Great idea lets just blame it on America thta way we can pawn off all responsibility for supporting this mediocrity onto a nation instead of blaming yourselves for buying this crap. Heres a simple idea, stop buying the half finished crappy MMO's and supporting this mediocre middle of the road unimaginetive stuff that gets pushed out. The only to vote here is with your wallet, what you choose to spend your money on sends the message of what you want not buying games tahtr suck then complaining about it while you continue toi play. I am not saying that everyone does this but enopugh do that it affects how games are made. Take Vanguard for instance (yes i am going to pick on it because it is a shining example of selling a turd) after over a year of being released they managed to get it to a state that it should have been at release and enough people put up with it that it some how survived. The longer people put up with unfinished games and the more that continue to play them the more of them you will see.
I would not say that I am blaming America, but you have to admit that once corporate America gets you hooked and they realize they got you......thats when they start pushing out the crap. It's kind of like a slot machine that hits big right when you get on it, then sucks away all your money for the next 30 minutes.
I personally have not invested any money in an MMO for over a year. I have been waiting for the next great thing. Everything though that I read on the new ones, sound like a lesser remake of an older but better game.
Anytime big business get's their hands on anything, they squash all creativity and innovation out if if.
At that point one must realize that they are being spoon fed poo and spit it out it is the responsibility of the consumer to vote with his or her wallet if you are gonna keep buyibng something that is crappy i would sell it to you too.
It seems as though the American theme of Mediocrity has infilitrated the MMO gaming industry. I was hoping that it would end with the music and television industries, but apparently the MMO industry has jumped on the bandwagon. Nothing released in the past 3-4 years has been on par with previous MMO releases. It seems like they will eventually be dumbed down to the likes of network-based first person shooters. I think that most older players would agree with me, but many younger players are content with the garbage that is being shoved down their throats for their instant gratification. I want an MMO that will keep me enthralled for more than 2 weeks. Is their anything on the horizon that will accomplish this? I think not. My hopes for a TRUE MMO has been squashed like a bug under the boot of the MMO factories.
Wait I've seen this post before... a couple hundred times.
But you are right, nothing released in the past 3-4 years has been on par with previous MMO releases..
They've raised the bar.
I've been around longer then most, played all the "old school" games to my hearts content when they were in their infancy. Do I miss parts of them? Different aspects? Of course. Do I hate different parts of them and are glad that those issues are no longer issues in modern MMOs? Of course.
The "glory days" of MMOs weren't really all that glorious. We are CURRENTLY in the glory days. We have more MMO players, more games to choose from, more games on the horizon, and over all better games.
You're stuck in the past man.
You have two options:
a) continue to sound like a grandfather lamenting in the "good old days" without realizing they're never coming back
b) be optimistic about the future, adapt to what is available, hope for the future
Pretty much, don't waste time dreaming about the past, look forward to the future, use your vote (dollars) and your voice (forums/beta boards etc.) to help shape the future of the industry.
All you are doing is complaining. No one likes that. (you and every other poster like the OP who has written this exact same post)
I do not think it is a case of the games being mediocre, per se, it is a case of the gamers becoming jaded.
A decade ago MMORPGs in their current incarnation were starting to come out and a lot of us were being introduced to a fairly new form of gaming. Thus, we were fascinated by it.
Now, the genre has aged and so have we. The newness has worn off and we want the feeling of a decade ago back. Well, it is not going to happen, I am afraid.
Look at other genres of video games, like the traditional turn-based RPG. What have some big ones been? Dragon Quest/Warrior 1, Final Fantasy VI, Final Fantasy VII, and that is about it. They have barely evolved either, yet we do not complain nearly as much. In a way, we expect a certain formula, which, in a way, is what a genre is - a basic formula.
I think since MMORPGs are supposed to be more engrossing as they are a persistent world, our standards are higher. We look at them as having infinite shelf life, while we know games from other genres are only meant to entertain us for 5-100 hours, then be fondly remembered. Now we complain when an MMORPG only is fun for a year - a year! I think it is still an incredible feat.
How much more can the genre really do that is innovative? There comes a point where you are not going to see revolution, merely evolution, and evolution is not as thrilling. I think that while we should hold developers accountable, we also need to hold ourselves accountable. If we go into every new MMORPG expecting something totally new and amazing that will rock our world, we will be disappointed. That is a feeling you only get once, whether it be from beginning with EverQuest in 1999 or World of Warcraft in 2004, and subsequent games will not recapture that.
Anyway, here's to hoping 2008 will have some good titles.
It seems as though the American theme of Mediocrity has infilitrated the MMO gaming industry. I was hoping that it would end with the music and television industries, but apparently the MMO industry has jumped on the bandwagon. Nothing released in the past 3-4 years has been on par with previous MMO releases. It seems like they will eventually be dumbed down to the likes of network-based first person shooters. I think that most older players would agree with me, but many younger players are content with the garbage that is being shoved down their throats for their instant gratification. I want an MMO that will keep me enthralled for more than 2 weeks. Is their anything on the horizon that will accomplish this? I think not. My hopes for a TRUE MMO has been squashed like a bug under the boot of the MMO factories.
Wait I've seen this post before... a couple hundred times.
But you are right, nothing released in the past 3-4 years has been on par with previous MMO releases..
They've raised the bar.
I've been around longer then most, played all the "old school" games to my hearts content when they were in their infancy. Do I miss parts of them? Different aspects? Of course. Do I hate different parts of them and are glad that those issues are no longer issues in modern MMOs? Of course.
The "glory days" of MMOs weren't really all that glorious. We are CURRENTLY in the glory days. We have more MMO players, more games to choose from, more games on the horizon, and over all better games.
You're stuck in the past man.
You have two options:
a) continue to sound like a grandfather lamenting in the "good old days" without realizing they're never coming back
b) be optimistic about the future, adapt to what is available, hope for the future
Pretty much, don't waste time dreaming about the past, look forward to the future, use your vote (dollars) and your voice (forums/beta boards etc.) to help shape the future of the industry.
All you are doing is complaining. No one likes that. (you and every other poster like the OP who has written this exact same post)
Just how have they "raised the bar"? Graphics? I am not lamenting about the good old days, as much as I am disappointed in the games that are being released.
I have been looking forward to the future, but there is nothing on the horizon. If you want to be content with the mediocre, then that's your perrogative. I myself am not.
It seems as though the American theme of Mediocrity has infilitrated the MMO gaming industry. I was hoping that it would end with the music and television industries, but apparently the MMO industry has jumped on the bandwagon. Nothing released in the past 3-4 years has been on par with previous MMO releases. It seems like they will eventually be dumbed down to the likes of network-based first person shooters. I think that most older players would agree with me, but many younger players are content with the garbage that is being shoved down their throats for their instant gratification. I want an MMO that will keep me enthralled for more than 2 weeks. Is their anything on the horizon that will accomplish this? I think not. My hopes for a TRUE MMO has been squashed like a bug under the boot of the MMO factories.
