A Question about WoW's "Perfection of Unoriginality"

Leonard_Six · July 2004

I decided to post this here rather than the WoW forums because the question is geared more towards non-WoW fans, but still towards everyone. It also includes consideration of other games.

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The inspiration for this post came in part from the "Is the Industry Waking Up?" article over at Stratics. http://www.stratics.com/content/articles/industrywaking.php And from the comments made by Orrc and Rentantilus in the "RELEASE of WoW" thread.

For some time now I have and I think we all have been hearing reports regarding WoW pointing out that it doesn't really have anything we haven't seen before, albeit WoW is doing it in a slicker style and without all the lag, bugs, and jackass design decisions (Jedi) that other company's like SOE et el had included, but still it wasn't really anything that was all that original and certainly nothing that would be considered really Revolutionary.

I think any of us that has been through a couple MMORPG releases has heard the various company lines about "Seamless Worlds", "Dynamic Content", and the one that seems to be most popular these days "Quests that Actually MEAN Something". I was recently reading a Dev Diary that I believe was from an MEO Quest Dev and he was saying that exact same line. "Quests that Actually MEAN Something". He then went on to say that, for example with the well known "Kill 10 Wolves" type quest, the key was to give the PC a REASON for doing this. I have to admit I was a pretty surprised at what I thought was something that was pretty ridiculous. After all I think any of us that have done the "Kill 10 Wolves" type of quest in any of the numerous MMORPG's that have been out for years, before MEO even went into development, remember that when the in game Quest Giver tells us to go "Kill 10 Wolves" he usually mumbles something lame about how the wolves are harassing the townsfolk. The point was that what this guy was saying was not even close to anything new. Furthermore the implication that they would be hiring all these great writers meant nothing because having slightly better writers give slightly better reasons for doing a Quest isn't what would be considered Original and certainly not Revolutionary.

Anyway I've been hearing that WoW was relatively unoriginal and not Next Generation for sometime, and I would probably agree with this. Some have even expanded to say that no game has been Next Gen since UO and EQ. I'm not sure if I completely agree with that, I suppose it would have a lot to do with what one considers Next Gen to be and how big of a leap one requires a game to make for it to be a Generation above another game. Some would say that with the current MMORPG Quality Standards just having frigging Housing and Mounts in at release and working correctly would be Miracle enough to warrant the game being called Next Gen. On the other end of the spectrum some would say that no game has really changed all that much from EQ and that Next Gen won't happen until we're connecting to our favorite MMORPG by plugging a Bioelectrical USB Interface into the backs of our heads to log into the games Virtual Reality World. Regardless that's a long and in depth debate for another thread, so I don't want to get into it here.

But I would say that I accept WoW for what it is. Not that my own opinion of WoW has anything to do with the point of this thread but frankly I could almost care less about seeing a game with anything revolutionary in it at this point. The Industry standard is so low right now because we'll all buy whatever we can get our hands on to tide us over until some company that doesn't care about next quarter's bottom line convinces their whiny investors to include the extra 10 or 20 million dollars in the budget and spends the extra one or even two years testing to create for us the Ultimate Holy Grail of Supreme MMORPG Ownage.

/RANT ON

I guess I'm just so sick and disgusted at playing an "immersive experience MMORPG" where I can't even jump(SWG) or walk close to town without lag crashing even with my 1.21 Gigawatt Super Computer (What the Hell is a Gigawatt??!) that I'm more interested in seeing a game that fixes all the moronic failings of the other games on the market, things like multiple characters per server(SWG), Dungeons(Horizons), Housing, Pets, Mounts, No Lag, Balanced Classes, Consensual PvP and all the rest of the little nick nacks that we all know and love IN AT RELEASE instead of after we've been paying for it for two years. So I'm not sure if I'm all that concerned with seeing any Revolutionary Ideas especially when they'll probably be coming with Revolutionary Lag and Revolutionary Bugs. These company's can't even release a game with a quarter of the advertised content, which is why it's so amazing to hear people talk about MMORPG's as if we're sometime soon going to be plugging in Cerebral Cortex Virtual Reality jacks into the backs of our heads or have Holodecks in our Garages. I remember hearing a quote, that I think originated sometime around World War II regarding how quickly the bomb was created; it was something like "Necessity is the Mother of Invention." Which basically means that they are not going to make it until they absolutely have to in order to survive. So the moral is that if everyone keeps purchasing the sub par quality stuff that's being handed to them than these companies and their investors aren't EVER going to be motivated to spend the extra cash to create any of the cool things that we all want that actually are Next Gen like VR and what not.

