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  • RollotamasiRollotamasi Member Posts: 898
    Originally posted by Elikal


     
    Originally posted by Rollotamasi


    Hmm, Good topic.  I am hoping to get in here now in case someone one starts flaming and the mods lock it.  My opinion on gay gamer is that... I don't care.  But wait, That has to be qualified.  I mean I REALLY don't care.  It is very common for people to say that they don't care about something when in reality they really do.  It tends to be the same type of people that say something like "I'm not a homophobe, I have a gay friend!"  It is the same types of people that say they aren't racist.  Then their daughter comes home with a black boyfriend and then all of a sudden it starts to bother them.
    Change is slow.  People will not come to terms with the idea of openly gay anythings until they have had to deal with it for a while.  I will say this however, gay gamers aren't doing themselves any favors on the acceptance front with the while GLBT guild thing.  This is why.
    How do you expect to be accepted into main stream "gaming society" when you do something like joining a guild that is for a specific group of people?  I already know the agruement that is coming next so let me go ahead and cut it off now.  I understand that most GLBT arent GLBT ONLY, they are GLBT friendly.  Guess what.  It doesn't matter.  When you advertise your guild as being GLBT then people are going to assume its for GLBT people.  For example,  If I open a bar and call it White Guys Place" even thought myself or anyone else that goes to the bar has any issue with minorities, how many black people do you think are even going to think about going there?
    There is a really simple solution to this problem.  Don't start GLBT guilds, start TOLERANT ones. I play a lot of BF2142 and its very common when joining a server that the server msg will be something like "We kick for racist, sexist and homophobic remarks.  RESPECT YOUR FELLOW GAMERS"
     
    This would gay gamers a LOT of trouble in the long run and other gamers wouldn't look at them like they are quite so snobby.

     

    Being in a gay guild is not so much because we miss tolerance. That never was my No 1 reason to go into a gay guild. But you can talk about gay matters openly. Its like some women sometimes want to go to a club or group only with other women - and I guess the same counts, in a different way, for straight males, who want to be among themselves from time to time as well.

    When you are a minority, you just know some topics do offend peeople. I mean, its not that people in a gay guild always talk about mature topics, but you know you can share personal things with similar people. I know for straight people its very hard to imagine how it is when almost everyone in society is NOT like you. No matter how kind or tolerant they are, some times you just want to be among your kind. Its not that we exclude straights. My GLBT guild always had about 10-15% straights, males and females. Often people brought their straight friends, brothers whatever. But they know we can talk open. Sometimes straight males just meet with other guys and make guys talk (god knows about what), and they prefer not to have heir girlfriends/wifes around for a few hours. Thats just how humans function.

    So its not being snobby, its very human. If you are straight, you are reaffirmed your lifestyle is ok from day one of your life. Your parents and EVERYONE you meet is straight, 99.9% of all characters in movies, books, novels... all assures your of your role, the way you are. Everyone expects you to be straight, even when they dont know you at all. When you are gay, you always have to clarify. You have no rolemodels whatsoever, and you NEVER know if the next person is tolerant or would like to gas you rather. Often being gay is like walking through a mine-field: you never know when a bomb detonates and the nice old man from the corner really would like to see you shot in real. You just dont know how it is! So while I learned to live with trouble and mostly shrug it off, understand its not a matter of snobism that we want to be among us and those friendly ones who know what club they join once and then.

    The fact that some people are offended by "gay talk" ( I know thats not exactly what you meant but I think we are both smart enough for you not to get offended by that) Then that really isn't your problem.  It's theirs.  The first key to be happy with yourself is to come to the understanding that some people will not like you for who you are.  If you have a "tolerant" guild as opposed to a "GLBT" guild your right.  Some people may be offended by the subject matter.  Maybe they will leave.  But in the end that isn't your problem.  The truly tolerant people aren't going to leave.  And then instead of having a guild that is about 90 percent GLBT and 10 percent straight, Your simply going to have a guild full of  wonderfully diverse  peoples that accept each other for who and what they are and REALLY don't care who is gay, black, white, etc. 

    But honestly, don't get me wrong, I do understand what you are talking about. My wifes uncle is gay.  Recently he brought his boyfriend on a family visit. My wifes family...for lack of a better term are pretty much rednecks.  They are generally pretty cool with him and say they don't care but they do.  Well, after talking with him for awhile I came to the concussion that he had a pretty good sense of humor.  We were both outside smoking just chatting and I asked him "So how does it feel to be the fag in a family full of rednecks"  He looked at me straight faced and said "Probably about the same as being the nigger in a family full of rednecks"  We both proceed to laugh for about 5 mins straight. 

    Me saying what I said and he saying what he said inside in front of a bunch of straight white people would have made them feel uncomfortable.  But this is just where you and I differ.  I wouldn't have cared.  Not because I enjoy making people feel uncomfortable, but because I think that when they saw that we were both OK with it then that would have been one more step towards true acceptance.

    The guy I ran a small corp with in EVE is gay.  We used to hound each other RELENTLESSLY.  He bought me a rather expensive ship and would only give it to me on the condition that I named it "The Cotton Barge".  I used to scour the internet for "Gay" pictures and spam his e-mail with him.  We would always go at each other in corp chat.  Some people we invited to the corp left because they were uncomfortable with the seemingly unending stream of racial slurs and homophobic comments coming out of our mouths.  Most stayed though.  I will admit that for a period of time people were uncomfortable but as time went on they began to change from those "I'm not a homophobe, I have a gay friend!" type of people to the "I don't care...I mean really, I don't care" type of people.