Wait I've seen this post before... a couple hundred times.
But you are right, nothing released in the past 3-4 years has been on par with previous MMO releases..
They've raised the bar.
I've been around longer then most, played all the "old school" games to my hearts content when they were in their infancy. Do I miss parts of them? Different aspects? Of course. Do I hate different parts of them and are glad that those issues are no longer issues in modern MMOs? Of course.
The "glory days" of MMOs weren't really all that glorious. We are CURRENTLY in the glory days. We have more MMO players, more games to choose from, more games on the horizon, and over all better games.
You're stuck in the past man.
You have two options:
a) continue to sound like a grandfather lamenting in the "good old days" without realizing they're never coming back
b) be optimistic about the future, adapt to what is available, hope for the future
Pretty much, don't waste time dreaming about the past, look forward to the future, use your vote (dollars) and your voice (forums/beta boards etc.) to help shape the future of the industry.
All you are doing is complaining. No one likes that. (you and every other poster like the OP who has written this exact same post)
Just how have they "raised the bar"? Graphics? I am not lamenting about the good old days, as much as I am disappointed in the games that are being released.
I have been looking forward to the future, but there is nothing on the horizon. If you want to be content with the mediocre, then that's your perrogative. I myself am not.
Well you are talking about you opinions and that doesn't make it the criteria by which anyone else had to live their lives. Your opinions may be right for you, but that doesn't make them valid for anyone else. You want to feel disappointed great for you. You have a right to feel miserable about situations which don't live up to YOUR standards.
Originally posted by Kvothe Originally posted by ianubisi It's amazing to me how people expect exponential growth, complexity, innovation, and depth release after release. Nothing works that way, folks. Truly innovative, genre-challenging, unique products (in any sector) are VERY rare. Don't hold your breath for this stuff. It comes along once every 5-10 years.
Innovation requires commitment and creativity. I think the gaming industry itself has made many innovations over the past several years, just not in the MMO fields. I think it is not as rare as you think, but it is probably rare in America because that is how our society works nowadays.
Yeah, Portals wasnt innovative enough for you? Or Nebula whatever it was called, that Portals is originally based on.
Time and Commitment usually brings along quite some creativity. All companies that have a good infrastructure and the time to invest money in innovation seems to come long ways. Companies such as LEGO has used this tactic many times.
Mediocrity in MMOs is not chiefly an American trait. Just look at the hundreds of Korean grindfests, or the disaster that was Dark and Light (developed by a French company)
Just how have they "raised the bar"? Graphics? I am not lamenting about the good old days, as much as I am disappointed in the games that are being released.
I have been looking forward to the future, but there is nothing on the horizon. If you want to be content with the mediocre, then that's your perrogative. I myself am not.
Server-wide (and in some cases, cross-server) auction houses and global chat.
Instancing for more directed, lag-free, "kill-stealing" free, story-driven content.
Side-kick/mentoring systems, allowing friends of differing progress to still play together.
I could go on and on, though I suspect some of what I'd call genuine innovation, others might consider "dumbing down." It's all in the eye of the beholder.
Originally posted by hanshotfirst Originally posted by Kvothe Just how have they "raised the bar"? Graphics? I am not lamenting about the good old days, as much as I am disappointed in the games that are being released.
I have been looking forward to the future, but there is nothing on the horizon. If you want to be content with the mediocre, then that's your perrogative. I myself am not.
Server-wide (and in some cases, cross-server) auction houses and global chat.
Instancing for more directed, lag-free, "kill-stealing" free, story-driven content.
Side-kick/mentoring systems, allowing friends of differing progress to still play together.
I could go on and on, though I suspect some of what I'd call genuine innovation, others might consider "dumbing down." It's all in the eye of the beholder.
By no means would I call any of those innovation. It's just applying old techniques to new applications. Instanced content is just taking the "outdoor" events and put them in a lag free environment, as if you were playing over LAN with 4 or 5 of your friends, like in Diablo 2 or any other online RPG.
The other things you mentioned is what I would call improvements as you mention yourself.
If I were to say any game were innovative, they would need to have some sort of revamping of the combat system, gameplay, storyline or any other of the core elements of a game. Not the small bits, like instances, or interfaces.
Just how have they "raised the bar"? Graphics? I am not lamenting about the good old days, as much as I am disappointed in the games that are being released.
I have been looking forward to the future, but there is nothing on the horizon. If you want to be content with the mediocre, then that's your perrogative. I myself am not.
Server-wide (and in some cases, cross-server) auction houses and global chat.
Instancing for more directed, lag-free, "kill-stealing" free, story-driven content.
Side-kick/mentoring systems, allowing friends of differing progress to still play together.
I could go on and on, though I suspect some of what I'd call genuine innovation, others might consider "dumbing down." It's all in the eye of the beholder.
LOL....auction houses is an innovation? Auction houses are crap. The economy in SWG had terminals on every corner where you could by and trade. Auction houses are a cheap way to handle a player based economy.
Most of the things you have listed are not new and have been around for years.
Mediocrity in MMOs is not chiefly an American trait. Just look at the hundreds of Korean grindfests, or the disaster that was Dark and Light (developed by a French company)
Well ok, I will give you that. We are slightly better than Korea! A country that has been in turmoil and civil unrest for the past 100 years.
It seems as though the American theme of Mediocrity has infilitrated the MMO gaming industry. I was hoping that it would end with the music and television industries, but apparently the MMO industry has jumped on the bandwagon. Nothing released in the past 3-4 years has been on par with previous MMO releases. It seems like they will eventually be dumbed down to the likes of network-based first person shooters. I think that most older players would agree with me, but many younger players are content with the garbage that is being shoved down their throats for their instant gratification. I want an MMO that will keep me enthralled for more than 2 weeks. Is their anything on the horizon that will accomplish this? I think not. My hopes for a TRUE MMO has been squashed like a bug under the boot of the MMO factories.
Wait I've seen this post before... a couple hundred times.
But you are right, nothing released in the past 3-4 years has been on par with previous MMO releases..
They've raised the bar.
I've been around longer then most, played all the "old school" games to my hearts content when they were in their infancy. Do I miss parts of them? Different aspects? Of course. Do I hate different parts of them and are glad that those issues are no longer issues in modern MMOs? Of course.
The "glory days" of MMOs weren't really all that glorious. We are CURRENTLY in the glory days. We have more MMO players, more games to choose from, more games on the horizon, and over all better games.
You're stuck in the past man.
You have two options:
a) continue to sound like a grandfather lamenting in the "good old days" without realizing they're never coming back
b) be optimistic about the future, adapt to what is available, hope for the future
Pretty much, don't waste time dreaming about the past, look forward to the future, use your vote (dollars) and your voice (forums/beta boards etc.) to help shape the future of the industry.
