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The documentary film every American should see.

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  • njdevi66njdevi66 Member UncommonPosts: 215

    Originally posted by Somnulus


    I simply do not understand the mindset that finds it so difficult to believe that a wealthy minority has both the desire and the ability to impose their will on the majority.
    An earlier poster mentioned the serfdom of the Middle Ages. Are we not serfs now? Who posting here can claim to unequivocally own their property?
    The only ones who can claim that with any surety are those who are so wealthy that the security of their property and place in society are assured by their wealth.
    The concept of property taxes is ridiculous. Who in your city, county or state government comes to your home every day to maintain your property? What exactly are you paying for? What improvements or additions do they add that increases the inherent value of your property?
    When I purchased my home, it was not a part of the nearby city it is closest to. I have a septic tank which I pay to have serviced. I paid $30 a month to have my trash picked up twice a week by a local service.
    About two years after purchasing my home, the city annexed my neighborhood in an expansion bid. The annexation was fought in the state supreme court, but the local residents lost because the city had already invested over six million dollars in the expansion of their sewage lines to our neighborhood before they even began the annexation. If the state had struck down the annexation, it would have nearly bankrupted the city.
    Did the annexation go through because it was right? Or did it go through because an enormous amount of money and potential revenue was at stake?
    Now I pay around $800 extra dollars a year to the city; what am I getting for my $800?
    Nothing. It doesn't pay to have my home connected to the local sewage line, for which I apparently can expect to pay an additional $4,000.00 for, outside of my taxes. My trash is picked up once a week, instead of twice.
    No one comes to my home to mow my lawn; no one is re-paving my driveway. The city police department has not increased by one single officer to deal with the increase in area and population. I had a county fire department less than a block from my home and thus, had no need for city fire services.
    As far as I can see, I have not received a single service for my taxes that I did not already have. I am now paying nearly three times as much as I was before just to have my trash taken out.
    I have three vehicles that I own outright, with no lien holder. Yet, I pay property taxes on those three vehicles. Why? What do I get for that money? What does that tax allow me to do or not do that I do not already do myself?
    Does someone come to my home to service my vehicles... to support that property? Of course not. Apparently, not only did I pay for the vehicles themselves (with interest) but I also have to pay for all of their services (which I pay taxes on), their fuel (which I pay taxes on), their licenses and registrations and a property tax that serves absolutely no purpose other than to make other people richer and myself poorer.
    The sales taxes and actual service taxes I already pay are more than sufficient to provide for the services, employees and institutions they are there to support.
    Rather, they would be if they were not misappropriated and abused.
    All of that is a microcosm of our Federal taxation system.
    I have no problem paying taxes to support my local, state and federal governments. I personally believe it's part of my responsibility to our society as a whole.
    My problem is how much I am taxed and what exactly is done with those taxes. Our federal government and particularly, the IRS, demands complete accountability from us. I want that same accountability from them. I want the ability to look at what my taxes are being used for down to the last dollar, just as they examine my revenue every single year.
    If I fail to pay or disclose properly, they will enforce adjustments. I want that same ability in regards to them.
    Not only can they not provide that accountability, but they will flatly refuse to do so.
    Where are the advocates for your average American taxpayer? Who represents us?
    Supposedly it is our elected representatives. However, the fact is that the majority of them could honestly care less about your average American. They rationalize taxation voting in terms of pennies per American; they do not consider the hundreds you are already paying.
    So; the situation is that your average American reports his/her annual income because they are demanded to. They pay from their income all year long to the federal government and receive no accounting of the use of their funds and thus, have no way of knowing exactly how their individual taxes contributed to their welfare at all.
    How, exactly, is that different from a feudal lord demanding tribute from his serfs?

    I know i could not have said it any better myself... good post somnulus. If people cant read and understand what you just posted, then their is no hope for them until they start waking up to see what our so-called great uncle sam is doing to us. Wake up people!

    image

  • Bane82Bane82 Member UncommonPosts: 1,242

    I don't think even I could've said it better Somnulus, good job.

