Lady, you consider being confrontational, inflammitory, and prejudiced being a 'good sport'? hooookaaay.... Whatever you say.
On to you saying saying that you don't talk about your orientation in a game... Well, why would you if you don't want to? Thats your business and has nothing to do with playing a game, and thats part of my point. The game has nothing to do with sexual orientation, and to base guilds around such a thing is very confusing to me.
It's interesting that you say that a certain type of gay guy (hmm... not so 'like minded' now are we?) is the 'worst' for asking questions and making comments. These are the guys that would be drawn to a 'gay friendly' guild right?
This would defeat the object of having such a guild? Right?
Originally posted by vesavius Lady, you consider being confrontational, inflammitory, and prejudiced being a 'good sport'? hooookaaay.... Whatever you say. On to you saying saying that you don't talk about your orientation in a game... Well, why would you if you don't want to? Thats your business and has nothing to do with playing a game, and thats part of my point. The game has nothing to do with sexual orientation, and to base guilds around such a thing is very confusing to me. It's interesting that you say that a certain type of gay guy (hmm... not so 'like minded' now are we?) is the 'worst' for asking questions and making comments. These are the guys that would be drawn to a 'gay friendly' guild right? This would defeat the object of having such a guild? Right?
Um excuse me, have you *read* what he stated? He hasn't been confrontational at all, nor prejudicial considering he is *gay* and has explained his positioned, despite others pulling out the horse pucky stereotypes of 'swish' gay people. So, before you even post again, read what he stated through the thread, otherwise, you can go on ignore.
The reason it is difficult to find gay gamers online is because homosexuality is such a very small minority of people on the planet. I think the gay population represents <1% of the total population of the U.S. for example. So to expect to find other gay gamers is a bit of a long shot, unless you belong to a gay guild or something like that.
Even the most sceptic researches estimate around 4%, in big cities (gays leave rural places often for obvious reasons) up to 10%. No reasonable research ever found anything but the fact the percentage is the same in all cultures and ages, so its likely genetic. Then there is a variance of about 20% bi people. Its somewhat like the Gauss Normal distribution curve.
@vesavius: yes in the ideal world we would all mix and mingle and be accepted. But we all live in the real world. Sometimes I am just tired to be alert and in combat stance, then I go to a club I know I dont have to be, just for a time to relax. Its not so much unlike you go out with the boys and no girlfriends from time to time. Its not about finding a boyfriend. Its about finding a place where you can be 100% sure to be accepted and not fight, argue, discuss or what. I dont mind discuss sometimes, but sometimes I just dont want to be alert and ready to face verbal combats. Thats just how reality is.
Still quite a minority. Unless geneticists find the gene or genes responsible for homosexuality, then nobody can conclude logically that it is genetic. Regardless, my point is still sound.
LadyAttis, you go and be who ever the hell you wanna be.
To break it down for everyone, as long as you're not hurting anyone else with the way you want to live, then you just go ahead and do it - if it makes you happy. That's all there is to life. If people want to make gay guilds, then let them. Who cares?
Until we as the collective human race can learn to view people without differentiating them, or labeling them (colour, religion, sexuality, etc), we will never progress as a species. Seriously, give it a try. Just look at people as people, individuals. Not as a black person, or a gay person, or a gamer person. Trust me, once you learn to look at people as just people - as great or as dumb as we are - you'll be as happy as a pig in poo-mud.
Homosexuality is just a sexual preference i dont know why they need their special cliques and its a crime to say anything against them, its the same thing as if a guy likes fat chicks theres no crimes against bashing a chubby chaser.
The problems begin once you segment a group of people, it doesn't matter if you're talking about gay people, black people or left handed people. If your desire is to garnish a certain level of attention (for the sake of attention) or in some cases special treatment you're going to run into issues.
Massive Multiplayer games are going to have a little bit of everyone, but its about everyone and not special interest groups. Recognizing a group of people doesn't originate from them trying to segment themselves its about them offering something that benefits everyone.
The Old Timers Guild Laid back, not so serious, no drama. All about the fun!
www.oldtimersguild.com An opinion should be the result of thought, not a substitute for it. - Jef Mallett
The reason it is difficult to find gay gamers online is because homosexuality is such a very small minority of people on the planet. I think the gay population represents <1% of the total population of the U.S. for example. So to expect to find other gay gamers is a bit of a long shot, unless you belong to a gay guild or something like that.
Even the most sceptic researches estimate around 4%, in big cities (gays leave rural places often for obvious reasons) up to 10%. No reasonable research ever found anything but the fact the percentage is the same in all cultures and ages, so its likely genetic. Then there is a variance of about 20% bi people. Its somewhat like the Gauss Normal distribution curve.
@vesavius: yes in the ideal world we would all mix and mingle and be accepted. But we all live in the real world. Sometimes I am just tired to be alert and in combat stance, then I go to a club I know I dont have to be, just for a time to relax. Its not so much unlike you go out with the boys and no girlfriends from time to time. Its not about finding a boyfriend. Its about finding a place where you can be 100% sure to be accepted and not fight, argue, discuss or what. I dont mind discuss sometimes, but sometimes I just dont want to be alert and ready to face verbal combats. Thats just how reality is.
Still quite a minority. Unless geneticists find the gene or genes responsible for homosexuality, then nobody can conclude logically that it is genetic. Regardless, my point is still sound.