All you are doing is complaining. No one likes that. (you and every other poster like the OP who has written this exact same post)
Just how have they "raised the bar"? Graphics? I am not lamenting about the good old days, as much as I am disappointed in the games that are being released.
I have been looking forward to the future, but there is nothing on the horizon. If you want to be content with the mediocre, then that's your perrogative. I myself am not.
Well you are talking about you opinions and that doesn't make it the criteria by which anyone else had to live their lives. Your opinions may be right for you, but that doesn't make them valid for anyone else. You want to feel disappointed great for you. You have a right to feel miserable about situations which don't live up to YOUR standards.
And you have your right to be content with the Mediocre. I think my opinion is valid for a large portion of MMO gamers. The point is I DON'T want to feel disppointed, but how can you not when the average MMO is released 6 months earlier than they should. My standards are simple:
1) Give me a game that is immersive and doesn't hold my hand through ever friggin thing.
2) Give me a game that is finished.
3) Give me a game that is new, not just last night's meatloaf with some extra ketchup on top.
I feel that I we have not seen any releases for a few years now that were brand idea. Maybe I missed something?
If you played the old Red Alert C&C series you realised that was one and since those early games nothing changed but the units one can build, but the gameplay stayed very much the same.
Same with single player or multiplayer fps games, you shoot and you still keep shooting, maybe the quality of the game changes gfx wise or some slight changes in the teamplay or classes, but at the end of the day you do the same thing: shoot.
Later MMOs are the same, environment changes maybe but healers/tanks/dps are the same kind of classes, quests are mainly killx, get x, lvl and craft if you are lucky to have a game with descent crafting.
Yes, I was one of those noobs who joined mmos when wow arrived, not proud of it because I realise now what I missed out on by playing RTS and FPS games before WoW, the birth of MMOs, the real beggining of a genre.
However since I finished playing WoW I had the opportunity to try out other MMos and yes, they are are all very simmilar in the actual gameplay and some truly suck( tabula rasa, archlord, gods and heroes)
I think we are all waiting for something completely new here, something noone has ever seen, but I can't seen any such game coming out.
Creating one and failing with it is something investors do not want to see, they go for the tried and tested and try to "improve" upon it somehow so they can call it "new generation".
Great idea lets just blame it on America thta way we can pawn off all responsibility for supporting this mediocrity onto a nation instead of blaming yourselves for buying this crap. Heres a simple idea, stop buying the half finished crappy MMO's and supporting this mediocre middle of the road unimaginetive stuff that gets pushed out. The only to vote here is with your wallet, what you choose to spend your money on sends the message of what you want not buying games tahtr suck then complaining about it while you continue toi play. I am not saying that everyone does this but enopugh do that it affects how games are made. Take Vanguard for instance (yes i am going to pick on it because it is a shining example of selling a turd) after over a year of being released they managed to get it to a state that it should have been at release and enough people put up with it that it some how survived. The longer people put up with unfinished games and the more that continue to play them the more of them you will see.
I would not say that I am blaming America, but you have to admit that once corporate America gets you hooked and they realize they got you......thats when they start pushing out the crap. It's kind of like a slot machine that hits big right when you get on it, then sucks away all your money for the next 30 minutes.
I personally have not invested any money in an MMO for over a year. I have been waiting for the next great thing. Everything though that I read on the new ones, sound like a lesser remake of an older but better game.
Anytime big business get's their hands on anything, they squash all creativity and innovation out if if.
In that case, just play games that don't come from America. Problem solved.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
It seems as though the American theme of Mediocrity has infilitrated the MMO gaming industry. I was hoping that it would end with the music and television industries, but apparently the MMO industry has jumped on the bandwagon. Nothing released in the past 3-4 years has been on par with previous MMO releases. It seems like they will eventually be dumbed down to the likes of network-based first person shooters. I think that most older players would agree with me, but many younger players are content with the garbage that is being shoved down their throats for their instant gratification. I want an MMO that will keep me enthralled for more than 2 weeks. Is their anything on the horizon that will accomplish this? I think not. My hopes for a TRUE MMO has been squashed like a bug under the boot of the MMO factories.
Wait I've seen this post before... a couple hundred times.
But you are right, nothing released in the past 3-4 years has been on par with previous MMO releases..
They've raised the bar.
I've been around longer then most, played all the "old school" games to my hearts content when they were in their infancy. Do I miss parts of them? Different aspects? Of course. Do I hate different parts of them and are glad that those issues are no longer issues in modern MMOs? Of course.
The "glory days" of MMOs weren't really all that glorious. We are CURRENTLY in the glory days. We have more MMO players, more games to choose from, more games on the horizon, and over all better games.
You're stuck in the past man.
You have two options:
a) continue to sound like a grandfather lamenting in the "good old days" without realizing they're never coming back
b) be optimistic about the future, adapt to what is available, hope for the future
Pretty much, don't waste time dreaming about the past, look forward to the future, use your vote (dollars) and your voice (forums/beta boards etc.) to help shape the future of the industry.
All you are doing is complaining. No one likes that. (you and every other poster like the OP who has written this exact same post)
Just how have they "raised the bar"? Graphics? I am not lamenting about the good old days, as much as I am disappointed in the games that are being released.
I have been looking forward to the future, but there is nothing on the horizon. If you want to be content with the mediocre, then that's your perrogative. I myself am not.
Well you are talking about you opinions and that doesn't make it the criteria by which anyone else had to live their lives. Your opinions may be right for you, but that doesn't make them valid for anyone else. You want to feel disappointed great for you. You have a right to feel miserable about situations which don't live up to YOUR standards.
And you have your right to be content with the Mediocre. I think my opinion is valid for a large portion of MMO gamers. The point is I DON'T want to feel disppointed, but how can you not when the average MMO is released 6 months earlier than they should. My standards are simple:
1) Give me a game that is immersive and doesn't hold my hand through ever friggin thing.
2) Give me a game that is finished.
3) Give me a game that is new, not just last night's meatloaf with some extra ketchup on top.
You opinions are not FACTS they are opinions. Don't speak for anyone else but yourself. You are not the voice of the community you are the voice of yourself. You have to understand, what you like isn't "the right way" nor does it make people's different opinions "the wrong way".
The MMORPG community as an industry has been growing and I don't see that stopping any time soon. It may not live up to your way of thinking, but that is what it is in any case.
Yeah I would have to agree there is a lot of mediocrity in mmo's.
Games released buggy and without polish. Lack of innovation. Same game over and over with different paint job. And the paint job, well it's usually the same brown earth tones over and over.