  • maskedweaselmaskedweasel Member EpicPosts: 11,893

    Originally posted by Somnulus


    I simply do not understand the mindset that finds it so difficult to believe that a wealthy minority has both the desire and the ability to impose their will on the majority.
    An earlier poster mentioned the serfdom of the Middle Ages. Are we not serfs now? Who posting here can claim to unequivocally own their property?
    The only ones who can claim that with any surety are those who are so wealthy that the security of their property and place in society are assured by their wealth.
    The concept of property taxes is ridiculous. Who in your city, county or state government comes to your home every day to maintain your property? What exactly are you paying for? What improvements or additions do they add that increases the inherent value of your property?
    When I purchased my home, it was not a part of the nearby city it is closest to. I have a septic tank which I pay to have serviced. I paid $30 a month to have my trash picked up twice a week by a local service.
    About two years after purchasing my home, the city annexed my neighborhood in an expansion bid. The annexation was fought in the state supreme court, but the local residents lost because the city had already invested over six million dollars in the expansion of their sewage lines to our neighborhood before they even began the annexation. If the state had struck down the annexation, it would have nearly bankrupted the city.
    Did the annexation go through because it was right? Or did it go through because an enormous amount of money and potential revenue was at stake?
    Now I pay around $800 extra dollars a year to the city; what am I getting for my $800?
    Nothing. It doesn't pay to have my home connected to the local sewage line, for which I apparently can expect to pay an additional $4,000.00 for, outside of my taxes. My trash is picked up once a week, instead of twice.
    No one comes to my home to mow my lawn; no one is re-paving my driveway. The city police department has not increased by one single officer to deal with the increase in area and population. I had a county fire department less than a block from my home and thus, had no need for city fire services.
    As far as I can see, I have not received a single service for my taxes that I did not already have. I am now paying nearly three times as much as I was before just to have my trash taken out.
    I have three vehicles that I own outright, with no lien holder. Yet, I pay property taxes on those three vehicles. Why? What do I get for that money? What does that tax allow me to do or not do that I do not already do myself?
    Does someone come to my home to service my vehicles... to support that property? Of course not. Apparently, not only did I pay for the vehicles themselves (with interest) but I also have to pay for all of their services (which I pay taxes on), their fuel (which I pay taxes on), their licenses and registrations and a property tax that serves absolutely no purpose other than to make other people richer and myself poorer.
    The sales taxes and actual service taxes I already pay are more than sufficient to provide for the services, employees and institutions they are there to support.
    Rather, they would be if they were not misappropriated and abused.
    All of that is a microcosm of our Federal taxation system.
    I have no problem paying taxes to support my local, state and federal governments. I personally believe it's part of my responsibility to our society as a whole.
    My problem is how much I am taxed and what exactly is done with those taxes. Our federal government and particularly, the IRS, demands complete accountability from us. I want that same accountability from them. I want the ability to look at what my taxes are being used for down to the last dollar, just as they examine my revenue every single year.
    If I fail to pay or disclose properly, they will enforce adjustments. I want that same ability in regards to them.
    Not only can they not provide that accountability, but they will flatly refuse to do so.
    Where are the advocates for your average American taxpayer? Who represents us?
    Supposedly it is our elected representatives. However, the fact is that the majority of them could honestly care less about your average American. They rationalize taxation voting in terms of pennies per American; they do not consider the hundreds you are already paying.
    So; the situation is that your average American reports his/her annual income because they are demanded to. They pay from their income all year long to the federal government and receive no accounting of the use of their funds and thus, have no way of knowing exactly how their individual taxes contributed to their welfare at all.
    How, exactly, is that different from a feudal lord demanding tribute from his serfs?
    A few things. First I am not saying bad things don't happen to good people.  Alot of people get a raw deal in life, this is true nomatter if it's given by the government or given by the punk kid who gets pissed off and decides to shoot everyone in a mall one day.  The world has problems. Theres a BIG DIFFERENCE BETWEEN PROPERTY TAXES AND HAVING CHIPS IMPLANTED UNDER YOUR SKIN.  I would like a reference to a country that has already put in a "chip placement" strategy.  I'm not saying it can't be done.  I think everyone blew what I said out of proportion.  If I recall correctly in the first place I said if the government  forced me to do anything I did not agree with. Also, in the event the whole world has gone "chip" crazy, then there are some things in life that cannot be avoided. 

    Taxes are one of those things. Death is another.

    Regardless, I understand that you pay taxes on a home that you pretty much have to take care of yourself.  Personally, I would make a request to speak with your local government about that.  It's apparent that we live in very different Americas. 

    I live in a very populated city thats growing quite a bit.  The city hall is in the middle of a large shopping area, on both sides of it are apartments and high rise townhomes.  Under those are shops, across the street is a mall. The doors are always open, and the volunteer team handles city responses adequately.

    When I was 19 I joined the volunteer firefighters. In that time I saw my fair share of alot of things the city offers, good and bad. Theres good and bad in everything.  I'm not saying that what you all say is wrong, and that all of your complaints are unfounded.  I'm just saying that again, the population that you speak of is miniscule.  Yes this could happen to me.  Let me ask, what if it happened to you? All of your worrying, all of your complaining, and you could still end up at the bottom like the rest of us.

    In response to the post above, it sounds like you got a raw deal. Understand that there is probably a great deal of the city/zip code/county that you live in that does not have the exact problem you have. Yes they pay property taxes.  I know when I pay property taxes it goes towards the upkeep of the city, like broken curbs, potholes, sewage lines and so forth.  But on the other hand, whereas you think I'm not thinking about others, and not fighting for others freedoms, you have to understand that even if the money you're spending doesn't directly relate to your home, it could very well be used to help your neighbors or other parts of the city that need more work then yours does at the moment.

    If theres one thing I've learned it's that you shouldn't always trust everything you hear.  Again, I'm not against fighting for freedom, or rights.  In fact if you go through my recent post history you can see that I'm not one to sit by and let the world pass me by.  I also don't just watch a few videos regarding the same topics and automatically decide this is how life will be.  Noone can predict the future.  Luckily we have "experts" and "theorists" on these topics to help us along.  To every theorist you will find a counter theorist.  I could just as easily make a convincing documentary on the existence of unicorns and produce it to the masses. 