/RANT OFF

But the point of this post wasn't to rant about or defend WoW and it wasn't to chide my fellow gamers for being the very reinforcing catalyst to the current low Quality Standard problem in the MMORPG Industry. So now that I've gotten all that off my chest, I'll post my original QUESTION.

I think we've established that, WoW, while it's certainly cleaned up much of the mess made by other games on a quality level, is still overall relatively unoriginal and certainly not revolutionary. So my question for all you folks is' what do YOU think is Original? Or Revolutionary?

I'll be the first to say it's not better writers with better reasons for going out and Killing 10 Wolves. No matter how you dress it up with fluffy flavor text your still going out and Killing 10 stupid Wolves. So then how about "Triggers", I heard WoW is including some triggers in their quests stuff like having to use a Cannon to blow open a door. That sounds pretty cool I suppose but I don't know if I'd go as far as to say it's all that Original or Revolutionary. Also people that would say VR is the Next Generation can't really blame the Industry for not being even close to something like that, the reason being covered already in my rant.

So what does everyone think? We all want Seamless Worlds, Dynamic Content, and Quests that MEAN something. But let's not talk in company lines and fluffy flavor text.

The real question is what, technically, and specifically, do you think creates those particular things in an MMORPG?

zoey121 · July 2004

i do not think the up and coming will be ground breaking on today's technology and different folks video cards whatever the makers of these games lead us to believe

however i did notice that stellar graphics mean nada if basic game play is buggy and boring

i would rather see static landscape low video rendering &, even zones, then dealing with trees suddenly popin in, headches while things appear and redrawing trying to catch up with movement and lag created by moving enviorment

game play for some wack a mole, is fine if there are other things to do as well, fishing mini games crafting

if useable loot is present ,and perhaps different, instead of fotm have to template can keep folks entertained too

forced grouping a no no no for some and others miss the grouping structure that made being in a group worth while

ie better expearince/ and nicer loot

so even if things aren't steller, but basic structure, is there what classes there work, mobs to be found rather skill or level

this game will have a chance

why cause so many folks want it to do well

perhaps not so grand scale is more important and things working well, then all the bells and whistels and much of it in not working shape is what may keep folks happy for a while

after all if one is having fun and entertained thats whats its all about

Eanwen · July 2004

There are a few games out there that promise to be different, but how different I dunno.

I think that mmogs should look towards a lot of single player games (and not just rpgs) for ideas.

Let's take rogues for example. MMOGs have done a poor job in providing skill and content to flesh out this profession. On the other hand, everyone raves about the first two Thief games.

Umbrood · July 2004

My vision of "totally dynamic"

You start out with absolutely no skills, the most rudimentare quipment and so on. Things is by no skills you do not even have a skill treem no nothing, you have say 10 HP or whatever. Whatever you do from this point will mold your character. There are no skills other then the ones you use, and if the skill does not exist then one will be created. For example..

Enters world:
Talk to guide: [New skill aquired. TALK] (The talk skill was CREATED by the first character who actually talked in game)
You: Nice weather aint it? [New skill aquired. SMALLTALK]
Guide: Here take this gun, (throw gun on ground)
You pick it up: [New skill aquired. Pick up stuff]
You: Hey what am I to do with this I am a pacifist. (you throw the gun away, hitting a pot that breaks) [New skill created and aquired. Throw handguns at pottery] (This is the first time anyone does this so the skill as it does not exist is created)

Well I might be exaggerating here a bit but you get what I am aiming for, the game should adopt to the players and absolutely anything should be doable. Crafting skills and recipies, figthing skills with everything from small teaspoons, your thumbs, to imperial star destroyers.. Hobbys, knowledge and composere. Every physical and mental stat should be moldable..

What I am in fact asking for is a game that works pretty much like a pen and paper RPG, played with a very very good GM. No boundaries....

CIM_LW · July 2004

Oh please, nothing these days is original. Everything is nothing but a better clone (usually) of something else. All game genres are exactly the same, not just MMORPGs. Hell, just look at all the WW2 shooters, the stealth games and FPS games -- nothing but the same. Even Doom 3 is nothing but Doom with better graphics and sound with a few other enhancments.

I say to all the whiners, just don't play the game if you don't like its "unoriginality". No, you'll be the first one in line for the game come release time. You just like ranting on forums about something that'll never change.

