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PvP is actuly prety good

I see complains that Lotro has no Pvp but it does have PVP only restricted to 1 area , and in book 12 a new area will be added, but most people have not even tryed it , and it is prety good imo whit the right amount of players, i had a lot of good times and fun whit this and imo its better then most Mmo's pvp system , a shame that most people havent realy tryed it well enough to know whats it about.

For people to get an impresion , heres a video if a evening Monsterplay

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J2Ti5ctBxxA&feature=related

Think Turbine did realy well Pvp , for a game that actuly meanth to have focus on Pve.

Playing: World of Warcraft.
Played: Lord of the Rings Online, Starwars Galaxies.
Tried: Starwars the Old Republic, Everquest 2, Guild Wars, Vanguard, Age of Conan, Aion.

Comments

  • Masta22Masta22 Member Posts: 298

    yeh although I havent played much of monster play  I thank Turbine for giving us some form of pvp even if it is restricted to one area.

  • BACONXBACONX Member UncommonPosts: 253

    I was in the Ettenmoors last night and had a blast fighting Creeps. True, not the best PVP based on my experience with EVE online and WOW but it is good enough to placate the urge.

  • 8hammer88hammer8 Member Posts: 1,812

    I have tried PvMP once so far and I was not impressed with it.  It is cool that it is in there and I am sure it will be fleshed out but in it's current state I was like "MEH!"  It is no fun when you don't have a chance at beating a player when you are new and everyone is allowed to be in the same area.   1 v 1 newbie creep vs newbie freep, lmao sorry creep no chance for you.  In fact I see freeps holding their own in damn 4 v 1 settings, sorry that should not happen. 

    I have posted my feelings on this before so I won't dwell, overall it is nice that they have it, but it would be nice if they balanced it.  It will always take a back seat to me in this game anyways.  If I want PvP I go to Guild Wars.

    "It is easier to be cruel than wise. The road to wisdom is long and difficult... so most people just turn out to be assholes" Feng (Christopher Walken)

  • ShoalShoal Member Posts: 1,156

    Originally posted by 8hammer8


    I have tried PvMP once so far and I was not impressed with it.  It is cool that it is in there and I am sure it will be fleshed out but in it's current state I was like "MEH!"  It is no fun when you don't have a chance at beating a player when you are new and everyone is allowed to be in the same area.   1 v 1 newbie creep vs newbie freep, lmao sorry creep no chance for you.  In fact I see freeps holding their own in damn 4 v 1 settings, sorry that should not happen. 
    I have posted my feelings on this before so I won't dwell, overall it is nice that they have it, but it would be nice if they balanced it.  It will always take a back seat to me in this game anyways.  If I want PvP I go to Guild Wars.
    I do not think you understand the concept here.

    Any player, level 10 or better, can PvP as a level 50 monster.

    Therefore, there will ususally be a whole lot MORE monsters in play than Free Peoples.

    Thus, there needs to be a power ratio of 5 or more to one for Monsters to win.

    Jeeze, have you not even seen the movies or read the books?

    This is not 'Let's balance it for 1 on 1 fights'.  If they did that, the Free Peoples would NEVER win; they would be easily overwhelmed because there are so many more Monster players available.

    This is a totally new concept for PvP, which has previously always been with a goal of 1vs1 balance.  This is Many vs. One balanced.  Try to go with it.

  • 8hammer88hammer8 Member Posts: 1,812

    Originally posted by Shoal


     
    Originally posted by 8hammer8


    I have tried PvMP once so far and I was not impressed with it.  It is cool that it is in there and I am sure it will be fleshed out but in it's current state I was like "MEH!"  It is no fun when you don't have a chance at beating a player when you are new and everyone is allowed to be in the same area.   1 v 1 newbie creep vs newbie freep, lmao sorry creep no chance for you.  In fact I see freeps holding their own in damn 4 v 1 settings, sorry that should not happen. 
    I have posted my feelings on this before so I won't dwell, overall it is nice that they have it, but it would be nice if they balanced it.  It will always take a back seat to me in this game anyways.  If I want PvP I go to Guild Wars.
    I do not think you understand the concept here.

     

    Any player, level 10 or better, can PvP as a level 50 monster.

