizzard offered in WoW was a consistent visual experience on all levels. Every visual in WoW is handle with the same care and inspiration. In both EQ2 and Lotro some areas are inspired and some feel under inspired or even rushed. The consistency of WoW graphic makes the above mentioned immersion possible. I also believe a facelift is due. However, if this was to happen they need to maintain the consistent cartoony style that they do so well.
This is called the uncanny valley hypothesis. As graphics get more and more realistic, rather than focusing on the world and gameplay, people focus on the graphics and actually start to notice the few imperfections more. Since WoW's graphics don't try to look realistic, people don't focus on the graphics, but rather they become immersed in the world and gameplay.
I too, can't see why people think WoW's graphics suck, and although they aren't "ultra-realistic" they are by no means bad. this may have already been mentioned as i didn't take the time to read every post as this thread is already quite lengthy. but I myself am a 3D modeler/texturer and overall graphic designer, and if you've ever just looked at wow's graphics, they are quite remarkable really. some of the best i've ever seen.
Granted, they aren't normal mapped, they don't have parallax mapping, they don't look like Guild Wars or Crysis or anything, but they are just as if not, even more so amazing.
Blizzard's texture artists deserve a raise...being a 3D modeler its easy for me to see seems, and to see polygons and the basic modeling shapes used, and the great thing with WoW and blizzard in general is that they are great when working with these constraints...you can look at a simple object of theirs, like referenced before in a previous post, a bucket and stormwind...and it looks like a believable bucket. no it may not be perfectly smooth, or have all of the indents that would go with the wood grain, but the way the texture is applied and painted in general, it very easily looks like it could be. and thats just a simple bucket! take the time, walk around WoW, and really just observe, no they may not be next gen, but they are still amazing and the more i walk around WoW and visit new areas, the more I appreciate its graphics.
Comments
I play WoW on my $4,000 computer.
I own Doom 3 too. But I play WoW a hell of a lot more.
The above hypothetical dilemma is simply stupid, people who spend $4,000 on a gaming rig are not financially limited to only buying one game. Shops that sell $4,000 dollar gaming computers do not only carry two titles.
Graphics isn't the only reason I buy or play games. It is of vary importance depending on the title and genre. For technology titles like Doom 3 and Crysis, the graphics are a big part of my purchasing decision. It depends on the game.
The art direction in WoW is predictably excellent. As you would expect. It functions well on a wide variety of systems, allowing owners of $4,000 machines to play alongside owners of $400 machines without issues.
It took me a while to get used to it however as I had been used to a more "photo-realistic" approach in most of my other games. (If you can have such a thing in a fantasy game).
I agree. WoW's graphics are first and foremost functional. There's very little question about what is going on visually. Secondly, they're also very smooth, which is what allows them access to the market for people who bought their computer in 2001 or so.
I was watching someone play Legend of the Dragoon a while back while everyone and I couldn't tell what the heck was going on in battle. All I was was a bunch of ugly pixels. Final Fantasy Tactics used the same platform but used a lot of 2d graphics. I'd say FFT had better graphics because it was much more pleasing on the eyes and more information could be gleaned from it.
So stop knocking WoW already and understand that while the graphics may be simplistic, they serve a purpose.
Everyone remembers watching cartoons such as GIJOE and Pirates of Dark Water when they were kids. So generally people relate to cartoons as a immature form of entertainment. If WoW has graphics that look cartoony then the game will appeal to children, nobody likes playing a kids game. Basically what im trying to say is comparing WoW's graphic style to EQ2's graphic style is like comparing the Flinstones with CSI: Miami. Primitive cartoons
< Live Action 
Imo, WoW graphics are simply awesome. The amount of subjective detail they provide with a bare minimum of polygons and textures on screen is staggering. We can all bitch how cartoony they are or that the colors are too garish, but from a professional standpoint WoW graphics are second to none. I've seen games that have 10 times more polygons on screen that look completely barren compared to WoW.
I really detest WoW as such but the graphics and UI are the only two things that are actually any good in that game.
WoW environments are ok, the armour sets however looked like they were designed by someone that was high. Hope the trend does not continue in the expansion pack, but somehow I doubt that.
LoL yea a lot of the armour IS a bit over the top.
"Kill one man, and you are a murderer. Kill millions of men, and you are a conqueror. Kill them all, and you are a god."