I think this is really reflected in the character creation of these games. Usually it seems you just pick from some preselected heads and then choose your hair. But sometimes they give you facial sliders where you can pick between boring clone of everyone else and god awful ugly. So everyone ends up looking the same anway and the sliders are useless. And whats with the plethora of lame hair styles. And how come girl avatars can't have more long hair options. And how about sliders for breasts, arms, shoulders, chest, legs, instead of the generic build tab with 3 options. We should be able to chose our avatars voice and we should have TONS of emotes. LOTRO is so lazy with regards to the emotes, it drives me crazy. What the heck
Games should be fun and exciting. There should be a chance for something awesome to drop off a regular mob now and again. It's like pulling the lever on a slot machine. If you think you have a chance at hitting the big one it adds more excitement. But some games, LOTRO for instance, its bla bla bla drops. Crap for the vendor or maybe to sell on the auction house.
LOL....auction houses is an innovation? Auction houses are crap. The economy in SWG had terminals on every corner where you could by and trade. Auction houses are a cheap way to handle a player based economy.
Most of the things you have listed are not new and have been around for years.
The terminals or "Bazaar" was originally limited to strictly inexpensive items, and its own database. It wasn't until much later in the game's development that it included a search mechanic for viewing player vendors (though you still can't actually purchase via the Bazaar terminal).
Since then, auction houses have come a long way. Whether it's EVE Online, City of Heroes, or the new Pirates of the Burning Sea, the basic mechanics have evolved quite a bit. Developers have become much more savvy about player economies.
While it's fair that you might not view this as true "innovation," I assure you that many active players appreciate the improvements none the less.
Originally posted by Kvothe Well ok, I will give you that. We are slightly better than Korea! A country that has been in turmoil and civil unrest for the past 100 years.
Boy you're ignorant.
America has faced more "civil unrest" in the scant 200+ years of its existence, than Korea has for generations. Hell, they're one of our few allies still supporting our coalition in Iraq. You should be a little bit more charitable before ripping on an entire culture over a flipping video game.
There was an interview with Brian Fargo a few months back (one of the founders of Interplay).
Biggest reason is the cost of production (according to him).
It cost so much to create these products, that a failed product can sink a company.
How many companies that try to create a MMO go bankrupt.. How many MMO's from a small under funded company actually make it.
Investors or Corporations look for "sure things".
Which is why you see games based on popular IP's etc etc
There is no innovation because... nobody wants to fund 10's of millions of dollars and see it do the circular slide down the drain. Its called taking "chances" and not many places that can fund you.. are willing to take a chance.
As to the OP..
how exactly is any of this related to America?
Where is this country that has such awesome movies, music and MMO's ? Because I can't find it...
It seems as though the American theme of Mediocrity has infilitrated the MMO gaming industry. I was hoping that it would end with the music and television industries, but apparently the MMO industry has jumped on the bandwagon. Nothing released in the past 3-4 years has been on par with previous MMO releases. It seems like they will eventually be dumbed down to the likes of network-based first person shooters. I think that most older players would agree with me, but many younger players are content with the garbage that is being shoved down their throats for their instant gratification. I want an MMO that will keep me enthralled for more than 2 weeks. Is their anything on the horizon that will accomplish this? I think not. My hopes for a TRUE MMO has been squashed like a bug under the boot of the MMO factories.
Wait I've seen this post before... a couple hundred times.
But you are right, nothing released in the past 3-4 years has been on par with previous MMO releases..
They've raised the bar.
I've been around longer then most, played all the "old school" games to my hearts content when they were in their infancy. Do I miss parts of them? Different aspects? Of course. Do I hate different parts of them and are glad that those issues are no longer issues in modern MMOs? Of course.
The "glory days" of MMOs weren't really all that glorious. We are CURRENTLY in the glory days. We have more MMO players, more games to choose from, more games on the horizon, and over all better games.
You're stuck in the past man.
You have two options:
a) continue to sound like a grandfather lamenting in the "good old days" without realizing they're never coming back
b) be optimistic about the future, adapt to what is available, hope for the future
Pretty much, don't waste time dreaming about the past, look forward to the future, use your vote (dollars) and your voice (forums/beta boards etc.) to help shape the future of the industry.
All you are doing is complaining. No one likes that. (you and every other poster like the OP who has written this exact same post)
Just how have they "raised the bar"? Graphics? I am not lamenting about the good old days, as much as I am disappointed in the games that are being released.
I have been looking forward to the future, but there is nothing on the horizon. If you want to be content with the mediocre, then that's your perrogative. I myself am not.
Well you are talking about you opinions and that doesn't make it the criteria by which anyone else had to live their lives. Your opinions may be right for you, but that doesn't make them valid for anyone else. You want to feel disappointed great for you. You have a right to feel miserable about situations which don't live up to YOUR standards.
And you have your right to be content with the Mediocre. I think my opinion is valid for a large portion of MMO gamers. The point is I DON'T want to feel disppointed, but how can you not when the average MMO is released 6 months earlier than they should. My standards are simple:
1) Give me a game that is immersive and doesn't hold my hand through ever friggin thing.
2) Give me a game that is finished.
3) Give me a game that is new, not just last night's meatloaf with some extra ketchup on top.
You opinions are not FACTS they are opinions. Don't speak for anyone else but yourself. You are not the voice of the community you are the voice of yourself. You have to understand, what you like isn't "the right way" nor does it make people's different opinions "the wrong way".
The MMORPG community as an industry has been growing and I don't see that stopping any time soon. It may not live up to your way of thinking, but that is what it is in any case.
whoa whoa whoa people. All I was trying to say, is that:
1. Yes- everyone is entitled to their opinion, I've heard people like the OP try and convince others that their opinion is somehow "better" or "more right" waaaaayyy too many times. It's all about tone, in a text only environment, the words you use dictate tone. "dumbed down" "mediocre" "garbage" words like these make you sound very ignorant and high-and-mighty, like your opinion is better then others.
2. NO - "old school" sandbox games like old UO and pre-NGE SWG will never be made again. It sucks, I wouldn't mind a GOOD sandbox game with a good community (instead of a bunch of a$$hat gankers) but it's not going to happen, so you might as well get over it now, like I have, instead of living a life of MMO disappointment.
Great idea lets just blame it on America thta way we can pawn off all responsibility for supporting this mediocrity onto a nation instead of blaming yourselves for buying this crap. Heres a simple idea, stop buying the half finished crappy MMO's and supporting this mediocre middle of the road unimaginetive stuff that gets pushed out. The only to vote here is with your wallet, what you choose to spend your money on sends the message of what you want not buying games tahtr suck then complaining about it while you continue toi play. I am not saying that everyone does this but enopugh do that it affects how games are made.