    -Currently looking forward to FFXIV

    -Currently playing EvE and Global Agenda

  • malachidarkmalachidark Member Posts: 93
    Originally posted by Aristea


     
    Originally posted by xXSeraphielX


     
    Originally posted by Aristea


     
    Originally posted by Delovely


     
    Thats because my idea is correct....too much idiots around who SHOULD keep to themselves instead of bashing or befouling someone else
    If I have a problem with black people, a problem with straight people or with women...do you think I am going to invade their thread and say they suck , or if I know /hear people in a game say "OMG...go die you ****"
    No, I leave them be

     

    You have a problem though.

    Actually in this situation would the problem not be yours? It is not another person responsibility to ensure that you are ok with them. It is your responsibility to let them know when you are uncomfortable. And Generally politely is the good way.

    You see, I don't mind that you are gay, as long as you aren't gay in my face. The issue with MMO's, is that often, between the retard kiddo's and the emo crybabies, being gay in barrens chat, might actually be in my face. Doing it over Ventrilo is even worse.

    I'm not saying you can't be gay, but I don't see black people going out of their ways to make contact with other black people either. The only ones that still do that are the Germans and the French...

    Actually almost every culture tries to find like minded people to team up with. I've seen German, French, Spanish, etc guilds formed based on language and so on. And while I cannot say that a black person might go out of their way to find a guild of black people it is not quite the same thing. Specialized guilds are generally based on language, religious beliefs, and in this case sexual preference. The reason for this is simply because it is nice to be able to relate with the people you game with. These are friendships you are building.

    So just be yourself and don't "turn gay" on ventrilo and you'll be fine everywhere..if you want to have voip sex with a gay guy, I dó recommend you to keep it outside my visual and hearing.

    "Turn Gay?", is this like some gay switch? I am fairly certain that this has nothing to do with the OP "Wanting to have VoIP sex with a gay guy" give me a break. I see that you made some attempt to remain mature through this.... but this last part just killed it. Perhaps you need to stop being so phobic, and realise that people have other beliefs/preferences than you. and that you are not suddenly going to catch "gay".


     I had to post in reply to this. Now for the record I am not gay, however I have many friends who are and family members. And it is this type of attitude that I have seen in people that has put them in the hospital before....... So, yes the OP is trying to find a guild of like minded people.... The purpose of this is so that he does not need to be in a guild with people like Aristea.... Hell more often than not I'de rather be in GLBT guild than most guilds, they are more tolerant, friendly, and generally open minded good people.

     

     

    xXSeraphielXx

     

    You misunderstood my point. I've had 2 gay friends and I still have a friend who might turn out to be gay, judging by his voice :P So basically I'm a gay magnet, but we have agreements about that. Don't "turn gay"on me. Which means, don't go wobble the hands , don't fling arms wildly in the air and say something that sounds so utterly gay I just HAVE to slap my hand in front of my eyes.

    There's a difference between being gay and showing off that you are a gay gay guy. I don't like the latter. The others can sit next to me and we can share soda...or beer.

     

    Besides, I'm Dutch, like thé gay country of the world -_-

    So....you're homophobic? Sounds like you're the one with the problem, not the gay people. Maybe they have a problem with you being all "macho" in their face, ever think about that?

    Currently Playing: Tabula Rasa
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    Gaming History: EQ, EQ2, SWG, EVE, Anarchy Online, CoX, GW, SRO, Rakion, Ryzom, WoW, Rappelz, Shadowbane, 9Dragons, DAoC, Dungeon Runners, DnD Online, Space Cowboy, LotRO, Vanguard, Fury, Hellgate
    Wanting to Play: WAR, TCoS, Darkfall, Aion

  • SunderSunder Member Posts: 334

     

    Originally posted by maskedweasel


     
    Originally posted by elvenangel


    Actually daarco  female and male players were BOTH flaming the post because its obvious feminist tripe that really has little place in MMOs where everyone's equal regardless of sexuality.
     
    And just for the reference it was girls that the thread shut down

     

    Well naturally both sexes are equal until it's time to pick up the check    oh man I went there!

    Joking though..

    I think it would be somewhat tough though, I mean you can't necessarily get into a game and spam the chats looking for other gay. .. playmates... no pun intended I assure you.   Not that I would be bothered about it being a gay thing per se, but moreso that you're limiting the playerbase that you can play with.

    Like if I were to say I only wanted to play with female gamers and would sit in a chat spammin all day, I probably would be flamed quite a bit.

    So, yes there are gaymers out there but how would one go about finding them indeed? Thus why I feel like one should keep sexual orientations to themselves until they feel comfortable with their group.

     

    Yeah, I was a part of that feminist thread to, until a moderator deleted my post for telling people to stop flaming the feminist so she would stop defending herself and get back in the kitchen.  Honestly, the nerve of some mods! *CoughSarcasmCough*  People were quick to flame her because she has gone on rants before, and is always amounts to propaganda.  This thread is very different.