Perm2069 · July 2004

based on what i've seen in all mmo's, regarding quests especially, is that you will always have the ''kill ten wolves'' to it. you can put as many skins on it as you want, by makeing it tigers, bears, crazy drunk people, server gods, etc... its all just killing.

however,

looking beyond the ''kill ten wolvs'' theory, its what the plot is. lets take current EQ for example. as far as i know, you have differant relegions, factions, and races that are against each other. on some server it is devided into 2 teams in the server, and others its divided into 6, etc, etc. haveing people playing against people really makes for no plot in the game. but what is there is the quests that make the plot, or the ability to gain and lose faction with your own kind or other kinds to achive higher levels of game play. thats where the plot is.

by me saying this, im not bashing all other games in favor of WoW.
with WoW, there is an obvious story line, and this is yet another chapter to the warcraft series. yeah, you have the ''kill ten wolves'' quest in this one, and yeah, its for a meaning. the meaning is what you as the player get out of the plot or story line.

as far as im conserened, the ''next generation'' as its called, is very far off with the VR. i dont think to make that affective, that we as home useres have the right equipment to make that happen. as for the technical aspect of games that we currently have, mmo's, i think that things can always be improved, things like makeing sure it runs right, or that it can render the trees correctly as you run through a forrest. for now, this is all that can be improved.

if you look at it in a differant light, an mmorpg is no more than playing dongeons and dragons. me and my friends used to play over the phone, could that count as the internet? yeah, you had to be honest while rolling the die, but playing dnd was just like an mmorpg, just with a differant feel to it. thats right, you had to use your imagination for it instead of haveing a computer render you up some polygons to look at.

for now, untill physical technology enables it, we will have to stick with the ''kill ten wolves'' with differant skins. but these differant skins will have differant plots, makeing them differant games.

feel free to use your imagination while playing a computer based game, it ads to the fun of it all.

if you think that WoW, or EQ2 or anything else thats comeing out in the near future is all the same, then you are wrong in my opinion. if you take it as just ''killing ten wolves'' then it wont be any differant. but of you look at a plot or story line before you play, or while you play, you can play anything and enjoy it, as long as other players online dont mess it up.

diegofrgc · July 2004

I think WoW is going to be a simple hack n slash mmorpg.

I think Guild Wars will start the next generation , because any mmorpg have done revolutionary changes.

EverQuest 2 wont revolutionize mmorpgs, itll just add graphics and voices, thats not revolutionary.

I think people will look forward mmorpgs with Guild Wars

CIM_LW · July 2004

Originally posted by diegofrgc

I think WoW is going to be a simple hack n slash mmorpg.
I think Guild Wars will start the next generation , because any mmorpg have done revolutionary changes.
EverQuest 2 wont revolutionize mmorpgs, itll just add graphics and voices, thats not revolutionary.
I think people will look forward mmorpgs with Guild Wars

You call WoW a simple hack and slash but Guild Wars is a revolution? It sounds like you don't have a clue what you're talking about. First, Guild Wars is the simple hack and slash. It's nothing more than a Diablo clone. Second, I wouldn't even call Guild Wars a MMORPG, so comparing it to WoW is just wrong.

Medivh1984 · July 2004

Yah, I've read so many posts about the main games we're all anticipating, I don't even know what to say anymore, though I have to admit, in reference to one of the previous posts about "Guild Wars being the Next Generation"..........unless it comes A VERY LONG WAY from their E3 Free Trial, then it will remain very hack n' slash, and will fall in with what seems to be common among mmorpg's. And I agree about the Story beign a very core element. If I was playing for very original ideas....I probably would't be playing MMORPG's as much, cause the general base between games like Everquest, Anarchy Online, Dark Age of Camelot, etc. etc. is essentially the same idea.....but what makes them each popular and exciting for players, is the unique worlds, the new types of adventures, and what not.........right now I'm leaning toward World of Warcraft when it comes out.....jsut cause....well, who dosn't like the Warcraft Universe and Storyline??? (And I'm tired of Norrath for now :P)

Cyan8313 · July 2004

Well one game I can think of that doesn't have the kill 10 wolfs thing is Face of Mankind. There the missions/quests will be to kill other players... If they get that to work and work well is another question. But if they succeed then that and the no lvl grind will make it if not revolutionary then atleast original.

What I would like to se in mmo's is the little things. A quick ingame ciematic after a quest where you see your character with his eq and everything and then whatever... Grass and trees on fire after you cast that lvl 50 fire spell and scorch marks on the ground... More or less a less statis world, atleast where it doesn't count. I would like to se that my meteor creates a crater, I don't care if it is gone after 10 min you know.

