i find myself unable to really enjoy mmo games anymore because i always have in the back of my mind the fact that years of hard work could be made worthless by those in charge.
i find myself unable to really enjoy mmo games anymore because i always have in the back of my mind the fact that years of hard work could be made worthless by those in charge.
The first problem I see here is that you considered it hard work. When a game becomes work I usually just quit. I have one job and really dont want to work another one and not get paid. This isnt a flame on you. I think that a lot of people perceive MMO games as work.
The problem isnt always the player but the way the game is designed. Grinding and other boring repetitious content is not enjoyable. The end result of all of this monotony is people feel screwed when whatever they did all of this for changes or becomes obsolete.
Most MMO's do not reward a player for skill or knowledge of the game. Instead they reward players for how much time and patience they put in to very dull activities. This genre of games really needs someone to step up and take a chance on developing something new that will break the current trend of cookie cutter boredom. Make a game that is actually fun and doesnt feel like work. Sadly its just a dream ATM.
I find among my gaming friends many are still extremely angry at SOE and LA over the NGE and feel offended, embittered, rejected, dishonored, abandoned, under-valued, unheard, etc even after leaving the game. I am surprised at my own attitude at SOE even after 2 whole years, almost like a disdain of SOE outright. I’ve refused to play or try out any other SOE games since. The amount of time that my friends and I put into SWG represented real time taken out of our busy lives that was just scrapped and undervalued to hell from the NGE. We always talk about the good old days in SWG and the player city we had. We’ve all gone our separate ways for the most part after the NGE and play other mmorpg’s. To some extent every now and then we play the same mmorpg, however never on the same scale and depth as in the Pre-NGE of SWG. We are all working professionals and have advanced educational degrees. Most of us have families and kids, but the one thing we relish is playing online together to relax. I find that we are all still very upset at SOE and to me it’s kind of amusing to see grown adults retaining this after such length of time.
I know that we're all mainly upset at SOE/ LA over the disruption of our social interaction with one another that the game provided. SWG provided the environment and fun factor link that we all enjoyed. Games like WoW, DAoC, Eve-Online doesn't appeal to all of us as a group.
My question is, since you have left SWG, how did you and your friends deal with anger and resentment, etc. towards SOE / LA over the Combat Upgrade and the NGE?
No i play EQ2 and have a much better game on my hands than SG ever was..LA/SOE messed up but to carry on some deluded vendetta over a GAME is a bit silly.
Dont play SOE games becuase you dont like the GAME not company by all means but boycott a company over something that happened years ago is a little sad.
i find myself unable to really enjoy mmo games anymore because i always have in the back of my mind the fact that years of hard work could be made worthless by those in charge.
In truth you never "own" your hard work as you put it..PC software is just a licence for you to use it so they can do whatever they want to it (not just talking SWG here) so its time to let go of your fears and go for it
Pre-NGE SWG brings back great memories. When NGE "sucker punched" the SWG community, my guild flipped. We were all disappointed that LA/SOE would do this to everyone, in an attempt to persuade NGE from being implemented we bombarded the forums as did everyone else. After seeing the communities response on the forums we all thought NGE would never go through, unfortunately it was wrong for us to assume. LA/SOE made us all feel unwanted, stepped-on, and brushed a side for the now mindless FPS called SWG. So our guild of 2 years left to WoW, leaving behind all of our achievements and friends that stayed behind. I still have anger towards SOE (not so much LA due to my SW nerdiness) and have been on the search for a mmo that had the versatility and complexity that SWG once had. RIP SWG...
Sorry but your thinking is soooo .. arghs So you are saying that the people who fought for example in the independence war were what ? maggots? immature? - they doings were hurting the britains quite a bit no longer was there a nice large colony working for england. Ohh their doings have hurt soo many other ppl it must have been very bad. They only thought about themself and how they could improve the future - their thinking was really immature. Sorry but either you or history is wrong. And you know what i somehow trust history. Ofc you will say that i cant compare our case with the independence war - thats mostly right. Its the basic thinking that is similar. If their is something wrong in the world, dont just cry about it. Do something. Tell it others. Become one of many. Then you can change what is wrong. And yes history proves it - often you have to be willing break something to create something better. This process is a walk on the edge. You have to use the proper actions. Or you will be worse than the bad you want to change. That is the point were it gets subjective. If you think my actions are too drastic than i can live with that. But i honestly cant see where it is too drastic to help pushing a bad service out of business.
Did I say you could do nothing? No. Did I say to not act like a little baby and wish for the destruction of people's lifes over something as stupid as a video game? You better believe it. If it were something more serious like SoE was destroying rain forests to make their video games, or advocating the destruction of the human races or some nation or some such, then yes, I could see the desire to see people lose their jobs and such, but because they eliminated VOLUNTARY fun? Get real and get over it, it is and was just a bloody game.
So you agree that it is going in the same direction. Nice
And you are also saying that it is up to you to decide what is worth standing up for and what not. Well WRONG.
you can decide that for you - but for you alone.
Other ppl might think different about it.
At least you didnt say again that it is immature to stand up for the personal conviction. As long as we agree on that i am fine with it. I respect your opnion that you think i am too extreme. And as long you dont look down on my opinion or action i am also fine with that.