    I am neither homophobic, nor chauvinist, I wish to make clear first.  In games, I do try to stay away from guilds and gatherings that profess and promote themselves to be "a Gay Guild" (Or GLBT whatever you wish to call it) or guilds that are "Female guilds" or any other "Special interest" guild.  I game to have an enjoyable escape from reality with like minded individuals, just like everyone else.  For me, those "Like minded individuals" are "Fellow gamers" regardless of race, creed, sexual orientation, etc.  (I draw the line at not liking Pie.  There are some things I simply won't tolerate) So for me, no offense meant to anyone, I think it would be better for the women, the minorities, the creeds, and yes... the "GLBT" to game just as gamers.  Intermingle with different people, ethnicities and sociological roles aside.  It is the ability to be in such environments and maintain healthy relationships that strengthens us, as well as others, and helps promote tolerance, as well as a greater understanding for others opinions and perspectives. "Special interest" guilds (Sorry if that is an offensive term to some, I know how easy peoples toes get stepped on these days) do not help the tolerance factor in the game world, or the real world, for that reason.  (Not going to say they do not help at ALL, everything can have some redeeming value for someone)

    Anyway, I respect the OP's desire to find people of common interest, as well as the posters who have followed.  I would gladly game along side most any of you.  Gaming should not be about our differences, it should be about or similarities.  The fact we are all HERE is a good start.

     

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  • QuantumQrackQuantumQrack Member UncommonPosts: 81

    The reason it is difficult to find gay gamers online is because homosexuality is such a very small minority of people on the planet.  I think the gay population represents <1% of the total population of the U.S. for example.  So to expect to find other gay gamers is a bit of a long shot, unless you belong to a gay guild or something like that.

  • dalevi1dalevi1 Member Posts: 829

    Originally posted by Aristea


     
    Originally posted by Delovely


     
    Thats because my idea is correct....too much idiots around who SHOULD keep to themselves instead of bashing or befouling someone else
    If I have a problem with black people, a problem with straight people or with women...do you think I am going to invade their thread and say they suck , or if I know /hear people in a game say "OMG...go die you ****"
    No, I leave them be

     

    You have a problem though. You see, I don't mind that you are gay, as long as you aren't gay in my face. The issue with MMO's, is that often, between the retard kiddo's and the emo crybabies, being gay in barrens chat, might actually be in my face. Doing it over Ventrilo is even worse.

    I'm not saying you can't be gay, but I don't see black people going out of their ways to make contact with other black people either. The only ones that still do that are the Germans and the French...

    So just be yourself and don't "turn gay" on ventrilo and you'll be fine everywhere..if you want to have voip sex with a gay guy, I dó recommend you to keep it outside my visual and hearing.



    You are the kind of guy the OP came here to try to avoid. How exactly do you define someone being "gay to your face?"

    Played (more than a month): SWG, Second Life, Tabula Rasa, Lineage 2, Everquest 2, EvE, MxO, Ryzom.

    Tried: WoW, Shadowbane, Anarchy Online, Everquest, WWII Online, Planetside

    Beta: Lotro, Tabula Rasa, WAR.

  • VesaviusVesavius Member RarePosts: 7,898

    To be honest, I don't even see the point of this thread.

    I don't play these games to find a relationship, so I don't see the use in looking for guilds or whatever based on sexual orientation... A good guild is a good guild and I personally would hate to lock myself into a social ghetto that was based on the fact the folks in it happen to like the same sexual practice as I do... Seems mad to me personally.

    I dunno... If I was gay I would probably wanna get out there, integrate, meet all types of people based on who they are, not who they sleep with, and represent myself to the best of my ability as a fun positive person who is proud of who and what they are.

    You want people to find out gay gamers are just like the rest of us? Or do you want them to point at your exclusive gay only guild and snigger? The way that I see it, by looking for a gay only guild you are setting up the latter.

  • ElikalElikal Member UncommonPosts: 7,912
    Originally posted by Calcedon


    The reason it is difficult to find gay gamers online is because homosexuality is such a very small minority of people on the planet.  I think the gay population represents <1% of the total population of the U.S. for example.  So to expect to find other gay gamers is a bit of a long shot, unless you belong to a gay guild or something like that.



    Even the most sceptic researches estimate around 4%, in big cities (gays leave rural places often for obvious reasons) up to 10%. No reasonable research ever found anything but the fact the percentage is the same in all cultures and ages, so its likely genetic. Then there is a variance of about 20% bi people. Its somewhat like the Gauss Normal distribution curve.

    @vesavius: yes in the ideal world we would all mix and mingle and be accepted. But we all live in the real world. Sometimes I am just tired to be alert and in combat stance, then I go to a club I know I dont have to be, just for a time to relax. Its not so much unlike you go out with the boys and no girlfriends from time to time. Its not about finding a boyfriend. Its about finding a place where you can be 100% sure to be accepted and not fight, argue, discuss or what. I dont mind discuss sometimes, but sometimes I just dont want to be alert and ready to face verbal combats. Thats just how reality is.

    People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert

  • upallnightupallnight Member Posts: 1,154

    OP, if you need someone to talk to or whatever, you're more than welcome to PM me.

    There are some gay guilds in games, but I don't usually join a guild just because it's an advertised "gay friendly" one.  There are some very open minded straight people out there.  My best male friend is straight.  He's got no problem with me at all and neither do my other straight buddies.  Heck, I live with 3 straight guys. 

    My point is, just try out a few guilds.  If they start with the bigot talk and don't quit when you voice your concerns, move on.  You'll find one you like soon.  Don't count all those other guilds out. 