How much economics have you studied? If you've taken even an introductory level macroeconomics course you'd realize, the MMO industry is indeed following a specifically american approach. There's an excellent essay by a former harvard economist named John Kenneth Galbraith called "The Affluent Society". The premise is, our economy is operating under 19th century european theories of production over everything. This is fine when you have an impoverished population who are more concerned the basic necessities of life, such as food, clothing, and shelter. Since those commodities are in demand and essential for life, little was invested in innovative approaches. The devices that ushered in the industrial revolution (the cotton gin and the steam engine for 2 specific instances) were not developed by or with the support of the industries that benefited most from them, they we're developed by normal workers with flashes of brilliance who wanted to ease their workload. In a society that's struggling to clothe, feed, adn house it's population, this is fine.. but we're beyond that stage and our economic strategies have failed to develop beyond that. Production remains king while innovation falls by the way side. The WoW model has shown success and that's why you will see WoW clone after WoW clone. Innovation is not rewarded the way production is, so developers take the path of least resistance and copy successful business models, with merely derivative products. Take the american auto industry. Our cars continue to get awful gas mileage, the body model may change, but there hasn't been anything truly innovative in years. Each year, our auto industry falls further and further behind foriegn auto makes for this very reason. They are locked into a production mindset and refuse to embrace innovation. It's industry that refuses to innovate once they find a successful business model, not consumers.
How much economics have you studied? If you've taken even an introductory level macroeconomics course you'd realize, the MMO industry is indeed following a specifically american approach. There's an excellent essay by a former harvard economist named John Kenneth Galbraith called "The Affluent Society". The premise is, our economy is operating under 19th century european theories of production over everything. This is fine when you have an impoverished population who are more concerned the basic necessities of life, such as food, clothing, and shelter. Since those commodities are in demand and essential for life, little was invested in innovative approaches. The devices that ushered in the industrial revolution (the cotton gin and the steam engine for 2 specific instances) were not developed by or with the support of the industries that benefited most from them, they we're developed by normal workers with flashes of brilliance who wanted to ease their workload. In a society that's struggling to clothe, feed, adn house it's population, this is fine.. but we're beyond that stage and our economic strategies have failed to develop beyond that. Production remains king while innovation falls by the way side. The WoW model has shown success and that's why you will see WoW clone after WoW clone. Innovation is not rewarded the way production is, so developers take the path of least resistance and copy successful business models, with merely derivative products. Take the american auto industry. Our cars continue to get awful gas mileage, the body model may change, but there hasn't been anything truly innovative in years. Each year, our auto industry falls further and further behind foriegn auto makes for this very reason. They are locked into a production mindset and refuse to embrace innovation. It's industry that refuses to innovate once they find a successful business model, not consumers.
Spoken like someone whose read a few articles, maybe even take a class or two from some liberal professor.
You are right, to some extent, but that's only a small piece of the pie. The rabbit whole goes much, much deeper.
The MMO industry is one that is unlike every other sector of the economy except for the movie business.
Massive front end investment means that the investors need some guarantee that they'll get their money back and make a profit. Same is true in the movie and MMO business.
How does Hollywood handle this problem? Big name directors, big name actors, big name productions. The MMO industry is the same way. Big name companies, big name developers, big name IPs.
But, in the movie biz, occasionally we get a product that has limited production costs, but ends up a huge hit due to innovation / creativity. Or a huge, expensive production that lives up to the hype. Same in MMOs.
Do these innovative / creative writers/directors/actors sit down and say "I'm going to do something innovative/creative today!" Sometimes, if they are cocky a-holes. But most of the time, it's something that "just happens." Like Boondock Saints. Cult phenomenon.
WoW is an example of something that "just happen" that got bigger and more successful then anything else around. But Blizzard was smart, they got some great devs, a great IP, and the backing of a great company to tilt the odds in their favor that they'd strike it rich.
You can't force the next big thing. You can't beg for it. You can't even ask for it. It's futile.
whoa whoa whoa people. All I was trying to say, is that: 1. Yes- everyone is entitled to their opinion, I've heard people like the OP try and convince others that their opinion is somehow "better" or "more right" waaaaayyy too many times. It's all about tone, in a text only environment, the words you use dictate tone. "dumbed down" "mediocre" "garbage" words like these make you sound very ignorant and high-and-mighty, like your opinion is better then others. 2. NO - "old school" sandbox games like old UO and pre-NGE SWG will never be made again. It sucks, I wouldn't mind a GOOD sandbox game with a good community (instead of a bunch of a$$hat gankers) but it's not going to happen, so you might as well get over it now, like I have, instead of living a life of MMO disappointment.
Concerning your second point: I think there are thousands of MMO gamers that would love to play and subscribe monthly to a sandbox type of MMO. You can just peruse this forum (and other forums on other sites) to get the simple idea that people would likely pay to play a sandbox type of MMO. Given this, I am not really sure why you would suggest that a sandbox type of MMO would never be made again; you gave no reason why this is the case (your opinion is ok, but unsupported opinions are far worse).
It is simple economics really. If a gaming company does a bit of research and comes to the conclusion that many MMO gamers (maybe even gamers in general) would want to play an immersive sandbox type MMO, then they could simply build it and reap the economic rewards if it is indeed good.
Comments
Is it really? Better just means its better. Someone could have an opinion that a Pontiac was better than a BMW, but that just means their stupid.
Their stupid what?
Or did you mean the contraction for "they are"?
LOL...look at me the pot calling the kettle black. I never was one for grammar.
I personally have not invested any money in an MMO for over a year. I have been waiting for the next great thing. Everything though that I read on the new ones, sound like a lesser remake of an older but better game.
Anytime big business get's their hands on anything, they squash all creativity and innovation out if if.
At that point one must realize that they are being spoon fed poo and spit it out it is the responsibility of the consumer to vote with his or her wallet if you are gonna keep buyibng something that is crappy i would sell it to you too.
Wait I've seen this post before... a couple hundred times.
But you are right, nothing released in the past 3-4 years has been on par with previous MMO releases..
They've raised the bar.
I've been around longer then most, played all the "old school" games to my hearts content when they were in their infancy. Do I miss parts of them? Different aspects? Of course. Do I hate different parts of them and are glad that those issues are no longer issues in modern MMOs? Of course.
The "glory days" of MMOs weren't really all that glorious. We are CURRENTLY in the glory days. We have more MMO players, more games to choose from, more games on the horizon, and over all better games.
You're stuck in the past man.
You have two options:
a) continue to sound like a grandfather lamenting in the "good old days" without realizing they're never coming back
b) be optimistic about the future, adapt to what is available, hope for the future
Pretty much, don't waste time dreaming about the past, look forward to the future, use your vote (dollars) and your voice (forums/beta boards etc.) to help shape the future of the industry.
All you are doing is complaining. No one likes that. (you and every other poster like the OP who has written this exact same post)
I do not think it is a case of the games being mediocre, per se, it is a case of the gamers becoming jaded.
A decade ago MMORPGs in their current incarnation were starting to come out and a lot of us were being introduced to a fairly new form of gaming. Thus, we were fascinated by it.