-- Jean Rostand
The matter is not the detail, is hard to feel that you are in a "world" like the one in wow... cause you said: cartoony, it woulnd be strange if you found the simpsons run in front of you and killing something... so this makes the enviroment and the details faid cause this details are cartoony too...
Video Graphically they are not outstanding.
Artistically and aesthetically they are phenomenal.
I've never had an issue with WoW's graphics I find it just part of the character of the game. The colors are rich and vibrant which makes up for any need to appear 'realistic'. Graphics do add to the atmosphere of a game, but to me the game must be fun/enjoyable and graphics alone aren't going to make a game for me.
The Old Timers Guild
Laid back, not so serious, no drama.
All about the fun!
www.oldtimersguild.com
An opinion should be the result of thought, not a substitute for it. - Jef Mallett
People hate WoW's graphics because they are blocky, cartoony, and the textures are poor. Colors are saturated and the whole world looks bland imo. Sure the cities are well designed (and crammed into the nooks and crannies of the zones), but that doesn't have anything to do with the graphics. Entering Stormwind along the bridge looks like it came from a Fisher Price kid's toy, how everything looks so square and plastic.
When comparing say City of Heroes or Guild Wars graphics to WoW's you'll notice more details, more work, more shapes, more animation than wow's. Wow's graphics are ok but the other game's are good. Most of the time you don't notice cuz you need to look close to a still object to appreciate all the details of it.
-Would you like cheddar or swiss cheese?
-Yes.
-...
I originally (4 years ago when the game came out) thought WOW's graphics were weird, now I love them. It looks pretty and plays well on crappy old computers. Whats not to love?
After playing some new games with more 'realistic" graphics it's just not all about the graphics. To me good looking and good preformance should be both considered by devs.
In terms of technical quality, World of WarCraft was noticably behind when it released back in 2004, so of course today it is extremely outdated with no sign of improvement in sight.
In terms of style, the matter is, of course, subjective, but in my case I hate the graphical style because, quite simply, I think it is both ugly and silly. I find nothing about any of the races visually appealing. The Humans remind me of American hillbillies, and the Elves... only Blizzard can disgust me with my favourite fantasy race, it seems.
Nothing is subtle with Blizzard. I can't stand that they seem incapable of, or uninterested in, anything subtle, refined, ambiguous, complex, or otherwise pleasant or interesting. Everything is:
OMGWTFINURFACELOL!!!!!
For lack of a better expression.
The simplest example of this is their use of colour. People often say that Azeroth is colourful, but I must disagree. From the brief time I spend within it, I noticed six colours:
OMGRED
WTFPURPLE
FTWBLUE
GGGREEN
LOLYELLOW
ROFLORANGE
While I don't like WoW, and I'm not a giant fan of it's graphics, make no mistake about the genius behind keeping things a little simpler and not creating a giant curve prejudiced to high end gaming machines. It hurt Vanguard huge, it will hurt AoC huge, IMO as well.
I dunno, my machine is slightly under min req for Tabula Rasa and i could still afford some eye candy. It's all suggestive really.
-Would you like cheddar or swiss cheese?
-Yes.
-...
WoW (with B.C.) = P3 800 MHz processor, 32 meg 3d card, 512 RAM
TR= P4 2.5 GHz processor, 128 meg 3d card, 512 RAM
Because nto everyone likes the cartoony look but Blizzard does that well. If you want to see amazing artwork look no further than Arenanet. Guild Wars artwork is amazing.
I'm not sure that I agree. Vanguard can be scaled down to look as bad as World of WarCraft, but World of WarCraft cannot be scaled up to look as good as Vanguard.
The more realistically oriented style of Vanguard's graphics means that lowering the quality is more noticeable, of course, and that can't be helped, so I agree with you insofar as the highest levels of realism will never be the most popular, but I'm also quite convinced that World of WarCraft released too far in the opposite direction.
I'm not sure that I agree. Vanguard can be scaled down to look as bad as World of WarCraft, but World of WarCraft cannot be scaled up to look as good as Vanguard.
The more realistically oriented style of Vanguard's graphics means that lowering the quality is more noticeable, of course, and that can't be helped, so I agree with you insofar as the highest levels of realism will never be the most popular, but I'm also quite convinced that World of WarCraft released too far in the opposite direction.