By the way it seems you misunderstood me. I am not angry about a video game. I am angry about how the human "me" was being treated by a company. Ofc i stopped doing business with that company. But everytime i rub it in again. I show that customers are NOT brainless buying machines and i also show that angry customers can be a pain in the ass for companys.
So my simple message is - treat your customers well and you have loyal buyers - treat them bad and you will have a crowd of people against you. So the more i tell others not to do business with SOE (and so helping in the downfall of a company) the more the companys learn not to treat their customers badly. Yes maybe it is a fight against wind mills - and my action will change nothing. But you know what ...... worth a shot :P
i find myself unable to really enjoy mmo games anymore because i always have in the back of my mind the fact that years of hard work could be made worthless by those in charge.
In truth you never "own" your hard work as you put it..PC software is just a licence for you to use it so they can do whatever they want to it (not just talking SWG here) so its time to let go of your fears and go for it
he's not talking about the software he is talking about a developed character in the MMO World. Yes there is software that i don't own myself but what i develop with the char is (and should be) MY and is of different worth then the underlying software. Because i give you right atm no one cares about it doesn't seem that is right to do so. Time to realize this !. Time to change the law !
If its the same then please explain me the phenomenon of offers like "services of developing a character to level x " costs real money. Tho i am not supporting this but i ll give you an objective example of "how much is something" worth you and others refuse to accept.
$OE developed NGE propably with license for Visual C++ from Microsoft. Does it mean NGE is property of Microsoft ? LMAO
-----MY-TERMS-OF-USE-------------------------------------------------- $OE - eternal enemy of online gaming -We finally WON !!!! 2011 $OE accepted that they have been fired 2005 by the playerbase and closed down ridiculous NGE !!
"There was suppression of speech and all kinds of things between disturbing and fascistic." Raph Koster (parted $OE)
i find myself unable to really enjoy mmo games anymore because i always have in the back of my mind the fact that years of hard work could be made worthless by those in charge.
I think you are looking at this in the wrong state of mind for one. This is a game and should be fun and enjoyed not thought of as work. Sure the time you have invested may be lost but then think of a real bad movie you went to and think that there is 2 hours you just lost as well.
When it comes to a MMO you almost have to think of it as a ride. Enjoy what you can then if you do not like ... avoid that developer.
Great thing about this site is you can see all the good thoughts and bad about any game out there.
I do agree that SWG really went down hill after the NGE. I tried to go back ... twice. But the game I liked and enjoyed is no more. So you live you learn and you move on to the next great game... or the next over hyped one ... LOL
i find myself unable to really enjoy mmo games anymore because i always have in the back of my mind the fact that years of hard work could be made worthless by those in charge.
I agree. The CUNGE ruined any trust for MMO developers for me. I view them as the enemy now, even in the game I play.
SOE did great harm for the industry because they broke the unwritten rule, not once, but TWICE, in making sudden, radical changes that invalidated everyone's characters and progress...
I find among my gaming friends many are still extremely angry at SOE and LA over the NGE and feel offended, embittered, rejected, dishonored, abandoned, under-valued, unheard, etc even after leaving the game. I am surprised at my own attitude at SOE even after 2 whole years, almost like a disdain of SOE outright. I’ve refused to play or try out any other SOE games since. The amount of time that my friends and I put into SWG represented real time taken out of our busy lives that was just scrapped and undervalued to hell from the NGE. We always talk about the good old days in SWG and the player city we had. We’ve all gone our separate ways for the most part after the NGE and play other mmorpg’s. To some extent every now and then we play the same mmorpg, however never on the same scale and depth as in the Pre-NGE of SWG. We are all working professionals and have advanced educational degrees. Most of us have families and kids, but the one thing we relish is playing online together to relax. I find that we are all still very upset at SOE and to me it’s kind of amusing to see grown adults retaining this after such length of time.
I know that we're all mainly upset at SOE/ LA over the disruption of our social interaction with one another that the game provided. SWG provided the environment and fun factor link that we all enjoyed. Games like WoW, DAoC, Eve-Online doesn't appeal to all of us as a group.
My question is, since you have left SWG, how did you and your friends deal with anger and resentment, etc. towards SOE / LA over the Combat Upgrade and the NGE?
No i play EQ2 and have a much better game on my hands than SG ever was..LA/SOE messed up but to carry on some deluded vendetta over a GAME is a bit silly.
Dont play SOE games becuase you dont like the GAME not company by all means but boycott a company over something that happened years ago is a little sad.
SOE is a BAD company, and the industry will be better off when they are no longer a part of it.
i find myself unable to really enjoy mmo games anymore because i always have in the back of my mind the fact that years of hard work could be made worthless by those in charge.
In truth you never "own" your hard work as you put it..PC software is just a licence for you to use it so they can do whatever they want to it (not just talking SWG here) so its time to let go of your fears and go for it
And can elect not to give them my money. That's the part of the equation that SOE forgot. They seemed to assume that the players would either take it in the pants and continue playing, or they'd leave but be replaced by the 8 million they thought were going to flood them with love and money.
Of course they completely forgot to make a playable game...