Now, the genre has aged and so have we. The newness has worn off and we want the feeling of a decade ago back. Well, it is not going to happen, I am afraid.
Look at other genres of video games, like the traditional turn-based RPG. What have some big ones been? Dragon Quest/Warrior 1, Final Fantasy VI, Final Fantasy VII, and that is about it. They have barely evolved either, yet we do not complain nearly as much. In a way, we expect a certain formula, which, in a way, is what a genre is - a basic formula.
I think since MMORPGs are supposed to be more engrossing as they are a persistent world, our standards are higher. We look at them as having infinite shelf life, while we know games from other genres are only meant to entertain us for 5-100 hours, then be fondly remembered. Now we complain when an MMORPG only is fun for a year - a year! I think it is still an incredible feat.
How much more can the genre really do that is innovative? There comes a point where you are not going to see revolution, merely evolution, and evolution is not as thrilling. I think that while we should hold developers accountable, we also need to hold ourselves accountable. If we go into every new MMORPG expecting something totally new and amazing that will rock our world, we will be disappointed. That is a feeling you only get once, whether it be from beginning with EverQuest in 1999 or World of Warcraft in 2004, and subsequent games will not recapture that.
Anyway, here's to hoping 2008 will have some good titles.
Wait I've seen this post before... a couple hundred times.
But you are right, nothing released in the past 3-4 years has been on par with previous MMO releases..
They've raised the bar.
I've been around longer then most, played all the "old school" games to my hearts content when they were in their infancy. Do I miss parts of them? Different aspects? Of course. Do I hate different parts of them and are glad that those issues are no longer issues in modern MMOs? Of course.
The "glory days" of MMOs weren't really all that glorious. We are CURRENTLY in the glory days. We have more MMO players, more games to choose from, more games on the horizon, and over all better games.
You're stuck in the past man.
You have two options:
a) continue to sound like a grandfather lamenting in the "good old days" without realizing they're never coming back
b) be optimistic about the future, adapt to what is available, hope for the future
Pretty much, don't waste time dreaming about the past, look forward to the future, use your vote (dollars) and your voice (forums/beta boards etc.) to help shape the future of the industry.
All you are doing is complaining. No one likes that. (you and every other poster like the OP who has written this exact same post)
Just how have they "raised the bar"? Graphics? I am not lamenting about the good old days, as much as I am disappointed in the games that are being released.
I have been looking forward to the future, but there is nothing on the horizon. If you want to be content with the mediocre, then that's your perrogative. I myself am not.
Wait I've seen this post before... a couple hundred times.
But you are right, nothing released in the past 3-4 years has been on par with previous MMO releases..
They've raised the bar.
I've been around longer then most, played all the "old school" games to my hearts content when they were in their infancy. Do I miss parts of them? Different aspects? Of course. Do I hate different parts of them and are glad that those issues are no longer issues in modern MMOs? Of course.
The "glory days" of MMOs weren't really all that glorious. We are CURRENTLY in the glory days. We have more MMO players, more games to choose from, more games on the horizon, and over all better games.
You're stuck in the past man.
You have two options:
a) continue to sound like a grandfather lamenting in the "good old days" without realizing they're never coming back
b) be optimistic about the future, adapt to what is available, hope for the future
Pretty much, don't waste time dreaming about the past, look forward to the future, use your vote (dollars) and your voice (forums/beta boards etc.) to help shape the future of the industry.
All you are doing is complaining. No one likes that. (you and every other poster like the OP who has written this exact same post)
Just how have they "raised the bar"? Graphics? I am not lamenting about the good old days, as much as I am disappointed in the games that are being released.
I have been looking forward to the future, but there is nothing on the horizon. If you want to be content with the mediocre, then that's your perrogative. I myself am not.
Well you are talking about you opinions and that doesn't make it the criteria by which anyone else had to live their lives. Your opinions may be right for you, but that doesn't make them valid for anyone else. You want to feel disappointed great for you. You have a right to feel miserable about situations which don't live up to YOUR standards.
I think it is not as rare as you think, but it is probably rare in America because that is how our society works nowadays.
Yeah, Portals wasnt innovative enough for you? Or Nebula whatever it was called, that Portals is originally based on.
Time and Commitment usually brings along quite some creativity. All companies that have a good infrastructure and the time to invest money in innovation seems to come long ways. Companies such as LEGO has used this tactic many times.
Brainstorming ftw
Futilez - Mature MMORPG Community
Correcting people since birth.
Mediocrity in MMOs is not chiefly an American trait. Just look at the hundreds of Korean grindfests, or the disaster that was Dark and Light (developed by a French company)
Server-wide (and in some cases, cross-server) auction houses and global chat.
Instancing for more directed, lag-free, "kill-stealing" free, story-driven content.
Side-kick/mentoring systems, allowing friends of differing progress to still play together.
Vastly improved group/team search/construction interfaces.
Greater accessibility for casual play.
Optional, consensual PvP.
I could go on and on, though I suspect some of what I'd call genuine innovation, others might consider "dumbing down." It's all in the eye of the beholder.
Instancing for more directed, lag-free, "kill-stealing" free, story-driven content.
Side-kick/mentoring systems, allowing friends of differing progress to still play together.
Vastly improved group/team search/construction interfaces.
Greater accessibility for casual play.
Optional, consensual PvP.
I could go on and on, though I suspect some of what I'd call genuine innovation, others might consider "dumbing down." It's all in the eye of the beholder.
By no means would I call any of those innovation. It's just applying old techniques to new applications. Instanced content is just taking the "outdoor" events and put them in a lag free environment, as if you were playing over LAN with 4 or 5 of your friends, like in Diablo 2 or any other online RPG.
The other things you mentioned is what I would call improvements as you mention yourself.
If I were to say any game were innovative, they would need to have some sort of revamping of the combat system, gameplay, storyline or any other of the core elements of a game. Not the small bits, like instances, or interfaces.
Futilez - Mature MMORPG Community
Correcting people since birth.
Server-wide (and in some cases, cross-server) auction houses and global chat.
Instancing for more directed, lag-free, "kill-stealing" free, story-driven content.
Side-kick/mentoring systems, allowing friends of differing progress to still play together.
Vastly improved group/team search/construction interfaces.
Greater accessibility for casual play.
Optional, consensual PvP.
I could go on and on, though I suspect some of what I'd call genuine innovation, others might consider "dumbing down." It's all in the eye of the beholder.
LOL....auction houses is an innovation? Auction houses are crap. The economy in SWG had terminals on every corner where you could by and trade. Auction houses are a cheap way to handle a player based economy.
Most of the things you have listed are not new and have been around for years.
Well ok, I will give you that. We are slightly better than Korea! A country that has been in turmoil and civil unrest for the past 100 years.
Wait I've seen this post before... a couple hundred times.