This is retarded. By your logic, we couldn't have concluded that brown hair was a genetic trait until we found the genes for brown hair.
Obviously retarded is the word - no other way to put it. We knew hair color, eye color, skin tone, and a variety of other traits (including many diseases, such as diabetes) were genetic long before we sequenced the genome.
The same methods we used to determine that brown hair is genetic work on 'gay' as well. Identical twins tests have shown that if one identical twin is gay, the other one has an ~50% chance of sharing that orientation. While this is obviously less than their 99+% chance of sharing hair color, its a heck of a lot higher than the general population. The conclusion that homosexuality has a large genetic component is accepted in scientific circles, even if it remains controversial in political circles (similar to evolution, actually).
In every country and in every age, the priest has been hostile to liberty. He is always in alliance with the despot, abetting his abuses in return for protection to his own.
Homosexuality is just a sexual preference i dont know why they need their special cliques and its a crime to say anything against them, its the same thing as if a guy likes fat chicks theres no crimes against bashing a chubby chaser.
If I wanted a woman with the body of ten year old boy, I'd just date a ten year old boy.
There's also no law against bashing dogs that chase bones either.
I can kinda see where you're coming from though. If they're constantly insecure about their weight then they'll have lower self esteem which will make them lower their expectations and maybe even be grateful that they're in a relationship at all. Malnutrition also keeps 'em weak so that they can't fight back to well when you decide that "no" means "yes."
And yeah, I like women that are little on the heavy side.
Lady, you consider being confrontational, inflammitory, and prejudiced being a 'good sport'? hooookaaay.... Whatever you say.
On to you saying saying that you don't talk about your orientation in a game... Well, why would you if you don't want to? Thats your business and has nothing to do with playing a game, and thats part of my point. The game has nothing to do with sexual orientation, and to base guilds around such a thing is very confusing to me.
It's interesting that you say that a certain type of gay guy (hmm... not so 'like minded' now are we?) is the 'worst' for asking questions and making comments. These are the guys that would be drawn to a 'gay friendly' guild right?
This would defeat the object of having such a guild? Right?
Um excuse me, have you *read* what he stated? He hasn't been confrontational at all, nor prejudicial considering he is *gay* and has explained his positioned, despite others pulling out the horse pucky stereotypes of 'swish' gay people. So, before you even post again, read what he stated through the thread, otherwise, you can go on ignore.
-- Brede
Yes. yes, I read what he stated. Please stop trying to tell me what I can and can't do here on these forums.
I feel he has been confrontational by using insulting words like 'stupid' etc, SHOUTING at me in caps, using exclamation marks!!!! and being prejudiced by making assumptions about who I am and why I feel why I feel without even asking me about where I am coming from.
Gay people cannot be confrontational or prejudiced? lol, Gay people can be amongst the most confrontational and prejudicial people that I know. You arnt immune to these conditions.
Did he ever ask me if I 'belonged' to a 'minority' before he challenged my right to assert my view about being in one?
No.
Lady, if you cannot stand to see or try to comprehend other PoVs other then your own then by all means put me on ignore if you choose. I personally think that I have been rational, balanced, and respectful. It really dosent matter at all..
@vesavius: yes in the ideal world we would all mix and mingle and be accepted. But we all live in the real world. Sometimes I am just tired to be alert and in combat stance, then I go to a club I know I dont have to be, just for a time to relax. Its not so much unlike you go out with the boys and no girlfriends from time to time. Its not about finding a boyfriend. Its about finding a place where you can be 100% sure to be accepted and not fight, argue, discuss or what. I dont mind discuss sometimes, but sometimes I just dont want to be alert and ready to face verbal combats. Thats just how reality is.
The only people that can make a 'ideal world' are the peple that live in it imo. As a wise man once said, all it takes for evil to win is for good men to do nothing... or something similar anyhow.
I do hear where you are coming from tho, we all need to chill out and relax, but the point being made here is that if you make things as 'gay guilds' then you are promoting it as a 'wierd' and seperate thing to be, when in fact you would be helping all gays by promoting a positive and balanced way of being by joining a 'normal' guild and being a good person
If you really wanna relax in an MMORPG and not answer questions about being gay, if you really wanna opt out of the whole thing, just don't talk about your sexual orientation. It's that easy.
Alot of intresting points being made in this post, but i can't help but feel it has been lessened by alot of counter posts claiming that people giving there views/opinons on weather the fact a gay guild would be a negative thing in a MMO are being branded as Homophobic. I think there are to many people on these forums that would rather act like the good guy and defend the 'underdogs' regardless of the suitation, rather than give thier honest opinions. I can understand that people with a specific intrest would like a place to speak with out being hassled for it but i dont see the need for an entire guild dedicated for it, i was in a guild in WoW that had several gay members in it and instead of wanting to make a specific guild they decided to make a seperate chat channel for it, were not only gay members form our guild but from any other guild could speak in it. This to me seem to be a better way of doing (if possible in your chosen game) as this allows you to not be limited by guild choice and let you play with the people you enjoy as well as having a place to speak openly. Unfortunatly the channel did eventually have to be remade and passworded as it was harassed by the occasional kiddie, but thats is the way of WoW.