    As with everything else on this webpage you can't just say "Look at this, evidence, this is true, you're so stupid for not thinking so" and then show a biased story.  That doesn't work. You have to have people make up their minds for themselves. That good sirs, is freedom in its truest form, No anarchy needed.

    As for the gentleman who wants to push the buck on what country I would move to. Lets try Canada, Albania or Switzerland for starters. I have family in canada, friends in albania, and switzerland was rated one of the best countries to live in.

    But regardless, that doesn't matter.  I can convince you about as much as you can convince me, and with that we will each lead seperate lives, me standing for what I feel is right, and you doing likewise. In the end it's the majority vote that wins, not a web report or documentary.



  • windstrike1windstrike1 Member Posts: 553

    Originally posted by maskedweasel


     


    I would like a reference to a country that has already put in a "chip placement" strategy. 

    Mexico to Microchip Central American Migrants

     

     

  • SomnulusSomnulus Member Posts: 354


    Originally posted by maskedweasel
    A few things. First I am not saying bad things don't happen to good people. Alot of people get a raw deal in life, this is true nomatter if it's given by the government or given by the punk kid who gets pissed off and decides to shoot everyone in a mall one day. The world has problems.

    This is an absolute truth, maskedweasel.


    Theres a BIG DIFFERENCE BETWEEN PROPERTY TAXES AND HAVING CHIPS IMPLANTED UNDER YOUR SKIN. I would like a reference to a country that has already put in a "chip placement" strategy. I'm not saying it can't be done. I think everyone blew what I said out of proportion. If I recall correctly in the first place I said if the government forced me to do anything I did not agree with. Also, in the event the whole world has gone "chip" crazy, then there are some things in life that cannot be avoided.

    There is a big difference, but there is also a direct correlation. I think the relation between the two is if we, as citizens, are willing to accept one form of relative oppression, what action will we take with another form that is more severe?

    If we fail to protest even moderate injustices, what will we do when faced with outright tyranny?


    Taxes are one of those things. Death is another.
    Regardless, I understand that you pay taxes on a home that you pretty much have to take care of yourself. Personally, I would make a request to speak with your local government about that. It's apparent that we live in very different Americas.

    That is quite possible, but I would be willing to hazard a guess that of the taxes you pay, you would be no more successful in getting an accounting of their use than I have been. That's important to me.


    When I was 19 I joined the volunteer firefighters. In that time I saw my fair share of alot of things the city offers, good and bad. Theres good and bad in everything. I'm not saying that what you all say is wrong, and that all of your complaints are unfounded. I'm just saying that again, the population that you speak of is miniscule. Yes this could happen to me. Let me ask, what if it happened to you? All of your worrying, all of your complaining, and you could still end up at the bottom like the rest of us.

    I think the population I am referring to is a majority of our country. I also think that if I and others do not worry and complain about these things, we definitely will end up at the bottom.


    In response to the post above, it sounds like you got a raw deal. Understand that there is probably a great deal of the city/zip code/county that you live in that does not have the exact problem you have. Yes they pay property taxes. I know when I pay property taxes it goes towards the upkeep of the city, like broken curbs, potholes, sewage lines and so forth. But on the other hand, whereas you think I'm not thinking about others, and not fighting for others freedoms, you have to understand that even if the money you're spending doesn't directly relate to your home, it could very well be used to help your neighbors or other parts of the city that need more work then yours does at the moment.

    Well, when they annexed my "neighborhood" that affected 46,968 people. One of the biggest direct impacts was that the city assessed a year and a half of taxes up front from the point the annexation was initially approved to the time until the state supreme court finally voted it legal. That meant the city was allowed to begin by taxing us for a year and a half of back taxes up front, in addition to our regular city taxes.

    This happens much more often than you think.

    I'm pretty much like you. I assume that my taxes go to pay for services across the city. Although I wasn't actually a willing participant in becoming part of the city and often some of the things I see being done seem very frivolous.

    For me, it's less about fighting for freedoms than it is about accountability. It is imperative that the citizens of our country flex their muscles occasionally to remind our government both that we are here and that they work for us; not the other way around.



    If theres one thing I've learned it's that you shouldn't always trust everything you hear. Again, I'm not against fighting for freedom, or rights. In fact if you go through my recent post history you can see that I'm not one to sit by and let the world pass me by. I also don't just watch a few videos regarding the same topics and automatically decide this is how life will be. Noone can predict the future. Luckily we have "experts" and "theorists" on these topics to help us along. To every theorist you will find a counter theorist. I could just as easily make a convincing documentary on the existence of unicorns and produce it to the masses.

    I don't trust anything I hear. I test it, poke it, prod it and come to my own conclusions. I do my best not to make assumptions.



    As with everything else on this webpage you can't just say "Look at this, evidence, this is true, you're so stupid for not thinking so" and then show a biased story. That doesn't work. You have to have people make up their minds for themselves. That good sirs, is freedom in its truest form, No anarchy needed.

    You are absolutely correct; everyone should make up their own minds for themselves. To do that, however, it is necessary that they are presented with every viewpoint, not simply those that are the most comfortable, plausible or least reactionary.