    Therefore, there will ususally be a whole lot MORE monsters in play than Free Peoples.

    Thus, there needs to be a power ratio of 5 or more to one for Monsters to win.

    Jeeze, have you not even seen the movies or read the books?

    This is not 'Let's balance it for 1 on 1 fights'.  If they did that, the Free Peoples would NEVER win; they would be easily overwhelmed because there are so many more Monster players available.

    This is a totally new concept for PvP, which has previously always been with a goal of 1vs1 balance.  This is Many vs. One balanced.  Try to go with it.

    I can see your point and appreciate it, but you have to look at actuallity versus concept...maybe if PvMP stood for Player versus Many Player instead of Monster Player I would say you have an even better point. 

    When I was on I heard people talking about how there were always "too many freeps on to do anything so don't even bother."  How is that supposed to make a good impression?  So I logged into MP just to sit around and do nothing in a base...excuse me if that does not get me all excited to jump back in.  There was no organization to anything going on there, there was no common goal. 

    How many people play this game to level 10 and just start MPing from there on out.  I agree not many.  How many level 40-50's are running around out in Middle Earth right now, quite a few I would imagine and who is more likely to play PvMP when they are finished with content and leveling.  Oh and all these rumblings about buglars being overpowered in MP so they had to nerf them are unfounded right?  You will have to let me know on that because I am new.  If they were nerfed because of that why, if there are soo many more creeps out there, whats a few overpowered burg's going to do?

    I have read the books twice and seen the movies numerous more times...I own the extended collection (see I am as big a nerd as you are ).  I understand the feel that they are going for...I did not see anything close to that when I logged and heard nothing like that from the people playing.  Yes more people have the opportunity, but most would rather play the game as it was orginally intended I am sure.

    Again I see your point...I just don't think it is practical or inticing to newer players in the least bit.  Thanks for the 3 skills and and the bunch of hit points so I can go out with a group of 9 others and get destroyed by 4 of my enemies who have 3 skills bars worth of skills, traits, armor enhancements.  Gee, I can't wait to get ganked again.

    PvMP is a nice idea and I hope they continue to improve it.

     

    "It is easier to be cruel than wise. The road to wisdom is long and difficult... so most people just turn out to be assholes" Feng (Christopher Walken)

  • Honeymoon69Honeymoon69 Member Posts: 647

    does lotr pvp make u want to stay up 24hrs straight ? If the answer is no then it sux.

     

     

  • Originally posted by BACONX


    I was in the Ettenmoors last night and had a blast fighting Creeps. True, not the best PVP based on my experience with EVE online and WOW but it is good enough to placate the urge.

    I can understand the EvE part but how is it inferior to WoW?  Unless you are talking about the old Southshore stuff, WoW PvP was/is nothing all that great for world PvP, mostly some worthless ganking or the occasional bit of action in EPL or whatever the equivalent is in TBC now.  I played on a PvP server at least on my pre-TBC level 60 druid, but a WoW PvE server only has BG's and although I liked the BG's (I had max AV rep) I do not think they are anything amazing and wouldn't really attempt to compare them to Ettenmoors since its rather different (ie. not match based).

  • Originally posted by 8hammer8


     
    Originally posted by Shoal


     
    Originally posted by 8hammer8


    I have tried PvMP once so far and I was not impressed with it.  It is cool that it is in there and I am sure it will be fleshed out but in it's current state I was like "MEH!"  It is no fun when you don't have a chance at beating a player when you are new and everyone is allowed to be in the same area.   1 v 1 newbie creep vs newbie freep, lmao sorry creep no chance for you.  In fact I see freeps holding their own in damn 4 v 1 settings, sorry that should not happen. 
    I have posted my feelings on this before so I won't dwell, overall it is nice that they have it, but it would be nice if they balanced it.  It will always take a back seat to me in this game anyways.  If I want PvP I go to Guild Wars.
    I do not think you understand the concept here.

     

    Any player, level 10 or better, can PvP as a level 50 monster.

    Therefore, there will ususally be a whole lot MORE monsters in play than Free Peoples.

    Thus, there needs to be a power ratio of 5 or more to one for Monsters to win.

    Jeeze, have you not even seen the movies or read the books?

