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New Blizzard MMO - copy of what ?
sanicek
Member UncommonPosts: 368
Let's face it, what Blizzard is best at is taking an existing idea, copying it, wrapping it up in their own stuff and then polishing it, making it accessible for masses and outshining the original.
Once upon a time they saw Dune 2 and thought how great it would be with the Warhammer setting. When getting the setting didnt go well, they just made their own copy based on it. And success it was.
After 2 games they decided that something like WH40k wouldnt hurt too and just for the heck of it they merged it with Alien and Predator and StarCraft was born.
W3 was another logical step in the 3D era. And after that the best and worst thing to ever happen to MMOs, taking Everquest, applying Diablo system to it and placing it in Warcraft universe, WoW was born.
Every game just enhanced, polished and very accessible version of an existing blueprint.
So my question is, what do you guys think will be the next MMO from Blizzard based on? Can we hope this time they make for example EVE clone? Or just Everquest with guns and lazers again? Or even *gasp* something entirely original?
EDIT: Just to make it clear, game system wise, setting is most probably SC 
Subscribtions: EVE, SWTOR WOW, WAR, DDO, VG, AOC, COV, FFXI, GW, RFO, Aion
+plenty of F2P, betas, trials
Female Dwarf player: WOW, VG, WAR, DDO
.
Due to the recent economic crisis and spending cuts the light at the end of the tunnel was turned off. Sincerely, God.
Comments
I can't remember Blizzard doing anything with Warhammer... as EA is the first company to create a computer game based of Warhammer.
And WoW was original, except for the Warcraft lore behind it. They didn't add that much of Diablo in it, otherwise it would be similar to.. Diablo.
You know it, the best way to realize your dreams is waking up and start moving, never lose hope and always keep up.
I could be wrong but didn't Blizzard ask Games-Workshop if they could develop a strategy game based on the Warhammer lore but got turned down, so they created Warcraft?
I could be wrong but didn't Blizzard ask Games-Workshop if they could develop a strategy game based on the Warhammer lore but got turned down, so they created Warcraft?
You are correct which is why many people will claim that most of the warcraft universe is modeled after warhammer.
You spout nothing but uninformed assumptions and usual hate for a product that is as popular as WoW is. If Warhammer Online is this popular there will be an entire community like this website hating on it and purposely lowering the ratings by voting it low.
This site is so notoriously and blatantly anti-WoW that it's sick. Too many children.
Edit: I don't understand why people can't play the games they like and show their support for it without trying to bash on the likes of others.
I dont know where you see the hate, I believe I'm only stating the obvious. I'm actually a WoW subsciber as its still the best fantasy MMO out there (hopefully only till march). And as you can plainly read I stated that Blizz is really good at making quality products with mass appeal, that is the area they excel at. However they never make anything innovative so I'm wondering what blueprint will they base their next MMO on.
Subscribtions: EVE, SWTOR WOW, WAR, DDO, VG, AOC, COV, FFXI, GW, RFO, Aion
+plenty of F2P, betas, trials
Female Dwarf player: WOW, VG, WAR, DDO
.
Due to the recent economic crisis and spending cuts the light at the end of the tunnel was turned off. Sincerely, God.
I dont know where you see the hate, I believe I'm only stating the obvious. I'm actually a WoW subsciber as its still the best fantasy MMO out there (hopefully only till march). And as you can plainly read I stated that Blizz is really good at making quality products with mass appeal, that is the area they excel at. However they never make anything innovative so I'm wondering what blueprint will they base their next MMO on.
Same can be said of any MMO. All of them are blueprinted from UO and up. And if I recall, Diablo I and II were highly innovative and created that genre. Also, wasn't Warhammer still in tabletop form when Warcraft was created?
Throughout history people have learned from the past and made improvements on an idea. It's what art and creation are all about. You can't sit here and tell me your post isn't being blatantly antagonistic.
If people didn't improve on and expand ideas of the past, we would not be where we are today in the world.
Firstly no artist(s) can make anything entirely original. Everything that man knows and what we make is based upon pass knowledge. And that is what makes what humans do so incredible.