    Anarchy isn't necessary, but action is. Freedom is a lot of responsibility and it doesn't create itself. It has to be created and re-created over and over again. It has to be watched over, defended, cared for and protected like a rare and fragile flower. The moment we stop watching and caring for it is when we lose it.

    You have to ask yourself this question, though; imagine for just a moment that this RFI chip issue is a reality. When it comes time for your turn at the injection, what would your response be?

    I can't imagine anyone who honestly cherishes their freedom accepting it.

    So if a little hysteria and paranoia now lets our government know overall how we feel about the issue (even if it is non-existent) and averts a more direct confrontation, I see that as a positive thing.

    Abbatoir / Abbatoir Cinq
    Adnihilo
    Beorn Judge's Edge
    Somnulus
    Perfect Black
    ----------------------
    Asheron's Call / Asheron's Call 2
    Everquest / Everquest 2
    Anarchy Online
    Shadowbane
    Dark Age of Camelot
    Star Wars Galaxies
    Matrix Online
    World of Warcraft
    Guild Wars
    City of Heroes

  • maskedweaselmaskedweasel Member EpicPosts: 11,893

    Originally posted by Somnulus


     

    Originally posted by maskedweasel

    A few things. First I am not saying bad things don't happen to good people. Alot of people get a raw deal in life, this is true nomatter if it's given by the government or given by the punk kid who gets pissed off and decides to shoot everyone in a mall one day. The world has problems.


     

    This is an absolute truth, maskedweasel.

     



    Theres a BIG DIFFERENCE BETWEEN PROPERTY TAXES AND HAVING CHIPS IMPLANTED UNDER YOUR SKIN. I would like a reference to a country that has already put in a "chip placement" strategy. I'm not saying it can't be done. I think everyone blew what I said out of proportion. If I recall correctly in the first place I said if the government forced me to do anything I did not agree with. Also, in the event the whole world has gone "chip" crazy, then there are some things in life that cannot be avoided.



     

    There is a big difference, but there is also a direct correlation. I think the relation between the two is if we, as citizens, are willing to accept one form of relative oppression, what action will we take with another form that is more severe?

    If we fail to protest even moderate injustices, what will we do when faced with outright tyranny?



    Taxes are one of those things. Death is another.

    Regardless, I understand that you pay taxes on a home that you pretty much have to take care of yourself. Personally, I would make a request to speak with your local government about that. It's apparent that we live in very different Americas.



     

    That is quite possible, but I would be willing to hazard a guess that of the taxes you pay, you would be no more successful in getting an accounting of their use than I have been. That's important to me.

     



    When I was 19 I joined the volunteer firefighters. In that time I saw my fair share of alot of things the city offers, good and bad. Theres good and bad in everything. I'm not saying that what you all say is wrong, and that all of your complaints are unfounded. I'm just saying that again, the population that you speak of is miniscule. Yes this could happen to me. Let me ask, what if it happened to you? All of your worrying, all of your complaining, and you could still end up at the bottom like the rest of us.

     

    I think the population I am referring to is a majority of our country. I also think that if I and others do not worry and complain about these things, we definitely will end up at the bottom.

     



    In response to the post above, it sounds like you got a raw deal. Understand that there is probably a great deal of the city/zip code/county that you live in that does not have the exact problem you have. Yes they pay property taxes. I know when I pay property taxes it goes towards the upkeep of the city, like broken curbs, potholes, sewage lines and so forth. But on the other hand, whereas you think I'm not thinking about others, and not fighting for others freedoms, you have to understand that even if the money you're spending doesn't directly relate to your home, it could very well be used to help your neighbors or other parts of the city that need more work then yours does at the moment.



     

    Well, when they annexed my "neighborhood" that affected 46,968 people. One of the biggest direct impacts was that the city assessed a year and a half of taxes up front from the point the annexation was initially approved to the time until the state supreme court finally voted it legal. That meant the city was allowed to begin by taxing us for a year and a half of back taxes up front, in addition to our regular city taxes.

    This happens much more often than you think.

    I'm pretty much like you. I assume that my taxes go to pay for services across the city. Although I wasn't actually a willing participant in becoming part of the city and often some of the things I see being done seem very frivolous.

    For me, it's less about fighting for freedoms than it is about accountability. It is imperative that the citizens of our country flex their muscles occasionally to remind our government both that we are here and that they work for us; not the other way around.

     





    If theres one thing I've learned it's that you shouldn't always trust everything you hear. Again, I'm not against fighting for freedom, or rights. In fact if you go through my recent post history you can see that I'm not one to sit by and let the world pass me by. I also don't just watch a few videos regarding the same topics and automatically decide this is how life will be. Noone can predict the future. Luckily we have "experts" and "theorists" on these topics to help us along. To every theorist you will find a counter theorist. I could just as easily make a convincing documentary on the existence of unicorns and produce it to the masses.

     

    I don't trust anything I hear. I test it, poke it, prod it and come to my own conclusions. I do my best not to make assumptions.

     





    As with everything else on this webpage you can't just say "Look at this, evidence, this is true, you're so stupid for not thinking so" and then show a biased story. That doesn't work. You have to have people make up their minds for themselves. That good sirs, is freedom in its truest form, No anarchy needed.