I'd personally have to give my cookie Vesavius. He's given hes honest opnion, in my eyes none of it has been homophobic (if anythign hes trying to help) and even under attack by a couple of people atleast he's still trying to clarify hes point in a rational and mature manner
And good for you X, to pose as the voice or reason vs. the posers, making you no more than top poseur. V made some pretty fucked up comments, then decided to back them up with the "hey I am a minority toooooo. So you must accept mah lane" card. Sorry, that doesn't fly. This is a forum, you are judged by your comments and nothing more. If you want to clarify your position with real life commentary, do it up front. Don't expect anyone to pity your ass because you make a bigoted comment, only to use "well in RL I am ()" in your reply. Honestly, it makes you no less of a bigot. It only shows how bigotry exists in all forms of life. Spare your fellow () and use your bean before posting in a publlc forum, both of you...
To everyone else, if gay pixels bother you, perhaps you need to take a long hard look at your ego.
Played (more than a month): SWG, Second Life, Tabula Rasa, Lineage 2, Everquest 2, EvE, MxO, Ryzom.
And good for you X, to pose as the voice or reason vs. the posers, making you no more than top poseur. V made some pretty fucked up comments, then decided to back them up with the "hey I am a minority toooooo. So you must accept mah lane" card. Sorry, that doesn't fly. This is a forum, you are judged by your comments and nothing more. If you want to clarify your position with real life commentary, do it up front. Don't expect anyone to pity your ass because you make a bigoted comment, only to use "well in RL I am ()" in your reply. Honestly, it makes you no less of a bigot. It only shows how bigotry exists in all forms of life. Spare your fellow () and use your bean before posting in a publlc forum, both of you... To everyone else, if gay pixels bother you, perhaps you need to take a long hard look at your ego.
No, I never claimed to be a minority. I merely put it forward that he assumed that I wasnt.
I will be happy to be to judged by my words alone, if only people were capable of reading and understanding them. You obviously are not.
'Gay pixels'? hehe are you real?
Fucked up how? Bigoted how? Please clarify for me how calling for integration, discussion, and education is bigoted, because I am not getting it.
Your whole post is a fine example of how hearing isnt the same as listening.
Um. Whoever suggested Second Life, I think you missed the point. He didn't say, "Hi, I'm looking for an MMO where I can live out my sexual fantasies." In fact, I think it's kind of gross and biased that you'd even bring that up.
Anyways. Did anyone else get an immature giggle when people mentioned CoX?
And good for you X, to pose as the voice or reason vs. the posers, making you no more than top poseur. V made some pretty fucked up comments, then decided to back them up with the "hey I am a minority toooooo. So you must accept mah lane" card. Sorry, that doesn't fly. This is a forum, you are judged by your comments and nothing more. If you want to clarify your position with real life commentary, do it up front. Don't expect anyone to pity your ass because you make a bigoted comment, only to use "well in RL I am ()" in your reply. Honestly, it makes you no less of a bigot. It only shows how bigotry exists in all forms of life. Spare your fellow () and use your bean before posting in a publlc forum, both of you... To everyone else, if gay pixels bother you, perhaps you need to take a long hard look at your ego.
No, I never claimed to be a minority. I merely put it forward that he assumed that I wasnt.
I will be happy to be to judged by my words alone, if only people were capable of reading and understanding them. You obviously are not.
'Gay pixels'? hehe are you real?
Fucked up how? Bigoted how? Please clarify for me how calling for integration, discussion, and education is bigoted, because I am not getting it.
Your whole post is a fine example of how hearing isnt the same as listening.
If you didn't claim to be a minority, then don't swing the smelly fish. You are being evasive only for arguments sake, which may give you the wiggle room in a forum, but makes you no less of a deutsch. You want to argue that players will have no problem if they keep it our of game, well, that is not what the OP asked now, is it? This don't ask, don't tell is quite tiresome. The debate of genetics is tiresome. The debate of why people mix rl with vl is tiresome. The OP asked, "where can I find a gay friendly guild/game?" So evidently, his identity is something he wishes to carry over to VL. Why? Because it is important to him.
But, how can I expect you to even read *your* own statements? Right, your color is white...
Played (more than a month): SWG, Second Life, Tabula Rasa, Lineage 2, Everquest 2, EvE, MxO, Ryzom.
And good for you X, to pose as the voice or reason vs. the posers, making you no more than top poseur. V made some pretty fucked up comments, then decided to back them up with the "hey I am a minority toooooo. So you must accept mah lane" card. Sorry, that doesn't fly. This is a forum, you are judged by your comments and nothing more. If you want to clarify your position with real life commentary, do it up front. Don't expect anyone to pity your ass because you make a bigoted comment, only to use "well in RL I am ()" in your reply. Honestly, it makes you no less of a bigot. It only shows how bigotry exists in all forms of life. Spare your fellow () and use your bean before posting in a publlc forum, both of you... To everyone else, if gay pixels bother you, perhaps you need to take a long hard look at your ego.
No, I never claimed to be a minority. I merely put it forward that he assumed that I wasnt.
I will be happy to be to judged by my words alone, if only people were capable of reading and understanding them. You obviously are not.
'Gay pixels'? hehe are you real?
Fucked up how? Bigoted how? Please clarify for me how calling for integration, discussion, and education is bigoted, because I am not getting it.
Your whole post is a fine example of how hearing isnt the same as listening.