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  • midgey555midgey555 Member Posts: 185

    Originally posted by Kenze

    Originally posted by Aristea


     
    Originally posted by xXSeraphielX


     
    Originally posted by Aristea


     
    Originally posted by Delovely


     
    Thats because my idea is correct....too much idiots around who SHOULD keep to themselves instead of bashing or befouling someone else
    If I have a problem with black people, a problem with straight people or with women...do you think I am going to invade their thread and say they suck , or if I know /hear people in a game say "OMG...go die you ****"
    No, I leave them be

     

    You have a problem though.

    Actually in this situation would the problem not be yours? It is not another person responsibility to ensure that you are ok with them. It is your responsibility to let them know when you are uncomfortable. And Generally politely is the good way.

    You see, I don't mind that you are gay, as long as you aren't gay in my face. The issue with MMO's, is that often, between the retard kiddo's and the emo crybabies, being gay in barrens chat, might actually be in my face. Doing it over Ventrilo is even worse.

    I'm not saying you can't be gay, but I don't see black people going out of their ways to make contact with other black people either. The only ones that still do that are the Germans and the French...

    Actually almost every culture tries to find like minded people to team up with. I've seen German, French, Spanish, etc guilds formed based on language and so on. And while I cannot say that a black person might go out of their way to find a guild of black people it is not quite the same thing. Specialized guilds are generally based on language, religious beliefs, and in this case sexual preference. The reason for this is simply because it is nice to be able to relate with the people you game with. These are friendships you are building.

    So just be yourself and don't "turn gay" on ventrilo and you'll be fine everywhere..if you want to have voip sex with a gay guy, I dó recommend you to keep it outside my visual and hearing.

    "Turn Gay?", is this like some gay switch? I am fairly certain that this has nothing to do with the OP "Wanting to have VoIP sex with a gay guy" give me a break. I see that you made some attempt to remain mature through this.... but this last part just killed it. Perhaps you need to stop being so phobic, and realise that people have other beliefs/preferences than you. and that you are not suddenly going to catch "gay".


     I had to post in reply to this. Now for the record I am not gay, however I have many friends who are and family members. And it is this type of attitude that I have seen in people that has put them in the hospital before....... So, yes the OP is trying to find a guild of like minded people.... The purpose of this is so that he does not need to be in a guild with people like Aristea.... Hell more often than not I'de rather be in GLBT guild than most guilds, they are more tolerant, friendly, and generally open minded good people.

     

     

    xXSeraphielXx

     

    You misunderstood my point. I've had 2 gay friends and I still have a friend who might turn out to be gay, judging by his voice :P So basically I'm a gay magnet, but we have agreements about that. Don't "turn gay"on me. Which means, don't go wobble the hands , don't fling arms wildly in the air and say something that sounds so utterly gay I just HAVE to slap my hand in front of my eyes.

    There's a difference between being gay and showing off that you are a gay gay guy. I don't like the latter. The others can sit next to me and we can share soda...or beer.

     

    Besides, I'm Dutch, like thé gay country of the world -_-

    do you hold yourself to the same standards? Do you "go hetero" in front of people?  Do you stare at a girls boobs or ass and say stuff like "Damn, id like to hit that." or talk about  other  stereotypical hetero stuff while grabbing your crotch, chewing tabacco and shooting your firearms?

    Thats a really odd picture you have of a hetero man.  Sounds like something you picked out of a really crappy movie or something.  Some people might...partly act like that but you basically just listed a redneck hetero pervert who talks semi "gangster". 

    Also its hard for people to "go hetero" on ventrillo.  Some of the 10 year olds flip out if a woman comes into vent but unless you have video chat your statement doesnt really old any value.

    On another note people make way too big of a deal about sexual orientation.  I had a friend in my guild on vanguard who I leveled up to 50 and finally found out much later he was gay.  He was still my friend and I had no idea he was gay, tbh it didnt matter at all.  On the other hand some try to flaunt it for some reason.  Grouped with someone on vanguard once who kept talking about his bf.  I said something about being scared because we almost died after a huge trian and it "puckered up my butthole" which my friends found hillarious in vent (he wasnt on vent) and I just said it as a joke.  He called me a tease after that, so he was really creeping me out.

  • AristeaAristea Member Posts: 181

     

    Originally posted by Rayx0r


     
    Originally posted by Aristea


     
    Originally posted by xXSeraphielX


     
    Originally posted by Aristea


     
    Originally posted by Delovely


     


     




     I had to post in reply to this. Now for the record I am not gay, however I have many friends who are and family members. And it is this type of attitude that I have seen in people that has put them in the hospital before....... So, yes the OP is trying to find a guild of like minded people.... The purpose of this is so that he does not need to be in a guild with people like Aristea.... Hell more often than not I'de rather be in GLBT guild than most guilds, they are more tolerant, friendly, and generally open minded good people.

     

     

    xXSeraphielXx

     

    You misunderstood my point. I've had 2 gay friends and I still have a friend who might turn out to be gay, judging by his voice :P So basically I'm a gay magnet, but we have agreements about that. Don't "turn gay"on me. Which means, don't go wobble the hands , don't fling arms wildly in the air and say something that sounds so utterly gay I just HAVE to slap my hand in front of my eyes.

    There's a difference between being gay and showing off that you are a gay gay guy. I don't like the latter. The others can sit next to me and we can share soda...or beer.