So you agree that it is going in the same direction. Nice And you are also saying that it is up to you to decide what is worth standing up for and what not. Well WRONG. you can decide that for you - but for you alone. Other ppl might think different about it. At least you didnt say again that it is immature to stand up for the personal conviction. As long as we agree on that i am fine with it. I respect your opnion that you think i am too extreme. And as long you dont look down on my opinion or action i am also fine with that. By the way it seems you misunderstood me. I am not angry about a video game. I am angry about how the human "me" was being treated by a company. Ofc i stopped doing business with that company. But everytime i rub it in again. I show that customers are NOT brainless buying machines and i also show that angry customers can be a pain in the ass for companys. So my simple message is - treat your customers well and you have loyal buyers - treat them bad and you will have a crowd of people against you. So the more i tell others not to do business with SOE (and so helping in the downfall of a company) the more the companys learn not to treat their customers badly. Yes maybe it is a fight against wind mills - and my action will change nothing. But you know what ...... worth a shot :P
I can agree with not buying the products, I can agree with the telling of others what happened. Both of those are valid and reasonable responses to the situation. My issues come in where people begin to will ill will on those who are happy in other games run by those companies who have limited to no complaints with the company (my gaming with SoE has always been fine).
Do I condone what they did with SWG? Hell no, IMO, it was one of the best sandbox games out there, where you could truly create a character of your imagination and desires. Do I agree with the way some people treat it? No, I can't say that I do.
But to hold on to this level of anger after what? 2 years? Has to be plain unhealthy, especially over a game.
Constantly I see people come into this forum and put down the SWG Vets. Telling them thats its just a game and to get over it. Wich I think is kind of rude. Everyone knows full well that this is called the Refugee for a reason. If folks dont want to see or read these kinds of posts, then just simply dont come into this Forum.
Then I see the Vets defending themselves by comparing the game to things like Wars, and actual human suffering. Wich I personally think is too much. The two dont even come close in comparison and really shouldnt even be mentioned in the same text IMHO.
So Im going to try and use a different comparison that is less traumatic so that maybe the QQers could possible (hopefully) Understand.
So lets compare SWG to say maybe the NFL (National Football League) here in the US. In the grand scheme of things, Football is just a game. But yet many people enjoy the game to the point that its more than just a game. Its thier hobby and thier past time.* People pay out alot of money on tickets and merchandise in support of thier hobby even though its just a game...
Now imagine that the NFL got NGE'd. So instead of a full contact sport (game) they changed it suddenly to Flag Football. Still the same Stadiums, same Players, and the same teams, but the rules drasticly changed. Can you imagine how upset the fans would be? They'd be pissed right? And probably be talking about it for years to come. Who would want to be the one to walk up to a group of disgruntled Oakland Raiders fans and tell them to QQ and to get over it, its just a game?
Now I could go on and on with this example. I could compare the people who pre-paid for a year of SWG just before the NGE with NFL fans who just bought season tickets right before the change, and how upset the fans would be about it, ect ect, but I dont think I have to. I think everyone atleast kind of gets the point.
So even though SWG is a video game and not a full contact sport, or instead of pissing off literally millions of die hard fans its only half a million or so, it all boils down to the love of the game. Wether it be Virtual or on Astro Turf, people wont like it, and take it personally when you destroy thier past time*.
Apache_, I think that was a great analogy. It really puts it into perspective for people on both sides of the issue. My brother and brother-in-law are big patriots fans and are probably going ape-sh*t as I speak while actively watching the game. I'm not a big football fan myself, I like watching but I don't go Jack-in-the-shinning crazy when there's a big play. But I have been known to exude a range of similar emotion when I played swg during preCU. I have one criticism though. It's "past time" not pass time" :P.
We have every right to be angry with SOE. And from some of the posters here, its obvious they didnt live through the horror like we did. I think most that are dissenters shouldnt comment at all here if they didnt play SWG from launch till November 2005. "Changing the game for a better profit" statements completely miss the point...
1. The expansion - Let us never forget that SOE sold us an expansion that was a huge lie. The expansion's features were all lies. We were mislead into believing there were features and items in the game that would benefit our pre-NGE toons.
SOE listed on every website the expansion's promises. The creature handlers all would buy the expansion because there was a necklace that would allow them to train higher lvl pets. This item was mentioned by the devs on SWG forums as well several times. SOE did this knowing full well that creature handlers wouldnt even exist soon.
2. The post-CU lies to keep us playing - SOE lied repeatedly to keep us playing and paying. They knew the NGE was coming yet lied about every chance they got. Many of us pre-cu Jedi Knights were concerned about when the Jedi Knight trials and beyond would be coming back (SOE disabled them after CU). SOE repeatedly told us that the development of the knight trials was being worked on. At one point, SOE even said it was done and was just waiting on approval by LucasArts.
Several long-suffering professions were promised major revamps. Some professions had literally been broken since launch. SOE even went so far as to let developers tease the players by implementing 2 major profession revamps a few weeks before the NGE would remove those very same professions later.