If you didn't claim to be a minority, then don't swing the smelly fish. You are being evasive only for arguments sake, which may give you the wiggle room in a forum, but makes you no less of a deutsch. You want to argue that players will have no problem if they keep it our of game, well, that is not what the OP asked now, is it? This don't ask, don't tell is quite tiresome. The debate of genetics is tiresome. The debate of why people mix rl with vl is tiresome. The OP asked, "where can I find a gay friendly guild/game?" So evidently, his identity is something he wishes to carry over to VL. Why? Because it is important to him.
But, how can I expect you to even read *your* own statements? Right, your color is white...
No, you are quite tiresome. Your obvious attempts to taunt and flame me into an argument simply destroy any attempt by others to have a reasonable and open discussion about this.
You seem to think acting like a rude moron is acceptable, just because you hide behind a computer, but it isnt. If you are 'supporting' the OP, then fine,I certainly wouldnt want a person like you supporting me. In truth though, you obviously arnt supporting anyone, you are just looking for a fight. You are rude, abusive, and ignorant. Other people can read what I posted and see the truth, so I feel no need to justify it to you and I feel no need to be drawn into a petty argument with you by throwing personal insults back and forth.
I am done with you. Post what you like, I won't be responding to you any further.
I find no reason to search for gay gamers. I am black. I have no reason to search for other black gamers specifically. I just need people who think similar to me in a few tings in life. When I sit down to play a game, sex is not one of the things on my mind.
The only thing I find in common between all gay people is sex. As for everything in life, they are as similar as any het and bi person.
Cox is the place for gaymers for sure. However some of those guilds can be scary due to fetish wear heroes/villians and cyborz in Pocket D.
I give Elikal a cookie for being such a good sport. ^_^ And pretty much this is why I don't talk about being transgendered (genderqueer or whatever, pretty much I consider myself not a guy, but I do accept that I'm male, bleh) and/or bisexual, because I often become a target for stupid questions or ridicule (oddly from hyper-masculine gay guys... o_O). Sometimes, it's just best to separate your RL from your MMO life if that makes any sense. -- Brede
Thankies for the nice cookie. ^^
As to the rest of the debate I can only quote the famous words of John Wayne:
"I have lived my life so I get the love of my family, the respect of my friends and the rest can do whatever the hell they want."
Maybe we talk less ABOUT people. Someone was asking a thing and this isnt anyones point to question his validity of the request. Its ok to ask and I have tried to answer. Its not my problem that you dont agree with the answer or like the answer, but let it rest with it, cause its the only answer you'll get. With all respect. All talk about what might be good in an ideal world is theory and belongs to a philosophical forum.
People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert
I give Elikal a cookie for being such a good sport. ^_^ And pretty much this is why I don't talk about being transgendered (genderqueer or whatever, pretty much I consider myself not a guy, but I do accept that I'm male, bleh) and/or bisexual, because I often become a target for stupid questions or ridicule (oddly from hyper-masculine gay guys... o_O). Sometimes, it's just best to separate your RL from your MMO life if that makes any sense. -- Brede
Thankies for the nice cookie. ^^
As to the rest of the debate I can only quote the famous words of John Wayne:
"I have lived my life so I get the love of my family, the respect of my friends and the rest can do whatever the hell they want."
Maybe we talk less ABOUT people. Someone was asking a thing and this isnt anyones point to question his validity of the request. Its ok to ask and I have tried to answer. Its not my problem that you dont agree with the answer or like the answer, but let it rest with it, cause its the only answer you'll get. With all respect. All talk about what might be good in an ideal world is theory and belongs to a philosophical forum.
I never liked John Wayne anyhow
Just to be clear though Elikal, I never questioned his right to ask, I merely question why he would want this... That seems comepletely legitimate to me in an open forum.
I am also not philosophising about an ideal world here, I am merely suggesting that change happens on a personal level and we are each responsible for representing our cause, whatever that may be, to the world according to the way we wish it to be perceived.
If you are seeking an integrated open society that people are respected and understood according to who they are, and not what they are, then maybe start working for one. It starts with you.
If you want a segregated closed off society of fear and prejudice, you only have to stay put in your clubs while other 'types' stay in theirs. If you do though, don't dare voice an opinion in 10 years time when nothing has changed and the haters still hate and the phobes are still phobes, because you will have done nothing to change that.
Originally posted by leshtricity Um. Whoever suggested Second Life, I think you missed the point. He didn't say, "Hi, I'm looking for an MMO where I can live out my sexual fantasies." In fact, I think it's kind of gross and biased that you'd even bring that up.
Right. 'Cuz "gaymers" would never, ever talk about sex or sexual things in an online video game right? They would never think some perverted thought or anything.
It might be biased. But you know what? ..I am more then entitled to be biased and think and say what I want. Just like the "gaymers". Imagine that.
The reason it is difficult to find gay gamers online is because homosexuality is such a very small minority of people on the planet. I think the gay population represents <1% of the total population of the U.S. for example. So to expect to find other gay gamers is a bit of a long shot, unless you belong to a gay guild or something like that.
Even the most sceptic researches estimate around 4%, in big cities (gays leave rural places often for obvious reasons) up to 10%. No reasonable research ever found anything but the fact the percentage is the same in all cultures and ages, so its likely genetic. Then there is a variance of about 20% bi people. Its somewhat like the Gauss Normal distribution curve.