     

    You are absolutely correct; everyone should make up their own minds for themselves. To do that, however, it is necessary that they are presented with every viewpoint, not simply those that are the most comfortable, plausible or least reactionary.

    Anarchy isn't necessary, but action is. Freedom is a lot of responsibility and it doesn't create itself. It has to be created and re-created over and over again. It has to be watched over, defended, cared for and protected like a rare and fragile flower. The moment we stop watching and caring for it is when we lose it.

    You have to ask yourself this question, though; imagine for just a moment that this RFI chip issue is a reality. When it comes time for your turn at the injection, what would your response be?

    I can't imagine anyone who honestly cherishes their freedom accepting it.

    So if a little hysteria and paranoia now lets our government know overall how we feel about the issue (even if it is non-existent) and averts a more direct confrontation, I see that as a positive thing.

     


    I will admit, out of every post I've read regarding this topic, and counter arguments against my posts, yours seem to be the best.  For that I respect you a great deal in comparison.  You've actually experienced something, and can label something as a problem. Accountability.  I do agree wholeheartedly that this is a problem with taxes.

    Granted I can speculate. I can look online and see what my taxes are going towards.  As I said our city is growing, I could say that the new additions to the freeways, or the road improvements are where my taxes are going. 

    I *could* say that, but in truth I don't know.  To speculate would be me saying exactly what all those others say about every "peril" the government creates.  I could look online and find out where my tax money is going to.  Is it worth believing?  This City is one of the most populated cities in the United States, to think all the money goes into civic improvements woule be naive.

    You are also right in turn, about you being about as successful as I when asking my local government about where my tax dollars are going.  I would suspect I would get an answer, albiet generally, and not necessarily accurate.

    I also agree that minor injustices should be brought to light.  I agree that your situation is one of those things that should be looked into further.  I would consider asking your congressman when they were planning to address some of the issues in your neighborhood. Perhaps get some of your nieghbors involved.

    As for the gentleman again that posted  the RFID chips being put on *ID cards for mexican immigrant workers* again this isn't injecting anything into anyone. Furthermore RFID chips will be placed in a number of different items in the future, including clothing, electronics, and so on.  Wanna hear something funny? I agree with the use of RFID chips being used in many different ways. They can store much more information and integrate with business systems accordingly.  Now, having them injected is another matter.  Again your source for having them injected is questionable. As for the use of RFID I've known about that for years now. 

    I wouldn't mind them implementing an RFID chip inside my drivers license, when you get pulled over and the cop goes back to his car to check your information, he takes forever.  I'd much rather a quick scan and then I'll be on my way.



  • Most Americans are numb from the shoulders up...really and truly a nation of village idiots!

     

    I swear, you can show them [the typical American knucklehead] irrefutable evidence of something and how it's linked to something else and they will: a) refuse to acknowledge the evidence and deny the connection out of hand, b) minimize the importance of the evidence and the link and accuse you of being a tinfoil-hat-wearing conspiracy nut, or c) placate you and change the subject.

     

    Bad-bad things will happen to the American sheeple in the months and years to come...and most deserve every bit of it! Some of us though - guys like windstrike and me and everyone else who spoke out and tried to warn of impending doom - don't deserve to suffer, but we will anyway. Now, I don't know about Windstrike and the others but I'm not going to be to at all happy with the fumble-fuck pseudo-patriots that I've encountered in my day-to-day life over the past 7 years!

     

    " to the fumble-fuck pseudo-patriots that got us into this mess!!" we will cry.

     

     

     

     

  • mithrandir72mithrandir72 Member Posts: 1,286

    Originally posted by poopypants


    Most Americans are numb from the shoulders up...really and truly a nation of village idiots!
     
    I swear, you can show them [the typical American knucklehead] irrefutable evidence of something and how it's linked to something else and they will: a) refuse to acknowledge the evidence and deny the connection out of hand, b) minimize the importance of the evidence and the link and accuse you of being a tinfoil-hat-wearing conspiracy nut, or c) placate you and change the subject.
     
    Bad-bad things will happen to the American sheeple in the months and years to come...and most deserve every bit of it! Some of us though - guys like windstrike and me and everyone else who spoke out and tried to warn of impending doom - don't deserve to suffer, but we will anyway. Now, I don't know about Windstrike and the others but I'm not going to be to at all happy with the fumble-fuck pseudo-patriots that I've encountered in my day-to-day life over the past 7 years!
     
    " to the fumble-fuck pseudo-patriots that got us into this mess!!" we will cry.
     
     
     
     
    You know, the problem I have with people like you, isn't what you believe. Its the complete lack of you doing anything about it whatsoever.

    "Oh look, I posted a link on an MMORPG Off topic forum! I'm doing my part!"

    You're not doing shit. If you belive this is happening, get off your fucking ass and do something about it! Go militant! Go organize actual campaigns, not post shit on the internet where a few people see it and don't care. You aren't converting a single person on the internet, I guarentee it. You need to either take some goddamn action or you need to stop spewing your shit. You're all bark, but no bite. Quit spouting a couple of random jabs about how enlightened you are, and how you tried to "Warn the population" and "The sheeple will be sorry".