But you are right, nothing released in the past 3-4 years has been on par with previous MMO releases..
They've raised the bar.
I've been around longer then most, played all the "old school" games to my hearts content when they were in their infancy. Do I miss parts of them? Different aspects? Of course. Do I hate different parts of them and are glad that those issues are no longer issues in modern MMOs? Of course.
The "glory days" of MMOs weren't really all that glorious. We are CURRENTLY in the glory days. We have more MMO players, more games to choose from, more games on the horizon, and over all better games.
You're stuck in the past man.
You have two options:
a) continue to sound like a grandfather lamenting in the "good old days" without realizing they're never coming back
b) be optimistic about the future, adapt to what is available, hope for the future
Pretty much, don't waste time dreaming about the past, look forward to the future, use your vote (dollars) and your voice (forums/beta boards etc.) to help shape the future of the industry.
All you are doing is complaining. No one likes that. (you and every other poster like the OP who has written this exact same post)
Just how have they "raised the bar"? Graphics? I am not lamenting about the good old days, as much as I am disappointed in the games that are being released.
I have been looking forward to the future, but there is nothing on the horizon. If you want to be content with the mediocre, then that's your perrogative. I myself am not.
Well you are talking about you opinions and that doesn't make it the criteria by which anyone else had to live their lives. Your opinions may be right for you, but that doesn't make them valid for anyone else. You want to feel disappointed great for you. You have a right to feel miserable about situations which don't live up to YOUR standards.
And you have your right to be content with the Mediocre. I think my opinion is valid for a large portion of MMO gamers. The point is I DON'T want to feel disppointed, but how can you not when the average MMO is released 6 months earlier than they should. My standards are simple:
1) Give me a game that is immersive and doesn't hold my hand through ever friggin thing.
2) Give me a game that is finished.
3) Give me a game that is new, not just last night's meatloaf with some extra ketchup on top.
I feel that I we have not seen any releases for a few years now that were brand idea. Maybe I missed something?
If you played the old Red Alert C&C series you realised that was one and since those early games nothing changed but the units one can build, but the gameplay stayed very much the same.
Same with single player or multiplayer fps games, you shoot and you still keep shooting, maybe the quality of the game changes gfx wise or some slight changes in the teamplay or classes, but at the end of the day you do the same thing: shoot.
Later MMOs are the same, environment changes maybe but healers/tanks/dps are the same kind of classes, quests are mainly killx, get x, lvl and craft if you are lucky to have a game with descent crafting.
Yes, I was one of those noobs who joined mmos when wow arrived, not proud of it because I realise now what I missed out on by playing RTS and FPS games before WoW, the birth of MMOs, the real beggining of a genre.
However since I finished playing WoW I had the opportunity to try out other MMos and yes, they are are all very simmilar in the actual gameplay and some truly suck( tabula rasa, archlord, gods and heroes)
I think we are all waiting for something completely new here, something noone has ever seen, but I can't seen any such game coming out.
Creating one and failing with it is something investors do not want to see, they go for the tried and tested and try to "improve" upon it somehow so they can call it "new generation".
I personally have not invested any money in an MMO for over a year. I have been waiting for the next great thing. Everything though that I read on the new ones, sound like a lesser remake of an older but better game.
Anytime big business get's their hands on anything, they squash all creativity and innovation out if if.
In that case, just play games that don't come from America. Problem solved.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
Wait I've seen this post before... a couple hundred times.
But you are right, nothing released in the past 3-4 years has been on par with previous MMO releases..
They've raised the bar.
I've been around longer then most, played all the "old school" games to my hearts content when they were in their infancy. Do I miss parts of them? Different aspects? Of course. Do I hate different parts of them and are glad that those issues are no longer issues in modern MMOs? Of course.
The "glory days" of MMOs weren't really all that glorious. We are CURRENTLY in the glory days. We have more MMO players, more games to choose from, more games on the horizon, and over all better games.
You're stuck in the past man.
You have two options:
a) continue to sound like a grandfather lamenting in the "good old days" without realizing they're never coming back
b) be optimistic about the future, adapt to what is available, hope for the future
Pretty much, don't waste time dreaming about the past, look forward to the future, use your vote (dollars) and your voice (forums/beta boards etc.) to help shape the future of the industry.
All you are doing is complaining. No one likes that. (you and every other poster like the OP who has written this exact same post)
Just how have they "raised the bar"? Graphics? I am not lamenting about the good old days, as much as I am disappointed in the games that are being released.
I have been looking forward to the future, but there is nothing on the horizon. If you want to be content with the mediocre, then that's your perrogative. I myself am not.
Well you are talking about you opinions and that doesn't make it the criteria by which anyone else had to live their lives. Your opinions may be right for you, but that doesn't make them valid for anyone else. You want to feel disappointed great for you. You have a right to feel miserable about situations which don't live up to YOUR standards.
And you have your right to be content with the Mediocre. I think my opinion is valid for a large portion of MMO gamers. The point is I DON'T want to feel disppointed, but how can you not when the average MMO is released 6 months earlier than they should. My standards are simple:
1) Give me a game that is immersive and doesn't hold my hand through ever friggin thing.
2) Give me a game that is finished.
3) Give me a game that is new, not just last night's meatloaf with some extra ketchup on top.
You opinions are not FACTS they are opinions. Don't speak for anyone else but yourself. You are not the voice of the community you are the voice of yourself. You have to understand, what you like isn't "the right way" nor does it make people's different opinions "the wrong way".The MMORPG community as an industry has been growing and I don't see that stopping any time soon. It may not live up to your way of thinking, but that is what it is in any case.
Yeah I would have to agree there is a lot of mediocrity in mmo's.
Games released buggy and without polish. Lack of innovation. Same game over and over with different paint job. And the paint job, well it's usually the same brown earth tones over and over.
I think this is really reflected in the character creation of these games. Usually it seems you just pick from some preselected heads and then choose your hair. But sometimes they give you facial sliders where you can pick between boring clone of everyone else and god awful ugly. So everyone ends up looking the same anway and the sliders are useless. And whats with the plethora of lame hair styles. And how come girl avatars can't have more long hair options. And how about sliders for breasts, arms, shoulders, chest, legs, instead of the generic build tab with 3 options. We should be able to chose our avatars voice and we should have TONS of emotes. LOTRO is so lazy with regards to the emotes, it drives me crazy. What the heck
Games should be fun and exciting. There should be a chance for something awesome to drop off a regular mob now and again. It's like pulling the lever on a slot machine. If you think you have a chance at hitting the big one it adds more excitement. But some games, LOTRO for instance, its bla bla bla drops. Crap for the vendor or maybe to sell on the auction house.
God this is the worst pms ever
Since then, auction houses have come a long way. Whether it's EVE Online, City of Heroes, or the new Pirates of the Burning Sea, the basic mechanics have evolved quite a bit. Developers have become much more savvy about player economies.