    This is not 'Let's balance it for 1 on 1 fights'.  If they did that, the Free Peoples would NEVER win; they would be easily overwhelmed because there are so many more Monster players available.

    This is a totally new concept for PvP, which has previously always been with a goal of 1vs1 balance.  This is Many vs. One balanced.  Try to go with it.

     

    I can see your point and appreciate it, but you have to look at actuallity versus concept...maybe if PvMP stood for Player versus Many Player instead of Monster Player I would say you have an even better point. 

    When I was on I heard people talking about how there were always "too many freeps on to do anything so don't even bother."  How is that supposed to make a good impression?  So I logged into MP just to sit around and do nothing in a base...excuse me if that does not get me all excited to jump back in.  There was no organization to anything going on there, there was no common goal. 

    How many people play this game to level 10 and just start MPing from there on out.  I agree not many.  How many level 40-50's are running around out in Middle Earth right now, quite a few I would imagine and who is more likely to play PvMP when they are finished with content and leveling.  Oh and all these rumblings about buglars being overpowered in MP so they had to nerf them are unfounded right?  You will have to let me know on that because I am new.  If they were nerfed because of that why, if there are soo many more creeps out there, whats a few overpowered burg's going to do?

    I have read the books twice and seen the movies numerous more times...I own the extended collection (see I am as big a nerd as you are ).  I understand the feel that they are going for...I did not see anything close to that when I logged and heard nothing like that from the people playing.  Yes more people have the opportunity, but most would rather play the game as it was orginally intended I am sure.

    Again I see your point...I just don't think it is practical or inticing to newer players in the least bit.  Thanks for the 3 skills and and the bunch of hit points so I can go out with a group of 9 others and get destroyed by 4 of my enemies who have 3 skills bars worth of skills, traits, armor enhancements.  Gee, I can't wait to get ganked again.

    PvMP is a nice idea and I hope they continue to improve it.

     

    I agree with hammer and have had similar thoughts.  Basically while the 5 vs. 1 reasoning has its merits, it also has some major flaws.

    First, eventually a large number of people get a max level char.  So the ratio will change

    Second, you will have no idea what the ratio is at any one time.

    Third, the whole thing is based on the assumption that pre-built easy access will be more popular and that is a shaky assumption.

     

    I like that Turbine took a note from Guild Wars and offer a quick way into PvP.  I think its a great idea.  However I think their balance assumptions are extremely shaky to begin.  But also I have no doubt that the numbers have a very large swing to them so a static ratio is just not a great idea to begin with.

     

    With this in mind I believe they would be wise to balance based on current population and not projected popularity.  I think they can do this fairly easily by using the special PvP types, trolls/rangers.  Simply use availability of those special super classes to weight each side appropriately.  ie. Fewer monster players = more trolls and Fewer freeps = more rangers.  

    Because LOTRO is one of the few games besides EvE to have weighted units, they have two balancing mechanisms, quantity and quality.  And because they are smart enough to allow for premade, hop right in the action,  PvP chars they have the possibilty to dynamically balance things fairly decently.

     

    Sometimes people come on the channels and beg for people to come on play some Creeps because the Freeps are killing them.  Well if they followed my suggesstion here, they would not need to do this very often and due to the dynamic balancing they would only need a few new people to come on and play trolls rather than a large number of people to abandon whatever quest they are working on and make a normal creep.

     

  • AckbarNLAckbarNL Member Posts: 458

    I dont know about the ballance stuff but creeps are mostly on the winning hand on my server, also a rank 7 creep is prety good in 1 vs 1, and can even win, i dont know who got the idea of 5vs1 maby at rank 0 you would need 5 creeps but i think its ballanced rather well.

    Also freebs are a little more scared of the creeps, no idea why , there afraid to pay repair costs and lose stars more then the creeps, on my server at least i see the creeps have more adventage over the freebs imo at least

    I meself play a Warleader rank 3, have very good armor and resistance , if like 10 freebs are shooting at me at once, i can stand out at least 30 seconds, so i dont know who came whit the idea that creeps are weaker then freebs cuz imo its the other way around, if you have a maxed out creep that is whit all boxes and traits filled up, ofcourse noting sould be exspected from a rank 0 creep that iis just starting out.