3. Revamping is a no-no - I dont care about how corporations behave outside of MMO's. In this world you simply dont change the basic mechanics of an MMO ever. MMO's arent simple games or toys. They are investments in time and money for the player. The rules are based on trust...simply put, you pay money and work on your toon...the developer guarantees the rules of the game stay the same. Only one other MMO developer was foolish enough to violate this rule but at least they were smart enough to give the players classic servers (DAoC)
Now those who posted in support of SOE with silly statements, do you see how wrong you are now ? SOE's actions went well beyond mere corporate sleazeball tactics. How would you feel if you played a profession where half the special attacks didnt work, yet kept paying your monthly fee because SOE promised fixes soon ? How would you feel if you bought an expansion for $30 only to have SOE announce 2 days later that in less than 2 weeks your profession wouldnt even exist anymore ? And finally, how would you feel if you hung around waiting for your endgame to be put back into the game, only to find out all that hard work making jedi would be thrown out.
SOE's actions were disgusting but they arent the whole story on why many of us despise them to this day....
Star Wars is more than a movie to many of us. Its a fantasy dream world we desire to be in. From that day in 1977 at the tender age of 8 when I saw Star Wars I was hooked. I bought the toys, I had posters and blankets of Star Wars in my bedroom. It changed my life.
Star Wars Galaxies was a chance for us to live and breathe in that world. It was a dream come true. And when this virtual reality game turned out to be halfway decent, we were destined to spend our nights and weekends there for many many years. SOE robbed us of that.
I am a vet as well. I may not have played through CU/NGE, but I still did play the OLD SWG which I did enjoy. I left due to some guild oriented issues that ruined the experience for me.
I'm not telling anyone to go out and accept what SoE did, it sucks what they did. I will fully support that it sucks. What I can't accept is people who wish for the fun I find in another SoE game that has absolutely NOTHING to do with SWG other than it is made and published by the same company, to be ruined, simply because the game they played was ripped out from under them.
Tell your friends to not trust SoE, tell them what happened in SWG. Spout it on any forums you so wish, but for the love of fuzzy green apples, lay off of the wishing for a company to fail simply because YOU got screwed. I don't care if you hate SoE to your grave. Think it stupid, yes, tell you not to? No.
I had nothing what so ever to do with the SWG fiasco, but the way some of you talk, my fun should be ruined because SoE doesn't deserve to be in existance, and that my friends is bullshit. Yes, they fucked up SWG, but they have made EQ2 3x the game it was at launch. It is stable, relatively bug free and oh my, fun even. But to some of you, I'm not entitled to that fun because of something that happened two bloody years ago?
Yes, you got screwed and it is your right to be angry with them, but damn it, stop wishing hell on the rest of us because you can't get over a damn game.
Constantly I see people come into this forum and put down the SWG Vets. Telling them thats its just a game and to get over it. Wich I think is kind of rude. Everyone knows full well that this is called the Refugee for a reason. If folks dont want to see or read these kinds of posts, then just simply dont come into this Forum. Then I see the Vets defending themselves by comparing the game to things like Wars, and actual human suffering. Wich I personally think is too much. The two dont even come close in comparison and really shouldnt even be mentioned in the same text IMHO. So Im going to try and use a different comparison that is less traumatic so that maybe the QQers could possible (hopefully) Understand. So lets compare SWG to say maybe the NFL (National Football League) here in the US. In the grand scheme of things, Football is just a game. But yet many people enjoy the game to the point that its more than just a game. Its thier hobby and thier past time.* People pay out alot of money on tickets and merchandise in support of thier hobby even though its just a game... Now imagine that the NFL got NGE'd. So instead of a full contact sport (game) they changed it suddenly to Flag Football. Still the same Stadiums, same Players, and the same teams, but the rules drasticly changed. Can you imagine how upset the fans would be? They'd be pissed right? And probably be talking about it for years to come. Who would want to be the one to walk up to a group of disgruntled Oakland Raiders fans and tell them to QQ and to get over it, its just a game? Now I could go on and on with this example. I could compare the people who pre-paid for a year of SWG just before the NGE with NFL fans who just bought season tickets right before the change, and how upset the fans would be about it, ect ect, but I dont think I have to. I think everyone atleast kind of gets the point. So even though SWG is a video game and not a full contact sport, or instead of pissing off literally millions of die hard fans its only half a million or so, it all boils down to the love of the game. Wether it be Virtual or on Astro Turf, people wont like it, and take it personally when you destroy thier past time*. All the QQing in the world wont change it Have a good day folks *Edited for correction
They robbed me of my hobby. A hobby I paid them for years to develope, a hobby they promised to develope for as long as I and the other practicioners of this hobby paid them.
Instead they took our money and spent them on ways to take away our hobby, while telling us to keep paying because they were dedicated to our hobby.
Now my hobby is gone, nowhere to be found within SOE, and nowhere to be found in the MMO world.
Am I angry? Yes. Should I be angry? Yes. Will I forget that they took my money to remove my hobby? Hell no. Will I forgive? Not a chance in hell.
What did SOE do to me? They robbed me of my hobby. A hobby I paid them for years to develope, a hobby they promised to develope for as long as I and the other practicioners of this hobby paid them. Instead they took our money and spent them on ways to take away our hobby, while telling us to keep paying because they were dedicated to our hobby. Now my hobby is gone, nowhere to be found within SOE, and nowhere to be found in the MMO world. Am I angry? Yes. Should I be angry? Yes. Will I forget that they took my money to remove my hobby? Hell no. Will I forgive? Not a chance in hell. They stole my hobby.