C

gseimon · July 2004

im glad this post is up, im also glad i stubbled apon it because i usally dont surf these forums. im pretty new to MMOs, ive tried a few betas or free trials, but my first and only MMO that ive bought and paid for was CoH. i cancled that a few days ago, i accidentally paied for a month, i didnt mean to i just wanted to play the free month because the game just had nothing in it. this brings me to a good point though:

city of heroes, amazing idea. this game had the makings of something big, but as many know its missing a ton of critical parts of a pay 2 play game (reason to play). after my 300th "kill 10 hellions" and "random text indoor mission" i got pretty mad. every mission was exactly the same, no joke. not even different text on most missions. all this aside though, i believe that this game could have been the wake up the industry needed. great graphics, no lag, very original, fun combat system, it was almost like playing a single player game with lots of people (if that makes sence). now if the game gets a mirical expandtion that makes hundereds of unique missions, amazing and useful AND balaced crafting, action-packed AND balanced PvP, more customization (i know its the best thus far, but more is better), total balance of all classes and skills, plus whatever else you can think of, what would keep this game from being the "next generation"?

seriously, can anyone tell me why it wouldnt be? i know its not fantacy like all the other big MMOs, but it is different from the pack in many ways.

now, the point of discribing all that was to point out that having something revolutionary is possible, and there is no reason it cant happen. i just think that MMO players are constantly disapointed because of 1 fact: no game will be what they picture in thier heads. due to either design flaws, techno limitations, and different visions of what a game should be, MMO players will never be truely happy with any game, there will always be something to complain about or something that someone does not like which another person does.

soooo many bad reviews on this site of kept me from buying MMOs. im a blizzard fanboi myself. i own ever single blizzard game and expandtion, i love thier products and have never been let down, even though i have my own opinions on alot of things i would do differently. with that stated, i would also like to say im open minded about all games, i want to play the best game. if (unlikely) EQ2 is better than WoW, i will definitly buy it. one thing i really like about EQ2 is the voices for all NPCs. i think this is revolutionary right there. i mean come on, name ONE thing youve seen in MMOs or any game that is as big a step forward as that? the amount im immersion that will bring to the game will be huge!

in conclusion, i didnt mean for my post to get so long. and it is probably writen poorly with my thoughts all mixed around, that may be due to writing this at 4am. here is my list of things that would be in my perfect MMO:

lagless world. crisp beautiful and original graphics. balanced, fast, and fun PvP. great loot and economy system with money sinks and the right amount of influx of items. voices for all NPCs. smart, unique, unpredicatble monsters to kill with good AI who sneek attack you and seem like they have a reason for standing out in hte middle of the open hillside waiting to be slaughered. amazing dynamic quest system that has HUGE variety. this includes unique rewards, unique quests that you can only get by luck, change, circumstance, reputation, world events, or just a daily quest unique to that time and NPC. plus much much more

also, id love to see NPCs doing things, hundereds of things. i want them to feel alive. i wanna see them walk around and chat with eachother, give hugs and kisses to thier kids, argue, haggle, shop, wander, play, work, and show emotions. i want the women and children to run in fear when orcs invade town looking for PvP kills, while the men of the town grab thier swords to defend thier families with the PCs.

im done now. someone please take the time to read this and tell me what you think of my thoughts and opinions, i find it interesting to have them critiqued.

bsherlock · July 2004

The game is so unoriginal it hurts.

All games that are coming out are exactly the same, with a different story and set of graphics and items. yeas there may be less bugs, yes there may be more loot, better AI, different things to kill. But when you get down to the bones you are still hitting something with stuff over and over and over again.

This genre is slowly being strangled by games companies who are associating MMORPGs with mindless repetative killing.

And dont give crap about quest systems or crafting, this is in every other MMORPG out there more or less.

It is about time a company decided on a way to play the game and a way to level that involves actually roleplaying a character and being a part of a world, rather than being a killer or a crafter, or a hybrid of both who cant do either very well.