@vesavius: yes in the ideal world we would all mix and mingle and be accepted. But we all live in the real world. Sometimes I am just tired to be alert and in combat stance, then I go to a club I know I dont have to be, just for a time to relax. Its not so much unlike you go out with the boys and no girlfriends from time to time. Its not about finding a boyfriend. Its about finding a place where you can be 100% sure to be accepted and not fight, argue, discuss or what. I dont mind discuss sometimes, but sometimes I just dont want to be alert and ready to face verbal combats. Thats just how reality is.
Still quite a minority. Unless geneticists find the gene or genes responsible for homosexuality, then nobody can conclude logically that it is genetic. Regardless, my point is still sound.
This is retarded. By your logic, we couldn't have concluded that brown hair was a genetic trait until we found the genes for brown hair.
Obviously retarded is the word - no other way to put it. We knew hair color, eye color, skin tone, and a variety of other traits (including many diseases, such as diabetes) were genetic long before we sequenced the genome.
The same methods we used to determine that brown hair is genetic work on 'gay' as well. Identical twins tests have shown that if one identical twin is gay, the other one has an ~50% chance of sharing that orientation. While this is obviously less than their 99+% chance of sharing hair color, its a heck of a lot higher than the general population. The conclusion that homosexuality has a large genetic component is accepted in scientific circles, even if it remains controversial in political circles (similar to evolution, actually).
Well, I would agree that your explanation is retarded. Hair color, eye color, skin tone, are all about how somebody looks. Homosexuality is a behavior. Also the genes have been identified for hair color, eye color, etc. etc. This hasn't been done with homosexual behavior. And no, it isn't accepted in scientific circles that homosexuality is strictly genetic. Biologists would be dishonest to agree that homosexuality is 100% genetically caused since it hasn't been demonstrated empirically yet. If you need to look up any words here (like empirical) please see www.dictionary.com
You also may want to discover what the scientific method is all about, a little research may do you good.
If you can give me the gene or genes responsible for homosexuality then by all means email me at [email protected]
Um. Whoever suggested Second Life, I think you missed the point. He didn't say, "Hi, I'm looking for an MMO where I can live out my sexual fantasies." In fact, I think it's kind of gross and biased that you'd even bring that up.
Right. 'Cuz "gaymers" would never, ever talk about sex or sexual things in an online video game right? They would never think some perverted thought or anything.
It might be biased. But you know what? ..I am more then entitled to be biased and think and say what I want. Just like the "gaymers". Imagine that.
- Zaxx
Well, you also have the right to forgo bathing on a daily basis but I doubt anyone will see that as a good thing if they have to share a crowded elevator with you....
You're suggestion about Second Life was a very deliberate and altogether public brain fart, for lack of a better term. Straight people also discuss sex publicly to one degree or another and, it's assumed, our lives do not revolve around sex. Why should gay people be considered any different in this regard?
Then again, we already know that you have hang ups about sex and are uncomfortable with the whole subject. I actually find this to be amusing, anachronistic, quaint even, but seems that others don't share my sense of humor.
actually, i find that to be very amusing and there are people who do share your sense of humor. I may be new to this thing, but i feel the same way u do. The name is Rain by the way. just looking for some mmo's and cool peeps to chat wit.
Comments
Lady, you consider being confrontational, inflammitory, and prejudiced being a 'good sport'? hooookaaay.... Whatever you say.
On to you saying saying that you don't talk about your orientation in a game... Well, why would you if you don't want to? Thats your business and has nothing to do with playing a game, and thats part of my point. The game has nothing to do with sexual orientation, and to base guilds around such a thing is very confusing to me.
It's interesting that you say that a certain type of gay guy (hmm... not so 'like minded' now are we?) is the 'worst' for asking questions and making comments. These are the guys that would be drawn to a 'gay friendly' guild right?
This would defeat the object of having such a guild? Right?
Um excuse me, have you *read* what he stated? He hasn't been confrontational at all, nor prejudicial considering he is *gay* and has explained his positioned, despite others pulling out the horse pucky stereotypes of 'swish' gay people. So, before you even post again, read what he stated through the thread, otherwise, you can go on ignore.
-- Brede
Even the most sceptic researches estimate around 4%, in big cities (gays leave rural places often for obvious reasons) up to 10%. No reasonable research ever found anything but the fact the percentage is the same in all cultures and ages, so its likely genetic. Then there is a variance of about 20% bi people. Its somewhat like the Gauss Normal distribution curve.
@vesavius: yes in the ideal world we would all mix and mingle and be accepted. But we all live in the real world. Sometimes I am just tired to be alert and in combat stance, then I go to a club I know I dont have to be, just for a time to relax. Its not so much unlike you go out with the boys and no girlfriends from time to time. Its not about finding a boyfriend. Its about finding a place where you can be 100% sure to be accepted and not fight, argue, discuss or what. I dont mind discuss sometimes, but sometimes I just dont want to be alert and ready to face verbal combats. Thats just how reality is.
Still quite a minority. Unless geneticists find the gene or genes responsible for homosexuality, then nobody can conclude logically that it is genetic. Regardless, my point is still sound.
LadyAttis, you go and be who ever the hell you wanna be.
To break it down for everyone, as long as you're not hurting anyone else with the way you want to live, then you just go ahead and do it - if it makes you happy. That's all there is to life. If people want to make gay guilds, then let them. Who cares?
Until we as the collective human race can learn to view people without differentiating them, or labeling them (colour, religion, sexuality, etc), we will never progress as a species. Seriously, give it a try. Just look at people as people, individuals. Not as a black person, or a gay person, or a gamer person. Trust me, once you learn to look at people as just people - as great or as dumb as we are - you'll be as happy as a pig in poo-mud.