    I see people posting there toughts here, who havent realy played it well i think, as i see what thay post. If you say it is 5vs1 ratio then you realy havent played it well enough.

     

    Playing: World of Warcraft.
    Played: Lord of the Rings Online, Starwars Galaxies.
    Tried: Starwars the Old Republic, Everquest 2, Guild Wars, Vanguard, Age of Conan, Aion.

  • AckbarNLAckbarNL Member Posts: 458

     

    Originally posted by Honeymoon69


    does lotr pvp make u want to stay up 24hrs straight ? If the answer is no then it sux.
     
     

     

     

    And this is just total nonsence...

    Do you want to watch TV 24hrs straight ? If the answer is no then it sux.

    Do you want to ride a Rollercoaster 24hrs straight ? If the answer is no then it sux.

    Do you want to Work 24hrs straight ? If the answer is no then it sux.

    Do you want to play any Game 24hrs straight ? If the answer is no then it sux.

    It does not make any sence.

     

    Playing: World of Warcraft.
    Played: Lord of the Rings Online, Starwars Galaxies.
    Tried: Starwars the Old Republic, Everquest 2, Guild Wars, Vanguard, Age of Conan, Aion.

  • CropperCropper Member Posts: 198

    I had alot of fun with MP at first, in fact is was the only thing that kept me playing the game, but at the time I left (brandywine) the numbers never balanced, the CC was horrible and the community was beginning to get bad with freeps coming over to the creep side to trigger bugs and to generally be whiny children.  PvP mostly amounted to shuffling between TR and GV or Grams and Lug, in a word, boring.  I had a rank 4 (nearly 5) Warleader and a rank 4 BA, my bro had a rank 7 Stalker so we spent loads of time with it had alot of fun, when it quit being fun we quit.  You're right it's not bad PvP, but Turbines vision of MP isn't one that's gonna make it better, it got worse with every patch.  Have fun and enjoy.

  • YeeboYeebo Member Posts: 1,359

    I would say that in large groups, PvMP is fun on either side.  Even at close to even numbers, things get pretty wild when a couple of raid groups go at it.  Don't expect to be taking any keeps without numbers on your side if you are playing a creep.  But if you play smart you can still have some good skirmishes and get some kills.  Freeps tend to be overconfident from what I've seen.

    It's not much fun in a small group, or solo.  The imbalance between creeps and freeps really shows in this situation. 

    About all you can do as a solo creep is farm destiny for abilities.  There are some very good spots for it.  Luring NPCs into the castle guards is popular, but there are much better spots for it that aren't as well know where you can wrack up a crap ton of destiny solo.  But for me even that gets stale pretty quick. 

    I think what Turbine needs to do is implement a system when creeps get bonus ranks depending on the creep  / freep ratio.  Whenever there aren't more creeps than freeps on, give all the creeps temporary bonus ranks to make things more even.

    I don't want to write this, and you don't want to read it. But now it's too late for both of us.

  • 8hammer88hammer8 Member Posts: 1,812

    Originally posted by sandage


    I dont know about the ballance stuff but creeps are mostly on the winning hand on my server, also a rank 7 creep is prety good in 1 vs 1, and can even win, i dont know who got the idea of 5vs1 maby at rank 0 you would need 5 creeps but i think its ballanced rather well.
    Also freebs are a little more scared of the creeps, no idea why , there afraid to pay repair costs and lose stars more then the creeps, on my server at least i see the creeps have more adventage over the freebs imo at least
    I meself play a Warleader rank 3, have very good armor and resistance , if like 10 freebs are shooting at me at once, i can stand out at least 30 seconds, so i dont know who came whit the idea that creeps are weaker then freebs cuz imo its the other way around, if you have a maxed out creep that is whit all boxes and traits filled up, ofcourse noting sould be exspected from a rank 0 creep that iis just starting out.
    Also i see people posting there toughts here , who havent realy played it well i think.

    Playing PvMP A Lot  -vs- Playing PvMP Well -vs- Wanting To Play PvMP are all different things...