     

    Besides, I'm Dutch, like thé gay country of the world -_-

     

     

    You're making the OP's point.  Hes looking for a group of like minded people where he can be himself without the worries of someone getting offended because theyre straight.

    your comments are exactly the reason people like this feel the need to isolate themselves.  Your basically asking people to not be themselves in your presence because you find it offensive.  The OP is basically asking for a community where he can be himself (or being gay as you put it) without offending people such as yourself.

     

    Well I'm sorry mate, but a homosexual that goes ultra fucking gay on me, yes I do have a problem with that. Which has nothing to do with being intolerant, but with the fact that gay people can act normal. Normal in the sense that normal is controled. As in, talk, walk, listen and respond normally. If you want to be the girly gay guy with the giggles, you are faking it and you should gtfo.

    I've played Ragnarok online for 2 years with a gay guy and we got along quite well. He was a normal guy guy, who liked to make jokes about the size of his friends penis and we all had a laugh about it, with accompanying puke sounds ;)

    If you can't handle the way I deal with gay people, that's not my problem, but in my world, it works perfect.

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  • Zaxx99Zaxx99 Member Posts: 1,761


    Well I'm sorry mate, but a homosexual that goes ultra fucking gay on me, yes I do have a problem with that. Which has nothing to do with being intolerant, but with the fact that gay people can act normal. Normal in the sense that normal is controled. As in, talk, walk, listen and respond normally. If you want to be the girly gay guy with the giggles, you are faking it and you should gtfo. I've played Ragnarok online for 2 years with a gay guy and we got along quite well. He was a normal guy guy, who liked to make jokes about the size of his friends penis and we all had a laugh about it, with accompanying puke sounds ;) If you can't handle the way I deal with gay people, that's not my problem, but in my world, it works perfect.

    ...Are you sure this isn't more along those famous words that say.. "Birds of a like feather flock together"

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    - Zaxx

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  • klapdoorklapdoor Member UncommonPosts: 87

     



    Well I'm sorry mate, but a homosexual that goes ultra fucking gay on me, yes I do have a problem with that. Which has nothing to do with being intolerant, but with the fact that gay people can act normal. Normal in the sense that normal is controled. As in, talk, walk, listen and respond normally. If you want to be the girly gay guy with the giggles, you are faking it and you should gtfo.
    I've played Ragnarok online for 2 years with a gay guy and we got along quite well. He was a normal guy guy, who liked to make jokes about the size of his friends penis and we all had a laugh about it, with accompanying puke sounds ;)
    If you can't handle the way I deal with gay people, that's not my problem, but in my world, it works perfect.

     

    What you consider 'normal' is an opinion, created by personal, cultural, religious and many other influences. To make an example (on purpose an extreme example, so do not take it too personal): Someone who makes jokes about his (boy-)friends penis, would get him flogged and locked up at best, hanged at worst, in countries like Iran. That is 'normal' for them.

    Fact is, there are those who are homosexual who cannot help themselves but confirm the general media image people have: Flappy hands, high voice, feminine way of moving, etc... It is just the way they are. Just as there are those 'ultra straight' who do nothing else but guzzling beer, whistling at everything female that walks by (between ages 12-20, otherwise they are considered too old), cloth themselves in the same white shirt and blue jeans every day and are proud of their enormous beer belly. Again, that is just they way they are.

     

    Now personally, probably like many others, I cannot stand those who I have called 'ultra straight'. And yes, that makes me intolerant. But how can I ask them to change their behaviour (which is normal for them) because of my own intolerance? To project this on the original purpose of this thread: The OP is asking for a way of playing a MMO where he can be himself, in whichever way he is. You are saying to him: Sure, no problem. Just as long as you conform to my idea of how you should behave. This is the same as saying (again an extreme example and I apologize to all Germans in advance (but hey, you know how keen we Dutch are on using Germans in bad examples)): I have no problem with you being German. But do not speak any German and do not eat any Bratwurst or drink any Budweiser.

     

    In regards to you last sentence, I can only quote a definition on intolerance as found on http://www.thefreedictionary.com/intolerant

     

    a. Unwilling to tolerate differences in opinions, practices, or beliefs, especially religious beliefs.

    b. Opposed to the inclusion or participation of those different from oneself, especially those of a different racial, ethnic, or social background.

    c. Unable or unwilling to endure or support

  • AristeaAristea Member Posts: 181

    Well, that's pretty clear then isn't it :) By definition I'm an intolerant son of a bitch. That's fine with me, because it means the flappy handwaving showy gays stay away from me. My vision of normal, is to be moderate on both sides of the fence. I prefer staying away from the extreme end of my hetero side as well.

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  • daarcodaarco Member UncommonPosts: 4,275

    Seriously, i dont see why there is so much fuzz about this!

    The OP just want to play with likeminded people.......as almost everyone else is doing. In all MMOs you get invites from numeroues guilds, and you end up picking the one that suites you the best.

    Thats all thats to it. And im still amazed that this thread worked out so well.

    And i hope the OP have found some MMOs and guilds to play in now......after this many replys : )

     

  • klapdoorklapdoor Member UncommonPosts: 87

     

    Originally posted by daarco  
    Seriously, i dont see why there is so much fuzz about this!