I can see that you didn't read the TOS that states the game is theirs, you don't own the game or any items, classes etc and that they can do anything they want at any time. (It's the big thing with the ACCEPT or DECLINE options, like most i presume you didn't read it and click ACCEPT)
I advice you to read it next time, thanks.
"Don't hold breath about another KOTOR game coming from Bioware" - Chris Preistly
"Bioware is more intrested in pursueing development of it's own Intellectual properties"
Originally posted by outlaw101 Originally posted by wolfmann What did SOE do to me? They robbed me of my hobby. A hobby I paid them for years to develope, a hobby they promised to develope for as long as I and the other practicioners of this hobby paid them. Instead they took our money and spent them on ways to take away our hobby, while telling us to keep paying because they were dedicated to our hobby. Now my hobby is gone, nowhere to be found within SOE, and nowhere to be found in the MMO world. Am I angry? Yes. Should I be angry? Yes. Will I forget that they took my money to remove my hobby? Hell no. Will I forgive? Not a chance in hell. They stole my hobby.
I can see that you didn't read the TOS that states the game is theirs, you don't own the game or any items, classes etc and that they can do anything they want at any time. (It's the big thing with the ACCEPT or DECLINE options, like most i presume you didn't read it and click ACCEPT)
I advice you to read it next time, thanks.
While this is to true to some degree. There are some contracts that can legally become void if there's suspicion of consumer fraud. That's the whole reason they refunded the ToOW money. Because they knew they couldn't get away with it lawfully, EVEN THOUGH the box states "Experience may change during game play" I do hope that at some point in the futre this changes though, because consumers should be protected from things like the NGE happening. Whether you like to believe it or not, consumers do have some ownership of the game, no matter how minimal, after all we do pay the box and the monthly fee.
What did SOE do to me? They robbed me of my hobby. A hobby I paid them for years to develope, a hobby they promised to develope for as long as I and the other practicioners of this hobby paid them. Instead they took our money and spent them on ways to take away our hobby, while telling us to keep paying because they were dedicated to our hobby. Now my hobby is gone, nowhere to be found within SOE, and nowhere to be found in the MMO world. Am I angry? Yes. Should I be angry? Yes. Will I forget that they took my money to remove my hobby? Hell no. Will I forgive? Not a chance in hell. They stole my hobby.
I can see that you didn't read the TOS that states the game is theirs, you don't own the game or any items, classes etc and that they can do anything they want at any time. (It's the big thing with the ACCEPT or DECLINE options, like most i presume you didn't read it and click ACCEPT)
I advice you to read it next time, thanks.
I advise you to learn about the cardinal rule of MMO's...NEVER change the core mechanics of a MMO. Minor changes are okay, expected, and what the EULA refers to. But taking a mmorpg with classic mmorpg combat and turning it into a hybrid FPS violates everything.
1. It violates the cardinal rule of MMO's
2. It violates trust between developer and gamer
3. It violated the law as seen when SOE offered a refund for the expansion.
I prepaid for 1 year of swg game time 2 months before the expansion came out. I had 10 months of money stolen from me. I didnt pay for a piece of garbage FPS game, I bought a classic MMO game and it was taken from me. Furthermore, SOE tried to steal another $30 from me with that lie called an expansion.
SOE can rot in hell. I dearly hope they completely fail and go bankrupt. And anyone who pays for any SOE game is sending a message that its okay to act this way.
Folks, its time to think beyond your own selfish egos. Just because you didnt get screwed over by SOE and think EQ2 is a decent game doesnt mean you should reward SOE and pay them. Because one day it might end up happening to you and guess what, you will deserve any suffering you get. Just remember, you were warned and you supported this immoral and unethical sleazbag company when they screw your game over too
I've had it happen before, it will happen again. Never to the extreme of NGE, I'll admit, but I've been through game changes that have made games unplayable and you know what I did? I rolled with it. They've made major changes within the Tradeskill system that I disagree with, major game altering changes, I just found other aspects of the game I liked more and played.
I play games to enjoy my time in them, nothing more, nothing less. Should they go through a revamp tomorrow with EQ2 that I disagree with, I'll move on. Won't be the first time, won't be the last time I do that. It is their game and they have a right to do with it what they think is in their best interests.
That doesn't mean I have to agree with the changes they make or even like them or even play the game after they are made. That is a personal decision to be made at the point of change. Personally, I hate what they did and the loss of trust is deserved and I do keep what they did in the back of my head as I had some good friends who played SWG when it all happened and know that it could happen to EQ2 as well and if it does, so what? I've enjoyed the time I played the game and I'll move on. Pretty simple really. Will I be angry for a bit? Sure. Will I vent for a bit? Sure. Will I wish for their company, who did what was their legal right to do, to fail? Nope.
Comments
i find myself unable to really enjoy mmo games anymore because i always have in the back of my mind the fact that years of hard work could be made worthless by those in charge.
The first problem I see here is that you considered it hard work. When a game becomes work I usually just quit. I have one job and really dont want to work another one and not get paid. This isnt a flame on you. I think that a lot of people perceive MMO games as work.
The problem isnt always the player but the way the game is designed. Grinding and other boring repetitious content is not enjoyable. The end result of all of this monotony is people feel screwed when whatever they did all of this for changes or becomes obsolete.