Homosexuality is just a sexual preference i dont know why they need their special cliques and its a crime to say anything against them, its the same thing as if a guy likes fat chicks theres no crimes against bashing a chubby chaser.
The problems begin once you segment a group of people, it doesn't matter if you're talking about gay people, black people or left handed people. If your desire is to garnish a certain level of attention (for the sake of attention) or in some cases special treatment you're going to run into issues.
Massive Multiplayer games are going to have a little bit of everyone, but its about everyone and not special interest groups. Recognizing a group of people doesn't originate from them trying to segment themselves its about them offering something that benefits everyone.
The Old Timers Guild
Laid back, not so serious, no drama.
All about the fun!
www.oldtimersguild.com
An opinion should be the result of thought, not a substitute for it. - Jef Mallett
Even the most sceptic researches estimate around 4%, in big cities (gays leave rural places often for obvious reasons) up to 10%. No reasonable research ever found anything but the fact the percentage is the same in all cultures and ages, so its likely genetic. Then there is a variance of about 20% bi people. Its somewhat like the Gauss Normal distribution curve.
@vesavius: yes in the ideal world we would all mix and mingle and be accepted. But we all live in the real world. Sometimes I am just tired to be alert and in combat stance, then I go to a club I know I dont have to be, just for a time to relax. Its not so much unlike you go out with the boys and no girlfriends from time to time. Its not about finding a boyfriend. Its about finding a place where you can be 100% sure to be accepted and not fight, argue, discuss or what. I dont mind discuss sometimes, but sometimes I just dont want to be alert and ready to face verbal combats. Thats just how reality is.
This is retarded. By your logic, we couldn't have concluded that brown hair was a genetic trait until we found the genes for brown hair.Still quite a minority. Unless geneticists find the gene or genes responsible for homosexuality, then nobody can conclude logically that it is genetic. Regardless, my point is still sound.
Obviously retarded is the word - no other way to put it. We knew hair color, eye color, skin tone, and a variety of other traits (including many diseases, such as diabetes) were genetic long before we sequenced the genome.
The same methods we used to determine that brown hair is genetic work on 'gay' as well. Identical twins tests have shown that if one identical twin is gay, the other one has an ~50% chance of sharing that orientation. While this is obviously less than their 99+% chance of sharing hair color, its a heck of a lot higher than the general population. The conclusion that homosexuality has a large genetic component is accepted in scientific circles, even if it remains controversial in political circles (similar to evolution, actually).
In every country and in every age, the priest has been hostile to liberty. He is always in alliance with the despot, abetting his abuses in return for protection to his own.
-Thomas Jefferson
If I wanted a woman with the body of ten year old boy, I'd just date a ten year old boy.
There's also no law against bashing dogs that chase bones either.
I can kinda see where you're coming from though. If they're constantly insecure about their weight then they'll have lower self esteem which will make them lower their expectations and maybe even be grateful that they're in a relationship at all. Malnutrition also keeps 'em weak so that they can't fight back to well when you decide that "no" means "yes."
And yeah, I like women that are little on the heavy side.
Um excuse me, have you *read* what he stated? He hasn't been confrontational at all, nor prejudicial considering he is *gay* and has explained his positioned, despite others pulling out the horse pucky stereotypes of 'swish' gay people. So, before you even post again, read what he stated through the thread, otherwise, you can go on ignore.
-- Brede
Yes. yes, I read what he stated. Please stop trying to tell me what I can and can't do here on these forums.
I feel he has been confrontational by using insulting words like 'stupid' etc, SHOUTING at me in caps, using exclamation marks!!!! and being prejudiced by making assumptions about who I am and why I feel why I feel without even asking me about where I am coming from.
Gay people cannot be confrontational or prejudiced? lol, Gay people can be amongst the most confrontational and prejudicial people that I know. You arnt immune to these conditions.
Did he ever ask me if I 'belonged' to a 'minority' before he challenged my right to assert my view about being in one?
No.
Lady, if you cannot stand to see or try to comprehend other PoVs other then your own then by all means put me on ignore if you choose. I personally think that I have been rational, balanced, and respectful. It really dosent matter at all..
The only people that can make a 'ideal world' are the peple that live in it imo. As a wise man once said, all it takes for evil to win is for good men to do nothing... or something similar anyhow.
I do hear where you are coming from tho, we all need to chill out and relax, but the point being made here is that if you make things as 'gay guilds' then you are promoting it as a 'wierd' and seperate thing to be, when in fact you would be helping all gays by promoting a positive and balanced way of being by joining a 'normal' guild and being a good person
If you really wanna relax in an MMORPG and not answer questions about being gay, if you really wanna opt out of the whole thing, just don't talk about your sexual orientation. It's that easy.
We are all just here to play games after all.
Thank you for the balanced reply
Alot of intresting points being made in this post, but i can't help but feel it has been lessened by alot of counter posts claiming that people giving there views/opinons on weather the fact a gay guild would be a negative thing in a MMO are being branded as Homophobic. I think there are to many people on these forums that would rather act like the good guy and defend the 'underdogs' regardless of the suitation, rather than give thier honest opinions. I can understand that people with a specific intrest would like a place to speak with out being hassled for it but i dont see the need for an entire guild dedicated for it, i was in a guild in WoW that had several gay members in it and instead of wanting to make a specific guild they decided to make a seperate chat channel for it, were not only gay members form our guild but from any other guild could speak in it. This to me seem to be a better way of doing (if possible in your chosen game) as this allows you to not be limited by guild choice and let you play with the people you enjoy as well as having a place to speak openly. Unfortunatly the channel did eventually have to be remade and passworded as it was harassed by the occasional kiddie, but thats is the way of WoW.