In any case, a good game to me is not based upon its initial idea or lore, it is based more in its game mechanics. A good game-maker should focus heavy amounts of attention on how the user will approach the game play. Too many mmo's are not seeking to be innovative in this area and instead settling for the mmorpg genre's "cannon" if you will. This is very problematic and it seems more and more people are noticing it. MMORPG's take a large amount of commitment compared to other kinds of games. And a gamer who sees the same kind of mechanics across the board will be hard pressed to find the incentive to switch to a new MMO that has the same qualites but maybe a new flavor. Moreover, not only will lack of innovation affect the success of the game itself, but the more that this "rehashing" continues the more it will give diminishing returns to the genre itself.
I'm not a big WOW fan, but I've put a good enough amount of time (and money) into to give an opinion on it. To me the game has a great quantity of "stuff" in it. Very nice graphics for the tone of the the game, and pretty decent community. However, after a couple of months I just couldn't stand to play anymore. The game mechanics were not flattering at all. And so many things seemed more cumbersome than fun. I tried the PVP which was also nothing that interesting. The game itself seemed wondrous so I would start playing, but then I soon afterward would get bored with it and seek out another game.
I know that not all gamers like the same game mechanics, but not all people like MMO's either. But that obviuosly doesn't stop these comapanies from making more MMO's. if Blizzard does decide to make a new MMO (which I don't know why they would since there are having so much ongoing success with WOW), there is really no telling what they will do. They're a good company with a lot experience, but it all depends on the ultimate goal they have for any given game they make. The same goes for any other company.
I doubt the OP in any way was trying to slander Blizzard or claim that being unoriginal is a bad thing. Im a big Blizzard fan but even i can see that Blizzard very rarely have new ideas, they just create the best bloody games that they can with ideas that they have gotten from other games. Is that a bad thing? Not at all, its the way the market works.
But to get back on the question at hand what will be the rolemodel of their new MMO? Personally I hope to god its a mix of EVE and WoW, a rough space adventure but with avatar and all that comes with it. Im probably wrong though.
Not true. Diablo and Warcraft I were very original games, nothing like them really at the time they were released. Starcraft was not copied off of Warhammer, it's simply Warcraft in space. I'm certain they were influenced by Warhammer, but there was no Warhammer RTS at the time so they did not just copy a game. You're hypothesis is based on faulty logic in my opinion.
It will be a Starcraft MMO. Since GW gave Vigil games the rights to WH40k MMO Blizz will get Starcraft out so everyone can argue all over again which IP came first.
Not true. Diablo and Warcraft I were very original games, nothing like them really at the time they were released. Starcraft was not copied off of Warhammer, it's simply Warcraft in space. I'm certain they were influenced by Warhammer, but there was no Warhammer RTS at the time so they did not just copy a game. You're hypothesis is based on faulty logic in my opinion.
You dont have to have a game already developed to have your IP copied...
I could be wrong but didn't Blizzard ask Games-Workshop if they could develop a strategy game based on the Warhammer lore but got turned down, so they created Warcraft?
Yes, they did. But there was no existing RTS game they patterned the game after, just the Warhammer universe.
Not true. Diablo and Warcraft I were very original games, nothing like them really at the time they were released. Starcraft was not copied off of Warhammer, it's simply Warcraft in space. I'm certain they were influenced by Warhammer, but there was no Warhammer RTS at the time so they did not just copy a game. You're hypothesis is based on faulty logic in my opinion.
You dont have to have a game already developed to have your IP copied...
And which IP did Diablo copy?
Warcraft was not original at all. Game system of Dune 2 with setting initialy intended to be that of Warhammer universe. After they didnt get the permission from Games Workshop they just made they own Warhammer-like setting to utilize already existing resources.
And again let me stress both were really good and playable games, however nothing that inovative.
Subscribtions: EVE, SWTOR WOW, WAR, DDO, VG, AOC, COV, FFXI, GW, RFO, Aion
+plenty of F2P, betas, trials
Female Dwarf player: WOW, VG, WAR, DDO
.
Due to the recent economic crisis and spending cuts the light at the end of the tunnel was turned off. Sincerely, God.