Most MMO's do not reward a player for skill or knowledge of the game. Instead they reward players for how much time and patience they put in to very dull activities. This genre of games really needs someone to step up and take a chance on developing something new that will break the current trend of cookie cutter boredom. Make a game that is actually fun and doesnt feel like work. Sadly its just a dream ATM.
Dont play SOE games becuase you dont like the GAME not company by all means but boycott a company over something that happened years ago is a little sad.
In truth you never "own" your hard work as you put it..PC software is just a licence for you to use it so they can do whatever they want to it (not just talking SWG here) so its time to let go of your fears and go for it
Pre-NGE SWG brings back great memories. When NGE "sucker punched" the SWG community, my guild flipped. We were all disappointed that LA/SOE would do this to everyone, in an attempt to persuade NGE from being implemented we bombarded the forums as did everyone else. After seeing the communities response on the forums we all thought NGE would never go through, unfortunately it was wrong for us to assume. LA/SOE made us all feel unwanted, stepped-on, and brushed a side for the now mindless FPS called SWG. So our guild of 2 years left to WoW, leaving behind all of our achievements and friends that stayed behind. I still have anger towards SOE (not so much LA due to my SW nerdiness) and have been on the search for a mmo that had the versatility and complexity that SWG once had. RIP SWG...
I have to say LA sold its soul for a pound of lemons many years ago bud..think about it when was the last good game made by LA?
Did I say you could do nothing? No. Did I say to not act like a little baby and wish for the destruction of people's lifes over something as stupid as a video game? You better believe it. If it were something more serious like SoE was destroying rain forests to make their video games, or advocating the destruction of the human races or some nation or some such, then yes, I could see the desire to see people lose their jobs and such, but because they eliminated VOLUNTARY fun? Get real and get over it, it is and was just a bloody game.
So you agree that it is going in the same direction. Nice
And you are also saying that it is up to you to decide what is worth standing up for and what not. Well WRONG.
you can decide that for you - but for you alone.
Other ppl might think different about it.
At least you didnt say again that it is immature to stand up for the personal conviction. As long as we agree on that i am fine with it. I respect your opnion that you think i am too extreme. And as long you dont look down on my opinion or action i am also fine with that.
By the way it seems you misunderstood me. I am not angry about a video game. I am angry about how the human "me" was being treated by a company. Ofc i stopped doing business with that company. But everytime i rub it in again. I show that customers are NOT brainless buying machines and i also show that angry customers can be a pain in the ass for companys.
So my simple message is - treat your customers well and you have loyal buyers - treat them bad and you will have a crowd of people against you. So the more i tell others not to do business with SOE (and so helping in the downfall of a company) the more the companys learn not to treat their customers badly. Yes maybe it is a fight against wind mills - and my action will change nothing. But you know what ...... worth a shot :P
In truth you never "own" your hard work as you put it..PC software is just a licence for you to use it so they can do whatever they want to it (not just talking SWG here) so its time to let go of your fears and go for it
he's not talking about the software he is talking about a developed character in the MMO World. Yes there is software that i don't own myself but what i develop with the char is (and should be) MY and is of different worth then the underlying software. Because i give you right atm no one cares about it doesn't seem that is right to do so. Time to realize this !. Time to change the law !
If its the same then please explain me the phenomenon of offers like "services of developing a character to level x " costs real money. Tho i am not supporting this but i ll give you an objective example of "how much is something" worth you and others refuse to accept.
$OE developed NGE propably with license for Visual C++ from Microsoft. Does it mean NGE is property of Microsoft ? LMAO
-----MY-TERMS-OF-USE--------------------------------------------------
$OE - eternal enemy of online gaming
-We finally WON !!!! 2011 $OE accepted that they have been fired 2005 by the playerbase and closed down ridiculous NGE !!
"There was suppression of speech and all kinds of things between disturbing and fascistic." Raph Koster (parted $OE)
When it comes to a MMO you almost have to think of it as a ride. Enjoy what you can then if you do not like ... avoid that developer.
Great thing about this site is you can see all the good thoughts and bad about any game out there.
I do agree that SWG really went down hill after the NGE. I tried to go back ... twice. But the game I liked and enjoyed is no more. So you live you learn and you move on to the next great game... or the next over hyped one ... LOL
I agree. The CUNGE ruined any trust for MMO developers for me. I view them as the enemy now, even in the game I play.
SOE did great harm for the industry because they broke the unwritten rule, not once, but TWICE, in making sudden, radical changes that invalidated everyone's characters and progress...
Dont play SOE games becuase you dont like the GAME not company by all means but boycott a company over something that happened years ago is a little sad.
SOE is a BAD company, and the industry will be better off when they are no longer a part of it.
They should be boycotted.
In truth you never "own" your hard work as you put it..PC software is just a licence for you to use it so they can do whatever they want to it (not just talking SWG here) so its time to let go of your fears and go for it
And can elect not to give them my money. That's the part of the equation that SOE forgot. They seemed to assume that the players would either take it in the pants and continue playing, or they'd leave but be replaced by the 8 million they thought were going to flood them with love and money.
Of course they completely forgot to make a playable game...
Details, details.
I went out and got myself addicted to illegal narcotics.
Oh, and I read a book or two...
That Guild Wars 2 login screen knocked up my wife. Must be the second coming!