    By the way, what the hell is a fumble-fuck pseudo patriot? I mean, come on, is that all you can possibly think of? If you're going to resort to name calling, at least do it expertly.

     

    We barely remember who or what came before this precious moment;
    We are choosing to be here right now -Tool, Parabola

  • SomnulusSomnulus Member Posts: 354


    Originally posted by maskedweasel
    I will admit, out of every post I've read regarding this topic, and counter arguments against my posts, yours seem to be the best. For that I respect you a great deal in comparison. You've actually experienced something, and can label something as a problem. Accountability. I do agree wholeheartedly that this is a problem with taxes.

    I appreciate that, maskedweasel. I normally try to be lucid and construct counter-arguments that are constructive and not reactive. I don't see the purpose in baiting people or using rhetoric.



    Granted I can speculate. I can look online and see what my taxes are going towards. As I said our city is growing, I could say that the new additions to the freeways, or the road improvements are where my taxes are going.
    I *could* say that, but in truth I don't know. To speculate would be me saying exactly what all those others say about every "peril" the government creates. I could look online and find out where my tax money is going to. Is it worth believing? This City is one of the most populated cities in the United States, to think all the money goes into civic improvements woule be naive.

    That is my only real issue. I have gone online every year since the annexation and downloaded the city's projected budget, and although I can see what they are proposing to spend money on, it is difficult to see where in that budget I fit in.

    I do not use their sewage system and I pay for my own water from the local utility (which is also taxed). So my money shouldn't really be going there. While I believe that my money should help support the general good, I honestly cannot see why anyone should be forced to pay for services they never receive.

    The road work and improvement they've done in the past year has been largely unnecessary and has actually caused more problems than it has solved. In one case, they built an entire bridge to expand a road but were forced to tear it down and build it again because it failed even the most basic load testing.

    No vote was taken, nor any input elicited as to whether we actually needed the bridge.

    So if my money went there, I personally feel that it went to waste.

    So while I don't believe that civil disobedience or anarchy are a suitable response to these particular situations, I definitely believe that it is our role to observe, safeguard and question these issues when they arise. As I said before, it reminds our local, state and federal governments that we are here and that they are answerable to us.



    You are also right in turn, about you being about as successful as I when asking my local government about where my tax dollars are going. I would suspect I would get an answer, albiet generally, and not necessarily accurate.
    I also agree that minor injustices should be brought to light. I agree that your situation is one of those things that should be looked into further. I would consider asking your congressman when they were planning to address some of the issues in your neighborhood. Perhaps get some of your nieghbors involved.

    That's the rub right there, MW; the challenge to the annexation brought before the state supreme court was initiated and supported by myself and the majority of my fellow 46,968 neighbors.

    So we exhausted our recourse for appeal. In the end, we lost because the state could not validate bankrupting the city over our right to representation.

    In retrospect now, I tend to agree with them. However, the city was never really in any danger of being bankrupted, as it is located next to the single largest U.S. Army post (in population) in the entire Army. The revenues generated by those soldiers would more than compensate the city.

    Indeed, if you look at the city budget and calculate the estimated tax paid by the population, there is a huge inequity. Somewhere in the neighborhood of $300 million dollars. So you have to ask yourself where that money is coming from; when you do, it is pretty clear that it is coming from the Army post and its soldiers.

    So again I am left with the question; what exactly are my taxes paying for?

    In the end, at least I took action. It may not have had the desired results, but regardless, I always recommend citizens take action rather than simply getting irate over a situation, as long as that action is in proportion to the issue.



    As for the gentleman again that posted the RFID chips being put on *ID cards for mexican immigrant workers* again this isn't injecting anything into anyone. Furthermore RFID chips will be placed in a number of different items in the future, including clothing, electronics, and so on. Wanna hear something funny? I agree with the use of RFID chips being used in many different ways. They can store much more information and integrate with business systems accordingly. Now, having them injected is another matter. Again your source for having them injected is questionable. As for the use of RFID I've known about that for years now.
    I wouldn't mind them implementing an RFID chip inside my drivers license, when you get pulled over and the cop goes back to his car to check your information, he takes forever. I'd much rather a quick scan and then I'll be on my way.

    I tend to feel the same way in many instances. I think, however, that it's important that we let our respective governments know where we want to draw the line. It is also important to know what we as citizens will do when the line is crossed.

    One of the most unique facets of the United States today is that for the first time in our history we actually have the ability to become closer to an actual democracy than we ever have in our nation's history.

    For the first time it is possible to elicit direct responses from huge portions of the population on issues that directly concern them rather than relying solely on our representational process.

    Note that I am not referring to a direct vote; rather, more like an opinion poll that would at least give our representatives a better idea of what we, the people, want.

    While it will certainly be susceptible to some form of tampering and manipulation by special interest groups and our politicians, it still provides a direct recourse that can be monitored by the people themselves.

    In the end, a little outrage and anger on both sides is to be expected. Although it occasionally seems crazy, I really am thankful for those people who are constantly watching our government. They are the ones who will actually catch out the inconsistencies that are important. We just have to use our own logic to cut the wheat from the chaff.