MUAHAHAHAHAHA

Beldaro · July 2004

So what constitutes a mmorpg? Where to draw the line? And why are muds so boring all of a sudden? ^^

Anyhoo, im waiting for Peter Molyneux to start his team on a mmorpg, could be very interesting to see what Lionhead would create due to the fact they have rewritten the history of gaming so many times before

Things that would make it a 2:nd generation game would be; Players acting the jobs that npcs usually hold, like real roleplayers being shopkeepers and getting exp for the work. A really dynamic world where the seasons change and what the dood said earlier about craters staying after you drop that meteor ^^. Also wildlife changing depending on the players harvesting, creatures And wood/flower/herbs. AND SOME FRIGGIN PHYSICS IN THE CHARACTERS MOVEMENT AND ACTIONS! not just boobs bouncing

And, the most important thing which is really a step back to old-skool. Unconsensual pvp in dungeons and outdoor playingfields with heavy heavy penalties for murderers. Not forgetting the chance of hurting fellow team-members with accidental friendly-fire. And no, unconsensual pvp does not haveto mean PK's sitting outside the gates of town 24/7... we're talking permadeath penalties atleast.

Its the only way of making it a realistic world.

And the level "grind" haveto be there too, otherwise i wouldnt call it a mmorpg hehe. Though grinding doesnt haveto mean killing the same mob over and over. Perhaps a system with different kinds of exp that switch with the seasons in-game? So you are forced to seek out new hunting-grounds? just a thought...

neschria · July 2004

I agree with the first couple of points on your list, Rentantilus, but after that, you have some points that I couldn't possibly disagree with more.

Personally, I actually like PvE games. There are PvP games out there that I could play if I wanted to. But I don't, and I am unlikely to switch back to PvP. I played UO pre-Renaissance, and did my fair share of avenging, but I'd rather work with my guildmates on a difficult NPC encounter than go hunting down people. People are more predictable than PvP advocates seem to think, and they never have unfair tricks up their sleeves that you have to overcome. Call me a Carebear, but I'd rather fight a hard NPC that requires a little thought than a person who thinks that ambush is a real surprise. After the first 3 times, it isn't.

Not all quests in games are of the pointless kill/deliver sort-- EverQuest, for example, has a number of drawn-out storyline quests, not the least of which are epic weapons, which are quests that many people STILL do, despite the resulting reward being quite dated at this point. Why do they do them? Because it gives them a sense of accomplishment to have worked through a long and difficult quest.

Asheron's Call 2 had very, very few NPCs, and we all see how well THAT idea worked. It worked so well that the devs over there are talking about revamping towns and adding NPCs and consignment vendors. NPCs serve a purpose other than just taking up pixels on your screen. They flesh out a world. When you don't flesh out the world for people, most players log in, scratch their heads, walk around for a while, and go play something else that has a world that makes sense.

I don't like the idea of everything being player-made. For the kind of game you are suggesting, it does make sense. I will give you that. But for the kind of game that I would want to play, a PvE game with quests and NPCs, dropped loot makes sense. It is a major motivating factor in getting people out into those remote and dangerous parts of the world, and it is one of the things that makes people work together.

I used to be out looking for "something new" and looking for great innovation in newer MMORPGs, but at this point, I would settle for the same old thing actually done WELL. That's worth $15 a month to me.

~*~
neschria

JBO1 · July 2004

I'm a WoW fan so before anyone says I hate it, I don't. Games like WoW are not going to be earth shattering for a very long time. Lets face facts most MMORPG's use SOE as their standard and they are still using the same old formula that they used in EQ. Believe me I know I played SWG for a year and I left when they couldn't even fix a defunct combat system before releasing an expansion pack to boost sales.

So the question is...Why go to a game like WoW, if it is just going to use this base? Because if all goes well, WoW will try fix all the little problems that we all have complaints about in every other game we have played. They sincerly want to do this...well...to be honest...I'll believe it when I play it. BUT, if they pull it of they have completed the first step that I think most gamers are looking for.

Revolutionary?? Well I think in the way that they will try to break the mold in weak combat system, quests, storyline, ect. I really liked what I have read so far from some of you, great ideas and content...but realistically, they won't happen till someone fixes the origional problems that we all have had with past games first. Revolutionary is going to be in baby steps starting with this. Is WoW going to do it? EQ2? Guild Wars? No, I doubt it, but I'm sure that they all will play their parts in it. I do hope though that games like WoW fix some of the repetative problems that were pointed out in the origonal post, so I can start enjoying MMORPG's again. But no matter what game you love or want to play, just remember, "Rome wasn't built in a day." ::::02::

Cyan8313 · July 2004

One more thing that would make a mmo's better would be to add a built in voice server. Imagine you actually talking to someone instead of typing... Sure the 56K'ers would not be able to play it but honestly who uses 56K in this day and age ? You would have to get a good frikking mic etc but if the option was there ppl would. And the voices would fade out depending on how far away they are and instead of tell's you would call someone on their "cell" or whatever within the context of the game.