Do I condone what they did with SWG? Hell no, IMO, it was one of the best sandbox games out there, where you could truly create a character of your imagination and desires. Do I agree with the way some people treat it? No, I can't say that I do.
But to hold on to this level of anger after what? 2 years? Has to be plain unhealthy, especially over a game.
Constantly I see people come into this forum and put down the SWG Vets. Telling them thats its just a game and to get over it. Wich I think is kind of rude. Everyone knows full well that this is called the Refugee for a reason. If folks dont want to see or read these kinds of posts, then just simply dont come into this Forum.
Then I see the Vets defending themselves by comparing the game to things like Wars, and actual human suffering. Wich I personally think is too much. The two dont even come close in comparison and really shouldnt even be mentioned in the same text IMHO.
So Im going to try and use a different comparison that is less traumatic so that maybe the QQers could possible (hopefully) Understand.
So lets compare SWG to say maybe the NFL (National Football League) here in the US. In the grand scheme of things, Football is just a game. But yet many people enjoy the game to the point that its more than just a game. Its thier hobby and thier past time.* People pay out alot of money on tickets and merchandise in support of thier hobby even though its just a game...
Now imagine that the NFL got NGE'd. So instead of a full contact sport (game) they changed it suddenly to Flag Football. Still the same Stadiums, same Players, and the same teams, but the rules drasticly changed. Can you imagine how upset the fans would be? They'd be pissed right? And probably be talking about it for years to come. Who would want to be the one to walk up to a group of disgruntled Oakland Raiders fans and tell them to QQ and to get over it, its just a game?
Now I could go on and on with this example. I could compare the people who pre-paid for a year of SWG just before the NGE with NFL fans who just bought season tickets right before the change, and how upset the fans would be about it, ect ect, but I dont think I have to. I think everyone atleast kind of gets the point.
So even though SWG is a video game and not a full contact sport, or instead of pissing off literally millions of die hard fans its only half a million or so, it all boils down to the love of the game. Wether it be Virtual or on Astro Turf, people wont like it, and take it personally when you destroy thier past time*.
All the QQing in the world wont change it
Have a good day folks
*Edited for correction
Apache_, I think that was a great analogy. It really puts it into perspective for people on both sides of the issue. My brother and brother-in-law are big patriots fans and are probably going ape-sh*t as I speak while actively watching the game. I'm not a big football fan myself, I like watching but I don't go Jack-in-the-shinning crazy when there's a big play. But I have been known to exude a range of similar emotion when I played swg during preCU. I have one criticism though. It's "past time" not pass time" :P.
We have every right to be angry with SOE. And from some of the posters here, its obvious they didnt live through the horror like we did. I think most that are dissenters shouldnt comment at all here if they didnt play SWG from launch till November 2005. "Changing the game for a better profit" statements completely miss the point...
1. The expansion - Let us never forget that SOE sold us an expansion that was a huge lie. The expansion's features were all lies. We were mislead into believing there were features and items in the game that would benefit our pre-NGE toons.
SOE listed on every website the expansion's promises. The creature handlers all would buy the expansion because there was a necklace that would allow them to train higher lvl pets. This item was mentioned by the devs on SWG forums as well several times. SOE did this knowing full well that creature handlers wouldnt even exist soon.
2. The post-CU lies to keep us playing - SOE lied repeatedly to keep us playing and paying. They knew the NGE was coming yet lied about every chance they got. Many of us pre-cu Jedi Knights were concerned about when the Jedi Knight trials and beyond would be coming back (SOE disabled them after CU). SOE repeatedly told us that the development of the knight trials was being worked on. At one point, SOE even said it was done and was just waiting on approval by LucasArts.
Several long-suffering professions were promised major revamps. Some professions had literally been broken since launch. SOE even went so far as to let developers tease the players by implementing 2 major profession revamps a few weeks before the NGE would remove those very same professions later.
3. Revamping is a no-no - I dont care about how corporations behave outside of MMO's. In this world you simply dont change the basic mechanics of an MMO ever. MMO's arent simple games or toys. They are investments in time and money for the player. The rules are based on trust...simply put, you pay money and work on your toon...the developer guarantees the rules of the game stay the same. Only one other MMO developer was foolish enough to violate this rule but at least they were smart enough to give the players classic servers (DAoC)
Now those who posted in support of SOE with silly statements, do you see how wrong you are now ? SOE's actions went well beyond mere corporate sleazeball tactics. How would you feel if you played a profession where half the special attacks didnt work, yet kept paying your monthly fee because SOE promised fixes soon ? How would you feel if you bought an expansion for $30 only to have SOE announce 2 days later that in less than 2 weeks your profession wouldnt even exist anymore ? And finally, how would you feel if you hung around waiting for your endgame to be put back into the game, only to find out all that hard work making jedi would be thrown out.
SOE's actions were disgusting but they arent the whole story on why many of us despise them to this day....
Star Wars is more than a movie to many of us. Its a fantasy dream world we desire to be in. From that day in 1977 at the tender age of 8 when I saw Star Wars I was hooked. I bought the toys, I had posters and blankets of Star Wars in my bedroom. It changed my life.
Star Wars Galaxies was a chance for us to live and breathe in that world. It was a dream come true. And when this virtual reality game turned out to be halfway decent, we were destined to spend our nights and weekends there for many many years. SOE robbed us of that.