    Abbatoir / Abbatoir Cinq
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    ----------------------
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  • Originally posted by mithrandir72


     
    Originally posted by poopypants


    Most Americans are numb from the shoulders up...really and truly a nation of village idiots!
     
    I swear, you can show them [the typical American knucklehead] irrefutable evidence of something and how it's linked to something else and they will: a) refuse to acknowledge the evidence and deny the connection out of hand, b) minimize the importance of the evidence and the link and accuse you of being a tinfoil-hat-wearing conspiracy nut, or c) placate you and change the subject.
     
    Bad-bad things will happen to the American sheeple in the months and years to come...and most deserve every bit of it! Some of us though - guys like windstrike and me and everyone else who spoke out and tried to warn of impending doom - don't deserve to suffer, but we will anyway. Now, I don't know about Windstrike and the others but I'm not going to be to at all happy with the fumble-fuck pseudo-patriots that I've encountered in my day-to-day life over the past 7 years!
     
    " to the fumble-fuck pseudo-patriots that got us into this mess!!" we will cry.
     
     
     
     
    You know, the problem I have with people like you, isn't what you believe. Its the complete lack of you doing anything about it whatsoever.

     

    "Oh look, I posted a link on an MMORPG Off topic forum! I'm doing my part!"

    You're not doing shit. If you belive this is happening, get off your fucking ass and do something about it! Go militant! Go organize actual campaigns, not post shit on the internet where a few people see it and don't care. You aren't converting a single person on the internet, I guarentee it. You need to either take some goddamn action or you need to stop spewing your shit. You're all bark, but no bite. Quit spouting a couple of random jabs about how enlightened you are, and how you tried to "Warn the population" and "The sheeple will be sorry".

    By the way, what the hell is a fumble-fuck pseudo patriot? I mean, come on, is that all you can possibly think of? If you're going to resort to name calling, at least do it expertly.

     

    OOops...I meant to say Bumble-fuck pseudo patriots, sorry...my bad.

  • admriker4admriker4 Member Posts: 1,070

    In the end it doesnt matter if you feel the Federal Reserve is a good thing or not. The fact is the Federal Reserve is ILLEGAL.

    The Constitution is quite clear, only congress can print money and it must be backed by gold or silver. The Federal Reserve is a private corporation with worthless paper money backed by nothing.

    Every politician in office right now should be arrested for treason. They took an oath to uphold the Constitution and they violate that oath when they refuse to abolish the Fed.

    You people should be standing up and protesting the Federal Reserve. Eliminate the Fed and you wont need to pay federal income taxes anymore. The fact is 100% of all federal income tax colleted goes to pay the debt owed to the federal reserve. A debt that wouldnt exist if our govt printed its own money instead of allowing a private bank to print it and charge us interest on it.

    Look up the Grace Commission report. Your federal income tax revenue pays for no civic services. Might as well cut out the middle man and send your taxes directly to the rockefellers, rothchilds, and the other families that own the fed because thats where your money goes.

    The issue of inflation would also be solved with the elimination of the federal reserve. The 1913 dollar is today worth 4 cents. The fed just recently doubled the money supply to bail out its criminal finance friends in walll street who inflated real estate markets and we the public are paying for that.

    Wake up America

  • admriker4admriker4 Member Posts: 1,070

    oh and to the poster that mentions out govt being a democracy....

    WRONG

    We are a Consitutional Republic. Learn the difference.

    In fact the founding fathers HATED democracys.

    It just shows you how ignorant the american public is when nobody corrects the politicians who constantly mention democracy and spreading it the middle east.

    In a democracy 51% of the people enslave the 49% who dont share their views. In a constitutional republic everyone has a fair voice.

    I'll give you an example....

    New York City passed a law banning smoking in restaurants. It passed 53% to 47%. There are roughly 20 million people living in New York. And about 9.4 million of them have had their freedoms restricted by 10.6 million of their neighbors. This is completely illegal and against everything our founding fathers fought and died for.

    In a Consitutional Republic, no such laws would ever be considered. It infringes upon freedom and grants the goverment too much power.

  • TheFranchiseTheFranchise Member Posts: 241

    "I don't like him. His stance on global warming is really close to denying it.

    I can't respect a person questioning global warming and denying scientific proof like that."

    Plenty of scientists say global warming either doesn't exist or that it's a natural occurence and we can't do anything about it anyway.

    First and foremost, Ron Paul is about keeping government small and keeping it out of your life. The bigger government gets, the more freedom you lose. I hope you can look at his general intent and not focus on one single issue.

    I like this quote from George Washington: "Government is not reason; it is not eloquent; it is force. Like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master."

    If people saw the "free speech zone" pictures in this thread but don't know what they are about, I urge you to look them up. To think the First Amendment could be disregarded in such a way should have everyone frightened beyond belief at what their government is capable of. The current U.S. government walks all over the Constitution. There's a reason if you look around the net that you'll see people from other countries hoping the U.S. elects Ron Paul.