    (To preface: This post is not directed at you personally Daarco, just that one sentence I quoted (the rest of your post I agree with completely) that illustrated perfectly how people do not understand how the situation has changed in the last few years. Especially in countries like the U.S. I guess I would just like to show with this post how valid his question is, while currently quite a lot of people in this thread think it is an unnecessary one)

     

    Just to chime in once more, there is quite a good reason why there is so much fuss about this. Contrary to popular belief there still is no general acceptance of homosexuality anywhere in the world. Even here in the 'oh so much lauded gay friendly' Netherlands, it is just minority which accepts it, another part just tolerates it (up to a point), but there still is quite a large group which is actively against it. And sadly, all over the world, the anti-homosexual sentiment is gaining ground again since the last 10 years. This is mainly due to belief systems like Christianity, the Islam and Judaism. These beliefs have gone on a rampage the last decade to stop the pro-homosexual movement from gaining momentum, and they succeeded. I won't go into a discussion into the rights or wrongs on this, as that will touch on ones personal beliefs and religion. The only thing I will say is that I cannot understand why they feel the need to do this....

    Besides the religion part, there is another huge factor that is playing part. Take the word 'gay'. These days that word is used to describe anything that is from stupid and wrong, to nasty and evil. Unfortunately I have even noticed that some mainstream television programs have started to use it in such a way.  And lastly, it must be admitted that the media image created since the 80's - the famous feminine, flappy handed, high pitched, camp idiots (yeah I call them idiots, and even worse, for all the image desctruction they have caused for the current new generation of homosexuals - has not helped either.

     

    Now consider the country where the OP lives in, the U.S. It has a government that is actively against homosexuality. It has religious movements which are actively campaigning against homosexuality in the most despicable ways (take for example: blogs.usatoday.com/ondeadline/2006/05/military_funera.html). And its youth is being learned that the most common used word for homosexuality, gay, is currently one of the most negative terms you can use. I can imagine that the OP would not willingly want to admit that he is gay in the guild chat if he does not know how people will react to it (even in a country like the Netherlands this can quite literally shock people into silence and some will distance themselves). But as with all social gatherings go, the subject will eventually (or more likely in regards to most WoW guilds: immediately) turn to girls and sex, as the majority of the gamers will be straight. And what will you do then...

    So yeah, I think the OP has a valid question and I think so far it has indeed been treated remarkably well...

  • gandalfonegandalfone Member Posts: 35

    I'm gay, I'm a gamer, but I don't look for gay gamers when I play. The problem is I don't care at all of the sexual orientation of my fellow gamers, it's enough they're a nice bunch of people with whom you can have fun (in the game, I mean :) )

     

    The important thing, I think, is that everybody should have the possibility, when chatting in game about real life, to be able to easily say "sorry, my boyfriend on the phone"  without being insulted for being gay.

    That's the only thing that matters for me, but I understand it's personal preferences here. I play in an Italian EQ2 guild, they all know I live with a guy, I can tell them "sorry, hold on, need to talk to my mate", and that's all I ask for in a game :)

    As far as those stupid people who use the word "gay" for "stupid" in WoW and other games, I find it unbearable, and I always insult them in general chat when I find some.

  • VesaviusVesavius Member RarePosts: 7,898

    Originally posted by daarco


    Seriously, i dont see why there is so much fuzz about this!
    The OP just want to play with likeminded people.......as almost everyone else is doing. In all MMOs you get invites from numeroues guilds, and you end up picking the one that suites you the best.
    Thats all thats to it. And im still amazed that this thread worked out so well.
    And i hope the OP have found some MMOs and guilds to play in now......after this many replys : )
     

    The only problem I have is that it dosent appear to want to play with 'like minded' people, he seems to want to play with people who have the same sexual orientation, which isnt the same thing at all.

    I have a lot of gay friends, of both genders, and the one thing that links them is that they are not alike at all. To suggest all gay peeps are 'likeminded' is silly to me... They come in all flavours, just as hetros come in all flavours. I have never chosen my friends based on sexual orientation, and the fact that others do so is confusing to me. 

    Can you imagine if I created a exclusively hetrosexual guild that openly banned gays from joining, because 'they wernt of our mindset'? Can you picture the uproar?

    Like I have said before, it is confusing to me why gay gamers want to lock themselves into social ghettos. To my mind it is far better to integrate into our society  and educate the more ignorant through postive behaviour then it is to create and hide away in seperate guilds...

    Your only giving their ignorance ammunition.

  • AristeaAristea Member Posts: 181

    Originally posted by gandalfone



    As far as those stupid people who use the word "gay" for "stupid" in WoW and other games, I find it unbearable, and I always insult them in general chat when I find some.

    I'm guilty, but I dó always apologize to the gay friends I have when saying it. I simply can't and don't really have the urge to, get rid of "omg that's gay". Freedom of speech ftw.

    image

  • EmberRainEmberRain Member Posts: 73
    Originally posted by Sunder
      (I draw the line at not liking Pie.  There are some things I simply won't tolerate)



    Hahahahaha, I call shenanigans!  Sunder married a brownie lover, and he groups with me online all the time!  Huzzah for the brownie lovers!!!  I guess this serves as proof that EVERYONE can get along. ;)

  • todeswulftodeswulf Member Posts: 715

     

    Originally posted by Aristea


     
    Originally posted by gandalfone



    As far as those stupid people who use the word "gay" for "stupid" in WoW and other games, I find it unbearable, and I always insult them in general chat when I find some.