I am a vet as well. I may not have played through CU/NGE, but I still did play the OLD SWG which I did enjoy. I left due to some guild oriented issues that ruined the experience for me.
I'm not telling anyone to go out and accept what SoE did, it sucks what they did. I will fully support that it sucks. What I can't accept is people who wish for the fun I find in another SoE game that has absolutely NOTHING to do with SWG other than it is made and published by the same company, to be ruined, simply because the game they played was ripped out from under them.
Tell your friends to not trust SoE, tell them what happened in SWG. Spout it on any forums you so wish, but for the love of fuzzy green apples, lay off of the wishing for a company to fail simply because YOU got screwed. I don't care if you hate SoE to your grave. Think it stupid, yes, tell you not to? No.
I had nothing what so ever to do with the SWG fiasco, but the way some of you talk, my fun should be ruined because SoE doesn't deserve to be in existance, and that my friends is bullshit. Yes, they fucked up SWG, but they have made EQ2 3x the game it was at launch. It is stable, relatively bug free and oh my, fun even. But to some of you, I'm not entitled to that fun because of something that happened two bloody years ago?
Yes, you got screwed and it is your right to be angry with them, but damn it, stop wishing hell on the rest of us because you can't get over a damn game.
Well Done... Well Done...
What did SOE do to me?
They robbed me of my hobby. A hobby I paid them for years to develope, a hobby they promised to develope for as long as I and the other practicioners of this hobby paid them.
Instead they took our money and spent them on ways to take away our hobby, while telling us to keep paying because they were dedicated to our hobby.
Now my hobby is gone, nowhere to be found within SOE, and nowhere to be found in the MMO world.
Am I angry? Yes. Should I be angry? Yes. Will I forget that they took my money to remove my hobby? Hell no. Will I forgive? Not a chance in hell.
They stole my hobby.
I can see that you didn't read the TOS that states the game is theirs, you don't own the game or any items, classes etc and that they can do anything they want at any time. (It's the big thing with the ACCEPT or DECLINE options, like most i presume you didn't read it and click ACCEPT)
I advice you to read it next time, thanks.
"Don't hold breath about another KOTOR game coming from Bioware" - Chris Preistly
"Bioware is more intrested in pursueing development of it's own Intellectual properties"
- James Henly
I advice you to read it next time, thanks.
While this is to true to some degree. There are some contracts that can legally become void if there's suspicion of consumer fraud. That's the whole reason they refunded the ToOW money. Because they knew they couldn't get away with it lawfully, EVEN THOUGH the box states "Experience may change during game play" I do hope that at some point in the futre this changes though, because consumers should be protected from things like the NGE happening. Whether you like to believe it or not, consumers do have some ownership of the game, no matter how minimal, after all we do pay the box and the monthly fee.
I can see that you didn't read the TOS that states the game is theirs, you don't own the game or any items, classes etc and that they can do anything they want at any time. (It's the big thing with the ACCEPT or DECLINE options, like most i presume you didn't read it and click ACCEPT)
I advice you to read it next time, thanks.
I advise you to learn about the cardinal rule of MMO's...NEVER change the core mechanics of a MMO. Minor changes are okay, expected, and what the EULA refers to. But taking a mmorpg with classic mmorpg combat and turning it into a hybrid FPS violates everything.
1. It violates the cardinal rule of MMO's
2. It violates trust between developer and gamer
3. It violated the law as seen when SOE offered a refund for the expansion.
I prepaid for 1 year of swg game time 2 months before the expansion came out. I had 10 months of money stolen from me. I didnt pay for a piece of garbage FPS game, I bought a classic MMO game and it was taken from me. Furthermore, SOE tried to steal another $30 from me with that lie called an expansion.
SOE can rot in hell. I dearly hope they completely fail and go bankrupt. And anyone who pays for any SOE game is sending a message that its okay to act this way.
Folks, its time to think beyond your own selfish egos. Just because you didnt get screwed over by SOE and think EQ2 is a decent game doesnt mean you should reward SOE and pay them. Because one day it might end up happening to you and guess what, you will deserve any suffering you get. Just remember, you were warned and you supported this immoral and unethical sleazbag company when they screw your game over too
I've had it happen before, it will happen again. Never to the extreme of NGE, I'll admit, but I've been through game changes that have made games unplayable and you know what I did? I rolled with it. They've made major changes within the Tradeskill system that I disagree with, major game altering changes, I just found other aspects of the game I liked more and played.
I play games to enjoy my time in them, nothing more, nothing less. Should they go through a revamp tomorrow with EQ2 that I disagree with, I'll move on. Won't be the first time, won't be the last time I do that. It is their game and they have a right to do with it what they think is in their best interests.
That doesn't mean I have to agree with the changes they make or even like them or even play the game after they are made. That is a personal decision to be made at the point of change. Personally, I hate what they did and the loss of trust is deserved and I do keep what they did in the back of my head as I had some good friends who played SWG when it all happened and know that it could happen to EQ2 as well and if it does, so what? I've enjoyed the time I played the game and I'll move on. Pretty simple really. Will I be angry for a bit? Sure. Will I vent for a bit? Sure. Will I wish for their company, who did what was their legal right to do, to fail? Nope.