I'd personally have to give my cookie Vesavius. He's given hes honest opnion, in my eyes none of it has been homophobic (if anythign hes trying to help) and even under attack by a couple of people atleast he's still trying to clarify hes point in a rational and mature manner
And good for you X, to pose as the voice or reason vs. the posers, making you no more than top poseur. V made some pretty fucked up comments, then decided to back them up with the "hey I am a minority toooooo. So you must accept mah lane" card. Sorry, that doesn't fly. This is a forum, you are judged by your comments and nothing more. If you want to clarify your position with real life commentary, do it up front. Don't expect anyone to pity your ass because you make a bigoted comment, only to use "well in RL I am ()" in your reply. Honestly, it makes you no less of a bigot. It only shows how bigotry exists in all forms of life. Spare your fellow () and use your bean before posting in a publlc forum, both of you...
To everyone else, if gay pixels bother you, perhaps you need to take a long hard look at your ego.
Played (more than a month): SWG, Second Life, Tabula Rasa, Lineage 2, Everquest 2, EvE, MxO, Ryzom.
Tried: WoW, Shadowbane, Anarchy Online, Everquest, WWII Online, Planetside
Beta: Lotro, Tabula Rasa, WAR.
I will be happy to be to judged by my words alone, if only people were capable of reading and understanding them. You obviously are not.
'Gay pixels'? hehe are you real?
Fucked up how? Bigoted how? Please clarify for me how calling for integration, discussion, and education is bigoted, because I am not getting it.
Your whole post is a fine example of how hearing isnt the same as listening.
I dont know.......maybe we should leave this to the gaymers. I just think its weird 90% of all posts here are done by non gaymers.
Um. Whoever suggested Second Life, I think you missed the point. He didn't say, "Hi, I'm looking for an MMO where I can live out my sexual fantasies." In fact, I think it's kind of gross and biased that you'd even bring that up.
Anyways. Did anyone else get an immature giggle when people mentioned CoX?
the official MMORPG.com deadhead
I will be happy to be to judged by my words alone, if only people were capable of reading and understanding them. You obviously are not.
'Gay pixels'? hehe are you real?
Fucked up how? Bigoted how? Please clarify for me how calling for integration, discussion, and education is bigoted, because I am not getting it.
Your whole post is a fine example of how hearing isnt the same as listening.
If you didn't claim to be a minority, then don't swing the smelly fish. You are being evasive only for arguments sake, which may give you the wiggle room in a forum, but makes you no less of a deutsch. You want to argue that players will have no problem if they keep it our of game, well, that is not what the OP asked now, is it? This don't ask, don't tell is quite tiresome. The debate of genetics is tiresome. The debate of why people mix rl with vl is tiresome. The OP asked, "where can I find a gay friendly guild/game?" So evidently, his identity is something he wishes to carry over to VL. Why? Because it is important to him.But, how can I expect you to even read *your* own statements? Right, your color is white...
Played (more than a month): SWG, Second Life, Tabula Rasa, Lineage 2, Everquest 2, EvE, MxO, Ryzom.
Tried: WoW, Shadowbane, Anarchy Online, Everquest, WWII Online, Planetside
Beta: Lotro, Tabula Rasa, WAR.
I will be happy to be to judged by my words alone, if only people were capable of reading and understanding them. You obviously are not.
'Gay pixels'? hehe are you real?
Fucked up how? Bigoted how? Please clarify for me how calling for integration, discussion, and education is bigoted, because I am not getting it.
Your whole post is a fine example of how hearing isnt the same as listening.
If you didn't claim to be a minority, then don't swing the smelly fish. You are being evasive only for arguments sake, which may give you the wiggle room in a forum, but makes you no less of a deutsch. You want to argue that players will have no problem if they keep it our of game, well, that is not what the OP asked now, is it? This don't ask, don't tell is quite tiresome. The debate of genetics is tiresome. The debate of why people mix rl with vl is tiresome. The OP asked, "where can I find a gay friendly guild/game?" So evidently, his identity is something he wishes to carry over to VL. Why? Because it is important to him.But, how can I expect you to even read *your* own statements? Right, your color is white...
No, you are quite tiresome. Your obvious attempts to taunt and flame me into an argument simply destroy any attempt by others to have a reasonable and open discussion about this.
You seem to think acting like a rude moron is acceptable, just because you hide behind a computer, but it isnt. If you are 'supporting' the OP, then fine,I certainly wouldnt want a person like you supporting me. In truth though, you obviously arnt supporting anyone, you are just looking for a fight. You are rude, abusive, and ignorant. Other people can read what I posted and see the truth, so I feel no need to justify it to you and I feel no need to be drawn into a petty argument with you by throwing personal insults back and forth.
I am done with you. Post what you like, I won't be responding to you any further.
I find no reason to search for gay gamers. I am black. I have no reason to search for other black gamers specifically. I just need people who think similar to me in a few tings in life. When I sit down to play a game, sex is not one of the things on my mind.