While it's fair that you might not view this as true "innovation," I assure you that many active players appreciate the improvements none the less.
Boy you're ignorant.
America has faced more "civil unrest" in the scant 200+ years of its existence, than Korea has for generations. Hell, they're one of our few allies still supporting our coalition in Iraq. You should be a little bit more charitable before ripping on an entire culture over a flipping video game.
There was an interview with Brian Fargo a few months back (one of the founders of Interplay).
Biggest reason is the cost of production (according to him).
It cost so much to create these products, that a failed product can sink a company.
How many companies that try to create a MMO go bankrupt.. How many MMO's from a small under funded company actually make it.
Investors or Corporations look for "sure things".
Which is why you see games based on popular IP's etc etc
There is no innovation because... nobody wants to fund 10's of millions of dollars and see it do the circular slide down the drain. Its called taking "chances" and not many places that can fund you.. are willing to take a chance.
As to the OP..
how exactly is any of this related to America?
Where is this country that has such awesome movies, music and MMO's ? Because I can't find it...
Wait I've seen this post before... a couple hundred times.
But you are right, nothing released in the past 3-4 years has been on par with previous MMO releases..
They've raised the bar.
I've been around longer then most, played all the "old school" games to my hearts content when they were in their infancy. Do I miss parts of them? Different aspects? Of course. Do I hate different parts of them and are glad that those issues are no longer issues in modern MMOs? Of course.
The "glory days" of MMOs weren't really all that glorious. We are CURRENTLY in the glory days. We have more MMO players, more games to choose from, more games on the horizon, and over all better games.
You're stuck in the past man.
You have two options:
a) continue to sound like a grandfather lamenting in the "good old days" without realizing they're never coming back
b) be optimistic about the future, adapt to what is available, hope for the future
Pretty much, don't waste time dreaming about the past, look forward to the future, use your vote (dollars) and your voice (forums/beta boards etc.) to help shape the future of the industry.
All you are doing is complaining. No one likes that. (you and every other poster like the OP who has written this exact same post)
Just how have they "raised the bar"? Graphics? I am not lamenting about the good old days, as much as I am disappointed in the games that are being released.
I have been looking forward to the future, but there is nothing on the horizon. If you want to be content with the mediocre, then that's your perrogative. I myself am not.
Well you are talking about you opinions and that doesn't make it the criteria by which anyone else had to live their lives. Your opinions may be right for you, but that doesn't make them valid for anyone else. You want to feel disappointed great for you. You have a right to feel miserable about situations which don't live up to YOUR standards.
And you have your right to be content with the Mediocre. I think my opinion is valid for a large portion of MMO gamers. The point is I DON'T want to feel disppointed, but how can you not when the average MMO is released 6 months earlier than they should. My standards are simple:
1) Give me a game that is immersive and doesn't hold my hand through ever friggin thing.
2) Give me a game that is finished.
3) Give me a game that is new, not just last night's meatloaf with some extra ketchup on top.
You opinions are not FACTS they are opinions. Don't speak for anyone else but yourself. You are not the voice of the community you are the voice of yourself. You have to understand, what you like isn't "the right way" nor does it make people's different opinions "the wrong way".The MMORPG community as an industry has been growing and I don't see that stopping any time soon. It may not live up to your way of thinking, but that is what it is in any case.
whoa whoa whoa people. All I was trying to say, is that:
1. Yes- everyone is entitled to their opinion, I've heard people like the OP try and convince others that their opinion is somehow "better" or "more right" waaaaayyy too many times. It's all about tone, in a text only environment, the words you use dictate tone. "dumbed down" "mediocre" "garbage" words like these make you sound very ignorant and high-and-mighty, like your opinion is better then others.
2. NO - "old school" sandbox games like old UO and pre-NGE SWG will never be made again. It sucks, I wouldn't mind a GOOD sandbox game with a good community (instead of a bunch of a$$hat gankers) but it's not going to happen, so you might as well get over it now, like I have, instead of living a life of MMO disappointment.
How much economics have you studied? If you've taken even an introductory level macroeconomics course you'd realize, the MMO industry is indeed following a specifically american approach. There's an excellent essay by a former harvard economist named John Kenneth Galbraith called "The Affluent Society". The premise is, our economy is operating under 19th century european theories of production over everything. This is fine when you have an impoverished population who are more concerned the basic necessities of life, such as food, clothing, and shelter. Since those commodities are in demand and essential for life, little was invested in innovative approaches. The devices that ushered in the industrial revolution (the cotton gin and the steam engine for 2 specific instances) were not developed by or with the support of the industries that benefited most from them, they we're developed by normal workers with flashes of brilliance who wanted to ease their workload. In a society that's struggling to clothe, feed, adn house it's population, this is fine.. but we're beyond that stage and our economic strategies have failed to develop beyond that. Production remains king while innovation falls by the way side. The WoW model has shown success and that's why you will see WoW clone after WoW clone. Innovation is not rewarded the way production is, so developers take the path of least resistance and copy successful business models, with merely derivative products. Take the american auto industry. Our cars continue to get awful gas mileage, the body model may change, but there hasn't been anything truly innovative in years. Each year, our auto industry falls further and further behind foriegn auto makes for this very reason. They are locked into a production mindset and refuse to embrace innovation. It's industry that refuses to innovate once they find a successful business model, not consumers.
Spoken like someone whose read a few articles, maybe even take a class or two from some liberal professor.
You are right, to some extent, but that's only a small piece of the pie. The rabbit whole goes much, much deeper.
The MMO industry is one that is unlike every other sector of the economy except for the movie business.
Massive front end investment means that the investors need some guarantee that they'll get their money back and make a profit. Same is true in the movie and MMO business.
How does Hollywood handle this problem? Big name directors, big name actors, big name productions. The MMO industry is the same way. Big name companies, big name developers, big name IPs.
But, in the movie biz, occasionally we get a product that has limited production costs, but ends up a huge hit due to innovation / creativity. Or a huge, expensive production that lives up to the hype. Same in MMOs.
Do these innovative / creative writers/directors/actors sit down and say "I'm going to do something innovative/creative today!" Sometimes, if they are cocky a-holes. But most of the time, it's something that "just happens." Like Boondock Saints. Cult phenomenon.
WoW is an example of something that "just happen" that got bigger and more successful then anything else around. But Blizzard was smart, they got some great devs, a great IP, and the backing of a great company to tilt the odds in their favor that they'd strike it rich.
You can't force the next big thing. You can't beg for it. You can't even ask for it. It's futile.
You just have to wait for it.
It is simple economics really. If a gaming company does a bit of research and comes to the conclusion that many MMO gamers (maybe even gamers in general) would want to play an immersive sandbox type MMO, then they could simply build it and reap the economic rewards if it is indeed good.