You can scale down Vanguard and make it look crappy...but you're still going to be running it on at least a P4 2.4, 128 meg 3d card....vs. a P3 800 and 32 meg card.
That's the difference. Crappy hand me down laptop owned by college kid=runs WoW.
p.s. and that's WITH burning crusade.
I'll mention this one more time. Most of the MMO games with high end graphics just don't focus on minor details in world creation. They only focus ont he people and motion blur with bloom effects. (which I hate GuildWars).
I am currently playing Perfect World and the cities have nicely decorated buildings, but thats all they are. empty buildgins with a shop keeper in front of it. The buildings are just dropped in to give a sense of a town and that is it. The same goes for Lineage 2, Anarchy Online, DAOC, Guild Wars.
When I look at WoW, I see details to their world. What they lack in high end graphics they replace with details. Right in the main courtyard of Stormwind (by the auction house) is a wagon. Why is it there? No reason. Behind it in the alleys you will see things like buckets, brooms, animated rats moving about, an out of place bush, and all sorts of little objects that make a city look and feel like a city.
Because they seem to be made for a 12 years old kid.
Well said! You hit the nail smack on the head. Blizzard's graphic choice for WoW is indeed brilliant. Everyone talks about how amazing Lotro looks. Well ultimately the graphics fail. For the exact reason donmaximo mentions in his post. At first they are impressive but with time, the desire to make them look so real, ends up making them look fake or plastic. WoW on the other hand creates a new look for their world so your mind does not try to connect the graphic to the real world. What this creates is a stronger sense of immersion. EQ2 suffers from this as well but not to the extent of Lotro. What Blizzard offered in WoW was a consistent visual experience on all levels. Every visual in WoW is handle with the same care and inspiration. In both EQ2 and Lotro some areas are inspired and some feel under inspired or even rushed. The consistency of WoW graphic makes the above mentioned immersion possible. I also believe a facelift is due. However, if this was to happen they need to maintain the consistent cartoony style that they do so well.
Well said! You hit the nail smack on the head. Blizzard's graphic choice for WoW is indeed brilliant. Everyone talks about how amazing Lotro looks. Well ultimately the graphics fail. For the exact reason donmaximo mentions in his post. At first they are impressive but with time, the desire to make them look so real, ends up making them look fake or plastic. WoW on the other hand creates a new look for their world so your mind does not try to connect the graphic to the real world. What this creates is a stronger sense of immersion. EQ2 suffers from this as well but not to the extent of Lotro. What Blizzard offered in WoW was a consistent visual experience on all levels. Every visual in WoW is handle with the same care and inspiration. In both EQ2 and Lotro some areas are inspired and some feel under inspired or even rushed. The consistency of WoW graphic makes the above mentioned immersion possible. I also believe a facelift is due. However, if this was to happen they need to maintain the consistent cartoony style that they do so well.
This is called the uncanny valley hypothesis. As graphics get more and more realistic, rather than focusing on the world and gameplay, people focus on the graphics and actually start to notice the few imperfections more. Since WoW's graphics don't try to look realistic, people don't focus on the graphics, but rather they become immersed in the world and gameplay.I too, can't see why people think WoW's graphics suck, and although they aren't "ultra-realistic" they are by no means bad. this may have already been mentioned as i didn't take the time to read every post as this thread is already quite lengthy. but I myself am a 3D modeler/texturer and overall graphic designer, and if you've ever just looked at wow's graphics, they are quite remarkable really. some of the best i've ever seen.
Granted, they aren't normal mapped, they don't have parallax mapping, they don't look like Guild Wars or Crysis or anything, but they are just as if not, even more so amazing.
Blizzard's texture artists deserve a raise...being a 3D modeler its easy for me to see seems, and to see polygons and the basic modeling shapes used, and the great thing with WoW and blizzard in general is that they are great when working with these constraints...you can look at a simple object of theirs, like referenced before in a previous post, a bucket and stormwind...and it looks like a believable bucket. no it may not be perfectly smooth, or have all of the indents that would go with the wood grain, but the way the texture is applied and painted in general, it very easily looks like it could be. and thats just a simple bucket! take the time, walk around WoW, and really just observe, no they may not be next gen, but they are still amazing and the more i walk around WoW and visit new areas, the more I appreciate its graphics.
Lol, best comment on this topic, XD
Thanks Impyriel for the sig^^