    I'd tell everyone where I plan on moving if things continue in this way, but I wouldn't want the country to get overcrowded. Sorry. :)

  • admriker4admriker4 Member Posts: 1,070

    Originally posted by candygirl6


     
    Originally posted by windstrike1






    Dr. Ron Paul, on todays Meet the Press show, mentioned a documentary about the illegal IRS and the illegal Federal Reserve that spawned it.  This isn't some conspiracy theory.  Do yourself a favor, watch it.  And then share it.  I'd love to hear your thought on it, after you see it.  Happy holidays!



    video.google.com/videoplay
     



    I don't like him. His stance on global warming is really close to denying it.

    I can't respect a person questioning global warming and denying scientific proof like that.

    There is no man-made global warming. Yes the planet is warming but so is every single other planet in our solar system. Amazing how emissions from my SUV are causing Pluto to warm up as well pfftt.

    Global warming is a sham. Its nothing more than another elite program to use FEAR (the elites fav weapon) to get the sheeple to demand action. And the elite's recommendation...GLOBAL CARBON TAX. This will be used to pay for a world army to defend a world goverment.

    I suppose Im wasting my breath though. Thanks to a compromised education system and constant mind manipulation, most people just arent capable of understanding how the world really works. There are medical studies that show many people's minds literally shut down when they hear words like conspiracy, etc.

    And for the person who posted we are free, just dont borrow money....Umm the second you are born you already owe the federal reserve 174,000 dollars. And its a debt that can never be repaid because each dollar printed creates more debt. thats the scam, eternal servitude to the elite bankers

  •  

    Originally posted by candygirl6


     
    Originally posted by windstrike1






    Dr. Ron Paul, on todays Meet the Press show, mentioned a documentary about the illegal IRS and the illegal Federal Reserve that spawned it.  This isn't some conspiracy theory.  Do yourself a favor, watch it.  And then share it.  I'd love to hear your thought on it, after you see it.  Happy holidays!



    video.google.com/videoplay
     



    I don't like him. His stance on global warming is really close to denying it.

    I can't respect a person questioning global warming and denying scientific proof like that.



    Did you research his points, and then compare it with what you currently know? Every scientists knows new  scientific proof can show up, dispelling old scientific proof that once was thought to be the truth.

     

    Here is an even bigger wrench to throw into the "global warming" happening. Did you know it is normal for the Earth to be far, far, warmer than it is right now? I'm talking about soo warm, that there is no ice caps at all. Imagine how that would make a "oh no global warming is melting the ice caps" crowd feel?

    Simply google "Piri Reis Map".

    The US Air Force aka US Goverment   verified that the Piri Reis map does indeed show the South Pole sans any icecap. The map shows, lakes, rivers, ponds, and streams in the South Pole! Obviouisly for this to be so, the temperature must be far, far, naturally warmer than it is right now.

    It is a good thing when people want to help the planet, support recycling, etc... But there is irrefutable evidence supporting the point that there may be no such thing as "global warming" in the sense that is being promoted now. That being current global warming is unnatural. Is man-made.

    There is plenty of proof showing global warming may very well be normal, natural, and not man-made at all.

    ------------------------------------------

    And... to go even further, there is also hardcore   evedence that goes past global warming (no matter if it is natural.). There is evidence the surface temperatures on other planets are also rising. Which means Solar warming  may be going on.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2004/07/18/wsun18.xml&sSheet=/news/2004/07/18/ixnewstop.html

    Many, European scientists have come out showing there is no such thing as global warming:

    http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2007/02/070228-mars-warming.html

    http://www.worldclimatereport.com/index.php/2006/03/21/solar-warming/

    If Solar Warming is indeed going on, then there is absolutly no such thing as global warming in the sense claimed by enviormentalists - man-made technology is melting the ice caps, and causing the planet to become more unnaturally warm than normal.

  • Originally posted by admriker4


    oh and to the poster that mentions out govt being a democracy....
    WRONG
    We are a Consitutional Republic. Learn the difference.
    In fact the founding fathers HATED democracys.
    It just shows you how ignorant the american public is when nobody corrects the politicians who constantly mention democracy and spreading it the middle east.
    In a democracy 51% of the people enslave the 49% who dont share their views. In a constitutional republic everyone has a fair voice.
    I'll give you an example....
    New York City passed a law banning smoking in restaurants. It passed 53% to 47%. There are roughly 20 million people living in New York. And about 9.4 million of them have had their freedoms restricted by 10.6 million of their neighbors. This is completely illegal and against everything our founding fathers fought and died for.
    In a Consitutional Republic, no such laws would ever be considered. It infringes upon freedom and grants the goverment too much power.
    It was far worse than that in NYC. It was the mayor alone, who seemed to wake up one day, and say "I am banning smoking in all resturants, and bars.  I don't care if non-smokers never go to those places. I don't care that no one, no one, from the public is asking me to do this. I'm going to do it no matter what".

    So it's more like .0000000000001% deciding for 99.9999999999% who don't share his views. 1 person deciding for 20+ million people. Even the non-smokers were scratching their heads - because they have existed for years with choices where to go, and never had any issues.

    It got worse and is spreading - New Jersey is now banning smoking in all casinos! LOL! And none of the public was asking for it. It seemed to come out of no where by a few politicians for no reason.

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