Warcraft was not original at all. Game system of Dune 2 with setting initialy intended to be that of Warhammer universe. After they didnt get the permission from Games Workshop they just made they own Warhammer-like setting to utilize already existing resources.
And again let me stress both were really good and playable games, however nothing that inovative.
They only have 3 IP's Diablo, Warcraft and Starcraft. I don't believe that 2 out 3 qualifies as necessarily setting a precedent especially when Warcraft and Starcraft are basically both from the Warhammer universe (1 from Warhammer and the other from Warhammer 40k). Most games are based off an existing IP or very close to an existing IP. The same goes for the genre. Every single RTS gets it's roots from Dune II, that doesn't mean they just copied the game. If you're gonna claim this about Blizzard you might as well say that every single game developer is really only good at taking an existing IP and genre and polishing it. It's a weak argument.
Warcraft was not original at all. Game system of Dune 2 with setting initialy intended to be that of Warhammer universe. After they didnt get the permission from Games Workshop they just made they own Warhammer-like setting to utilize already existing resources.
And again let me stress both were really good and playable games, however nothing that inovative.
They only have 3 IP's Diablo, Warcraft and Starcraft. I don't believe that 2 out 3 qualifies as necessarily setting a precedent especially when Warcraft and Starcraft are basically both from the Warhammer universe (1 from Warhammer and the other from Warhammer 40k). Most games are based off an existing IP or very close to an existing IP. If you're gonna claim this about Blizzard you might as well say that every single game developer is really only good at taking an existing IP and polishing it. It's a weak argument.
Actually if you read my OP you will se that the setting or IP is not the question, that is with most probability StarCraft, what the point is however, what will be the game system like? Because WOW is as I said EQ splashed with Diablo system, a successfull formula at that time however repeated by 90% of all MMOs out there nowadays. Everyone makes WoW clones, except WoW is a clone by itself anyway. Every MMO has a few unique features, however the base system remains almost the same. There are only very few that go some entirely different way, EVE comes to mind as an example.
Personaly I hope Blizzard will go for game system that is completely different form the current one, tbh if they cloned EVE with StarCraft setting it wouldnt be all that bad. Lets just pray its not yet another linear progression PvE game with all the flaws the genre has.
Subscribtions: EVE, SWTOR WOW, WAR, DDO, VG, AOC, COV, FFXI, GW, RFO, Aion
+plenty of F2P, betas, trials
Female Dwarf player: WOW, VG, WAR, DDO
.
Due to the recent economic crisis and spending cuts the light at the end of the tunnel was turned off. Sincerely, God.
You are forgetting 2 other IPs though. Lost Vikings- an ancient Blizz game, can meet them in the Uldaman dig. And Blackthorne, a very cool sidescroll action/rpg type game for SNES. Those areboth original, though hardly groundbreaking games. What Blizzard does best-and admits to, is taking existing trends, and polishing them to near perfection. Simple, smooth, efficient games. But they're not very groundbreaking or original- hardly anything is.
As for the OP's logic-yes, it is accurate, by Blizzard's own comments over the years. Want proof, go find it. I'm not your teacher, no one gave me a paycheck to spout pagenumbers for you.
Warcraft was not original at all. Game system of Dune 2 with setting initialy intended to be that of Warhammer universe. After they didnt get the permission from Games Workshop they just made they own Warhammer-like setting to utilize already existing resources.
And again let me stress both were really good and playable games, however nothing that inovative.
They only have 3 IP's Diablo, Warcraft and Starcraft. I don't believe that 2 out 3 qualifies as necessarily setting a precedent especially when Warcraft and Starcraft are basically both from the Warhammer universe (1 from Warhammer and the other from Warhammer 40k). Most games are based off an existing IP or very close to an existing IP. If you're gonna claim this about Blizzard you might as well say that every single game developer is really only good at taking an existing IP and polishing it. It's a weak argument.
Actually if you read my OP you will se that the setting or IP is not the question, that is with most probability StarCraft, what the point is however, what will be the game system like? Because WOW is as I said EQ splashed with Diablo system, a successfull formula at that time however repeated by 90% of all MMOs out there nowadays. Everyone makes WoW clones, except WoW is a clone by itself anyway. Every MMO has a few unique features, however the base system remains almost the same. There are only very few that go some entirely different way, EVE comes to mind as an example.