The only thing I find in common between all gay people is sex. As for everything in life, they are as similar as any het and bi person.
Cox is the place for gaymers for sure. However some of those guilds can be scary due to fetish wear heroes/villians and cyborz in Pocket D.
As to the rest of the debate I can only quote the famous words of John Wayne:
"I have lived my life so I get the love of my family, the respect of my friends and the rest can do whatever the hell they want."
Maybe we talk less ABOUT people. Someone was asking a thing and this isnt anyones point to question his validity of the request. Its ok to ask and I have tried to answer. Its not my problem that you dont agree with the answer or like the answer, but let it rest with it, cause its the only answer you'll get. With all respect. All talk about what might be good in an ideal world is theory and belongs to a philosophical forum.
People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert
As to the rest of the debate I can only quote the famous words of John Wayne:
"I have lived my life so I get the love of my family, the respect of my friends and the rest can do whatever the hell they want."
Maybe we talk less ABOUT people. Someone was asking a thing and this isnt anyones point to question his validity of the request. Its ok to ask and I have tried to answer. Its not my problem that you dont agree with the answer or like the answer, but let it rest with it, cause its the only answer you'll get. With all respect. All talk about what might be good in an ideal world is theory and belongs to a philosophical forum.
I never liked John Wayne anyhow
Just to be clear though Elikal, I never questioned his right to ask, I merely question why he would want this... That seems comepletely legitimate to me in an open forum.
I am also not philosophising about an ideal world here, I am merely suggesting that change happens on a personal level and we are each responsible for representing our cause, whatever that may be, to the world according to the way we wish it to be perceived.
If you are seeking an integrated open society that people are respected and understood according to who they are, and not what they are, then maybe start working for one. It starts with you.
If you want a segregated closed off society of fear and prejudice, you only have to stay put in your clubs while other 'types' stay in theirs. If you do though, don't dare voice an opinion in 10 years time when nothing has changed and the haters still hate and the phobes are still phobes, because you will have done nothing to change that.
Right. 'Cuz "gaymers" would never, ever talk about sex or sexual things in an online video game right? They would never think some perverted thought or anything.
It might be biased. But you know what? ..I am more then entitled to be biased and think and say what I want. Just like the "gaymers". Imagine that.
- Zaxx
Even the most sceptic researches estimate around 4%, in big cities (gays leave rural places often for obvious reasons) up to 10%. No reasonable research ever found anything but the fact the percentage is the same in all cultures and ages, so its likely genetic. Then there is a variance of about 20% bi people. Its somewhat like the Gauss Normal distribution curve.
@vesavius: yes in the ideal world we would all mix and mingle and be accepted. But we all live in the real world. Sometimes I am just tired to be alert and in combat stance, then I go to a club I know I dont have to be, just for a time to relax. Its not so much unlike you go out with the boys and no girlfriends from time to time. Its not about finding a boyfriend. Its about finding a place where you can be 100% sure to be accepted and not fight, argue, discuss or what. I dont mind discuss sometimes, but sometimes I just dont want to be alert and ready to face verbal combats. Thats just how reality is.
This is retarded. By your logic, we couldn't have concluded that brown hair was a genetic trait until we found the genes for brown hair.Still quite a minority. Unless geneticists find the gene or genes responsible for homosexuality, then nobody can conclude logically that it is genetic. Regardless, my point is still sound.
Obviously retarded is the word - no other way to put it. We knew hair color, eye color, skin tone, and a variety of other traits (including many diseases, such as diabetes) were genetic long before we sequenced the genome.
The same methods we used to determine that brown hair is genetic work on 'gay' as well. Identical twins tests have shown that if one identical twin is gay, the other one has an ~50% chance of sharing that orientation. While this is obviously less than their 99+% chance of sharing hair color, its a heck of a lot higher than the general population. The conclusion that homosexuality has a large genetic component is accepted in scientific circles, even if it remains controversial in political circles (similar to evolution, actually).
Well, I would agree that your explanation is retarded. Hair color, eye color, skin tone, are all about how somebody looks. Homosexuality is a behavior. Also the genes have been identified for hair color, eye color, etc. etc. This hasn't been done with homosexual behavior. And no, it isn't accepted in scientific circles that homosexuality is strictly genetic. Biologists would be dishonest to agree that homosexuality is 100% genetically caused since it hasn't been demonstrated empirically yet. If you need to look up any words here (like empirical) please see www.dictionary.comYou also may want to discover what the scientific method is all about, a little research may do you good.
If you can give me the gene or genes responsible for homosexuality then by all means email me at [email protected]
Right. 'Cuz "gaymers" would never, ever talk about sex or sexual things in an online video game right? They would never think some perverted thought or anything.
It might be biased. But you know what? ..I am more then entitled to be biased and think and say what I want. Just like the "gaymers". Imagine that.
- Zaxx
Well, you also have the right to forgo bathing on a daily basis but I doubt anyone will see that as a good thing if they have to share a crowded elevator with you....
You're suggestion about Second Life was a very deliberate and altogether public brain fart, for lack of a better term. Straight people also discuss sex publicly to one degree or another and, it's assumed, our lives do not revolve around sex. Why should gay people be considered any different in this regard?
Then again, we already know that you have hang ups about sex and are uncomfortable with the whole subject. I actually find this to be amusing, anachronistic, quaint even, but seems that others don't share my sense of humor.
Bring the rain!!!