     

    I'm guilty, but I dó always apologize to the gay friends I have when saying it. I simply can't and don't really have the urge to, get rid of "omg that's gay". Freedom of speech ftw.

     

    Umm there is a bit of hypocrisy here I think, the word gay was Hijacked by the homosexual community  in the 70's. The definition of gay means lighthearted or happy, it has nothing to do with sexual preference.  Why can one group use it to mean sexual preference and another can't use it to mean Stupid, messed up, etc....?

    Also to each there own but why in the hell do Homosexuals have to put their sexuality in everything?" I'm going for Ice-cream..are there any gay friendly Ice Cream parlors out there?"  Just go get a damn cone man.  I absolutely adore red headed women with huge tits....that's my sexual preference, but I don't try to incorporate that  in everything I do.

    And latley anyone that has the balls to say this is labled a Homophobe...that's so gay.

     

  • ElikalElikal Member UncommonPosts: 7,912

    Originally posted by vesavius


     
    Originally posted by daarco


    Seriously, i dont see why there is so much fuzz about this!
    The OP just want to play with likeminded people.......as almost everyone else is doing. In all MMOs you get invites from numeroues guilds, and you end up picking the one that suites you the best.
    Thats all thats to it. And im still amazed that this thread worked out so well.
    And i hope the OP have found some MMOs and guilds to play in now......after this many replys : )
     

     

    The only problem I have is that it dosent appear to want to play with 'like minded' people, he seems to want to play with people who have the same sexual orientation, which isnt the same thing at all.

    I have a lot of gay friends, of both genders, and the one thing that links them is that they are not alike at all. To suggest all gay peeps are 'likeminded' is silly to me... They come in all flavours, just as hetros come in all flavours. I have never chosen my friends based on sexual orientation, and the fact that others do so is confusing to me. 

    Can you imagine if I created a exclusively hetrosexual guild that openly banned gays from joining, because 'they wernt of our mindset'? Can you picture the uproar?

    Like I have said before, it is confusing to me why gay gamers want to lock themselves into social ghettos. To my mind it is far better to integrate into our society  and educate the more ignorant through postive behaviour then it is to create and hide away in seperate guilds...

    Your only giving their ignorance ammunition.


    Sorry, but thats the most stupid thing I have read in this thread. If you knew a bit more what the mask which is your icon stood for, you wouldnt say such a thing.

    First, it is everyone's right to seek people of a like minded way of life, based on whatever. Why do YOU have a problem when people open a group thats outspoken friendly towards a minority? Its not directed against anyone, nor are straights excluded. None of these guilds is GLBT ONLY, its GLBT FRIENDLY. In none of these guilds straights were banned.

    You just dont know what you are talking about. Going to a "normal" guild as gay man just means to invite constant questions and comments. Its a fact. Just understand a minority wants its niches where we can be as we are for a time without constant questions. You either understand it or no, but what you say is just BS. Straight dont need exclusive clubs because they already HAVE one: its called society. If you all were so tolerant as you claim, why all the fuzz when some gay men meet in a club of their own? 

    The fuzz people like you make is just bad masked anger, and the root of all anger is fear, fear your ideal of masculinity is questioned. If ppl like you were just so confident and tolerant like you claim we wouldnt HAVE this debate.

    Finally, a person asked for a club with a specific preferrence. If you are into BDSM for example, you go to a club where others like that. If you are catholic, you go into a catholic club. If a person seeks a special interest club, that is nobodies friggin business, and its not to anyone to question his request! If you like that or not is of zero matter, you have to respect that and thats all about it. Just stop nosing into things you have zero to say about and which you just CAN NOT understand when you do not belong to a minority.

    This thread shows exactly why we gay people often prefer to be in gay friendly clubs: to be SAVE of debates LIKE THIS.

    People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert

  • daarcodaarco Member UncommonPosts: 4,275

    Sorry : (

     

  • DracisDracis Member Posts: 434

    Well, to address the OP's topic, I believe at one time there was a rather large presence of the GLBT type guild in SW:G. Due to what happened with the game though, I'm not sure of their presence anymore because I no longer play.

    I just wanted to add, as someone pointed out, there is a difference between this thread and the religion thread going on in this same forum. The OP in the religous thread started it to state his beliefs on his religion, while trying to mask it by asking a question. When even asked simple questions that seemed more probing than the OP liked or that possibly stated a contrary position, he ignored them or claimed it was "off topic". This thread on the other hand has been much more mature for the most part, and unlike the other thread I believe the OP here was very sincere in him just trying to find some like minded indivduals.

  • VesaviusVesavius Member RarePosts: 7,898
    Originally posted by Elikal


     
    Originally posted by vesavius


     
    Originally posted by daarco


    Seriously, i dont see why there is so much fuzz about this!
    The OP just want to play with likeminded people.......as almost everyone else is doing. In all MMOs you get invites from numeroues guilds, and you end up picking the one that suites you the best.
    Thats all thats to it. And im still amazed that this thread worked out so well.
    And i hope the OP have found some MMOs and guilds to play in now......after this many replys : )
     

     

    The only problem I have is that it dosent appear to want to play with 'like minded' people, he seems to want to play with people who have the same sexual orientation, which isnt the same thing at all.

    I have a lot of gay friends, of both genders, and the one thing that links them is that they are not alike at all. To suggest all gay peeps are 'likeminded' is silly to me... They come in all flavours, just as hetros come in all flavours. I have never chosen my friends based on sexual orientation, and the fact that others do so is confusing to me. 