Personaly I hope Blizzard will go for game system that is completely different form the current one, tbh if they cloned EVE with StarCraft setting it wouldnt be all that bad. Lets just pray its not yet another linear progression PvE game with all the flaws the genre has.
I did read your OP and your initial hypothesis was that since Blizzard is really only good at taking an existing game and polishing it, their new MMO must therefore be based off an exsiting game, but since Diablo did not take an existing game and polish it, your argument is flawed from the get go. And you can't claim that Blizzard is copying one of their OWN games (Diablo). That's like saying Diablo II is a copy of Diablo. Um, yeah. What's your point?
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And which IP did Diablo copy?[/b][/quote]
They basically copied every roleplaying game on the market at the time and made it more NOT like a real roleplaying game, for the people who wanted to play a roleplaying game but didn't want to play in a story and or have dept and meaning, just click, click, click..great concept
/Junker
When you take an existing idea and make a fundamental change to it, that's called an original idea. Whether or not it's a good idea is for everyone else to judge.
how many more posts like this will we have to endure?
The rubber wheel is just an enhanced, polished and very accessible version of an existing blueprint, the first wheel carved from rock (or made from wood, who knows)....
But I don't see you complaining about that?
The modern jumbo jet is just an enhanced, polished and very accessible version of an existing blueprint, the first planes built by the Wright Brothers....
Do you get my point?
Taking what came before, and making it better is called "progress." Throwing out what works and trying something completely different will sometimes yield fantastic results, but you'll also end up with a LOT of duds. When you're investing millions of dollars into creating a MMORPG, do you really want to risk making a dud?
Who cares, as long as it's sci-fi, PVP based extravaganza. If it gives me at least half the amount of good times I had in WoW, whooopty do, let the celebrations begin.
All of this has hapend before and it will happen again.
Actually, Blizzard is one of the the only two companies that I will buy any game they make, sight unseen. The other is Bioware. And yet, I recognize that the OP's assertions are mostly right. That's what Blizz does - they take a genre and an idea, and they make something that no one else can challenge. WoW wasn't original. But it's the best. War wasn't original, but it was awesome. Starcraft isn't a new idea, but it's probably still the best executed RTS out there.
I worship Blizz because I understand them - they are brilliant. They are skilled. But they aren't mold breakers. They are master craftsmen. That is *not* a bash. It's a reverent worship. I own every version of War (2 copies of most). I have all of SC. I have Diablo, Hellfire, D2, D2:LoD, and innumerable mods. I've played WoW since the first open beta. I have The Lord of the Clans novel, for gehods sake. I even have a copy of the Lost Vikings. I am the very definition of a fan boy.
They may try to break that mold, and do MMO 2.0 - But I bet it will take existing ideas, improve them, and blow us away.
Or it might be an MMOFPS, set in SC's universe - a sort of spiritual successor to SC: Ghost?
Who am I?
@Lorechaser on CoH
Badjuju, Splinterhoof, Plainsrunner on WoW (Moonrunner)
Shyy'rissk on SWG (Flurry)
ClockworkSoldier, HE Pierce, Letnev on Planetside
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And many more.
I think you are over-exaggurating the extent to which Blizzard gets its ideas. Back when I was playing Warcraft II and III and Diablo II, me and the people I knew were pretty light gamers. We had never heard of Dune II, Warhammer40k or everquest. I imagine thats much like the fact that no one heard of the little crappy companies Bill Gates got his ideas from when he first started microsoft.
If Blizzard games are so much more popular than their predecesors then they must be doing something significantly different. I can't tell you what, since I never played those other games you mentioned (like so many other thousands of people). But if I sat down and wrote an MMO that took place in space and it got 9 million subs, I'm sure youd be on here in a flash saying I copied SWG and EVE even though I had never played those games.
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"Everything is awesome. Fundamentally."
I do remember that when wow was in beta or release im not sure...
People wanted to have a Auction House based on Final Fantasy Online,
wich Blizzard did and implemented it.
So its not only Blizzard that actualy takes the ideas and polish them but its also from requests of other MMO players that like something from another game that they want to see it implimented.