A playermade and entierly playerbased economy woks if made correctly, sure some basic stuff needs to be avalible in the start of the game. But all you need is a good transport and offline selling system, for example SWG's bazaar albeit lacking in features it got the right idea.

Some people will always want that lvl grind and they have tons of games to chose from and prob always will. But I would like to see a game that doesn't have the lvl grind where a noob could kill a vet if his own skill/tactical planning/twitch was better.

And another important thing (I think) is to remove the numbers. You can have a grafical bar for stats or define them with weak, avreage, strong, superhuman etc. It ties into making player progression invisible as a previous poster saied.

Wish for example has npc's going around poking around in their shops, going round the town etc. And it has a half free skill system, you get "xp" (you don't see any numbers) for every hit of your sword or spell (maybe it's based on damage I don't know) and then the skill lvl's up. It also have skill degradation and you can lock a few skills so they dont degrade and if you beat on a monster after a while you don't get "xp" for it anymore (but if the skill degrades you can regain that skill beating the monster again..). It's a pretty nice change from the old lvl up chose wich skill's to increase system but wheather it will work out or not is anyone's guess.

C

Beldaro · July 2004

Originally posted by Cyan8313

And it has a half free skill system, you get "xp" (you don't see any numbers) for every hit of your sword or spell (maybe it's based on damage I don't know) and then the skill lvl's up. It also have skill degradation and you can lock a few skills so they dont degrade and if you beat on a monster after a while you don't get "xp" for it anymore (but if the skill degrades you can regain that skill beating the monster again..). It's a pretty nice change from the old lvl up chose wich skill's to increase system but wheather it will work out or not is anyone's guess.

C

Thats UO

and it rocked... but theres still a grind you know, no difference really except you can grind here and there instead, gives some change when youre trying to level your magic resist instead of parrying (can you say 'DEMON!'?

)

Genjing · July 2004

Anyone who thinks that every mmorpg in development is the same old thing, or simply an upgrade of the established needs to do more research.

Face of Mankind and Tabula Rasa. Yes they may not be the most heavily hyped games around, but i definitely think they have a chance of finally breaking the mold. I'm lazy, so i'll let someone else describe them.

Tabula Rasa

"Tabula Rasa was initially just a working title - a way of codifying our design goals," Garriott said as I sat down in the Austin, Texas conference room of NCSoft, Tabula Rasa's publisher. "We needed to wipe the slate clean - go back to the drawing board and figure what exactly made MMOs fun and what made them, well, not." In order to do that, Long and the design deliberately took a backwards, almost "deconstructionist" approach to developing the title. Rather than begin with an idea and a fiction to support, they instead decided to pull games apart into deliberate mechanics and figure out what made them work.

"It turns out that designing a game that's not derivative of anything is a lot harder than it sounds." Long said. Still, the team persevered, listing the elements that made a game enjoyable regardless of where it came from. In the end, the team pulled ideas and gameplay mechanics from sources as diverse as the original Ultima Online to the hottest console fighting game around - Soul Calibur II. The list is quite long and while many of them seem obvious - sharing the game experience with friends, being the center of attention, feeling like a hero saving the world -- the trick would be to combine them together, eliminate the annoying parts and do it in a world with thousands of real people without alienating any of them.

http://pc.gamespy.com/pc/tabula-rasa/512085p1.html?fromint=1

Face of Mankind

Marko Dieckmann: Face of Mankind is a massively multiplayer online role-playing game (MMORPG) within a persistent world. Thousands of players throughout the world can compete in this realistic and futuristic world of the 24th century.

It combines an epic story-driven mission system over years with a complex economic system that can also affect the story deeply. Face of Mankind is built on dreams, dreams of players to create something new. It is the dream to really implement thousands of players into an epic storyline, filled with suspending campaigns. We merged these dreams together to create Face of Mankind.
http://rpgvault.ign.com/articles/364/364282p1.html

Ok the Face of Mankind one isn't so great but just let me add that there arn't any "mobs", and that missions and combat is all PC's... and there are no skills or classes. The only skill is your ability to aim and shoot, or your intelligence and personality. These two games appeal to different sides of mmorpg gaming... and if they live up to promises, then the next generation is right here.

88ruby88 · July 2004

I think reveloutionary would be original quests Like: break into the orc camp kill the guards go inside and kill the orc leader and take his (insert really cool name for a sword here) get out out and throw the sword into the pit of no return or they could use the sword win the war against our camp. Like a bunch of unoriginal quests tossed together to make an original quest

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