    Can you imagine if I created a exclusively hetrosexual guild that openly banned gays from joining, because 'they wernt of our mindset'? Can you picture the uproar?

    Like I have said before, it is confusing to me why gay gamers want to lock themselves into social ghettos. To my mind it is far better to integrate into our society  and educate the more ignorant through postive behaviour then it is to create and hide away in seperate guilds...

    Your only giving their ignorance ammunition.


    Sorry, but thats the most stupid thing I have read in this thread. If you knew a bit more what the mask which is your icon stood for, you wouldnt say such a thing.

    Ok, first, lets take a breath here and treat each other with some respect. Starting using words like 'stupid' with regards to others posts is only gonna make you look bad.

    You mean my 'V for Vendetta' icon? Well, I like to think that I have a pretty good grasp of the central themes of the comic. well, I did when I met Alan Moore and talked about it when I lived in Northampton, England...

    I am sorry if my interpretation of it's meaning isnt the same as yours.

    First, it is everyone's right to seek people of a like minded way of life, based on whatever.

    Of course it is. But I will repeat, you are not discussing like minded people here, you are discussing people with the same sexual orientation.

    I grew up in a gay relationship, have a gay housemate, and several good gay friends of both genders. They are all different people with very different interests, politics, hobbies, ambitions, aims and goals.

    I can honestly say that not one of them shares a stereotyped mindset with the others.

    Why do YOU have a problem when people open a group thats outspoken friendly towards a minority? Its not directed against anyone, nor are straights excluded. None of these guilds is GLBT ONLY, its GLBT FRIENDLY. In none of these guilds straights were banned.

    I don't.

    I merely stated that I get confused when people hide away in ghettoised clubs. I just stated that I believe this leads to ignorance and prejudice. I simply argued that integration and education is the way forward.

    Why are you so angry at these ideas?

    You just dont know what you are talking about. Going to a "normal" guild as gay man just means to invite constant questions and comments.

    Why not use this obvious interest of others as an opportunity to promote a postive image of what a gay man or woman can be?

    Why shy away from questions that can be used to remove ignorance.

    Its a fact.

    No, it's just your view.

    Just understand a minority wants its niches where we can be as we are for a time without constant questions. You either understand it or no, but what you say is just BS.

    Why be so rude here?

    Again, I ask, why are you so angry at me? Because I see things differently to you?

    Straight dont need exclusive clubs because they already HAVE one: its called society.

    This isnt 1970 anymore is it? Society and popular culture is hardly anti-gay... Of course, there is homophobics out there, but they have been marginalised to a massive extent. The world is moving on, it just appears some don't want it to...

    I guess it just suits some to feel like victims.

    If you all were so tolerant as you claim, why all the fuzz when some gay men meet in a club of their own? 

    I have explained this already.

    I didnt cause a 'fuzz'. I simply stated that segregation leads to ignorance.

    Please don't get all dramatic.

    The fuzz people like you make is just bad masked anger, and the root of all anger is fear, fear your ideal of masculinity is questioned. If ppl like you were just so confident and tolerant like you claim we wouldnt HAVE this debate.

    Where is my anger in any of this?

    Again, I am confused.

    I honestly do not think you understand a word I actually am saying.

    I honestly think it just suits you more to hear what you want me to be saying.

    Finally, a person asked for a club with a specific preferrence.

    Ok...

    If you are into BDSM for example, you go to a club where others like that.

    Yes, you go to a club to have sex with other people who share that sexual fetish. Thats understandable. Thats the core meaning of that club.

    Guilds meet up to play MMORPGs. Since when did sexual preference have anything to do with this.

    I have never seen a guild in these games that has openly declared it's self 'sado-masochist' friendly....

    If you are catholic, you go into a catholic club.

    Here you are confusing a sexual orientation with a belief system.

    They are not the same thing at all.

    Catholics have more chance to think alike because they prolly share the same core philosophy.

    Gay people do not.

    If a person seeks a special interest club, that is nobodies friggin business, and its not to anyone to question his request!

    Of course it's my right to question it, his is an open forum.

    What isnt your right is to stop my questioning of it.

    Read V for Vendetta again maybe.

    If you like that or not is of zero matter, you have to respect that and thats all about it.

    Says you?

    Just stop nosing into things you have zero to say about and which you just CAN NOT understand when you do not belong to a minority.

    How can you say this when you don't know me?

    Am I disabled? Do I understand discrimination and prejudice?

    Did you stop to think?

    Or did you just prejudge me based on your ignorant preconcieved notions?

    This thread shows exactly why we gay people often prefer to be in gay friendly clubs: to be SAVE of debates LIKE THIS.

    No, this little debate happened because of the existance of your clubs. You cannot see this? Truly?

    One last time.

    Integration and education.

    Discussion and questions are a good thing.

     

  • ladyattisladyattis Member Posts: 1,273

    I give Elikal a cookie for being such a good sport. ^_^

    image

    And pretty much this is why I don't talk about being transgendered (genderqueer or whatever, pretty much I consider myself not a guy, but I do accept that I'm male, bleh) and/or bisexual, because I often become a target for stupid questions or ridicule (oddly from hyper-masculine gay guys... o_O). Sometimes, it's just best to separate your RL from your MMO life if that makes any sense.

    -- Brede

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