    In my case how could I have played my character better when I go out and try to kill a few slugs and myself and 2 others are killed right away by a group of 4 freeps.  We go get a group of 9 others and still can not do anything and die a few times over.  That was not enjoyable...in was fun for the first little bit forming a raid party but once the realization set in that there was no chance 10 vs 4 the fun wore off reaaaallll quick. 

    Why would I continue to play something that was no fun?  Even if I played my character flawlessly it would have made little difference in these skimishs.  For me it is a little bit of "the chicken and the egg arguement," Do I want to play something a lot to get good at it so I can have some fun, or would I rather, have some fun play it a lot so I get good at it and want to play it?  For me I would rather have fun right away not work at it.  I like beer, my wife doesn't...her friends tell her "it is an acquired taste," and she always argues why would I keep drinking something that does not taste good.  That is my current arguement for PvMP IN ITS CURRENT FORM...not saying that won't change.

    "It is easier to be cruel than wise. The road to wisdom is long and difficult... so most people just turn out to be assholes" Feng (Christopher Walken)

  • AckbarNLAckbarNL Member Posts: 458

     

    Originally posted by 8hammer8


     
    Originally posted by sandage


    I dont know about the ballance stuff but creeps are mostly on the winning hand on my server, also a rank 7 creep is prety good in 1 vs 1, and can even win, i dont know who got the idea of 5vs1 maby at rank 0 you would need 5 creeps but i think its ballanced rather well.
    Also freebs are a little more scared of the creeps, no idea why , there afraid to pay repair costs and lose stars more then the creeps, on my server at least i see the creeps have more adventage over the freebs imo at least
    I meself play a Warleader rank 3, have very good armor and resistance , if like 10 freebs are shooting at me at once, i can stand out at least 30 seconds, so i dont know who came whit the idea that creeps are weaker then freebs cuz imo its the other way around, if you have a maxed out creep that is whit all boxes and traits filled up, ofcourse noting sould be exspected from a rank 0 creep that iis just starting out.
    Also i see people posting there toughts here , who havent realy played it well i think.

     

    Playing PvMP A Lot  -vs- Playing PvMP Well -vs- Wanting To Play PvMP are all different things...

    In my case how could I have played my character better when I go out and try to kill a few slugs and myself and 2 others are killed right away by a group of 4 freeps.  We go get a group of 9 others and still can not do anything and die a few times over.  That was not enjoyable...in was fun for the first little bit forming a raid party but once the realization set in that there was no chance 10 vs 4 the fun wore off reaaaallll quick. 

    Why would I continue to play something that was no fun?  Even if I played my character flawlessly it would have made little difference in these skimishs.  For me it is a little bit of "the chicken and the egg arguement," Do I want to play something a lot to get good at it so I can have some fun, or would I rather, have some fun play it a lot so I get good at it and want to play it?  For me I would rather have fun right away not work at it.  I like beer, my wife doesn't...her friends tell her "it is an acquired taste," and she always argues why would I keep drinking something that does not taste good.  That is my current arguement for PvMP IN ITS CURRENT FORM...not saying that won't change.



    If that happend to you i can understand, i gess you were just very unlucky or played at the wrong time in the wrong area or on the wrong server, but if thaths the only thing you did in pvmp then you also have seen very little of it you have to understand that a rank 0 creep is very weak and by no chance sould be compaired whit a level 50 freeb and it does not mean you cant enjoy yourself as a rank 0 creep, but you sould be a little more carefull and watch the higher ranks and elite players to learn from them, I meself have 10000 infamity and have enjoyed it for a lot of weeks, so yes pvmp can be realy fun indeed but i got to amid there also times that are less fun. altrough does times come acros very little on my EU server.

     I play on my freeb as on my creep, altrough i prefer playing on my creep as it seems im more capeable whit him then my freeb, also i found this argument people use "why continue something you dont enjoy" very weak, becouse maby you havent seen all of it and havent played it well enough to understand whats it about , im not saying you cant have an opion about the time that you did play, but if that was based on 1 try then im not giving that opinion any credit at all whatsoever.

    And btw you got to learn to drink beer before it becomes good.

    Playing: World of Warcraft.
    Played: Lord of the Rings Online, Starwars Galaxies.
    Tried: Starwars the Old Republic, Everquest 2, Guild Wars, Vanguard, Age of Conan, Aion.

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